Lagosboy,I would be so happy if u can support Islams stand on begging with quotes from the Quoran. Every other thing is understood.
Hmmn,Sharia,
lets start in bits,what is Sharia?
I watched a video of a somalian muslim stoned to death by fellow belivers cos they alleged he committed adultrey or whatever,what say u abt that?Is their acts justified?what shld they have done instead?Methinks killing another man for any reason is wrong
Hope u had a nice Jumah.

usisky:

@ifyalways

i have already clarified your question on the thread where the pics of those stonning somalian fellow. i want u to knw that i have been following d questions u pose, but since it seem as though u are satisfied with the answers given to by the other muslims i chose never to comment. they don't usually like my comments on the major threads, cos it speaks the truth. hope u get contented with my answer.

please i just want u to realise that what those socalled muslim did is un-islamic and has no basis in the Qur'an or islam. the stonning to death of the adulterer and adulteress was added to islam by the corrupted(hadith ans sunna) scholars of islam some centuries after the death of muhammad.
if u look at that law, it is actually of biblical origin. Now lets see Gods' law according to the Qur'an.


[4:15]  Those who commit adultery among your women, you must have four witnesses against them, from among you. If they do bear witness, then you shall keep such women in their homes until they die, or until GOD creates an exit for them.

According to God in the above verses; A woman witnessed by four people in the act of committing adultery on four different occasions, with four different partners, represents a danger to public health. Such a woman is a depository of germs, and a health quarantine protects the society from her. A good example of an exit that saves a quarantined woman is marriage - someone may wish to marry her, and thus protect her and the society.

As u can see, Gods law is always with wisdom. however, when ppl decide to do away with Gods law infavor of laws of men, then there will consequencies. see also the verse below.

[24:2]  The adulteress and the adulterer you shall whip each of them a hundred lashes. Do not be swayed by pity from carrying out GOD's law, if you truly believe in GOD and the Last Day. And let a group of believers witness their penalty.

As u can see from above verse, (4:2) Social pressure, i.e., public witnessing of the penalty, is the basic punishment (see also 5:38). The lashes shall be symbolic, not severe. the essence is to scandalise the parties involved in adultry, i.e is to shame them in public so they may refrain from such act in the future. i am sure no sane person would want to be whipped in public, not especially for adultry.

     Mathematical Proof Supports Quranic Justice

[5:38]  The thief, male or female, you shall mark their hands as a punishment for their crime, and to serve as an example from GOD. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.

The practice of cutting off the thief's hand, as decreed by the false Muslims, is a satanic practice without Quranic basis. Due to the special importance of this example, God has provided mathematical proof in support of marking the hand of the thief, rather than severing it. Verse (12:31) refers to the women who so admired Joseph that they ``cut'' their hands. Obviously, they did not ``cut off'' their hands; nobody can. The sum of sura and verse numbers are the same for 5:38 and 12:31, i.e., 43. It is also the will and mercy of God that this mathematical relationship conforms with the Quran's 19-based code. Nineteen verses after 12:31, we see the same word (12:50).

(5+38 = 43)  also  (12+31 = 43).  As u can see , the same word for the word "cut  or mark" was used in the two cases, but most translators of the quran have decided to use the the word "cut" for (12:31) while they used the word "cut-off" for (5:38)  due to the influence of their corrupted ancestors. But as u can see God in his mercy proved to us that infact what He meant is the same for both cases through his mathemaitcal coding of the Quran. This phenomenon of coding in the quran parvades the whole of quran.

hope u are satisfied,  thanks.

Wait oooo
U said the the idea of stonning an adulterer to death was added by some Islamic scholars afetr the death of the Prophet PBUH,added to the Quoran or its an unwritten law?
Your quotations,are they from the Bible or Quoran?am kind of confused cos u were using the name GOD as opposed to Allah
So then,like the Bible,most parts/versions of the Quoran have undergone slight changes from the original text during translation?
Please,u can always add to the thread,its open for everyone as long as there wont be NO fight or insults.
U said nothing about Sharia?

@ifya

I am so sorry i havent answered your questin i have been so busy and i dont like to answer in a rush thats why i take my to time write ur response. I just dashed in to NL now and saw usisky comments i beg to disagree with him and inshallah i will write tommorrow morning if you read this before me otherwise you might read my answers inshallah.

ifyalways:

Lagosboy,I would be so happy if u can support Islams stand on begging with quotes from the Quoran. Every other thing is understood.

Hope u had a nice Jumah.

Thanks Ifya i had a wonderful jumah last friday and the sermon was on the importance of good manners in islam and how good manners strenghtens the brotherhood in islam.

Now to your questions on begging. Islam frowns at begging like i said and here is a verse of quran which deals with charity and then explains who the charity is for.

In surah 2 from verse 263 talks about charity but the verse important here is verse 273.

" (Charity is) for Fuqarâ (the poor), who in Allâh's Cause are restricted (from travel), and cannot move about in the land (for trade or work). The one who knows them not, thinks that they are rich because of their modesty. You may know them by their mark, they do not beg of people at all. And whatever you spend in good, surely Allâh knows it well.
Those who spend their wealth (in Allâh's Cause) by night and day, in secret and in public, they shall have their reward with their Lord. On them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve

Islam encourages man to work and here are various verses of the quran to support this.

Q67 v 15
He it is, Who has made the earth subservient to you (i.e. easy for you to walk, to live and to do agriculture on it, etc.), so walk in the path thereof and eat of His provision, and to Him will be the Resurrection.

Here Allah is saying he has given man the means of doing some work and then eat of its provision.

Q62 v 10
Then when the (Jumu'ah) Salât (prayer) is finished, you may disperse through the land, and seek the Bounty of Allâh (by working, etc.), and remember Allâh much, that you may be successful

Here Allah wants us to leave our various work and go for the jumah prayers , immediately after the jumah he his commanding us to go back to their work and not stay back.

Having said all these there are some genuinly poor people who might have to beg due to their circumstances and even the quran talked of this in surah Balad.
Q90 vs 14 -16
And what will make you know the path that is steep?  (It is) Freeing a neck (slave, etc.)
Or giving food in a day of hunger (famine),  To an orphan near of kin. Or to a Miskîn (poor) cleaving to dust (out of misery)

Here Allah is talking of an absolutely poor person which it is encouraged to give alms to. Charity is an important aspect of islam and Zakah is the social security system of islam. Inshallah as our conversation goes further i will explain the principle of zakah and how it established a social security 1350 years ago of which no society till today has been able to achieve.

The begging in Nigeria is a social problem which our political leaders have failed to tackle it is not an islamic problem in the least but the alamjiris just happen to be muslim which is unfortunate.

ifyalways:

lets start in bits,what is Sharia?

[/left]

I watched a video of a somalian muslim stoned to death by fellow belivers cos they alleged he committed adultrey or whatever,what say u abt that?Is their acts justified?what shld they have done instead?Methinks killing another man for any reason is wrong

Now, to be honest i dont know the full details about the incident to make a full specific stance on the issue and i have deliberately avoided posting on the threads as whatever i say will be mere speculation. It is a crime in islam to say or make inputs unto issues you know nothing about. However, what i can do here is explain the islamic position in prinicple and not specific to the inicident.

No 1 - The criminal code in islam can only be carried out in an islamic stae
No 2 - The criminal code in islam can only be carried out when the shariah is being implemented as a whole in that state.
No 3= The criminal code in islam is only applied when the social justice branch of the shariah has been established.

I do not think somalia falls into any of this condition above, arguable maybe on the path to No 1 but not yet.

Now on the issue of adultery and fornication in islam.
Firstly, the stoning to death punishemnt is no where in the quran which is true and you will remember when you asked me earlier on about justified killings in the quran I made no mention of it.
Secondly, we have two primary sources of knowledge in islam the quran and prophetic tradition which was the implementation of the shariah. The stoning of the adulterer was a prophetic tradition carrried out only once by him in his lifetime.

Generally , all the four major jurispudential schools of thought accept the punishement of stoning to death of an adultrer, however there are near impossible or strict conditions attached to it by the qur'an.

1. Four withnesses who witnessed the bannana going inside the hole. Not witnessing kissing or smooching but actual seeing the thing penetrating.

Let me briefly explain that the criminal punishemnt regarding to morals and vices are simply largeley deterrent punishement to prevent public committing of sin which leads to societal decadance. The punishment is not simply to punish the culprit as the best punisher is Allah himself, thats why sins committed under ones roof away from the public is not the business of the islamic state neither can any punishement be meted out to such a person.

Now, it is difficult/impossible for four people altogether to withness the actual infiltration unless it is the the set of a hardcore indecency movie as as we are told indecency on pay tv even is censored and the real infiltration is not shown on screen. If three people report to the state of seeing the actual infiltration and the fourth one waivers all four of them would be lashed 80 lashes for slander and defamation. Such is the gravity of claiming to be a witness.

Also, some scholars have said the only way to prove infiltration is for the couples to stop the ding dong and then the winess pass a string or rope through to confirm if the banana is actually penetrating. Now you see this is laughable and ridiculous as it is impossible to happen so the stoning to death is impossible to implement based on withnesses.

All the conviction in recent years in Nigeria or somalia have never been based on witness but "confession or preganancy"

2. Personal willingful confession and not coersion of the culprit. And also in this case the culprit has to ask for the punishement to be inflicted on him. From the reports we read we were told this guy confessed to the act when he was accosted as his girlfriend was pregnant. He did not just go voluntarily to confess. The punishement of stoning that happened in the time of the prophet as far as i know was never based on witness but the culprit went to confess voluntarily due to the guilt and they asked for the punishement to be carried out on them.

Under this scenerio as well, if the culprit waivers for as little as 5 sec then the punishement will be stopped and not carried out, if he runs away , he his not to be chased but left to Allahs mercy according to the hadith of the prophet PBUH.

Now in this case i saw a hole which has no basis in islam, if it is to prevent the culprit from running away then the punishment is null and void and not from the shariah.

3. The other basis which we have seen convictions on relates to women and pregnancy. some judges have convicted the woman on the basis of pregnancy and i will like to state that according to the 3 major schools of thought this is wrong and also has no foundation in the shariah. The only school which has a branch of it supporting conviction by pregnancy is the Maliki school but all other scholars have proven it to be wrong as it is inustice especially if the man is not convicted and she doesnt confess to the crime and so many other juridical reasons which i cannot start to explain here.

From all of the above , yes stoning to death exists in principle in the shariah for a married couple and not unmarried couples as theris is just 100 lashes with the same conditions. However the implementation of stoning to death is near impossible and largely serves as a deterrent to prevent public immorality like sex on the beach, in the bus stop and all sorts. Adultery in your home with no one seeing you is your personal business between you and your lord and not the business of the state.

I do not think(to the best of my knowledge) the stoning in somalia satisfies all these conditions so i leave their reasons to their conscience and they will explain to Allah on the day of judgement. As for the victim may God forgive him his sins and admit him to paradise

usisky:

@lagosboy
@ifyalways

hi lagosby. the only thing i got to say to is this, "The truth that set men free is for the most part the truth men prefer not to hear"


hi ify. As u can see from lagboys comment, he will never agree with my view. u knw why? cos i chose to go by GOD's words(Qur'an) alone, rather than some man made innovations(hadith, sunna, tafsirs e.t.c). u can even testify yourself, the verses i Qouted are from the Qur'an and not some other source. i'll b waiting for lagboy's response anywaz. cheers!!!!

Honestly, i do not know you and have never engaged in any discussion with you so u saying "he will never agree with my view" is wronng and pre emptive and has the undertone of someone lacking in convicition in his own arguement or beliefs.

I really do not know where to start with you but i will suggest we move out of this thread as i dont want to derail it. I will open a thread to debate with you inshallah and i will prefer a time when we are both live so we could have a real time debate. I will open a theread now inshallah and then give me a time morning or evening.

PLEASE and PLEASE dont let us derail this thread and lets move elswhere.

`

ifyalways:

Wait oooo
U said the the idea of stonning an adulterer to death was added by some Islamic scholars afetr the death of the Prophet PBUH,added to
the Quoran or its an unwritten law?
Your quotations,are they from the Bible or Quoran?am kind of confused cos u were using the name GOD as opposed to Allah
So then,like the Bible,most parts/versions of the Quoran have undergone slight changes from the original text during translation?
Please,u can always add to the thread,its open for everyone as long as there wont be NO fight or insults.
U said nothing about Sharia?

@Ifya

Please i strongly disagree with usisky, stoning to death was never added to the quran after the death of the prophet PBUH. It is not anywhere in the quran so how can what is not there be added. Nothing has ever been added to the quran and nothing will ever be able to be added or taken out. That is its unique miracle and remember what i said about the intellectual miracle of the qur'an.

The quran is unlike the bible and has never been revised or changed due to translations. Almost every translation (apart from Pickthall) has its arabic text beside the translation so as never to lose its mening. People are encouraged to study arabic so as to grasp the deep meaning of the quran. You will see sometimes i quote the text in arabic and then translate.

The quran poses a challenge :

Say: "If the mankind and the jinns were together to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they helped one another." [Qur'an 17:88]

And if you (Arab pagans, Jews, and Christians) are in doubt concerning that which We have sent down (i.e. the Qur'an) to Our slave (Muhammad Peace be upon him ), then produce a surah (chapter) of the like thereof and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides Allah, if you are truthful. [Qur'an 2:23]

And this Qur'an is not such as could ever be produced by other than Allah (Lord of the heavens and the earth), but it is a confirmation of (the revelation) which was before it [i.e. the Taurat (Torah), and the Injeel (Gospel), etc.], and a full explanation of the Book (i.e. laws and orders, etc, decreed for mankind) - wherein there is no doubt from the the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns,and all that exists).

Or do they say: "He (Muhammad(P)) has forged it?" Say: "Bring then a surah (chapter) like unto it, and call upon whomsoever you can, besides Allah, if you are truthful!" [Qur'an 10:37-38]

Or they say, "He (Prophet Muhammad(P)) forged it (the Qur'an)." Say: "Bring you then ten forged surah (chapters) like unto it, and call whomsoever you can, other than Allah (to your help), if you speak the truth!" [Qur'an 11:13]

Or do they say: "He (Muhammad(P)) has forged it (this Qur'an)?" Nay! They believe not! Let them then produce a recital like unto it (the Qur'an) if they are truthful. [Qur'an 52:33-34]

The quran is the most recited book in the world and it is the only book that millions of people memorise it entire 114 chapters and 6,666 verses. No one can come now and revise it or change it. 1.7 Billion muslims recite it everyday in the world so how can someone now change it or revise it.

There is no point being apologetic about ones faith and shy to disclose its punishments. There are harsher punishments in the bible and other cultures and traditional beliefs have svere punishments for various crimes. Usisky talked about the cutting of a thiefs hands as not correct.
See his transaltion:

[5:38]  The thief, male or female, you shall mark their hands as a punishment for their crime, and to serve as an example from GOD. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.

I dont know if he knows a word of arabic because this is the verse in arabic

"wa sariku wa sarikat qatu fa'aqtau aydihuma jaz'a bimaa . . . . . . . ." meaning " The male or female thief cut off (from the wrist joint) their hands as a recompense
for that they committed . . . . . ."

The word qatu means nothing but cut off and doesnt mean mark like he says. That is the general prinicple the implementation is a different issue entirely.

The other mathematical coincidence he has stated is nothing but jargon and the issue of 19 is mere nonsense. (Apologies to Usisky and all for the harsh words but these are the words scholars have used for this issues and i am simply echoing them)

Cutting off a thief's hand cannot be implemented in a society that has not eradicated poverty and established social justice.  There is really no society that can implement it in the world today because unfortunately there is no islamic state and there is no state that has fully integrated Zakah into the economy and as a social seciruty to feed and cater for the unemployed. You cannot cut a thiefs hand for stealing food as he was hungry and it is the responsibility of the state to feed him.

This punishment is a dettrent again in an islamic society and prevents anyone from stealing. Imagine if our politicians hand were cutt off for stealing, this kind of punishment could be implemented on this class of the society(my personal thought) as they are stealing public funds. Public corruption would be reduced by 90% i guarrantee you. But on the general populace without solving unemployment in a society or utilised the zakah cutting of hands of thiefs will be a crime.

There is more to shariah than this two punishment like i have highlighted. It is unfortunate that non muslims and muslims havent helped to understand the shariah and not just the criminal penal code which has stages to its implementation and it is normally the last stage before several of its ruling are applied.

Again i quote the words of Ibn Qayyum

"[size=8pt]Shariah is based on wisdom and acheiving peoples welfare in this life and the afterlife. Shariah is all about justice, mercy, wisdom and good. Thus, any ruling that replaces justice with injustice , mercy with its opposite, comon good with mischief, or wisdom with nonsense, is a ruling that does not belong to the shariah, even if it is claimed to be so according some interpretations." [/size]

And God knows best

v

Hmmn. . .
Lagos boy,I wud have to relax at a later time and go through your replies again before i would be able to ask any more questions.
Thanks for all your replies.May Allah Reward you accordingly.
Bilms,welcome.
Usisky,do u happen by any chance to belong to a particular sect in Islam cos u seem to be the lone wolf  I appreciate your imputs though but like i said,No fights 

ifyalways:

Hmmn. . .
Lagos boy,I wud have to relax at a later time and go through your replies again before i would be able to ask any more questions.
Thanks for all your replies.May Allah Reward you accordingly.
Bilms,welcome.
Usisky,do u happen by any chance to belong to a particular sect in Islam cos u seem to be the lone wolf  I appreciate your imputs though but like i said,No fights 

No worries at all ifya, read them and try to digest them. Ask anything you dont understand as usual before we move on inshallah.

I am sorry for the long boring posts but i had to so you could get a clearer picture thats why I took my time to write it out. 

very civil and dats how we like it.
seek for knowledge rather than make hasty conclusions.

jay bee:

very civil and dats how we like it.
seek for knowledge rather than make hasty conclusions.

Yeah.

Without all the insults , prejudice and provincial views one can actually pick up a fact or two from NL.

@ Usisky
I find your views to be very interesting. Just like Ify asked, are u from a different sect or sumin?

@ Lagosboy
Altho I dont agree with all the views u have in ur posts, U still doing a really good job. Keep 'em coming.

@Lagosboy,If this qatu is to be implemented,who does it?the person whose things got stolen or an Iman?
The prophet did stone someone during his lifetime once,dont u think those Somalians where merely trying to follow in his footsteps 
what is an Islamic state?A state whose governor/ruler is a Muslim,greater part of the populace are muslims or what?
Now does any state in 9ja qualify as an Islamic state?
Omo,that stoning to death for married couples,does it mean Islam does not support Divorce?it wud be a better option to divorce a cheating spouse than to stone to death.IMO ,anyway,with the 4 witness stuff,i guess its gonna be real hard to implement but still we cant rule out the chances of blackmail.
I'm intrested in Fatwa,truth is i used to think its a kind of semi-Jihad  ,correct me if i'm wrong.
Where is Usisky?hope its not fight or flight.

c

lol
Modified.lets go on nyways

ifyalways:

@Lagosboy,If this qatu is to be implemented,who does it?the person whose things got stolen or an Iman?

Thanks ifya for your queries, May God illuminate your heart with his unblemished light.

Now qatu cannot be implemented by the victim neither can it be implemented by the imam. This is a whole governmental issue , the suspect is charged to court and goes through a full judicial process and if convicted of the crime then the state carries out the punishement. Like i said this will forever remain an academic debate not to be caried out unless poverty is eradicated to about 1% and the zakah system is implemented in full, which in turn establishes social justice in the islamic society. The punishment can maybe (personal opinion) be implemented on govt officials who do not need to steal and if they do deserve the punishemnt.

Islamic civilasation has a system of governance ages before any modern system. The islamic system has an execuitive arm which is the Khalifa and his ministers, has a judicial system independent of the khalifa and has a legislative arm which is the shura council.
I have just sumarised this , as we go along i will educate you on the islamic system of governance, most things you see today haven been practised by islam centuries before the decline stated after the spanish inquisition.

d

@Lagosboy,
The prophet did stone someone during his lifetime once,dont u think those Somalians where merely trying to follow in his footsteps 

Like i said i do not know the real scenario of this specific incident but from my lil knowledge, they are not trying to follow his footsteps because, there are conditions attached to the punishement. In the time of the Prophet PBUH the stoning to death was originally a jewish punishemnt in the jewish bible. It did not start with the Prophet PBUH, and the specific scenario it was the lady that walked to the prophet to confess her sins out of her guilt , the prophet PBUH was reluctant but i think she said it three times and that was the law so it had to be implemented. After the death of the woman the Prophet prayed over her dead body and his companions queried him for doing that but He said this woman is noble in the sight of Allah and her sins are already forgiven.

In islam our privacy is important and people are not suppose to spy on others, and go around saying the witnesed adultery. Like i said in the history of islam 1400 years hardly as there ever being stoning due to witness , very few cases recorded if there is any.

In somalia they dug a hole the purpose i do not know but that is not the law of islam.

The convictions of Amina in Nothern Nigeria years back was wrong as well as there were no witness but convicted out of preganancy which i never understood as she wasnt married.

Again i quote the words of Ibn Qayyum
"Shariah is based on wisdom and acheiving peoples welfare in this life and the afterlife. Shariah is all about justice, mercy, wisdom and good. Thus, any ruling that replaces justice with injustice , mercy with its opposite, comon good with mischief, or wisdom with nonsense, is a ruling that does not belong to the shariah, even if it is claimed to be so according some interpretations."

ifyalways:

what is an Islamic state?A state whose governor/ruler is a Muslim,greater part of the populace are muslims or what?
Now does any state in 9ja qualify as an Islamic state?

An islamic state is simple an idependent state governed by the Shariah of God in its totality not penal code for the poor and a different law for the ruler and elite. It is a state that welcomes every muslim and non muslims alike who pay their taxes instead of zakah. A state not defined by race or colour but by the common phrase of "There is no deity except Allah and Muhammad PBUh is his prophet" If you dont mind later on i could inshalah explain in detail the workings of such state and components.

It is not an islamic state simply because it is governed by a muslim.
It is not an islamic state simply becauseit is a muslim majority country.

No state in Nigeria can qualify to be an Islamic state in the real sense of the word as the states are subject to the Federal constitution and so many other issues which time will not permit me to write now.

ifyalways:

Omo,that stoning to death for married couples,does it mean Islam does not support Divorce?it wud be a better option to divorce a cheating spouse than to stone to death.IMO ,anyway,with the 4 witness stuff,i guess its gonna be real hard to implement but still we cant rule out the chances of blackmail.

Islam is not an extreme "idealist" faith, Islam is a practical faith and accepts divorce but doesnt like it abused. A husband can divorce his cheating wife if he wants or could forgive her if he wants.
Q65 v 1
". O Prophet (SAW)! When you divorce women, divorce them at their 'Iddah (prescribed periods), and count (accurately) their 'Iddah (periods[] ). And fear Allâh your Lord (O Muslims), and turn them not out of their (husband's) homes, nor shall they (themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty of some open illegal sexual intercourse. And those are the set limits of Allâh. And whosoever transgresses the set limits of Allâh, then indeed he has wronged himself. You (the one who divorces his wife) know not, it may be that Allâh will afterward bring some new thing to pass (i.e. to return her back to you if that was the first or second divorce).

Even if a husband sees another man on top of his wife , his testimony alone is not sufficient for any punishemnt to be meted out in in islamc state. The best he can do is either divorce or forgive. The husband cannot stone his wife, stoning like i said is only carried out after a judicial process and by the state not an individual.

True sometimes there could be blackmail, and that is why one of the 6 major sins in islam is Slandering a chaste woman of fornication or adultery. Even the wife of the prophet PBUH Aisha RA was once slandered. To prevent blackmail there is a judicial process to cross examin the witness and 9.9 out of ten it will be detected at that stage because four of the statement will be difficult ot be exact as they need to have seen at the same time. The implementation is simple near impossible.

And God knows best

ifyalways:

I'm intrested in Fatwa,truth is i used to think its a kind of semi-Jihad ,correct me if i'm wrong.
Where is Usisky?hope its not fight or flight.

Oh fatwa isnt semi jihad and nothing to do with jihad directly

Fatwa is simply the application of Fiqh and shariah by a jurist to todays affairs. It could be termed a religious edict or decree. It is what you will call judgement in the secular courts or interpretation of the law.

I gues some fatwas have been issued regarding jihad so you thought it could be synoymous i guess

Ify,this may address some of your concerns on Sharia :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/beliefs/sharia_1.shtml

LagosBoy,I'll be expecting you on my Sharia thread

I have been there , spent 10-15 mins typing and i dunno who delets them.

thanks illusion.
Lagos boy,merci.
Tell me about beards now,what does it signify to keep and wear long beards?
Going awol,wud be back on 28th Insha Allah.Have a nice Jumah morrow.

ifyalways:

thanks Lagos illusion.
Lagos boy,merci.
Tell me about beards now,what does it signify to keep and wear long beards?
Going awol,wud be back on 28th Insha Allah.

Hmm growing of beards for men is simply following the tradition of Prophets PBUT all. In shariah ruling classification we have:

Complusory (Wajib)
Recomended (Mandub/Sunnah/mustahab)
Permisible (Halal)
Forbidden (Haraam)
Neutral (Mubah)

The growing of beard falls under the second category as the prophet PBUH said in a hadith grow your beard and trim your moustache to be different from the disbelievers. It will also be interesting to know that growing of the beard was the culture of the time and the sahabas(companinion) had beard even before islam, the mark of differentiaition then was to trim the mousache.

If a man keeps the beard with the intention of loving the Prophet and want to keep it becase he had a beard then he gets a reward for it. If he doesnt keep the beard he his not considered sinful or a lesser muslim because the growing of beard is "Sunnah/Mandub" which if you dont do you are not sinful.

I must confess that some scholars disagree with this view i posted here and term keeping the beard as compulsory. There is no problem at all and yes on some issues we do have difference of opinion amongst scholars which is natural in any human field or social science.

I believe it is not an issue muslims should concentrate on debating in the world of today as there are pressing issues worth muslims attention , like eduacation , spreading the dawah, islamic finance, returning back to the shariah, defending the opressed muslims and so on. If a man keeps it, then fine and if he doesnt it is also fine let him be.

You dont have permission to go AWOL Have a nice holiday though and see you inshallah when u get back

@ Usisky please there is no gain in misleading others and websites you posted are absolutely ridiculous. In fact the quran u quote you do not understand and i posted a thread for us to debate , you refuse to come on there. If you have convictions in what you claim to believe in pls lets do a debate live and not just posting and going away. We can spen 30 mins to 1 hr inshallah and hopefully arrive at some truth.

It is shamefull that you chose not respond to my refutation of your intepretations.

Miracle of 19 has nothing to do with our discussions on this thread neither/

If the min requirement for salvation is the verse you quoted i wonder why we do salah, zakah, ramadhan, hajj. Honestly there loads to talk about, why not just be honourable enough to accept  a debate and not base your arguements from a website.

N.B if you dont accept to debate , then i would sugest to the mod to delete your misleading posts as i am even begining to doubt if you are a muslim or just a mischief maker.

None of the sects in islam hold this view of yours, even the Ahmadi (non muslims)are not this ridiculous.

The quran you quote from , can i ask you how it came to being? Can i ask you how you learnt to recite it?

Q2vs 62 and 2 vs 262 you quoted and interpreted to mean what you mean depicts your wholesome ignorance of the sciences of the quran.

Do you speak arabic?
Who is your teacher?
Are you a qualified islamic scholar?
Are u you a student of knowledge?

Oh just discovered you are disciple of Rashad Khalifa. Its a shame you hve been brainwashed into this how come khalifa holds a view contrary 99.99% of muslims.

Even shia and sunni dont disagree on all these issues you raised niether did the sects of old like the mu'tazila and co.

@Usisky; I hope your usage of demise in this case simply means "Failure" and it is not "Death?"

Why dont you leave Lagosboy and ifyalways alone in their dialogue?

I beg u in the name of God lets move here:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-369835.0.html

If you are sincere delete your posts here and paste them on to the thread i created. Lets leave this thread for ifya and lets carry our disagreement elsewhere.

I will state time and terms on the thread.

N.B the Q54 vs 17 again you misinterpreted this is the arabic " wa yasarna quran li dhikr " - We have made the qur'an easy to remember.

Anyone that understands 1% of arabic knows the word dhikr means remember and not learn.
Learn in arabic is: Ta'alim , hifdh , fahim. No dictionary will translate dhikr as learn except you.
Please there is no point using Khalifas malicious translation of the quran , little doubt why he had insgnificant arab followers because it is their language and he cant trick them.

Confused here

Seems some posts where deleted
@Nwa-uwa,which kain Kweshion be dis,karry ur time ooh.
Lagosboy,still going through ur replies,seems i missed some things,wud be back soon.