Ariani:


So who did this study that says that Igbos borrowed our Afa from Ifa of Yorubas?
Did the person come to Igbo land to ask us questions, or he just stayed in Ibadan and Lagos and started distorting Igbo history without our knowledge?

You don't think this is not only insulting, but provocative?

Look,our fathers and grandfathers might have for whatever reason allowed you lots get away with these historical distortions and provocations, but bear in mind that this current Igbo generation will not.

Just dey your dey.
No come use your blues spoil our reggae.

If you want to do research on Afa,come to Igboland and ask us questions, maybe when you are done, you will see that you borrowed from us, since you can't mind your business.

Kindly read up The Meaning and Method of Afa Divination among the Northern Nsukka Ibo by AUSTIN J. SHELTON’
State University of New York, 1965

Denn:


I didn't trash Igbos.

The fact that something originates from somewhere doesn't make the Igbos lesser. Why are you suffering from a serious case of inferiority complex like this?

We are communicating in english, a language that doesn't belong to our tribes, yet you find ancient history intimidating?

Your desperate to berate Igbos as uncreative, lowly and lacking a culture and civilization of their own through out this thread show you are trash talking Igbos.

Whenever Igbos have been proven to own a thing, you crawl out of your hole to attempt to take it from them and discredit them and give credit to other tribes.

What the hell is your problem? Did Igbos take anything from you?

Why exactly are you moving this crazy when it comes to Igbos. What sort of inferiority complex are you suffering from that you have to fight to credit igbo culture and civilization to your Yoruba and Benin?

Pathetic.


No, Afa didn't originate in Yoruba. Stop peddling that falsehood to give yourself a false sense of superiority and achievement.

Boudiccao:


You saw two similar words used by two different groups just like Okute and Okwuta and you jumped into a conclusion that Igbos got Afa from Ifa.

That is supremacist complex and pseudo history.

Get the Bleep out of here.

By the way I understand Yoruba.

Similar words found in both groups.

Afa/Ifa
Mmili/Omi
Onu/Enu
Isee/Ase

Denn:


Kindly read up The Meaning and Method of Afa Divination among the Northern Nsukka Ibo by AUSTIN J. SHELTON’
State University of New York, 1965

Trash. Let the historians go round Igboland and make research.

Denn:


Kindly read up The Meaning and Method of Afa Divination among the Northern Nsukka Ibo by AUSTIN J. SHELTON’
State University of New York, 1965

Are you aware the Igbo and Yoruba belong to the same language family, Niger-Congo and a branch of that language YEAI group.

Denn:

Try something new. Ask yourself, What is the origin of Afa in Igbo land?
Does it relate to travelling medicine men from other areas?
You can ask more experienced people.

No be only experienced people. Afa has nothing to do with Ifa. Igbos didn't take anything from you.

bomb24:


lol so Apt! you schooled the dimwits. great empires/kingdoms were not known to be too be weak and fragile, great kingdoms had strong allies or subordinates which they called upon in the Time of war and were not basically known to give in quickly. the stories surrounding the Benin expedition point to only one fact that the kingdom was weak and vulnerable. I'm quite sure they had no hegemony/imperial rule over the delta Igbos.

The Ekumeku war proved one thing among the Anioma and their kit and kin over niger " they were united in the face of external threats" which means Benin was of no threat to their very existence as there were being tamed in the Agboh Axis.

The delta Igbos succumbed to the anti-Igbo sentiments and shied away from their identity that is why today their history is being propagated by another ethnic group, assuming they held on to their Igbo pride that bullshit of being subdued wouldn't have had a standing ground.

The Aros shouldn't be compared to Benin's, aros were the don dadas of the game they had strong logistics, allies from different war clans in Igbo land and beyond, these clans paved way for them to successfully raid villages. the British met their match with the aros they also confessed to the sophisticated weapons the aros used in the battle and the trenches they dug to halt their advancement, this was why the battle lasted for a very long time, unlike Benin, just a single gunshot and their kingdom turned into ashes.

forget the fairytales none of these tribes ever thought about raiding Igbo land if they did they wouldn't have survived.

The only reason Aro-Anglo war didn't last longer was that the British were cunning.

Before the war , they went on a campaign where by they lured the people to bring out their guns to be broken, by either paying them for submitting their guns or by using their local police.
The British were nicknamed "Ndi otiji Egbe" in the Aro area for this.
After a while the Aro sensed what was happening, and halted the campaign, but it was too late by then, they had lost too many guns and it took the Igbo local blacksmiths time to reproduce enough guns on time to ready the Aro Confederate for the war.


The Aro were simply outwitted and out gunned.

But they atleast mounted a resistance for 6 months.

The fable Empire of one fat king that every one else prostrate before like they don't have brains of their own lasted just a bit over 1 day before capitulating.

Yet these mad people come out and tell us how their useless weak village Monarchical system of Government were stronger than our Republican system, and how it made them more civilised than us. Lol!
Of course the British were praising their stupid Monarchical system because they knew it made things quite easy for their colonial intents. They just took out the king or just replaced him with a stooge and the entire people bowed to the British.

In IGBOLAND,there was no king.
It was a very complex society of age grade leaders, elder councils, priests of deities, titled men, women groups ( Umuada and Omus) , etc.
All having equal stake in the day to day governance of the society.
There was no visible head for them to decapitate and bring everyone else under control.
They knew they were going to face stiff resistance in Igboland and that the campaign would cost them alot in human and resources.
Why would you expect them to praise such a system of Government?

bomb24:


lol and the Aros held them for 5 months.

you obviously know little about colonial conquests.

on December 28 1901, Arochukwu was captured after 4 days of battle and the Ibini Ukpabi shrine was blown up.

Kindly state the acclaimed 5 months for us.

Denn:


Kindly read up The Meaning and Method of Afa Divination among the Northern Nsukka Ibo by AUSTIN J. SHELTON’
State University of New York, 1965

Post the relevant excerpt from the study that says that Igbos borrowed Afa from Yoruba Ifa

I don't have time to read an entire book.

Boudiccao:



Your desperate to berate Igbos as uncreative, lowly and lacking a culture and civilization of their own through out this thread show you are trash talking Igbos.

Whenever Igbos have been proven to own a thing, you crawl out of your hole to attempt to take it from them and discredit them and give credit to other tribes.

What the hell is your problem? Did Igbos take anything from you?

Why exactly are you moving this crazy when it comes to Igbos. What sort of inferiority complex are you suffering from that you have to fight to credit igbo culture and civilization to your Yoruba and Benin?

Pathetic.


No, Afa didn't originate in Yoruba. Stop peddling that falsehood to give yourself a false sense of superiority and achievement.

Read up. I am not the issue here. direct your musket to further research or leave the subject.

Denn:


you obviously know little about colonial conquests.

on December 28 1901, Arochukwu was captured after 4 days of battle and the Ibini Ukpabi shrine was blown up.

Kindly state the acclaimed 5 months for us.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Aro_War

However, Arochukwu was captured on December 28 after four days of fierce battles in and around the city. As a result, the Ibini Ukpabi shrine was allegedly blown up. Battles between British and Aro forces continued throughout the region until spring 1902 when Aro forces were defeated in the last major battle at Bende. The Aro Expedition ended three weeks later.

IDENNAA:


By the way I understand Yoruba.

Similar words found in both groups.

Afa/Ifa
Mmili/Omi
Onu/Enu
Isee/Ase

The bigot thinks because both groups share similar words then Igbos took from Yorubas and because they have similar patterns in their cultures, then Igbos took it from Yorubas.


He is an ethnic bigot because following his logic Igbos have no civilization, that is what he has been trying to imply and peddle through out this thread.

Ariani:


The only reason Aro-Anglo war didn't last longer was that the British were cunning.

Before the war , they went on a campaign where by they lured the people to bring out their guns to be broken, by either paying them for submitting their guns or by using their local police.
The British were nicknamed "Ndi otiji Egbe" in the Aro area for this.
After a while the Aro sensed what was happening, and halted the campaign, but it was too late by then, they had lost too many guns and it took the Igbo local blacksmiths time to reproduce enough guns on time to ready the Aro Confederate for the war.


The Aro were simply outwitted and out gunned.

But they atleast mounted a resistance for 6 months.

The fable Empire of one fat king that every one else prostrate before like they don't have brains of their own lasted just a bit over 1 day before capitulating.

Yet these mad people come out and tell us how there useless weak village Monarchical system of Government were stronger than our Republican system, and how it made them more civilised than us. Lol!
Of course the British were praising their stupid Monarchical system because they knew it made things quite easy for their colonial intents. They just took out the king or just replaced him with a stooge and the entire people bowed to the British.

In IGBOLAND,there was no king.
It was a very complex society of age grade leaders, elder councils, priests of deities, titled men, women groups ( Umuada and Omus) , etc.
All having equal stake in the day to day governance of the society.
There was no visible head for them to decapitate and bring everyone else under control.
They knew they were going to face stiff resistance in Igboland and that the campaign would cost them alot in human and resources.
Why would you expect them to praise such a system of Government?

Is it another Arochukwu that was conquered in 1901? Give dates of this wonderful events you just described.

Denn:


you obviously know little about colonial conquests.

on December 28 1901, Arochukwu was captured after 4 days of battle and the Ibini Ukpabi shrine was blown up.

Kindly state the acclaimed 5 months for us.

The battle started in November 1901 and ended in March 1902 now decipher

Ariani:


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Aro_War

State the 5 months in which the Arochukwu war allegedly was waged

bomb24:


The battle started in November 1901 and ended in March 1902 now decipher

Arochukwu was conquered on December 28, 1901. Why adding other battles for other lands into it?

Denn:


Is it another Arochukwu that was conquered in 1901? Give dates of this wonderful events you just described.

"However, Arochukwu was captured on December 28 after four days of fierce battles in and around the city. As a result, the Ibini Ukpabi shrine was allegedly blown up. Battles between British and Aro forces continued throughout the region until spring 1902 when Aro forces were defeated in the last major battle at Bende. The Aro Expedition ended three weeks later."

Arochukwu had no fat lazy man people are bowing down to.

When Ibini Ukpabi shrine was captured, the Aro forces didn't surrender immediately.
They opened up new battle grounds and the war ranged on for 5 months.

Nov 1901 to March 1902.

Denn:


Arochukwu was conquered on December 28, 1901. Why adding other battles for other lands into it?

Because Arochukwu was a Confederate.
Arochukwu town is the headquarters of the confederation.
So when Arochukwu town fell, the confederation rallied around and fought to protect other parts of the confederation with hope to push the British forces back and reclaim the headquarters of the confederation, ie Arochukwu town.

This is not your mushroom empire of fairy tales. That was captured in a day. And that was it.

Ariani:


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Aro_War

However, Arochukwu was captured on December 28 after four days of fierce battles in and around the city. As a result, the Ibini Ukpabi shrine was allegedly blown up. Battles between British and Aro forces continued throughout the region until spring 1902 when Aro forces were defeated in the last major battle at Bende. The Aro Expedition ended three weeks later.

BATTLES FOUGHT DURING THE EXPEDITION
Battles in the Oguta/Owerri area (November 1901)
Battles of Esu Itu (December 1901)
Battles of Arochukwu (December 1901)
Battle of Edimma (January 1902)
Battle of Ikotobo (January 1902)
Battle of Ikorodaka (February 1902)
Battle of Bende (March 1902)

These were different battles for different areas. Battle of Arochukwu was done and dusted in 4 days. simple.

Denn:


BATTLES FOUGHT DURING THE EXPEDITION
Battles in the Oguta/Owerri area (November 1901)
Battles of Esu Itu (December 1901)
Battles of Arochukwu (December 1901)
Battle of Edimma (January 1902)
Battle of Ikotobo (January 1902)
Battle of Ikorodaka (February 1902)
Battle of Bende (March 1902)

These were different battles for different areas. Battle of Arochukwu was done and dusted in 4 days. simple.

You are not teachable.

There is Arochukwu town,and there is Arochukwu Confederate headed by Aros with it's headquarters at Arochukwu town.

It's like Enugu City and Enugu State.
You capture Enugu city, but you haven't captured Enugu State. The people will simply leave the Enugu city and fight you in trenches dug in other towns within Enugu State, but outside Enugu City.

A war is made up of battles.

Ariani:


Because Arochukwu was a Confederate.
Arochukwu town is the headquarters of the confederation.
So when Arochukwu town fell, the confederation rallied around and fought to protect other parts of the confederation with hope to push the British forces back and reclaim the headquarters of the confederation, ie Arochukwu town.

This is not your mushroom empire of fairy tales. That was captured in a day. And that was it.

When you all started the narrative, you painted it as if Arochukwu held the British at bay for 5 months. Now, it is clear to the world that Arochukwu was seized in 4 days. The British took their war machine all round to conquer 4 other settlements by March of 1902. These are the facts.

More shared words/etymology.

E pada/ gbadaa , both mean different things but they both had to do with movements.

E jalo/ kaije both mean the same thing. Let's go.

Denn:


When you all started the narrative, you painted it as if Arochukwu held the British at bay for 5 months. Now, it is clear to the world that Arochukwu was seized in 4 days. The British took their war machine all round to conquer 4 other settlements by March of 1902. These are the facts.

Arochukwu is the name of the confederation and also name of the chief town
You are the confused one.

Aro confederation was not a single town.
It's a group of related and rightly knitted Igbo groups with Arochukwu town as it's headquarters.

Arochukwu fought the British four 5 months.
Every Igbo man knows that Aros never acted alone. They always worked with their Abam, Edda, Ohafia, etc allies.
They were all called Aro people because the Aro was the brain and the others were the brawn.

need to go sleep now.

It has been wonderful talking with you guys.

Remember, we are all brothers, irrespective of our different opinions.

Lets all reduce insults and tribal hate.

Cheers

Denn:


Arochukwu was conquered on December 28, 1901. Why adding other battles for other lands into it?

Arochukwu kingdom was defeated on March 2, 1902. though its Administrative town fell within 4 days, they still maintained their lines and pulled waves and waves of different attacks until they were finally rounded up and defeated.

Men!! What a thread.
This thread was quite expository with lots of learned and logical contributions from both parties.

A pure eye opener.

I liked the subtle jabs here and there tho. It made the thread lively.

Nairaland has lots of badass historians o!!

Respect!!!

Ariani:


Don't be silly.

Igbos sold criminals among ourselves to Aro chukwu slave traders and their agents.
Sometimes prisoners of wars between two Igbo communities were also sold.
There were also internal Igbo kidnappers who kidnapped people from their farms and sold to slave agents who themselves were Igbos.

Children who were stubborn to parents were sold into slavery by their parents.

Bad uncles dragging their late brothers lands, also sold their late brother children to slavery.

No non Igbo ever ventured into Igboland to capture Igbos and sell. Infact anyone foolish enough to try such would be captured as slaves himself and sold as slave by Igbos.

Igalas were well contained and pushed back by Northern Igbos( Nsukka and Northern Anambra groups).

Nwanne you sabi history well abeg

bomb24:


Oga Benin was defeated by a force of 200 men and not basically 3000 as you implied. history revision will not be tolerated on this forum.

lol ignorance. The 250 that came at first were butchered in a far away forest

Ariani:


Nnaa.

Olisa/Orise/Orisa/Olise are not god in Igbo.
It is God!
One living being that stays up sky.


They are not same.
What is wrong with you people.

Stay your lane and let Ndiigbo tell our story ourselves.

Are you people mad or what? What type of provocation is this?

gods in Igbo is Alisi/Arusi/Arushi/Arunshi, etc.

Depending on dialect. Bad that should be the equivalence of Orisa( which by the way Yorubas pronounce as "Orisha" and not "Orisa" ) in Yoruba.

Mind your f**king businesses.

Point of correction. The yoruba spelling is orisa. But some people put the 'h' when pronouncing it

Ariani:


Post the relevant excerpt from the study that says that Igbos borrowed Afa from Yoruba Ifa

I don't have time to read an entire book.

Don't mind the bigot.
What he is calling Ifa is found throughout West Africa and it comes with different names and obviously going to have similar patterns since it's a Niger Congo stuff. No group can lay sole claims of its origin.


How a supremacist woke up to peddle the trash of igbo taking it from Yoruba is beyond me.

Just because Yoruba religion is over hyped in modern Nigeria doesn't mean other West Africans don't have the same belief systems and solid religion of their own.
You can blame the Europeans for that. Once the focus on something, they tend to keep others at the back.

Afa, Ifa, Aha, Iha and other names it bears is found throughout the West African region and each group have their gods and their way of doing things.