₦airaland Forum

Silly tackle from James. A foolish take needless tackle

Silly tackle from James. A foolish take needless tackl.

Loftus Cheek is getting on my nerves mehn. He’s been running into beautiful spaces but poses zero threat in the attack making horrible passes.

See ball possession but we can’t even do sh!t with it because we don’t have creativity up front

Just negodu Loftus Cheek…wack ass player. Short one in that midfield. Why we keep using him is a mystery

Mount continues to bungle chances…phew!

Ovamboland:
Whatever, reputable research firms are not infallible. We still have our commonsense intact.

Total public revenue in Nigeria (est)
FG - $25b
Lagos - $2bn
other 35 states $5b approx
774 LG's $1bn approx

IGR + Oil of entire federation govts
Total of $33bn for 200m people

While Egypt has about $100bn for about 100m people
South Africa has about $150bn for 54m people
Algeria has about $150bn for 43m people
Morocco has about $150bn for 54m people
Ghana has about $15bn for 30m people

Nigeria is the only country out of these raising the least amount per citizen, how do we compete adequately with them when some are spending up to 10 times on each citizen?

If you claim to have your common sense intact, shouldn't your common sense tell you that when 98% of informal taxes get into the wrong hands e.g Mc Oluomo, Teenubu and other institutional mafia, that this will mean lost IGR ?

Thank Goodness. On to the next one

We dodge Bayern again. Amen!!!!!

LegalOpinion:
That cannot be true even though it is a corrupt practice.

Most government and multinational company jobs in Nigeria are usually bought by intending applicants.

You may wish to investigate this.

What you’re saying is simply racketeering of jobs done outside the confines of official protocols. No company (officially) anywhere in the world would ask you to pay for an invite, interview or a job.

So yes, it’s a SCAM run by boys who run “local”.

Who's seeing the post match scenes? Rudiger is something else

Man gives me the JT vibes. He is squaring up with a ton of Leeds FC players. Very passionate player mahn. We need to get him that contract ASAP.

User09:
Not a coincidence our struggles have coincided with RLC starts for us. Jorginho has been overworking in this match.

RLC only good at dribbling in circles

RLCis the major culprit. Can’t defend, can’t create attack neither can he dictate the tempo of the game. Our midfield with him and Jorgi has been flat.

swiz123:
RLC is a serious danger to us. His poor positional discipline and penchant for escorting is just frightening to watch.

We desperately need Kante and Kova back. RLC is a joke.

factwriter:
Somehow (contrary to the pseudo character you always displayed) you have just revealed your true personality with this comment you made above.

Hmm, .... behind that weed puffing, jeans-sagging, scarred face nigga called SLAWORMIIR is an introspective, analytical and articulative individual.

Thumb up G

**Goes back to look for the introspective, analytical & articulative take**

God abeg!!!

joey150:
According to your link, 98% of Nigerians paid taxes to 'non-state actors'. Like I mentioned before, these 'taxes' are often paid to charlatans and are merely seen by those that pay it as "the cost of doing business." They have no knowledge where it ends up. How can such people demand accountability from anybody, let alone the government?

You've been rambling about the fact that Nigerians don't pay tax.
1. A report by a reputable research firm has debunked that baseless myth and can prove that 98% of the informal sector, pay TAX.
2. The recommendation of that report didn't ask the FG to tax the informal sector but rather asked the FG to capture the informal taxes being payed.

So you can keep going on and on about what not.

If you pay a fee to a local mafia or non-state actor to avoid being harassed or allowed to do business, can you regard it as the income tax a citizen pays to the government as a contribution to the betterment of their society?

Yes! The point is you're referring to these non-state actors who have legislative backings in some instances as mafia. This is troubling. If you can refer to the local council, the NURTW and the likes as a mafia who are backed by the law, then I might as well refer to the FIRS as a terrorist organisation.

Petty traders and artisans that are often cajoled to pay fraudulent levies don't see it as their contribution to their country's growth and hence don't treat it as such. Why the government chooses to ignore this daylight robbery is a different matter entirely.

This is on the government to stop the so-called fraudulent levies.

Ovamboland:
That's because you don't know the difference between business registrations, statutory dues, rent, licences, advert dues and income tax.

It's like insisting because you earn monthly salary your employer must provide transport, feeding, clothing, laundry, barbing services to you because you need those to appear at work.

Reputable bodies and organizations have alluded to the fact that the informal sector is taxed and they pay.

Why should any sane person then take the worthless theory of a random Sai Babarian serious?

Joke is on you

Ovamboland:
Now that steps are been taken to capture every account for tax purposes you're here cussing and kicking, aren't you negating your own common sense?

As long as no one is taxed double of what they pay, no one will raise an eye brow you pvnk.

Ovamboland:
Can someone not earning income be asked to pay income tax?

But you can claim to be unemployed and millions of naira keep passing through your account. Are you dealing drugs or laundering money for robbers?

I have zero idea what you’re rambling about. Just don’t come here and chat nonsense, you’ll be bursted.

Take your theories to your fellow Sai barbarians in your respective WhatsApp group.

That thrash, won’t fly here.

Ovamboland:
only 13% of income earners in Nigeria are registered to pay income tax. Levies, ground rent, access fees, association dues are not income taxes. They are part of the cost of doing business. Don't conflate the 2.

NURTW is not a govt revenue-generating agency, neither is it an MDA, stop pretending you don't know this already. Iya-loja dues is a traditional institution that is in the throws of it's wit end, neither does such dues enter govtconfers or end up as public funds

https://www.thecable.ng/report-98-of-businesses-in-nigerias-informal-sector-pay-taxes-but-to-non-state-actors

This is a report by reputable research firm that alludes to the fact that majority of Nigerian informal businesses pay tax. Nigeria is driven by a largely informal sector(around 60%) and 98% pay their taxes. This report clearly made a recommendation to the tax bodies on how to capture the taxies by the informal sector.

The onus is on the tax authorities to find how to capture those taxes paid.

So you can sink that your theoretical economic jargon down the sink hole. While you live on your high horse of what classifies as tax and trying to draw parity with taxation in the western world driven by a largely formal sector, don’t insult the sensibilities of Nigerians.

Ovamboland:
ALL the people I know running big private business don't pay any tax. Some are printers getting contracts worth millions or hundreds of thousands daily. Some run cold room services, some are builders. Apart from a few who get contracts from govt agencies or reputable private companies where they must pay VAT, ALL of them pay zero income tax to their state govt.

Some make millions from each job done within a month or 2.

Some turnover goods worth billions and have bank balance in billions. Go to Lagos island market. They don't even know what income tax is. But they all use the few available public facilities. These are the people we are asking to pay their fair share of the burden of running a modern state not the very poor or unemployed.

That's why smaller economies like SA and Egypt have $130b and $90b govt revenue respectively which can be invested in power projects, medical, education, roads, railway while we are struggling to scrape $25b every year.

This is a stinking lie, tell this to someone else, not me.

joey150:
You said you pay nearly all your income to the government. I don't have the energy to go back to the quote. I kept pushing for you to explain what that meant. Alas, you never did.

The concept of taxation to increase accountability is simple. if someone directly funds or finances something, they tend to care and pay more attention to it. It's not rocket science.

If I build a house with my money, I will ensure that my tenants don't put my house in danger. If I pay my mechanic to fix my car, I will ensure he has used the money I gave him to buy the required parts he charged me for. etc. I care about these things because my money is involved.

If most citizens pay taxes, they will ensure or at least try to ensure that the roads, schools, hospitals, power, etc that their money was supposed to finance is built.

This is common sense. We've gone back and forth to explain a simple concept. People care where their money goes. Tell Nigerians somebody stole 100 Billion naira of public funds and they don't care. Why should they? Have they contributed directly to the 100 billion, NO!

Lol. I am tired of explaining. Perhaps I should refer you to books if you still don't get it.

Okada riders fvcking pay tax, Joey. Danfo drivers fvcking pay tax and it's levied daily. Keke napep riders fvcking pay tax daily. Sometimes, what they pay is way more than 20-25% of their income, that you pay. The woman who sells in Aswani market, pays a fraction of her income to the local council. The food vendor who has a small stall by the road side, pays money to the local council. Go and stand by the roadside in whatever area you stay, start selling something and see if in days, you won't have the local council members disturbing you who will come and cut ticket for you.

You're so self cut out that you think because you get a cool FIRS/LIRS fancy receipt, that you're better than the man who gets a NURTW sticker on his danfo to ply the road after they've given up a % of their income, you pay your dues, while they don't. You're so fvcking self absorbed because you think you're better than the guy who is taxed informally.

Perhaps I should refer you to books if you still don't get it

No! You stop reading those western economic jargons that doesn't apply to your country and read this: https://www.thecable.ng/report-98-of-businesses-in-nigerias-informal-sector-pay-taxes-but-to-non-state-actors

98% of Nigerians in the informal sector, pay tax. Common sense should simply mean that if the tax bodies are serious, they should harmonize these payments into a central pool and find a way of capturing the the informal sector. This could simply be by capturing those daily levies collected by the local council, NURTW etc. This can be where automation comes to play and can also mean some hard decisions like outlawing collections by these local/state/federal actors, so that the informal sector is not double taxed and pay according to what they earn.

You're so self absorbed that you are literally comparing a pseudo-third world country driven by a largely informal sector to the theories applied in first world countries driven majorly by the formal economy.

joey150:
You pay taxes on your side hustle and salary job, how is that a bad thing? Aren't you supposed to pay taxes? Is the said taxes your entire earnings?
I wanted to get to the bottom of that allegation you made, and I am not surprised that there's zero truth to it.

Are you okay like this? Lmao!!! My post clearly makes reference to Nigerians (both in the informal & formal sector) in the context of taxing proportional to their earnings. You asked a personal question, I answered but you're saying something else. Who ever said TAXES your entire earnings? You well so? Loool

Haha. Nothing is ever on Nigerians. Well, except poverty which we seem to be wearing with pride these days. I am sure the bribe and 'egunje' we pay to policemen are security votes and taxes too,

Yes oh! Blame the already hapless citizens who have been stretched to the limits. Blame them until you've drained them the fvck out.

Until it takes more than one person to 'care,' Nigeria will remain the poverty capital of the world. People deserve the leaders they get. You think it's a mystery that Buhari ruled us for eight years and then Tinubu is gearing up to continue? Nah. We are all hapless.

The fact that you are trying to directly draw a correlation with paying taxes and holding leaders accountable, doesn't paint you as being too intelligent. Unemployment rate is at double digits and about to gear up to 40% (official stats. This is way higher) but you want them to pay tax. Lol

joey150:
Define this money you already pay to the government. I am asking not for argument's sake, I am asking to also know. If something like this exists I would love to know how.

I have a side hustle that pays tax, I also pay income tax as a salary earner.

I told you initially, that I will not classify money paid illegally, but somehow endorsed by the government as "income tax." Call it what you will, but it simply isn't tax. Call it corruption or thuggery levy, but it's not an income tax.

It is tax. Call it whatever, it is tax. Simple definition of tax tells me that those monies, under whatever guise, is tax. Our fore fathers paid taxes on their income/goods/wares sold before the advent of economic textbooks that taught you these theories you want to die on, maybe you'll argue that it was never tax.

You can assure me? of course, you can't assure me that most small business people pay income taxes. Because Only about 22% of Nigerians officially pay taxes (A huge chunk of which are salary earners and those employed by the government).

Only an ediot expects more than that figure to pay tax, in the poverty capital of the world. There's a reason why we wear that badge. If the government decides to look away from the taxes that their own agency already collects from the akara seller and the tricycle rider, sensible people know that anything on top of that, amounts to double taxation. The onus then is for the government to streamline their tax processes...That's not on us

I pay taxes and so I care. I look at my payslip and I cringe. Because all that money is mostly financing the lifestyle of flamboyant and corrupt government officials. Now, I wish 180 million Nigerians also felt the same way.

Good for you. So let's see how your "caring" changes anything.

joey150:
The point of taxes is that it hits a considerable amount of your income that FORCES you to care when an irresposible government decides to toil with what is supposed to be a chunk of your hard-earned money. It forces all of us to say, NO, we will not finance stupid government expenditure and hedonistic habits anymore. We are going to either boot you all out in 4 years, make you change or force you to resign now.

I get what you're trying to say but it's preposterous. Many of us already pay what you define as considerable amount of income, yet we can't tell what it's used for. Paying or NOT paying taxes is never the way to hold an irresponsible government accountable, that's the point.

it is not crafty, it is the truth. Most people, especially those who aren't salary earners (A number that accounts for most of the working population) do not pay taxes that is commensurate with their earnings. You cannot convince me that a 200 naira or 500 naira levy is the same as a 15-20% income tax. Churches even arguably make more money from tithes than the government from taxes.

Don't die on this hill, my friend. I can assure you that many small scale businesses pay anything from 20-40% of their earnings to government agencies. Step out of your house, enter a keke/bus and ask them how much they pay to NURTW on a daily basis...For many, it's up to 40% of what they earn. So don't go that sneaky route of 200 naira. The question is, 200 naira is % of what? If I earn 2.5 thousand naira daily but end up paying 500 to local council, isn't that up to 20% of my income?

Ojb194616:
If you've worked with the government..u will understand what he is trying to say.
Thing is, most of the head of ministries employ forgetting that in the beginning of the year, they allocate budgets for salaries.
When u over spend the budgets allocated to you..it becomes an issue.

But the good thing is, the government always have a way of paying that. ...but it usually comes late.

You’re looking for an excuse for an incompetent government. It clearly says shortfall in budgetary allocations which can also mean that there’s no money. You’re making a one sided case when we know clearly that it could be anyway, especially from a reckless and incompetent government.

No where did it insinuate that the departments overshot their budgetary allocations. So while making a case for the failure called Buhari, you can as well tell same to the policemen who’ll vent their frustration on hapless Nigerians.

seunmsg:
[s]The usual ignorant reaction from folks who know little or nothing about how government works. Budget are done for control purposes. If there is a shortfall in the personnel budget of any agency, the management of the agency should be held responsible. This has nothing to do with the president or party. It happens under every government or president.

It is not a big deal because it would be corrected. That is why we have the service wide vote. There will be delay of two or three weeks but they will be paid. The delay is due to the fact that the reason for the shortfalls needs to be investigated, the actual amount needed to pay the workers confirmed and the bureaucracy involved in approving and releasing fund from service wide votes[/s].

Send this hogwash to your fellow BMC nitwits on your whatsapp group. Or better still, send it to the thousands of policemen who's families won't feed well and they'll in turn vent their frustrations on hapless Nigerians.

Pvnk talking about who know little or nothing about how government works . You think you're talking to your fellow Sai babarians? Eleribu!!

seunmsg:
Stop believing fake news. We have about 1000 Federal MDAs but the report was based on an internal circular issued by the heads of just two agencies with shortfall in their personnel budget. All federal workers will receive their December salaries without any delay except those in agencies that have exhausted their budget. This is not a big deal if you are conversant with how federal government operates and it has nothing to do with shortage of funds/revenue. It is just a budgetary problem.

The Nigerian police with tens of thousands of staff covering 36 states and the FCT, are going to be owed salaries just a few weeks to the festive period. But here you are, trying to downplay it as “not a big deal”, and “just 2 agencies”.

You and those who support this senseless regime have been proven to be air heads but you keep taking it up a notch higher. Ediots!

joey150:
Kindly explain how you pay nearly all the money you earn to your government?

I have zero idea where you saw this. Because this is what I said:
...I live in an almost 3rd world country where I already pay money equivalent to my income to government...

I am specifically talking about TAXES here. If you choose to ascribe any money illegally collected from people, both under the direct and indirect supervision of the government, under the guise of pointless fines, levies, or penalty as tax, then that's on you. Taxes are supposed to be set based on various predetermined factors.

You're indicting the government, simple!!!!! If you claim that representatives of government, collect illegal, pointless etc fees, you're clearly alluding to my point. So you should hold the government accountable and they should be the ones to clean up their mess, not hapless Nigerians.

An akara woman who earns 15k daily and then pays 500 naira as some form of levy, did not pay her income tax

If an akara woman pays 500 naira to an irresponsible government who can't account for that 500 naira, how do you then convince such woman to pay 24% of her earnings, under the useless guise of legal/personal tax to the same irresponsible goverment?

BTW, your example of 500 naira levy on 15k daily, is a crafty one. You're trying to portray the akara woman as not paying the equivalent of her income, when you know this is NOT always true.

backbencher:
Basically, this is why they want to remove fuel subsides

We are running out of money due to having to feed the subsidy monster and the debt monster. Debts that rose due to declining oil prices over the years, and subsidy costs that never stop rising due to rising energy costs as a whole.

Also, the TIN requirement for all accounts (if true) fits into the general story. Our tax to gdp ratio is a lowly 6.1 %, and the World Bank has blasted us for having such low tax collection numbers. Obviously the government wants to squeeze us for every bit of money.

Ideally, the government could save money by defaulting on IMF loans, as did Argentina, but Argentina paid heavily for doing that eventually. And oil prices are showing no sign of rising above $80

Sad thing is, we voted out one set of people with no ideas on how to diversify the economy, for another set of people with no ideas on how to diversify the economy, and here we are.

Well said!

joey150:
1. Tax is Tax. They obviously all serve the same puprose. My point being that there are different forms and kind of taxes.
So, just because a business man pays VAT and not income tax, doesn't mean he's a part of the taxable population. He still doesn't pay income tax. That being said, a bulk of Nigeria's "informal" sector still don't pay tax.

You're confusing yourself with all the semantics. I live in an almost 3rd world country where I already pay money equivalent to my income to government...Whatever grammar/label economic experts (you included) decide to append to that payment, is their plate of watery beans. This is simply TAX.

2. As long as we don't industrialise and get more of our population employed so we can tax them, we'll be stuck in this rut. Again, emphasises my point. If most people are underemployed and poor, and by extension, pay no taxes, they have no direct connection with the government. Basically, they don't contribute in anyway, and are thus generally unbothered about governance.

I agree. The focus should then be on the government ensuring productivity and industralisation.

3. You don't pay 'taxes' to sell Akara. You pay taxes on your income from selling Akara. I have no idea what the levies those people are asked to pay. Regardless, it's not a form of "tax". At least, none that is legally recognised.

You're still confusing yourself. If government decides to appoint NURTW to collect taxes from Nigerians, does it make it any less of taxation? You're stuck in all the semantics. Any monies that individuals pay on their income using whatever principle, is simply TAX. The tricycle rider, pays a fraction of his income to the NURTW daily. The akara seller, pays a fraction of her income selling akara to the Local council daily/weekly. Any grammar or way Joey wants to twist this fact, that I'm taxed already, is your business.

The NURTW, Local Council who collect these levies, are all part of the government.

The summary being that our taxation system is riddled with corruption and very inefficient.

This should be your argument not argue the definition of taxes. Where does the NURTW fee levied on okada riders/tricycle riders go to? Where does the weekly levy paid by the akara seller to the local council go to?

I don't need to be an economics major to know that simple automation/process improvement by the tax bodies on those monies paid by the tricycle rider/akara seller is collected at a central/accountable point. But No, let us leave Mc Oluomo to continue to use okada/marwa riders money to fund the luxurious lifestyle of his concubines and turn around to scream that Nigerians don't pay tax. Nonsense!!

joey150:
A greater number of the population don't pay tax.

This is simply because this GREATER NUMBER are impoverished and unemployed. We're the poverty capital of the world for a reason.

Your local government council tax, VAT and the likes is different from income tax (which only salary earners pay).

What you're saying is simply semantics because tax is simply fee imposed by government, to fund government spending. Whatever the name is called, it's simply TAX.

Also, most of the informal taxes are usually illegal and end up in private pockets.

That is NOT on the citizens. If I pay levy to local government officials to sell my akara by the road side and that money is used to fund the aesthetic lifestyle of MC Oluomo or ends up in Tinubu's pocket, it's not on me. The government should be the ones talking of revenue assurance by cleaning their processes up or using automation.