₦airaland Forum

NiyiOmoIyunade:
We seem to always misunderstand each other or get on opposite sides of the facts.

The above was not necessary but no whala, see below

This is from the testing procedure page; I can attach a screenshot if required;


... to investigate this capacity fade, the lithium-ion batteries are being discharged to a state of
charge (SOC) between 5% and 10% (depending on the allowable limits of the BMS), while the
lead-acid batteries are being discharged to a 50% SOC (i.e. 50% of the rated capacity used). The
advanced lead battery is being be cycled between 30% and 80% SOC. These operating ranges
are in line with manufacturers’ recommendations for each technology.

Please quote or reference where you see/saw 85% DoD?

https://batterytestcentre.com.au/batteries/pylontech-us2000b/

JUO:
stay away from any lithium without temperature sensor to avoid fire outbreak or you do 50-70% of the stated capacity. In fact, so many things can go wrong

Li-ion capital yes, I won't be as worried with LFP. Nevertheless it's a good to have.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
RE ITP Cranberra Battery Test Results

I inferred from the reports that the PylonTechs were discharged to ~92-95% DoD over a 3 hour period 3 times daily - so a C3 discharge rate 3X daily.

They were discharging at less than 85% DoD, you can check the live data to verify. They tried to keep the test to the recommended 80% DoD. It's on track to 60% SOH at almost 4.4k cycles. I don't believe it will have 80% capacity left after 6k cycles(aggressive or not).
However I may be wrong Sir.

GeorgeD1:
lolz! bro! edited to include you as one of our prominent, eminent lithium ambassadors!!

Certainly not my intention, no accolades is due Sir. I just hope that you will find that the statement is incorrect. Sharing of facts is actually what all contributors to the topic have been doing. Let's enjoy our backup solutions

Oshomo12:
Oj

Calm down!

Mo gentle o! actually that was "pun intended", it's all good. My hope is that one way or the other readers learnt one or two things in the entire conservation just as I did.

Monlo:
Don't worry,already in talks with @Juo,hopefully when my LiFePO4 batteries got delivered by tomorrow,will hastily put em up for sales here.
Watch out.......
Sun energy rules....

Good one!

GeorgeD1:
brother, nobody is making anybody scared of anything. if you read my posts correctly what i was emphasizing on was the need to
bare all and let the facts be known and i'm happy that cue was taken on by no other eminent personality than niyi.

So those of us that shared our experiences on both battery chemistries were not giving facts abi. Isorite o

cucumbar:
Please, what stock can I buy within the next on month that could yield a 25-30 percent gain by January?

Maybe Intbrew, Guinness or Eti?

ceaser:
As in Pylon?

Speaking of that, there was one of us here (can't recall who) that bought a Nissan Leaf battery and installed it in his solar system. I think he made a you tube video then. Did I miss the follow up updates or there was no such updates?

That will be @essegis the chairman with BYD, Nissan Leaf and cylindrical Lifepo4 cells

JUO:
what is the difference between using two AC charger and two charger controllers in one bank? I know someone who has 4 charge controllers in one bank. @Niyi has more than one charge controller in one bank. Also tell me the difference when you charge with AC and solar at the same time

Bro you are right, one can actually put 10 chargers on a battery bank so long as the bank meets the requirement. You will need 500A charger to charge the 12v 1000AH from low to full in 2hrs not 100A. That's why I thought you made a typo

wilmaria14:
first time to hear servo

Here is a sample of a desktop version
https://www.nairaland.com/390522/solar-energy-complement-fta/798#91626869

JUO:
there are 50A charger, you can use 2pcs and do it in less than 2 hours

Is that a typo

BetaTechnicians:
Does this affect felicity too? There's an installation that I have hardly noticed it being at above 14v, anytime I go by it, I notice battery always sitting at 13.5, maybe once or twice I've seen it increase.
it's lead acid and 24v. Though the load hardly reaches 100w throughout the day and battery has never gone below 12.9 - 12.7.

The workaround was applicable to most axpert and it's clone variants (including felicity) that are used to charge lithium batteries. Yours is behaving that way because it's basically full hence the charger is doing it's job as it's designed for LA charging

onegentleguy:
The likes of PZ and most recently UNILEVER have also had to tour a similar route in recent past.
Guiness could have sought the route of higher repayment period, but the challenge with WC has come with a high running near term debt(unlike say UNILEVER), so management(guiness) had little option in front of them.
The coy still needs cash.

...it is well.

So do you still see Unilever diping further than it already done?

Barezzi:
Don't be too sure

Right edited to cover the other way round, various things could cause the death. The gist there is that our handling/way of use also matters in battery life span so long as we start with getting good cells (which is the most important content). Some battery manufacturers has hard-coded some usage culture in their BMS which is not a bad thing, while the DIY users will have to figure out theirs, that flexibility is what matters most for some users like me.

Dam5reey:
You get what you paid for it's as simple as that

I will prefer to pay a premium for 1 single features in a system which make life easier, than spend less on counterpart without that feature

That's the summary, once you have what meets your requirement then you are good to go. Pure water companies make water in sachet and bottles, some will go for sachet knowing that both contains same content. This won't make the person drinking from sachet die earlier than the one drinking from bottle or vice versa

Well put but I don't think it's helpful continuing this discussion Bro, as this has obviously become an ego thing. It was LA Vs Lifepo4 now Plyontech Vs DIY

Just for the record, if anyone is willing to give me pylontech equivalent of my current DIY Lifepo4 capacity for free I will gladly accept it.

However if someone is giving me the funds to make my choice, I will utilize it on a good Lifepo4 and get about 2x capacity of plyontech, just that it won't be pylontech.

One man's food is another man poison

adrusa:
Very funny. I think you have similar complex with @GeorgeD1. You think because you paid top dollar for some proprietary system, it must be better than the cheaper more open source option! You are very wrong.

Let me tell you what you may be aware of. I have a few network routers in my house; Linksys, TP-Link, Netgear, D-Link and Mikrotik. Aside the Mikrotik, the first thing I did to the other ones was to get rid of the factory firmwares that came with them and flash open source firmwares; DD-WRT, Gargoyle or OpenWRT. Yes, I got rid of the firmware developed with R& financial muscle of big network vendors like Linksys (Cisco and Belkin at various times) and put open source firmware developed by a bunch of small but very talented people working mostly for free.

Same with my expensive Samsung phones. I use open source modification I got from XDA from the likes of Dr.Ketan, an Indian ENT Surgeon. Yes, I abandoned Samsung's R& software for something developed by an hobbyist working at home in his spare time. My major grouse with iPad and iPhones is their ultra-proprietary nature. Some think that they are better, but certainly not in my book. That is why I'm a fan of android phones.

@GeoargeD1 believed that his heavy investment in LeadAcid Batteries makes them better than Lithium, while you think that your investment in PylonTech makes your battery better than ours. That may be true, but it has absolutely nothing to do with all you said above.

My personal experience is that non-proprietary systems tend to be more robust, less restrictive and better maintained than proprietary commercial systems. They also get better support from DIY community. It is the same reason why Linux is a more robust and stable production software than Windows. Of course, one of the first thing I did with my Felicity Lithium was to replace its BMS with ANT BMS. The Felicity BMS looks better and bigger, but I have absolutely no control over it. If I buy PylonTech, I will certainly change its BMS to this "DIY BMS" you disrespect so much because it didn't cost a arm and a leg. Things are not necessarily bad because they are DIY, or cheap, indeed, many times they are better, because they are more open and less restrictive.

GeorgeD1:
nice one niyi. at least we finally begin to see some down to earth details popping up far from the glossy narratives
we been hitherto fed with.
your admissions tally completely with what that rod guy was trying to explain in his website while also mentioning
your battery type - pylontech.
when we lay the facts bare for all to see, discerning peeps are able to make informed decisions without feeling
tricked into venturing into something they thought was all frills and thrills.

I actually think it is you who continue to make people feel lithium is some scary and deceptive thing, on reasons best known to you. If it was not better Niyi will not continue to accumulate(for business reasons or otherwise) and those who use it will not share their experiences (good or bad). It's no brainer that lithium is a superior chemistry to LA any day any time but that still doesn't mean that both chemistries won't appeal to us differently. Why you see experience sharing as being trickish is what beats my imagination, isn't that what this thread is about.

In my actual professional world it's over a decade now that operators are being adviced to deploy IPv6 but up till now IPv4 dominates, the difference however is that the number of networks running IPv6 now compared to a decade ago has increased significantly and it's only a matter of time before IPv4 will eventually be obsolete and relegated.

Ultimately the choice remains with each individual to either deploy the present technology with future relevance in mind or be caught unprepared.

Finally BUA dividends hits my account... Something for the weekend.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
I have reports outside the forum and also a few pages back someone said he had taken out 6kw.

Again the Felicity office in Nigeria say it is a 48v 150Ah battery with ~7.5kwh inside.

It is possible Alaba specs are different as I see ads here and outside too.

So perhaps same external form factoe but different content.

@Adrusa - please did you buy off Felicity direct or open market?

Okay I have seen the post, that was the same post that we discussed about which made me suspect it was 120AH cell. That particular user had his inverter cut off at 48+v was similar to @Adrusa cut off voltage. He was able to get juice of over 110+AH
Aside that, unless the cells are significantly unbalance (BMS will have tripped much earlier if that was the case) over 1kwh more will be a lot to expect at 48.5v of lithium.

However the bold could be the case as well but quite unlikely, and it will still be a goof on the side of felicity either way. Our felicity Lifepo4 battery sellers on this thread can perhaps help us unravel this as well

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Does this mean the people taking out 6kw are doing 100% DoD or the cells are underrated capacity wise per label sticker?

Is there someone who claim to take out 6kw? If there is then the person was at over 95% capacity. However I have seen people on this thread mention about 110 at a voltage around 3v per cell, that was a clear indication it was 120AH as I earlier explained to you. It's normal for new cells to have about 5 to 10AH more than their name plate on first few cycles, it however doesn't remove the reality of the actual capacity.

currentprice:
http://www.nse.com.ng/Financial_NewsDocs/31675_UNILEVER_NIGERIA_PLC%20_QUARTER_3_%20_FINANCIAL_STATEMENT.pdf

This your laughter no pure o

ceaser:
Oh yes. I forgot that part that you have utility. It implies your system more or less serves as a power back up.

As if the utility guys heard you, it's been unavailable in the last 1 week my panels have tried to keep up; for a "non premium" doing 4x of its name plate. More PV is now inevitable

adrusa:
120AH

Thanks for confirming my estimations

NiyiOmoIyunade:
We are still entirely out of phase.....

Ok

adrusa:
I will see what I can do. I could have taken all those pictures the day I installed the BMS because I brought out the entire thing. As I said, it was really well built. I wish I can get a good welder or iron bender to construct such nice cage for my other DIY.

For starters, what was the actual capacity label on the cells??

NiyiOmoIyunade:
It seems we always misunderstand each other's meaning or intentions. Much like the 3 phases of an electrical system are 120° out of phase with each other

I will say no more on this topic.

As regards affording a large battery bank, there is a technique to it where you won't have to donate too many critical organs, one option is to spread the burden/crowdsource your acquisitions and you are already on that path as you retail RE gadgets and tools. Build enough velocity behind that and it becomes easier to take one or two batteries or other gadgets for personal use without feeling the impact too much

Also good deals come up if you keep your nose in the business - one of my pioneer Pylontech customers is relocating, I have been praying hard that he leaves soon so that I can take over his 4 PylonTech batteries and Victron 5kva Multiplus at a good price

Win win for everybody.

Not really actually I understood you big time, let's just say I was hailing you as the chairman and certainly there is always opportunities for awoof, especially the ones that will not run belle
I also plan on adding to my cells as the needs and corresponding funds plus the right opportunity emerge. So ultimately for me the point is that I like to start relatively big with a tight budget and that it at the cost of sacrificing other privileges that I don't consider to be redlinners. Ultimately na win win and all na lithium eventually.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
The more I look into the Pylon BMS workings, the more I am convinced that the manufacturer knows their battery.

The charge and discharge current logic are hardcoded in the BMS such that as the battery fills up it automatically throttles charge current and as you drain the battery towards 80% and beyond it begins to throttle discharge current too - this is inspite of the advertised spec sheet.

The above is normal behaviour, at least for my DIY as well, though I have not observed the trottling below 80% I think your BMS is doing that not because of the components but to allow for close discharge of the cells as the curve is very steep (runs faster) once the capacity is below 80%

They guarantee 6,000 cycles at 80% DoD and with 80% capacity left after those 6,000 cycles. In fact they imply that the electronics and control mechanisms would fail well before the actual battery cells fail.

Yeah 80% is normal capacity left in most lithium batteries after completing their initial cycles, it's actually not unique to plyontech, what I think is unique is the controlled charge and discharge which makes sense to protect the components while for DIY one can just change components at some points in the lifespan of the battery bank.

My batteries sit in a temperature controlled room set for 25°C - while charging at up to 0.5C I can see cell temperatures get to 30°C or slightly higher - charging at 0.3C the temperature sits at 28°C max. The battery is certified for -10°C to 50°C or thereabouts - I needed no soothsayer to tell me to use the lower charge rate that kept the batteries cooler.

Yeah this is typical and I do observe it as well but I think the increasing temperature is due to the connecting terminals, when I place my battery temp sensors on the sides of the cells, the temperature is much lower than that of the connecting terminals so I think the components of connecting the cells is very critical. I personally also prefer to charge at 0.5C max but I don't think those that have small banks will have much leverage especially if they have a BMS that can support it. Someone who has a single pylontech 2000 will be limited to 25A but if I have a 50AH DIY one will be tempted to do above 0.5C often so the sun rays can be maximised

When I complained about one module falling behind, we were yet to install AC in the power room - the troubled module reached 35°C when others were still at 32°C or so - all well within the operating range but for the USD expended for acquisition I was not ready to take any risks.

Most folks would use their batteries at factory defaults happily unaware of the goings on in the battery and this would suffice.

See me now trying to force the BMS to request 500A from Victron inverter and MPPTs meanwhile I had set my max current limit in the Victron GX device at 350A. I just want to have the battery run at full throttle even if I will slow down later. Now sue me

PS: The actual recommended charge voltage range is between 52.5v and 53.2v - there are 15 cells in series per module so 3.5 to 3.55v per cell. The BMS will cut out for overvoltage at 54v so very little headroom for errors or spikes - with this you see how paranoid the BMS is. Battery top balancing will start once any cell reaches about 3.48v

I use 52.5v as charge voltage and plan to go back down to 52v just as soon as the new modules settle in fully. The goal is to cycle between 25% and 98% on a regular basis

You have a monster bank my brother, I do envy you just that there will be deficit of organs if I was to go your route

That said, I really think oversizing battery banks is the best thing to do, I am 25 days into using my current cells and I have only done 2 cycles. I can't imagine how many years this thing will last me if I don't break the system due to my curiosity

adrusa:
Good to hear your experience with PylonTech. However, PylonTech is not "lithium battery", it is a battery system based on lithium chemistry. If you need "esoteric skills" to get information out of your proprietary battery system as you suggested for your PylonTech, that is PylonTech problem, not a lithium battery problem and the manufacturer has failed. I have made a mental note of avoiding PylonTech if it is as bad and as complex as you suggested. I suggest you rip out the PylonTech BMS and replace it with something you will have absolute control over. That is what I did for my Felicity lithium; I replaced its BMS with ANT BMS.

The thing is that pylontech BMS has incorporated quite some interesting restrictions, perhaps for their 10 to 15 years life expectation to be guaranteed hence they don't charge more than 3.4+v and low max charge current as well. As you've rightly said, the problem is not the battery but the BMS. A typical lithium will do 1C comfortably without issues, though my system is not designed for 1C(560A) else would have personally tried it out, some chemistries even do more than that. The heat however can be as a result of other factors such as cell connection terminals, cell imbalance, the BMS hitting it's peak, charging source cables etc

Felicity lithium battery is devoid of all that complexity. DIY lithium batteries when properly done are even simpler. The esoteric skills you need to talk to your batteries using some popular BMSes are pairing your phone to a bluetooth device or connecting a usb cable to your computer and running an application.

For DIY users like myself, using a manageable BMS makes Lifepo4 to be so much fun, one of my cell voltage was rising some time ago and I checked the cells to realise it was due to a not well connected cell terminal. I have a relatively balanced cell now

ojeysky:
Anyone interested in this 12v 280AH bundle package should reach out to me:

Here is what you get:
- 4x280AH cells
- Adjustable 2-40A, 11-16v lithium charger
- 35A smart BMS with Bluetooth monitoring
- Connection bus bars (3 pieces)
- 4s balancer

Price 350k

Fwiw, it's some of the cells that I use personally and I have not confirmed actual capacity.

WhatsApp 0 8 zero three five 2 3 3535

Still available and negotiable; removing some accessories will reduce the price

meine:
Peterichy come and answer your people. Just one day of trading, call out have started.

Guinness is not moving up as expected but one thing is certain, it would recover and it's just a matter of time.

Mcy56:
I updated the first reply self.
Thought you went for it for JIJO or something.
Everything is risk taking anyway.
There's one thing I tried not to allow Nsempas do to me, Panic.
Watch as events unfolds and do the needful yourself. This is risk market, we win some, we lose some. Just to try and work around our wins more than our losses. Shikena.
See the same UACN they're waiting for at 3 or is it 2 or 1 naira self, it closes at N7 today. So, it's well.

I learnt this quite late hence made little profit on intbrew,total, neimeth and wapco but it's better late than never. Welcome back and good to know you are now feeling better