₦airaland Forum

achorladey:
Na so your mode of operation be. You will start given new terms and conditions on that thread like this one too.

He got his wish.

And I am excited to see his answers to my questions with proof to back each of them up.

MaxInDHouse:
You're not ready for this challenge, are you?

You got your wish.

https://www.nairaland.com/7006256/jesus-real-myth-challenge-maxindhouse

Shall we begin?

This thread is an overflow from a earlier thread - - https://www.nairaland.com/6994962/witnesses-jehovah-documentary

I have challenged MaxInDHouse to give me undeniable proof that Jesus is a real figure from history and not a mythical figure.

This is the actual challenge:

I have put it to you that it is a FACT that the life and story of Jesus in the Bible is not unique.

It is a cheap copy of the life and story of similar God-men from cultures thousands of years older than the Bible.

The best you can you do is show me proof from your extensive research that shows that -

1. Jesus really existed and is not a Mythical Figure,

2. Jesus really existed based on archeological findings, and

3. The life and teachings of Jesus is original and not copied from HORUS of ancient Egypt and many other Christ figures like Dionysus, Bacchus, Mythiras but to mention a few.

I guess we can start from there.

Show me your well researched proof, and I will show you mine.

Can we do that instead of going back and forth with the name calling?

MaxInDHouse the ball is in your court.

Shall we begin?

MaxInDHouse:
NO!
I want this to be trashed on a new thread since it's not the topic we are discussing here.
If truthfully you want this challenge just open a new thread and let the topic be.

"Is Jesus real? Challenge for a Christian (MaxInDHouse)"

I want all critics of Jehovah's Witnesses to be ashamed today, ṣebí they're always coming to argue with us regarding Jesus Christ!

Hahahaha

Does it really matter if it is on a new thread?

No matter where it is, people will find it.

MaxInDHouse:
I want you to acknowledge that only true Christians can prove that Jesus is real!
Others are CHURCHGOERS with nothing apart from credulous ideologies!

Let's focus here then.

No need creating a new thread.

Since you are a "true Christian", kindly answer the three questions I asked above with proof.

Thank you.

MaxInDHouse:
I love this challenge but before we proceed i want you to rephrase your questions.

Please address your questions to all those claiming CHRISTIANS so that only those coming to speak for Jesus will be known as true believers in Christ.

“Everyone, then, who acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father who is in the heavens. But whoever disowns me before men, I will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens" Matthew 10:32-33


Or

Rephrase your questions and specifically say "this is a challenge for Christians"
Romans 10:9

Thanks in advance!

Lol.

Why are you looking for external support?

Are you doing this research for anyone else?

For me to agree to a change in the terms of this challenge, we might have to create a new thread to address this square.

But I directed this challenge at YOU.

Come to think of it, why are you involving other "Christians"?

I thought you have always called them common church goers, and have on countless occasions insulted them for their belief in a trinity?

Why do you need their support in this instance?

I would like to understand why before agreeing to these new terms.

MaxInDHouse:
On the case having to do with Jesus' historicity!
I will never be a spectator in Jesus name.
Amen!
I can be a spectator when a Muslim is arguing over your trinity but on the historicity of Jesus?

Well each person must prove what he knows about Jesus of Nazareth!

This isn't about "each person"...

This is about you showing me proof that -

1. Jesus really existed in history, and is not a mythical figure,

2. Jesus really existed based on archeological findings,

3. The life and teachings of Jesus is original and not copied from older teachings of HORUS from ancient Egypt and many other similar God - men from antiquity.

If you need time to do your research and gather your findings, kindly let me know.

There are other critical issues to trash out, but this a very good place to start.

oteneaaron:
That is why there is something called counter-research.

I have put it to you that it is a FACT that the life and story of Jesus in the Bible is not unique.

It is a cheap copy of the life and story of similar God-men from cultures thousands of years older than the Bible.

The best you can you do is show me proof from your extensive research that shows that -

1. Jesus really existed and is not a Mythical Figure,

2. Jesus really existed based on archeological findings, and

3. The teachings of Jesus is original and not copied from HORUS of ancient Egypt and many other Christ figures like Dionysus, Bacchus, Mythiras but to mention a few.

I guess we can start from there.

Show me your well researched proof, and I will show you mine.

Can we do that instead of going back and forth with the name calling?

What do you think?

MaxInDHouse

When shall we begin?

I am waiting for your undeniable proof to the above.

If you need sometime to do your extensive research and gather your findings, kindly let me know.

We can even create a new thread to thrash this out squarely.

Let me know what works for you.

MaxInDHouse:
Right from the moment he admitted publicly that Jesus is just a myth, i flashed back to all his arguments and i realized that he's always arguing based on the general perspective of people around him. He always avoid anything that could restrict him from moving along with the crowd.
So it's not about faith in God, Jesus or the Bible rather his goal is to become acquaintances of people in general no matter what they believe.
Right from yesterday i have decided to restrict my discussion with him to preaching about Jesus of Nazareth now that it's clear he doesn't view Jesus as a real historical figure but just as a myth!

That is why there is something called counter-research.

I have put it to you that it is a FACT that the life and story of Jesus in the Bible is not unique.

It is a cheap copy of the life and story of similar God-men from cultures thousands of years older than the Bible.

The best you can you do is show me proof from your extensive research that shows that -

1. Jesus really existed and is not a Mythical Figure,

2. Jesus really existed based on archeological findings, and

3. The teachings of Jesus is original and not copied from HORUS of ancient Egypt and many other Christ figures like Dionysus, Bacchus, Mythiras but to mention a few.

I guess we can start from there.

Show me your well researched proof, and I will show you mine.

Can we do that instead of going back and forth with the name calling?

What do you think?

MaxInDHouse:
He isn't taking side rather he's trying to do something. Find out the MOTIVE behind his comment first before you can know for real why he spewed the gibberish!

MOTIVE you say?

Pray tell, what is his motive?

Anyways, I do agree with you that his words are actually gibberish.

MaxInDHouse:
This is where your insincerity becomes really obvious!
Is Jesus a real historical figure or just a myth?
In the intelligence we don't discard anything no matter how stupid it may sound as long as we're able to perceive the MOTIVE behind it.
The Bible talked about a God who claims to be the Almighty, this God authored the book and PERFECTLY made sure it reached all the four corners of the earth so the first thing any true researcher need to find out is the MOTIVE behind that book (Bible)
The so called history you've gathered all these while means nothing to the intelligence unless you're able to tell the MOTIVE behind the production of that book that has become the most important book and best seller of all time (Bible)
As for Jesus and whatever the book says about him that's just secondary not our primary goal!

Why do you keep contradicting yourself?

To investigate whether or not Jesus was a real figure in history, and if the Bible in itself is based on true history and not MYTHS and ALLEGORIES, we MUST do extensive research into the history of Christianity and the Bible itself.

Why do I say this?

Haven't you heard of the council of Nicea that was set up by Emperor Constantine after his "conversion" into Christianity?

How do you think you got the little 66 books in the Bible?

It is a known FACT that at least 2,000 years before the life and story of Jesus was complied in the the Bible, there was already a similar story of a God-Man also known as the KRST or CHRIST in ancient Egypt called HORUS.

HORUS was even called IUSA, which is an earlier version of the word "Jesus"

- HORUS was born on the 25th of December

- He was born of a virgin and 3 wise men came to pay homage to him on the day of his birth

- He turned water into wine

- He resurrected a man called El Asarus

- He healed the sick and infirmed

- He walked on water, etc...

Go and read about the Rosetta Stone, the Naghamadi Scriptures, and the Behistun rock.

The stories in the Bible are not unique.

Even the basic creation story of Genesis in the Bible is not even original - it is a cheap copy of the original creation story from the ATRAHASIS and the ENUMA ELISH found on the clay cuneiform tablets from ancient Mesopotamia which predates every known civilization by thousands of years.

But I can't SPOON FEED you.

You must DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH.

The information is out there for you.

All you need to do is find it.

MaxInDHouse:
When talking about reality try to consider the profession of others and their experience in life. When you say Max (the former agent of the intelligence) i expected you to challenge that intelligence from a critical point of view not a childish challenge that'll keep making you sound like a baby before real intellectuals.

Do you truly want to challenge my intelligence or you're just trying to blackmail a group all because of their bold claim of being the only true religion?
Well to prove something is right or wrong you must be prepared to check all sides not just the history. WHY? Because humans are capable of lying and by so doing conceal facts that may lead you to get what you truly desire to find out.
What assurance do you have that all those stories you're relying upon aren't fabricated to distort facts?
Remember i am an ex military intelligence officer so i've gotten much more experience than you in this field. We deal with people and things we're able to gather through what they say. But we don't forget one thing that's behind all human actions: "MOTIVE"
So no matter what any agent may think he is able to gather he must first be certain of the MOTIVE behind otherwise the intelligence will tell you "you still need to go back for another course" because everything humans do has a MOTIVE behind it and once you can't perceive the MOTIVE then you've done nothing worthwhile before the intelligence!

Interesting points I must admit - Mr Military Intelligence Officer

But why are you now asking about my MOTIVE?

What facts am I trying to conceal?

The extensive research into proving whether or not your organization is the "only true religion" is based on YOUR OWN PUBLICATION.

Or is that not a valid source of research?

To understand if a religion or organization is what it really says it is, we MUST investigate its HISTORY and its own PUBLICATIONS.

It is you who is shying away from doing this extensive research about the true origins of the religion you profess.

Isn't that in reality being insincere?

What are you scared of?

From the look of things, it is you who should be asked if you have a MOTIVE.

Because, why are you not digging deep into the history of your religion and into your own "old publications"?

All for social media clout.

Taking sides in a conflict he has no inkling idea of how it all started since the days of the Soviet Union.

Pathetic.

MaxInDHouse:
While others who are equally wrong are joining you against one group shey?
Well such joint effort of criticism can only achieve one thing in the mind of a JW:
Jesus already warned us that the world will hate us for claiming exactly what he claimed that led to the same kind of hatred he faces in the first century!
Do you now see where your so called research failed woefully?

That is where you got it all wrong.

Where is the hate in any of my statement?

Your organization says it is the one true religion.

To prove that statement, we MUST study the history of your organization, and study ALL of your publications - both new and old.

Don't confuse what Jesus was saying with your organization.

Don't get it twisted - He wasn't talking about you.

MaxInDHouse:
According to your research is any religion claiming Christian true?
If your answer is NO then your concentration on just one group is confirmed insincerity!

What do you mean?

How am I being insincere?

Did you even read any of what I typed up there?

No other organization has come outright and claimed to be the "one true religion", "God's Organization", "God's only channel of communication", or "God's spirit-led organization.

Only yours, the JWs/ the Watchtower Organization, have made this claim.

And because of that, we MUST first dismantle that FALSE CLAIM, before moving on to the next step of doing extensive research into the roots of Christianity as a whole.

But what do I know?

The Ball is in your court and like I have said countless times before now, I CAN'T SPOON FEED YOU.

You have to do this for yourself.

But from the look of things at this moment, you are not ready to free your mind from the shackles of religious indoctrination.

So continue receiving your weekly Zoom dose of indoctrination, and refuse to do any refuse research for yourself.

One day, it will dawn on you.

Cheers!!

MaxInDHouse:
No sincere individual will listen to you when you're choosy in your research!

Suite yourself man.

When the time is right, you will understand me.

MaxInDHouse:
Before i can take anything from you seriously you should give the same advice to all those claiming believers in Jesus of Nazareth.
Then i will agree that you have something worthwhile but with your attack on only JWs it shows you're not sincere with your so called research!

Have you done any counter research to prove false any of my claims?

This isn't about name calling.

JWs have claimed to be the "only true religion" but extensive research into its true origins, with the assistance of its own publications, has proven that to be a BLATANTLY FALSE CLAIM.

So if the JW organization has been proven to be false, the next step is to take our extensive research to the true roots of Christianity itself.

But you are not willing to take that hard road, you prefer to be spoon fed with ever changing doctrines from men like you.

Instead of you to do yourself a favor, to actually DO YOUR RESEARCH, and give your mind a chance to change your world view, you prefer INDOCTRINATION.

Is that not tantamount to LYING to your own self?

MaxInDHouse:
The only research i know here shows that you're a LIAR.
If truthfully you have something tangible to offer you should be open to all not only JWs!

How am I a LIAR?

Have you done any counter research to prove false any of my claims?

This isn't about name calling.

JWs have claimed to be the "only true religion" but extensive research into its true origins, with the assistance of its own publications has proven that to be a BLATANTLY FALSE CLAIM.

So if the JW organization has been proven to be false, the next step is to take our extensive research to the true roots of Christianity itself.

But you are not willing to take that hard road, you prefer to be spoon fed with ever changing doctrines from men like you.

Instead of you to do yourself a favor, and give your mind a chance to change your world view, you prefer INDOCTRINATION.

Is that not tantamount to LYING to your own self?

cornelboy:
Did Satan reveal part of Koran? Every Muslim should read through!


A Fresh Look at the Reason for Abrogation in the Quran

The official position of Sunni Islam is that the Quran contains a unique feature known as abrogation. Sunni scholarship maintains, on the basis of a few Quranic passages, that the Quran has verses that cancel or abrogate other verses within it. The verses that have been canceled or annulled are known as mansukh, and those texts or commands doing the canceling are called nasikh.

Muslims believe that it is Allah who has revealed both sets of texts, i.e. Allah is the one who sent down the canceled and the canceling verses.

Yet a careful study of the Quran actually indicates that Allah is not the one who sent down those specific passages that were then later canceled by the abrogating verses. If one were to pay careful attention to the specific citations that Muslims often use to support their belief in the doctrine of abrogation, not one of them explicitly say that Allah sent down the abrogated verses:

And for whatever verse (ayatin) We abrogate or cast into oblivion, We bring a better or the like of it; knowest thou not that God is powerful over everything? S. 2:106 Arberry

Allah makes to pass away and establishes what He pleases, and with Him is the basis of the Book. S. 13:39 Shakir

And when We exchange a verse (ayatan) in the place of another verse (ayatin) and God knows very well what He is sending down -- they say, ‘Thou art a mere forger!’ Nay, but the most of them have no knowledge. S. 16:101 Shakir

The foregoing texts only say that Allah blots out, cancels, annuls specific verses, but do not say that he had originally revealed those passages that he later annulled.

In other words, the Quran explicitly ascribes only the abrogating (nasikh) verses to Allah, but does not state anywhere that the abrogated (mansukh) verses also originated with Allah. The authorship of these verses is left unspecified in these above passages.

A further examination of the Quran actually shows that Satan, not Allah, is the one responsible for at least some if not all of the abrogated passages! Note what the following text says:

Never sent We a messenger or a prophet before thee but when He recited (the message) Satan proposed (opposition) in respect of that which he recited thereof. But Allah abolisheth that which Satan proposeth. Then Allah establisheth His revelations (ayatihi). Allah is Knower, Wise; S. 22:52 Pickthall

Sura 22:52 clearly refers to specific verses that Satan interjected or introduced into the message of Muhammad. Allah proceeds to blot out what Satan has proposed in the recitation of the prophets, thereby establishing his revelation. He does so by revealing something better or similar to what Satan brought, albeit minus the deceptions and/or distortions (that is why it is said to be similar, cf. S. 2:106).

This analysis is further supported by paying careful attention to the immediate context of Sura 16:101:

And when thou recitest the Qur'an, seek refuge in Allah from Satan the outcast. Lo! he hath no power over those who believe and put trust in their Lord. His power is only over those who make a friend of him, and those who ascribe partners unto Him (Allah). And when We put a revelation in place of (another) revelation, - and Allah knoweth best what He revealeth - they say: Lo! thou art but inventing. Most of them know not. S. 16:98-101 Pickthall

There is a connection, a direct correlation, between the Quran being recited, verses being abrogated, and seeking protection from Satan. The conclusion we can draw from this is that Muhammad was to seek God’s protection from Satan anytime he recited the Quran, since Satan had the habit of interjecting his own verses in order to confuse Muhammad and the Muslims regarding the Quran’s true reading. This then required Allah to blot out or cancel those verses that Satan introduced into Muhammad’s message.

To summarize: Some of the passages that speak about Allah abrogating verses and replacing them with better ones leave open the question who was the author of the abrogated verses. However, one passage explicitly says that Allah replaced what Satan had introduced (S. 22:52), and in another passage about abrogation the immediate context commands Muhammad to take refuge from Satan when reciting the Quran, thereby suggesting that Satan regularly tries to take influence over Muhammad’s recitation and seeks to twist it, though it claims at the same time that Allah will replace some revelations with others (S. 16:98-101). Fact is that the only author of the abrogated verses that is named explicitly in the Quran is Satan.

Therefore, when we seek to understand what all these texts are saying, when we interpret the verses on the issue of abrogation in light of one another, we are left with the conclusion that some of the passages of Satan have been expunged from the Quran whereas others may not have been removed. They still remain a part of the Quran.


Since a number of abrogated verses are still part of the Quran, Muslims must come to grips with the fact that their book contains citations which Satan inspired since he is the one who introduced those canceled passages. These texts apparently did not originate from Allah.

Even if a Muslim wants to reject our conclusion (and we would agree that the above outlined conclusion is most likely not what the author of the Quran intended to say), one can hardly avoid to admit that this is in the very least another example of the incoherence and incompleteness of the Quran. It would have been very easy to add a short statement about the origin of those abrogated verses. As it is, the available data seem to make Satan the author of part of the Quran.

Here is an example of abrogated and abrogating verses that can still be found in the Quran:

O ye who believe! the law of equality is prescribed to you in cases of murder: the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the woman for the woman. But if any remission is made by the brother of the slain, then grant any reasonable demand, and compensate him with handsome gratitude, this is a concession and a Mercy from your Lord. After this whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave penalty. S. 2:178

Contradicts the following:

For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our apostles came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land. S. 5:32 Shakir

We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers. S. 5:45 Arberry

One text implies that free men will not be put to death for the murder of slaves, or for women etc., whereas the other texts suggest that a person will be forced to pay for any unjust manslaughter irrespective of the class or gender of the victim. For a more detailed discussion of this issue, see the article on Islam's Unjust Punishments. This article also shows that 2:178 is worded so badly, that it leads to utter confusion and could hardly have come from the omniscient and wise God. It was absolutely necessary to abrogate it with something better that could actually be implemented.

An additional problem and difficulty arises from the statements of Sura 16:98-100. These verses say that Satan has no affect on those who put their trust in Allah. Yet both Sura 22:52 and the Islamic narrations say that Satan not only managed to interject his wishes into Muhammad’s recitation, but that Muhammad came under the power of Satan since he was bewitched for a time:

Narrated Aisha:
Once the Prophet was bewitched so that he began to imagine that he had done a thing which in fact he had not done. (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 53, Number 400)


Narrated 'Aisha:
that Allah's Apostle was affected by magic, so much that he used to think that he had done something which in fact, he did not do, and he invoked his Lord (for a remedy). Then (one day) he said, "O 'Aisha!) Do you know that Allah has advised me as to the problem I consulted Him about?" 'Aisha said, "O Allah's Apostle! What's that?" He said, "Two men came to me and one of them sat at my head and the other at my feet, and one of them asked his companion, 'What is wrong with this man?' The latter replied, 'He is under the effect of magic.' The former asked, 'Who has worked magic on him?' The latter replied, 'Labid bin Al-A'sam.' The former asked, 'With what did he work the magic?' The latter replied, 'With a comb and the hair, which are stuck to the comb, and the skin of pollen of a date-palm tree.' The former asked, 'Where is that?' The latter replied, 'It is in Dharwan.' Dharwan was a well in the dwelling place of the (tribe of) Bani Zuraiq. Allah's Apostle went to that well and returned to 'Aisha, saying, 'By Allah, the water (of the well) was as red as the infusion of Hinna, (1) and the date-palm trees look like the heads of devils.' 'Aisha added, Allah's Apostle came to me and informed me about the well. I asked the Prophet, 'O Allah's Apostle, why didn't you take out the skin of pollen?' He said, 'As for me, Allah has cured me and I hated to draw the attention of the people to such evil (which they might learn and harm others with).' "

Narrated Hisham's father: 'Aisha said, "Allah's Apostle was bewitched, so he invoked Allah repeatedly requesting Him to cure him from that magic)." Hisham then narrated the above narration. (See Hadith No. 658, Vol. 7) (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 75, Number 400)


This either means that the Quran is wrong since Satan does have power over Allah’s faithful slaves, or that Muhammad wasn’t fully trusting in Allah and therefore wasn’t completely pleasing to his god. Either way, these texts pose major problems for Muslims and their belief in Muhammad’s prophethood, as well as the Quran’s alleged divine inspiration in every part of it.

Even though Muslims will disagree with our conclusion, in light of the foregoing we ask them to ponder on the following questions. How can you be sure that Allah managed to remove all those verses that Satan had introduced before Muhammad died? And, since there are many verses in the Quran that Sunni Muslims consider to be abrogated, how do you know that some of these are not actually from Satan, instead of Allah?

Although it would be bad enough if only some of the abrogated verses in the Quran originate with Satan, we must note that these were not introduced in an abrogated state, but they were in operation and considered valid for a certain period, i.e. until Allah sent the abrogation. If Allah did not manage to abrogate all of these false verses, this means that not only the abrogated verses are under suspicion to be from Satan, but potentially all other verses as well, including the nasikh verses, since what would hinder Satan to inspire a verse that abrogates something previously given by Allah? If Satan can introduce verses into the Quran at all — and that is established by S. 22:52 —, then every single verse is doubtful.

Do not underestimate the question, "How can any Muslim be sure that Allah managed to remove all of Satan’s interjections before Muhammad died?" In the specific case of the infamous "Satanic Verses", the historical data suggest that it likely took several weeks if not months before they were cancelled and replaced. The abolishing and replacing was certainly not immediate. Moreover, the Quran also teaches that Christians were misled about the crucifixion of Jesus. The Gospels without doubt teach that Jesus was crucified. In fact, the crucifixion of Jesus is not only a side issue but is its central message and the core event in the Christian understanding of God’s way of salvation from sin. There is not even a hint in the Gospels that Jesus got replaced by somebody else. If we should believe the Quran, then Allah waited nearly 600 years before he rectified this rather fundamental error that has led astray all of Christendom, several billions of people until this day. This fact does not inspire much confidence that the god of Islam makes it a high priority to correct errors and falsehoods in his scriptures quickly. How can any Muslim trust that Allah has not left similarly fundamental errors and distortions in the Quran as he allegedly allowed to remain in the Gospels?

There is yet another uncomfortable question. S. 22:52 claims that Allah removes what Satan interjected. What does this say about the considerable number of verses that have been in the Quran at some time, but are no longer found in today’s version. Have all of them or most of them been removed because they originated from Satan? The verse on stoning should be particularly troubling in this regard, since it is a foundational part of the Shariah, even though it is no longer in the Quran. Islamic law demands to stone adulterers and Muslims follow this command to this day. Are they actually following a command of Satan since this verse was removed from the Quran, and in it we find instead a verse that commands to flog adulterers (S. 24:2)?

An afterthought

One could also take a somewhat different perspective. When we look at some of the abrogated and abrogating verses, e.g. the principle "there is no compulsion in religion" (S. 2:256) which was later abrogated by "fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them" (S. 9:5) , then it seems that oftentimes the earlier and abrogated verses are the better ones, while the later abrogating verses are of the evil and violent variety. Pondering this, one could then come to the conclusion that it was actually the other way around, i.e. Satan managed to abrogate the verses that Allah had originally given. Or, if we stick to the conclusion outlined in the main section of this paper, then the character of Allah in Islam is worse than that of Satan!





As indicated above, we agree with the likely Muslim objection that the author of the Quran most probably did not intend to say that the abrogated verses, both those removed from the Quran and those left in the text of the Quran, had originally come from Satan. However, the thesis presented above is simply taking the statements of the Quran at face value. We encounter it every day that people say something different than what they actually wanted to say. That is human nature. This very human characteristic can also be found in the text of the Quran. The fact that the Quran says what it didn't want to say on this issue, is simply another piece of evidence that the author of the Quran is not the omniscient God but a fallible human being who didn't realize that he actually said something that he did not mean.

This leaves the Muslims with two uncomfortable alternatives. If one accepts the assumption that the Quran is perfect and most eloquent in its language and formulation then one must accept the statements of the Quran on this issue at face value and is left with the conclusion that some or even all of the abrogated passages may have come from Satan. On the other hand, one can assume that this was not the intention of the author of the Quran, and one should not take the statements literally, but then it will be difficult to hold to the claim that the Quran is of divine origin because it has an inimitable eloquence that is not possible to achieve for human beings. The Quran is simply too human to be what it claims to be.

If only you used this same energy to research the true origins of your religion as a Jehovah's Witness, you would have been one step closer to being free of of your indoctrination.

But in a bid to attack another religion, you forget that the history of yours isn't any better.

Go and sit your ass down research about the true origins of your JW organization, and when you're done with that, research the true origins of Christianity as a whole.

After all, Judaism, Islam and Christianity are all termed under what we call - ABRAHAMIC RELIGIONS.

MaxInDHouse:
Give him the same advice so that he can know that his religion is nonsense to you!

I am speaking to you Max.

DO YOUR RESEARCH!!

There is so much information about the true history of your religion.

Go and find it out for yourself.

I can't spoon feed you.

MaxInDHouse:
Then tell him the same thing, let him know that you feel the same way towards him so he won't think you're only against JWs but all those claiming believers in Jesus of Nazareth!

So you really think Jesus was an actual figure in history?

DO YOUR RESEARCH!

Have you heard about the Egyptian Christ called Horus?

He was born of virgin, baptized at 30, resurrected Lazarus, turned water into wine, had a sermon on the mount, etc at least 2000 years before the Jesus of the Bible.

I gave you pointers sometime ago, go and start from reading those books.

Instead of taking the Bible as literal history - which it isn't, you should understand that it is all MYTHS and ALLEGORIES.

But I can't spoon feed you sir.

You have to find out this information for yourself.

It is not an issue of hate or attack.

History has proven this over and over again.

The life and story of Jesus is not unique, neither is it literal history.

There have been many "Christ Figures" from different cultures way older than Jesus of the Bible.

Go and read about - -

Horus, Dionysus, Krishna, Bacchus, Mythrias, but to mention a few.

DO YOUR RESEARCH!!

achorladey:
That is why dey cite Bible verses without quoting it to propagate what is not even in the verse dey cite. He knows all the verses he had been using repeatedly to show that the disciples err in predicting wrongly does not apply.

He needs to keep repeating to see someone will accept it hook line and sinker without questions even when he knew it doesn't apply.

Here are his words below with analysis........



Matthew 24:21..............

Matthew 24:3 ....While he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?”


Acts 1:6,7 So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” 7 He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction.*

Luke 19:11 While they were listening to these things, he told another illustration, because he was near Jerusalem and they thought that the Kingdom of God was going to appear instantly.

Luke 24:21

But we were hoping that this man was the one who was going to deliver Israel. Yes, and besides all these things, this is the third day since these things occurred


Where in all this scripture did they the disciples ever predicted that the Lord will return on a particular date or go as far as giving different dates?

To show how his defense becomes laughable. The last words of Jesus captured in Acts 1:6,7 states it does not belong to the disciples or those they now call GOVERNING Body to know what is placed under the jurisdiction of the Father.

Rather they went ahead to start using Daniel's prophecy to calculate ERRORS upon ERRORS on what they have NO jurisdiction. You see how WRECKLESS this is? Even went as far as stating the year of return for David, Abraham and the rest.

To save their face, what they already see as dates marked for the Lord's coming became dates that stands for the beginning of the last days

Errors falling on top of ERRORS

Two wrongs to them will make a right or justify being correct in their mode of operation

To him that they successfully did the wrong thing just like the disciples is validation and justification for being RIGHT . When other Christian denominations do same, they class them as Babylon the great, Satan organisation

Chale

Even the Daniel's prophecy they use has been debunked.

For one, Jerusalem was destroyed 587 BCE and not 607 BCE as their doctrine teaches.

This alone has destroyed their calculation of 1914.

Its crazy how the Bible can be misinterpreted to support a doctrine.

Funny enough, JF Rutherford was very correct was he said - "Religion is a snare and a racket."

That is why personally, I don't believe in any Religion at least not anymore.

It gives too much power to men whose ultimate goal is to use it as a tool to control and manipulate the unassuming public.

MaxInDHouse:
Perhaps this man below is right about your religion!

Cheap Blackmail.

I think my words definitely give you a hard on.

If only you would take some time off Nairaland and investigate the true origins of the religion you profess, these things would have been easy for you to understand.

MaxInDHouse:
Identify your enemy!

Cheap blackmail from MaxInDHouse the military intelligence officer!!

How does this make me his enemy?

If you actually took the time off Nairaland to do your research about the true origins of your religion, you would know that Christianity as a whole is a copy of ancient Egyptian mystery religion.

That is a FACT.

But all you know is BLACK and WHITE, and nothing in between.

Go and read about the history of your religion very well.

Go and read about the "Rosetta Stone"

What you practice as Christianity, is a cheap copy of ancient Egyptian mystery religion.

Sophyrocks:
The video is now private. It was done by YouTube. I knew this would happen because like I said earlier, Watchtower monitors social media to check what people post about them so that their freemasonry links will not be found by JWs. I have found another video but you will need to screenrecord it while it's playing so that it can be saved in your device if they eventually make this video private.

Can you kindly share the link to the other video?

elated177:
El Elohe Yahshrael!

The thought of two women or two girls or a woman and a girl having sex makes me want to puke.

Same as the thought of two men or two boys or a boy and a man having sex. It is disgusting. The demons feed on this despicable acts.

Abomination!


El Elohe Yahshrael! Hallelu YAH!

I am very sure that you watch lesbia.n porn, because what is your business with how people make love in private?

Focus on your own life and allow people to live theirs.

Very soon now you, will start telling husbands and wives not to engage in MouthAction or cunilingus because it "makes you want to puke"

Janosky:

I'm talking as a professional.
Oga, you know nah about subliminal messages and neat video editing.
I Sabi video editing Wella I no be novice for the level.

So, take note.

Just to digress, do you also do animations?

If yes, I might have a project for you.

Janosky:

I'm talking as a professional.
Oga, you know nah about subliminal messages and neat video editing.
I Sabi video editing Wella I no be novice for the level.

So, take note.

Oshey professional.

Why don't you recreate the video so we can see?

With that exact same neat editing..

Gracias

Janosky:
Oga, you are DECEIVING yourself.
There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING masonic on My brother Stephen Let's jewelry.

All the masonic ring symbols were NEVER on the wrist of any JW in that YouTube video.

Oga, go & wear goggles you need am to see clearly.
I urge you to resist the temptations of bigotry you are doing on this public forum.

Lol.

As expected - you don't disappoint.

Suit yourself then.

Janosky:
I challenge you to Proof to this public forum the law that stipulates use of jewelry is exclusive to Freemasons.

Use of "MASONIC" jewelry.

Why are you beating around the bush?

Let me guess, you didn't watch the video.. Or did you?

Janosky:

Luke 24:21 & Luke 19:11, Matthew 26:31-35, the disciples predictions also failed multiple times.

Luke 24:25, the sole reason Jesus Christ called them "foolish."
Oga, continue WAILING upandan with childish rants

Did the disciples of Jesus predict the end of the world?

Jesus said he knew neither the day nor the hour.

Why is your organization so presumptuous, that they have jumped the gun multiple times to predict the end of the world?

Is it a ploy to garner more members into your fold?

Just like what happened in 1975?