philip0906:

I have zero idea where you saw this. Because this is what I said:
...I live in an almost 3rd world country where I already pay money equivalent to my income to government...

This is exactly my question. How do you already pay money equivalent to your income to the government?

You're indicting the government, simple!!!!! If you claim that representatives of government, collect illegal, pointless etc fees, you're clearly alluding to my point. So you should hold the government accountable and they should be the ones to clean up their mess, not hapless Nigerians.

Of course, I am indicting the government here. I should hold the government responsible? People say this like it's one person's duty to do this. Like the citizens don't have a right to hold supposedly elected people to account? Like it's the job of whoever protests against the status quo.
Nigerians are hapless!! Cant you see all 180 million of us flocking to churches on sunday and mosques on firday hoping Mohammed and Jesus form a superhero collaboration to rescue us from our alien enemies in government houses. We are truly in a very unhelpable situation.

If an akara woman pays 500 naira to an irresponsible government who can't account for that 500 naira, how do you then convince such woman to pay 24% of her earnings, under the useless guise of legal/personal tax to the same irresponsible goverment?

An Akara woman pays 500, mainly as a cost of doing business. To her, it's not a tax levy. It's a fee she has to pay to do business in a very corrupt country. Why should she bother about who the 500 naira goes too? The government has institutionalised corruption and the citizens are abating and feeding the same system that is killing them.

The point of taxes is that it hits a considerable amount of your income that FORCES you to care when an irresposible government decides to toil with what is supposed to be a chunk of your hard-earned money. It forces all of us to say, NO, we will not finance stupid government expenditure and hedonistic habits anymore. We are going to either boot you all out in 4 years, make you change or force you to resign now.

[BTW, your example of 500 naira levy on 15k daily, is a crafty one. You're trying to portray the akara woman as not paying the equivalent of her income, when you know this is NOT always true.

It's not me being crafty, it's the truth. Most people, especially those who aren't salary earners (A number that accounts for most of the working population) do not pay taxes that are even remotely commensurate with their earnings. You cannot convince me that a 200 naira or 500 naira levy is the same as a 15-20% income tax. Churches even arguably make more money from tithes than the government from taxes. . And in a way I think the government enjoys the fact that they can run the country on petro-dollars, because then the citizens cannot hold them accountable for anything. They basically didn't steal our money, it's oil money. Tough times ahead, Nigerians will learn the hard way.

FINANCE BILL VIOLATES CAMA AND COMPANY RIGHTS.

CAMA SHOULD BE REVIEWED INSTEAD.

THERE'S A COMPANY LAW LEGAL CODE, THAT CODE SHOULD BE REVIEWED TOO. THIS FINANCE BILL IS RIFA-RUGA ISLAMISATION FULANISATION AND ANARCHY AND MEANT TO TRANSFER FINANCIAL CONTROL TO MACBAN. PLEASE SCRAP IT AND REVIEW ALL EXISTING LAWS.

PrinceOfLagos:
All of you are mad

It's BOKONOMICS.

funshint:
Just trying to increase the yoke on the neck of Nigerians. Who did us this?

MILITARY HQ JUST REPORTED THAT SOME RELEASED BOKOHARAMS ARE FIGHTING BACK. THEY ARE REASSERTING THEMSELVES.

joey150:

The point of taxes is that it hits a considerable amount of your income that FORCES you to care when an irresposible government decides to toil with what is supposed to be a chunk of your hard-earned money. It forces all of us to say, NO, we will not finance stupid government expenditure and hedonistic habits anymore. We are going to either boot you all out in 4 years, make you change or force you to resign now.

I get what you're trying to say but it's preposterous. Many of us already pay what you define as considerable amount of income, yet we can't tell what it's used for. Paying or NOT paying taxes is never the way to hold an irresponsible government accountable, that's the point.

it is not crafty, it is the truth. Most people, especially those who aren't salary earners (A number that accounts for most of the working population) do not pay taxes that is commensurate with their earnings. You cannot convince me that a 200 naira or 500 naira levy is the same as a 15-20% income tax. Churches even arguably make more money from tithes than the government from taxes.

Don't die on this hill, my friend. I can assure you that many small scale businesses pay anything from 20-40% of their earnings to government agencies. Step out of your house, enter a keke/bus and ask them how much they pay to NURTW on a daily basis...For many, it's up to 40% of what they earn. So don't go that sneaky route of 200 naira. The question is, 200 naira is % of what? If I earn 2.5 thousand naira daily but end up paying 500 to local council, isn't that up to 20% of my income?

PrinceOfLagos:

You did this to yourself the very day you voted for the world most useless and evil political party, The APC .

So Will you still vote for APC in 2023 ?

We didn't vote for them. They rigged themselves in.

PrinceOfLagos:

You did this to yourself the very day you voted for the world most useless and evil political party, The APC .

So Will you still vote for APC in 2023 ?

We didn't vote for them. They rigged themselves in by coercion.

Vat wey una dey charge on top never do una?
No work/job
Economy zero
Person go suffer make way for himself
Una go still tax am ontop his hard earned money.
Only for politicians in government to psiphon the money into their personal pockets…
The cycle is truly terrible

These set if bastards won't try to to review the area whereby the banks, the agberos and d FG herself is milking the citizen dry all they are after is to drain out the last from the average Nigerians.

philip0906:

I get what you're trying to say but it's preposterous. Many of us already pay what you define as considerable amount of income, yet we can't tell what it's used for. Paying or NOT paying taxes is never the way to hold an irresponsible government accountable, that's the point.

Define this money you already pay to the government. I am asking not for argument's sake, I am asking to also know. If something like this exists I would love to know how.

Don't die on this hill, my friend. I can assure you that many small scale businesses pay anything from 20-40% of their earnings to government agencies. Step out of your house, enter a keke/bus and ask them how much they pay to NURTW on a daily basis...For many, it's up to 40% of what they earn. So don't go that sneaky route of 200 naira. The question is, 200 naira is % of what? If I earn 2.5 thousand naira daily but end up paying 500 to local council, isn't that up to 20% of my income?

I told you initially, that I will not classify money paid illegally, but somehow endorsed by the government as "income tax." Call it what you will, but it simply isn't tax. Call it corruption or thuggery levy, but it's not an income tax.

You can assure me? of course, you can't assure me that most small business people pay income taxes. Because Only about 22% of Nigerians officially pay taxes (A huge chunk of which are salary earners and those employed by the government).

I pay taxes and so I care. I look at my payslip and I cringe. Because all that money is mostly financing the lifestyle of flamboyant and corrupt government officials. Now, I wish 180 million Nigerians also felt the same way.

Easy5265:


You don't throw figures without backing it up. Oil makes up a greater % of Nigeria's GDP. A larger % of the populace or unemployed, even those that are can't live on their wages. You still then want to tax them to death. What has the government done with the resources to now seek for more. No stable power supply, no good road, security is next to none, inflation is aiming for the moon. Nigeria is no longer moving in circle, it is retrogressing.

Where is the backup for your data that Oil makes up the greater part of Nigeria GDP?
That is very wrong, oil is less than 9% of Nigeria GDP, Services and Agriculture are each far bigger than oil.

Tax the Nigeria $465bn like SA tax their $390b or Egypt tax $320b.
You cant collect income tax from a person who has not earned. Once you earn above the threshold you must pay even if it is 100 naira monthly.

Your noise about poor people only helps those who should pay $100m tax to easily escape because you want to protect 100 naira from a low wage earner.

joey150:


Define this money you already pay to the government. I am asking not for argument's sake, I am asking to also know. If something like this exists I would love to know how.

I have a side hustle that pays tax, I also pay income tax as a salary earner.

I told you initially, that I will not classify money paid illegally, but somehow endorsed by the government as "income tax." Call it what you will, but it simply isn't tax. Call it corruption or thuggery levy, but it's not an income tax.

It is tax. Call it whatever, it is tax. Simple definition of tax tells me that those monies, under whatever guise, is tax. Our fore fathers paid taxes on their income/goods/wares sold before the advent of economic textbooks that taught you these theories you want to die on, maybe you'll argue that it was never tax.

You can assure me? of course, you can't assure me that most small business people pay income taxes. Because Only about 22% of Nigerians officially pay taxes (A huge chunk of which are salary earners and those employed by the government).

Only an ediot expects more than that figure to pay tax, in the poverty capital of the world. There's a reason why we wear that badge. If the government decides to look away from the taxes that their own agency already collects from the akara seller and the tricycle rider, sensible people know that anything on top of that, amounts to double taxation. The onus then is for the government to streamline their tax processes...That's not on us

I pay taxes and so I care. I look at my payslip and I cringe. Because all that money is mostly financing the lifestyle of flamboyant and corrupt government officials. Now, I wish 180 million Nigerians also felt the same way.

Good for you. So let's see how your "caring" changes anything.

abbeyfel:
You obviously don't understand. Nigerians are one of the people that pay tax the most in the world! Just check how many VAT Nigerians are paying before you say all these you are saying. Most workers in Nigeria pay tax because it is deducted even before they get paid. Any banking transactions now is taxed wether you like it or not. Deposit money, they will tax you. Withdraw money, they will tax you. If we don't care that they steal our money, then why are we always crying foul?
Or do you expect us to start stoning the politicians when they are passing with their always very strong security details? So what exactly are you saying?

Ghana pays 12.5% VAT, was 15% till recently, UK pays 17.5% sales tax.
Nigeria pays 7.5% was 5 till last year.

How can 7.5% be more than 12.5%

Ask anyone living in Ghana, you pay 8% tax on your house rent, in Nigeria its 0%.
You pay council tax, sales tax, road tax, income tax etc in UK.

philip0906:

I have a side hustle that pays tax, I also pay income tax as a salary earner.

You pay taxes on your side hustle and salary job, how is that a bad thing? Aren't you supposed to pay taxes? Is the said taxes your entire earnings?
I wanted to get to the bottom of that allegation you made, and I am not surprised that there's zero truth to it.

It is tax. Call it whatever, it is tax. Simple definition of tax tells me that those monies, under whatever guise, is tax. Our fore fathers paid taxes on their income/goods/wares sold before the advent of economic textbooks that taught you these theories you want to die on, maybe you'll argue that it was never tax.


Only an ediot expects more than that figure to pay tax, in the poverty capital of the world. There's a reason why we wear that badge. If the government decides to look away from the taxes that their own agency already collects from the akara seller and the tricycle rider, sensible people know that anything on top of that, amounts to double taxation. The onus then is for the government to streamline their tax processes...That's not on us

Haha. Nothing is ever on Nigerians. Well, except poverty which we seem to be wearing with pride these days. I am sure the bribe and 'egunje' we pay to policemen are security votes and taxes too,

Good for you. So let's see how your "caring" changes anything.

Until it takes more than one person to 'care,' Nigeria will remain the poverty capital of the world. People deserve the leaders they get. You think it's a mystery that Buhari ruled us for eight years and then Tinubu is gearing up to continue? Nah. We are all hapless.

You have a great evening sire.

It will never be well for any individual & group of persons that voted in this Jihadist of a president, Muhammed Buhari.
It is easy for them to tax owners of bank account, but can't send their useless #5,000 stipend to owners of bank account because most Northerners of Muslim extraction don't have bank accounts. Meaning that, he wants to steal from d Southern Nigeria and part of middle-belt region to sustain d leeches in the North.

God will punish dis administration in Jesus name.

COMPAQ:


That is already being done by way of N50 stamp duty for any credit to account over N10k! You no dey see am for your own account?

Besides, linking TIN to account doesn't mean they will charge tax per transaction. It's just a way to link people cash flows to their tax records. How can N50mln pass through an account yet the person has no tax record with govt because he's an Idumota trader. That has got to stop.

Left to me people with no tax record should not be able to fly out of Nigeria. Tax records should be linked to passport sef. You don't pay tax, but you can afford N750k flight to US!? Or N300k flight to Dubai! How can?

that goes to show how brainless people can be. a billion naira transaction can go wit a loss.... in biz you do not expect profit all the . the transaction may not be for profit,,,,,,,i.e NGOs

joey150:


You pay taxes on your side hustle and salary job, how is that a bad thing? Aren't you supposed to pay taxes? Is the said taxes your entire earnings?
I wanted to get to the bottom of that allegation you made, and I am not surprised that there's zero truth to it.

Are you okay like this? Lmao!!! My post clearly makes reference to Nigerians (both in the informal & formal sector) in the context of taxing proportional to their earnings. You asked a personal question, I answered but you're saying something else. Who ever said TAXES your entire earnings? You well so? Loool

Haha. Nothing is ever on Nigerians. Well, except poverty which we seem to be wearing with pride these days. I am sure the bribe and 'egunje' we pay to policemen are security votes and taxes too,

Yes oh! Blame the already hapless citizens who have been stretched to the limits. Blame them until you've drained them the fvck out.

Until it takes more than one person to 'care,' Nigeria will remain the poverty capital of the world. People deserve the leaders they get. You think it's a mystery that Buhari ruled us for eight years and then Tinubu is gearing up to continue? Nah. We are all hapless.

The fact that you are trying to directly draw a correlation with paying taxes and holding leaders accountable, doesn't paint you as being too intelligent. Unemployment rate is at double digits and about to gear up to 40% (official stats. This is way higher) but you want them to pay tax. Lol

My question :
Who are eligible to pay tax in Nigeria ?
Does this tax system applicable to unemployed youths, aged people etc.
If yes, how will the system measure their income??

Criminals

Are they paying their own tax useless opportunist ruling us

philip0906:

Are you okay like this? Lmao!!! My post clearly makes reference to Nigerians (both in the informal & formal sector) in the context of taxing proportional to their earnings. You asked a personal question, I answered but you're saying something else. Who ever said TAXES your entire earnings? You well so? Loool




Yes oh! Blame the already hapless citizens who have been stretched to the limits. Blame them until you've drained them the fvck out.



The fact that you are trying to directly draw a correlation with paying taxes and holding leaders accountable, doesn't paint you as being too intelligent. Unemployment rate is at double digits and about to gear up to 40% (official stats. This is way higher) but you want them to pay tax. Lol

You said you pay nearly all your income to the government. I don't have the energy to go back to the quote. I kept pushing for you to explain what that meant. Alas, you never did.

The concept of taxation to increase accountability is simple. if someone directly funds or finances something, they tend to care and pay more attention to it. It's not rocket science.

If I build a house with my money, I will ensure that my tenants don't put my house in danger. If I pay my mechanic to fix my car, I will ensure he has used the money I gave him to buy the required parts he charged me for. etc. I care about these things because my money is involved.

If most citizens pay taxes, they will ensure or at least try to ensure that the roads, schools, hospitals, power, etc that their money was supposed to finance is built.

This is common sense. We've gone back and forth to explain a simple concept. People care where their money goes. Tell Nigerians somebody stole 100 Billion naira of public funds and they don't care. Why should they? Have they contributed directly to the 100 billion, NO!

Lol. I am tired of explaining. Perhaps I should refer you to books if you still don't get it.

CSTRR:

Many people pay tax in Nigeria.

I pay serious tax.
So what has changed?

Will more taxes make your leaders more responsible?

Are you telling me I can tell buhari to stop wasting my current taxes on foreign travels?.

What are you on about?

Are you living in an Utopia?

Congratulations on being a compliant tax payer. I'm too and have being consistent for the past 2 decades. 10% of my earnings from share dividends goes to the FG. I also buy vatable goods and services.
However we belong to a minority tribe in Nigeria. Data shows only about 13% of working class Nigerians are registered to pay tax. Your guess is as good as mine on the number these registered whose tax deductions actually makes it to govt coffers.
In Lagos state, data shows only 700,000 workers are on the tax database, where are the millions of other workers?

These are the millions that will clogg the few roads built for 700,000 workers and family. They contribute nothing but will overwhelm the few hospitals making doctors and nurses overstretched and ineffective. They are the millions that will collect 2k and vote thieves because it is not their money getting stolen.

If a vulcanizer earns 1m a year and pays 50k income tax, that's 200k every 4 years, do you think 2k or 5k will swing his votes? Or religion or zone of the candidate will be his primary concern? He will want good value from the 200k he has paid and chose wisely.

philip0906:

You're confusing yourself with all the semantics. I live in an almost 3rd world country where I already pay money equivalent to my income to government...Whatever grammar/label economic experts (you included) decide to append to that payment, is their plate of watery beans. This is simply TAX.


I agree. The focus should then be on the government ensuring productivity and industralisation.


You're still confusing yourself. If government decides to appoint NURTW to collect taxes from Nigerians, does it make it any less of taxation? You're stuck in all the semantics. Any monies that individuals pay on their income using whatever principle, is simply TAX. The tricycle rider, pays a fraction of his income to the NURTW daily. The akara seller, pays a fraction of her income selling akara to the Local council daily/weekly. Any grammar or way Joey wants to twist this fact, that I'm taxed already, is your business.

The NURTW, Local Council who collect these levies, are all part of the government.



This should be your argument not argue the definition of taxes. Where does the NURTW fee levied on okada riders/tricycle riders go to? Where does the weekly levy paid by the akara seller to the local council go to?

I don't need to be an economics major to know that simple automation/process improvement by the tax bodies on those monies paid by the tricycle rider/akara seller is collected at a central/accountable point. But No, let us leave Mc Oluomo to continue to use okada/marwa riders money to fund the luxurious lifestyle of his concubines and turn around to scream that Nigerians don't pay tax. Nonsense!!

ALL the people I know running big private business don't pay any tax. Some are printers getting contracts worth millions or hundreds of thousands daily. Some run cold room services, some are builders. Apart from a few who get contracts from govt agencies or reputable private companies where they must pay VAT, ALL of them pay zero income tax to their state govt.

Some make millions from each job done within a month or 2.

Some turnover goods worth billions and have bank balance in billions. Go to Lagos island market. They don't even know what income tax is. But they all use the few available public facilities. These are the people we are asking to pay their fair share of the burden of running a modern state not the very poor or unemployed.

That's why smaller economies like SA and Egypt have $130b and $90b govt revenue respectively which can be invested in power projects, medical, education, roads, railway while we are struggling to scrape $25b every year.

.

PetroDolla2020:
"Tiny" Ghana? How "tiny" is Ghana? Like an ant?

Ghana economy is tiny beside Nigeria. After removing their GDP from that of Nigeria we will still be number 1 in Africa still bigger than South Africa.

Now imagine that tiny Ghana having a revenue more than half of that of Nigeria? Yet our economy is more than 6 times or theirs. Shows our tax system is very poor and grossly under performing.
It's not like the average Ghanian is so much richer than the average Nigerian.

abbeyfel:
You are still getting it wrong. Paying taxes does not literally mean a better life. What guarantees a good life for the people is good governance! Do we have that in place at the moment? Point is, how is attacking from the bank account angle an even sensible thing to do Is that where their brain lead them. As in go through bank accounts like everyone with bank accounts are taxable. Mumu thing..

Paying taxes does not remove the need for good governance.
Conversely, paying taxes is an adjutant for more responsible governance because I now know the people pay for the cost of governance including the salary of all politicians.

A situation where 80-90% of what a state income is coming from Abuja or Oil, why do I need to care what the people think? I better be in the good books of the president and oil company executives. When election comes I set aside 5k for like 200,000 voters who don't pay tax. Mere 1bn naira to give me the right to spend 250bn as I like every year.

lexy2014:


Everyone in Nigeria pays taxes. So your theory that paying taxes is directly related to political participation and holding govt accountable doesn't have any basis

Most people earning in Nigeria don't pay income tax. How can they pay without a TIN or being registered?
Only VAT that is difficult to escape cut across partly because not all goods and services in the market charge VAT.

I dont know anyone in business who pays income tax dutifully, do you know anyone?

They may be making millions but whenever pushed to the wall and in need of tax clearance, they will 15k and are covered for the year

Ovamboland:


Most people earning in Nigeria don't pay income tax. How can they pay without a TIN or being registered?
Only VAT that is difficult to escape cut across partly because not all goods and services in the market charge VAT.

I dont know anyone in business who pays income tax dutifully, do you know anyone?

They may be making millions but whenever pushed to the wall and in need of tax clearance, they will 15k and are covered for the year

ok...how does this relate with what i said?

ezechi24:


such nonsense write up.....can you please show me any meaningful impact in the country with the taxes theyve been getting since 1960....i can see that you dont just want to have sense...suffer no dey tire you?

Tell us for how many years of that 61 years did government in Nigeria run on taxes paid by the people.
For your information oil has been the chief income for about 50 years and politicians will be more loyal to Oil executives and interests than the people who mostly pay nothing. He who pays the piper dictates the tune holds here.

Afamed:
Children of hate aka children of frustration with different lies. What has personal/individual account got to do with TIN?

you are irredeemable. Just look at your display of ignorance at this glaring gross wickedness. It's remaining to skim the masses alive before you get sense

Ovamboland:


Ghana economy is tiny beside Nigeria. After removing their GDP from that of Nigeria we will still be number 1 in Africa still bigger than South Africa.

Now imagine that tiny Ghana having a revenue more than half of that of Nigeria? Yet our economy is more than 6 times or theirs. Shows our tax system is very poor and grossly under performing.
It's not like the average Ghanian is so much richer than the average Nigerian.

You Nigerians talk too much lol... Yet ur the poverty capital of the world. Y'all starving to death

joey150:


You said you pay nearly all your income to the government. I don't have the energy to go back to the quote. I kept pushing for you to explain what that meant. Alas, you never did.

The concept of taxation to increase accountability is simple. if someone directly funds or finances something, they tend to care and pay more attention to it. It's not rocket science.

If I build a house with my money, I will ensure that my tenants don't put my house in danger. If I pay my mechanic to fix my car, I will ensure he has used the money I gave him to buy the required parts he charged me for. etc. I care about these things because my money is involved.

If most citizens pay taxes, they will ensure or at least try to ensure that the roads, schools, hospitals, power, etc that their money was supposed to finance is built.

This is common sense. We've gone back and forth to explain a simple concept. People care where their money goes. Tell Nigerians somebody stole 100 Billion naira of public funds and they don't care. Why should they? Have they contributed directly to the 100 billion, NO!

Lol. I am tired of explaining. Perhaps I should refer you to books if you still don't get it.

Very clearly explained but it seems simple concept is difficult to teach many Nigerians.

Their emotions, biases and fears easily get in the way. Many don't understand there is no perfect system anywhere in the world. 100% tax compliance does not mean we will have perfect governance and no more need for vigilance by ordinary citizens.