₦airaland Forum

SEFAGO:
What about minorities?

Seems the only one that cares about minorities on nairaland

I would wager that most of who the igbo and yoruba people claim by force are Edo and deltans

lol, I'll post a pretty good Edo state list in a while that should surprise some people who think my state only produces ashawos to export to Italy. Thanks for your concern but I got this.

As for Delta state they do have some people, like Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala, her writer son who wrote that acclaimed novel. Also, Oviemo Ovadje and Andrew Evwaraye (http://www.udayton.edu/artssciences/profiles/evwaraye_andrew.php)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babatunde_Osotimehin


Another Ogunnite (is that the right word?).

Ogun and Anambra are definitely up there. I can't really say which one really has the lead there.

ROSSIKE:
Why exactly would M15 bump him off? He's just one person. Just one squealer.

That's precisely why they could just take him out, Mossad style, if they felt it was serious. Or at least blackmail him into the ground. He's a nobody. Who's going to care? Who's going to find out? Who's going to do anything?

karl max:
@rossike [b]don't expect to be educated by PhysicsRND: he can't am sure he is from the north.[/b]that's how they called wole soyinka names on the post "THE CRIMES OF BUHARI.and called a great authur frederick foresight.great people who wrote the truth in exposing their secret with the british.in the whole entire north who has a noble prize for writing none only in looting and scheming to be president by force.

?

What did I say about Soyinka? You mean this: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-605402.0.html#msg7736632



Don't let Me_Aboki see this claim in bold. He might bark at ya.

And please drop the irritating line on 'what the British govt thinks of him'. Quite apart from its irrelevance, you cannot claim to know what the British govt thinks of him, no matter how much they ''chuckle''.

True, but if he had had any really compromising info MI5 or some other British agency would have acted on it and dealt with him, since, according to Harold Smith himself, the British government was not above threatening and blackmailing people as they supposedly did to him and Michael Crowder. (I'm not saying the British government is above threatening, blackmailing, or worse. I'm just pointing out that by this man's own claims and reasoning, he shouldn't even have been allowed to write so many articles and talk so much).



I'll describe what's wrong with that statement in my next post.

"Murtala Muhammad initiated a comprehensive review of the Third National Development Plan. Singling out inflation as the greatest danger to the economy, he was determined to reduce the money supply that had been swollen by government expenditures on public works. Muhammad also announced that his government would encourage the rapid expansion of the private sector into areas dominated by public corporations. He reappraised foreign policy, stressing a "Nigeria first" orientation in line with OPEC price guidelines that was to the disadvantage of other African countries. Nigeria became "neutral" rather than "nonaligned" in international affairs. The shift in orientation became apparent with respect to Angola. Nigeria had worked with the OAU to bring about a negotiated reconciliation of the warring factions in the former Portuguese colony, but late in 1975 Murtala Muhammad announced Nigeria's support for the Soviet-backed Popular Movement for the Liberation of Angola, citing South Africa's armed intervention on the side of the rival National Union for the Total Independence of Angola (União Nacional para a Independência Total de Angola). The realignment strained relations with the United States, which argued for the withdrawal of Cuban troops and Soviet advisers from Angola. In October the Nigerian Air Force took delivery of Soviet-built aircraft that had been ordered under Gowon."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murtala_Mohammed



Hmmm, doing it in secrecy might have been better, since it was already diplomatically costly to even declare support for a communist supported movement, let alone send troops. Anyway, the civil war was between Angolans, not the supporters of the different sides, so openly sending soldiers would actually have been looked upon unfavorably as being excessive and out of line.

Nah

"The 50% Northern fix was only stage one of the master plan. Stage two was to keep the Southerners out of the North and to collect the maximum legitimate vote for the NPC. What that vote was we shall never know, because the win was essential and the numbers were juggled when and where necessary. Stage three was to destabilise Zik and place him under the control of Okotie Eboh. This was the stage at which I came in. It was my job to guarantee the safety of Okotie Eboh's Warri seat. My colleague Charles Bunker's job was to funnel large sums of money from British multinationals like Shell and BP to Okotie Eboh, who used the money to keep the bankrupt NCNC on the road. (He also funnelled vast sums to a Swiss Bank through middle men in the City of London). Okotie Eboh was the vital link man between the NCNC and the NPC. Stage four in 1962 was to destroy Awolowo, and the final stage was intended to remove Zik from the largely ceremonial post of President and scatter the NCNC to the wind." - Harold Smith, Excerpts from Harold Smith's unpublished memoirs, 12 March 1992

http://www./harold_smith/harold_smith_frm.htm

^^^^^

Bizarre statements like this are why Harold Smith is not taken seriously by people who know a little bit about that era.


Harold Smith is basically just a fringe guy and can't be relied upon to state the unequivocal truth or to even accurately know or understand the events he describes in his writings.

So when he says other things, whether they might have an element of truth in them, the British government just sits back and chuckles because they know he's made himself look like a loon.

http://www.onlinenigeria.com/notable_nig.asp


^^^^^

Akingbola fell from some great heights.

Ikengawo:
Nairaland is just a bunch of unemployed outcasts in canada arguing about nigeria.

rofl


becomrich, that was for you.

Segun Musiwa, come spam this thread with maps and prove them wrong.

Agostinho Neto
by Chinua Achebe


Agostinho, were you no more
Than the middle one favored by fortune
In children's riddle; Kwame
Striding ahead to accost
Demons; behind you a laggard third
As yet unnamed, of twisted fingers?

No! Your secure strides
Were hard earned. Your feet
Learned their fierce balance
In violent slopes of humiliation;
Your delicate hands, patiently
Groomed for finest incisions,
Were commandeered brusquely to kill,
Your gentle voice to battle-cry.

Perhaps your family and friends
Knew a merry flash cracking the gloom
We see in pictures but I prefer
And will keep that sorrowful legend.
For I have seen how
Half a millennium of alien violation
And murder can stamp a smile
On the vacant face of the fool,
The sinister grin of Africa's idio t-kings
Who oversee in obscene palaces of gold
The butchery of their own people.

Neto, I sing your passing, I,
Timid requisitioner of your vast
Armory's most congenial supply.
What shall I sing? A dirge answering
The gloom? No, I will sing tearful songs
Of joy; I will celebrate
The man who rode a trinity
Of awesome fates to the cause
Of our trampled race!
Thou Healer, Soldier and Poet!

Very, very interesting. Why the thumbs down?


Such a tragic, unnecessary war.

Nevertheless, as far as writing goes, it's all there: larger than life figures, fiery speeches, cold war politics, African commandos, Apartheid supported rebels, randy Nigerian soldiers, a beautiful Angolan woman suspected of being a double agent, a Cuban revolutionary soldier smoking a cohiba while staring off into the sunset.

This is the kind of material one could write a novel with.

I think I'll get an outline of the basic plot going.

Andre Uweh:
Then, start with your own state.

lol, I can't think of too many, but the ones I can think of are deservedly infamous.

Lawrence Anini

Tony Anenih

Lucky Igbinedion

Bob Izua

Hmmm. I'd like to hear this traditional Western Ugandan rap.

How about infamous people?   That would be a more interesting list.

Also, are Nollywood actors really "great"?   Be honest.

[quote author=Jenifa_ link=topic=603323.msg7745566#msg7745566 date=1297911963]why are you pissed that I assumed you were yoruba? I made the assumption based on your relation with the poster below me.
besides you also have made false assumptions about my origin.


I don't know what you are on about. I never repeated it as a fact. I even mentioned many times that I was speaking from a british perspective and explaining why they chose the north over the south. It was their opinion. not mine. So you are free to contend with the british on that one. not me.

yes all cultures have complex systems of organization. that is a very subjective topic. but I'm talking about an efficient system that is more suited to "civilized" British taste. It wasn't just the culture that they admired. I repeated many times that i was speaking on what the British thought. The british rationale for choosing the north.

In fact, you are the one who needs to go and read for making such an ignorant statement as this one below. you obviously have base assumptions about northerners.[/quote]I'm not angry about the Yoruba assumption. What was annoying was that you went on assuming that my motivations were tribalist without a single shred of evidence,  Well let me just tell you what my motivations were since you didn't get it. When, upon comparing indigenous African organizational systems and "Mohammedan" organizational systems somebody asserts that:

[quote author=Jenifa_]lthough colonial govt did use the north as the seat of power because of their relatively organized structure (compared to yorubas and certainly compared to igbos lol)[/quote]there is no indication that they are only speaking about what the British thought. It seemed hat was your actual view and I asked a question about why you held those views, but if you were only speaking for the British colonials, then that's another thing and it really was my mistake. My motivation was to engage in a factual discussion of this claim and if you could convince me that this original statement was actually reasonable I would have conceded, but it seemed like an assertion to me.


And the ignorant statement below about Northerners was not made by me so I hope you meant to address somebody else.


Anyway, have a nice day. Let's not take this too seriously.

Smart indeed. His parents named him well. The past heads of state did not perform well enough to merit any large pension and there are far better uses for that money considering the state of Nigeria.

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=604661.msg7745384#msg7745384 date=1297907292]UN ranked Ibadan around 1.4 million as of 1985. I'd be surprised if it didn't grow at all in 25 years. . .

I imagine that Lagos has sucked away a lot of manpower out of the SW, but natural population growth and those who choose to move to Ibadan rather than Lagos would also contribute to growth.

But I sort of understand the sentiment behind your statement. All these great empires of the past (Benin, Sokoto Emirate, Kanem-Borno Empire), somehow they seem to have been outbred by Yoruba and especially Igbo.[/quote]Well, that wasn't it, actually. I had never seen the 3 million statistic for Ibadan. I had always seen it listed as having a larger population than Benin, but not by that much. I guess its entirely plausible; it's just a bit of a shock to see 1.3 million one day and then see 3 million the next day. As for Benin, it's not clear that Benin was "outbred," nor the Kanuris. They were just relatively smaller groups to begin with so they had a smaller base to multiply with even if multiplying at the same rate as other larger groups, resulting in the other groups having many times more people than them.

[quote author=Me_Aboki link=topic=603323.msg7743693#msg7743693 date=1297887937]^^^^^
Right again!

Lady, I do admire your patience and tenacity, unfortunately you are dealing with guys in real denial. Sadly, they will never see your point because their bigoted minds are like concrete - ALL MIXED UP AND PERMANENTLY SET. Its useless, they will never accept the facts before them but will be trying to rewrite history.

Yep, sure you are entitled to your opinion.[/quote]If you're going to sit on the sidelines like a spectator, please refrain from barking at the debaters like a dog with no training. You certainly wouldn't do that in real life at a public debate.

Thank you and have a nice day.

[quote author=Jenifa_ link=topic=603323.msg7739067#msg7739067 date=1297843979]1. ok then no personal attacks. But anyways, I think it's because my comments weren't clouted by tribalistic sentiments as yours are.

2. Like I said earlier, hausa states were more organized from the british point of view. They choose the north as the seat of government because of their relatively organized structure compared to ours and the igbos'. I actually thought this was common knowledge. This was why we had indirect rule. The idea started with Luggard in Northern Nigeria like Aboki already mentioned.

3. All you did here was support my claim that the north has always been poor financially due to lack of natural resources even though politically, they were strong - especially during and after colonial rule.

4. Through Unknown Nigeria by John Raphael. The entire chapter 3.


lol of course. It all started in northern nigeria and was extended to the south and other parts of british west africa (even ghana had a native authority). see #2.[/quote]1. Tribalistic sentiments? Are you under the impression that I'm Yoruba? You don't really understand what my issue was with your assertion and you've been accusing me this whole time without even bothering to actually address anything I stated or think about why I took issue with your statement. Instead you just resorted to conjecturing about my motivation for asking how you reached your conclusions about relative organization.

2. Ours? I'm not Yoruba.    Firstly, Calabar, and then Lagos were the original seats of government for the British. However, by 1906  Frederick Lugard had pacified most of Northern Nigeria and after the amalgamation the decision for Lokoja to be the seat of government can be tied to Lugard, who was put in charge of Nigeria. I never disputed that Lugard and other British colonialists had a more positive view of "Mohammedan" (their words) culture than that of the non-Muslims in the South. My contention was with your repetition of the so-called organizational superiority of the North over the southern communities as though it were actually a fact. I can't see how anybody could familiarize themselves with the actual details of the organizational systems of many (but not all) southern groups and reach the conclusion that the British were actually correct; that's why I told you to go read and then get back to me.

3. Did I ever dispute the claim that they were always poor? That was not the issue for me but you kept repeating it as though it had some particular relevance to what I originally asked you. I was only going into detail about why the colonialists spent less money initially on the North and how that necessitated merging it with the South.

4. Thanks. That book is sufficiently old and obscure that I can't access it or read chapter 3, but I'll take your word for it.

asha 80:
http://www.mongabay.com/igapo/Nigeria.htm

Is the population of Ibadan three times that of Benin City? 

I think whoever made that data messed up, unless they know something that I don't.

Fig. 2:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/Sudan_sat.jpg/511px-Sudan_sat.jpg

The evidence:

Fig. 1:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/Sudan_2010_population_density2.png/500px-Sudan_2010_population_density2.png

kabna:
Before I comment on this, I will reveal my identity: AM A PROUD GHANAIAN. ( NOW LET YOUR PREJUDICE BECLOUD YOUR THINKING)

Technically and strictly speaking the term sub means under or beneath. So sub saharan in its strictest sense denotes countries lying beneath the saharan desert. since sudan and mali lies within the sahara, they should not be subsaharan countries. my simple reasoning for this is from information it seems much of sudanese population are within the sahara whiles much of malians are immediately without so in terms of the demographics it seems fairly reasonable to put mali in sub sharan africa while sudan is out hence ghana's status as the first black african country south of the shara to gain independence. the accurate refernce to ghana's status is as i have stated first black country south of the shara.

[quote author=PhysicsQED,PhysicsMHD,PhysicsHD, etc.]lol, Prejudice? Not at all. Lighten up.

I have a lot of admiration for Ghanians. The Ashanti empire, Akan symbols, art, architecture, J.E. Casely Hayford, James Aggrey, Jerry Rawlings, etc. But you guys are so cheeky sometimes with your claims. One Ghanaian poster on this board made some claim a while back about some obscure Ghanaian physicist being the only African with any scientific term or idea named after him. I nearly fell out of my chair in shock that he had the gall to make such a statement, but then I remembered that the poster was a Ghanaian poster.


But please come with facts next time and not cheeky Ghanian assertions. It's indeed true that most of the Malian population is in the south and near the capital.

However, Just because the capital of Sudan (Khartoum), which has about 5-7 million or so people is in the Northeast, that does not mean that the population of Sudanese is in the actual Sahara desert and not beneath it. It is actually the case that the overwhelming majority of Sudanese are beneath the Sahara, as in Mali.[/quote]

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=604661.msg7744694#msg7744694 date=1297895870]Well is sort of can. There is no reason to believe that the rural North has 5 or 10X the population density of the rural South. We'd then need to understand why the rural parts of the North are amongst the most densely populated "rural" regions of the world. . . such as Northern Kano State being as densely populated as Rhode Island, and not too far off from New Jersey. . .[/quote]The rural parts of the North are not among the most densely populated regions in the world, to the best of my knowledge. It's just that there's so much land in the north that if there really were 500,000 people in multiple rural LGs in a northern state outside of the big city or cities, as claimed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kano_State, among other places, it would be difficult to find out because the LG of that Northern state could be the size of half or a third of Lagos state for some Northern states. For Kano, though, those figures are almost certainly false.

Also, I suspect that a greater percentage of Northerners than Southerners are likely to be living a rural lifestyle, in a rural area, or in a village and not a city, so that lends a small amount of credibility to their assertion. Nevertheless I don't believe the Northern population figures are true.

I do believe that the North has a large population, just not as large as they claim and that the numbers are inflated for political purposes.

fstranger3:
Cos it rhymes.    .   . you seem like one of those crazy people doing it.


Who else spends ridiculous amount of time studying Biafra and Nigerian history!

lmao, I don't spend a crazy amount of time on history, trust me. The thing is that I mostly don't watch TV except occasionally sports and news. So I spend a lot of my time thinking and  reading. Some of that reading is history. I got sucked into African history because of Benin, not out of a passionate interest in early Nigeria or its civil war. Then I kind of wanted to know what went wrong with Nigeria so I read up on the past heads of state online, and that lead me to some general  and specific history books which are at my university's library, and that led me to reading up on the war, which was sufficiently complex for me to want to find out what happened in detail.

fstranger3:
Nah. . . you have to be crazy to do that!

8 ys minimum post college, 9 yrs on average post college. Too long! For what? Psychaitry? Hell No!

lol, Ok. Then why were you mentioning it to me (attaching it to my username and everything)?

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=604661.msg7744530#msg7744530 date=1297894548]1) Well, it would seem a very bold assertion on the part of the northerners if they are claming their rural areas are more densely populated than southern ones. However, I'm even willing to spot them this advantage, even by a factor of two (giving them twice the rural density of the south.)

I'm not willing to give them a factor of 5, 10, or 20 though, as this Kano data seems to indicate.
2) OK.
3) Yeah, a bit tough.
[list]
[*] Nigerian FG says that Kano Metro pop as of 2006 was roughly 2.8 mil. UN figures from 2010 aren't too far off from that, if I'm reading the data correctly. [*] Otoh, official Lagos State #s are 8 mil, UN #s are like 10 mil+. Quite a substantial difference.
[*] Ibadan, official # is 1.4 millionish, the UN # is 2.8 mil. Hell, UN seems to believe that Ibadan reached 1.4 million back in 1985. . .
[/list]

I'm not sure how to handle this issue.[/quote]1. I've seen them make that assertion multiple times on this board, and have wouldn't be surprised if that's how they would react in real life to the question of the population data.
3. I really don't have a clue about the big cities. And to make matters worse, some cities are spread out over a larger area than others, resulting in dense but geographically smaller cities having the illusion of being more populated than spread out cities that they may not actually be larger than.

fstranger3:
Same as MDPHD

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_Scientist_Training_Program

Ah I see, wasn't aware of that. Interesting. I take it you're in that program?