₦airaland Forum

bukatyne:
How did the moniker you quoted display hate?

Someone said 'something is wrong': does that translate to hate for the perpetrator?

She even added that God hates homosexuality and loves the homosexual; yet you mention hate.

Can I also accuse you of hating heterosexual people?

Thank goodness you are not a Christian.

The wonder is professing Christians who sees nothing wrong with homosexuality under the guise of feminism.

Great response!

Morningblues:
Christians alway cherry pick what to support and what not to support. The government should criminalize fornication, Adultery,lying and other Things their Bible condemn, They will start crying fire and brimstone. Because lgbt doesn’t concern most of them that why they re hateful

Is it just about Christianity?
Do you think your forebears would have supported all you said before the advent of Christianity? Do you think the African traditional culture would have clapped at young unmarried people brazenly ( not secretly) engaging in those you listed there?

Stop judging Christians based on their opinions when you condemn their opinions about your sexual orientation. It is hypocritical to do that.
You think they should’ve judge and express opinions. Yet you think you have the sole prerogative to judge and express your opinions.
That’s wrong

Morningblues:
You re a cis straight person, telling other people how they were born and weren’t born, you have no right to speak on something you know nothing about nor have you live through, and how do you know the natural order of life, some principles your parent taught you from outdated times. If you point is nobody is born a lesbian is simply ignorant and you should keep it to yourself. Live and let live.

But you have a moral right to condemn and judge straight people over their opinions and sexual orientation but won’t tolerate same over yours?

Isn’t that hypocritical?

pocohantas:
She is cute.

You do a good job taking care of your family. Some of the guys insulting you upandan cannot take care of even chicken for a week.

Private schools are outdoing themselves in fine school uniforms. The days of plain fabrics that could dry in 15 mins are gone. Now they have the one for Mon and Tue. Another for Wed and Thursday. Then sports wear for Friday. Come add am customized socks and cardigan. Ah! Only the brave can train kids now o.

Hahaha!
“...cannot take care of chicken for a week...”

[quote author=tctrills post=105800281]I see you are not getting my exact point. My point is that from those verses, we learn that our Father in Heaven had a similar experience, or do I call it an earthly experience.
The scriptures do not state when or if it was on this very earth but they tell us that he showed his son and Jesus Christ our savior followed. The verses are not teaching that it had to be with John or Mary or Joseph. they only tell us that Christ saw what his father did and followed the example.
Now to your final question, I also asked you to interpret the part where he said the father has given ONLY HIM the right to JUDGE. Should Jesus and God not be doing exactly same specific things including the judgement if your interpretation were right?

From the scripture, it means The father has at some time been a Judge and Christ was shown his example. Christ is simply telling us that his father has experienced the same thing. He did not tell us when or where.
Lastly, it's not my business but I don't think you should speak that way about your wife on social media. I only tell people to meet my wife if they want to see a religious or churchy person.[/quote


My question is, from these verses, can we imply that the father onces suffered and died for sin?
Jess Christmas says, everything he did, he first saw his father do it.
So did the father also suffer and die for the sins of man?


If your question is on what the father had done in a realm we humans will understand, then your explanations here nullifies the point you were trying to make.

But if your question is on something that is a possibility in a realm of God and Christ and not known and revealed to us humans, then we do not know. We can only guess and extrapolate and argue but cannot make much out of it.
But what Jesus did here physically and recorded in history and the scriptures, we can relate with.

So in what realm of existence or reality is your question addressed to?

tctrills:
I see you are not getting my exact point. My point is that from those verses, we learn that our Father in Heaven had a similar experience, or do I call it an earthly experience.
The scriptures do not state when or if it was on this very earth but they tell us that he showed his son and Jesus Christ our savior followed. The verses are not teaching that it had to be with John or Mary or Joseph. they only tell us that Christ saw what his father did and followed the example.
Now to your final question, I also asked you to interpret the part where he said the father has given ONLY HIM the right to JUDGE. Should Jesus and God not be doing exactly same specific things including the judgement if your interpretation were right?

From the scripture, it means The father has at some time been a Judge and Christ was shown his example. Christ is simply telling us that his father has experienced the same thing. He did not tell us when or where.
Lastly, it's not my business but I don't think you should speak that way about your wife on social media. I only tell people to meet my wife if they want to see a religious or churchy person.

Thank you for your points.

My joke on my wife meant she is a better religious person that myself. That has no negative connotation and she knows. There is nothing wrong about being religious. I am religious. I am a church person. I am proud of it. But I just tell my wife she is better than me in that aspect.

I hope this is okay Sir/Ma?

Back to the main issue. We can only interpret scriptures with scriptures. Any other thing not clearly written can only be extrapolated. And those attract varied views

tctrills:
1. Sir with all due respect anyone can claim to have the spirit.
2. The passages of the scripture you are talking about seem to have nothing on our topic of discussion. We both agree that Christ worked in line with the will of the father. No argument.
3. I never said God physically rehearsed ALL minute and micro activity Christ performed here on earth. To help you understand better what I implied, If your father owns a company and runs it, and then allows you to take over after showing you all he did would you be wrong in saying, "19 “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does" This to every educated person never means that you are repeat all minute and micro activities of your father.
We shouldn't argue over plain English.
4. I think you even answered yourself here Or do you have a scriptural basis to show that we have done exactly all that Jesus did literally by quoting the scriptures that said we shall do same kind of work he (Jesus ) did or even greater than what he did. Have we done all those word for word?
This is exactly what I am saying Jesus came and gave us a perfect example we do not follow him by living all his ALL minute and micro activities. So it was with Christ, his father showed him his own life as those verses teach and he followed. I think you have finally answered your own question.
5. I can understand this being too hard for most Christians to comprehend. Most of us really read the scriptures superficially. In fact prior to my posting this on Nairaland most of you never knew of this. It's like the verse was hiding in plain sight.
As you say you have the spirit, you should pray and fast to know if those verses speak the truth.

Hahaha!

I don’t make religious claims at all. I only tell people to meet my wife if they want to see a religious or churchy person. So forget about spirit and no spirit matter Sir/Ma.

I told you all the micro activities of Jesus were scriptural ( baptism by John, “missing “ while coming back from the annual event at young age, discussing with elders at the temple, breaking and eating bread, eating and digesting fish and excreting same, showing his hands to Thomas, crying at the tomb of Lazarus, alabaster perfume broken at his feet, dining with publicans, tax collectors and Zacheus, using spit to heal someone, being chased away by villagers after healing the legion demoniac, chatting with the Samaritan woman by the well etc). Those are real acts, recorded in the Bible ( my scriptural support you asked for). Those are micro activities and many more not recorded.

Do you think God the father DID EXACTLY all those and REHEARSED with Jesus Christ to do same? If your answer is no, what would warrant you to think the passage you quoted literally meant God had also done EVERYTHING Jesus did word for word? Just give me a scriptural backing for your line of thoughts and extrapolation please.

We cannot claim to know everything from the Bible. But we can try and just read the simple messages of the Bible and ask the Holy Spirit to help us.

Like I said, Jesus was a divine human who operated here on earth in obedience to God’s will. God had a template for salvation of men written out before the foundation of the earth. Jesus was always with God and in God from pre-existence and came here to fulfil all God’s work based on the template/will of God.
How he executed it at micro level is between him and God.

He told the Jews in that passage that his father would have healed that man on a sabbath day since he is the God of the sabbath. His father keeps doing good work even on sabbaths so he too will do same. That is just the simple message from your passage.

I also asked you to interpret the part where he said the father has given ONLY HIM the right to JUDGE. Should Jesus and God not be doing exactly same specific things including the judgement if your interpretation were right?

Cheers

tctrills:
Again, I like the way you see it as much as what you say makes sense, it's not like it's based on bible truths it's your personal opinion and we respect it.
Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
This simply means that the father also had an earthly experience. Yeah he could have been baptized but it does not have to be by john.

20. For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does.
This is talking about action not some pattern..

21. For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.
This is so so specific telling us that the very work of resurrection Christ came to perform, the father has earlier done it.
Do you know any scripture that contradicts this. If you have a scripture that says otherwise thend u would believe you.
Remember we can't interpret the scripture to suit a believe. We follow the scripture not the other way round.

“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he anointed me to preach good tidings to the poor: He hath sent me to proclaim release to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised, To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭4:18-19‬ ‭ASV‬‬

All I said came from the scriptures. Jesus simply told the Jewish audience that what he did to the sick man on a sabbath is exactly what his father would have wanted him to do. The passage above summarized what Jesus set out to do. That is his central message according to God’s will. He worked in accordance with the will of God to achieve the central theme. And he delivered perfectly on it. The specifics of how he did his work here on earth on a minute or second basis will not mean God the father took exactly same steps and micro actions as Jesus did, but the central message and work was delivered.

I don’t think you have any biblical support to show that Jesus meant God physically rehearsed ALL minute and micro activity he performed here on earth.

Or do you have a scriptural basis to show that we have done exactly all that Jesus did literally by quoting the scriptures that said we shall do same kind of work he (Jesus ) did or even greater than what he did. Have we done all those word for word?

Offpoint1:
I am done arguing...

Believe what you believe

Pls go and study your Bible

tctrills:
To get you right, you are saying that the father did not show the son his own works and the son did not copy the father's examples. And the scriptures meant to say God planned the atonement.
Now of course I waam not implying that John baptized God the father. But could it be that he also lived and had an earth life experience before the son Jesus Christ. That seems to be more accurate with what those verses say.

Nice explanation but another personal opinion.
I was hoping for someone who wouldn't give a personal opinion but one based on the scriptures.

Interesting view you’ve got there.

So if you think those passages meant that God had done exactly everything Jesus did here on earth, do you think God ate fish with the disciples and digested them as Jesus did and also excreted them out like the divine Jesus when he was in human form?
Do you think God conversed with the Samaritan woman before and showed Jesus how to do same?

Do you think God was taken as a small boy for annual ceremony where he was left behind by Mary and Joseph?

Do you think God visited Zacheus and had dinner?

Do you think the alabaster box was broken at the feet of God before it was for Jesus?

Was God baptized at Jordan by John the Baptist before Jesus followed same footsteps?

You can’t interpret those scriptures that way pls.
Jesus simply had a pattern laid out for him by God the father that had to be followed for the general work.
And that work was done well the way God wanted.
Cheers

Offpoint1:
In all the verses you quoted, do you notice there was a supreme being, a father figure?
There's one whom the other bow to? Jesus isn't that supreme being... The father is.

Can't believe you're quoting me with clear evidence of Jesus not being GOD and still arguing he is at the same time.

Lol!

How I wish you could just read to understand.
You are looking for Jesus saying “I am God”.
You won’t see that. But if you are reading to learn, you would open your mind and understand.

And I am amazed that even after reading all those Bible verses in the Gospels and the Epistles, that was all you could say. Wow!

At least some people argue that they only believe the Gospels and not Paul’s epistles like I cited. Yours is completely off the mark

[quote author=Offpoint1 post=105766226]If you read my previous comments you'll understand I stated Jesus was given authority to do those things, it was God who gave him those authority... Which he himself clearly stated in the Bible.

Jesus had, have no power to do anything without God's authority.. Read your Bible carefully. Once you understand he was given those authority by something greater him, then you'll understand he wasn't God.

No need arguing this, alot of people seems to have comprehension problems.

Please let’s stick to the scriptures.
Read the passages below. Pls don’t let pride deprive you of opportunities to learn.

“[Now] He is the exact likeness of the unseen God [the visible representation of the invisible]; He is the Firstborn of all creation. For it was in Him that all things were created, in heaven and on earth, things seen and things unseen, whether thrones, dominions, rulers, or authorities; all things were created and exist through Him [by His service, intervention] and in and for Him. And He Himself existed before all things, and in Him all things consist (cohere, are held together). [Prov. 8:22-31.] He also is the Head of [His] body, the church; seeing He is the Beginning, the Firstborn from among the dead, so that He alone in everything and in every respect might occupy the chief place [stand first and be preeminent]. For it has pleased [the Father] that all the divine fullness (the sum total of the divine perfection, powers, and attributes) should dwell in Him permanently.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:15-19‬ ‭AMPC‬‬
https://www.bible.com/8/col.1.15-19.ampc

John 10:30, Jesus said, “I and the Father are one.

For blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33).

Very truly I tell you, . . . before Abraham was born, I am!” (John 8:58). The Jews, upon hearing Him, clearly understood that He was claiming preexistence and, more than that, to be Yahweh, the great “I AM” of Exodus 3:14. On this occasion, too, they tried to stone Him for blasphemy.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”“
Vs 14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.”

Thomas” my Lord and my God” (John 20:28)

“His disciples worshipped Him (Matthew 14:33). When He appeared to them after the resurrection, they fell at His feet and worshipped Him (Matthew 28:9).

the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ” (Titus 2:13)

tctrills:
Please I would love your explanationsite of these verses
John 5.19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom.

My question is, from these verses, can we imply that the father onces suffered and died for sin?
Jess Christmas says, everything he did, he first saw his father do it.
So did the father also suffer and die for the sins of man?

The entire message borders on the unity of the God-head and the authority of God the father over Jesus Christ, the son.
It does not mean that God literally did everything verbatim like Jesus did while on earth as a divine person in a human form. I don’t think God ate fish and broke bread like Jesus did with his disciples. Or that God came down to Jordan to be baptized by John.

Rather the totality of the message and work of Christ in the atonement is understood that God had planned it from the foundation of the universe and noted the role Jesus Christ would play.

The verses below indicate some distinct duties of Jesus Christ. God wouldn’t have done that for Jesus to try to do later as Jesus said he alone is assigned to do that.

And the other verse talks about the necessary existence of Jesus. He existed on his own and his existence is not contingent on anything.

“Even the Father judges no one, for He has given all judgment (the last judgment and the whole business of judging) entirely into the hands of the Son,”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22‬ ‭AMPC‬‬

“So that all men may give honor (reverence, homage) to the Son just as they give honor to the Father. [In fact] whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, Who has sent Him.”
John 5:23 AMPC

“For even as the Father has life in Himself and is self-existent, so He has given to the Son to have life in Himself and be self-existent.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:26‬ ‭AMPC‬‬

Thank you

Offpoint1:
Funny how contradicting your reply is.

Wake up from that false belief born out of lack of understanding.

Jesus was never, neither is God. Jesus was only given God authority, it doesn't make him God himself in a literal word.

John 3:16
Explain what you understand by "For GOD so love the world, that HE gave his only begotten SON...

Mark 16:19
Explain what you understand by:... He ascended into heaven and seated by the right hand side of God

Mark 15:34
Explain what you understand by: ....My God, my God why have you forsaken me.

Can explain what does verses mean to me?

Claiming Jesus is God is one of the greatest falsehood in Christianity.

To further clear you up, that Jesus Christ was never God himself.. Kindly read this last verse carefully and tell me what you understand about it.

Matthew 24:36

No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, NOR THE SON, but only the FATHER.

This is a verse clearly showing Jesus is not God himself and each of the verses up were direct words from Jesus mouth.

Stop the false teachings, Jesus was given God authority and never was he God... He never claimed to be even when he was on earth.

Please before you answer, read carefully and take note of all my bolded texts.


Lastly John 10:30 was an expression which most of Christians fail woefully to understand.

If I say "me and father are 1" I'm not in saying that in a literal form, rather an expression to let people know... I share alot of things in common with my father. We are close paddies, we do everything together, he doesn't hide anything from me, I can stand in his place and give/represent whatever authority represents.

This was the expression Jesus used.

Only God had ever forgiven sins.
In the gospels Jesus forgave sins, and the religious leaders said it was sacrilegious.

Only God ought to receive worship, the Gospels account that Jesus was worshipped and he never cautioned or stopped them from worshipping him.

The last of the Gospels John had so much to say about Jesus being same as his father God.

If you don’t mind, the epistles by Paul and Hebrews had a lot to say about Jesus being same with God.

If you don’t like the accounts of the Epistles, you can stick to Matthew, Mark and Luke. But if you like John, a lot was written there too.

Thomas also exclaimed “My Lord and my God” and Jesus did not challenge or correct that.

Thank you.

Offpoint1:
LOL, you guys are quick to term someone who raise a question an atheist, Muslim or unbeliever.
That was how I raised a question in student school and I was given a demon title.

If you failed to figure out your contradictory statement at the 2nd reply, then it's not in my duty to point it out.

This long episode is because you failed to understand or... Let me you subtly don't want to accept the fact the "God" I used in all my statements and biblical verses was referring to "Yahweh"

You've finally answer my question by saying "Jesus is not Yahweh" that's the answer I needed the entire time you were writing epistle.


About the trinity, I smiled reading your reply about me not knowing what it is.

I wouldn't want to drag on that.

To clear your doubts, I believe in God existing... But disagree on so many things Bible scholars taught, wrote, interpret and preach about him.

If everyone had understood God completely, theology schools and seminaries would have been shut down. So don’t stress yourself over the academic knowledge about God.
Have a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ as taught by the scriptures, follow the godly injunctions in the scriptures and love your Neighbour as thyself.

All our emotional and academic doubts will be cleared in time and some may never be cleared.


However do you mind sharing with us some of the things you disagree as taught by Bible scholars? And what you think is okay with scriptural backings?

Thank you.

The entire message borders on the unity of the God-head and the authority of God the father over Jesus Christ, the son.
It does not mean that God literally did everything verbatim like Jesus did while on earth as a divine person in a human form. I don’t think God ate fish and broke bread like Jesus did with his disciples. Or that God came down to Jordan to be baptized by John.

Rather the totality of the message and work of Christ in the atonement is understood that God had planned it from the foundation of the universe and noted the role Jesus Christ would play.

The verses below indicate some distinct duties of Jesus Christ. God wouldn’t have done that for Jesus to try to do later as Jesus said he alone is assigned to do that.

And the other verse talks about the necessary existence of Jesus. He existed on his own and his existence is not contingent on anything.

“Even the Father judges no one, for He has given all judgment (the last judgment and the whole business of judging) entirely into the hands of the Son,”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22‬ ‭AMPC‬‬

“So that all men may give honor (reverence, homage) to the Son just as they give honor to the Father. [In fact] whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, Who has sent Him.”
John 5:23 AMPC

“For even as the Father has life in Himself and is self-existent, so He has given to the Son to have life in Himself and be self-existent.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:26‬ ‭AMPC‬‬

‭‭

Jesus had many disciples following his ministry as his popularity grew. We can talk about the special and more prominent 12 disciples/Apostles but they weren’t the only ones.

John 6:66(KJV)
From that time MANY of his DISCIPLES went back, and walked no more with him.

“As He said these things, MANY believed in Him [trusted, relied on, and ADHERED to Him].”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:30‬ ‭AMPC‬‬


So the disciples weren’t restricted to the 12.
We also saw what Nicodemus and Joseph Arimathea did. They were part of his secret disciples, people who were sympathetic to his teachings even among the prominent Sanhedrin.

“And also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary, called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had been expelled; And Joanna, the wife of Chuza, Herod's household manager; and Susanna; and many others, who ministered to and provided for Him and them out of their property and personal belongings.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭8:2-3‬ ‭AMPC‬‬

Jesus definitely had female disciples. Only a few prominent were mentioned. Mary and Martha aren’t even among the ones mentioned up there and they were very close to him.
I am sure some of the other women he healed like the woman with the issue of blood, the ones he raised their children etc would have been following him from far too... the Bible is silent on that.

Of course the Near East civilization had records that favored men more than women back then.

More support for the claims of the synoptic gospels’ accounts on the historicity of Jesus Christ of Nazareth

24

Arrewa:
Isreal that lost almost all wars they had involved in except a couple.

Isreal that was defeated by the Babylonians and sent on exile, Isreal that was defeated by the Philistines except when under David, Isreal that was defeated by the Romans, burnt their temple and sent on exile. Isreal that was defeated by the British.

And some ignorant christian who had never read any other book outside the Bible as interpreted by his pastor is spewing rubish.

Isreal was created by the UN and sustained by the west - US, UK and france. If the US should withdraw its protection and support of Isreal, the Jewish state would be a sitting duck. What do you think is reason Arab country hate the US, is it not because of its support of Israel?

Black ma sef... So God loves Israel more than blacks? He did not choose Africans but whites? Why? Because Bible told you so?


So if Isreal is God's people, what are you? Devil's people?

The Nigeria Army with highly sophisticated technology and the Fulanis in command can defeat Isreal!!

Inferiority complex had Made Black people underrate themselves so much that we now see white people as superior beings.

All thanks to religion!!

The way religion has beclouded most people's sense of reasoning is quite shocking!!

You appealed to the Bible and history to drive home your point. You will also need to appeal to same authorities on accounts favourable to Israel.

Thank you

Akasammyoka:
Hahahaha, if our revered biblical David can fall victim, who am I?

Lol! Good point. Yes anyone can fall but David isn’t our perfect moral model to follow. We are asked to follow Christ’s examples...

Can we replicate all David did, including his mighty acts in wars, his great love for God, his sacrificial giving for God and his people and finally his moral failures?

If we can’t exactly replicate all, why focus on his moral failures? You know most of the accounts in the Bible were written for us to learn. If not, the not-too-good accounts in the Bible would have been edited to present those people as perfect humans. They aren’t neither are we. So let’s do our best to steer clear of troubles as much as we can.

“Everything that was written in the past was written to teach us...”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭15:4‬ ‭ICB‬‬

Thanks

Akwamkpuruamu:
Actually, the Bible said that stolen bread is sweet. Na so the thing wey de kill dey take de sweet

Thank you.

“Stolen water is sweeter. Stolen food tastes better.” But these people don’t know that everyone dies who goes there. They don’t realize that her guests are deep in the grave.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭9:17-18‬ ‭ICB‬‬

Akasammyoka:
Why is everyone acting like cheating is the only means to hell. When most of you are products of cheating. Without cheating most of u will not have been born. Even the wisest man solomon was a product of cheating

This answer would have been sufficient if the question had been on types of sins committed by humans and sins that lead to hell.
But it is not.
Thank you.

No!

Why would I cheat on my wife?
I didn’t get involved in the university where the pressure was high, neither did I when I lived alone as a bachelor far away from my parents’ influence and control. Why would I now?

So many reasons not to cheat:
It is a sin against God; it leads to moral depravity; it brings guilt that eats one away; it leads to loss of respect before the other cheating partner; it could lead to family issues; one could even lose one’s life in the process; I think it is also a thing of pride for me allowing one who is not my spouse “seduce or defeat me”; cheating comes at a huge cost.

Sex is overly over-rated. Most people who had been married for over 10 years know this. One could be engrossed with so much cares and pressures of this life that one wouldn’t have the urge for sex sometimes.

Besides I think all women are beautiful and have almost same physiological features. Why get carried away trying to check out different women when one is enough?

Psalm 119:37(KJV)
Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity; and quicken thou me in thy way.

““But I made an agreement with my eyes not to look with desire at a girl.”
‭‭Job‬ ‭31:1‬ ‭ICB‬‬