₦airaland Forum

manny4life: Yes, Boeing has more technical capability than their counterparts.

How is the ASM poorer than the 777 ext range? On whose calculation was this on? Orders are simply low because for some reason the 787 is a flop and has been having issues lately. For some reason, Boeing can't get it together this time around. As soon as the Dreamliner is fixed and customers have confidence in Boeing, things will fall into place. Besides, I saw the Intercontinental at IAD and it's awesome Lufthansa video, so the project isn't doomed.

Haha, unless if you're the Boeing Aeronautical Engineer who cooperated with Air force Engineers, then please, let's stick to what we know. The Pentagon is the DEFENSE command of the nation and is battle ready to defend the white house, YET, there are fighter jets who fly within the airspace from time to time. Aircraft carriers who carry everything and have triple capabilities than their sea counterparts still has warships escorts and fighter jets as escorts. Even sometimes, depending on locations, have nuclear subs following it...

Even fighter jets provides escorts to themselves in friendly and enemy war zone, hoe much more, POTUS airplane... seriously? Fighter escorts are there to do one TWO things - PROTECT AND SERVE. This does not mean that it cannot defend itself.

Take it from me, 747-8I is a doomed project, even though it was meant to be decoy to keep Boeing in the picture of the biggies. Seat per mile cost of the 747-8I is lower or equal to that of a B777-3ER, ( not my words but that of Boeing technical director). 747-8I Seat per mile cost is equal to that of B777-3ER when you opt for the option with additional fuel tank at the HTP to give additional range.

Dreamliner is a technology demonstration which has boxed Boeing to a tight corner! B777X EVO announcement is due for FY13 but with dreamliner still draining the banks rather than swelling it, not one is sure if B77XX EVO launch will finally go ahead by FY13 ending.

Lenny5000: Nope not What the Americans whats anybody to know. These are just basic information about an extraodinary piece of technology...By the way did you actually read the whole article? Cos more than once they said what you are repeating right now

Did you call that an extra ordinary piece of technology Dear Lord.... open our eyes that we may see

manny4life: Bros chill, I think you're misunderstanding how they mean.

How else can one read that statement?

manny4life: You were comparing size and technical characteristics and I told you the -800 variant is closer to what you're asking. How's the Intercontinental a doomed aircraft? Is it because it has a higher capability than the 380 family?

It's not for you to see the wow factor, simply take all the capabilities of what the White House can do + Pentagon + Defense, add them altogether and you have a flying equipment. That is why it's dubbed the flying White House. So if you believe that none of these are wow factor, well it will wow the day it's attacked?

747-8I has high technical capability than A380 FYI, -8I is doomed because ASM is poorer than even B777-3ER, orders well below development cost. What is so spectacular about computers accessing servers based on ground using satellite technology That is exactly what the Airforce One does. If it has military capabilities, then it wouldn't need 4 F-16E escorting her during flight.

4.Air Force One has unlimited range and can carry the President wherever he needs to travel. The onboard electronics are hardened to protect against an electromagnetic pulse, and Air Force One is equipped with advanced secure communications equipment, allowing the aircraft to function as a mobile command center in the event of an attack on the United States. The media refer to it as “The flying Oval Office” or the “ The flying White House”. On September 11th, 2001, the president's plane showed that it was much more than an executive jet -- it became a mobile bunker when all ground positions seemed vulnerable to attack


The part in bold is absolute trash! Unlimited range my foot. Even with refueling capability, the typical range of the Aircraft is still limited.

manny4life: Air force One isn't about the what equipment is used, after all it's a 747-200, one of the earlier models of Boeing, so we know it's not a modern plane one. If you wanna compare the A380, you have to look at the 800 variants. That compare in size and weight to the 380. What makes the Air force One capable than all this aircraft is the military capabilities and customization, 80% of which highly classified.

Seriously have you actually being on the A380? Comapring it to that cargo -800 of a boeing 747 is a joke! Boeing 747-8I is a doomed aircraft. As for Airforce One, I see no military capabilities it got that is a WoW factor.

Reference: But its by far not the grandiest big daddy of them all. Airforce One is built on a 747-200 chasis which is over 35 years old. I learnt one of those Arabian Sheikhs, Emirs or Sultaan (forgotten who precisely) has ordered a customised Airbus A380 complete with gold plated lavs, a swimming pool, limousine garage and a personal elevator. The only problem the folks at Airbus have is the weight of the tiles in the Turkish bath as his Highness insists on the real thing, no make-belief substitutes, making meeting the maximum take-off weight limits a real tall order. The price ??. Perhaps a couple of oil wells pumping for six months.

Yup The bolded part of your statement is very correct. I am not saying much but Air force One is an aged Aircraft where A380 stands. The italicized part of your post is arrant nonsense! The Airbus A380 being sold to the Royals is a 571t Max Ramp Weight (MRW), 569t MTOW which is well below the upscaled MRW of the A380. What most people may not know is A380 there is an extended variant of the A380 which was ment to be the freighter version with MTOW of 600t but was 'canned'

The Qataris A340 customization is far modern than the Air Force One!

Soon we all breathe that last breath, soon it will be over. By the time we all cross that line, it dawns that neither UK, Nigeria, US or any part of this earth was our after-all. Now the blood of the innocent is required of the hands of someone.

But will this Soul now be reckon unto God?

Arobam: It's so unfortunate that some Nigerians are so parochial and hateful. How can any sane mind have problem with the remodelling of airports?
This is development at work. The remodelling is not only for the building alone. It involves the runways and the control tower.
And who told you that Sam Mbakwe airports are not safe? Have you heard of any mishap or incident in Owerri airport owing to poor facilities.
Why must we be this critical of this government?
If you see somebody who is working, appreciate it. These airports were not like this before.
But the present minister is really upgrading them and giving them a facelift. She deserves our kudos

Because low minds like you have barely set your foot outside of Nigeria to see what an Airport really looks like! Remodelling an airport goes beyond painting walls and ceilings. It is total re-planning of the now and future capacity of the airport and that begins with the runway utilization planning, control tower 24/7 operations, aircraft handling facilities and passenger's comfort.

Come to some of the airports here in Europe, used by most of the low cost carriers, now much can be said about the passenger's comfort zone but they make sure the main thing that makes an airport function 24/7 is available!

Nigerians, wake up to reality! If someone calls you a fool and you go to a corner and start asking yourself if you are a fool, then you are! That the West says Lagos is unlivable counts for nothing, it is what we Nigerians make of it. They called Sao Palo slums, they said Brazil was a huge slum, soon it displaced UK as the 6th biggest Economy, today they are now chating Brazil as an emerging super power.

Let Amanpour say what she likes, what counts and will make the difference is what Nigerians do with their country.

GAR3TH: NRC makes N500,000 ($3100) per trip between Kaduna-Minna?. What about operation cost, servicing, paying personnel, diesel and other costs. Its pretty clear that they are operating at a loss. How do they expect to improve without revenue? I guess thats what you get when you receive free allocations from the federal government...you forget how to run a institution and become dependent on allocations.

Thank you for this candid observation. Insincere_nigerian lacks the reasoning capacity to deduce that Revenue never bring any investor to any business venture, rather PROFIT does! A sane individual would have noticed how stupid the press release by the NRC spokesman was.

1. What is the cost of a single trip on the Kaduna-Minna route?

2. What is the expected profit margin if the coaches are still not fully paid for?

3. For a press release as this, you would expect emphasis to be placed on the opportunity for growth and what plan is currently on ground to make that growth happen.

4. That He said people were standing on such a long journey shows it is still a 'cargo' service!

A nuclear armed North Korea with a long range missile capability = Google + Apple + Ford + GM would begin to invest in that country massively. Watch out!

free13: By Jonathan Samuels, Australia correspondent

An Australian court has heard the bizarre case of a goat which destroyed a flowerbed - and has found in favour of the peckish animal.
Gary the goat was accused of eating flowers outside Sydney's Museum of Contemporary Art and his owner James Dezarnaulds, was fined \$440 (£295) by police.
However, the comedian, also known as Jimbo Bazoobi, contested the fine.
As he delivered his version of events to the magistrate his sidekick waited nervously outside court surrounded by reporters and photographers.
Magistrate Carolyn Barkell said the accused had been eating the flowers when police arrived.
"I accept that he did eat garden plants," she said.
However, she said there was no evidence Mr Bazoobi took Gary there with the intention of vandalising vegetation.
"He may have preferred to have an ice cream," she said.
Gary's lawyer Paul McGirr told the court police had issued the wrong infringement notice because it related to a person and not a goat.
He also said it could not be proved that Mr Bazoobi put Gary up to the act.
"We can't guess what he might have been whispered in his goat ear," he said.
Mr Bazoobi tours Australia with Gary and told reporters he bought him for a case of beer last year.
Speaking after the verdict Mr Bazoobi said: "Gary's name has been cleared of all this slander. He was simply eating and I want to thank everyone for coming down here.
"Gary the goat taught the cops a valuable lesson today, don’t bite off more than you can chew."

Mr McGirr said: "Think about the waste of taxpayers' money that has been spent on prosecuting a person because a goat is eating some grass or some vegetation.
"I've always been an advocate that all police should be out doing real police work. I'd also like to know what other police who are working hard would think about their colleague actually writing a ticket to someone whose goat is feeding."
The magistrate dismissed Mr Bazoobi's application for the Crown to pay his legal costs but cancelled his fine.
[b]Gary was not required to give evidence and made no comment on the verdict.[/b]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/australia-gary-goat-overturns-conviction-101840143.html

taharqa: All these ACN and CPC people make small shame just make una contest just one of d figures d @OP and odas presentd, in stead of engaging in meaningless frivolous talks. Just a little shame...

For a poster that calls UK's PM description of Nigeria as the fourth fastest growing nation as achievement why would one waste 1joule of energy responding to him/her?

CFCfan: If that is the case, I don't think it will be bad for Nigeria to do the same.

I just want an airline(s) that can effectively challenge the likes of BA. Virgin Atlantic, Delta, Emirates etc, on the lucrative routes.
Nigeria Airways was, arguably, an effective competitor to the major Eurpoean/North American airlines from the 1970s till the late 1980s.

*Full disclosure: My mum used to work at Nigeria Airways, in the catering dept*

I do not want a Nigerian carrier to operate like BA, Virgin, or Delta. Those airliners are walking dead playing with their financial books. Talking about being lucrative, Nigeria has a very vibrant working population who are willing to spend their extra cash on flying. Government needs to wake up and get real with the exorbitant charges her agencies level against operators and also, since Nigeria is an oil producing nation, I see no reason why government can not put in place measures for cheap jet A1 to be made available to Airliners who ply their routes in Nigeria ONLY. This way, their cost would come down, they would employ more Nigerians, and government will get her money back through taxes! Income and company taxes.

[quote author=CROWÉ]A national carrier is an organization that identifies with the nation, it doesn't have to be owned by it, it is basically our cheerleader/advertisement to the world. The lufthansa is the German flagship airline, about 87% of it is privately owned, it just flies the German flag and advertises Germany to the world, hope that helps. That said it better not be called airways. air or airlines is fine but airways is so yesterday.[/quote]Not so true. There is so much that comes with being a national carrier. One of them is you have landing slots priority on lucrative routes originating from your home country. The like of Lufthansa play back door politics in that the owners of the shares in the company are tied to the government.

justwise: [b]

You can't just stop talking nonsense, its in your DNA, giving excuses after excuses, Norton cleverly used Nigeria to market their product because Nigeria created the market for it.

I'm not surprised at your rant at all because you are a well known sympathiser

To your grand stupidity, you call such shrewdness "cleverly" product marketing. Yet if this same approach was employed by a Nigeria based or Nigerian owned company, you would scream high heaven and display your holier than thou attitude claiming how this will never be done by a Western company.

FYI, I am not a wannabe whitey like you're and I call a Spade its first name! I dare to ask you, in all your student life here in the UK, how many times have you order goods online from China? Is cyber crime by Chinese not 10X that of Nigerians? Can Norton dare to do same to China?

Like I said, the stupidity of folks like you who come on-line and claim holier than thou, because your self-worth is tied to bashing and condemning Nigeria at every turn of the corner and glorifying anything done by Western companies or government of nation states from the West.

CFCfan: Another option could be for the new national carrier to partner with other West African businessmen to form a super-West African airline, that will effectively cover all parts of the sub-region. This would greatly be in the spirit of ECOWAS.

For now, West Africa is not well integrated and still fragile, hence creating such a mega carrier will not be sustainable in the long run. Nigeria have individual business men who have more money than Richard Branson to invest in Airliners but the government has failed to create the enabling environment that would convince them to venture into Air transportation.

Without being funny, the future is not crude oil. The future is GAS. Our gas is needed to power West Africa, we just need a focused government to put in place measures to make these things happen.

I hope some Nigerians will not die of hatred by the time they see Nigerian engineers put a satellite in space like the North Korean did few months ago. All Nigeria need right now is purposeful leadership to spurr the brains in Nigeria into good deeds in every field of human endeavor.

Tony Spike: At the bolded, oga take am easy na... .
Missile and guidance system for Nigeria? Which positioning or clocking satellite system will they use to implement that? I'm very sure Nigeria is relying on foreign military hardwares, which is operational based on only foreign satellites. Is it not a shame that we churn out thousands of engineers every year from our universities, and yet, the government cannot use some of them in the development of our local technologies? Well, on the drone news, this is great. It's one thing to design a mini-flying machine, it's another thing to embedded it with sophisticated frequency and remote sensing, terrain analysis and positioning systems. The research has only just started...

I hope you are aware that the Nigeria satellite launched by the Chinese have a Military Band channel on-board?

The stupidity of some Nigerians who have no inkling of what Business ethics means is so surprising! Those of us that have access to global data on cyber crime knows Nigeria is no where near the top of the nations who engage in industrial and Domestic cyber crimes!

Most Nigerians on NL e.g Justwise continue to display holier than thou whenever Nigeria and Nigerians unfairly stereotyped by big corporations or governments of nation state. We know cyber criminals in Ukraine, Georgia, Bosnia, Russia commit more cyber crimes, will Norton have the guts to brand these nations as they are doing to Nigeria?

Whilst no body is glorifying any Nigerian or groups of Nigerians who engage in cyber crimes, I think a responsible business outfit ought to know where to draw the line when trying to market their products or services.

Someone even made a nonsensical comments about a music video on youtube. If I may respond mildly to that shallowness of a reasoning, did Americans cry high heavens when tupac, Notorious BIG, etc sang songs glorifying guns, killings etc? I am sure that poster also sang those songs

taharqa: This could be a good suggestion. Could we pull something like this off by the smart use of the SWF?

.... But Wait o, was this not what OBJ was trying to o with TRANSCORP that didn't work out as planned

Good observation, that is exactly what Obasanjo was trying to achieve with TRANSCORP, unfortunately, it came little too late in His second term.

Akiika: Ah ah ah! what an unintelligent analysis!
So EPL did not affect us when ALMOST half of the squad (Okocha, Kanu, Yobo, Babayero, Okoronkwo, and Yakubu) that won AFCON in 200 playED in EPL?
Follow this siimple rule: THINK before you TYPE, not the other way around!

You really do not know football history, some of you just spew rubbish without thinking through what you are typing. Kanu in His days was a skilful dribbler, same with Okocha. Either of them were not EPL brand as at the time we won in 1994, and in 2000, Kanu just about joined Arsenal, and Okocha was a PSG firebrand, dazzling with skills with the likes of Balakov. In fact they brought to EPL dazzling skills and today they are both still remembered for their skills and the manner of goals they scored in EPL. To them, playing football means you dribble your opponent on the pitch and not the police ball you see our players play these day which is a prime feature in the EPL.

The op is spot on His analysis. The fact remains that even here in England, they are seriously concerned with their 'ballon the ball' premiership football ancho badly it has affected the national team.

Watching Nigeria play Burkina Faso left me wondering especially in the second half what happened to our edge cutting dribbling and cross diagonal football Anyone who thinks the EPL kind of football is not affecting not just Nigeria players but most Africa teams is deluding His/her self.

manny4life: You do have a valid point in investing in companies with a solid footprint, nonetheless, Arik does not have a good reputation - customer wise and like I heard, financially, though I may be wrong. Like I said, it's all hearsay. I think what the govt need is implement aggressive plan, but no investor will gamble his money IF the govt want to keep theirs. I think that's what's going on here.

I tell you, if I won the mega millions here, and it's at least $10million, I'm coming to Nigeria.

Start with a Piper Cherokee for Hub to Hub from Lagos to P/H, stick to it like RyanAir and by 2020, you will be the darling of Nigeria Aviation. Mind you, $10m won't but you one Airbus A320. The latest Airbus list price is well over $60m

manny4life: That's the idea, whether their crew or not, it doesn't really matter. The cost will be just about the same. ILFC may attach their crew under ACMI but it doesn't mean they don't offer Dry lease as well. If the Crew is under the contractual lease, obligated by the lessor to pay their wages, FG is only responsible for their daily per diem and housing, literally.

How I feel isn't the issue nor should it be the passengers, but at the end of the day, it all boils down to what's negotiated should that become a problem. As for their earnings, like I said, if the lessor is obligated to pay their wage under that particular lease term, FG has no business how they get paid - dollars, euros, naira or whatever, don't matter .

As for insurance premiums, I'm not so sure how that works, but Nigeria has come a VERY LONG WAY in their navigational and aviation infrastructures. Depending on the negotiation, for instance "airplane will fly LHR-LOS-ABJ and vice versa. These airports are ICAO certified and meet requirements to handle the aircraft. Nigeria is not a nation at civil war, so therefore, insurance premiums won't be exhortation unlike if it was Mali or Somalia.

Look man, I do not endorse the "national carrier model", however my point is, should they decide to be equitable owners as well, leasing sounds better than undertaking a huge financial obligation. Lease works best to test the market because airplanes are not easy to dispose of, financially.

Fair point, however, what is wrong in FG buying percentage shares in those airlines that have survived the difficult terrain so far in the country? Arik Air has an international image and foot print abroad already, why can't FG set up a group who will then buy stakes in these airlines? Arik Air already have 25 aircrafts and have already placed order for B787 and other aircrafts yet to be delivered. With those you can begin to build network of flights, and create a hub in Lagos and Abuja.

Put aggressive plan in place to dominate the Africa skies within 5 years of continuous operations like Emirates did with Middle-East.

Sincere 9gerian: @Op..,I think you should appropriately title this thread by using a title that highlights the commissioning of another re-constructed airport terminal aspect. The current title appears as if this it is an ordinary news report or mere political statement.

I recall the 'Eko oni ba je' cabal popping champagne over inspection of uncompleted projects the other day. They also found away to push that report to the front page.

The commissioning of a project that cost the FG something close to N1billion should be given its proper place

If you were not a classed animal, you would know that spending N1billion on a Private jet terminal and calling for celebration is definition of insanity! If you do not know, the fact that the government is still constructing airport terminals underscores the level of backwardness of the FG's developmental policy.

FYI, Heathrow T5 which gulped over £5.7bn was financed by private investors through government backing.

manny4life: First off, I do agree with you that the govt should have no business operating airlines, however, unless if it's based on minor equity in the company like Ethiopian, then its all good.

Secondly, leasing is a very sound option to buying, so I do not necessarily agree with you on these. That Arik air did not survey and research their route doesn't mean that routes isn't profitable for others. Nigeria, if serious can provide their own (crew and maintenance), while the lessor builds in the insurance and aircraft as part of the block hours.

On the issue of Arik, several forces including GREED where working against them - their tickets were overly expensive (given the fact that Nigerian taxes are crippling), I also heard they operated flights directly from ABJ to LHR with only 10 people on board. How do you expect to break even on this flight?


As for your other line of thoughts, I absolutely agree with you on those.

I hope you know that most of the leasing companies, ILFC etc they no longer offer just Aircraft, they attach to it several requirements. For example, half of the crew flying their aircraft will be their flight crew, and FG will pay a package fee for and the leasing firm will end up paying the crew by the hour. Also, how will you feel when you fly a Nigeria Carrier and more than half of your crew are foreigners earning their salary in Dollars and getting taxed by a foreign government out of the taxes paid by Nigerians? Also, insurance premiums for leased Aircraft to Nigerian operator is current very high due to the level of insecurity in the country.

Like I said previously, the air transportation model of a national carrier is out dated and has no place in modern air transportation.

CFCfan: The main argument against a single hub is that Nigeria is more populous that the aforementioned countries combined; therefore, more towns/cities need to benefit from international exposure. The other day, I was reading an online article in which some British residents were complaining about BA's London-centric policy. They argued that the airline should offer more international flights from other British cities. Also, most Nigerian aviation experts prefer the 'American' model of several hubs (New York, Atlanta, Los Angeles, Dallas etc). This system can open up other Nigerian cities to global business, and hence, slow down the massive migration to both Lagos and Abuja. I think Nigerian aviation authorities should continue their policy of opening up cities such as Enugu, Port Harcourt and Kano. The efforts of both Akwa Ibom and Delta states, in setting up airports, are also commendable.

The reason the American System would not work with a single hub is partly due to her regional time difference. The idea of a major or very few hub in your country is to try and promote home country airliners who fly within the country. Also you get to trap some foreign exchange within your country by international or cross continents flyers. Take for example, if you were going to fly to Enugu from Paris, you book a trip with Fly Nigeria to Enugu but you will have to change over to local connection flight of Fly Nigeria in Lagos. By so doing, you will be bringing the foreign cash to pay for your air transportation within Nigeria. Another reason is Code-share, which basically allows local airliners to partner with global giants, and over the years, they learn the trade of international air transportation and they too will begin to fly to regional hubs and offer greater connectivity.

CFCfan: Absolutely spot on. But I also believe the govt can own some shares in an airline. For eg, the highly profitable Ethiopian Airways has about 20% of it's shares owned by the Ethiopian govt.
I think what the minister meant by 'establishment' was that the airline would be registered by the CAC; thereafter the airline would send orders to the two major aircraft manufacturers. The first planes might be ready in about 2 years time.

The 20% Shares by Ethiopians government is a way of the government have a chance to keep an eye on what goes on in the day to day dealings of the airline. When Ethiopians Airline placed order for B787-8/-9 did you see any government Minister in that signing photo-op? When Boeing delivered Ethiopians Airline's first 787, did you see entourage of government ministers there? That should give you an indication of how the government's 20% shares plays itself out.

mikeansy: http://www.osundefender.org/?p=88118

The president cut in, and pointing in my direction remarked: “We shall pray as you have requested but the problem with you people from Anambra is that those of you who have something to offer shy away from politics and hooligans have taken over your state”

Afam4eva, come defend this statement oh

CFCfan: It's going to be a private sector-driven airline. The govt may have some stake in the new airline, but the private sector will have the lion's share.

Why can't the government float a group like Emirates and Qataris group backed by Nigeria's oil and gas majors. The group then invest in air transportation, infrastructure, etc. That way, the country will have her flag flown by aircraft owned by the group and Her major Hub will be Lagos for International and Abuja for internal. That anyone connecting with the Airline and flying to outside Nigeria will fly through Lagos, while those connecting internally will fly through Abuja. This is a model that has been operated for years by Emirates Group and the Qataris. Why can't we emulate these models