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 Culture › Re: Benin Art And Architecture by PhysicsRND(m): 3:44am On Mar 21, 2011 |
Behind the rather unimpressive exterior (Plate Af) of the house of Chief lyase the Younger lies one of the best preserved examples of a chief's house still to be found in the city, although various alterations have been made to it from time to time, particularly to the street frontage where a small brick portico has been added. The general lines of the plan (fig. 2) |
| Culture › Re: Benin Art And Architecture by PhysicsRND(m): 3:29am On Mar 21, 2011 |
^^^ I would have to point out that contrary to the assertions in the above, the courtyard and impluvium arrangements found throughout all of southern Nigeria (not just Benin) do not derive from Rome, Egypt, or the Portuguese.  Smh @ the hyperdiffusionism. Regardless, the article is valuable for its other information. |
| Culture › Re: Benin Art And Architecture by PhysicsRND(m): 3:24am On Mar 21, 2011 |
Indeed, so striking is the resemblance to Roman examples that theories have been advanced linking the Benin plans with Roman sources via Egypt. The internal courtyard, however, is a typical Mediterranean feature and here is more likely to be due to Portuguese influence. Or perhaps the Portuguese simply introduced some formality into the courtyard arrangement which in itself is common throughout southern Nigeria. The various courtyards may be with or without a peristyle of columns, depending on their size, but a common feature in them all are couches and shrines constructed entirely of mud, the surface of which is polished to a high glaze and has a remarkable quality of endurance so that even the oldest examples appear to have been but recently built. The sequence of courtyards culminates in the private apartments of the chief, while on each side are arranged the wives' and boys' quarters. Externally the mud walls are finished in a pattern of horizontal ribs, a fashion of building which has now practically died out, and old houses are usually recognizable by this kind of work. The roofs were originally of thatch-it was through one of these roofs catching alight that the Great Fire began-but this has now been replaced practically everywhere by corrugated iron, although the old method of providing a thatched coping on a light wooden framework to the tops of courtyard walls still persists. In contrast to Yoruba and Ibo houses the roof construction is of heavy timbers carefully framed together around the opening in the roof, and they are sometimes ornamented with carving. Doors and their jambs and the wooden posts supporting the peristyle around the larger courtyards are often ornamented in the same way. |
| Culture › Re: Benin Art And Architecture by PhysicsRND(m): 3:24am On Mar 21, 2011 |
BENIN HOUSES The primitive huts of the Plateau may hardly deserve the name of architecture, but at Benin a highly developed method of mud building and a traditional and formal way of house-planning have combined to produce buildings of real architectural quality. At the height of its power Benin was the prosperous capital of a powerful empire. The city was laid out on a formal pattern of broad streets running at right angles to each other along which the houses were built to a regular frontage, a rare thing for Africa. After the punitive expedition of I897 the major part of the city was destroyed by fire, but in the modern town the ancient formal plan is still recognizable, while around the perimeter can be traced the outline of the great wall. This was originally double-palisaded with thick tree trunks, against which were laid spars five or six feet long fastened together and plastered over with red clay, while in front of it was a ditch and a hedge of thorns. The wall is now entirely ruined and in many places is so overgrown with bush that the traces of it are practically lost. Most of the buildings in the African town are little more than mean shacks, sub- divided over and over again with a separate family occupying each compartment, but there still remain a few chiefs' houses planned in the traditional manner, while in the surrounding villages there are some important buildings which certainly antedate the Great Fire (Plate Ag). The houses of Benin chiefs are planned so that the rooms are arranged around a series of internal courtyards (Plate Ae), leading one into the other much on the pattern of the Classical Roman house with its sequence of atria. In the centre of the roof of each courtyard is a hole which serves to admit light and air, while immediately below it in the floor is a sunken impluvium with an outlet to carry away the storm water. |
| Culture › Re: Benin Art And Architecture by PhysicsRND(m): 3:21am On Mar 21, 2011 |
https://img607.imageshack.us/img607/3690/acourtyardinthehouseoft.jpg |
| Culture › Re: Benin Art And Architecture by PhysicsRND(m): 3:20am On Mar 21, 2011 |
https://img4.imageshack.us/img4/65/theexteriorofthehouseof.jpg |
| Culture › Re: Edo Colonized Yorubaland Not Vice Versa. by PhysicsRND(m): 1:00am On Mar 10, 2011 |
[quote author=X-factoria]Thanks PhysicsMHD. I have resolved the ban issue. Let me quickly point out a misconception here. You keep getting things mixed up about Ooni's statement featured in this link: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-392592.64.html#msg7726462 "Since Oranmiyan dynasty started in Benin, all the heads of the Obas of Benin on demise were buried in Ife in a sacred place called “Orun-Oba-Ado†up to the year 1900. 4. Records in the archives made it clear that since 1191AD, the Ooni of Ife had to be informed, and clearance must be given by him on the new Oba of Benin to be installed up to 1916" Ooni mentioned that only the head of the Obas were buried in Ife. It is possible that the bodies were buried in Benin with slaves like you suggested in your previous posts. Ooni may not be wrong here except you can proof that the Oba's heads were buried with them in the graves in Benin. I feel strongly that very soon either you or me will sponsor an archeological research to unravel the truth about this. Certainly, it has to be so one day.[/quote]The response: PhysicsMHD: Let me point out some misconceptions 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Politics › Re: Urgent Answers Needed by PhysicsRND(m): 10:46pm On Mar 09, 2011 |
ezeagu:What university? Remember, this is a 17th century date (1643). So unless we can find Kanuri or Fulani who had graduated at that time from a Sahelian or North African university, the Itsekiri would be earlier. |
| Politics › Re: Urgent Answers Needed by PhysicsRND(m): 10:21pm On Mar 09, 2011 |
On a related note, the first Nigerian graduate seems to have been an Itsekiri. "The Itsekiri king Olu Antonio Dom Domingo a 17th century graduate of Coimbra University in Portugal" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itsekiri I'll have to look into this and verify it. If true, then the Itsekiri produced the first Nigerian graduate and the first Nigerian woman to obtain a Ph.D (Grace Alele Williams). @ U de vex? Itsekiri are sometimes considered Yoruba. |
| Culture › Re: The True Extent Of Alaigbo (Igboland) by PhysicsRND(m): 5:31am On Feb 19, 2011 |
alj harem:rofl  |
| Politics › Re: Video Footage Of Aguiyi-ironsi, Nzeogwu, Sardauna’s House, Katsina…. by PhysicsRND(m): 5:20am On Feb 19, 2011 |
ezeagu:Lol, point is, the supposed ancestor of the Edo people is not mythical either if people say he's not. The first guy (Osahon) took a mythical approach. The second guy didn't. I only posted the first guy's story to put the Idu/Oduduwa figure in context for the second story, which is not mythological and claims a specific date. |
| Politics › Re: Yorubas Do Not Own Lagos, The Ijaws Do. The Mahins, Ilajes And Aworis Are Ijaws by PhysicsRND(m): 5:14am On Feb 19, 2011 |
[quote author=EzeUche_ link=topic=607521.msg7759168#msg7759168 date=1298088260]I do not believe this for one main reason. Many of the Niger-Congo groups were already in present day Nigeria, prior to the birth of Islam in 610 CE. And Islam did not arrive into Africa until 750 CE. The Arab conquest of the Sudan happened much later, because of the Nubian kingdoms prevented them from expanding into the interior of the continent. That is why I do not believe that hypothesis. I tend to believe that the Ijaws left the other Niger-Congo groups far earlier than the rest of the groups. And probably were pushed into the swamps, by the much larger groups such as the Igboid and Edoid speaking groups. Or the other hypothesis that they arrived from the sea since they have an affinity for the sea. "The Ijoid languages form a branch of the Niger-Congo family and are noted for their Subject Object Verb basic word order, which is otherwise an unusual feature in Niger-Congo[b], shared only by such distant branches as Mande and Dogon[/b]. Like Mande and Dogon, Ijoid lacks even traces of the noun class system considered characteristic of Niger-Congo, and so may have split early from that family."[/quote]That's correct. I don't buy the Arab part of his statement for one minute. However it's still valid in the general sense to me. I suspect the "Sudanic" migration (if it happened) was much much earlier because there is artistic evidence linking Nok/Igbo-Ukwu/Ife/Benin that suggests a possible Egyptian/Nubian connection. I'll open a separate thread about it though in the politics or culture section. |
| Politics › Re: Video Footage Of Aguiyi-ironsi, Nzeogwu, Sardauna’s House, Katsina…. by PhysicsRND(m): 5:01am On Feb 19, 2011 |
ezeagu:I don't think you followed the story. Osanobua (God) created/birthed Idu/Oduduwa. Idu = Adam (more or less) Nobody says Adam had to fall from the sky in Judaism, Christianity, or Islam. Anyways, like I said, only the unscientific, mythology leaning types could believe stuff like that. |
| Politics › Re: Video Footage Of Aguiyi-ironsi, Nzeogwu, Sardauna’s House, Katsina…. by PhysicsRND(m): 4:48am On Feb 19, 2011 |
ezeagu:Not according to Binis. I was quoting Binis, so. . . |
| Politics › Re: Yorubas Do Not Own Lagos, The Ijaws Do. The Mahins, Ilajes And Aworis Are Ijaws by PhysicsRND(m): 4:47am On Feb 19, 2011 |
Onlytruth:It's just a theory. We had discussed it earlier and I was a bit puzzled about the Ijaws' origin. And as far as aborigine, what is obviously meant is relative aborigine. If the Ijaws were in all the places they are claiming 2000+ years before anybody else, then their aboriginal (relative aborigine) claim could have some weight. But from the kind of language they speak, regardless of whether they were somewhat isolated from other groups, if all the Niger-Congo groups arrived due to migrations from the "Sudan" or somewhere even further away in east Africa, they too are just immigrants and don't need to be propping up this aboriginal inhabitants of the creeks, coasts, swamps, deltas, etc. argument. I know it doesn't have significance to the situation on the ground, where whoever has the best and most guns will win the land, but on a purely intellectual level, I want to know whether they are indeed some kind of aboriginal group that's being screwed over by the "big bad northern and southern Nigerian invaders and marginalizers". In the wake of seeing this (non-Arab, non- Afro-Asiatic) Sudanese/Bantu black African dichotomy, I would have to lean towards them being little different from the rest of the Niger-Congo groups and dismiss the aborigine theory (which P. Amaury Talbot, Adaka Boro, and other people propagated) as propaganda. (P.S. I don't belong to the group that mostly believes Oduduwa fell from heaven so I don't know you're bringing that up) |
| Politics › Re: Video Footage Of Aguiyi-ironsi, Nzeogwu, Sardauna’s House, Katsina…. by PhysicsRND(m): 4:34am On Feb 19, 2011 |
lol so he didn't descend from the sky? Ok.  Suuuuuurrrre. |
| Culture › Re: The True Extent Of Alaigbo (Igboland) by PhysicsRND(m): 4:29am On Feb 19, 2011 |
What French came in contact with the Ijaw? Name the places, dates, etc. |
| Politics › Re: Yorubas Do Not Own Lagos, The Ijaws Do. The Mahins, Ilajes And Aworis Are Ijaws by PhysicsRND(m): 4:17am On Feb 19, 2011 |
@ Ezeuche In another thread when you were asking about the Ijaws, I said there was no evidence that they were truly indigenous or aboriginal to all those places they were claiming more than other Nigerians. This should provide some insight; I think this theory about the Niger-Congo (as opposed to Bantu or Afro-Asiatic) language speakers is plausible. "As to the people. The country is occupied by two tribes, the Isokos and the Erakwa. The Erakwa are but small in number, probably not more than two thousand; they occupy a few villages near Patani; there are also a few of them living at Abo. Although they have a language of their own, for practical purposes they may be reckoned as Isokos, as they are of the same racial stock. Their neighbours on the north and east are the Abos; on the west the Sobos; and the south the Western (or Patani) Ijaws. The Abos, who take their name from their chief town, Abo, and are ruled by the Obi (i.e. "King" of Abo,are a branch of the Ibo nation, and speak a dialect of Ibo. Unlike other Ibos, they are at home on the water, and can handle canoes pretty well, better perhaps than the Isokos can; they like, whenever possible, to have their villages on the water-side. They have a number of villages in the Isoko Country, e.g. Ase, Ibredini, Adiawali, Umoru, Onia; all of which are bilingual, Isoko and Abo. Abos are friendly with, but slightly contemptuous of, the Isokos, whom they regard as ignorant but harmless savages. The attitude of the Ijaws to the Isokos is very different; a feeling of intense hatred exists between the two tribes, and there is sure to be friction whenever they come into contact. The Ijaws never refer to Isokos (or Erakwa) as such, but always call them Igabo, as do the Abos also; similarly the Isokos refer to Ijaws as Ahworia. Both of these are epithets meaning savage, cannibal, or bushman. The Ijaws are a water-loving people, inhabiting the lower parts of the delta, and are far more at home in a canoe than they are on land. The Isokos and Erakwa are related to the Sobos and Binis; all four may be regarded as branches of the Edo (or Benin) nation. The Isokos claim to have "come from Benin," and undoubtedly at one time were directly ruled by the Obba (or "King" of Benin. It is as well to remark that too much importancemust not be attached to this claim to have "come from Benin," seeing that the Isokos' ancient enemies, the Patani Ijaws, also make a similar claim. Until about fifteen years ago the Isokos had been almost untouched by European influence, unlike Ijaws, Abos, and Sobos. Previously anything that had been known about them were reports and rumours spread by the hostile Ijaws or contemptuous Abos; so we always find them called Igabos. For instance, in 'Up the Niger,' narrative of Major Claude MacDonald's mission to the Niger and Benue rivers, which left England in June 1889, there is the following notice: "Descending the river (i.e. the Warri or Forcados River) at a rapid rate for 10 miles or so, we came to the mouth of the Ase river, which flows in from the north. A short distance up this tributary lies the trading station of Ase. The inhabitants of the country belong to the Patani tribe, a people chiefly remarkable for their treachery, lawlessness, and love of plunder." (A good description of the Patani Ijaws, but not of the Ase people, who are perfectly respectable Abos!) Also: "The Ijaw language is said to be peculiar in that it is closely connected with that of the Sobos" (this is incorrect). "About the Agabos little is known at present. They are not a large tribe, but occupy several villages on both banks of the Wari River" (now known as the Forcados). "They speak a distinct language, and appear to be industrious agriculturalists and oil producers." Again, Major A. G. Leonard, in 'The Lower Niger and its Tribes,' pub? lished 1906: "To the north of the Jekri are the Sobo, and to the eastward are the Igabo?shy and timid, no doubt, but treacherous and rude." (That sounds as though the Major got his information from an Ijaw.) He also notes that their language is akin to Sobo and descended from Bini; and that it is different from Ijaw. The Isokos, like the Ibos, Ijaws, and Edos, are a Sudanese (not Bantu) people. Their original home was much farther north, in the Sudan. Presumably, at the time of Arab expansion some centuries ago, these Sudanese tribes were driven by the Arabs from their homes southward into the Equatorial Forest region. Arrived there, the strongest tribes seized the best country, and the weaker ones had to be content with what was left." - "The Isoko Country, Southern Nigeria" Author(s): John W. Hubbard Source: The Geographical Journal, Vol. 77, No. 2 (Feb., 1931), pp. 110-120 http://www.jstor.org/stable/1784387?seq=7 (If you have access to jstor) I think the Niger Congo language speaking Africans did all come from the east and northeast (the "Sudan" (this is a much larger area than the current country), but probably at a very early time (more than 5000 years ago). Ijaws aren't aboriginals or indigenous. No Niger-Congo language speakers are indigenous or aboriginals to Nigeria or any countries to the West. |
| Politics › Re: Great/famous People From Your State! by PhysicsRND(m): 3:58am On Feb 19, 2011 |
[quote author=Ileke-IdI link=topic=606540.msg7758972#msg7758972 date=1298083957]Ok now, ppl are just looking through their state's graduation records. How are these ppl famous?  [/quote]The title did also say "great." It's obvious it was just about big names for the OP, but he left some room there to include people who aren't famous. |
| Politics › Re: Great/famous People From Your State! by PhysicsRND(m): 3:57am On Feb 19, 2011 |
RoadStar:Can you substantiate that? |
| Politics › Re: Abacha Never Stole, Say Buhari by PhysicsRND(m): 3:51am On Feb 19, 2011 |
"And while Buhari's tribunals which tried the civilian governors threw them in jail with terms ranging from 5 years to 250 years, it was on record that the cost of keeping the military governors he appointed was more than that of their civilian predecessors (A practice which continued into the Babangida years) Everybody in Nigeria knew that Abacha was an usurper, and that he was uncontrollably corrupt and was also involved in state sponsored murder, but Buhari who you paint in such glowing colours, still agreed to serve under such a man as the chairman of PTF. As chairman of PTF, he made his own cousin the sole consultant for monitoring and assessing the value of contracts. Afriproject consortium was so corrupt that at the inception of Abdulsalami's regime, fearful of exposure, Buhari's cousin committed suicide in his office. When the books of PTF were opened, the can of worms was so much that Haruna Adamu said he felt sickened by it. One body determined the contracts to be awarded, the payments to be made and whether the contracts had been satisfied. Do you know PTF estate in Wuse? The sweetheart deal that Buhari's PTF made with the contractor was so sweet. Not only would the contractor collect rent from PTF, but after 8 years, the place would be his to own! Also, it is on record that though most of the monies which accrued to PTF was sourced from the south, a disproportionately large amount of projects were concentrated in the north, and particularly in Buhari's home state of Katsina, with little done in the east and Niger Delta which needed help more than ever! Is Buhari a statesman? Please ask yourself and answer objectively. Here is man who called on Muslims to vote only Muslim candidates at the recent elections. As if that was not enough, when given the chance to deny the statement, he blurted that he only said Muslims should vote for those who would promote their religion! Is that not one and the same thing? Here is a man who went on to say that Nigerians don't need "ordinary rubber" to justify their citizenship (in reference to the national ID card scheme). A man who labelled as subversives his opponents who were schemed out of the Abuja ANPP Presidential primaries. A man who when the flame were burning in the north over Sharia publicly denounced the Council of States decision to down play Sharia temporarily." http://www.dawodu.com/omokri1.htm |
| Culture › Re: The True Extent Of Alaigbo (Igboland) by PhysicsRND(m): 3:43am On Feb 19, 2011 |
Obiagu1:Reading that again, I have to say that it doesn't prove that they would have been able to distinguish between Igbos and Igbo-cultured Ijaws. When I first read that I was under the impression that the "Quaws" might have been a reference to the Ijaws, considering the ferocious warlike manner they are described in other accounts of European explorers, but the "Quaws" could not be the Ijaws. Not only do the Quaws have horrible relations with Europeans ("whites fell victim to their fury at Bonny" and Igbos, they file their teeth, which the Ijaw have never been described or known as practicing.However it seems pretty clear that the "Appa" or "Appas" tribe described very negatively there are the Apoi clan of the Ijaw. So Hugh Crow successfully identified some Ijaw from Igbos and Igbos with ichi marks. Nevertheless the point still stands, even if he could distinguish between Igbos and ordinary Ijaws, how would he tell Igbos from Ijaw settlers who adopted Igbo culture, language, etc.? Like I said before there was no political or social reason for all of those people (Kalabiri, Bonny, Okrika) to have independently and consistently created or recited tales of an Ijaw origin, but they did. Also, something to consider: "The Isokos* ancient pagan beliefs are much the same as those of other Southern Nigerian tribes. This may be summed up under that all-inclusive word "ju-ju." It is admitted that there is a great God, the Creator, Oghene; but after creating the world, He lost further interest in it. Consequently the direc? tion ofthe world is given over to a host of minor spirits, demons, elementals, or whatever you wish to call them. Most of these spirits are malevolent, and take up their abode in trees, ponds, or in "bad bush." These spirits have to be propitiated by offerings of various kinds, otherwise they will do great harm in spreading disease, causing failure of crops, etc. Besides this type of spirit, there are others, who are thought to be interested in men's welfare; each man is believed to have a "creator," a spirit who is responsible for his welfare. This "creator" is usually represented by a small wooden image. Ju-ju in the strict sense of the word is the name for this wooden image; being derived from the French "joujou," meaning toy or doll, though other authorities claim its derivation to be from the French "jeu," meaning play. Ju-ju now has come to have a wider meaning than this, and is taken to include most things connected with the ancient worship. Each man will pay great respect to the image as representing his creator; seeing that, although this spirit (who may be identified with one of the man's ancestors) is on the whole well intentioned, it is of very uncertain temper, and if not treated respectfully will do some mischief to the man. I have found no traces of totemism amongst the Isokos, but I have amongst the Ijaws. In Ijaw villages there may be seen iguanas walking about; these creatures are entirely free to go where they please, and are unmolested. They are sacred animals and are thought to contain the spirits of departed ancestors. Belief in metamorphosis is stranger still. This I have found amongst the Abos, where it is vouched for and thoroughly believed in by sincere people. Certain people are thought to have power, derived from some occult source, of putting themselves into a trance, and whilst their bodies are thus sleeping, their spirits at night-time appear in the form of were-leopards and were-snakes, and in this form may take revenge on their enemies. Should the were-leopard or were-snake be wounded by gun or matchet that same wound will appear in the body of the man in trance. I have been unable to make out for certain whether it is believed that the man's spirit will use some already existing leopard or snake, or whether a new were-leopard or were-snake will be "created" just for the time the man is in trance, to vanish when he comes out of the trance." - The Isoko Country, Southern Nigeria Author(s): John W. Hubbard Source: The Geographical Journal, Vol. 77, No. 2 (Feb., 1931), pp. 110-120 http://www.jstor.org/stable/pdfplus/1784387.pdf?acceptTC=true Please note that this is referring even to the Western Ijaws, next to Isokos. Iguana reverence was there naturally as part of their beliefs. Now compare this with the information from the second/third link I posted: http://books.google.com/books?id=pIR-mgBiJ-gC&pg=PA105&lpg=PA105&dq=barbot+bonny&source=bl&ots=v0opbpyTd6&sig=mewPl4QXCrRjJsKjapC641Zmi4E&hl=en&ei=mMJeTaehGM-utwfxxoW7DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAQ#v=snippet&q=iguana&f=false How on earth could something as unique and bizarre as Iguana reverence and worship have come to be among Bonny and very prominent in Bonny society, if they were not actually descended from original Ijaw migrants who became "Igbo-like" over time, though acculturation, marriage, trade, etc.? http://books.google.com/books?id=pIR-mgBiJ-gC&pg=PA105&lpg=PA105&dq=barbot+bonny&source=bl&ots=v0opbpyTd6&sig=mewPl4QXCrRjJsKjapC641Zmi4E&hl=en&ei=mMJeTaehGM-utwfxxoW7DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Bonny%20legends&f=false ^^^ p. 29 I think these were "Igbofied" Ijaw states. |
| Politics › Re: Abacha Never Stole, Say Buhari by PhysicsRND(m): 3:35am On Feb 19, 2011 |
Why am I not surprised. People just don't get it. This man worked under Sani Abacha as head of the PTF. How could he then say that Abacha was corrupt? He's got to cover all his tracks and distance himself a bit. On a side note, while working for Sani Abacha, Buhari used 75+ % of PTF money used for roads on roads in the North. More than 75%. This is the man people want to elect. |
| Politics › Re: Video Footage Of Aguiyi-ironsi, Nzeogwu, Sardauna’s House, Katsina…. by PhysicsRND(m): 3:15am On Feb 19, 2011 |
The word Edo is not used like Eri's descendants used Igbo.How is gods of the Edo (Ebo n'Edo) not used the same way? Also, the name of the people is the same as the name of the land and in the case of Ebo n'Edo it's not referring to the land. Anyway, the Edo (mythological leaning unscientific oral historians, that is) not only believe that their land was the first land, but that they were the first people: "The Edo version is that, in the beginning, Osanobua (Oghene-Osa, Tu-SoS) decided to populate the world so He asked His four sons in Erinmwin (Heaven) to choose whatever gift of nature each fancied. The oldest chose wealth, the next in age chose wisdom, the third chose mysticism (spiritual energy) and as the youngest was about to announce his choice, Owonwon (the Toucan) cried out to him to settle for a snail shell. This did not make sense to him but he settled for it all the same. The brothers laughed at his silly choice but Osanobua said it was a wise choice. That when they get to the middle of the water where He was sending them, the youngest son should turn his snail shell facing the water. There was no land only water every where and the four sons were in a canoe, sailing, drifting, propelled by the power of eziza (wind.) In the middle of the water stood a tree on top of which lived (Owonwon) the toucan. The importance of the emergence of the tree before man on earth is not lost on modern science, which recognizes that without the tree manufacturing oxygen, life on earth would have been impossible. Modern science has also confirmed the Edo cosmology that birds, insects etc, preceded man to earth. The Edo myth of creation was earth based in scope. When the children got to the middle of the water, the youngest son turned his snail shell upside down resulting in an explosion from the bottom of the water that forced volumes and volumes of sand to gush out of the water and fill up space around them for as far as the eyes could see. With the explosion, the four elements of creation, amen (water) eziza (air) arhen (fire) and oto (sand or land) were in place. Land was every where but the kids did not know what it was. They were afraid to climb out of the canoe to step on the land, so they sent the Chameleon to test its firmness. That is why the Chameleon walks with hesitation. The youngest son of Osanobua was the only spirit out of the four sons who could have the physical human body attribute on stepping on the land, because that was the advantage of the physical or material choice he made. It was put in his hand from heaven. The other sons were deities. The youngest son, the ruler of the earth, represents innocence and so is susceptible to the powers of the deities, his brothers. These same weak and strong, good and evil, physical and spiritual, influences form the basic elements of all modern religions, with man endowed with the power to make choices. Junior wanted his older spirit brothers to remain with him on his land. The oldest brother chose to take his spirit gift and live in what was left of the water. The other two brothers accepted junior's invitation and deposited their spirit selves and gifts on the land as soon as they stepped on it from the canoe. Junior stepped on his land gingerly at first, then vigorously, stamping hard and repeatedly on it, running and rolling over it. He looked around and felt good and happy with his enormous gift. He called his land agbon (earth) and himself, Idu, meaning the first human on earth." Later (the full story is too long to bother to post): "As Osanobua was making to leave, Idu politely asked: “what if we have other problems and want to reach our creator quickly?” Osanobua said, “you can individually live for up to five hundred years, but you can come to me at will through your individual spirit self, ehi, whose double is permanently with me in heaven. All you would need to do is climb the Alubode hill and you are with ehi in heaven, who would bring you to me.” As Osanobua left to his abode where the earth, water, and the sky meet, darkness was lifted from the earth. Life was sweet and easy and before long, Idu and his wife, Eteghohi, were making babies. As the years rolled by, generations of extended Idu's family began to spread out in all directions, setting up communities, villages and towns. The different communities farthest from base spoke variations of Idu language and knew that they came from one common ancestor, Papa Idu, the ancestor of all mankind." - Naiwu Osahon For another source: http://books.google.com/books?ei=nCJfTeveHojAtgf9wOGGDA&ct=result&id=xl0uAQAAIAAJ&dq=idu+benin+osanobua&q=idu+#search_anchor Can't access the whole book, but: Page 11 ". . .the words used by Akka when he claimed the territory of Otoidu or Iduland for the descendants of Idu, the first Oduduwa, Oghene of Uhe. Akka was at the point of Idu's people's memorable departure from Uhe after the death of his father Idu." Page 28 " The word uku is an old Idu word, meaning great. It was first used in Iduland for kuku, grandson of Idu. He had branched out of the Idu Party after the descent from the Uhe Plateau heights in the 7th century AD." - Osaren S.B. Omoregie (editor), International Society for Benin Studies , Great Benin: handbook on Ubiniology So apparently before the 7th century AD, one Akka, son of Oduduwa (who was actually Idu), had coined the word Otoidu (Otoedo). Hmmm. The Edo earthworks just so happen to have started around the 7th-8th century. How convenient.  Kind of like how Eri just so happens to have lived around 900AD and Igbo-Ukwu happens to have flourished at that time. How convenient.Mythological histories are interesting, but let's not get carried away. |
| Culture › Re: The True Extent Of Alaigbo (Igboland) by PhysicsRND(m): 12:56am On Feb 19, 2011 |
Obiagu1:I said that there were different accounts and perspectives, and I separated them because of that. But calling Brass an Igbo town is a clear sign of a lack of an ability to distinguish between the two. |
| Politics › Re: Video Footage Of Aguiyi-ironsi, Nzeogwu, Sardauna’s House, Katsina…. by PhysicsRND(m): 12:50am On Feb 19, 2011 |
ezeagu:Eri named his sons with the word Igbo (I thought Igbo just meant "person" or "man" in Igbo and that Ndigbo meant "the people," in Igbo?) in them, so he was making a conscience and concerted reference to a not fully extant ethnic group? That makes little sense to me. That is the mere mention of the word, not the use of it to designate an ethnic group. An example of groups using the word for an ethnic group since time immemorial: Contrary to Egharevba, other, more mythological Benin oral historians (not unlike those Igbo oral historians who claim Eri came down from the sky) actually believed that Edo was the cradle of creation ("Edo Ore Isi Agbon" by Osanobua and called the gods of the Benin people the Ebo n'Edo. Apparently "Edo" has been around since creation. |
| Culture › Re: The True Extent Of Alaigbo (Igboland) by PhysicsRND(m): 11:50pm On Feb 18, 2011 |
Where does it say an Ijaw man married an Igbo woman in the Burton link you posted? Thanks for providing the link; I've read Wanderings in West Africa and Burton certainly knows who Ijos/Ijaws are, as distinct from Igbos. However, apart from the fact that Burton often relied on other people's research and conclusions to reach his conclusions (he was up to date on some other people's information and published accounts), there is the glaring fact that he could easily have made the exact same decision that John Purdy made and assumed that if they look, dress, talk, and live as Igbos then they are indeed Igbos. As I said before, this is an extremely logical and reasonable course of action to take, but if, upon later interviewing all of these groups and collecting their origin stories and tales during the early colonial period and/or before Ijaws have any political influence. dominance, or prominence that would make anyone try to associate with them apropos of nothing, each group gives the same story of ancient Ijaw ancestry and migration into their present area from Ijawlands, one cannot then conclude that the accounts of them being called Igbo are incontrovertible and the final pronouncement on the matter. This is especially so when distinguished ethnographers could not tell that Brass was not an Igbo town. (That shows that whatever subtle differences might have been available to distinguish Igbo and Ijaws with Igbo culture, language, etc. would easily have been overlooked) |
| Politics › Re: Video Footage Of Aguiyi-ironsi, Nzeogwu, Sardauna’s House, Katsina…. by PhysicsRND(m): 11:26pm On Feb 18, 2011 |
ezeagu:You blatantly asserted that no other ethnic group of Nigerians has been using their current name for their ethnic group as long as Igbos. That cannot possibly be proven. I didn't contest or doubt the validity of any story about Eri; that's not relevant to my point. Also, I didn't even say that "I held" that Benin acquired that name in the 12th/13th century, for the record. I said that "it's usually held." There are other theories out there, like the Beni-Nupe theory of the name (see Ryder, Thornton, etc.), so I keep an open mind and don't take the "Ile-Ibinu from Oranmiyan" story as gospel or dogma. abadaba:Quiet, you. |
| Culture › Re: The True Extent Of Alaigbo (Igboland) by PhysicsRND(m): 11:17pm On Feb 18, 2011 |
Obiagu1:Please provide the link. Is it stating the same thing that the first link I posted is: that everyone there is Igbo? I'm talking about the first two primary sources I gave links to when I say these Europeans might not have been able to distinguish between Igbos and Ijaws, not just any European sources, because I know that some other European writers did successfully distinguish between Igbos and Ijaws. My point is that the specific authors (Hugh Crow, John Purdy) of the first two links might have just seen Igbo culture, physical appearance, language, etc. and reached the reasonable, logical conclusion that follows from that - that these people are Igbos. But when later European anthropologists and historians went to ask these people who they were, they all gave the same tales of ancient Ijaw descent. As an example of why I claim that they might not have been able to tell who was really Igbo take a look at this statement at the bottom of the page of the second link I posted: "Dr. W.F. Daniell, whose ethnographical acquirements make him an authority on these subjects, says that the different tribes inhabiting that maritime expanse of country comprehended between between the Rio Formosa, in the Bight of Benin, and the Old Calabar River, have unquestionably derived their origin from one common stock. . .The great parental source from which most of them have emanated are the Ebo's of Quorra, which, for the sake of perspicuity, it will be necessary to separate into three distinct classes. 1st. The Ebo's Proper, which include the natives of the Rio Formosa, Warree Island, Rio Escravos, Brass Town, and the Quorra generally. 2nd. The Ebo's of the table land between the Quorra and Cross River, comprising the natives of New Calabar, the Bonny, and a portion of the inhabitants of the River Andony. 3rd. The Ebo's of the country between Andony and Old Callebar Rivers, which embrace the habitants near the coast, the natives of the several towns of Old Calabar, and of the entrance of Cross River." - John Purdy, The new sailing directory for the Ethiopic or southern Atlantic ocean, 1855 http://books.google.com/books?id=0WYDAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA419&lpg=PA419&dq=the+king+an+heebo+bonny&source=bl&ots=bGoOUcvIkW&sig=9crwjKPXvDsUp0AsXEjwUaj-hak&hl=en&ei=eMFeTbjkGYKjtgfrjYnQCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=the%20king%20an%20heebo%20bonny&f=false If a so called "ethnographical" authority could not even tell that Brass (the name for the capital of the Nembe city-state, Nembe, and later used to refer to the city now known as Twon-Brass), in modern Bayelsa, is an Ijaw town and distinguish that they were Ijaws, rather than "Ebos Proper" (whatever that's supposed to mean) then how reliable are these accounts? For him to go on to say who is and isn't "Heebo" in Bonny and New Calabar (Kalabari) when he claims Warri and Brass people are "Ebo's Proper", shows that telling Ijaws and Igbos apart was clearly a difficult task that was beyond their "ethnographical" capability. When you add the factor that there was heavy mixing between the groups, it becomes clear that this John Purdy, even with the help of a supposed anthropological authority, could not be relied upon to distinguish what was Ijaw from what was Igbo in Bonny, Calabar, or Okrika. The same could easily apply to other European writers. I think the most reasonable conclusion to reach is that the European writers took the approach that if they look, talk, dress, live very much like Igbos then they must be Igbos because the vast majority of people in the area are Igbo, when it could just have been the case of physical and cultural similarity. It's not really clear, in my opinion. people who think Brass Town and Warri are Igbo cannot really be relied upon. |
| Politics › Re: Great/famous People From Your State! by PhysicsRND(m): 10:58pm On Feb 18, 2011 |
Guys, Ojukwu wasn't/isn't a coward. Don't derail this into another civil war thread. |
| Politics › Re: Video Footage Of Aguiyi-ironsi, Nzeogwu, Sardauna’s House, Katsina…. by PhysicsRND(m): 10:54pm On Feb 18, 2011 |
ezeagu:My point about the Jukun culture head was that giving me a link to Igbo-Ukwu archaeological sites and artifacts doesn't save your claim from being unsupportable nonsense. You could just admit that saying Igbo have the oldest continuous use of the word for their ethnic designation in all of Nigeria was unsupportable. As for Benin, I said "is held." Not "did." That shouldn't be hard to understand. The source is Egharevba and numerous other oral historians. Considering that it's coming from him (J. Egharevba), I could dismiss it. But in this case I think it's plausible. |
| Politics › Re: Video Footage Of Aguiyi-ironsi, Nzeogwu, Sardauna’s House, Katsina…. by PhysicsRND(m): 10:44pm On Feb 18, 2011 |
Katsumoto:Oh. I get it. My confusion was because the people called themselves Edo, not Benin, although the kingdom was known as Ibinu/Bini/Beny/Benin. So within the context of this discussion about what people have been calling themselves for hundreds of years, the 12th century date threw me because it seems kind of obvious that they wouldn't arbitrarily just start calling themselves Edo in the 12th century. But you're correct that Igodomigodo is held to have become known by a different name (Bini/Benin) around that time. |
