₦airaland Forum

Will women themselves even vote for a woman who comes out to contest for top positions in government?

A few women have tried in the past, in case y'all have forgotten.
Where were all you 'female activists' then to carry/vote those women into the promised land?

Or should we still blame this obvious inability for grownup Nigerian women to rally round and vote fellow women, on 'societal conditioning'?

Total lack of personal responsibility is all... Pffft

Okay cool.

About wanting to know, you definitely do not come across as genuinely curious. More like wanting to mock those who are talking about it because you feel like you don’t see what the big deal is.
But time will tell.
And if I’m wrong about you, I’ll apologize.

PrimadonnaO:
You were making it about me.

Rathr than addressing the issue, you were dapting the discourse to me. That's what I meant by personalising. I was refraining myself from stating you were committing an argumentum ad hominem.

Since you were quoting me, you should have stuck to the things I was talking about.

There were a lot of assumptions in your earlier response.

I made no mention of Ini, no mention of feminists... nothing that suggested I was shaming women who spoke about women marginalisation.

I really don't like having discussions about feminism and feminists, because it confuses me.

I'm still wondering how feminists, Ini Edo, Chimamanda and co got into this discourse.

You're asking me if Chimamanda has no personal responsibility for her own self. That's not for me to say.

Does Chimamanda speak about being personally marginalized?

Women who say they're marginalised should speak of their own personal experiences, then we can lump it all together and know what we're really dealing with.

Women who are speaking up for others, should likewise, state specifically the ways in which the women they canvass for have been marginalized.

Only then can we truly see and know if there's much substance to the matter.

Once again, I'm going on about this because I don't know and I want to know.

I'm a woman and I don't really seem to see how I've been marginalized.

Will I say I'm not marginalized if I'm truly marginalized?

I want to know the experiences other women have had.

RightToReject:
I wonder how many times I will tell you that the greedy norm of the males in your family isn't an Igbo culture and is not a standard for the bona fide Igbos. The idea of any self-acclaimed Igbo person without a worthy surname always trying hard to tarnish the image of worthy Igbos isn't acceptable. In fact, I won't be surprised to know that in that same family of yours, regardless of how greedy you've always made the world to believe that they're, it's only the contentious and contemptuous women - who've likely been ostracized - that they usually deny real place in the family household.

Okay

FreeIgboho:
Oga you are beating about the bush. The question is marginalization. If men and women were two different tribes in Nigeria, will there be any question that one tribe is marginalized?? Do you have to look very hard to see it?

Before you draw hasty conclusions about what you're not sure of, go back and see how my conversation with cousin9999 got to this point...

When you're done, then maybe I'll spare you some time until then, stay off my mention

Favfables:
Before you draw hasty conclusions about what you're not sure of, go back and see how my conversation with cousin9999 got to this point...

When you're done, then maybe I'll spare you some time until then, stay off my mention

The old "stay off my mention" - mark of a loser: knowing full well u can't make anyone stay off your mention. I don't have to see any conversation. WOMEN ARE MARGINALIZED IN NIGERIA!!!
Even a blind person can see that.

cococandy:
Does something have to happen in every single household before it becomes an issue? If it happens in statistically significant enough numbers, then it’s an issue.

Does it happen in statistically significant numbers really? Wouldn't that be a family problem, though? Rather than viewing it as a general marginalization of the girl-child. The wholistic constitution does not deny a warning right to inherit of her father's wealth.

I’m sorry how bad does it have to be to be considered a good example?

It will be a good example if it is truly limiting.


She absolutely can. And I encourage all women to do so. However, why does she have start behind her brothers? Why does she have to experience that specific difficultly just for being a woman? Do you not see how you’re making my point? Something that’s that big of an issue, you want to make the women out to be irresponsible for speaking about it.


Doesn't that make it a case of a girl versus her brothers? In the broader context, it's not their brothers they're competing with.

So an issue yes, and a painful one but not one that justifies girl-child marginalization yes.


Where in the discourse of marginalization has any reasonable person asked a woman to not pursue her goals or seek better for herself simply because there are obstacles in her way? Absolutely no one does that. If anything we tell them to do it anyway despite any obstacles.


That's the personal responsibility we're talking about. If it matters to you, do it regardless of the obstacles! So many experiences and achievements are fraught with obstacles. But if you're determined, you can do it, especially as no one who has the right has said "a woman must not and cannot!"


The question being why should those obstacles exist just because of gender and y’all have issues with us asking

What obstacles exist because of gender? Inheriting properties?

You want more examples so you can tell me it doesn’t matter because it only happens in another place not close to you?

Lol. Not at all.

I want more irrefutable examples.


And biko, demo on how to quote separate parts of a whole text.

cococandy:
I have an example of marginalization for you. In my final year of school I wanted to run for president of my department but was told point blank that only the guys would be put on the ballot for president while the ladies would be on the ballot for Vice President. It was a small department.
Tight knit guys. Organizers in bed with each other.
So of course I didn’t run or even agree to be up for the vice presidency because I was already discouraged.

Now before you ask “why didn’t you stand up for yourself? Why didn’t you take it up with student council? Why didn’t you do this or that?”

My first question is why did gender matter in that election if female marginalization no longer exists like you want me to believe?
Why was being male a benefit to the guys who wanted to run and me being female a deterrent to me?

Finally, someone arrived @ destination, the fact that you were denied privileges of contesting for president of your department is not marginalization, lets just say they don't want you or believe in you cos my babe now Ex became the president of her department in lasu way back ... it not as if she did better
On a general level, from presidency to chairmanship is there any law that stops women from contesting, did women form a party nd inec refuse to register it
America claimed to be the most civilized country in the world, over 100+ president, how many women make the list, or should we talk of why harry clinton lose to a clown like trump, when a woman loses or do not have it there way it as to be marginalization.
If men are getting into bed with themselves what stops women from also getting to bed with themselves, is that also males fault SMH

FreeIgboho:
The old "stay off my mention" - mark of a loser: knowing full well u can't make anyone stay off your mention. I don't have to see any conversation. WOMEN ARE MARGINALIZED IN NIGERIA!!!
Even a blind person can see that.

Ok

cococandy:
So marginalization due to gender does happen?
Regardless of whether I chose to press on and fight them or give up right?
It happened and does happen. And that’s the issue.

It shouldn’t be happening.

And y’all need to stop gaslighting people who speak about it as if they are not seeing what their eyes are seeing.

@emboldened the people who prevented you from contesting weren't people who had the right to.

So it was just a mere obstacle.

Other women have gone on to becoming SUG Presidents.

I witnessed one very closely in Uniben.

cococandy:
Okay

RightToReject, PrimadonnaO

Okay nothing, the truth is that Nigerian society is lopsided and women are very much marginalized in all sorts of ways. You can even throw your wife out of your both house, the kids are yours not hers. KUDOS TO THOSE FIGHTING TO CORRECT IT A BIT.

[quote author=Swinger60 post=106707183][/quote]

You didn't remember the girls that are married off at the age of 15years and denied education.

This is one clear case of marginalization. Quite unfair.

You didn't remember the wives that their husbands banned from working. so, they depend solely on him while it fuels their ego. (they annoying thing is both families will support him and ask wife to listen to her husband)

This is one scenario where personal responsibility comes in. You should have known the ideals of the man during courtship, to know that he's patriarchal, doesn't feel ecstatic about your career ambitions, etc.

If you get married to a man and he prevents you from working, it's not "girl-child marginalization." There's no law anywhere that says you have to agree to becoming a full time housewife because your husband said so.

A man is the head of the house and his wife should respect him, so a woman should marry the man she knows she can respect and obey.

And, I read where you said women depends on men for everything, what of the home where the woman is the bread winner nko? And, the husband stiill wants to be worshipped as alpha and omega, if wife rebels, then, she is not a good a wife.

You may have to provide more clarity on what "being worshipped" means.

But again, that isn't a case of marginalization.

That's people's personal problems.

We can discuss these things under a different heading... not as a reference point for marginalisation.

You also forgetting that a girl child can get herself raped just for being a girl. and, all blames will be on her with comments like, why did you eat his money? why did you go to party? why did you go to read alone at that church, school? etc. Why did you give him his number? with this kind of breast and nyash, that's why the uncle raped you. and so many bla bla.

Yeah, really really terrible. I have very strong opinions about this, too. Rape makes my blood boil!

But not marginalization.

Perhaps, the OP should have started by stating what marginalization is.

You said men pay "child support" in this country or in another planet? Nigeria that a man will wake up one morning and send his wife and children away without any financial support till those children grows.

Yes, but they're still legally expected to pay child support.

cococandy:
Ask anyone reading this thread to question themselves what they would think if a woman rose up today to run for president.

Would they think “oh here’s a human being running for office. Let me see if they are qualified and I’ll vote or not vote”.

Or will they think “a woman is running for office. Women are emotional, illogical, irrational bla bla bla, so I’ll be voting for the man”
Thereby excluding a whole group of people based on social conditioning. But they’ll tell you because there’s no specific law that powers their actions, then those women are facing no barriers.

This shouldn’t even be a conversation.
Especially not in our dear Nigeria.
Places that rank higher on gender equality still recognize they have issues with inequality much less our country.

You've said it all.

All this anger and denial because of International Women's Day.

The person who created this thread needs to conduct an in depth interview of women and not work with their assumptions.

@your first paragraph, there was actually such a thread and an overwhelming majority of male posters were against women climbing the ladder, yet in the same breath claiming that females were pretending to be victimized. I can't go back for that link, but in that thread one can see that men deeply hate women doing anything that challenges their position. They claim women cannot hold power and that they would never vote a woman even if she's competent, yet they are here paying lip service.

The usual gaslighting. In real life they think women are too dumb, beneath and unsuitable to achieve anything, then claim the women in their circles are doing so much. These people are just running after their tails in denial. They go to university with females and yet still feel females don't deserve the opportunities that they do, and should work hard to prove themselves (as usual), because women are emotional and can't handle pressure and are better designed for house wifery, etc etc. Under this thread they have ignored that part and are hard at trivializing women issues by claiming they don't exist.

There is a glass ceiling for women, there are just things that men will never have to go through. And to say that because women are achieving things means that there's no such thing is just the usual twisting and turning of males who want to hold on to their misogynist, segregationist ways.

It is only in Nigeria that men will claim what is and isn't for women. As you say, there is gender inequality worldwide, but it is in the deeply patriarchal Nigerian society that Nigerians claim it doesn't exist. Lol. These people and imposter syndrome.

It's like they are pretending that with all their patriarchal ways they've been transported to the West and suddenly regard human rights.

This thread is the usual mansplaining.

Once males have to face the reality about female lives, their myopic reflex thought without even listening or thinking about it is always that women must be pulling out victim cards to "control" them.

The same males who want the same rights as white men to vote, work where they please, eat and drive wherever they wish to, and get married without inhibitions. They suddenly want their black lives to matter, with their victim cards. Why should white people care, when you claim to be marginalized and they have institutionalized freedoms so it doesn't concern them because blacks must obviously be card carrying members of the black victim club?

The same people who complain and lament, and try to change their IP addresses et al, when employers reject them in freelancing because they are Nigerian. They've forgotten that they have the same opportunity to achieve things then and stop looking for sympathy.

But just mention females, and it means they are asking for too much and faking marginalization.

Misogyny is truly a brand of hypocritic senselessness.

Nothing to add.

I’ve stopped replying them

BRATISLAVA:
You've said it all.

All this anger and denial because of International Women's Day.

The person who created this thread needs to conduct an in depth interview of women and not work with their assumptions.

@your first paragraph, there was actually such a thread and an overwhelming majority of male posters were against women climbing the ladder, yet in the same breath claiming that females were pretending to be victimized. I can't go back for that link, but in that thread one can see that men deeply hate women doing anything that challenges their position. They claim women cannot hold power and that they would never vote a woman even if she's competent, yet they are here paying lip service.

The usual gaslighting. In real life they think women are too dumb, beneath and unsuitable to achieve anything, then claim the women in their circles are doing so much. These people are just running after their tails in denial. They go to university with females and yet still feel females don't deserve the opportunities that they do, and should work hard to prove themselves (as usual), because women are emotional and can't handle pressure and are better designed for house wifery, etc etc. Under this thread they have ignored that part and are hard at trivializing women issues by claiming they don't exist.

There is a glass ceiling for women, there are just things that men will never have to go through. And to say that because women are achieving things means that there's no such thing is just the usual twisting and turning of males who want to hold on to their misogynist, segregationist ways.

It is only in Nigeria that men will claim what is and isn't for women. As you say, there is gender inequality worldwide, but it is in the deeply patriarchal Nigerian society that Nigerians claim it doesn't exist. Lol. These people and imposter syndrome.

It's like they are pretending that with all their patriarchal ways they've been transported to the West and suddenly regard human rights.

This thread is the usual mansplaining.

BRATISLAVA:
You've said it all.

All this anger and denial because of International Women's Day.

The person who created this thread needs to conduct an in depth interview of women and not work with their assumptions.

@your first paragraph, there was actually such a thread and an overwhelming majority of male posters were against women climbing the ladder, yet in the same breath claiming that females were pretending to be victimized. I can't go back for that link, but in that thread one can see that men deeply hate women doing anything that challenges their position. They claim women cannot hold power and that they would never vote a woman even if she's competent, yet they are here paying lip service.

The usual gaslighting. In real life they think women are too dumb, beneath and unsuitable to achieve anything, then claim the women in their circles are doing so much. These people are just running after their tails in denial. They go to university with females and yet still feel females don't deserve the opportunities that they do, and should work hard to prove themselves (as usual), because women are emotional and can't handle pressure and are better designed for house wifery, etc etc. Under this thread they have ignored that part and are hard at trivializing women issues by claiming they don't exist.

There is a glass ceiling for women, there are just things that men will never have to go through. And to say that because women are achieving things means that there's no such thing is just the usual twisting and turning of males who want to hold on to their misogynist, segregationist ways.

It is only in Nigeria that men will claim what is and isn't for women. As you say, there is gender inequality worldwide, but it is in the deeply patriarchal Nigerian society that Nigerians claim it doesn't exist. Lol. These people and imposter syndrome.

It's like they are pretending that with all their patriarchal ways they've been transported to the West and suddenly regard human rights.

This thread is the usual mansplaining.

I really admire the strength you and cococandy have to answer these woman haters and confused women that go along with the crap they write.

I wish you guys more strength to continue.

FreeIgboho:
In some SOCIETIES there are almost equal number men and women doctotos and nurses. Why would OBG/YN doctors be mostly men??
But the question is marginalization. If men and women were two different tribes in Nigeria, it will be obvious to anybody that one tribe is marginalized

I give up on you...
U have no data or evidence to back your claims ...u people just used grammar like Marginalization, patriarchy, and all manner of English to make women look like victim...this is 2021 where women are CEO of banks, doctorss, lawyers, but because they are not in power they cry foul...
Some people even add pay gap to it....Nigeria that pays women that go on live for 3months the same pay as men that work for 12months will still cry gender pay gap .. it's just funny...

advanceDNA:
I give up on you...
U have no data or evidence to back your claims ...u people just used grammar like Marginalization, patriarchy, and all manner of English to make women look like victim...this is 2021 where women are CEO of banks, doctorss, lawyers, but because they are not in power they cry foul...
Some people even add pay gap to it....Nigeria that pays women that go on live for 3months the same pay as men that work for 12months will still cry gender pay gap .. it's just funny...

Data my ass. You are beating about the bush. The question is marginalization. Women in Nigeria are marginalized in all sorts of ways. If men and women were two different tribes in Nigeria, will there be any question that one tribe is marginalized?? Do you even have to look hard to see it?

FreeIgboho:
And that's why they are crying marginalization yet you are saying they are not marginalised, when the results clearly shows THEY ARE! The females are not be blamed. The paternalistic society is to be blamed and needs to be reformed and that is what they are fighting for. Nobody is asking you to hand over anything

The female are not be blamed.....but the men are to be blame for all this right

Reformed to what exactly because I don't understand.

Godoverevery:
The female are not be blamed.....but the men are to be blame for all this right

Reformed to what exactly because I don't understand.

Societal structure itself is to be blamed (including traditions, customs, culture, expectations, conditioning, etc - which were of course set by the dominant sex)..
Reformed to what? You may start by giving the female child EXACTLY the same rights as the male child in her father's house including the right to propagate her surname (have all or some of her children bear her last name) - which is basically the only reason Nigerian parents prefer a male (if they must have only one child).

FreeIgboho:
Societal structure itself is to be blamed (including traditions, customs, culture, expectations, conditioning, etc - which were of course set by the dominant sex)..
Reformed to what? You may start by giving the female child EXACTLY the same rights as the male child in her father's house including the right to propagate her surname (have all or some of her children bear her last name) - which is basically the only reason Nigerian parents prefer a male (if they must have only one child).

That the problem choosing selectively... How about she tell her father not to accept bride price or anything from the man so she can have the right

PrimadonnaO:
You were making it about me.

Rathr than addressing the issue, you were dapting the discourse to me. That's what I meant by personalising. I was refraining myself from stating you were committing an argumentum ad hominem.

Since you were quoting me, you should have stuck to the things I was talking about.

There were a lot of assumptions in your earlier response.

I made no mention of Ini, no mention of feminists... nothing that suggested I was shaming women who spoke about women marginalisation.

I really don't like having discussions about feminism and feminists, because it confuses me.

I'm still wondering how feminists, Ini Edo, Chimamanda and co got into this discourse.

You're asking me if Chimamanda has no personal responsibility for her own self. That's not for me to say.

Does Chimamanda speak about being personally marginalized?

Women who say they're marginalised should speak of their own personal experiences, then we can lump it all together and know what we're really dealing with.

Women who are speaking up for others, should likewise, state specifically the ways in which the women they canvass for have been marginalized.

Only then can we truly see and know if there's much substance to the matter.

Once again, I'm going on about this because I don't know and I want to know.

I'm a woman and I don't really seem to see how I've been marginalized.

Will I say I'm not marginalized if I'm truly marginalized?

I want to know the experiences other women have had.

Coco DID share her experience at Uni and you dismissed it.

shaybebaby:
Coco DID share her experience at Uni and you dismissed it.

She wanted to have a post alot of people are eyeing so definitely some will try to demoralising her......Men face that everytime.

Everything is fair in war.....just because she decided to dwell on negative comments and let it affect her is her own fault solely.

Marginalisation would have been if she wasn't eligible to contest or vote.

Evert male is chauvinist. Its nature at play. Most of them let it get into their heads.

FreeIgboho:
Data my ass. You are beating about the bush. The question is marginalization. Women in Nigeria are marginalized in all sorts of ways. If men and women were two different tribes in Nigeria, will there be any question that one tribe is marginalized?? Do you even have to look hard to see it?

u are a educated for fvck sake....why the heck are u talking without examples ..u are just screaming marginalization...where is the data..
in advanced counries women dont collect full pay when they go on maternity leave if thyeve not worked for more 600hours...

here, they will take maternity and annual.. amd get their full pay as men...
which company pays swomen less for the same role in nigeria..
which school prevent women from addmission..
which parastatal or agency did government say women cant head....

show me how women are deliberately significantly marginalized in 2021 that men dont have a fair share..

u talked about jobs like carpentry, plumbing...i told u women dont want to be represented in all these jobs, in fact if you offer them those jobs, they will call it an insult...they are on this forum as them if they want to be plumbers and carpenters..
.its about power, power they dont want to contest or compete for....if you cant see that......then u are just an ordinary cry baby like them

Godoverevery:
That the problem choosing selectively... How about she tell her father not to accept bride price or anything from the man so she can have the right

That's exactly part of the societal structure that needs reforming: bride prices. How does it benefit the woman, how is it fair to her, and how is it her fault? The whole thing needs reforming. The system is not fair-

The marginalization faced by some women is NOT because of their gender. More often than not, marginalization is a result of being in a minority group. So if you as a woman finds yourself in the midst of 100 men and 10 women, chances are your voice is less likely to be heard. But this is not because you're a woman. A man in the same environment may face the same issue.

For women like Ini Edo and other high-achieving women, they need to come out and describe their experiences. Impostor syndrome is not marginalization. A lot of high achievers face impostor syndrome and then claim marginalization upon recovery. Impostor syndrome is simply a psychological problem.

While I agree that certain cultural issues exist, coming out to talk about marginalization is not the way forward. Women with the interest of breaking these barriers are out there in numbers. For example, we now have female bishops and female pastors. If women are truly interested in these things, nobody will stop them. Imagine men claiming marginalization simply because 99.9% of nuns (reverend sisters) are female? Truth is that men don't give a f**k about such duties. If women want to take over Rome, then come out and express yourself. In Osun state, women lead the traditional religion. In Akure, women become Kings. The founder of Foursquare Gospel Church is a woman. These are just a few.

While there are more male-dominated traditions, more women need to show interest NOT sit back and talk about marginalization on Instagram. Nothing has ever been given on a silver platter.

And romantically, the notion out there is that women generally love dominant men. How can your man become dominant by trying to subjugate him? How many wives today will love to see their husbands kneel before a woman in church for anointing service? How many women want to see their husbands dressed like a nun while attending to a lady - Pope in Rome? If more women do not want this, the idea of marginalization is thoughtless.

advanceDNA:
u are a educated for fvck sake....why the heck are u talking without examples ..u are just screaming marginalization...where is the data..
in advanced counries women dont collect full pay when they go on maternity leave if thyeve not worked for more 600hours...

here, they will take maternity and annual.. amd get their full pay as men...
which company pays swomen less for the same role in nigeria..
which school prevent women from addmission..
which parastatal or agency did government say women cant head....

show me how women are deliberately significantly marginalized in 2021 that men dont have a fair share..

u talked about jobs like carpentry, plumbing...i told u women dont want to be represented in all these jobs, in fact if you offer them those jobs, they will call it an insult...they are on this forum as them if they want to be plumbers and carpenters..
.its about power, power they dont want to contest or compete for....if you cant see that......then u are just an ordinary cry baby like them

My friend forget all these retail stuff. The system itself, societal structure itself, is unfair to women (including traditions, customs, culture, expectations, conditioning, etc - which were of course set by the dominant sex).
You may start the reformation by giving the female child EXACTLY the same rights as the male child in her father's house including the right to propagate her surname (like have all or some of her children bear her last name) - which is basically the only reason Nigerian parents prefer a male. After that you move to her children being equally hers as her husband's; then you move to her husband not having any right to ask her to move out of "his house", etc
And why are most OB/GNY men?? What's your answer to that? They are not "wired" for nursing but they are wired to go into a woman's thing!

Godoverevery:
She wanted to have a post alot of people are eyeing so definitely some will try to demoralising her......Men face that everytime.

Everything is fair in war.....just because she decided to dwell on negative comments and let it affect her is her own fault solely.

Marginalisation would have been if she wasn't eligible to contest or vote.

But it isn't war is it?

The entire point is that there are additional barriers that are based on gender in order to access opportunities.

Let's leave conjecture aside and stick to the facts. She was told she couldn't throw her hat in the ring because they didn't want her gender.

That was the starting point. Meanwhile the other men didn't have to face that particular obstacle just to contest. No doubt there will be obstacles during the actual race. But in her case, to contest, she had to face one more, than the rest of her male competitors.

That extra one, is the marginalisation.

FreeIgboho:
That's exactly part of the societal structure that needs reforming: bride prices. How does it benefit the woman, how is it fair to her, and how is it her fault? The whole thing needs reforming. The system is not fair-

Is not her fault but she isn't doing anything to change it.

She constantly asking her man when are you going to pay my bride price.

How many ladies have come out to speak against bride price?? Or they are waiting for us to speak for them and tag us broke ass.