You cannot be an atheist and have an objective morality meaning morality values that is true to everyone regardless of region, tribe, race or gender?

Meaning you cannot say murder, lying, fraud, cheating, or any vice is objectively wrong but that does not mean that atheists are not moral only that they have no basis to say this or that is absolutely wrong.

Steep:
You cannot be an atheist and have an objective morality meaning morality values that is true to everyone regardless of region, tribe, race or gender?

Meaning you cannot say murder, lying, fraud, cheating, or any vice is objectively wrong but that does not mean that atheists are not moral only that they have no basis to say this or that is absolutely wrong.

Nonsense! It is very objectively wrong for you to murder me or lie to me or commit fraud on me or cheat me or for me to do any of those things to others based on their religion, region, tribe, race or gender. And it is definitely not right for me to murder you or lie to you or commit fraud on you or cheat you regardless of your religion. Besides, if I do any of those things to you, I lack the privilege of excusing myself by asking some God to forgive me so I can go sin again.

Atheists, I'd say, would in fact mostly have an objective morality as opposed to the subjective morality that a religious person might have, especially since some religions approve of murder, lying, fraud, cheating where other religions, region tribe, race or gender are concerned. It is after all not atheists who pour petrol on thieves and set them alight on Nigerian streets, and being a pastor does not mean one may not lie or cheat others.

That said, a person's morality is always mostly subjective to the person regardless, though we can all accept that some things like murder, lying, fraud and cheating are objectively, and should be subjectively wrong too.

Steep:
You cannot be an atheist and have an objective morality meaning morality values that is true to everyone regardless of region, tribe, race or gender? Meaning you cannot say murder, lying, fraud, cheating, or any vice is objectively wrong but that does not mean that atheists are not moral only that they have no basis to say this or that is absolutely wrong.

Of course they will claim there is basis but the problem is they don't know why there must be basis for morality since each of them want to be absolutely free without restraint!

budaatum:


Nonsense! It is very objectively wrong for you to murder me or lie to me or commit fraud on me or cheat me or for me to do any of those things to others based on their religion, region, tribe, race or gender. And it is definitely not right for me to murder you or lie to you or commit fraud on you or cheat you regardless of your religion. Besides, if I do any of those things to you, I lack the privilege of excusing myself by asking some God to forgive me so I can go sin again.

Atheists, I'd say, would in fact mostly have an objective morality as opposed to the subjective morality that a religious person might have, especially since some religions approve of murder, lying, fraud, cheating where other religions, region tribe, race or gender are concerned. It is after all not atheists who pour petrol on thieves and set them alight on Nigerian streets, and being a pastor does not mean one may not lie or cheat others.

That said, a person's morality is always mostly subjective to the person regardless, though we can all accept that some things like murder, lying, fraud and cheating are objectively, and should be subjectively wrong too.

Why is it objectively wrong?

MaxInDHouse:


Of course they will claim there is basis but the problem is they don't know why there must be basis for morality since each of them want to be absolutely free without restraint!

without the concept of God there is no absolutely right and wrong.

Steep:
You cannot be an atheist and have an objective morality meaning morality values that is true to everyone regardless of region, tribe, race or gender?

Meaning you cannot say murder, lying, fraud, cheating, or any vice is objectively wrong but that does not mean that atheists are not moral only that they have no basis to say this or that is absolutely wrong.

Is something good because yahweh decrees it to be good, or does yahweh decree something to be good because it is in good in itself?

Steep:
Why is it objectively wrong?

Objectivity is not wrong. Subjective humans should however not claim objectivity when they are obviously subjective.

Steep:
without the concept of God there is no absolutely right and wrong.

Rubbish! Countries that don't do your God still have the absolute wrongs of murder, lying, fraud, cheating. We Nigerians had laws against those wrongs before your God arrived there.

Maynmann:

Is something good because yahweh decrees it to be good, or does yahweh decree something to be good because it is in good in itself?

No Not just because yaweh decreed it but morality exist because we are all created by God and therefore has innate value, the atheistic world view does not allow for such.

budaatum:


Rubbish! Countries that don't do your God still have the absolute wrongs of murder, lying, fraud, cheating. We Nigerians had laws against those wrongs before your God arrived there.

that is because those countries are borrowed from Judeo-Christian world view.
The argument is that atheism has no basis for morality and so far no reasonable reply.

Steep:
that is because those countries are borrowed from Judeo-Christian world view.
The argument is that atheism has no basis for morality and so far no reasonable reply.

Nigeria did not borrow from Judeo-Christian world view before the so called Judeo-Christian world view was sold to you. In fact, the Islamic world view arrived in Nigeria before Christianity did, and we had laws against murder, lying, fraud, cheating before it arrived, which at this point makes me wonder what you know about this topic.

Steep:
No Not just because yaweh decreed it but morality exist because we are all created by God and therefore has innate value, the atheistic world view does not allow for such.

So good exist without yahweh?
And yahweh is under this law as he is a good god abi

What’s the atheistic view?

Steep:
without the concept of God there is no absolutely right and wrong.

what is objective morality?

Steep:
that is because those countries are borrowed from Judeo-Christian world view.
The argument is that atheism has no basis for morality and so far no reasonable reply.

“Judeo christian worldview”, When was judaism and christianity created?
There was no morality before then?

Steep:
No Not just because yaweh decreed it but morality exist because we are all created by God and therefore has innate value, the atheistic world view does not allow for such.

So, becoming an atheist removes what you claim is innate? Did your God not create the atheist?

budaatum:


Nigeria did not borrow from Judeo-Christian world view before the so called Judeo-Christian world view was sold to you. In fact, the Islamic world view arrived in Nigeria before Christianity did, and we had laws against murder, lying, fraud, cheating before it arrived, which at this point makes me wonder what you know about this topic.

But Nigeria and Islamic countries are theistic apart from that the argument is simple,
Atheism has no basis for objective morality.

Steep:

But Nigeria and Islamic countries are theistic apart from that the argument is simple,
Atheism has no basis for objective morality.

What is objective morality?

hopefulLandlord:


what is objective morality?

It means what is having a universal morality.

Steep:

It means what is having a universal morality.

Is lying moral?
Is lying to save your life moral?

budaatum:


What is objective morality?

objective morality means what is wrong or right is not dependent on individual choice

Steep:
It means what is having a universal morality.

okay, so what's universal morality?

Maynmann:

Is lying moral?
Is lying to save your life moral?

It is wrong regardless

hopefulLandlord:


okay, so what's universal morality?

Adultery, taking innocent lives, stealing etc
My friend this is not the point, the point is atheism does not have any basis for morality.

Steep:

It is wrong regardless

What makes it wrong?

Your yahweh was wrong when he asked abraham to lie then.

Maynmann:

What makes it wrong?

Your yahweh was wrong when he asked abraham to lie then.

Because God is against it.
You are beating about with no bearing, atheism has no basis for objective morality,

Steep:
objective morality means what is wrong or right is not dependent on individual choice

The wrongness of murder, lying, fraud, cheating does not depend on individual choice. Before your Yahweh was created, Egypt, Rome, Greece, China and Yorubas along with most societies, all had laws against those wrongs. Most societies figured out for themselves that those things are detrimental to society and are therefore wrong and did not need any gods to tell them that.

Maynmann:

What makes it wrong?

Your yahweh was wrong when he asked abraham to lie then.

when did yahweh ask Abraham to lie?

Steep:
Because God is against it.
You are beating about with no bearing, atheism has no basis for objective morality,

Is something good because yahweh decrees it to be good, or does yahweh decree something to be good because it is in good in itself?

You will be a rapist if your god told you to be, you don’t know what morality means

budaatum:


The wrongness of murder, lying, fraud, cheating does not depend on individual choice. Before your Yahweh was created, Egypt, Rome, Greece, China and Yorubas along with most societies, all had laws against those wrongs. Most societies figured out for themselves that those things are detrimental to society and are therefore wrong and did not need any gods to tell them that.

We all agree it is wrong but we all cannot explain why it is wrong, and atheist cannot explain why something is wrong objectively, that is the case.

Steep:
when did yahweh ask Abraham to lie?

Yahweh is going against himself ?
Didn’t you just say yahweh is against lying to save yourself?

Steep:

We all agree it is wrong but we all cannot explain why it is wrong, and atheist cannot explain why something is wrong objectively, that is the case.

I have explained why it is wrong for you to "murder, lying, fraud, cheating" me, and why it is wrong for me to "murder, lying, fraud, cheating" you. Kindly read it below for understanding.

There is the objective law of any land that will charge you for those crimes, and the prison you'd end up in is very objective indeed.

budaatum:
It is very objectively wrong for you to murder me or lie to me or commit fraud on me or cheat me or for me to do any of those things to others based on their religion, region, tribe, race or gender. And it is definitely not right for me to murder you or lie to you or commit fraud on you or cheat you regardless of your religion. Besides, if I do any of those things to you, I lack the privilege of excusing myself by asking some God to forgive me so I can go sin again.

Steep:

Adultery, taking innocent lives, stealing etc
My friend this is not the point, the point is atheism does not have any basis for morality.

stay on track my friend. so you're saying what makes these things wrong is because it's universally wrong?