1Co 12:8 For to one [b]is given by the Spirit [/b]the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

My question: Who fills a man with the Holy Ghost or gives him the gift of tongues? Man or God? Jesus Himself said in Luke 18:27 "And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God."

While we don't know, if she was really filled or not, let's us shut our traps. If she was really filled or not, how much more does it make you a Christian. Just be glad that this young girl at least has an idea and higher chances to the understanding of God than otherwise. Leave the rest. It doesn't promote you spiritually or otherwise.

As for the question of if all SHOULD speak in tongues,  Paul was asking to make a certain point; and that's why he asked other related questions. The subject of tongues was not his point. However, Jesus, a greater than Paul said in Mark 16:17, "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;"

Do you know how many things Jesus (or even other scriptures in the Bible) said about Christians that they are not enjoying? Should that necessarily discredit what Jesus has said?

I kinda like what @wetu said. If you speak in tongues - thank God for your life. If you don't find out what it's all about and choose whether or not you want to or not,  otherwise, shut your trap! Especially if you don't understand.

It is only a fool that opens his mouth about a subject he is not completely or sufficiently informed about.

Besides, speaking in tongues is not the deciding factor with God,  so stick to what He wants and is interested in, in you. Any and every other thing is a waste of time, that is unnecessary.

@Joagbaje, my brother, you're right, but let's first help those who are still far below that level of understanding first.

@wetu, just for the record, the Bible does not say ", we can't all speak with tongues.", Paul rather asked, ", do all speak with tongues?" That's a critical difference that matters. I won't go any further, but it's important to use the right information - irrespective of the edited post (and just in light of that,  people make mistakes. So relax buddy.)

Like I said before, you're an intelligent man - world class! Your brain works for all its worth!

SirJohn:

_{what on earth makes this one think he has experienced anything more than anyone here? what a pity!!}

@papa,
One of the things about living in a world of delusion and fantasy is that most of the time you feel you are way up there and every other person is way down there. I've been right where you are and even more but was bold enough to walk away when I realized it was all delusion.
Enjoy it while it lasts bro!!

I'm really sorry about your deluded experience. . . I sure know about delusion too, the difference is that I did turn cynical. When I find I'm going in the wrong direction, I simply turn around!

Many folks I know including myself, some of them (in fact many) who are up to twice my age (maybe more) have found this and practised these things since their earlier youth - it has never stopped, changed, or decreased!

See, if you want something to work for you:
1. NEVER speak against it!
2. Believe (at the least) that it is possible, even though it may not have happened for you yet.

[center]There's hope when we believe![/center]

None of us knows everything, and have not seen and experienced everything! We all don't know and can't even claim as a lie, that we know a tithe of a tithe of a tithe of a tithe of the people in the world. If you're honest with yourself like I've found from your previous writings, you must agree with this!

(I'll assume your integrity to have been honest there) Seeing that you have that much (even if it's possibly very little) of ignorance concerning my experiences and that of many many many others, as well as how they were orchestrated,
Why would you think what I or anyone else says is true about this subject is impossible or unbelievable?!

Are things impossible and unbelievable just because your intelligent mind and its colleague on/off nairaland think it's impossible or unbelievable?! Common, I don't know you, but believe I am correct to say you have too much rank for that!

I never disbelieved ANYTHING you said, because it just MAY be one of the many things I'm ignorant of. . .and that's my problem with critics (AND I'M NOT REFERRING TO YOU OR ANYONE IN PARTICULAR), if I don't know everything, why should I think that someone else is lying?! That one thing he knows, MIGHT just be the only thing you don't know!

So please people, with deep respect in my heart for your great personalities that I even don't know half of, I would implore you to rather work with FULL AND ACCURATE knowledge rather than rumors and opinions!

As for logic, I have openhanded respect for @SirJohn from reading the graduation of your arguments. You are definitely a world class man - You have brain that works!

---

KunleOshob:

How much did it cost paul and the other apostles to preach the gospel through out the thenknown world

2 Thessalonians 3:6-10:
6 And now, dear brothers and sisters, we give you this command in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ: Stay away from all believers who live idle lives and don’t follow the tradition they received from us. 7 For you know that you ought to imitate us. We were not idle when we were with you. 8 We never accepted food from anyone without paying for it. We worked hard day and night so we would not be a burden to any of you. 9 We certainly had the right to ask you to feed us, but we wanted to give you an example to follow. 10 Even while we were with you, we gave you this command: “Those unwilling to work will not get to eat.”

2 Peter 2:3:
3 In their greed they will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. But God condemned them long ago, and their destruction will not be delayed.

@KunleOshob,
I commend you for not just talking, but searching the scriptures first. 2 Peter 2:3, is not a verse to have used to make a point, especially that you took it slightly [/i]out of context.

As for 2 Thessalonians 3:6-10, I giggled a little that you used that (not in jest though), because just like I used to be, you don't know why Paul tells them to become skilled, so they can have jobs, own businesses, get rich and be influential?! It's so there would be opportunities to have the gospel preached all over the world!

Did you know that Jesus told the apostle to go into all the world, and even after they received the Holy Spirit, they remained in Jerusalem. I would expect that after they were persecuted in Jerusalem, they would get a hint to ", go [i](rather) into all the (rest of the) world and (get to) preach the gospel", but no! These guys didn't have money until people started giving!

Do you remember Joses? Maybe not, you would probably remember him as Barnabas - Joses was originally his name. The apostle surnamed him Barnabas (which means Son of CONSOLATION). . . Why consolation?!

Because amongst ever other giving, he's was notable, and it brought much consolation to the apostles, because they could now travel out of Jerusalem and preach. Read the book of Acts until chapter 4 where this incident takes place, they didn't travel anywhere! But after 2 incidents in chapter 5, in chapter 6 - First thing, they can now employ deacons and start their first ministry arm, which really started because people were already partnering!

After Deacon Steve's issue and death in Chapter 7, in chapter 8, here comes Saul (a.k.a Paul) causing trouble for the church, well, this time when there was torment, the certainly didn't stay in Jerusalem - no! They had money! In verse 4, the bible says "Therefore they. . . went every where preaching the word." First record was Evang. (Philip) who went to Samaria - and the Pope (Peter) escorted him and rebuked Simon the sorcerer sharply for trying to insult their work with money! The revival wasn't even over when the Spirit told Philip to move to Ethiopia, Africa and leave the Pope to finish the work in Samaria. Who goes to Africa from Janzee without monéy-monosh!

And on and on, there's examples of where the brethren have given - especially to Paul who seemed to travel the most! Why do you think he could say "We never accepted food from anyone without paying for it." Paul was simply training this church - that's why he would tell them ". . .you ought to imitate us. We were not idle when we were with you."

I hope this was helpful!

Image123:

n.b.Its difficult explaining things to people who don't have it.If you had it,it would have been easier

After that comment, I don't need to respond much! Perfect sense @Image123!

SirJohn:

Chris Oyakhilome once told his flock that he usually gets unusual deposits in his bank account; he found out later that it was angels depositing the money in the said account. Not long after his tale, his members and pastors started claiming to experience the same thing. He even went further to tell them that money is a spirit, infact an ÁNGEL and that when you speak in tongues, you are sending the angel called money on an assignment

Classical brainwashing if you ask me

I ask myself some questions, If you don't believe a certain pastor, what were you doing at his church when he said such a thing?! If you found on his ministry's publication, what were you looking for there? If a member of the church was telling you - if it's not that you cared to know, why did you pay attention?! Anyway sha. . .

SirJohn:

Not that I doubt the move of the Spirit okay, but can you please tell us exactly where in Nigeria this happened and probably the name of the ministers

I don't know them by name; they were over at a church I attended in Jos when they shared the experience, plus there was one of the people who they preached to who has some little education (whatsoever), so they couldn't have lied, because he was so thrilled he joined their ministry!

SirJohn:

This is your EXPERIENCE like you rightly termed it; and I hope you know that no ones experience no matter how extraordinary can validate or invalidate Gods word. I have had similar experience and even more extraordinary ones but I didn't have to speak in tongues in any case. I'm sure there are nairalalnders too with the same story so my dear leave that matter.

While you and many other nairalanders can experience such a thing when it wants or needs to happen, some of us make it happen when we want or need!

You see young man, some of us have practiced this part of God's word enough to make it happen when we want or need! And it's not only in the area of money! Even favor!

I'm presently out of the country for a while, and the money the Lord has embarrassed me with this month alone. . . I shouldn't even mention it on nairaland. . . and it's only the second month of the year.

I can only expect that it will increase as usual!

Like I was saying about favor: 2010 is coming and I don't know if you're aware that prime tickets for the world cup matches will cost a fortune to some. . . I am already guaranteed to be in South Africa at that time and can go to any game I want, for way way much less than the cost of the tickets for foreigners. . .so it's not only money! We can also call for favor whenever we need it! That's all I did here! Ha ha!

Like I said, my first experience was in 2005. It's 2009 now, that's how long it should take to get a degree in Nigeria, so if it were the same schooling system, I've almost graduated with a BA or so. . . Anyway, by June 2007, I pulled out from the Spirit, the equivalent of 94,500 naira - again - in foreign currency! 1800% increase in 2 years! That's got to be the Holy Ghost brother!

And before anyone bothers to ask why I've not become so rich you hear about me everywhere. . . The point of this ability from God's Spirit in us is not so we enrich ourselves to deluging, but rather so we could do big things for God:

1 John 2:15
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

SirJohn:

. . .these pastors will not cease to amaze me; why does it always have to be money all the time.

God is fully aware that although the gospel is free, it is not cheap to take across the world!

Thank you sir!

Religion is man idea; spirituality is spontaneous, and I like to do spontaneous, in this place, ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!

I don't seem to be getting registered on LoveWorld360. It never accepts the answer to the question I typed in. Can anyone help?

And if you've been able to get onto the site; what's it like?!

A Christian is a Saint and a saint is a Christian.

So except there's a different one you're talking about. . . I noticed you said "catholic" saint. I would recommend a Jesus Saint. . . and here's the way: become a Christian (i.e. get born-again!) So, if you're a Christian, you're pretty much sorted - but read on to learn more about being a saint!

See, if catholics were referring to the same thing, then my apologies, but they've missed it, because sainthood can only begin while you're alive. If you're never a saint when you're alive, you can never be a saint when you're dead, because you do not belong to Christ (which you can only get started with while you're on earth)

Notice some facts about saints from the bible: And as you look through them ask yourself these two questions
1. Where the mentioned saints dead?
2. Where the mentioned saints perfect?

Acts 9:32
And it came to pass, as Peter passed throughout all quarters, he came down also to the saints [/b]which dwelt at Lydda.

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Romans 15:25
But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.
was he going to minister to the dead?! And why would you minister to people who are already perfect?!

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Romans 15:26
For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.
Saints could very well be poor! Does that make them perfect?

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Romans 15:30-32 (King James Version)
30 Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye [b]strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;
31 That I may be delivered from them that do not believe in Judaea; and that my service which I have for Jerusalem may be accepted of the saints;
Doesn't that suggest that some saints could be both violent and stubborn against the word of God? Just like some christians today!

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Ephesians 3:8
Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
. . .but he wasn't dead!!!

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Ephesians 4:12
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Saints are certainly not all perfect from this verse. . . they still need some tuning

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Revelation 8:4
And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, [b]ascended [/b]up before God out of the angel's hand.
Gee! this praying couldn't have been in heaven?! notice the prayers had to ASCEND! And It's certainly not from hell

MrCrackles:

I still think the point of the thread has not been addressed fully!

God, Jesus or pastors?

I want to believe sensible posters who know the deal will say GOD _{The supreme almighty} and not Jesus and not Pastors!

@MrCrackles,
You know this particular response despite all the stuff people have said, makes me respect something about the way you think!

First about God vs. Jesus, on THAT day (what we commonly call the jugdement day), you will not see God, and then Jesus, and then . . .

The bible talks about only ONE great throne, and Jesus will be seated upon it - "so where will God be?!", you may ask; Well, God is Spirit, Jesus "has" flesh, God will reside and operate from inside the body of Jesus (and for the critical folks, I'll give references in a moment)

God has chosen to do this because the work that Jesus did on earth was complete and perfect! The bible says and you may have commonly heard this passage:

Philippians 2
5 [/b]Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

[b]6 [/b]Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

[b]7 [/b]But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

[b]8 [/b]And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

[b]9 [/b]Wherefore [for this reason,] [b]God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 [/b]That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

[b]NOW HERE'S THE REFERENCE I EARLIER PROMISED:

Colossians 1 (King James Version)

13 [/b]Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of[b] his dear Son:

14 [/b]In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

[b]15 [/b]Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

[b]16 [/b]For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

[b]17 [/b]And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

[b]18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

19 [/b]For i[b]t pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Colossians 2 (King James Version)
9 [/b]For [b]in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

All Jesus cares about is God, and all God cares about is Jesus. However, God loves us so much and Jesus becomes common passioned, because He loves our Daddy that much!!!

So that leaves Jesus vs. Pastor: Oh please! Isn't it obvious?! - there's none! ABSOLUTELY NONE, higher than Jesus!

Now to speak on some of these accused pastors. I noticed something about one of them in particular - who happens to be my pastor (AND I WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT THIS IS MORE MY OBSERVATION THAN A DEFENSE!!!)

The way meetings are mostly structured is that worship is going on when he gets on stage, so no one is clapping, whooing, etc.

I also observed that except he has to end the service otherwise with announcements or other speeches, he would usually sneak off stage after he's instructed: "Lift your hands towards heaven; worship Him(Jesus)", against his instruction, many still have their eyes open and still clap and whoo, etc when he's leaving. . . So why would I blame him?!

I have personally not heard anyone of them instruct or even suggest that they be worshipped, but when people get freaked about their "hero" (in this case someone who brought them the gospel that gave them life), you know how far people would go, so perhaps, you shouldn't be quick to judge the pastors + the bible says ". . .jugde not!"

So, I'd rather keep my opinions to myself and honor that of Jesus ". . . Judge not; that ye be not judged!"

SirJohn:

"raba shakatalahaya, mando groshe, balaronsky latarabadoshka, eidosonshka laribonda lahate"

First of all @SirJohn you are such a hilarious and extraordinary fellow! You will certainly make excellent company for uplifting a friend when he's sad - I had a [b]VERY [/b]good laugh on that one,

The tongues of men - where people speak in another language they don't understand, but is yet intelligible to people that speak that language - certainly manifests today. This couple had to preach in a Nigerian village where few if not no one, understood english - which happened to be the only other language they could speak. The wife got up and started preaching in english; it was evident the people couldn't understand. The husband was really not feeling it - so he decided to boldly go up and speak in tongues as though he was interpreting his wife in tongues. He just trusted that the Holy Spirit would if not through words, then through expressions, explain to the people. They had no idea what they were doing, but little did this couple know that the man had been speaking the native language fluently. People got saved at that meeting!

More commonly, from some of those meetings where you talk about "mongolian-speaking" pastors, I have heard - LIVE - for myself - testimonies of real people I've met who heard the preacher talking about their situation, but we watch the video and again - just like you - we seem to hear mongolian! But that fellow already got blessed for the exact moment she was supposed to have received the word!

See the Holy Spirit has an inexplicable way He communicates individually to people. So, I'd rather say to people, tune in, than tune out - it just maybe your life's success secret in the next mongolian [/i]phrase!

I could very easily defend one pastor or the other, but I won't waste time on that, I'll just stick to the universal team of the Holy Spirit!

With the tongues of angels believe me, I am a LIVING WITNESS with COUNTLESS testimonies! It works! Many times like magic!

I like to think of it this way - using the way you like to call it: see, the same way the Holy Spirit can communicate to an [i]english-only-speaking person through the [i]mongolian [/i]the rest of us don't understand, is the same way he lets us communicate intelligibly with him through the [i]mongolian [/i]others (even ourselves) sometimes won't understand

MY FIRST EXPERIENCE:
I was at a church when the pastor gave a word of prophecy that angels (especially in the form of people we don't know) will come to us and offer to give us money for absolutely nothing. Not long after, his wife explained in another teaching that we can instruct the angels in tongues to speed up the occurence - THE TRUTH IS: You may not even know if or when you've given the instruction or not - but the Holy Spirit who loves you more than you can ever love yourself will put the accurate [i]mongolian [/i]words that mean exactly that - AT THE RIGHT TIME - in your mouth.

And this is why we are encouraged with every opportunity we have, to speak in tongues, you never know when the words buried in your spirit - at a particular moment - are for you!

Anyway, I did speak in tongues as much as possible that week - THE VERY NEXT SUNDAY - I was at a completely different church where people are against what the previous church believe - after church, some brother shows up (he's a deacon I learnt), and till today can't explain it. He walks up to me and put the equivalent of 5,250 naira in foreign currency in my hands and says ", 'THEY' said I should give you!" He still doesn't know who "they" are? I don't know who "they" are and no one can still explain otherwise who "they" are. 5250 naira in 2005!

This SAME - EXACT - incident took place MORE THAN ONCE!

THIS IS ONLY ONE! OUT OF MANY MANY MANY LIVE EXPERIENCES OF MINE!

See, God wants us to experience EVERY good thing His word has for us and more! I just believe what I find it in the word - because, it's not common that you receive what you don't believe - so I simply believe God and it works for me - you should try it sometime; I'd love to hear of how it works for you too!

Keep well my friend!

Pélé

A_K_O:

K, lets bring this away from the crusade ground and into the wider perspective. An igbo guy badly needs a male child because he is the heir apparent to the throne; he has been waiting for say seven years. He eventually goes to babalawo (which doctor) and within three months wife concieves and delivers safely. Few sundays later he gets up in church to share the 'testimony of a miracle child after 7 years'. Is that miracle from God? Think and be honest. Are ALL miracles therefore from God?
Please don't suggest that such things don't happen because that would be too naiive.

@A_K_O, you really don't think when you talk, do you?! Because you were the one who spoke about a witch doctor (devil's advocate on earth - someone may want to call them) giving a couple a child. . . so when I say such a thing is not of God (because I don't know Him to work with witch doctors), you start another talk like you didn't start it;

Anyway, it's because you fellows don't know that man is a spirit that has a soul and lives in a body, then you'll understand how that giving birth to a child was made a natural process by God when he said ". . .be fruitful and multiply. . ." and that's why a demon can interrupt the natural and cause a woman to be barren, otherwise, if God had to be working a "miracle" every time a child is born rather than it being a natural process, then the devil shouldn't be able to stop it! Plus if God is doesn't fornication and adultery, why should he allow a baby to be born out of it?! So giving birth was made natural in that statement ". . .be fruitful and multiply. . .". Let me know what y'all think!

Ciao

SysUser:

. . .our job as Christians is to allow the Holy Spirit divide the word of Truth for us , then exhort our fellow brethren and then keep our peace if our fellow brethren refuse to see it that way. We can only pray that each and every one of us would win a crown of glory in at the end of the day.
Let us understand that on this journey we at one time also had things we believed but which we later realized were not biblical.
So 4Him don't let your heart be troubled, its just a forum.

True that! It's just a forum, what if we get to heaven tomorrow and God says all of us were wrong?! It'll be quite a sight! I don't say that everything I say and Pastor Chris says is definitely right; because I don't know myself which is right or wrong, but he's been given to me by the Holy Spirit for me to trust his leadership and I do, so don't hate! Take everything I say here as an opinion based on how I have understood it! Think about it, if Pastor shows up here, he could even say some of the things I've said are wrong, as I also didn't understand them clearly. . . So what keeps me going - the arguing - not the fights it brings, but if words are not forced out of people, how do the inquisitive learn?! I learn from all of you - I won't lie, there's just some things I surely won't take in at all, based on what my teacher (inside) says is good or not for me!

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A_K_O:

Happy Sunday.

Their fruits, not their works. The fruits of the Spirit= love, joy, peace, , , , ,

Well, happy sunday to you too, Fruits there don't only mean the fruits of the spirit; remember that Jesus was talking to men who hadn't received the Holy Spirit. Plus if it was only people who were filled with the Spirit, how do we know by what "fruits" to discern Christians who are not filled with the Spirit yet (but are born again)

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A_K_O:

Following your pattern of thinking, that shuld mean that since I am not (supposedly) performing miracles; 'bringing forth fruit', I am going to hell pretty sonn, right? And over 90% of the body of Christ and pastors etc are going dowwwn too right? Again I say 'fruits' refers to fruits of the Spirit not works or miracles or 'miracles'.

@A_K_O, I notice you're not fond of reading properly before you respond - who exactly said those who don't perform miracles go to hell?! And if you believe what you just said up there - where amongst the (at least listed) fruits of the spirit is there "miracles"?

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A_K_O:

quotable quotes. I would prefer that you analyse the two words using the original literal Hebrew/Greek/whatever language it was. Or did you? Besides that was a personal attack, be honest.

Dude! What is the matter with you?! Did you read what I was saying there at all or have you just lost it!?
Ok, what if I was the one that made the statement and it was not a quote, would you talk about quotable quotes?!
That's not the point behind that statement. If you noticed, the mention of Pharisees had nothing to do with what we'd been talking about. (I also made mention of the Saducees while they were not even in the passage or discussion!) I just decided to add some flavour to the forum!

Geez! If you really behave like this many people will not like to hold conversations with you - you take things way out of context!
That is surely not the literal meaning of Pharisees and Saducees, it just happens to also be characteristic of them in stories about them in the bible!

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A_K_O:


I didn't ask for no doctors. Most of Jesus' miracles, if not all were done in broad day light, right in front of everyone. Not to say that God is dogmatic and won't do anything in private (because he always does!!!). We're supposed to be doing the greater works of Jesus. Moreover, there are unbelievers out there who won't believe except they see. So I'm more sypathetic for them. These things used to happen in the early crusades, the Asuza street revival and stuff like that. We need more of that today. They equal the works of Jesus and we are supposed to be doing greater. And I'm referring to the body of Christ in its totality not just Pastor Chris.

Listen, young man, you should read/listen before you talk; the bible records that Jesus sent people to the high priest for proof that they've been healed! Whether or not the miracles were done inside or outside! And talking about open air miracles, Pastor heals at crusades with millions, what's not "broad day light" about that!? And talking about "seeing is believing", look what Jesus said to Thomas - Joh 20:29 ". . . blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. . ." What's the world's business the guy who's healed on tv?! He's healed whether you like it or not, so why are you bothering yourself about a proof? The guy has proof! You don't! And still you are worse off, because he believes and his faith is strengthened; yours is still there battling with the senses whether or not it is real - is that not walking according to the senses?!

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A_K_O:

K, lets bring this away from the crusade ground and into the wider perspective. An igbo guy badly needs a male child because he is the heir apparent to the throne; he has been waiting for say seven years. He eventually goes to babalawo (which doctor) and within three months wife concieves and delivers safely. Few sundays later he gets up in church to share the 'testimony of a miracle child after 7 years'. Is that miracle from God? Think and be honest. Are ALL miracles therefore from God?
Please don't suggest that such things don't happen because that would be too naiive.

That is NOT a testimony - That igbo guy is simply a liar! And so that's not a miracle - you see why I said "every good and perfect gift"?! That child was given to them by the devil, do you think that child will grow up to give them peace?! That's not a miracle. A miracle is the Supernatural intervention of God is the physical! That was not GOD, that was the devil!

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A_K_O:

P.S. you ever heard the story of the guy that was blind from birth and got his healing in a crusade and when asked the color of the Pastors tie he identified it accurately. TRUE STORY!!!! How do you reconcile that? Or the guy that walks up to the podiom after receiving his 'miracle', and the pastor identifies him (off stage) as one of the houseboys that was just fine the previous day. Please do not assume that these stories are too outrageous to be true, that would also be naive. We are in the endtimes.

That is the foolishness of carnality speaking! Is the God that healed him not able to give him knowledge as HE pleases!?
I'm so so so so grateful to God for His infinite wisdom! He knew such stories would come up and so He put one we could refer to in the scriptures!

Mar 8:22 And he cometh to Bethsaida: and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him.
Mar 8:23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw aught.
Mar 8:24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
Mar 8:25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

HOW DID THE BLIND MAN KNOW WHAT TREES LOOKED LIKE - See, we rationalize the doings of God with our minds that's why we don't get as much results from the same simple prayers that men of old prayed or the same scriptures they read and quote! - Was that not the same thing Sarah did?! I dare say that if that story was not in the bible, you'll not believe that a 90 year old woman can still give birth for a miracle! EVEN SARAH, the WIFE OF THE FATHER OF FAITH!!! Laughed when GOD ALMIGHTY HIMSELF (while visiting at Abraham's) said she'll be pregnant!

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A_K_O:

I can only verify God's voice by the WORD and their FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT, not by the number of miracles.

Again, another evidence that you didn't read properly before you replied! Who said number of miracles?!
I was talking about God's Voice by the mouth of His prophet! But you would rather see what you want than what is actually there huh?!

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A_K_O:

I do not dispute the fact that Jesus is alive.

Well, good for you! You had better!

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A_K_O:

Simple!, by FAITH, for it is the evidence of things NOT seen.

Oh! What an excellent answer! So why can't you apply it with the Voice of God through a man of God's mouth!?

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A_K_O:

I was asked to ignore this, I'm so sorry I didnt!!! 1.I think I sense the spirit/motive behind the joke. 2. After Jesus cast devils out of the guy by the sea where the swine was, he asked Him to go tell his family nd friends or something like that, riight? Or was it 'BBC' he asked him to go to? There are many genuine people underground, know that. There is a time and a season for everything under the sun, besides the pride factor.

Why you would choose to reply to a joke without any negative motive - I don't understand, but it's alright, you have a right to your opinion on matters isnt it!?
This is another thing you have taken out of context - I really hope that you don't do that with the bible!

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A_K_O:

1. It's the power of God, be it the healing, delivering, saving, etc that gets the job done, not the angels of the individual through whom it was done. This power/answer could be transported by angels though. Please study the passage below.
Daniel 10:
2In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks. , mourning there means fasting in the orginal language

3I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.
5Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz:
6His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.
^{I believe this description fits an angel.} Furthermore,
12Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come ^{(where do you think he came from?)} for thy words.

13But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael ^{(remember angel Michael, Gabriel, ?)}, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

14Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.

2. Could you please prove that I am not doing the greater works of Jesus? Is it because I'm coming to South Africa soon but I ain't having a crusade? (honestly)
Shalom.

Ha ha ha! That's a really good closing, although I neither saw how that passage is connected nor how it answers the question!

God bless you bro! Good talking with you again!

Perhaps, you should send me your email address, so I can give you my number; so you let me know when you get to RSA, we could meet, have a nice chat and I could show a few cool places around. Be good!

even Moses wasn't performing a miracle there! That was a sign. Signs are not for believers, they're for unbelievers. Try again.

As I said to @bish2001, we didn't invent this, we met it! I'm glad God won't deceive us and neither can the enemy, "lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices"

@Backslider, some patience & forgiveness will present you both matured and literate ok! So relax and smile! Jesus loves you bro!

Man of God (@bish2001), I think you may have gone a little over the edge by calling someone you don't know illiterate; he's unguarded statements on a forum (or at least not in person) shouldn't be everything we may use to determine what manner of person he is;

You see. . ., the internet is quite deceptive and many of us don't know it: Before I left Nigeria for South Africa, I got a young lady in Lagos to fall in love with me! She's even older than me! But I told her I was in the US, my name was James, I was coming to Nigeria soon to have a family meeting and then will I return to the states; I told her my cousin will call her that night. I called her and claimed I was the cousin (changed my voice); then I called her a few days later saying I was me (James)! We spoke for HOURS! But that's not my name, I've not been to the US yet, I don't think I have a cousin with the name I told her; but I hurt the young lady! I'm really sorry about it, because it's not funny to hurt someone and is not a great thing to be hurt by people we don't even know (or see!), but my life has changed since then - Praise God!

But I said all that to say this, I may sound so spiritual and christian in a chat room, but I'm not be living the greatest Christian life you'd have ever known! And that's why I can look unto Jesus to perfect me everyday, and the more I need this perfection, the more I look into the Word, watch Pastor's (and other ministers') DVDs, read their books and listen to tapes; that's why we do all that stuff - like brother @donnie said to get The Truth - Jesus said He is! The Truth about who we really are, what we have and how to use it!

I know @Backslider has quite an understanding in relation to what we are being taught, but that's how we met the world - with differences - we didn't invent it! I love you as well!

Oh by the way, @Backslider, If at all you're really illiterate, the bible is the best book to read! Do you know of a man named Smith Wigglesworth, wasn't much literate too, but the ONLY book he ever read was the bible! Pastor Chris sometimes makes reference to him - He's a great and mighty man of God!!! So you're on the right path with studying the bible.

God bless you and . . . Oop, I've got food on fire, got to go! Love Y'all!

Wordsmith:

@ Papa,
you said something about HERO-yada-yada . . . would you Hero worship the pastor if he didn't do miracles?

Papa:
. . . we hero everyone responsible for what is done

Like @donnie said to you, look again at my post, I didn't say we hero worship, I said we hero - FINISH!

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donnie:

. . .As a matter of fact, i had already joined Christ Embassy, was born again and recieved the Holy Ghost ever before i saw pastor Chris perform any miracle. I wasnt sick, needed no money because my folks werent broke; was just searching for truth. Rather, when we share the gospel, we help others recieve miracles from God.

Same here @donnie, my folks weren't broke, praise God! I needed the truth, I thought there was more liberty in Christ to live in 24/7 Joy, rather than "ups and downs"; I was born again, had received the Holy Spirit, before I ever even knew there was a Christ Embassy. God's relocating me to Christ Embassy was simply to tell me what I had received and how to use it! And I'm grateful to God for all that; and nonetheless, if I would have needed to get born again, again, I would do it at Christ Embassy, but that's not possible and I'm glad Christ did it, ONCE AND FOR ALL (TIME)!

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A_K_O:
Papa how was fellowship? What did you learn, u mind sharing?

Well, fellowship was as usual fantastic and glorious, people got saved, some others filled with the Holy Ghost and talking in tongues. . . One refused to speak in tongues, but after more teaching, she got it and received. Another fellow wanted to get born again, again, thinking his sins had wiped away the work of Jesus, but we taught him the truth. And praise God, he went home rejoicing! I learnt that we have an excellent Spirit at work in us and that we are responsible for ". . . showing forth the praises (glory - reason for men to give honor to God) of Him that birthed us into His marvelous light!"

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A_K_O:

God is not the author of all miracles. The devil puts cancer, deformities etc in people and so he who puts it there knows how well to remove it. In addition, the bible speaks about this in two instances i remember: the sorcerer guy in Acts, and Jesus warned about false prophets and so on. Again I do not adress this to Pastor Chris but I think it is a lesson that we must all consider. The bible calls the devil a liar and the father of lies/liars (can't rememba). One of the major tools of the enemy in this endtime is deception. The devil is way too smart to show up as a 'red beast with a pointed butt and a thre-pronged fork in one hand'. He uses the most seemingly authentic things; things that are actually fabricates of the original. That is the reason why i am ALWAYS VERY CAREFUL when it comes to Pastors that do miracles, most of which we, the T.V audience cannot prove. I am really believing God that REAL miracles (not to say that all the ones on TV are fake) begin to happen in and through ordinary, willing and Faith-full christians constantly.

My dear friend, God IS the author of ALL miracles! Otherwise why does the bible say "Every good and perfect gift comes from God"?! The devil can't perform miracles; he may deceive you so you don't see that the disease is still there and make you think you're healed. I've noticed people who come to Pastor Chris and say they saw something go out of their bodies, Pastor won't even say a word about that and then he'll cast out the devil, why because the devil as you rightly tried to say is a liar and the father of lies! He is the one who speaks out of demon possessed people saying things like "I was the one who killed your wife", but he's lying, he would only create enmity between the one casting out devils and the possessed from his lie! That's why it's wrong to listen to what demon possessed people say while you're casting out devils, because that devil can only lie! He CAN NOT tell the truth - It's just NOT possible, Jesus said it's his language!

Secondly, here's your Acts-sorcerer story, it doesn't connect with the topic!

Act 13:6 And when they had gone through the isle unto Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew, whose name was Barjesus:
Act 13:7 Which was with the deputy of the country, Sergius Paulus, a prudent man; who called for Barnabas and Saul, and desired to hear the word of God.
Act 13:8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith.
Act 13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,
Act 13:10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?
Act 13:11 And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand.
Act 13:12 Then the deputy, when he saw what was done, believed, being astonished at the doctrine of the Lord.

Thirdly, here's one of the things Jesus said:

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree CANNOT bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

First, "Ye shall know them by their fruits", what fruits? If the fruits be good, the tree must indeed be good!
Then, I want you to notice this is NOT where He said ". . .in my Name they shall cast out devils!" (as I just wrote this I felt stirred in my spirit, because that's reserved for me - Glory!!!)
Why can't they use His Name?! Because he said

Mat 12:24 But when the Pharisees [/i]heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
Mat 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
Mat 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
Mat 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Mat 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
Mat 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

I italicized the "Pharisees" there 'because I heard someone call them the "Far to sees"; and the Saducees, the "Sad to sees" Too far and too sad to see good things (opening of blind eyes, unstopping of deaf ears, a 3.5 million man gathering for Jesus!? Where hundreds of thousands gave their lives to Jesus!? Common! That's something good!) We shouldn't be that way brethren! Why not praise good things!

And just for a moment think on these verses

Luk 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

All men, just can't like a true prophet; and guess what, Jesus said he (a true prophet) will be first rejected in his on country!

Mat 13:57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.

We don't hear of such strange stories and statements about Pastor Chris in South Africa?! Did you know that it was after the first time that Pastor set foot on the soil of South Africa that a lot changed?! Initially, you could drive to the mall and count the number of cars; but now. . .?! Don't even try! That's the presence of a prophet! Pastor's presence brought something new to South Africa and we glorify God, because, [i]When God wants to save a nation, He sends a prophet! (Moses, Gideon, Joshua, Samson, Deborah, JESUS!!!)

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A_K_O:

. . .That is the reason why i am ALWAYS VERY CAREFUL when it comes to Pastors that do miracles, most of which we, the T.V audience cannot prove. I am really believing God that REAL miracles (not to say that all the ones on TV are fake) begin to happen in and through ordinary, willing and Faith-full christians constantly.

You just look from what you wrote here how that many Christians have been taught to live so carnally today! In the bible days, when EVEN JESUS (or the disciples) healed people, he asked them to go and show themselves to the PRIEST to prove they were cleansed! Have you ever thought: "Why didn't he send them to doctors, like brother Luke - the doctor!?" Because when a man of God says you're healed - it is so! He's not speaking his words, he's saying what the Lord has shown him through the Spirit! But today, we are looking to doctors to PROVE the works of GOD?! How Carnal! How is that not walking according to the flesh?! How is this not willful rebellion against God's voice. Haven't we realized that a miracle is a Proof in itself that Jesus is still alive today! How can you ask for proof to a proof?! By what parameters do you prove that?! Why don't you give me a spiritual proof that your doctors drugs really healed you! Like Pastor would say, "When you need a miracle, you will believe!"
What non-sense!!! For how long will the church allow this to continue - But Thanks be unto God, that's why me and you can hear such precious words, so that we change the situation! Hallelujah!

I hope you didn't misunderstand my tone, back there - that was just righteous indignation!

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A_K_O:

I believe that a christian should not see his/her Pastor as the primary source of revelation knowledge. This type of reliance is what has given birth to a lot of lazy christians (myself sometimes inclusive), who refuse to STUDY the word because they know "Pastor wil break it down anyway". It is also what has given rise to some of these so-called "Quotable quotes"; man using human wisdom to interprete scripture which is not only futile but causes people to cross that thin line between the Real and the deceptive like I mentioned earlier.

If that was to Christ Embassy members, then you shouldn't have said it, 'because interestingly no matter how much Pastor breaks it down, he would say ". . .study it for yourselves and you will see!" (is that right Christ Embassy members?!) But all together on that segment @A_K_O, I think you're still wrong, your saviour, bible AND pastor should be your primary source and then you can listen to other ministers - THAT SAY THE SAME THINGS - as you pastor(s).
And this is why it's good to know who you're listening to! The bible says

2Th 3:7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;
2Th 3:9 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.
Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Why is YOUR (God's anointed) pastor's leadership important, just take a look at what God said to Moses:

Exo 4:14 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Moses, and he said, Is not Aaron the Levite thy brother? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold, he cometh forth to meet thee: and when he seeth thee, he will be glad in his heart.
Exo 4:15 And thou shalt speak unto him, and put words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do.
Exo 4:16 And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him in stead of God.

And I love that important question: "How do you say you hear and do the words of a God you can't see, when you don't do the simple ones of the one He sent to you, that you can see?!"

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A_K_O:

This one is a bit . The Ministry of angels is largely misunderstood in the church today ( no personal attack intended). Firstly, lets look at good ol' Psalm 91, the 11th verse: "He will give His angels [especial] charge over you to accompany and defend and preserve you in all your ways [of obedience and service] {AMPLIFIED} It is crucial to note that the fulfillment for this and every other promise in the chapter is dependent on upon one's meeting exactly the conditions of the first two verses which are (in a nutshell): 1. Dwell in the secret place of the Most High {thereby abiding under His shadow}. 2. Say of the Lord that He is your refuge and fortress, 3. Trust in Him.

If Pastor Chris and myself are meeting these conditions, we enjoy the same level of angelic divine protection.

Furthermore, Hebrews 1:14 says: Are not all ministering spirits (servants) sent out in the service of God {for the assistance} of those who are to inherit salvation? {AMP} I am one!!!

Angels respond to the authority of Jesus' name exercised through a believer. But this authority may not necessarily translate to the outward manifestation of miracles. I think God has different times for different people to manifest his power outwardly, e.g a Pastor who is a faith person but has a problem with pride. God knows that that infirmity could lead to destruction if they start manifesting miracles. So throught the Holy Spirit, He begins to work on/break that Pastor's pride so that he can then manifest. Until then, no miracles, does't mean He isn't exercising authority.



_{, for the record this is my longest post ever!!!}

Let's start here, from your Psalm 91:3
if you trust Jesus enough, why don't you go carry your own loudspeaker to preach about Him and cast out devils and expect them to go!? The one who is already doing it sure trusts Him to perform more than you do - for a reason. If there's more trust, I would expect from YOUR OWN judgement, that the more the condition is fulfilled the more results should be expected!

And oh how excellent that you say this: "Angels respond to the authority of Jesus' name exercised through a believer", but let's ask ourselves a question, will they respond to your authority more than you respond to the authority in the Name of Jesus!? You surely don't respond to it that much, otherwise we should have read of you in the newspapers as one of the greatest users of that authority in healing the sick and casting out devils too! Or are you battling with pride?!

Ok that was just for my laughing pleasure! Ignore that question!

What about this?
If pastor Chris is getting all those results, by his angels ministering to people in places that he's not, why are yours not doing so, since it's the same Jesus's Name!?

Oh, and that was my longest post too - I think!

.

bish2001:

@backslider,
Dnt be offended by this post but honestly i doubt your level of literacy. . .

@bish2001, I've told you to leave this @Backslider guy alone, can't you tell a lot from his name yet?!

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bish2001:

@away4real (hope i got it right)
The emergence of the internet and other forms of communication makes it easier to 'decorate' the church even faster. By sharing with people like you on this forum, i am spreading His gospel. You might not agree to all i say but i trust when and if you do your bible study, it will all become clearer.
I have every right to call my pastor daddy or my father because he has deposited a lot in my life. If you went to a boarding school did you never have a god-father? So those it mean he was a god and a father to you. Man, you lot should stop hating ehhn. Give me what you think my pastor does that is not biblical, if not hold your peace.
And for being proud, i think i should be asking you the same; you know nothing yet you are attacking a man of God. Did you send Him or has God appointed you to be a church supervisor

Not just that, Paul said

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

He gave birth to this church; he didn't just train some outsiders, he raised his own children, that's why he could talk to them (or rebuke them rather) the way he did for example in chapter 3; so again Pastor Chris is my Daddy, otherwise what are people doing around with a statement such as "Spiritual FATHER"?

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A_K_O:

Hmmn Pastor Chris, I've always been looking for a thread like this.

First I must say that I love the following about the church: (1. The backdrop of the pulpit; unique, '21st centurish' and dynamic. 2.) The quality of the video recordings and the post production effort. 3.) The music, world-class.

God definately is the ultimate judge. But I just have a few reservations against this man that I think I shld spit:

1. The atmosphere on this thread and on his programmes makes one believe that the ministry revolves around him, not around Jesus. They would say "Pastor Chris, Worth Hearing", "Night of Bliss with Pastor Chris, " etc. I believe that no 'man of God' shld take credit for anything that happens in their ministry. Now I know that all the members of 'Daddy's church will attack me. You guys must just be careful not to Hero-worship any human being. Trust me, I know what it's all about, I just left a church where sthing like that is being done.

@A_K_O, our vision is taking the divine presence of God to the peoples of the earth, when that program comes, the sick guy on the bed doesn't want to know that he's going to meet with some dude called A_K_O! Even if he has Jesus! (". . .as long as he's still a child. . ." in the things of the Spirit according to Gal. 4: 1) Except of course he's grown and has been known to DO THINGS! - Miracles! That fellow's looking for someone who has some power he can get from to heal himself or get healed! Jesus is the main source of everything and that's why Pastor teaches about Him - FIRST! In atmosphere for miracles, There's first teaching about The Healer, and then testimonies to strengthen the faith of the afflicted and let him know his in the right place of opportunity for his healing, and then together with Pastor, we worship and he speaks and remind us of various things the Holy Spirit wants us to remember and then as we worship, people get healed, for some, he has to minister without laying hands, for others he has to lay hands and so on and so forth so. . . The Lord Jesus is how we do it! And I keep wondering if people think and ask themselves "how do this people have CONSISTENT miracles and win in life, without Jesus" Isn't your God a just God?! See, because we have the Lord, we can ALWAYS win! That doesn't mean those that don't win don't have the Lord with and in them; it's how much of him you know by revelation which comes by hearing the "Worth Hearing" words! Pastor Chris says "Your revelation is your limitation"; you can only do as much as you know is possible!

And really, "Worth Hearing" shouldn't be your problem, if his words have really impacted your life, they'll be worth hearing, plus, the man's words have been found to be God's words - Words of power, words that come to pass; if God has placed his words in You and I KNOW and find it to be true, Gee! I would think you're also worth hearing, but are You known for that?!


Well, we hero everyone responsible for what is done. First we Hero - the main guy! The doer of the work - the glory of the Father - The Carrier of the Power and presence of God - The Holy Ghost who we also know as Jesus! Then we start heroing those whom he used WHO! (before anyone shouts at me) yielded themselves to be used (we call them partners and workers), because God wouldn't have forced them! He says "Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years."

(I hope that wasn't attacking!)

A_K_O:

2. I totally agree with the National Broadcasting Corporation's decision some years back to ban the miracle programmes cause basically because they cannot be proven on TV. What stops me from bringing my house boy and promising him an extra tip at the end of the month if he claims to be healed on international TV? I've never been to any of the crusades and don't intend to go for any but I'm still believing God for the day that a stump will become an arm on live TV; NBC would'nt have mouth then.

Well, I won't say you shouldn't go for one of the programs - you really should - you may be that one God will use to make the world of people believe that this is one of His major outlets and servants for today - when you actually see and really get FREAKED OUT! seeing a bed-ridden fellow you knew get up! Some have actually seen, but because they just won't "Go into all the world and preach (annouce) that gospel, " people don't know the truth.

(I hope that wasn't attacking!)

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A_K_O:
3. Sometime in 2006, mumsy is on her way to SA at the airport. Then she sees these 'Men in Black', black shoes, suits, shades(indoors), etc in motion, encircling an equally serious-faced Pastor Chris. There are as many angels given charge over me as there are angels given charge over him. Why he 'security'. He obviously needs to move with an entourage, I know that, but must they encircle him, making him completely inaccessible to a 'huge fan'?

First, You see the issue from your own words?! How won't people say these strange things when you keep saying he has "FANS!". We are his children, not fans (talking about those of us who understand the truth)

And then, my dear, you don't have the same type of angels as the man of God! Angels submit to authority! A man whose got so much authority to cast out instantly - in fact with one word?! common, you sure aren't there yet are you?! Otherwise, I'd love to also partner with your ministry too! Spread the word, heal people and stuff. . .

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A_K_O:
4. This one is not only for Pastor Chris. What is the biblical significance of the whole 'Pastor blows, person falls (whether they want to or not), usher catches, people shout? Is there any such pattern in the bible? After people got their healings/deliverances, did Jesus 'blow them away' to prove that the anointing was present? Please tell me oh.

Well, Jesus did this with His disciples - Just as information - Pastor Chris really didn't like to do that earlier in the ministry. The Lord would say to do so, but he would always reply, "I don't like to do what I didn't see Jesus do", and until the Lord showed him where and how that Jesus did the same thing. And if you notice, he doesn't do it with everyone; he does it as instructed by the Holy Ghost. I urge you to watch "atmosphere for miracles" sometime and notice how that he's delayed to minister to some people, and that's because he's waiting for instruction - People never know, that's why he can hold on to some of them and sing for the next 3 minutes patiently waiting to hear from The Master. Pastor is amazing; Reverend Ken (his brother) once said "Pastor is so patient; I've never seen a patient man like that man; that would wait for God no matter how long it takes, you can go ahead, but when he hears from God! You will need special angels to catch up!"

But I must say @A_K_O, You show willingness to learn, and that's a great spirit - it's only those that want that get! God give you more and more revelation and understanding in the knowledge of Him. I love you so much bro, God Bless you!!!

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bish2001:

@A K O
Thanks for your post. Firstly, nobody hero worships pastor Chris. We truly love Him because He has deposited so much in us. He's taught us that we don't need to call our pastors to pray 4 us in every situation; we have got what is needed to do same. i have put it to work and time without number, it has produced results, so why change a winning formula which is consistent with the bible. . .My dear, there are a lot of things i have seen in church that makes me stake my neck for this ministry: so much so that even if Pastor Chris decides not to head it again, i wouldn't leave.
I sincerely understand all your points and i can categorically tell you that i used to be a bigger skeptic than some of the people who have posted here but through the years i have witnessed so much that i think it would be fool-hardy not to recognize the hand of God on this ministry.

@bish2001, why! Why did you steal my words there man! That's me you're talking about! I can't leave this ministry! Where will I go?! Reverend Ken said at the IPPC ", after all I have received in this ministry, it is HARD for anyone else to preside over me, because the revelation I carry is explosive!"

again @A_K_O, I hope you got answers?! Feel free to ask some more, 'because that's how we all learnt and understood stuff!

@away4real and @4Him, you fellows are interesting, we love you so much too! See, we love Jesus and adore and worship Him. If you don't understand why we do what we do after all explanations and teaching, I love what Pastor Chris said on "Maintaining a Perfect Heart" he says "brother, . . . that question is too high for you, leave it alone!"

Gee! It's been a long post, aight I'm off to fellowship. God bless you all and God bless nairaland!

@Backslider, Oro ré 'nfé adua!

bish2001:

@Backslider,
You seem to know everything and nothing at all. . .

Ha Ha ha - like really - Ha ha ha!

bish2001:

. . .Please fellow brethren, Christ Embassy or not, do research before posting. If you do not know, ask, because i can see why many Churches are pastored by baby christians. Some part of the bible was written in Greek so what is wrong in researching the original manuscript and say what it was meant to say. Well, i rest my case and hope you have learnt a bit from this. Remain blessed.

Yes Sir!

@4Him and @Backslider,
Pastor Chris would say "The church is NOT for perfect people; the church is for PERFECT[b]ING[/b] people" And that's where the word 'decoration' comes in! Got it!?

Backslider:

If you read your bible very well and you have not been given to the demon that was released upon Ahab then you will know that the church you are decorating is not the same church Jesus died for.

4Him:
. . . If you knew u'd be aware that Christ is coming NOT for a physical building but for u and me. Decorate your lives first with Holiness before u start putting balloons on the walls of your local church.

@4Him, your ignorance has announced its presence. You know what - like @bish2001 said, when you get to that level of understanding, you can come home and we'll communicate at the same level - ok?
Dude! What is a church?! - is it not the body of Christ?!
Don't be quick to judge people when you're not sure what they're talking about. The Master said ". . .Judge righteous judgements. . ."

What else did you think he was talking about, See, that's how we know that many of you non-Christ Embassy people don't understand us, yet you just keep on with this - "we are so terrible mentality"

And that's where I get concerned about many Christians, how can you judge a person you don't know?! Without full, true and accurate knowledge of that person and a clear understanding of his language (NOT his words!). The words may be the wrong ones, but read in between the lines, what's his language? You see what I mean by non-Christ Embassy people misunderstand us? You are too quick to think we mean the negative thoughts you're having . . .why?! really, sit down; put your right hand on your chest and ask yourself WHY AM I LIKE THIS?!

Backslider:

If you read your bible very well and you have not been given to the demon that was released upon Ahab then you will know that the church you are decorating is not the same church Jesus died for. The den of thieves Hip Hop Churches Sensationalist Churches where we all feel each other.

The Churches that sex is used to bring people to a demon god. Not the Church where evil is allowed and perpetuated. A place when people are give more power to continue in sin.

Honestly, this one - na you sabi o! It is sad, but do you mean, you can't say ". . . I feel you . . ." to any christian at all - that you have a common understanding about the Lord?! Geez! Then, you should check your life really - because all truth is parallel. Really, I think this is where someone should be asking you what church you attend and if there are other members there or it's only you

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@bish2001 PLEASE DON'T REPLY THAT LAST POST - YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS FELLOW'S MIND - PLEASE DON'T CAST YOUR PRECIOUS PEARLS HERE!

@bish2001,

You're really a true product of daddy!
Love you man!

Papa.

NB: You didn't loose me, I just wonder what your post was following so I could follow the gist - but it's ok. I feel you!

well, lovely post @bish2001, many of us here are also BLW people . . . I've just been trying to put together . . . what's your post a response to?

My God! @donnie,
That's a complete prayer! You're a real Christ Embassy member.

Yes! South Africa's gearing up for another big hit!
. . . And you know, Pastor Ose is on some other tip.
Publicity is insurmountable - Pastors and coordinators have
dropped their suits for the Night of bliss t-shirts and caps!

The only way you couldn't have known would be if you weren't
in South Africa - I tell you!

Walk into any Christ Embassy church and just "by mistake" mention
28^th of may, you'll not be able to control people - The expectation is just something else!
So watch out! Of all the things on the planet, the worst thing to miss out on will be the testimonies!

And @Olrotimi,
South Africa's not having a revival. We're alive! We don't need to be revived!
It's a night of bliss - a crusade program;
A revival could be what happened in 2006 at easter in Nigeria.

Good Lord! It's been a while Nairaland!
Well, @coolfunke I understand fully well what you're living with.
Pastor once said "Relax, It's a matter of time. . . "

@Millena, that is such a good and comprehensive explaination. Thank you and Well done! Happy New Year!

When you read "Christian" communion there let me remind you that it doesn't refer to information from all churches. The world generalises using the catholic church for such matters. And please no offensiveness intended to any catholic person.

Don't get me wrong @doyenn I am simply saying:

"All things are legitimate [permissible--and we are free to do anything we please], but not all things are helpful (expedient, profitable, and wholesome). All things are legitimate, but not all things are constructive [to character] and edifying [to spiritual life]."

**NOTE: I'm not a smoker and I'm not telling anyone to smoke!

What I simply aim to achieve is ". . .seek the welfare of [my] neighbor].

doyenn:

It is a sin to smoke . . . Anything that inhibit normal growth of your body and you're engage in such act willingly is a sin.

@doyenn, once again I need to say something about your post. I would not recommend you determine for anyone what sin is.
In the new testament sin is personal. What is a sin to you might not be a sin to me. That's why I never said in any of my posts that smoking is a sin. (I do not smoke). I just indicated that I do not support it.

Let me reveal it to you:
1 John 3:4 says "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."
But in Romans 10:4: The bible says "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

"Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression." Romans 4:15
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There is however something that God calls sin for every man!!!

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Let's then define sin from the bible:
Romans 14:23 "And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for WHATSOEVER IS NOT OF FAITH IS SIN."
And that my friend is the definition of sin in the new testament.

I know you may be asking "does that mean that . . .thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not kill. . . and the likes are no longer of effects?

Emphatically, yes!

"So what will God call sin for me?" - My answer is simply this: "Ask the Holy Spirit who lives in you" When something bothers your mind, the safest thing to do is not to do that thing. It indicates that the Holy Spirit doesn't want you going down that road. That's just an indication. There are times when you will hear Him speak too(because you were listening).

But check this out what Paul says in 1 Timothy 1:8 & 9 "But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; {even after he said the law was ended by Christ} Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,. . ." and then if you're looking at the multitude of sins he lists after, take note that they do not refer to the man who's born-again.

Why?

Because the same person who said ". . .for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,. . ." having the same revelation, said in "And such WERE [/b]some of you: [b]BUT ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." in 1 Corinthians 6:11

No wonder He said "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not." 1 Corinthians 10:23.

Look at the way other versions put it "Looking at it one way, you could say, "Anything goes. Because of God's immense generosity and grace, we don't have to dissect and scrutinize every action to see if it will pass muster." But the point is not to just get by. We want to live well, but our foremost efforts should be to help others live well." <The Message>

"Everything is permissible"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"—but not everything is constructive.

24Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others. <NIV>

23All things are legitimate [permissible--and we are free to do anything we please], but not all things are helpful (expedient, profitable, and wholesome). All things are legitimate, but not all things are constructive [to character] and edifying [to spiritual life].

24Let no one then seek his own good and advantage and profit, but [rather] each one of the other [let him seek the welfare of his neighbor].<AMPLIFIED>

This is The Concept of Sin in the New Testament

I hope you are not just going to objective swiftly, but rather take time to sit down with your bible and the Holy Spirit and learn something new.

doyenn:

It's possible to be forgiven after you committed the greatest sin.The only thing is you must seek forgiveness with all your heart and show that it's really not intention or it's unavoidable for you.You must not joke with it or even mock God.

@doyenn your post is good and healthy. May I just say something about SEEKING forgiveness!

With God, there's no need to seek forgiveness. In fact the bible doesn't say ask or seek; The bible says TAKE IT!!! Hebrews 4:16

. . .Why. . .?

because ". . .God so love[s] the world. . .". He's more willing to forgive than you are willing to obtain mercy. So He put out His forgiveness and says "come, take!" So when you sin, obtain mercy, because it's been given already! He's given us ". . .all things that pertain to life and godliness."
It's only hard to come to terms with this due to unbelief - See Romans 11:30
Colossians 1:14 doesn't say we ask, it says we HAVE (as our own) forgiveness - That's only because it's been given.
1 John 2:12 says "I write unto you, little children, because your sins ARE FORGIVEN you for his name's sake."

Very simple my friend. Just say it!
Tell "I love you" everyday. I do it.

As for fellowship, you just speak in tongues; it will amaze you the results.
I would like to recommend some audio tapes to you, but I need to know
would you listen to a tape by pastor Chris Oyakhilome if I recommended it
to you?

God bless you.