Bro this and your surgeon analogy doesn’t make sense one bit at all, I don’t see the relation. Computer Science is an image space, there’s a push for more female developers in Nigeria, look at accelerators, incubators, grants, foundations. It’s just logical that there would be more female focused roles. Perhaps not as cynical as Tensa put it, but honestly if you can’t see it then it’s all good, I’m just saying I have experience with this and female ‘developers’ don’t find it hard getting a ‘tech’ job in Nigeria. Do you have experience to say otherwise ?

It appears inclusion is misconstrued as favoring women in tech. Women are qualified for those roles.

The guy who said he was interning and the two CS grads took over more prominent roles, would you have the same objections if it were males with connections under the same circumstances?

How do you know if recruitment would've screened men differently? Are you part of the recruitment team and have some unique insights for us?

I asked how recruitment waters down things for women and got no response. I was hoping we could all learn something new. Rather than a response, there are more posts claiming things that sound more like personal opinions than fact. Have any of you interviewed women in tech to know what their competency and recruitment scrutiny was like in relation to their roles? No response?

It defies logic for a company to hire two unproductive staff who do fairly important work, because they are females.

Anyway, the testosterone in here is stifling.

BRATISLAVA:
It appears inclusion is misconstrued as favoring women in tech. Women are qualified for those roles.

The guy who said he was interning and the two CS grads took over more prominent roles, would you have the same objections if it were males with connections under the same circumstances?

How do you know if recruitment would've screened men differently? Are you part of the recruitment team and have some unique insights for us?

I asked how recruitment waters down things for women and got no response. I was hoping we could all learn something new. Rather than a response, there are more posts claiming things that sound more like personal opinions than fact. Have any of you interviewed women in tech to know what their competencies and recruitment scrutiny was like in relation to their roles?

It defies logic for a company to hire two unproductive staff who do fairly important work, because they are females.

Anyway, the testosterone in here is stifling.

If you missed it the point I made and agreed to is that if you had equally qualified people, the female has more chances of being chosen. And for developer relation type roles females are generally chosen.
Plus nowhere did I imply unqualified or unproductive. I didn’t even say more prominent when talking about the job positions. Nowhere did I imply a negative connotation. Honestly, if I was in the same position I would employ a female.
Also I don’t need to be in recruitment, what’s your logic ? these are people I worked with, first hand experience not opinions, facts. Also did you miss where I talked about representation and images and all ..
Honestly chillax this isn’t a heated conversation, I guess it’s just my observations ...

And if your gripe is that I’m agreeing with the other guy. I agree with the the gist but I mentioned it’s not as cynical as he’s made it out to be. Honestly as a female, it’s just a call that if you put the effort in you’ll find it easier in tech than in most other industries in Nigeria.

monikulapo:


If you missed it the point I made and agreed to is that if you had equally qualified people, the female would be chosen. And for developer relation type roles females are generally chosen.
Plus nowhere did I imply unqualified or unproductive. I didn’t even say more prominent when talking about the job positions. Nowhere did I paint the topic in a negative light. Honestly, if I was in the same position I would employ a female.
Also I don’t need to be in recruitment, what’s your logic ? these are people I worked with, first hand experience not opinions, facts.
Honestly chillax this isn’t a heated conversation, I guess it’s just my observations ...

It isn't a heated conversation.

I stated that it was all about learning from my first post here, today.

With further passionate submissions it's clear why women stay away from tech. Not because it's difficult. Rather because it's a boys club in which women will always be seen as given undue advantage because of technically anything eg. a voice, inclusion. Who wants to be seen as substandard constantly trying to prove themselves?

It isn't easier for any gender. Everyone puts in the effort. The best person gets the job.

Let's leave it at that.

monikulapo:
And if your gripe is that I’m agreeing with the other guy. I agree with the the gist but I mentioned it’s not as cynical as he’s made it out to be. Honestly as a female, it’s just a call that if you put the effort in you’ll find it easier in tech than in most other industries in Nigeria.

There's no gripe.

You are free to agree with what resonates with you. I agree with him on certain things. I welcome the differing opinion but would have liked to learn more than the emotional submissions my post prompted.

And yes, I was hoping for recruitment to tell us more.

monikulapo:
Bro this and your surgeon analogy doesn’t make sense one bit at all, I don’t see the parallels. Computer Science is an image space, there’s a push for more female developers in Nigeria, look at accelerators, incubators, grants, foundations. It’s just logical that there would be more female focused roles. Perhaps not as cynical as Tensa put it, but honestly if you can’t see it then it’s all good, I’m just saying I have experience with this and female ‘developers’ don’t find it hard getting a ‘tech’ job in Nigeria. Do you have experience to say otherwise ?

Well for one, developers and surgeons are highly skilled positions that have nothing to do with gender. You are either good at it or you aren't. Also surgery is a heavily populated by males. Secondly, I don't get how CS is an "image space". Does anyone tech user care if the software they use was developed by a male? Or female? Granted some businesses will like to "flaunt" the perception that they are an all female team. But the same can be said for a hospital that would like to say their elite surgeons are all females.

Have I had experience with recruiting developers whether male or female? So let me just say I have deployed a number of Applicant Tracking Solutions. And on at least 80% of them, I have had the business request that a filter be set up that filters out any CV that incudes items like gender, date of birth, place of birth, state of origin etc.

I would let you know right from the jump that your assumptions might not be right. Tech is actually pretty inclusive moreso in Nigeria. And there’s no ‘boys club’, ‘undue advantage’ whatever that implies ... I don’t think that’s a problem in the tech space.

Actually are you in Tech, you would not be able to relate if you aren’t actually.

airsaylongcome:


Well for one, developers and surgeons are highly skilled positions that have nothing to do with gender. You are either good at it or you aren't. Also surgery is a heavily populated by males. Secondly, I don't get how CS is an "image space". Does anyone tech user care if the software they use was developed by a male? Or female? Granted some businesses will like to "flaunt" the perception that they are an all female team. But the same can be said for a hospital that would like to say their elite surgeons are all females.

Have I had experience with recruiting developers whether male or female? So let me just say I have deployed a number of Applicant Tracking Solutions. And on at least 80% of them, I have had the business request that a filter be set up that filters out any CV that incudes items like gender, date of birth, place of birth, state of origin etc.

It’s fine bro, why I said I don’t see the parallels is that in one field there’s active push for female participants (software companies do major PR to appear female friendly look at the PR when there’s a female C level hire or a female founded firm) in the other there’s no active push, also the health industry is old, established and regulated, you need a licence to practise, the scrutiny in the tech industry isn’t quite the same. I could go on and on, but hope you get the drift ?
And if you followed my spiel, I was talking about the Nigerian space and how decisions when making the final decision are influenced by the various policies in place.

monikulapo:


It’s fine bro, why I said I don’t see the parallels is that in one field there’s active push for female participants (software companies do major PR to appear female friendly look at the PR when there’s a female C level hire or a female founded firm) in the other there’s no active push, also the health industry is old, established and regulated, you need a licence to practise, the scrutiny in the tech industry isn’t quite the same. I could go on and on, but hope you get the drift ?
And if you followed my spiel, I was talking about the Nigerian space and how decisions when making the final decision are influenced by the various policies in place.

I get the "Nigerian factor" angle where voyeuristic men want to prey on vulnerable females. Happens in all industry, tech or not. And nah I'm not offended or griped. It was supposed to be logical exchange of ideas and experiences which I'm glad I had

BRATISLAVA:


There's no gripe.

You are free to agree with what resonates with you. I agree with him on certain things. I welcome the differing opinion but would have liked to learn more than the emotional submissions my post prompted.

And yes, I was hoping for recruitment to tell us more.

Your adjectives are interesting, interesting coz I was the one that diffused the situation

I didn’t think I had to explain but I don’t need to know the yardstick for recruitment if they’re my colleagues, I’m a labourer I don’t need to know what the recruiter asked if they employ another labourer, I would know their skill level and the average expectations in the position. Replace labourer with any other related position.

airsaylongcome:


I get the "Nigerian factor" angle where voyeuristic men want to prey on vulnerable females. Happens in all industry, tech or not. And nah I'm not offended or griped. It was supposed to be logical exchange of ideas and experiences which I'm glad I had

Bro not about that o. Did you miss all the policies I mentioned or aren’t you active in the Nigerian tech scene .... most things are female focused so it’s logical recruitment would be. Jeez. And even those things you alluded to .. compared to other industries in Nigeria I would bet it’s less prominent in the tech space ..

monikulapo:


Your adjectives are interesting, interesting coz I was the one that diffused the situation

I didn’t think I had to explain but I don’t need to know the yardstick for recruitment if they’re my colleagues, I’m a labourer I don’t need to know what the recruiter asked if they employ another labourer, I would know their skill level and the average expectations in the position. Replace labourer with any other related position.

In essence, you're still saying that you aren't recruitment.

BRATISLAVA:


In essence, you're still saying that you aren't recruitment.

It’s either you want to fight or you want to take me out to lunch so I can explain better.
But in a decent tech company recruitment is primarily done/scrutinized by experienced developers - they make time to interview you, test for soft skills, recommend you to the HR. They’re the ones who know what they need. So if I have say on a project I would be on the recruitment team. So if you’re trying to imply that am I HR, heck no I am not HR but that doesn’t really apply to the industry we are talking about.

monikulapo:

It’s either you want to fight or you want to take me out to lunch so I can explain better.
But in a decent tech company recruitment is primarily done/scrutinized by experienced developers - they make time to interview you, test for soft skills, recommend you to the HR. They’re the ones who know what they need. So if I have say on a project I would be on the recruitment team. So if you’re trying to imply that am I HR, heck no I am not HR but that doesn’t really apply to the industry we are talking about.

Why are you mansplaining, though?

BRATIS LAVA:


If inclusion is what you call easier...

However, tell us how watered down recruitment tests are, please. Is it that the tests for men and women are determinedly different? Like if a role has specific requirements, they will water it down and hire an incompetent person because it's a female? Or is she actually competent?

We're all here to learn.

BRATISLAVA:


In essence, you're still saying that you aren't recruitment.

This statement of yours does show that you are not trying to learn like you claim, you are trying to find faults and argue with someone already working in the industry. If you are not satisfied with what he said, you can do your research

monikulapo:

It’s either you want to fight or you want to take me out to lunch so I can explain better.
But in a decent tech company recruitment is primarily done/scrutinized by experienced developers - they make time to interview you, test for soft skills, recommend you to the HR. They’re the ones who know what they need. So if I have say on a project I would be on the recruitment team. So if you’re trying to imply that am I HR, heck no I am not HR but that doesn’t really apply to the industry we are talking about.

There is no need

Thank you, i will look into it

Thank you for the reply boss. Self study is not my thing tbh. I have been looking for an ict center for data analysis i don't know if you can recommend any

Lasisieniola77:
Thank you for the reply boss. Self study is not my thing tbh. I have been looking for an ict center for data analysis i don't know if you can recommend any

HI!

I like ur sauce.

genaro2000:

This statement of yours does show that you are not trying to learn like you claim, you are trying to find faults and argue with someone already working in the industry. If you are not satisfied with what he said, you can do your research

If you aren't recruitment, how do you know the criteria used in employing females? It's not an argument, but a search for the truth.

This area is full of too much myth and very much personal sentiment. Someone (factually) mentioned he deals with ATS, and gender is one of the things excluded from the selection process to keep it fair.

So how is it then stated as fact that females are employed through watered down processes, while males have full scrutiny? Is that how recruitment works? Is tech divided into male and female tasks? Or is inclusion the watering down?

If you have answers, feel free to let us know. As I said, this is all about learning.

BRATISLAVA:


If you aren't recruitment, how do you know the criteria used in employing females? It's not an argument, but a search for the truth.

This area is full of too much myth and very much personal sentiment. Someone (factually) mentioned he deals with ATS, and gender is one of the things excluded from the selection process to keep it fair.

So how is it then stated as fact that females are employed through watered down processes, while males have full scrutiny? Is that how recruitment works? Is tech divided into male and female tasks? Or is inclusion the watering down?

If you have answers, feel free to let us know. As I said, this is all about learning.

K

airsaylongcome:


Spread your tentacles. Reddit is an option (my preferred option) for contract employment rather than upwork

How exactly do you source for jobs off of Reddit

Do you have any to recommend

BRATISLAVA:


If you aren't recruitment, how do you know the criteria used in employing females? It's not an argument, but a search for the truth.

This area is full of too much myth and very much personal sentiment. Someone (factually) mentioned he deals with ATS, and gender is one of the things excluded from the selection process to keep it fair.

So how is it then stated as fact that females are employed through watered down processes, while males have full scrutiny? Is that how recruitment works? Is tech divided into male and female tasks? Or is inclusion the watering down?

If you have answers, feel free to let us know. As I said, this is all about learning.

Do you work in tech or you just want to argue for the fun of it. Females are treated preferentially in tech and I've experienced it twice this year. I'm in a closed tech group, the seniors are always willing to take in females under their tutelage, junior guys are left to find their path. Few weeks ago, a senior DevOps engineer in our network specifically requested for a female for immediate employment, a female acquaintance applied and she got in notwithstanding the fact that she had minimal DevOps experience.

@frank417 also have a look here

plat0:
Do you work in tech or you just want to argue for the fun of it. Females are treated preferentially in tech and I've experienced it twice this year. I'm in a closed tech group, the seniors are always willing to take in females under their tutelage, junior guys are left to find their path. Few weeks ago, a senior DevOps engineer in our network specifically requested for a female for immediate employment, a female acquaintance applied and she got in notwithstanding the fact that she had minimal DevOps experience.

I'm not interested in furthering these comments on the thread.

You all sound like inclusion is preferential treatment. If an inexperienced man were selected, would you think the same way?

If you were qualified and in an organization full of whites, you wouldn't call it preferential treatment if their inclusion policy involves promoting qualified blacks. Guess they would've watered down their standards by employing you in the first place, because you're black and don't fit.

I have a lot of instances to debunk your claims, but evidently this is a men's thread and nothing else goes. The questions are still unanswered.

Certainly women can't know anything and are preferentially treated in tech as a rule of thumb.

And they said chivalry was dead.

Totally agree with a lot of your points Bratislava. I was talking with someone over the weekend. Nigerian male based in Edinburgh. And short of calling him a dummy, his colleagues see him as just being a beneficiary of pro-black employment. Affirmative action as the Americans call it. This is someone that is supremely good o. He has to everyday "fight" to prove his worth

airsaylongcome:
Totally agree with a lot of your points Bratislava. I was talking with someone over the weekend. Nigerian male based in Edinburgh. And short of calling him a dummy, his colleagues see him as just being a beneficiary of pro-black employment. Affirmative action as the Americans call it. This is someone that is supremely good o. He has to everyday "fight" to prove his worth

You seem to understand what I'm saying.

That's what women in men dominated fields face. You can see over 85% of employees in a place are men, and they ask for just one qualified woman and all the men begin to call it preferential treatment and watering down and act like she's there by other means. But is that really what it is? This is like the classroom all over again.

Wish there was more literacy/understanding of inclusion and representation here. All I can see is personal conflict with those 2 concepts—inclusion and representation— that prevents even answering the simplest of questions. Anything contrary to the sentiment is deemed an argument.

I do not believe women are given preferential treatment or that recruiment processes are watered down for them. That is a myth.

I have left the thread for more knowledgeable bias contributors.

I actually find it borderline insulting to insinuate that the process is watered down for a female

tensazangetsu20:

Well if you are a lady you can start. Women in tech have it much easier and if it doesn't work out there's always marriage to a very rich man.

Fr! Women in tech are really beginning to find it much easier. Couple of female friends in tech have changed jobs over the years while the guys I know are really struggling to get their first Job and it's not like they're not good. Idk if the whole trend about getting more women into tech is really making it hard to see that the male techies also need help too. Alot of female bootcamps out there, not a single one for males ( this gender has always been positioned to figure things out themselves). About the marriage part me I no know o hahaha

airsaylongcome:


Are you kidding me now Tensa! Are you saying all I have to do to get my foot in the door is claim to be a female and I'd get a watered down screening? Seriously?!?!

How about non-binary and people who don't identify with a gender. Do they get easier questions than both male and female?

Are you saying that if a woman writes a piece of code for critical infrastructure and the code does not come up to scratch, QA will approve the code because it's a woman and they can accept watered down code because a woman had watered down job screening?

There's always empathy when a female is involved due to the "get more women into tech" trend