₦airaland Forum

RandomAfricanAm: Request: Can you please unhide my comment again.
Forum Room: It happened again in the same room as before.

Circumstance:
This time I added a fourth part of the five planned then got banned for attempting to edit a previous post right after. Basically if I add a long post and do **anything** at all right after I'm banned.

Thank you

That's quite unfortunate. Try hard to avoid lengthy posts; maybe even divide them into two.

CAMNEWTON4PRES: https://www.nairaland.com/1013080/origin-bantu-peoples-eastern-nigeria/1#15033184

SIr, ODUMCHI can you please unban me? Thank you.
It's urgent dalu

Done.

This interesting topic deserves a second chance at life.

NRI PRIEST: You keep mentioning "Amadiora" but you forgot to understand that the book which Chinua wrote was a work based on the reflect of Igbo traditions and not a comprehensive Nri portrayal. He may have reflected the traditions of other Igbo groups in his books. My point is that just because Achebe metion "Amadiora" doesn't mean Northern Igbo had it. For example,the stories of the "Ibini Ukpabi" reached the northern Igbo but they never had it. If you know any northern group that has "Amadiora" let me know,so,we can nip this in the bud. I know Ogidi like I know Umuoji and Ogidi doesn't have "Amadiora".

"Things Fall Apart" was not based on "Igbo traditions". It was based strictly on Idemili (and by extension, Nri) culture. Chinua Achebe made sure to incorporate the main deities of Idemili (Ogwugwu, Ani, and Idemili) and included Amadiora, which I'm sure he mentioned for a reason.

If I may ask, what's the name of the sky/thunder deity in Idemili?

Antivirus92: then stop bothering urself and stop writting craps in the name of igbo. Just write about ur arochukwu Nri.

See your own.

Antivirus92: i thought that you are wise but ... I just made that statement to ridicule you, you claim that we have diverse culture and origin yet you're trying to know why nri priest rejected your amadiora!

Amadiora isn't mine. According to Chinua Achebe, it's yours. Since none of you have bothered to provide any substantial evidence to dispel that, I'm forced to maintain my belief.

Antivirus92: then all of this ur thread should be deleted and the title be changed to "arochukwu culture" because every thing in it is of arochukwu(ibibio) and not igbo. I will say it again, my anscestors founded the igbo and it's cultures/traditions.

If you had read one of my earlier posts in which I admitted that I was biased in my perspective, you wouldn't have made that statement. It's nearly impossible to make a thread about "Igbo culture" without exhibiting some partiality or bias. The only way to make a truly "Igbo" thread this is to include components of all of the subcultures from Ukwuani to Arochukwu and Nsuka to Ikwere.

Dendada.

Done!

Eze Promoe: [color=crimson]

Ndi n'ekiri isi okwu a:
Eze
Promoe, adaobi123(f),
ifyalways(f),
CAMEROONPRIDE na 1
obia

Gini ka onye Kameruun n'acho ebea[/color]

Elee nke I na-emezi ka o bu Onye Awusa? A si ihe oma di nma. O nwere onye huru ihe oma si na ya achoghi?

Biko, unu gaa chooro nwoke m a oche!

Antivirus92: why are you contradicting urself? Maybe achebe made a mistake. We're not the same people,we have diverse culture and origin so why should we have one god;amadioha/amadiora?. Have ever heard that ijaw and ibibio though in the same ss have one god?

Talk about contradiction!
So it's now that you want to play that "we have diverse cultures and origins" card? Ochi egbuole m wo!

Antivirus92: Yes, i talk about igbo Oraukwu things with pride and as a land lord because that's what i was made to understand. I am an Igbo and my fore-fathers founded the Igbo Idemili and its cultures/traditions.[s] I am not a foreigner from bini like onitsha people or other southern people. I don't really give a damn about the behaviours of you guys, you're on ur own. One thing i will like u guys to know is that we have grown past "this people claim to migrate from here or there" where as it does not reflect in the language and culture of the people in question[/s].

Made a few necessary corrections...

Antivirus92: Nri priest please leave these guys to do their discussion. Their minds are fixed somewhere.

Inyi za ebe a puo ngwangwa!

When it befits you to analyze your position in Igbo affairs as one of shareholders and not one of landlords, then can we make progress. But as for now, things will remain as is.

By the way, I'm still wondering why Nri has refused to answer my question about why Amadiora was mentioned in "Things Fall Apart", even though he claims it didn't exist in the north.

RandomAfricanAm: Helllo,

Issue:
What are best practices for not being hit by the spambot? (post length, post frequency, etc)

Context:
I just started useing this site after lurking for a couple months. I really like the group here and decided to add to the culture section. I am contributing to the "Kongo a kingdom underrated" topic put up by kidstranglehold (see: url below)
I split my contribution up into 5 post but it only lets me post 3, removes the 4th, and bans me from the site for a day.

Summury:
I want to continue contributing but i'm afraid anything I do will result in a mysterious ban. I can't stick to the posting rules setup by the spambot if I don't know what they are. Help

https://www.nairaland.com/1235003/kongo-kingdom...a-underrated-kingdom

The spambot usually targets members who have a history of making multiple/lengthy posts in relatively short period of time. As everything in this world, the spambot isn't perfect. The best way to avoid being targeted is to avoid copying and pasting lengthy chunks of information, and keeping a few minutes in between posts. If you are targeted, simply make a complaint here and I will unban you and reveal your hidden post(s). It's not the most efficient method, but we'll have to manage for the meantime.

NRI PRIEST: Point of correction,mister, we don't know what is Amadioha until recently,post colonial to be exact. Most northern Igbo town worshipped the "ogwugwu" deity. Example "ogwugwu" Omenani of Onicha,"ogwugwu" akpu of Okija. Yes,that famous and powerful shrine in Okija is an "Nri" deity.I can tell you that the whole Northern Igbo(Anambra,Enugu,Anioma parts of Imo and Ebonyi) never worshipped Amadioha nor Ubinu ukpabi. Case closed.

If Amadiora is foreign to Idemili, how come Amadiora existed in Chinua Achebe's "Things Fall Apart" (which is set in Idemili)?

Besides, the word "Amadiora" itself is even northern since southern groups don't say "ora".

NRI PRIEST: Odumchi,onye ka I na akpo "senseless" ? Nwokem,dokwaa onwe gi ka ogwu!

M kwuviere onu, k'o I nuu ihe m si?

Igbo, kee ka unu mere?

Ista abiala o! Eji m aka na unu niile na no n'uzo ula. Onye obula riekwa mmemme Ista nke ofuma.

Ndeewonu.

Fixed again.

Abagworo: There are many Aro settlements in Northern Igboland. Any settlement that starts with "Ndi" is more or less Aro settlement. I believe "Ndi" was an Igbo translation of the Ibibio "Ikot".

I didn't say there weren't.

ChinenyeN: I believe you and I are saying the same thing, with the exception of "chi ukwu". Though it is true that the various culture zones had a understanding of "supreme cosmic force/being", I wouldn't go so far as to say that they recognized it, or realized this understanding in terms of "chi ukwu". In the Ngwa/Ukwa culture zone, for instance, the introduction of the expression "chi ukwu" into our region is 100% credited to the Aro. We never use it as a culture. Our "chi ukwu" is/was Chileke, but we never understood Chileke within the context of "chi ukwu". The traditional concept of Chi is singular and did not incorporate an "ukwu" or complementary "nta" naming convention. Whether it was personal or cosmic, Chi was/is Chi. So we never had "chi ukwu".

If you ask me, the Aro invention of Chukwu was pretty revolutionary for the time-period. I tip my hat off to the Aro ancestors who fostered such a concept and the deity into existence. It really proved to the an effective business asset and even earned itself a notable position in the history of oracular trade. It might as well be the godparent of oracular trade.

The concept of Amadi is not the same throughout Igbo area. I know that for you, in Aro culture, amadi is freeborn. In my culture zone though (this holds true for communities from Mbaise to Echie and I believe Ikwere also), amadi is a social/political elite; an individual with substance and influence. The closest approximation in English would probably be a cross between "bureaucrat" and "nobleman". An amadi's behavior is typically considered "just" (people tend to translate it as "noble" ). At the same time, we also tend to culturally view the amadi as "ruthless". This is because amadi are versed in the norms, customs and laws of the community, and often times culturally play the role of community arbitrators. As arbitrators, they display their "just" side in the way they handle cases and display their "ruthless" side in how they deal with offenders and guilty parties. This is where "Amadiohna" (personification of justice) comes from. It is from this sense of amadi that "Amadiohna" was coined.

We also use amadi in a second sense to refer to a well-aged and respectable man in the community. Often times, we use the expression "okhe amadi" for this sense. Okhe Amadi is to us (the same Ngwa/Echie stretch) as Ichie title is to others.

I can't say how Amadiohna or the concept of amadi (which I'm not sure they actually have) made their way up north, but it would likely have been similar to how "chi ukwu" made its way across Igboland, through oracular trade. Echie oracular trade routed upward into Isu communities. It seems plausible that the displacement of several Isu communities and the establishment of Amadiohna oracular outposts (such as Igwekala) helped diffuse Amadiohna into the region.

I see. I appreciate the richly detailed response. However, it seems as if I am still not through with my investigations on Amadiora. The more we progress, the more intriguing it all sounds.

Perhaps a northern Igbo could help us here.

Odenigbo Aroli: The whole Of Igbo land and neigbhoring tribes used Nri invention and thats what i meant by influence. When you say Aro influence covered the whole of Igboland i want you to identify these influece for me. Is there even anything like Aro culture? The only thing we know about Aro is the story of their human selling and how they invaded unaware towns to kidnap humans and go sell human. Aro flourished during slave trade and soon after its destruction by the british her people migrated into the hinterland,settled and was absorbed by more superior groups like Nri. I have told you that a group called Ukpabi settled in Umuoji in the late 18th century but they were absorbed by the Nri and today they are known as "Umuobia". Please,its an insult to even think of comparing Nri and Aro. Its a sin to do that. Nri culture is prestigious and a noble one. Culturally,what has Aro given to Igboland? ??

Honestly, it escapes me why you continue to speak in such an obnoxious manner that smacks of pure disrespect and ignorance. It seems as if the deeper we go into this conversation, the more you display your inherent lack of understanding and ignorance on anything and everything non-Nri and non-Anambra, especially Aro culture and society.

The sad part is that you can't even differentiate the Aro from the Abam. The Abam (along with their Ohafia and Abiriba neighbors) were responsible for many of the sporadic raids and invasions that took place in northern and southern Igboland. The Aro, on the other hand, were businesspeople who were most interested in establishing commercial relationships and establishing trading centers. Through strategic marriages, business alliances, and of course, the legal and law enforcement traditions upheld by the Ekpe and Okonko institutions, the Aro became the main powerbrokers in the hinterland trade network.

For your information, the British did not destroy Aro. They simply occupied Arochukwu in order to dislodge Ibini Ukpabi (which is still intact, today) and its oligarchy of priests from power. There was never any postcolonial absorption of Aro peoples by anybody, not to talk of distant Nri.

http://books.google.com/books?id=n0lI5c9trSAC&pg=PA125&lpg=PA124&dq=aro+slave+trade&output=html_text

According to the above document, Eze Nri Ewelana placed a "curse" on the Abam (who were inflicting terrible losses in northern Igboland) and subsequently on their Aro friends (who seemed to draw benefits from the Abam raids), making it it no longer an offense to kill Aro and Abam people. I believe this is the reason why the Aro were disliked in Nri lands, and equally why Abam raids were fiercest there. At the same time, that's no excuse for you to act senselessly.

Stranglehold: I still can't post on this forum with KidStranglehold account which is my main account. Can someone help me.

Resolved.

What a refreshingly different thread.

This is how the northern part of Abia generally dresses.

Ojiofor: If I may ask you, what influence does Nri/Eri have on people of old Bende division?Enough of your spremacist propaganda.Funny' we should be grateful for giving us red cap,sorry my father didn't wear them neither did my forefathers and I am not wearing one cos we dont do ur Nze na Ozo stuff so there is ain't nothing to be grateful for.

GBAM. Okwu ebie!

NRI PRIEST: You don't wear a red hat but people from Abia

Odighi. Traditionally, we don't wear red hats in Abia.

ChinenyeN: I see. Thank you for taking the time to expand on what you meant. I appreciate it. I would though like to make some comments on a few of the things you mentioned. I like discussions like this.

1. This is all about perspective. Taking it from a cultural perspective (of which it rightly is), we will see that the concept of a supreme being is not the same as "Chukwu". To really understand this, we have to look at the history behind Chukwu. Looking at the history behind Chukwu shows us that Chukwu is not simply a concept of 'Supreme Cosmic Being', but a religious institution. And history shows us that this institution is not some pan-Igbo thing, but rather it is historically particular to the Aro people. Communities throughout Igbo area and beyond all tell the same tale of Aro's precolonial association with the institution of Chukwu (fully realized as Chukwu Abiama/Obiama). I have yet to come across an instance in which a community, with the historical Chukwu Abiama institution, does not associate it with the Aro. I would still credit Aro (and mainly the missionaries) with the spread of "Chukwu". The little research we have on the subject-matter has shown that there existed no historical "Chukwu" institution, within these respective communities, until the Chukwu Abiama institution. The idea and usage of "Chukwu" among mainstream Igbo though, can be effectively credited to missionaries.

2. My perspective on Amadioha is also along the same lines as Chukwu. That "Amadiora" exists within the northern Igbo culture zone does not make Amadioha a pan-Igbo institution. Just as with Chukwu, Amadioha is historically particular to a people, the Ozuzu of Etche. Until this very day, there exists only two legitimate Amadioha oracles, Amadioha of Ozuzu and Igwekala of Umunnoha (which is an offshoot of Amadioha of Ozuzu). Research into the subject has shown that Amadioha's beginnings and existence is rooted in the slave trade (similar to Chukwu Abiama). For Amadioha to exist as the "Amadiora" institution, in the northern Igbo cultural institution suggests a later adoption of the institution via cultural diffusion (similar to Chukwu Abiama).

So, Odumchi, from the way I understand it, if you examined both topics from a cultural perspective (as would be proper), I see no real reason to believe you said anything particularly incorrect.

You're right. The Delphic "Chukwu Abiama" is intrinsically related to Aro, so therefore "Chukwu" came to be associated with Aro through Aro dealings and Ibini Ukpabi. When we Aro desire to refer to God as an all-knowing prophetic being who, as chief arbitrator of all conflicts, holds all the knowledge in the universe, we call Him "Chukwu". When we choose to describe his more remote and estranged characteristics, we refer to him as "Obasi". What I've realized is that although Chi Ukwu is not exactly an Aro brainchild, in the centuries prior to the missionaries, it was used to refer to the case-settling deity that was believed to reside at Arochukwu.

Let's imagine a scenario. Let's say you and I were farmers who lived in the Ngwa zone sometime in the mid 19th century, and for several years, we have been disputing a particular stretch of land. Now, I then threaten to take our case to "Chukwu" in Arochukwu. Once I mention "Chukwu", you understand that I am making reference to the Aro deity in particular even though our own people's supreme god, Chiokike/Chileke, is also recognized chi ukwu. In other words, in the various culture zones, there are various chi ukwu, but in Aro there is only one Chukwu. I hope you get what I'm trying to say.

And thanks for the clearup on Amadioha. What I'd like to know now are the exact means through which Amadioha and the whole concept of amadi and ohu/oru reached areas of the north that are supposedly under Nri cultural influence.

Rocktation: Hi Odumchi and michellin. I can't reach you guys via pm. I need you both to visit my thread in the mod section, please. Da' alu. thanks.

Kedu ka I mere?
No problem. I'll look at it.