Everyone is striving to be great In the society,so why all these rubbish talk about a gender being marginalised?Tell me are the men more favoured as well?
we have great women occupying great positions in the world today

Am tired of hearing all these shit...

Justbehave:
So how does all these female actors buy expensive cars and build mansions? While the men can't even pay their bills.

Ask that person if it's the males fault, who God don bless he don Bless

Please do you know how I managed to reach where I am right now?[center][/center]

BRATISLAVA:


Conduct an interview and stop making assumptions. Even the way most of you comment here, looking down on opinions of women is a sure sign that you don't want women to speak or be heard or seen. You would prefer yourselves instead.

Anyway, do the interview on hardworking women who achieve their dreams and goals. Ask them how they got there, if there was any marginalization, etc.

benqo01:


Ask that person if it's the males fault, who God don bless he don Bless

Lol. True and the men are not complaining

Now is that not male marginalisation?

Cousin9999:


There's many explanations for that. Here's a few:

1. Parents think that despite sexism, males are dūmb and easily manipulated and would rather invest in the girl.

2. Society is so sexist that many girls feel it's education or pure suffering, so they work harder than any man.

3. Parents know a male can fail upwards because of sexism, but women don't have that luxury.

It's all in their head. The marginalisation.

If any gender is marginalised or cheated,it is the male gender.i will give example

1)in the family when a father doesn't have sufficient money to train his children,the males will be pushed to do boy boy that is apprenticeship but the females are sent to school with the limited funds

2 In University eg UNN 90% of the hostel accommodation is allocated to females with good toilet end only 10% of the hostels are left for males with terrible toilet end with many males homeless
3)In the sell of political form for expression of interest the males will be charged 20million while the females will be charged 5 million
4)In social gatherings,the males are expected to stand up for the females to sit down in the name of "ladies first"but when danger appear it will be "men first".who is being marginalised?
5)when it comes to carrying heavy objects,the females will dodge and expect the males to die carrying it.
6)in the public,a female will first beat or slap a man,when the man retaliates,he will be called a woman beater and people will side the females and sympathize with her.
The list is endless and yet the females always play the victim card.what a world of injustice against the male child.

FreeIgboho:


What do you mean exactly your point? I am telling you that same way SOME women do bad things despite societal expectations, same way SOME women rise to the top despite societal conditioning and expectations. Most women don't fall into those categories and they take unique set of circumstances and persons

Oga you're just making excuses for mediocrity...

You think the society doesn't have expectations on the males?? And who makes up the society by the way?? Is it not male and female?? And why would you allow societal expectations define your life?? The path to success is accessible to both males and females...

Yes people look down on females in certain careers but just because people look down on them doesn't mean they should give up...

The females who went on to achieve greatness do they have two heads?? Some of them even came from very poor homes, yet they went on to do great things, why?? Because they kept pushing!!!!

Greatness is not tied to a particular sex, if you work towards greatness, you'll get there as long as you don't give up...

Lots of females are not successful, not because of marginalization, but because they lack the tenacity to perservere...

pansophist:


Rubbish. Total, arrant, rubbish.

Using your logic, Nigeria is 50% men, how many women are electric pole climbers, shit packers, truck drivers, thief catchers, bricklayers, panel beaters, cow killers and more ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WfRuRQew64


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQzoy5sBw1w


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po3OdPvqhDk

Btw Nigerian women are 16.3% of construction jobs. And Nigerian women are 70-80% percent of the labor in small holder farms.

PrimadonnaO:


They are part of Nigeria, but a specific issue seems to relate more to them, does it then reflect the reality of the entire country?

I disagree that female marginalization only occurs in the north. So I’m not entertaining the notion that it’s peculiar to them. And even if it were true, their population is enough to make it an issue for anyone to be concerned about

Kindly explain what having no real place among the men of my household means, and the implications.

So we assuming you’re igbo.
In igbo land, as a woman you are not entitled to inheritance that’s passed down from father to father. Their justification is that women are supposed to marry out of the household therefore do not have a permanent place in the compound.

What’s the implications?

1) Wealth disparity. Land ownership is wealth. From birth you’re already disenfranchised and wealth gap is already created between you and your brothers.

2) you either struggle to get yours or hope that you marry someone who has it. Which is another reason why marriage for women is such a big deal amongst them.

Does this qualify as an issue or not?
Are the women who talk about this irresponsible for their own lives. Just enjoying whining for the sake of it?

Favfables:
Yes people look down on females in certain careers but just because people look down on them doesn't mean they should give up

Would you keep doing a job if a male sexually assaulted you or demanded intercourse to keep your job? What about if they constantly undermined you, stole your ideas, prevented your promotion, slandered you, and any other way they could think of to sabotage you? Oh and btw, what if your peers, friends, and family constantly attacked your manhood and capability for simply choosing to work?

CSTR2:

Sorry.

Senior production engineer.

https://www.linkedin.com/mwlite/in/ifeyinwanduka

Yeah exactly,
Cos I kinda know a thing or 2 about that place and share some kind of interest.

I don’t think you are clear on what personalization means here.

But Who are referring to as having no responsibility for their own lives?
You were generalizing towards the women who talk about this. So I’m asking before you make judgmental and shaming post to reflect and consider who you might be thinking of as having no responsibility for themselves.
Most Nigerian feminists are popular. I mentioned Ini because she’s come up in conversation on this thread. So maybe I’m wrong and she’s not a feminist. At least we are sure Chimamanda is. Would you consider her as having no responsibility for her own self?

As a matter of fact I rephrased the question to address all the female posters here not just you. To state which feminist they believe are lazy or have no personal responsibility because they talk about marginalization.

Some of you instead of addressing the issue like you said we should, resort to shaming by calling others entitled, lazy or whiners. Don’t have a victim complex now that I’m pointing it out. I’m not making it about you specifically.

Remember we don’t like victim complexes around here.

I’ll answer the bolder question in another post

PrimadonnaO:

I don't believe I've had a personal conversation with you on this matter.

I'm trying to understand why you're personalising it.

Why are you asking me if I have more personal responsibility for my life than Ini Edo does?

Why have you framed the emboldened as though it were a thing I said? It doesn't buttress the point, because you can't know if that's the perspective I view this matter from.


You also can't say I don't have better initiative or more personal accountability than the outspoken women who chose to talk about the issue, because you don't know this.

And very importantly, the original discourse is in no way a comparison. The affirmations and comparisons you're making, where do they stem from?


You've chosen to personalise a very general discourse, and the message is lost on me.

Are we talking about me versus a certain group of people now?

I thought the discussion was simply about not generally understanding the crux of the matter when women say they're marginalised.

That's what I would love to know.

How are women marginalised today ?

Ajiboye592:
funny U
Y d landlord naa

cos his landlord was stupid to give someone like him a house

Cousin9999:


Would you keep doing a job if a male sexually assaulted you or demanded intercourse to keep your job? What about if they constantly undermined you, stole your ideas, prevented your promotion, slandered you, and any other way they could think of to sabotage you? Oh and btw, what if your peers, friends, and family constantly attacked your manhood and capability for simply choosing to work?

So are you saying that EVERY WOMAN out there is been forced to have sex to keep their jobs

Are you saying that men are not being undermined??

Are you saying that a man's idea has never been stolen??

Are you saying that men have never been slandered??

Are you saying that men have never been sabotaged??

Oga, like I said...
You're making excuses for mediocrity!!!

Yes women face challenges out there, but men also face challenges too, yet they keep pushing till they get there, why can't women do the same too??

Favfables:


So are you saying that EVERY WOMAN out there is been forced to have sex to keep their jobs

Are you saying that men are not being undermined??

Are you saying that a man's idea has never been stolen??

Are you saying that men have never been slandered??

Are you saying that men have never been sabotaged??

Oga, like I said...
You're making excuses for mediocrity!!!

Yes women face challenges out there, but men also face challenges too, yet they keep pushing till they get there, why can't women do the same too??

LOL My guy, if being obtuse was an Olympic event, you would get the gold! smh

cococandy:

I disagree that female marginalization only occurs in the north. So I’m not entertaining the notion that it’s peculiar to them. And even if it were true, their population is enough to make it an issue for anyone to be concerned about

Good. And I still maintain my opinion that if the north is the primary reference point for marginalisation in Nigeria, then the narrative needs to be rephrased appropriately, because to speak of it as though it were a widespread phenomenon would be counterintuitive. The people who need help will not receive help. People who can be more will get buried under the fallacy that they are marginalised.




So we assuming you’re igbo.
In igbo land, as a woman you are not entitled to inheritance that’s passed down from father to father. Their justification is that women are supposed to marry out of the household therefore do not have a permanent place in the compound.

What’s the implications?

1) Wealth disparity. Land ownership is wealth. From birth you’re already disenfranchised and wealth gap is already created between you and your brothers.

2) you either struggle to get yours or hope that you marry someone who has it. Which is another reason why marriage for women is such a big deal amongst them.

Does this qualify as an issue or not?
Are the women who talk about this irresponsible for their own lives. Just enjoying whining for the sake of it?

Do you first of all agree that the tradition you cited up there isn't the case with every family?


And for women who were denied of inheritance, is that honestly a good reference point for justifying that women are marginalised?

A woman cannot go on to acquire wealth for herself simply because she wasn't bequeathed wealth?

Aren't there more men and women who started their lives from scratch?

Does a woman not having an inheritance from her family mean she also doesn't have access to a plethora of other opportunities?

The point is an issue that should be addressed, quite alright. But if we're being objective, it's not a solid reference to marginalisation.

Are there others please?

Cousin9999:


LOL My guy, if being obtuse was an Olympic event, you would get the gold! smh

So because you can't objectively state your points you resort to insults and name calling....

I thought you were better than this, I guess I was wrong

Do have a nice life...

PrimadonnaO:

How are women marginalised today?

Let me preface by saying that I already know that it doesn’t matter what response I give, you’re convinced I’m wrong so why bother?.

Also that anecdotal evidence isn’t really evidence because I can say a million things that happened to me that qualifies as marginalization but you could be like “well that didn’t happen to me so it must not be an issue” (just like you think it’s not an issue because it only happens in the north) and I’d have no choice but to be like “oh well”.

I have an example of marginalization for you. In my final year of school I wanted to run for president of my department but was told point blank that only the guys would be put on the ballot for president while the ladies would be on the ballot for Vice President. It was a small department.
Tight knit guys. Organizers in bed with each other.
So of course I didn’t run or even agree to be up for the vice presidency because I was already discouraged.

Now before you ask “why didn’t you stand up for yourself? Why didn’t you take it up with student council? Why didn’t you do this or that?”

My first question is why did gender matter in that election if female marginalization no longer exists like you want me to believe?
Why was being male a benefit to the guys who wanted to run and me being female a deterrent to me?

There may be a law in place to explicitly tell people not to discriminate against women But as far as a majority of people (including women) have biases against women, then marginalization is going to be a thing. It’s not something that will totally go away with legislation but rather with awareness.

Hence the whining and so called victim complex and display of personal irresponsibility including future phrases that will be coined for it.

advanceDNA:


I am not talking about Nigeria alone.. and u are the one lying cos u don't have statistics to back your erronous claim that there are equal men and women in nursing..

There are more female nurses than male everywhere in the world..united state has the highest..and it just grew to a mere 12% recently, according to the bereau of labour statistics....just as there are more male in engineering than women...
u think women don't study engineering...they eventually leave and end up doing other things...

The equality of opportunity is fine...that's acheivable... But U can't force out individual or group outcome...that's a fact ....

If u like seff...prevent men from contesting for the next election... The love women have for family will prevent many of them from remaining in politics for long...how many women have risk apetite like tinubu, like ffk, like fayose, oshiomole...

Women will tell u men marginalize them ..but the good heart and caring soul they are wired with more than men is mostly why they won't leave family and chase career full speed..

Give a man a 1.5million naira manager job in maidugurii and he will not think twice before leaving his family... Give a woman the same job and she will remember her kids first cos she won't even want to leave her kids with anyone ...not even her husband..

In some SOCIETIES there are almost equal number men and women doctotos and nurses. Why would OBG/YN doctors be mostly men??
But the question is marginalization. If men and women were two different tribes in Nigeria, it will be obvious to anybody that one tribe is marginalized

angelfallz:
There is no need going back and forth with you. I gave you a list names you claimed they're the exceptions. Now you want more names?
Guy go and Google it.
The fact is nothing is stopping any hard-working woman from achieving her dreams and goals in Nigeria, the same applies to a man.
Stop carry victim hood mentality. It would not take you anywhere.

You are beating about the bush. The question is marginalization. If men and women were two different tribes in Nigeria, will there be any question that one tribe is marginalized?

advanceDNA:
Give a man a 1.5million naira manager job in maidugurii and he will not think twice before leaving his family... Give a woman the same job and she will remember her kids first cos she won't even want to leave her kids with anyone ...not even her husband..

Now you know that's not true. The amount of women that go to a whole other country to work and send money home...

cococandy:


Let me preface by saying that I already know that it doesn’t matter what response I give, you’re convinced I’m wrong so why bother?.

Also that anecdotal evidence isn’t really evidence because I can say a million things that happened to me that qualifies as marginalization but you could be like “well that didn’t happen to me so it must not be an issue” (just like you think it’s not an issue because it only happens in the north) and I’d have no choice but to be like “oh well”.

I have an example of marginalization for you. In my final year of school I wanted to run for president of my department but was told point blank that only the guys would be put on the ballot for president while the ladies would be on the ballot for Vice President. It was a small department.
Tight knit guys. Organizers in bed with each other.
So of course I didn’t run or even agree to be up for the vice presidency because I was already discouraged.

Now before you ask “why didn’t you stand up for yourself? Why didn’t you take it up with student council? Why didn’t you do this or that?”

My first question is why did gender matter in that election if female marginalization no longer exists like you want me to believe?
Why was being male a benefit to the guys who wanted to run and me being female a deterrent to me?

There may be a law in place to explicitly tell people not to discriminate against women But as far as a majority of people (including women) have biases against women, then marginalization is going to be a thing. It’s not something that will totally go away with legislation but rather with awareness.

Hence the whining and so called victim complex and display of personal irresponsibility including future phrases that will be coined for it.

Okay, first of all, I'm not fixated on anything.

Interestingly, I really want to know what the issues around women marginalisation are today, because when I look around, I don't see them.

And yes, personal experiences lend credibility because it gives context to the matter.

So back to your experience.

It's a good thing you knew that the there was no law enshrined that prevented a female from vying for the office of president.

And yes, it is true that some things won't be easy. If you very much wanted the office, you could have pressed on.

In your case, the roadblock was that the "cabal" wanted only male for that position.

But their preference may have also varied across other lines. Another male would have had challenges if perhaps he wasn't loyal to the cabal...
If he wasn't from a tribe they preferred...
If he wasn't from a department they wanted...
If his ideologies didn't favour the cabal...

So many roadblocks people experience at different phases of life.
What matters most is that it is contestable and you could have pressed on regardless...

This would have been a stronger case if you had taken it to the authorities and they re-echoed that the position wasn't open to ladies.

Favfables:


Oga you're just making excuses for mediocrity...

You think the society doesn't have expectations on the males?? And who makes up the society by the way?? Is it not male and female?? And why would you allow societal expectations define your life?? The path to success is accessible to both males and females...

Yes people look down on females in certain careers but just because people look down on them doesn't mean they should give up...

The females who went on to achieve greatness do they have two heads?? Some of them even came from very poor homes, yet they went on to do great things, why?? Because they kept pushing!!!!

Greatness is not tied to a particular sex, if you work towards greatness, you'll get there as long as you don't give up...

Lots of females are not successful, not because of marginalization, but because they lack the tenacity to perservere...

Oga you are beating about the bush. The question is marginalization. If men and women were two different tribes in Nigeria, will there be any question that one tribe is marginalized?? Do you have to look very hard to see it?

PrimadonnaO:


Do you first of all agree that the tradition you cited up there isn't the case with every family?

Does something have to happen in every single household before it becomes an issue? If it happens in statistically significant enough numbers, then it’s an issue.

And for women who were denied of inheritance, is that honestly a good reference point for justifying that women are marginalised?

I’m sorry how bad does it have to be to be considered a good example?

A woman cannot go on to acquire wealth for herself simply because she wasn't bequeathed wealth?
Aren't there more men and women who started their lives from scratch? Does a woman not having an inheritance from her family mean she also doesn't have access to a plethora of other opportunities?

The point is an issue that should be addressed, quite alright. But if we're being objective, it's not a solid reference to marginalisation.

She absolutely can. And I encourage all women to do so. However, why does she have start behind her brothers? Why does she have to experience that specific difficultly just for being a woman? Do you not see how you’re making my point? Something that’s that big of an issue, you want to make the women out to be irresponsible for speaking about it.

Where in the discourse of marginalization has any reasonable person asked a woman to not pursue her goals or seek better for herself simply because there are obstacles in her way? Absolutely no one does that. If anything we tell them to do it anyway despite any obstacles.

The question being why should those obstacles exist just because of gender and y’all have issues with us asking

Are there others please?

You want more examples so you can tell me it doesn’t matter because it only happens in another place not close to you?

So marginalization due to gender does happen?
Regardless of whether I chose to press on and fight them or give up right?
It happened and does happen. And that’s the issue.

It shouldn’t be happening.

And y’all need to stop gaslighting people who speak about it as if they are not seeing what their eyes are seeing.

PrimadonnaO:


Okay, first of all, I'm not fixated on anything.

Interestingly, I really want to know what the issues around women marginalisation are today, because when I look around, I don't see them.

And yes, personal experiences lend credibility because it gives context to the matter.

So back to your experience.

It's a good thing you knew that the there was no law enshrined that prevented a female from vying for the office of president.

And yes, it is true that some things won't be easy. If you very much wanted the office, you could have pressed on.

In your case, the roadblock was that the "cabal" wanted only male for that position.

But their preference may have also varied across other lines. Another male would have had challenges if perhaps he wasn't loyal to the cabal...
If he wasn't from a tribe they preferred...
If he wasn't from a department they wanted...
If his ideologies didn't favour the cabal...

So many roadblocks people experience at different phases of life.
What matters most is that it is contestable and you could have pressed on regardless...

This would have been a stronger case if you had taken it to the authorities and they reechoed that the position wasn't open to ladies.

Owen247:
Who is closer to a patient

So? Men can and do do patient care just as good as women. If it were by nature of job, the OBG/YN goes right into a woman's private part. Why are most of them men??

1. An unlucky man.

He is NOT marginalized because the society is fair to him and has provided everything for him to succeed.

Some might even say he lacks initiative to do more with his life.

His present situation is mostly his fault.

2. A marginalized woman.

She could have been so much more, but society has held her back and placed obstacles in her way.

She probably has a very unsupportive husband/partner also – and he is a misogynist for allowing her carry their baby while hawking her goods.

Her situation in life is NOT her fault, men have definitely caused it.

Ask anyone reading this thread to question themselves what they would think if a woman rose up today to run for president.

Would they think “oh here’s a human being running for office. Let me see if they are qualified and I’ll vote or not vote”.

Or will they think “a woman is running for office. Women are emotional, illogical, irrational bla bla bla, so I’ll be voting for the man”
Thereby excluding a whole group of people based on social conditioning. But they’ll tell you because there’s no specific law that powers their actions, then those women are facing no barriers.

This shouldn’t even be a conversation.
Especially not in our dear Nigeria.
Places that rank higher on gender equality still recognize they have issues with inequality much less our country.

BRATISLAVA:


You would think only men are Keen on trivializing women matters. This is like some women trivializing labor pains, because they never went through it. Just as all men would claim it is women playing victim.
It doesn't invalidate the experiences of those who are also mother's but went through it. It doesn't mean they are lazy or incapable of childbirth, too.

Some women forget that it is men who created those experiences for other women, and that they have never come across it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. This is like saying fgm is untrue and victim playing.

Working with men sometimes means you don't get real opportunities even when you're clearly fit and more intelligent than they are. That certain women don't experience that is fine, but to say those who have met it a lot are not in control of their lives is pushing it far. Sometimes it's only if your parents can give you that post that you will have it, otherwise men out there wouldn't let it happen for sentimental gender reasons.

cococandy:
I don’t think you are clear on what personalization means here.

But Who are referring to as having no responsibility for their own lives?
You were generalizing towards the women who talk about this. So I’m asking before you make judgmental and shaming post to reflect and consider who you might be thinking of as having no responsibility for themselves.
Most Nigerian feminists are popular. I mentioned Ini because she’s come up in conversation on this thread. So maybe I’m wrong and she’s not a feminist. At least we are sure Chimamanda is. Would you consider her as having no responsibility for her own self?

As a matter of fact I rephrased the question to address all the female posters here not just you. To state which feminist they believe are lazy or have no personal responsibility because they talk about marginalization.

Some of you instead of addressing the issue like you said we should, resort to shaming by calling others entitled, lazy or whiners. Don’t have a victim complex now that I’m pointing it out. I’m not making it about you specifically.

Remember we don’t like victim complexes around here.

I’ll answer the bolder question in another post

You were making it about me.

Rathr than addressing the issue, you were dapting the discourse to me. That's what I meant by personalising. I was refraining myself from stating you were committing an argumentum ad hominem.

Since you were quoting me, you should have stuck to the things I was talking about.

There were a lot of assumptions in your earlier response.

I made no mention of Ini, no mention of feminists... nothing that suggested I was shaming women who spoke about women marginalisation.

I really don't like having discussions about feminism and feminists, because it confuses me.

I'm still wondering how feminists, Ini Edo, Chimamanda and co got into this discourse.

You're asking me if Chimamanda has no personal responsibility for her own self. That's not for me to say.

Does Chimamanda speak about being personally marginalized?

Women who say they're marginalised should speak of their own personal experiences, then we can lump it all together and know what we're really dealing with.

Women who are speaking up for others, should likewise, state specifically the ways in which the women they canvass for have been marginalized.

Only then can we truly see and know if there's much substance to the matter.

Once again, I'm going on about this because I don't know and I want to know.

I'm a woman and I don't really seem to see how I've been marginalized.

Will I say I'm not marginalized if I'm truly marginalized?

I want to know the experiences other women have had.

cococandy:


They are part of Nigeria. So why should it be seen as sectional.

And it’s funny that we would want to section them out as if they are the only ones with issues. When for example if you’re igbo, you have no real place among the men of your household. Is that marginalization or not?

I wonder how many times I will tell you that the greedy norm of the males in your family isn't an Igbo culture and is not a standard for the bona fide Igbos. The idea of any self-acclaimed Igbo person without a worthy surname always trying hard to tarnish the image of worthy Igbos isn't acceptable. In fact, I won't be surprised to know that in that same family of yours, regardless of how greedy you've always made the world to believe that they're, it's only the contentious and contemptuous women - who've likely been ostracized - that they usually deny a real place in the family household.