Nigeria's 4 Star General On The Armed Forces & Contemporary Security Challenges


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGHrh7ewR-w

I would apprecite it very much if you do justice to this topic:
F15/F16 vs SU35 in an all out war, which would you prefer is fighting for you? Which onedo you think is a better air superiority fight?
@Algerian @Flnker @jl115 @covert1 nd everyone else.

Stormtrooper11:


I do believe that Ethiopia is a regional power in its own rights. It's the second most populous country on the face of Africa. Ethiopia has a booming aviation industry. This national carrier has helped boomed its tourism sector. Ethiopia is also a major player in African diplomacy affairs but in the event of a conflict, Ethiopia can be easily crumbled.

Look at Kenya for example, Kenya has everything Ethiopia has except of population. Heck! Ethiopia has a civil war with alot of ethnicities which are at their "necks". Kenya would last more as a regional power and in a conflict compared to Ethiopia. Ethiopia has no ACCESS TO THE SEA. That's a big hindrance. Can you imagine South Africa with no access to the sea?! That'll be a Botswana. Now ask yourself. Right now, between South Africa and Botswana, who's much important in the SADC?!

You'll understand why Ethiopia is not actually a pure regional power.

comparing Ethiopia to Botswana is comical my bru and I don't think i gave to explain why...... Zimbabwe was at one stage one of the most powerful African countries even though it was landlocked.

jl115:
comparing Ethiopia to Botswana is comical my bru and I don't think i gave to explain why...... Zimbabwe was at one stage one of the most powerful African countries even though it was landlocked.

I would appreciate it if you could give me a detailed response to my question up there.

MiddleDimension:
I would appreciate it if you could give me a detailed response to my question up there.

because Botswana has a population of 2 million and Ethiopia 120 million

Not to mention Ethiopia had a military that was the largest in the region and one of the largest in Africa

MiddleDimension:
I would apprecite it very much if you do justice to this topic:
F15/F16 vs SU35 in an all out war, which would you prefer is fighting for you? Which onedo you think is a better air superiority fight? nd everyone else.

Except the two jets would be wearing boxing gloves and fighting out at National Stadium, Lagos. Then we can know

This type of 1 vs 1 debates of fighters is only good for wetting fangirl's appetites

Air superiority is interwoven with many factors; quality of pilots, sensors etc etc

But let's imagine all things are equal. I'd bet on the F15

Odunayaw fangirls ?

jl115:
comparing Ethiopia to Botswana is comical my bru and I don't think i gave to explain why...... Zimbabwe was at one stage one of the most powerful African countries even though it was landlocked.

Zimbabwe, powerful only in SADC you mean?

jl115:
because Botswana has a population of 2 million and Ethiopia 120 million

Not to mention Ethiopia had a military that was the largest in the region and one of the largest in Africa

lol

Subsaharan:


Zimbabwe, powerful only in SADC you mean?

I'm not talking Zimbabwe of today I'm talking Zimbabwe of the 80s

jl115:
I'm not talking Zimbabwe of today I'm talking Zimbabwe of the 80s

How did Zim and/or it's foreign policy influence Africa in the 80s?

Subsaharan:


How did Zim and/or it's foreign policy influence Africa in the 80s?

I said they were powerful and yeah they were at the forefront wrt the fight against apartheid

jl115:
I said they were powerful and yeah they were at the forefront wrt the fight against apartheid

In SADC?

Nemesis4you:
Odunayaw fangirls ?

hehe

MiddleDimension:
I would apprecite it very much if you do justice to this topic:
F15/F16 vs SU35 in an all out war, which would you prefer is fighting for you? Which onedo you think is a better air superiority fight?
@Algerian @Flnker @jl115 @covert1 nd everyone else.

Nobody knows bro, until they both engage each other anything can happen..even the hyped Raptor might get shot down by JF17 miraculously

Omofaye99:


Nobody knows bro, until they both engage each other anything can happen..even the hyped Raptor might get shot down by JF17 miraculously

Nothing like "miraculously" in Air Combat in the context of putting in the good work, systems & platforms: air training hours, re-training, air combat hours, BVR, stealth, EW, ECM, doctrine, pilot skill, discipline, exposure with counter forces to pick up radar signatures, pay & incentives, motivation, logistics, satellites, AWACS, ground based systems and a host of other factors including allies play into inevitable or predictable outcomes other than that combat pilots attribute unseen forces as an "act of God" which can be bird strike or generally uncontrollable acts of nature.

MiddleDimension:
I would apprecite it very much if you do justice to this topic:
F15/F16 vs SU35 in an all out war, which would you prefer is fighting for you? Which onedo you think is a better air superiority fight?
@Algerian @Flnker @jl115 @covert1 nd everyone else.

It's a good question. Aircrafts have roles. Bottom line is in today's modern air warfare, in the context of air-air combat, air superiority fighters are not up there programmed for first line of action Within-Visual-Range engagement (WVR) rather the F-15 or F-16 is programmed or suited for Beyond-Visual-Range (BVR) engagement. Simply put it is set up to detect at longer ranges and out of sight enemy aircrafts and light them up. That is why today the USAF incorporates 5th generation subsystems into the F-16s. I believe a portion of current US F-16 inventory have now AESA radars same which they have on the F-35s giving it the advantage to detect more targets at longer ranges and light them up. So in effect in the context of BVR combat its more about what you have on the aircraft than about the platform itself. The difference in platform in this instance is either a two engine fighter or single engine fighter, single seat or dual. In a practical warfare scenario an Tactical Air Combat Command would send aircrafts up for the roles they are best suited and for which they are built.

Now for the Su-35, generally the Flanker family aircrafts are built to be super maneuverable which gives it an edge in Within-Visual-Range (WVR) engagements. Here the Russian aircraft excels the F-15. Except for the USAF F-22 no other known fighter aircraft arguably can super maneuver as the Sukhoi aircrafts. However nations pour money into stealth and BVR technologies because in a peer warfare you might be dead in the air before you blink, it's more about who sees first shoots first. However the SU-35 an excellent non-stealthy aircraft has been used by the Russians to go up against the F-22 or F-35 both stealthy aircrafts and detected them at greater ranges so that would put it above the F-15 and certainly above the F-16. It is a deadly fighter. The Americans still don't have an answer for the SU-27 in the F-15 except for the stealthy F-35. Also of note is other factors that can play a role, aircraft availability which brings in maintenance, here western aircrafts have an edge as they are easier and cheaper to maintain and more reliable jet engines which produce more thrust.

I stress in the end pilot training, air combat hours, pilot agility and skill play a crucial role. A Saudi fighter pilot for instance can not be compared in proficiency to an Irainian fighter pilot. So having a shiny bird is one thing and having a nationalistic loyal skilled pilot is another factor in an adrenaline air combat.

Ground based systems or air borne systems like AWACS also can give an advantage. For everything developed there is a counter development. The Germans already excel in detection of stealth aircraft from ground based systems and reports have it the Iranians have once picked up the signature of USAF Lockhead-Martin Stealth F-35 aggressors with Russian supplied ground based radar.

I will choose an SU-35 as a sovereign nation with no inhibitions whatsoever in deployment and access to every code in its weapon suite to optimize employment of the fighter jet. JF-17s are now being optimized with AESA radars too.

MiddleDimension:
I would apprecite it very much if you do justice to this topic:
F15/F16 vs SU35 in an all out war, which would you prefer is fighting for you? Which onedo you think is a better air superiority fight?
@Algerian @Flnker @jl115 @covert1 nd everyone else.

With the way Russia is handling the war in Ukraine, and the loss of it's equipment is making Western weapons now looking like a preferred choice.

Asides the political constraints on western gears, I am now convinced that western weapons has superior and quality build compared to Russian/Soviet build.

Secondly, in today's air combat, BVR is now the mainstay of aerial warfare. It doesn't matter which aircraft.

Whoever sees and shoots first lives. Nevertheless, considering the technical aspects, range of BVR missile, AESA radar detection range, and radar cross section are important in deciding who comes out alive.

Likewise other support systems like EW suite, ECCM, AEW&C, and data links can act as a force multiplier.

So in this scenario, I believe the western jets ticks off all the box.

Rarely do aircraft now come into merge but if they ever do, I believe the SU-35 gets the advantage even against stealth primarily because of it's maneuverability and it's internal OLS-35 electro-optical infra-red search and track system which can comfortably track, target, and KILL stealth aircraft from at least 20 nautical miles.

Subsaharan:


In SADC?

SADC did not exist in 80s my bru

jl115:
SADC did not exist in 80s my bru

Ah, it did, but your point about Zim remains.

lionel4power:


With the way Russia is handling the war in Ukraine, and the loss of it's equipment is making Western weapons now looking like a preferred choice.

Asides the political constraints on western gears, I am now convinced that western weapons has superior and quality build compared to Russian/Soviet build.

Secondly, in today's air combat, BVR is now the mainstay of aerial warfare. It doesn't matter which aircraft.

Whoever sees and shoots first lives. Nevertheless, considering the technical aspects, range of BVR missile, AESA radar detection range, and radar cross section are important in deciding who comes out alive.

Likewise other support systems like EW suite, ECCM, AEW&C, and data links can act as a force multiplier.

So in this scenario, I believe the western jets ticks off all the box.

Rarely do aircraft now come into merge but if they ever do, I believe the SU-35 gets the advantage even against stealth primarily because of it's maneuverability and it's internal OLS-35 electro-optical infra-red search and track system which can comfortably track, target, and KILL stealth aircraft from at least 20 nautical miles.

sir no western aircraft have being involved in this type of war with a well equipped country. Majority of this western weapons may produce the same result if involved in a conflict related to this

JOSCOFELIX:
sir no western aircraft have being involved in this type of war with a well equipped country. Majority of this western weapons may produce the same result if involved in a conflict related to this

Yes true that is the general argument. Russia on it's own failed in the area of TACTICS and FORCE EMPLOYMENT.

Your equipment is only as good as how you employ them on the battlefield.

However, some of Russia's equipment suffered badly due to poor build. Nevertheless, western equipment has also suffered likewise on the same battlefield.

Lurker4Long:

Ah, it did, but your point about Zim remains.

SADCC yes.... Not SADC

NTSA:

Just watched a recent video of an IED hitting a technical in Lamu the thing was shredded into pieces

Payback time
KDF LRS Unit (long range surveillance & reconnaissance ) took out entire 11 member Al-Shabāab al-Mujahideen fighters logistics team that was moving IED’S towards Sarira.
LRS team acting on intelligence pre-empted the terror threat.

lionel4power:


With the way Russia is handling the war in Ukraine, and the loss of it's equipment is making Western weapons now looking like a preferred choice.

Asides the political constraints on western gears, I am now convinced that western weapons has superior and quality build compared to Russian/Soviet build.

Secondly, in today's air combat, BVR is now the mainstay of aerial warfare. It doesn't matter which aircraft.

Whoever sees and shoots first lives. Nevertheless, considering the technical aspects, range of BVR missile, AESA radar detection range, and radar cross section are important in deciding who comes out alive.

Likewise other support systems like EW suite, ECCM, AEW&C, and data links can act as a force multiplier.

So in this scenario, I believe the western jets ticks off all the box.

Rarely do aircraft now come into merge but if they ever do, I believe the SU-35 gets the advantage even against stealth primarily because of it's maneuverability and it's internal OLS-35 electro-optical infra-red search and track system which can comfortably track, target, and KILL stealth aircraft from at least 20 nautical miles.

REALLY!? Can you give us an OSINT based comparative study looking at price, combat effectiveness, survivability, maintenance, user friendliness of the
- T 90 vs Leopard 2 A6/7, M1 A2
- 2S19 Msta vs Caesar/ PZH 2000
- Russian D 20 vs M 777
- Su 30 series vs F 15/18s
- Mi 28/ Ka 50/2 vs Apaches/ Cobra AZ 1.

Meaning look at the specs closely even if maybe OEM exaggeration. Eg the T 90s all have an APS- how does that increase their effectiveness against Western tanks? What of their respective armour protection levels? Which gunship has best armour/ speed and payload?
Do that for each platform. I'll wait.
Thanks!

Covert1:


It's a good question. Aircrafts have roles. Bottom line is in today's modern air warfare, in the context of air-air combat, air superiority fighters are not up there programmed for first line of action Within-Visual-Range engagement (WVR) rather the F-15 or F-16 is programmed or suited for Beyond-Visual-Range (BVR) engagement. Simply put it is set up to detect at longer ranges and out of sight enemy aircrafts and light them up. That is why today the USAF incorporates 5th generation subsystems into the F-16s. I believe a portion of current US F-16 inventory have now AESA radars same which they have on the F-35s giving it the advantage to detect more targets at longer ranges and light them up. So in effect in the context of BVR combat its more about what you have on the aircraft than about the platform itself. The difference in platform in this instance is either a two engine fighter or single engine fighter, single seat or dual. In a practical warfare scenario an Tactical Air Combat Command would send aircrafts up for the roles they are best suited and for which they are built.

Now for the Su-35, generally the Flanker family aircrafts are built to be super maneuverable which gives it an edge in Within-Visual-Range (WVR) engagements. Here the Russian aircraft excels the F-15. Except for the USAF F-22 no other known fighter aircraft arguably can super maneuver as the Sukhoi aircrafts. However nations pour money into stealth and BVR technologies because in a peer warfare you might be dead in the air before you blink, it's more about who sees first shoots first. However the SU-35 an excellent non-stealthy aircraft has been used by the Russians to go up against the F-22 or F-35 both stealthy aircrafts and detected them at greater ranges so that would put it above the F-15 and certainly above the F-16. It is a deadly fighter. The Americans still don't have an answer for the SU-27 in the F-15 except for the stealthy F-35. Also of note is other factors that can play a role, aircraft availability which brings in maintenance, here western aircrafts have an edge as they are easier and cheaper to maintain and more reliable jet engines which produce more thrust.

I stress in the end pilot training, air combat hours, pilot agility and skill play a crucial role. A Saudi fighter pilot for instance can not be compared in proficiency to an Irainian fighter pilot. So having a shiny bird is one thing and having a nationalistic loyal skilled pilot is another factor in an adrenaline air combat.

Ground based systems or air borne systems like AWACS also can give an advantage. For everything developed there is a counter development. The Germans already excel in detection of stealth aircraft from ground based systems and reports have it the Iranians have once picked up the signature of USAF Lockhead-Martin Stealth F-35 aggressors with Russian supplied ground based radar.

I will choose an SU-35 as a sovereign nation with no inhibitions whatsoever in deployment and access to every code in its weapon suite to optimize employment of the fighter jet. JF-17s are now being optimized with AESA radars too.

I do not know if any of you are already aware of this channel on youtube, I think it is a brilliant alternative point of view. He is a former US marine.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cZLquO2QTE

no weather no terrain

NTSA:
no weather no terrain

KDF soldier sharing his canned pineapples with a kid

Covert1:


It's a good question. Aircrafts have roles. Bottom line is in today's modern air warfare, in the context of air-air combat, air superiority fighters are not up there programmed for first line of action Within-Visual-Range engagement (WVR) rather the F-15 or F-16 is programmed or suited for Beyond-Visual-Range (BVR) engagement. Simply put it is set up to detect at longer ranges and out of sight enemy aircrafts and light them up. That is why today the USAF incorporates 5th generation subsystems into the F-16s. I believe a portion of current US F-16 inventory have now AESA radars same which they have on the F-35s giving it the advantage to detect more targets at longer ranges and light them up. So in effect in the context of BVR combat its more about what you have on the aircraft than about the platform itself. The difference in platform in this instance is either a two engine fighter or single engine fighter, single seat or dual. In a practical warfare scenario an Tactical Air Combat Command would send aircrafts up for the roles they are best suited and for which they are built.

Now for the Su-35, generally the Flanker family aircrafts are built to be super maneuverable which gives it an edge in Within-Visual-Range (WVR) engagements. Here the Russian aircraft excels the F-15. Except for the USAF F-22 no other known fighter aircraft arguably can super maneuver as the Sukhoi aircrafts. However nations pour money into stealth and BVR technologies because in a peer warfare you might be dead in the air before you blink, it's more about who sees first shoots first. However the SU-35 an excellent non-stealthy aircraft has been used by the Russians to go up against the F-22 or F-35 both stealthy aircrafts and detected them at greater ranges so that would put it above the F-15 and certainly above the F-16. It is a deadly fighter. The Americans still don't have an answer for the SU-27 in the F-15 except for the stealthy F-35. Also of note is other factors that can play a role, aircraft availability which brings in maintenance, here western aircrafts have an edge as they are easier and cheaper to maintain and more reliable jet engines which produce more thrust.

I stress in the end pilot training, air combat hours, pilot agility and skill play a crucial role. A Saudi fighter pilot for instance can not be compared in proficiency to an Irainian fighter pilot. So having a shiny bird is one thing and having a nationalistic loyal skilled pilot is another factor in an adrenaline air combat.

Ground based systems or air borne systems like AWACS also can give an advantage. For everything developed there is a counter development. The Germans already excel in detection of stealth aircraft from ground based systems and reports have it the Iranians have once picked up the signature of USAF Lockhead-Martin Stealth F-35 aggressors with Russian supplied ground based radar.

I will choose an SU-35 as a sovereign nation with no inhibitions whatsoever in deployment and access to every code in its weapon suite to optimize employment of the fighter jet. JF-17s are now being optimized with AESA radars too.

Very good and accurate discourse.
I only disagree on SU27s and their derivatives. They are not showing good performance in Ukraine in terms of good sensors, self protection systems and counter measures

NTSA:
no weather no terrain

why are they on a file? won't it be better they are spread out? I thnk in this way, they are more vulnerable to ambush; but, what do I know?

JOSCOFELIX:
sir no western aircraft have being involved in this type of war with a well equipped country. Majority of this western weapons may produce the same result if involved in a conflict related to this

2003 US invasion of Iraq??