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Christianity Etc › Re: Mattew Vs Luke: A Contradictory Gospel (part2) by plainbibletruth: 8:11pm On Apr 18, 2015

Rilwayne001:
What is it that you don't get?

If we take the purpose of a genealogy to be that of showing definite succession especially of the most significant ancestry then the alleged discrepancies between and in the genealogical lists of Matthew and Luke can be seen to be an apparent but not a real one.

A number of ways to resolve dissimilarities have been advanced my many over the years. But skeptics like Rilwayne001 will refuse to accept them. Perhaps they lack the capacity so to do.

Whatever stand taken on the listings of the two gospel authors the fact remains that “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
The person the genealogy points to is the Messiah, the Saviour of the world that Rilwayne & co need to believe in him in order to have eternal relationship with God.

If Rilwayne001 take this much time to OBJECTIVELY scrutinize his Quran I wonder, I just wonder what results he would come up with.

I challenge him to do so.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by plainbibletruth: 6:00pm On Apr 05, 2015

Empiree:
It's funny how christian clerics, Bishops, popes and other hide this from their people. I first learned this from "ACADIP" in 2013 and decided to research on it. Ever wonder they never mentioned Barabar's first name (Jesus). I believe Barabar is the same Barnabas of a Gospel.

Question christians need to answer is whch Jesus is their saviour from the list?.

The article writtern by the christian makes it easy for me. I was preparing to put together a thread on it. I guess this is sufficient. So definitely there are more than one Jesus in the Bible.

There may have been a thousand people who went by the name ‘JESUS’ (i.e. its Hebrew or Greek equivalent) in the Bible. Even today some bear the name ‘Jesus’ in some parts of the world.

So I don’t think that is really the issue – in his humanity Christ had to bear a name.

The historical ‘Jesus’ that Christians believe in as the saviour is the ONE PERSON:
1. Whose birth was unique and supernatural. He was uniquely born.
2. Who performed supernatural miracles and therefore had a unique and supernatural life.
3. Who died on a Roman cross. [So if 2 people on the cross had the same name ‘Jesus’ it was the one of them who fitted into (1) & (2) above that Christians believe in]. This his death on the cross was for the forgiveness of our sins.
4. Who rose from the grave, conquered death and ascended into heaven. So, the end of his life was unique and supernatural. So there is NO GRAVE where you can worship his dead bones today.

There was a single person that fit into ALL of the above, not just one of them or few of them. That is the ‘Jesus’ Christians believe on as their saviour.

Even the Quran ATTESTS to all these even though many Muslims refuse to BELIEVE in what their Quran point them to.

It is the ONLY person who ever lived and had ALL those uniqueness that Christians believe in – Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Did Jesus Die for Our Sin? Which Sin? Ifeann Should Please Come In by plainbibletruth: 11:49pm On Apr 03, 2015

[[size=5pt]quote author=Rilwayne001[/size] post=32305723][i]

1. Why can God be unjust when he had sent many prophets to preach repentance? How can countless men inherit a sin they have never committed? And if sin means the breaking of God’s law (according to dictionary), which of the children of Adam had ever known anything called forbidden tree?.

2. If God’s anger was kindled against Adam and Eve for their disobedience, could the anger persisted on to the generation of Adam and Eve. Remember this God’s action
psalm 30v5: for his anger endureth but a moment and his favour is for a life time.

3. From whence, then, could arise the solitary and strange conceit that the Almighty, who had millions of worlds equally dependent on his protection, should quit the care of all the rest, and come to die in our world, because, they say, one man and one woman had eaten an apple?

4. "Christian guy rapes innocent Muslim girl to death. Muslim girl goes to hell because she didn't believe Jesus is the son of God. Christian guy ask for forgiveness. Makes heaven." whats your take on this incident?

5. Simply put, it is either men have not inherited any sins or that bible has told lie when it says as seen above that John, Daniel, Zechariah and his wife, Samuel, Joseph were all righteous men! Or are a sinners called righteous one in the bible?

To be continued...

[/size][/quote][/size]

It is obvious that man commits personal acts of sin.

What makes him sin is the inherent nature in him that has a propensity to sin.
This nature came about as a result of the sin of Adam & Eve. A CHANGE occurred in man’s makeup when they chose to go against God’s directive. This CHANGE was now subsequently passed on to their successive offspring.
Consequently the new born baby as well as the oldest person alive possesses this sin nature.

It is for primarily this sin nature and then personal sins committed that Jesus Christ died.

As a result of his death, anyone who accepts Jesus’ work on mankind’s behalf through the expression of faith (trust) in him is saved from the penalty of sin – “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believe in him should not perish but have eternal life” John 3:16

Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by plainbibletruth: 6:38pm On Mar 26, 2015

Empiree:

If you clearly, honestly and logically consider the claims I made about Jesus’ uniqueness from the Quran you will not accuse me of any misrepresentation.

However, if you refuse to be rational then I guess there is nothing anyone can do about that.

We have not even gone into areas in the Quran where Jesus is said to have a more unique place in this world and the other world which you quoted yourself,

"(And Mentioned) when Angels said; "Oh Mary, Allah give you good news of a word from Him. whose name will be messaiah, Jesus, the son of Mary HELD HONOR IN THIS WORLD AND LIFEAFTER and among those who are brought near (to Allah)"

and you are already stuck!

You claim the Quran prohibits making distinction between God’s prophets. But in theory and/or practice is this really so?
You yourself stated that there are classes – ’25 most powerful’, ‘special five’ Arch-prophets that are ‘extremely powerful’ and you claim there is no ‘class’. Come on, Empiree!
Let me ask you this: will Muslims kill anyone for making a cartoon of Jesus like they do for that of Mohammed?
I need your honest and sincere answer.

Did Jesus himself say he had virgin pregnancy and birth and the other attributes or they were recorded in the Quran and you simply accepted it as such?
Why now put the onus on me to show you where Jesus said this or said that?
Must Jesus say it himself before you believe the facts recorded in your Quran?
What I have stated is found in the Quran.

You can't just talk. You have to bring up evidence.

Now here is my logical question which i asked you before. Show me evidence that Jesus said he is more than a prophet, servant and messanger of God?. Simple, isn't?. Your "wayo" that Jesus has combined attributes make him God is your personal theory.Answer that question @boldblue.

I already brought up the evidence – the record shows that no other prophet in the Quran had these 3 unique attributes, put together in one person, which Jesus had.
Do you dispute that?
Or is it a question of struggling with giving a sensible response to that conclusion?

Let’s put it this way: from the Quran it can be seen that Jesus is a prophet who had those distinctively unique attributes that NO OTHER PROPHET OF ISLAM has.
Am I right or wrong?

Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by plainbibletruth: 11:31pm On Mar 25, 2015

Empiree:
Your argument is straw one. And this is surely becoming annular argument. I said earlier that you tried to do me "wayo" which means fraud. And i used the same method against you that you should show me in the bible "WHERE JESUS SAID BECAUSE HE WAS GIVEN THESE THREE (3) UNPARRALLED AND UNIUE ATTRIBUTES, HE IS SAVIOR AND LORD OF ALL?". You are unable to provide such evidence.

And when you talked about his miracles, I showed verses from Quran and Bible that Jesus did not perform those miracles. It was God Almighty who performed miracles through him. Jesus himself said in your Bible

"I can on my own DO NOTHING"

Yet, you still adamant. We as muslims have no problem with those attributes Quran attributed to Jesus(peace be upon him). And it is the same Quran that tells us those attributes dont make him Lord and savior of the world. As a matter of fact, he was sent ONLY to Israelites. Very simple.

My goal is simple – to open your eyes to see that from your Quran if the facts of the virgin pregnancy and birth, the miracles and the ascension of Jesus Christ in one person are clearly, honestly and logically considered you will come to no other conclusion than that he is unique.

Thankfully you have not disproved that.
What you are yet to do is to give the reasonable response to that conclusion.

If you Muslims have no problem with these attributes, like you said, how come you don’t accord him the reverence he deserves for having God work those unsurpassed things through him which literally make him STAND OUT head and shoulders above other prophets? How come?

Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by plainbibletruth: 11:19pm On Mar 24, 2015

Empiree:
Don't be amazed. I delibrately ignored it becuase you make no sense. And since you iterate you got your evidences from Qur'an, then let's see what Quran says about status of Jesus before God and muslims. Quran says: Jesus was no more than a messanger(prophet). Sura 5:75

"The Messiah (the son of Mary) was NO MORE THAN A MESSANGER. Many were messangers that passed away before him His mother was siddiqah(she believe in the word of Allah and His Books). The both used to eat (as human do but Allah does not eat). Look how We make the signs clear to them, yet look at how they are diluded away from the Truth"

As for his uniqueness you talked about, Quran say it merely a sign for mnakind. And that his similitude is that of Adam.

Sura 3:59-60

The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam. He created him from dust and then said to him "Be! and he was". The truth (comes) from Allah alone; so be not of those who doubt".

So from Qur'an it's clear that Jesus is 100% human being, a messnager and prophet of God. Nothing more. And his status as God's servant can never be undermined by Muslims.

Now, on the issue of him being called God in your Bible, then, you have to agree with me that your Bible contradicts itself if you think Jesus is God when your same Bible called him prophet, servant. Besides, places he's called God/god in the bible it's Bible writers and others that called him by that.

So it is your persnal doctrine to think because Jesus had those 3 unparralled attritubes he's more than prophet. Prove to me from your Bible that Jesus said that. Very simple question.

As for "returning to source" according to you, which source exactly?. Bible?. Now let's see.

Show me where in the Bible Jesus said he was given Bible
Show me where in the Bible it called itself bible
Show me in the bible where it says this is the bible "according to Jesus"
And which bible exactly because you many of them. I can name them if you want.

I was not the one who brought up the issue you are raising.

My claim is simply this:
According to the Quran -
Jesus birth was unique and supernatural:
- Sura 3:45 – 47
Jesus performed miracles, signs and wonders:
- Sura 3: 49; 5:110
Jesus ascended to heaven, so the end of his life was unique and supernatural:
- Sura 3:55

Therefore Christ’s life was unique and supernatural. The FACTS of the virgin pregnancy and birth, the miracles and the ascension of Jesus Christ make him the MOST UNIQUE and SUPERNATURAL PERSON who ever lived because he is the ONLY ONE that has or combines ALL these three attributes put together.

However this fact seems to have escaped Muslims like yourself.

You revere Mohammed: You give him deferential honour. Yet Jesus who was more unique in the ways pointed out above is given only a second place (or perhaps third or fourth or … … place?) by you.
Does that not seem strange?

Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by plainbibletruth: 8:43pm On Mar 24, 2015

Empiree:

I’m amazed!
I’m amazed because I believe you should be smarter.
The very first issue I presented is the uniqueness of Jesus from the Quran. Is this a fact or not? The FACTS of the virgin pregnancy and birth, the miracles and the ascension of Jesus Christ IN ONE PERSON.

Is there anybody who combines all the three attributes I listed in one person? You did not address this.

I believe I was plain on what I presented; so I don’t know the “wayo” you’re talking about.

In addition I didn’t say Jesus Christ was not a prophet or a messenger. Not at all! I only added that he was more than those. He combined those offices and much more. So your quotes did not really disprove anything.

You haven’t proved my challenge wrong. Simply this: show any other person who has or combines ALL these three attributes put together in one person.

It is not about cooking up my own opinion. I’m saying that evidence from your holy book, the Quran, shows clearly the uniqueness of Jesus Christ. The issue then is why has this fact escaped Muslims like yourself? Strange?

When the evidence from the Quran about Jesus is accepted by any Muslim it becomes easy to then go to the more comprehensive source of information about him – the Bible – to get details on him that show him for who he truly is.

So on your question; the Gospels in the following portions give answer:
As Lord – John 8:58, 11:25, 13:13-14. Luke 6:5, 22:67-70, 23:3. Additionally the book of Revelation 1:8.
As Saviour – John 10:11, 15.
These are clearly Jesus’ own words and claims.

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by plainbibletruth: 11:22pm On Mar 23, 2015

Empiree:
Nice try...

That was a fair attempt!

But you missed out one simple thing:
The FACTS of the virgin pregnancy and birth, the miracles and the ascension of Jesus Christ make him the MOST UNIQUE and SUPERNATURAL PERSON who ever lived because he is the ONLY ONE that has or combines ALL these three attributes put together.

So by your amplification -

Unparalled simply means exceptional, having no equal etc

unique means being the only one of its kind; unlike anything else. Now let's take a look at your assertions

Note again what I said: he is the ONLY ONE that has or combines ALL these three attributes put together in one person.
I challenge you to show otherwise.

NONE of all those you attempted has ALL THREE put together in ONE PERSON!
In spite of this Muslims still don’t accord him the high place he deserves.

Now do you get it?

Jesus Christ is therefore more than a prophet or a messenger.
Jesus Christ is saviour and Lord of all!

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by plainbibletruth: 6:29pm On Mar 22, 2015

Even the Quran shows Jesus to be more UNIQUE than any other ‘prophet’ yet this FACT is ignored by millions of Muslims who should accord him the reverence he deserves by accepting him as their saviour.

Instead Empiree, Rilwayne001, and Co are busy arguing about non-essentials while their eternal destinies are at stake.

3 UNPARALLED UNIQUE THINGS ABOUT JESUS

Jesus birth was unique and supernatural:
- Sura 3:45 – 47
Jesus performed miracles, signs and wonders:
- Sura 3: 49; 5:110
Jesus ascended to heaven, so the end of his life was unique and supernatural:
- Sura 3:55

Therefore Christ’s life was unique and supernatural.
Jesus died on the cross, so that we might have forgiveness of our sins, and also rose from the grave, and conquered death.

Wouldn’t these – his unique and supernatural birth, his unique and supernatural life and his unique and supernatural end of his life – make him the ONLY PERSON who ever lived and had all these UNPARALLELED qualities in these three areas COMBINED and not just in one or two?

Do these not make him the MOST UNIQUE and supernatural person that ever lived?
Does that not demand an UNEQUALED response to him from you?

Truly that (responding to him by believing on him as SAVIOUR) will be the starting point to knowing him more and understanding the Bible.
Any other thing will be beating about the bush or groping in the DARK.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by plainbibletruth: 1:00pm On Mar 16, 2015

Abuamam:
Quote
"1. Did Jesus read the bible? provide your proof

2. Was he given the bible or the gospel?

Mat 4:23 Jesus went throughout Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every disease and sickness among the people.

‘ Mark 1:14-15 The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel’"

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor;

3. Did he read the bible or book of Esaias?

Luke 4:16-20 "And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias .And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him."
Unquote.

Of course not. He read the Injeel.

3 UNPARALLED UNIQUE THINGS ABOUT JESUS

Jesus birth was unique and supernatural:
- Sura 3:45 – 47
Jesus performed miracles, signs and wonders:
- Sura 3: 49; 5:110
Jesus ascended to heaven, so the end of his life was unique and supernatural:
- Sura 3:55

Therefore Christ’s life was unique and supernatural.
Jesus died on the cross, so that we might have forgiveness of our sins, and also rose from the grave, and conquered death.

Wouldn’t these – his unique and supernatural birth, his unique and supernatural life and his unique and supernatural end of his life – make him the ONLY PERSON who ever lived and had all these UNPARALLELED qualities in these three areas COMBINED and not just in one or two?

Do these not make him the MOST UNIQUE and supernatural person that ever lived?
Does that not demand an UNEQUALED response to him from you?

Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by plainbibletruth: 3:39pm On Mar 15, 2015

Empiree:
So what is that "core communication" different authors "agreed" upon, please?

The core message can be summarized as follows:
Man is inherently a sinner as a result of the decision of our first parents, Adam & Eve to choose against God in the Garden of Eden.
God in love extended grace to man by taking steps to resolve the sin problem.
Jesus Christ became the ultimate sacrifice and solution for the sin problem.
Anyone who believes in him is saved and has eternal life.

Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by plainbibletruth: 11:13pm On Mar 12, 2015

Empiree:
Pls, no offense intended but what you said up there makes no sense. You brothers need lots of studies in theology. I can use your bible to refute what you said.

By the way, which Gospel of all over 40 different versions did Jesus preached?

The gospel means “good news”.
This “good news” was recorded by different authors.
So the ‘message’ they present as well as their recorded writings can be termed ‘the gospel’.
The gospel therefore is as much a message (and the embodiment of that message) as well as the recorded message.
The key issue is that the CENTRAL MESSAGE of these recordings all agree.
In other words, it is not that the message – the “good news” – is presented in many recorded forms that should be of greater concern but that their CORE COMMUNICATION agree on a unifying theme.
That is the beauty of the “good news”.

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by plainbibletruth: 8:06pm On Mar 12, 2015

Rilwayne001:
Including the contradictions and inconsistencies?
Just who are those that wrote it? starting from the OT

Which means without Jesus God is dumb? Or that when jesus (word of god) was on earth, how come god was still able to conversate with people?

Is the bible about the life of jesus or the gospel as inted in Mark 1:14-15 The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel’" ?

And please list the 40 writers of the bible, starting from the OT.

The gospel simply means good news.
The good news about God’s work culminating in Jesus Christ’s
death on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins, including his resurrection from the grave which proved that he was victorious and conquered death.
The coming into the world of Jesus Christ is God's ULTIMATE revelation to mankind.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by plainbibletruth: 1:27pm On Mar 10, 2015

Rilwayne001:
Which means he has nothing to do with the bible? or can you please elaborate on what you said above?

What was in existence when Jesus Christ lived on earth was the Old Testament.
The New Testament was written subsequently.
Many manuscripts exist of these in the original languages.
What we have today are various translations from these original languages.

The Quran too has different translations.

The true Muslim must believe in the authenticity of the Bible as Mohammed did – Sura 5: 68, Sura 21: 7

When Jesus Christ is called THE WORD OF GOD it means he embodies all of God’s revelation to mankind.

See Sura 3:45; 5: 46, 110; 57:27.

Is that title not also one of Jesus’ titles in the Quran – i.e. the title of the Word of God.

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