mukina2:

what was the ban message for PhysicsQED?

"Sorry PhysicsQED, you've lost your forum posting privileges.

Reason: Personal Insults are against forum rules"

Jakumo: The vast majority of Germans who work for Julius Berger treat Nigerians with great respect, and enjoy the company of Nigerian women in particular.

I have hunted with these guys on many occasions, and thus spent long enough around them to note that they are very courteous with their drivers and assistants. The man trying to create his little Apartheid in some remote Julius Berger camp is clearly a wacko that does NOT represent the majority of other Germans and expatriates working in Nigeria

How do you know that they aren't just pretending to respect Nigerians in public, while buying hookers or degrading women in private and then sending emails about it to their buddies?


And what were you guys hunting?

^^^^

yeah

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-600135.0.html#msg7679920

lmao


The contrast is hilarious. . .

Women that are not Igbo are also representing states that their ancestors are not indigenous to either: Sophie Gemal (or is Gemal an Ijaw name?), Kome Osalor, Gbemisola Shotade, Awefada Ovoke, and Olamide Aroguma. So I don't know what the Igbo complaints are for. For all you know Gbemisola Shotade or Olamide Aroguma could be from Osun.

Make up really does wonders. I saw the original pictures in another thread and most of the women looked slightly above average at best, but these pictures are definitely better.


That said, Chantelle Unachukwu still looks ugly as hell and has no business being in a beauty contest.

Tessy Maduko, Grace Ndamm, Ngwu Oganna Linda also have no business being there.


Josephine Igochie can't be the most beautiful woman in Benue, and certainly not Nigeria. Hopefully this is just a bad pic. 


Obioma Isiwu's head looks funny. The hairstyle isn't helping.


I think Chidebe Joyce would probably win if it was just based on looks.  She has great eyes. Her or Menkiti Sylvia, Kome Osalor, Gbemisola Shotade, Gabriella Ndu, or Metu Kelechi.

I don't think rice is really indigenous either. I'd have to look into that.

Hey, OAMJ, congrats on being made a mod.  Do you have the power to ban and unban people? If so, could you unban PhysicsQED?

ekt_bear:

PhysicsMHD, before I read that report I had the vague impression that agitation for the Midwest region actually had some sort of firm basis. Some sort of theft of money/transfer of resources, unfair political representation, ethnic domination, etc.

But from reading that report, the opposite seems to be true. Especially the economic stuff (cocoa vs rubber). Very likely there was a net subsidy in the direction of the Midwest. Seems the biggest failing of the Western Region was spending slightly less per mile on road in the Midwest than it did in the West. Compare this with the litany of complaints/concerns raised by the minorities of the Eastern or Northern regions, for example.

In fact, from reading that report, it seems to me that minorities had the best lot in the SW region and the worst lot in the SE.

Does this report paint an accurate picture? Or does it ignore certain grievances?

It left out some things. I'll respond thoroughly in a while, but it's pretty late right now.

The truth is that the Willink Commission was a failure and the authors were very naively and unthinkingly biased in favor of the three main groups in Nigeria. If they had acquiesced to most of the implementable requests of the different groups - from Ijaws and Igbos (Anioma) in the Western region, to minorities in the North, to the peoples in what is now Rivers state and many others- instead of refusing to do so for mere "administrative convenience," an enormous amount of strife and conflict (political, social, and military) would have been avoided, whether we're talking about the 1960s or about modern rebellion and agitation today. Anybody who is really honest and reads this report thoroughly will see how mere naivete and ignorance on the part of some British officials helped to cripple Nigeria (a British creation) before it was even independent.

Came across this a while ago. Very informative and detailed. However it contains several questionable statements, generalizations, and unsupported conclusions, which betray that its authors only had a vague and general, rather than in-depth knowledge, of some of the things they chose to talk about.

EzeUche!:
the Ijaws are probably the old inhabitants of modern day Nigeria, but were pushed into the creeks by the Igbos and other big groups such as the Edo speaking groups and Yorubas.

I once fell for this claim. But honestly, where is the real evidence for this?

I have yet to see even a single bit of reasonable evidence that supports this claim. In fact, the claim isn't even sensible. It's like claiming most Arabs had to be "pushed into the desert" to be where they are now, just because the desert is considered a less ideal place to live, just as the riverine areas and the creeks are considered a less ideal place to be, from certain perspectives. Nobody pushed the Arabs into the desert. Nobody pushed the Inuit into where they chose to live, and there is no evidence that anybody pushed the Ijaws into anywhere.

The irony here is that in Adaka Boro's autobiography (which is also hosted by this website) he strongly argued against this stereotype/assertion, which had been promoted by a few historians without compelling evidence and was then accepted as gospel. He then quotes other historians who disagree with this claim to bolster his argument.

It also seems the Benin Empire claimed "overlordship" over the Ijaws.

You actually believe that?

Where's the source?

That is just one of several unsupported assertions and conclusions in this report.

Interesting thread and comments so far.

Obiagu1:
Why is this Osu stigma only present in Imo State and probably some part of Abia as well?

One of the most important distinctions the Igbo make in their status system is that between Diala and non-Diala. The Diala is a freeborn, a full citizen, whose status at birth is symbolized by the burial of his umbilical cord, preferably at the foot of an oil palm tree. A Diala is free to attempt to gain a title, the only barrier to social climbing being the membership fees that these institutions demand. In contrast, the Ohu was a slave who had very few rights. However, these slaves were more often as not absorbed into the lineage of the master they served, becoming their companions and often marrying their daughters. An Osu was a cult-slave; they were a people hated and despised , and to refer to a Diala or an Ohu as an Osu was the gravest of insults. The Osu system of slavery originated from the Owerri-Okigwi region. The Diala belief is that the Osu are descended from a people who, at the recommendation of a diviner, were dedicated to a deity, in order that they may become his servitor. A particular village, lineage or individual that had been experiencing illness or misfortune would “dedicate” this slave to the deity, in the belief that the slave would then carry out the sins of the dedicator. The Osu were feared and hated because they reminded the Diala of their guilt. Unlike slaves, they could not be absorbed into their master’s lineage; on the other hand, they were protected by their deity from being sold or killed. The cult-slave status of the Osu was legally abolished by the Eastern Nigerian Government in 1956.

http://www.qub.ac.uk/schools/SchoolofEnglish/imperial/nigeria/govt.htm


^^^^

I wouldn't know if everything on that page is 100% accurate though. Somebody with an insider's knowledge could probably confirm it.

1. With regard to Ife and Benin brasses:

“By and large, since evidence of an Ife stylistic influence has yet to be convincingly demonstrated, a new and independent chronology is needed for Benin art, and this should be structured on internal evidence, rather than on an assumed continuum of Ife naturalism” - Babatunde Lawal, THE PRESENT STATE OF ART HISTORICAL RESEARCH IN NIGERIA: PROBLEMS AND POSSIBILITIES, Journal of African History, XVIII, 2 (1977), pp. 193-2I6


“As for the Ife-Benin succession in bronze casting, recent analysis of mould- and core-stuff does not seem to support the tradition.” - from Sources of Yoruba History (1973), p. 163, edited by Saburi Biobaku


“Ifẹ̀ and Benin employed entirely different methods of the cire-perdue process” -D. Williams, [1974]. Icon & Image: a study of sacred & secular forms of African classical art. p. 208


2. The idea of brass casting from Ife comes largely from Jacob Egharevba. Egharevba actually claimed, originally, that the Edo came from Ife to found Benin. Later he said they stopped at Ife (maybe because he later knew it was untenable to claim the Edo came from Yorubaland and had to clear up his story). But what is relevant to the brass casting tradition is that he originally implies that there was brass casting during the time of the Ogisos (though it is not stated outright), but later replaced this with an introduction by Oba Oguola


"In Ekhere Egharevba writes that the Obagodo, also known as Ogiso, came to Benin with a charm in form of a snail shell, afterwards cast in brass, containing some earth which vested power over land on him"

- A Comparison of Jacob Egharevba's "Ekhere Vb Itan Edo" and the Four Editions of Its English Translation, "A Short History of Benin"
Author(s): Uyilawa Usuanlele, Toyin Falola, Jacob Egharevba
Source: History in Africa, Vol. 25 (1998), pp. 361-386

(Ekhere vb Itan Edo is Egharevba's first manuscript of A Short History of Benin)

This quote could be read as stating that the "afterwards" means at the time of Oba Oguola, but that is a period of nearly 600 years later, going by Egharevba's own dates for the time of the first Ogiso (c. 900 AD) and Oba Oguola (14th century AD). It's more likely the quote reveals that the snail was cast in brass not long after the first Ogiso, rather than for "afterwards"  to mean that it was cast in brass 600 years later.

The statement about brass casting from Ife is not in his original manuscript (Ekhere).

However, later:

"In the first edition of A Short History he adds that:

'Oba Oguola wished to introduce brass casting into Benin so as to produce works of art similar to those sent him from Ife. He therefore sent to the Oni of Ife for a Brass smith and Iguegha was sent to him. Iguegha was very clever and left many designs to his successors, and was in consequence deified, and is worshipped to this day by brass smiths.  The practice of making brass casting for the preservation of the records of events was originated during the reign of Oguola.43'

The difference might seem to be one of adding details about the place of origin of Benin brass work. However, this added detail has largely been disputed by the local Edo scholars. They counter Egharevba's claim with extracts from oral traditions which relate to the use of brass under the Ogisos, to argue that brass work could not have been introduced from Ile-Ife during the reign of Oba Oguola. In using this piece of information, this controversy must be considered along with the issue of what was really introduced under Oba Oguola, whether it was brass casting for preservation of historical records or the brass casting guild. The added detail might have been prompted by the need to an- swer the questioning by some European writers of the indigenous development of brass working. Leo Frobenius' acclaim of Ife art in the 1920s as European-derived was accepted by many writers and officials in Nigeria at that time. This information might have reached Egharevba through his European associates. Since he held the view of an Ife origin for Benin and its kingship institution, and since the brass casters traced their master craftsman to Ile-Ife, it only follows that Egharevba would probably trace Benin brass work to Ile-Ife as well. The differences between Ife and Benin brass-making techniques are already quite known and thus overreliance on Egharevba's account have their own implications."

(from the same article above by Usuanlele and Falola)

On  "Idu"

Idumwonyi can be assumed to be a version of Edomwonyi (Edo is respectable) and Idubor can be assumed to be the same as Edobor, but they are really not the same in all cases. When Idu or Edo is used, the names can sometimes be the same, but not always.

I found that Idu can mean:

a) the spirit of the ancestors of the land

b) The supposed ancestor of the Edo, a man named Idu

c)  the Edo people

For example, the name Idugbowa means Idu (the spirit of the ancestors of the land) has established prosperity for me. There is nothing like "Edogbowa" because Idu and Edo are not really equivalent in all circumstances in the Edo language.

The last of these meanings I listed (c) almost certainly comes later than the original meanings.

Idumwonyi should mean that Idu (the spirit of the ancestors of the land) is respected.

Iduseri means that the spirit of the ancestors of the land has blessed us.

Iduorobo means that the spirit of the ancestors of the land is my doctor/healer

. . .and so on.

That is what Idu really refers to, originally, in the Edo language. However, Idu did come to take on a meaning equivalent to Edo for some names. But it really is not an equivalent, originally, from what I have seen. There are some sources written by Binis where you read that Idu was the original name that preceded Edo, and that may be correct, but Idu had even earlier meanings from what I have read and in the language, meaning (a) above is what Idu usually refers to, rather than meaning (c).


As for Igbos calling the Edo the Idu, taking definition (b) into account, this could be likened to the descendants of a man supposedly called Canaan, being called Canaanites, or the descendants of a man called Shem/Sem being called semites, the descendants of a man called Ham being called Hamites, or the descendants of a man supposedly called Cush being called Cushites by the Hebrews.

lakal:

Huh?

I think he was saying the material composition is different (and it is). Though I can't really speak for him. The material is still brass, though, from what I've read.

This whole case is some law & order/csi stuff now. . .

13 pages?

Blazay's little side show is funny, but it's hard to feel any pity for her about what happened, since she is a married woman who sleeps with married men (according to her).

^^^^^

Another claim from that same website:


"At that conference Prince Adumu was declared the LORD OF THE FORTRESS ‘ALA – AFIN’ (ALA-lord or chief, AFIN-fortress) and henceforth addressed as “ALA-AFIN ADUMU-ALA”. (ALA is still a Chief title amongst the Ijaws). He also took on the alias ‘ODUDUWA’, as it was the term in the Ooyelagbo language for the Mother Goddess of which he was a priest.

In order to unite the opposing factions intermarriage was decreed. This is told in the tradition as the marriage between Obatala & Oduduwa with the birth of the sixteen gods and goddesses. Indeed Prince Adumu took several wives from the local Ooyelagbo women as well as his own Kumoni/Oru women. This policy was adhered to by his successors. Prince (now King) Adumu administered the new City state (military, theocratic confederacy) so skilfully that he was remembered in ancestral tradition as the ancestor of the YOBA NATION, meaning the ORIGINATOR OF THE YOBA NATION. This was how the first Yoba nation came into being and how Ife became the centre of the 1st dynastic city-state in Southern Nigeria. This was also the Ife of the 1st dynastic period. Later on YOBA was corrupted to YORUBA and the term applied to all the people who spoke related dialects/languages, who had centuries later integrated to become one people. The original Kumoni language spoken by the king and his people (Kumoni-Oru) was later on absorbed into the Ooyelagbo language to give rise to Yoruba language and its various dialects."



Really strange stuff.

1. What is "OTHERS"? (In the Ile-Ife region, Benin region, East of the Niger)

2. Where are the Igala? Or are they being considered Northerners, despite the fact that they're clearly not originally Northerners?

3. Ugbo is just a small indigenous group that were absorbed into the Yorubas when they got there, from what I've read.

4. Efa is just a small indigenous group that were absorbed into the Binis when they got there:


"According to P A Talbot (The People’s of Southern Nigeria 1926 pp31-153 “The Benin country appears to have been inhabited by a people called Efa, the ancestors of the present Edo and ruled by a large number of petty chiefs, those at Benin City being the Ogiame, and the Uzama Nihino (The seven Uzama)”


The title Ogiefa (meaning chief/duke/king of the Efa) is a reference to this group. Of course now some (but certainly not all) Ijaws are claiming that this is a reference to them.  

Some people are making all sorts of claims about the seven Uzama, about places being prefixed with the word idumu/idumwun (an Edoid word, found among the Bini, Esan, Owan, etc.), about the name of the first Ogiso (Igodo/Obagodo) being an Ijaw name, and other claims which I think are due to a lack of knowledge about the peoples whose history they are delving into.

lol @ all that Yoruba -Igbo back and forth


The author (Florence Amagiya) is Urhobo.

I have a question for people from Delta state, particularly those who have been to this place.

Are the people of OZA NOGOGO considered Ikas (Igbos)?

I was trying to find anything that showed that they were Igbo, but I could not find anything. They seem to be Binis. If states are to be made perfectly ethnically/linguistically homogeneous, and new states were made, would they be considered Ika or something else?

I think they are actually Bini.


"INTRODUCTION
It is difficult to talk about OZA-NOGOGO without talking about the greater OZA community, a part and parcel of the Benin Kingdom. The name OZA-NOGOGO is a mere geographical expression of the OZA community on the east bank of River Orhiowmon, whereas the OZA on the west bank is known as OZA-ABIOKUNLA(OZA-NISI). Like the country Israel which is located at the heart of the world, OZA was located at the heart of the defunct Bendel State.
The OZA-NOGOGO town is just a part of the greater OZA community that became split between two local governments. Today, a part of OZA(OZA-NOGOGO) is in Ika South Local Government Area of Delta State. The other part(OZA-NISI) is in Orhiowmon Local Government Area of Edo State.

Presently, OZA-NOGOGO is a constituent part of the Agbor Kingdom. It is an Edo speaking part of Agbor."

http://wazoza.com/history.php

http://68articles.com/a-report-on-oza-nogogo-beefore-the-advent-of-the-europeans-17fcacc4.html






http://siris-libraries.si.edu/ipac20/ipac.jsp?uri=full=3100001~!500262!0

http://books.google.com/books?id=dY8eAQAAMAAJ&q=OZA-NOGOGO&dq=OZA-NOGOGO&hl=en&ei=TA3kTf6VO5K3tgeN6umQBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA




They claim they are being marginalized:

http://www.ikaworld.com/index.php?mod=article&cat=news&article=512&page_order=1&act=print

http://wazoza.com/react.php
'
Are these claims of marginalization reasonable? (I read what was in those links, but what I mean is, for those actually on the ground, and taking all other factors into account, are the marginalization claims about their area exactly as stated?)

The hat? I don't know if it's a fila. Can't really tell from that picture, but it could be. Nigerian attire is really mixed between groups because of the adoption of some Hausa/Fulani attire by some southern groups (like Yoruba).

The spambot is at it again. . . .I have responded to Ogbuefi's response that it also banned, and my response can be seen in the profile of "PhysicsHD".


@ everyone in here who I have offended, I apologize, but I still will not sit idly by and let every insult to Binis go unchecked.

. .

2)I have read the posts of Bokohalal and especially Physics MD , both of course of Edo stock from the nature of their writing, I think they are either too young or ignorant to realise the atrocities committed by their folks in Benin City during the war.I will say , well ignorance of course can be forgiven but it important to educate those who are ignorant of those unfornate past events and put some record straight for posterity purposes.

So you believe that "thousands were killed in Benin" and the "streets flowed with blood" and other claims? If some people actually went into detail, others would believe their statements immediately. Nobody is doubting that thousands were killed in the Midwest, but the way the whole thing is presented and this whole anti-Bini crusade is unwarranted to me.

3)The writings of Physics MD is nteresting but it is the mind set of many Benin people tribalism.At least Bokohalal tries to be conciliatory with his remarks and the likes of hysics Md thinks they can re-write what is history, So if the people of Benin were so protective like your grand father , wht did they not counter the claims of the Anioma people when it was brought to the Oputa panel in 2000,

What were these claims at the Oputa panel?


http://www.asabamemorial.org/data/ohanaeze-petition.pdf


http://www.asabamemorial.org/data/oputa-report.pdf


That Anioma people were killed in Benin (which is true) and that some Benin people pointed them out to the soldiers to be killed?

What is there to counter? Who denied anything? I don't know what the point of this question is supposed to be. Are the Binis supposed to go there and protest something they're not denying or thinking about? I don't get it.

At least with all of these eveidence you claim was the fact on griund it would been enough evidence to dismiss such "irresponsible claims" The people ther at least claimed they were eye witnesses to what happened and they were demanding compensation, The Benin massacre as I call it was real.Over 1,000 Anioma civilians were killed and as you rightly noted they were also killings of Anioma people(not Igbo as u claim ) in such towns like Sapele and Warri.

What specific claim about 1000 people being killed in Benin city and the Bini speaking areas were people making? What women and children were hacked to death in the streets by the Binis? What are the actual claims? I just want to know what exactly is being claimed here. Is it that Binis were roaming the streets hacking women and children to death? Or is it that a lot of Igbos were killed in the entire Midwest?

Because of our Midwestern background it becomes easier to prey at us because geographically , we were not Biafrans thus when the genocide against Igbos occured we just became the first victims.In my home town Igbodo, tens were killed and the town almost entirely demolished.The town was in days engulfed with the stench of decomposing human remains.It was that bad.Our Obi was mocked and asked to kneel down to beg for the lives of his people(over 200 of them who were lined up for killing by the federal troops).These people were civilians.

I don't know if this is a problem of comprehension or something, but is Igbodo even in Edo state, not to talk of near Benin city? I don't understand this. Are there a lot of Binis in Igbodo or something? How did Binis mock your Obi or kill 200 people?

In the North, they killed thousands of Igbos Anioma people included, the best and brightest amongst us.One Chief Osadebe,  a business magnate and title holder in Jos was killed and vast properties carted away.In Bauchi one of the siblings of Nduka Okoh who was to become the Acting VC of UNIBEN was killed and now Benin, they killed many of our people and called us "Ovbigbo".One Offor, a school proprietor in my hometown was killed in Benin, there was a case of a man who travelled to Benin to buy milling machine for maize who was killed as well after being exposed by those who he was suppose to buy the machine from as "Ovbigbo" there was even a sad case of a man who just went to my home town to arrange for his marriage and was killed after being exposed by his neighbours as an Igbo man.

There is something which I fundamentally don't understand. Perhaps you could explain it to me. If these Binis are so awful, why even come back? They are envious tribalists, as you attested to all throughout this post. Then why do any Igbos even bother coming back? You're only setting yourself up for conflict. I don't understand why there are so many people where they are supposedly loathed. It makes no sense.

I mean, there is no reason to go to Benin. It's not Lagos, not Abuja, not Port Harcourt ,etc. So why is anybody else there when, to top it all off, the indigenes are supposedly unbearable?

4)In my family close relative via marriage and a civil servant then  in the Ministry of Justice in the course of the crisis sent his wife and children to the village .But he stayed put.I dont know why but the reports I got was that there was a rampant looting of properties held by Anioma people by the indigenes.This claim is not far fetched.The Anioma to this day have always because of their superior level of education had dominated the civil service and somehow had enjoyed a higher standard of living which must have been a source of envy and admiration of theri Benin hosts.Of course , when the problems came , it was the right opportunity for those with siniter intents to strike.My relative was a victim.His landlord along Cooke road then one Bright(as he calls him ) unknown to him called a group of the federal troops to his house where he said an Igbo was residing.this was a man that dines with him and helps occassionally in finance.When he heard funny sounds he quickly dashed to an excellent hiding place and when the troops stormed the apartment, they could not find anybody.They accuse Bright of deceiving them, Where is the Igbo man ? they asked and he told they perhaps he might have escaped somehow, Then the troops saw the dog kept by my relative family and shot it dead.

His landlord was envious of him?

I suspect the federal troops probably just asked him if he had any Igbos in his house because they wanted to find some Biafrans or spies and the man complied, but since he knew your relative personally, then that's a particularly shameful act and a betrayal.

5)When , he was sure that the murderous federal troops had left, at night , he quitely sneaked into the bush.Benin was small and bushy those days and  from the bush after wandering from civilization fro some days and in hunger, he stumbled an Urhobo hunter in the Jesse axis , who took pity on him , fed him and hid him in a camp in the bush.Somehow, a villager from he hunters village discovered him in the bush and went to the village and told them that their relative had hidden an Igbo man in the bush.They got to the site with the intent to perhaps kill the helpless man but lest they knew, that the hunter who was aware of their evil plans quickly got to where he hid my relative and told him what would be his fate if he does not leave there.My relative told him, he was from the Agbor area and pleaded with him to show him the route to the area.The hunter took him to what is now Sakponba-Agbor road and asked him to go straight.On his way, tired he encountered another group of federal troops who captured him and bundled him in a truck.He thought that was his last.They brought him back to Benin and took him to a refugee camp ran by the Red Cross.It was there he heard that the systematic anihiliation of Anioma people by their Benin hosts had stopped because of the bad image it brought to the Govt of Nigeria.Everywhere , were thousands of refugees of Anioma origin, those who survived the onslaught and without their properties.This is a true live story and I am not into swearing but my God knows what I am saying is the truth.Igbos generally should start documenting the atrocities meted on them by those who say they belong to the same country with them.

The whole angle you're putting to this story makes no sense to me so perhaps you could be clearer. The Benin hosts were at one point carrying out a "systematic" "annihilation" of Anioma people, but the soldiers were running things and later even bringing people from Agbor to be kept in a refugee camp in Benin City?

What was this systematic annihilation of Anioma people by the Benin hosts? Just a few specifics.

6)THE MURDERS OF THE COUP OF JANUARY 1966, Before I digress into that let me quote this culled from the Oct 12 , 1960 Parrot Newspapers and this was what the Saudana of Sokoto has to say about the new nation Nigeria " The New nation called Nigeria shall be the estate of our great grand father Othman dan Fodio.We must ruthlessly prevent a change of power.We use the minorities in the North as willing tools and the South as a conquered territory and never allow them to rule over us and never allow them to have control over their future"

Not a fan of the Sardauna, but that quote hasn't actually been authenticated/confirmed. I'll believe it when I see evidence that he was interviewed and said what is claimed. Junk journalism in Nigeria didn't necessarily start recently.

Thus this why he desparately rigged the elections in the West to favour his unpopular lackey Akintola and thousands were killed as a result.

There are whole other threads dedicated to that.

The Prime Minister was helpless because he being instructed by the Saudana eventhuogh by the constitution he was the most powerful politician.That coup of 1966 was not the first coup in Africa and by my count only 11 people died including an Igbo , one Unegbe.

No, more people were killed than 11, but that's irrelevant to this thread/discussion.

Incidentally that coup consume those who were responsible for the crisis and people positively received the coup.

For a while, until the actual details of coup became known to some Northern soldiers, and until the whole Ironsi saga.

It was when the British and top civil servants mainly from the North in response to Ironsi becoming the new leader that the coup was branded "Igbo coup" though a Yoruba Adegboyega(I hope I am right with this name) was involved.

Ademoyega.

Of course they did their counter coup, thousands of Igbo born military officers were killed.The first man who was killed in Abeokuta barracks , one Okonweze was a native of Asaba.Not tired with their "counter coup" they began to kill Igbo residents in the North and within three months, they killed over 30,000 civilians.Mr Physics Md, You are wicked to post just one aspect of what transpired in this country just to fulfil one useless point in your arguement.

You didn't even understand what I posted.

People claimed that it was an "Igbo coup" because a large majority of the coup plotters were Igbo.

People went on to claim that Igbos celebrated in the North or rubbed the murders of Northern leaders in the face of their Northern counterparts, based on a few claims about a few incidents.

My point was that attaching some large blame to some whole group on the basis of the actions of some members of that group is no different from the mentality of those that claimed that it was an Igbo coup or that Igbos were celebrating the death of the Sardauna in the North. I don't know how that went over your head.

7)Indeed the Anioma people have moved on with their lives and somehow the God of justice have replenished them.At one time our detractors thought we will nevr grow.They wiped out the male population of Asaba thinking that they will never grow,But go to that town , there are men everywhere.It looked like a miracle.Aniomaland is no doubt the most transformed part of the old Midwest region especially since 1999.

Okay, but it's not a paradise. Perhaps you have lower standards for what constitutes a paradise than me.

I would not like to go into comparison between the Anioma people and the ir Benin neighbours yet.

I'm pretty sure you did just that below.

On the claims of Igbos attempting to stal Benin lands

Nobody claimed Igbos were attempting to steal Benin land.

I find this claim funny.It is the Edo, that have annexed the Anioma towns of Igbanke and Ekpon and want to force them by all means to become Edos.

On the issue of Igbanke, those people are just confused, and they should sort themselves out first in order to stop giving people the wrong impression. Nobody will think you are Edo if you take the appropriate action and abandon Edo culture. I read somebody who said in another thread in this same section of the forum that he used to think Owo people were Edo rather than Yoruba. Now if somebody can make that mistake about the Owo, what are people going to think when they encounter somebody who actually uses Edo names?

And do the Esan people even know that the people of Ekpon are Anioma? I mean, that if I went to some other place in Igueben LGA, and asked the average person on the street if the people of Ekpon were anything but Esan, what would they say?

Now if you think a group are the same as you, but they aren't, then you have been deceived.

It doesn't mean that you're an expansionist.

The Esan would probably not react positively to the accusation that they are expansionists, with all those years that they spent resisting Bini expansionism.

It might not have occurred to you that if the people of Ekpon don't show that they are Igbo, but instead seem to be Esan or Edo with a mere "dab" of Igbo culture, that the other people around them are blameless in thinking they are what they appear to be. I mean, what exactly is in that one village of Ekpon that you think other people (the Esan) feel the need to claim?

The Anioma people will retrieve these stolen territory it is a question of time.

Hopefully they will go their separate way. I think there's no need for a whole ethnic group to be accused of trying to steal a few villages. It even sounds silly.

But the question of whether Ekpon can be ceded to Delta state, will require the people of Ekpon to come and say something about wanting to leave Edo state and they'll need to completely divorce their language from that of the Esan (it's considered a dialect of Esan) and learn Igbo or something.

Now for comparisons between the Benin and Anioma.PhysisMD says Anioma is no paradise, but Benin is neither and in fact Benin is in a more appaling and laughable situation.Omonuan was right.Benin is just one city ethnic group.Even the city was in a deplorable state before Oshiomhole gave it a face lift but a lot needs to be done considering the size of the city.Benin Coty from her size ranks 9th amongst the largest cities of Nigeria.The larger cities of Nigeria in population include Lagos, Abuja, Kano, Ibadan, Onitsha, Kaduna, Port HARCOURT ad Enugu.Benin is the least is growth rate and least industrialized ,

There's no way that Benin could compete with Lagos or Abuja.

I don't even need to go into how Lagos was developed by the British and then by Gowon. Don't need to explain it's growth rate.

Abuja was built and is currently being built with loads of oil money. It's growth rate is due to people flocking there to take advantage of its amenities.

Port Harcourt is another British founded and oil money developed city. The allocation from Rivers state is significantly greater than Benin's among other things.

As for Ibadan, early on, during the AG Western region government, Ibadan was built with Western region cocoa money while Benin was ignored. See Nowa Omoigui's writeup on the Midwest referendum for more. Currently Ibadan is much larger than Benin (despite the fake population figures), so I don't see why there's a question about which city has a higher growth rate or more industries.

Kano has always been larger than Benin due to people flocking there, and it has always had more trade, but as far as development goes, you can thank Sani Abacha for that. Just stolen money, really.

Yes, I have heard there are industries in Kaduna, but that's just another oil project. I can't imagine that city or that very poor state (Kaduna) standing by itself without oil.

Yeah, Onitsha is doing well. Nothing to really dispute there. And no offense, but I think some groups would get more credit, if they didn't try to use their success to put other people down. For some reason, that little bit of common sense is not so common.

Enugu is clean and nice looking because, like Calabar, it was planned/set up by the British. But for the record, Enugu, unlike Benin, is not one of the major financial or economic centers of the country:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-557357.0.html

Your overall point here seems to be that the Binis are not reproducing at a high enough rate to compete with mostly larger and mostly better funded cities of larger ethnic groups? Or do you have a real point here?

even Agbor has more industries than Benin.

I've been to Agbor multiple times. What are these industries?

Imagine Benin without the influx of people to Europe and remittances sent back to Nigeria , it would have been a dead zone.Let us be sincere.This is the case in Benin City, Go to the villages and you will see the kind of backwardness in the area.
There was a time I was travelling between Asaba to Benin.Virtually all the villages of the Anioma area had electricity whereas their counterparts in Benin were in complete darkness.

If that's the truth (I haven't visited every village in Edo state, or anything), then Delta state's governors and its greater allocation have served it well. A corrupt governor that at least develops his state (lbori and co.), is definitely better than a Lucky Igbinedion any day.

Anyways, Igbinedion is on trial, so nobody's pretending there wasn't a screwup in Edo state.

Take a critical look between Igbanke an Anioma town forcefuly being claimed by benins

I don't understand what the point of this propaganda is.

If this very day the Binis got up and started a movement to get Igbanke out of Edo state and into Delta state, I bet you and those very Igbanke people would also accuse them of bigotry, or trying to engage in "ethnic purification" or something silly. But if the Igbanke mistakenly get included in some sort of larger "Edoid" state which includes almost every "Edoid" group except the Urhobo/Isoko, because of how they (the Igbanke) appear on the surface, the Binis are accused of annexation, as if the Binis of all people masterminded and planned out the division of Bendel state.

and the largest Edo village of Urhonigbe.Incidentally both of them are in the same LGA Orhionmwon, Whereas Igbanke is quite developed, what will first greet you in Urhonigbe are jigger flies and that town is dirty and there are no signs of development, This is the case of Urhonigbe for the smaller villages , it is even a more pathetic case.

Never been to either place, so I won't dwell too much on this.

http://www.edofolks.com/html/pub23.htm

^^^^

I'm not sure the scenario is as simple as

Igbanke = Anioma, and therefore is doing decently

Urhonigbe = Bini and therefore is doing badly

There seem to be other factors involved.

The boast that we have illustrious sons and daughters is borne out of the fact that barely 40 years ago, we had barely nothing.My family for instance lost our properties in Calabar and we had to start a new life in Aba.My father was paid a paltry 4 pounds(N8) as compensation.But today, I am not hungry by the grace of God and I  feed better than many of those whose had more than N8 in 1971.That is why as a people so oppressed , we need to celebrate the achievers amongst us.

Good for you.

It is not as if I am just being boastful but Aniomaland have produced more VIPs than the other parts of the Midwest put together.

Not necessarily. You're possibly just a bit provincial, so you haven't bothered to find out about all those great Itsekiris, Urhobos, Esan and Etsakos that the Midwest has produced.


Notice I didn't say Binis. Not because we haven't produced anybody great, but because if I included that particular group, you might start foaming at the mouth like some rabid bush animal.

Even in UNIBEN, Anioma born Prof Nwanze was the VC before a native Benin man
became the VC of that great institution.

It's silly statements like these that made some Binis realize they had to turn tribalistic for a change, before some clowns tried to bamboozle them, with absurd claims of being more deserving of the position. I'm glad that Professor Osayuki Oshodin is the VC and hopefully they won't make the same mistake that they did, of deliberately avoiding some group just to not make it seem like that group was supposed  to head the institution. Using tribalism to prevent possibly tribalistic Bini "control" of the university is still tribalism. Preemptive tribalism is senseless.

Anioma people have not just done themselves proud in just banking, In fact in every field of endeavour.Whereas the Edo used blackmail and intimidation to get Rev Imasuen to be ordained as the Anglican Bishop of Benin, the Anioma people have produced the likes of Rev Nicholas Okoh as the head of Anglican Church in Nigeria, We have Rev Chima Iweha of Abuja Methodist Diocese, We have Bishop Gbuji of Enugu Catholic Archdiocese, I just recalled that they almost used the same mechanism they used in installing Imasuen to foist a Benin born Bishop of the Catholic Archdiocese, That one no work.

I don't even know (and don't care that much, to be honest) what this is about. You could elaborate. This is all I came across:


"Guobadia had told reporters at his residence in Benin City that he was
“not disturbed by my arraignment” and neither was it an
embarrassment to him. He said that the situation could have been
embarrassing if he had been convicted of the 4-count charge of
defamation and publishing false information against the Anglican
Bishop.

He said his desire was to ensure that the case got to its logical
conclusion, insisting that the Anglican Bishop was guilty of the
allegation in the publication he made in 2008 declaring that he got a
church member, Ms Gladys Adetokhai pregnant and then procured an
abortion for her. Dr. Guobadia declared in confidence that he was
certain that “at the end of the day, the world will see that he is not
supposed to be a Bishop in the first place.”

The agitation for the breakup of the diocese of Benin began prior to
2008. All the crisis the went through for half a decade, between 1995
and 2001, which had ethnical coloration involving Benin and non-Benin
members was all about a new diocese.

The melee at this time saw the exit many non-Benin from the Anglican
Church. In October 2008, the agitation took a new dimension as some
Igbo worshippers wanted exclusive control of the Revd Payne Anglican
Church in New Benin area of Benin City, which they dominated as
worshippers.

But many non-Igbo worshippers objected, as protesting youths carried
placards on a Sunday to condemn what they described as undue ethnicity
in the Church of Christ. Some placards had read, “No to Christian
tribalism, No to Igbo seizure of Anglican Church, Anglican Church is
for all, not for Igbos alone.”

After the Police prevented the breakdown of law and order in the
church and the Bishop shut down the church, a prominent church leader
accused Bishop Imasuen of threatening his life and he was
interrogated.

But Dr Guobadia, a past Nigerian Ambassador to South Korea once put it
as elders of the church it was better to be on the side of the truth.
Of Imasuen he said “If you say you are a Bishop, why will you be
arresting your members because of the truth? But we are not bothered
because we believe that the leadership of the Anglican Communion will
find solution to the problem”.


"There are indications that the church was closed down on the orders of
the Anglican Bishop of Benin City, Dr Peter Imasuen, who ensured that
access to the church premises and hall of worship became impossible.

Sources say that the decision to close the church to worshippers was a
reaction to the unusual demand by leaders of the Igbo community who
are the dominant ethnic group in the church in terms of population for
preferential treatment.

The Igbos are also believed to be the major financiers of the many
development projects within the church including paying the priests
and the ongoing multimillion Naira expansion project to accommodate
more worshippers.

Considering this fact, the Igbo leaders were said to have met and sent
a powerful request to the Bishop to adopt a permanent policy of
sending only Igbo-speaking priests to man the church in their own
interest of worshipping God exclusively in Igbo language.

But many non-Igbo worshippers objected. In October 2008, protesting
youths carried placards and disrupted a Sunday service to condemn what
they described as undue ethnicity in the Church of Christ.

Some of their placards read, “No to Christian tribalism”, “No to Igbo
seizure of Anglican Church”, “Anglican Church is for all, not for
Igbos alone”.

The youths’ calculation was that since other ethnic groups are fewer
in population and with an Igbo priest conducting services in Igbo
language, other ethnic groups would be forced to go elsewhere for
worship.

Bishop Imasuen reasoned with the youths and decided that it would be
unwise for a church located on Edo soil where the Benin people are the
most populous of all ethnic groups in the state to hold exclusive Igbo
language services.

He felt that the previous practice where services were conducted in
two major languages of Igbo and Benin was better, but the Igbo leaders
would have none of this.

In the end he closed down the church. All that was two years ago. Last
week there were indications that the church may soon be reopened,
considering pleas by eminent Anglicans to Bishop Imasuen.

According to Ven Smart Eke, the chief security officer of the Church,
the Bishop is now disposed to reopening the church since many of
those who led the movement for the Igbo interest have left to build
another church and have applied to the Primate of the Anglican
Communion for recognition.

He said once the church reopens, services will continue to be
conducted in three languages namely English, Edo and Igbo, as it was
before the agitations began."


http://osehobo./

It would seem this Dr. Imasuen isn't exactly held in high esteem in all quarters of Benin, going by what the late Dr. Guobadia had to say about him.

But I don't see what you're bragging about here. It would seem Igbos dominate Anglicanism in Benin and Catholicism in all of Nigeria. And? Is that a bragging point?

If they wanted an Edo bishop of Benin, why is it your headache? I mean, why do you care? Do you even live in Benin? And if they had appointed yet another Igbo and continued doing so, imbeciles would just be writing about how:

"Even the Anglican Bishop of Benin, Anioma born Dr. Igbokwenuezechineke was the tenth Bishop before a native Benin man held that great position"

and later, even bigger imbeciles would be pressing for only Igbo language churches, as if the purpose of churches is ethnic empowerment, rather than bringing in and keeping as many people as possible to that particular religious creed so they can improve their lives.

On all that wahala to get an Edo man as Bishop, I don't really care about it, and I think it's silly, and don't' think most Binis are Catholic to begin with, but if it'll prevent idiots like you from insinuating some kind of superiority on the basis of having more bishops (which is even sillier), then I have no problem with all that Edo zoning stuff.

9)I think the Anioma and Edo has got over the bitter past and sad relationship of the recent past.However what is important is that people should not just post rubbish here because they feel they can write,I just saw the claim that Biafran troops killed Hausa civilians, Na wa ! When and where did that happen ? Because I know of the only killings of the Hausa people were those (in 1966) who were killed at Obigbo in particular said to number abt 300 for the retaliation of their own progrom in the North.The Biafran started in 1967 when virtually all the Hausas left South except those of military and para military positions.When the Biafran backed Midwest Igbo forces took ove Benin, I insist from all records that not even a single civilian was killed.I challenege anyone to contradict this

Hausas in the Lagos Street area of Benin. There are some books written on that war you know. There's that book by John de St. Jorre. But there's also this book, A Biafran Soldier’s Survival from the Jaws of Death, by Jerome Agu Nwadike. The book is full of distortions, but even he is not silly enough to deny it. And there were a few civilians who died in jail in Biafra, Anyway, that's another topic.