Negro_Ntns: In Nigeria, Yoruba is the only original and indigenous nation.  We established our own states and managed our territoriaL expansions and consolidations through warfare and treaties.

Negro_Ntns:

Chinua Achebe was the first person in history to ever refer to the many separate but independent Igbo clans as a "nation".  He did that out of realization of the points I am making . . . to the effect that, Igbo was not a nation, kingdom or empire in the traditional and historical sense of African rulership and tribal dominions.  Yoruba was and is still a nation.  Hausa was not until Fulani - Dan Fodio - established them as a nation.

Negro_Ntns:

So when you talk of "states" in the sense you are deriving it, then there had to have been a nation ruled by a paramount and to whom all the head rulers of the tributary territories pay homage and loyalty.  Such a arrangement was never and is not in the Igbo history.

Negro_Ntns:

In Nigeria, Yoruba is the only original and indigenous nation.  We established our own states and managed our territoriaL expansions and consolidations through warfare and treaties.  This is why the British were incapable of setting up a new democracy for us and resolved to using other manuevers to strip us of power in a "new society" called Nigeria.  They left qualified Yorubas out of military posts and authority.  Anywhere a Yoruba officer is in charge he was deputized and enveloped with plenty other tribes to insulate him from fellow Yoruba officers and prevent against a face-off with the British.  The case was not the same when the officer was Igbo or Hausa.

Negro_Ntns:

So it is wrong to assume that military and political legacy left to reward you thus equate to historical greatness.  You need to change your mindset about warring in Nigeria.  You have never fought a war of tribal control outside of the false sense of security made favorable to you by the British legacy.

Negro_Ntns:

Your talk about Aro and Nri setup and relationship and all the other references to nation, states, democracy are nothing but an attempt to re-define who you are as a people by mimicking greatness of others who have proven through history and traditions, customs and rituals how to be Great!

Negro_Ntns:

So all you Igbos need to shut up and stop boasting and beating your chests about greatness and power and strength and war.  You are rip-off majority. . . . the Ijaws or Kalabaris  would have been an appropriate majority in the share of federal power in this country.

Negro_Ntns:

The advantage you enjoy is that many of Yorubas and Hausas and other small tribs are not intimate with tis history and so whatever you say they just absorb it without a challenge.  You continue to repeat the nonsense and with time it starts to gather strength and root itself as fact. . . but in actuality its BS.

Stop your nonsense or I will continue to reveal your secondary status in the dimensions of African Great kingdoms.  Ok?

alj harem:

^^^^^

he is right the majority statue of igbos is questionable

alj harem:

^^^^^

he is right the majority statue of igbos is questionable

ezeagu:

Let it be questionable now.   I'm just laughing at you people.

jason123:

Wgat do you mean They are a majority group with over 30 million in Nigeria alone. That should never be questioned!

ezeagu:

Igbo is the oldest surviving name for an ethnic group, a nation in Nigeria, used for over 1100 years officially.

PhysicsRND:

What sources mention Igbos in 910 AD?

jason123:

Wgat do you mean They are a majority group with over 30 million in Nigeria alone. That should never be questioned!

ezeagu:

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/igbo/hd_igbo.htm

PhysicsRND:

I meant a written source. There was no mention of the site now called Igbo-Ukwu being called Igbo-Ukwu in 910 AD so the way you phrased your statement was simply incorrect.

ezeagu:

"The period of diffusion also saw Menri (Nri) move to their present location Agu-ukwu Nri; Umumba (Oraeri) moved to their present abode near Igbo-ukwu who, together with Igboeze, Amaigbo, Igbo Ora, Igbo Ode are among the grand sons of Eri."

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=dIsuAQAAIAAJ

Eri - 800-900 AD

http://books.google.co.uk/books?ei=p9JeTf3fOdKGhQfh3NyaDQ

PhysicsRND:


You don't seem to get what I was saying:

What sources mention Igbos in 910 AD?

Comprende, amigo?

PhysicsRND:

What sources mention Igbos in 910 AD?

ezeagu:

How is it possible that there would be a source mentioning Igbo in 910?

Katsumoto:

Why 910 AD? Want to see if we are on the same page.

PhysicsRND:


That's precisely my point.


You made some claim about Igbo being the oldest surviving name for an ethnic group, but can you even produce a 1450 AD that mentions the word Igbo?

ezeagu:

So how does not having a European source change the fact that 'Igbo' existed in 910 through Eri?

PhysicsRND:

I didn't say Igbo did not exist in 910.

You're the one who said Igbo is the oldest existing name for an ethnic group in Nigeria. A claim that can't be proven.

ezeagu:

Can't be proven because there's no European source at that time? Are you sure you want to stick to this statement?

ezeagu:

Can't be proven because there's no European source at that time? Are you sure you want to stick to this statement?

Katsumoto:

But you can't prove that Igbo is the oldest ethnic name in Nigeria; that is the point PhysicsABC is making. The first variant of Bini arrived in the 12/13th century.

PhysicsRND:

No.

You're not getting it are you?

1. You claimed that the word Igbo as a word identifying the ethnic group had existed longer than the word identifying any other ethnic group in Nigeria, a claim which can not be proven and actually sounds quite bizarre.

Katsumoto:

But you can't prove that Igbo is the oldest ethnic name in Nigeria; that is the point PhysicsABC is making. The first variant of Bini arrived in the 12/13th century.

ezeagu:

It only sound's 'bizarre' if you want it to be. There are many things from Africa that can't be proven from this logic.

Do you have sauce from that time?

PhysicsRND:

lol@ ABC.

Yeah, they haven't unbanned me for "spam" posting with the other names when I was trying to post maps ( a la becomrich) of Sudan in that Ghana-Sudan thread.

What does the part in bold mean? Do you mean the word Bini, or the people?

ezeagu:

It only sound's 'bizarre' if you want it to be. There are many things from Africa that can't be proven from this logic.

Katsumoto:

I mean Bini from Ile-Ibinu as given to Ighodomigodo by Oranmiyan. At least the people in Bini are called Bini pepo.

PhysicsRND:


How are you not getting this? You claimed that Igbo people were calling themselves Igbo in 910 AD and continued to do so up till the present day but that other groups did not.


Now look at this:



2204 - Jukun male head with a large skull

H. 23 cm
550 A. D. +/- 100 years
Private collection


Lets say it's 550 AD - 100 years.

That's 450 AD and it's associated with the "Jukun culture of terracottas" because it was found in the Jukun area. The same way Igbo-Ukwu is associated with Igbos because it was found in the heart of Igboland.

What if it turns out that the Jukun have been calling themselves Jukun from 450 AD, up to the present day? There's no proof of that, but if a Jukun comes here and asserts that this is the case, then he's totally rubbished your claim and disproved it by your bizarre reasoning.

Don't just make weird unsupportable claims. That's my point. This is the second one you've made on this thread (the other one was about only two groups in the whole of West Africa putting up a worthy resistance to the British).

PhysicsRND:

Oh. I get it. My confusion was because the people called themselves Edo, not Benin, although the kingdom was known as Ibinu/Bini/Beny/Benin. So within the context of this discussion about what people have been calling themselves for hundreds of years, the 12th century date threw me because it seems kind of obvious that they wouldn't arbitrarily just start calling themselves Edo in the 12th century. But you're correct that Igodomigodo is held to have become known by a different name (Bini/Benin) around that time.

ezeagu:

Then find Jukun ancestors that used Jukun then and they will have the oldest name. Don't ask me about sauce when most of the things even you believe and repeat on here do not have any.

Sauce please.

PhysicsRND:

My point about the Jukun culture head was that giving me a link to Igbo-Ukwu archaeological sites and artifacts doesn't save your claim from being unsupportable nonsense. You could just admit that saying Igbo have the oldest continuous use of the word for their ethnic designation in all of Nigeria was unsupportable trash.

PhysicsRND:

As for Benin, I said "is held." Not "did." That shouldn't be hard to understand.

PhysicsRND:

The source is Egharevba and numerous other oral historians. Considering that it's coming from him (J. Egharevba), I could dismiss it. But in this case I think it's plausible.

ezeagu:

I actually gave a source with the names of Eri's grandson's some of who founded Igbo towns that exist today.

Oh, but it's not "unsupportable trash" because to you it "is held". Okay, it "is held" that Igbo is the oldest word for an ethnic group existing in Nigeria shown by the names of the sons of Eri.

Egharevba is an author from the 12th century? Everything you say from now on without a 'source' from that time is "unsupportable trash", okay?