Steep:
You cannot be an atheist and have an objective morality meaning morality values that is true to everyone regardless of region, tribe, race or gender?

Meaning you cannot say murder, lying, fraud, cheating, or any vice is objectively wrong but that does not mean that atheists are not moral only that they have no basis to say this or that is absolutely wrong.

Define objective morality.

FxMasterz:


Bro, even psychologists are not in support of your views. When people murdered and raped and stole, did they start announcing themselves about that they're killers and thieves? But when a man does commendable things, he uses it to get glory.

Yes they did announce themselves! Go read about Julius Caesar and see how a murderer and thief was glorified, though I'm talking way before that.

Even in the Bible you get to read the glory of the Israelites plunderings and rapings! Some of it was so bad that it never got into the Bible you now read, since they evolved and saw it as mortally wrong and left most of it out, though at the time their gods sanctioned it.

https://www.thetorah.com/article/the-rape-of-dinah-added-as-a-motive-for-the-sack-of-shechem

Steep:

You mean for example rape is not universally wrong?

No, rape is not universally wrong. You can't be condemned of raping your wife in Nigeria!

Steep:
objective morality means what is wrong or right is not dependent on individual choice

So when the god is said to have killed the god wasn't being objectively moral?

Steep:
objective morality means what is wrong or right is not dependent on individual choice

All moral systems are subjective, even the one you think comes from your god.

Steep:
My world view is that God created everybody so doing harm to anybody is wrong universally, atheism has no room for this.

So doing harm to someone about to kill you is wrong?

Maynmann:

Why can’t the miracles be seen by everyone?
Was Iesus chrestus or people in the tanakh miracles not seen by everyone?

Why do i need to go to a shrine before i can see the “miracles”?
Why are they not performing the miracles at hospitals and mortuaries?

There are norms in every organizations. Institutions evolve as they grow. Things that were acceptable yesterday may no longer be acceptable today. Such is life. There are cases where even governments have criticised and passed laws to regulate the activities of healing evangelists. Accusing them of practicing healing without license. This has happened especially in the United States.

Jesus is not like any of us. We're His servants, and can only go where He sends us, and do only what He asks us to do. Also, everyone has his own area of influence and gifting. Jesus carried a universal anointing. Nobody can immitate Him.

Yes, there are those who have performed healings and miracles in hospitals when particularly invited by the sick. It's wrong to just walk in and start laying hands on everyone in the premises of an hospital.

There are several miracles taking place as we speak. You can go where they're happening. Infact, you could do it as a researcher.

Read about the following people if you care to know more. Joseph Ayo Babalola of C.A C and Archbishop Benson Idahosa (There are live videos of him raising the dead at preaching engagements in the US and UK).

Today, people like EA Adeboye, W.F Kumuyi, David Oyedepo, D.K Olukoya, Paul Enenche, David Ibiyheomie, Chris Oyakhilome and hundreds of thousands of barely known men of God still perform miracles today. I myself have seen tremendous miracles through my hands. It's absolute foolishness and madness for me to be lying to defend miracles if they don't exist. I do not expect you to believe me but make a Google search on those names I mentioned. Some of them who have died, such as Ayo Babalola have physically verifiable evidences on several prayer mountains. Those who are alive have miracle hours they televise. If you don't believe in what you see on TV, walk into their auditoriums as a researcher. You won't come back the same.

God is real my brother. I'm not saying it for the sake of it. God is real. This is the absolute truth.

If you read the wrong books, you'll acquire the wrong knowledge. If you research into the right places, you'll find the truth.

Steep:
If God make rape to be a good thing then rape becomes good, ultimately without God no basis for morality.

what is the basis of morality as an atheist?
But free will does not exist in the atheistic world view.

Exactly why I said even your so called objective morality is subjective, your god is who you think decides what is morally good or bad.

The basis of my morality as an atheist is wellbeing.

FxMasterz:


There are norms in every organizations. Institutions evolve as they grow. Things that were acceptable yesterday may no longer be acceptable today. Such is life. There are cases where even governments have criticised and passed laws to regulate the activities of healing evangelists. Accusing them of practicing healing without license. This has happened especially in the United States.

Jesus is not like any of us. We're His servants, and can only go where He sends us, and do only what He asks us to do. Also, everyone has his own area of influence and gifting. Jesus carried a universal anointing. Nobody can immitate Him.

Yes, there are those who have performed healings and miracles in hospitals when particularly invited by the sick. It's wrong to just walk in and start laying hands on everyone in the premises of an hospital.

There are several miracles taking place as we speak. You can go where they're happening. Infact, you could do it as a researcher.

Read about the following people if you care to know more. Joseph Ayo Babalola of C.A C and Archbishop Benson Idahosa (There are live videos of him raising the dead at preaching engagements in the US and UK).

Today, people like EA Adeboye, W.F Kumuyi, David Oyedepo, D.K Olukoya, Paul Enenche, David Ibiyheomie, Chris Oyakhilome and hundreds of thousands of barely known men of God still perform miracles today. I myself have seen tremendous miracles through my hands. It's absolute foolishness and madness for me to be lying to defend miracles if they don't exist. I do not expect you to believe me but make a Google search on those names I mentioned. Some of them who have died, such as Ayo Babalola have physically verifiable evidences on several prayer mountains. Those who are alive have miracle hours they televise. If you don't believe in what you see on TV, walk into their auditoriums as a researcher. You won't come back the same.

God is real my brother. I'm not saying it for the sake of it. God is real. This is the absolute truth.

If you read the wrong books, you'll acquire the wrong knowledge. If you research into the right places, you'll find the truth.

Why do i need to go to a shrine before i can see the “miracles”?
Why are they not performing the miracles at hospitals and mortuaries?
Who told you it is wrong laying hands on people to heal them?
Is it one of the universally laws?

My brother your god yahweh is nothing but a dummy idol worshipped by the Israelites
Iesus chrestus is a creation of the Roman Empire.
Bro please i don’t want you to die a yahweh worshipper waiting for a jewish man to be your savior.

Truth are not subjective, truth should be able to be verified and tested and it Will bring the same results again and again, don’t confuse opinions gotten from random books with UNKNOWN AUTHORS.

budaatum:


Yes they did announce themselves! Go read about Julius Caesar and see how a murderer and thief was glorified, though I'm talking way before that.

Even in the Bible you get to read the glory of the Israelites plunderings and rapings! Some of it was so bad that it never got into the Bible you now read, since they evolved and saw it as mortally wrong and left most of it out, though at the time their gods sanctioned it.

https://www.thetorah.com/article/the-rape-of-dinah-added-as-a-motive-for-the-sack-of-shechem

Julius Ceaser never commended himself for his evil. He was an emperor of Rome who did evil because he was a supreme ruler over his people. No one living a normal life would do what he did so openly and brazingly. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. That was Nero's case as well as that of several other tyrants of this world. We're talking about universally accepted moral laws. Even Julius Ceaser himself knew he was evil. Did he ever pass his deeds into law to be replicated by every Roman? Or did he ever preach that everyone should emulate him? No, he can't because he knew he was doing evil.

Israel in its formative years waged wars before settling down as a nation. Many nations, tribes and cultures have fought wars before they settled in their various communities and established boundaries. You can't use the wars of Israel to castigate Israel. There's no law in the Bible where rape or murder is justified. Quote the verse. Do not suppose that you're chatting a novice Christian. I'm very very knowledgeable about the Bible so much so that I'll back up a single claim with several scriptural references. So, be well prepared with me.

Maynmann:


Why do i need to go to a shrine before i can see the “miracles”?
Why are they not performing the miracles at hospitals and mortuaries?
Who told you it is wrong laying hands on people to heal them?
Is it one of the universally laws?

My brother your god yahweh is nothing but a dummy idol worshipped by the Israelites
Iesus chrestus is a creation of the Roman Empire.
Bro please i don’t want you to die a yahweh worshipper waiting for a jewish man to be your savior.

Truth are not subjective, truth should be able to be verified and tested and it Will bring the same results again and again, don’t confuse opinions gotten from random books with UNKNOWN AUTHORS.

My brother, why must the sick go to hospitals so the doctors can heal them? If you want to know anything or clear your doubts about medical healings, won't you go to the hospital? That's because a hospital is a doctor's place of influence.

A church is a pastor's place of influence. If you want to Know or clear your doubts about spiritual healings or miracles, go there.

FxMasterz:


My brother, why must the sick go to hospitals so the doctors can heal them. If you want to know anything or clear your doubts medical healings, won't you go to the hospital? That's because a hospital is a doctor's place of influence.

A church is a pastors place of influence. If you want to Kno or clear your doubts about spiritual healing or miracles, go there.

Because the equipments needed are in the hospitals, ANYWHERE the tools are available they can do their job..
The doctor doesn’t need a building called hospital to do his job.
Rich people are treated at home.


What do you mean “ hospital is a doctor's place of influence. ”?

budaatum:


You obviously don't know how to seek until you find, which is no surprise since you forgot the title and authors name.

https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/a/borden-deal-7/the-tobacco-men/

No this isn't the book.

The title of the book is Oren Knox. The content that I narrated isn't about tobacco men at all. I didn't forget the title and the content. I only forgot the name of the author.

Maynmann:

Because the equipments needed are in the hospitals, ANYWHERE the tools are available they can do their job..
The doctor doesn’t need a building called hospital to do his job.
Rich people are treated at home.

Same as the pastors. They visit homes whenever they're invited. Rich or poor. But their primary place of contact is the church, just as it is the hospital for the doctor.

FxMasterz:


Same as the pastors. They visit homes whenever they're invited. Rich or poor. But there primary place of contact is the church, just as it is the hospital for the doctor.

Same as nativepriests too.

Any building can be an hospital, we have hospitals on ships.
A doctor is a doctor without an hospital.

Why do i need to go to a shrine before i can see the “miracles”?
Why are they not performing the miracles at hospitals and mortuaries?

Maynmann:

Same as nativepriests too.

Any building can be an hospital, we have hospitals on ships.
A doctor is a doctor without an hospital.

A doctor can't function maximally without his equipments. Whether in the ship or in the room.

A pastor is not a pastor because of a church building. That's just his primary place of contact and influence. He can minister wherever he is invited. Sea, air or land. All he needs is an invitation. The same applies to a doctor.

FxMasterz:


A doctor can't function maximally without his equipments. Whether in the ship or in the room.

A pastor is not a pastor because of a church building. That's just his primary place of contact and influence. He can minister wherever he is invited. Sea, air or land. All he needs is an invitation. The same applies to a doctor.

A doctor equipment is not an hospital.
Yes, exactly if there are no equipments in the hospital, the doctor can’t perform maximally.
So How does a building named “hospital” influence a doctor?

Why do i need to go to a shrine before i can see the “miracles”?
Why are they not performing the miracles at hospitals and mortuaries, everyone is invited there.

If a doctor sees someone that needs help and it won’t cost money, they will help that person without been told.

FxMasterz:

No this isn't the book.

The title of the book is Oren Knox. The content that I narrated isn't about tobacco men at all. I didn't forget the title and the content. I only forgot the name of the author.

I'm certain that's what you believe.

https://www.morgansrarebooks.com/products/the-tobacco-men-by-borden-deal

FxMasterz:

I myself have seen tremendous miracles through my hands.

Do you expect us to believe this?

Then again, you are not the only miracle worker here, I guess.

Maynmann:

A doctor equipment is not an hospital.
Yes, exactly if there are no equipments in the hospital, the doctor can’t perform maximally.
So How does a building named “hospital” influence a doctor?

Why do i need to go to a shrine before i can see the “miracles”?
Why are they not performing the miracles at hospitals and mortuaries, everyone is invited there.

If a doctor sees someone that needs help and it won’t cost money, they will help that person without been told.

Similarly, a pastor would help you without being told. He just needs to ask your permission.

A hospital is the doctor's place of influence. I never said the hospital influences the doctor.

A pastor walking into a hospital to perform miracles is a trespasser in that hospital. He could be arrested and jailed. Pastors usually go to hospitals to pray for individual sick people who invite them, or their church members with whom they have relationship. Most times, other sick people around would ask for prayers, the pastor would pray and leave.

If a pastor would go pray in a hospital, the hospital must invite the pastor. Otherwise, the pastor has no right to enter the hospital to do anything. He's a trespasser.

If you want to see miracles, invite a truly anointed pastor to your home. If a hospital wants to see miracles, they should invite a truly anointed pastor. If you have a hospital and desire to see miracles, invite a truly anointed pastor to your hospital. Otherwise, go meet him in church the sane way you'll go meet a doctor or an engineer in his place of influence.

budaatum:


Do you expect us to believe this?

Then again, you are not the only miracle worker here, I guess.

Yes, I don't expect you to believe anything. I'll only tell you all the truth I know. To believe or not to believe is your personal choice.

FxMasterz:


Similarly, a pastor would help you without bring told. He just needs to ask your permission.

A hospital is the doctor's place of influence. I never said the hospital influences the doctor.

A pastor walking into a hospital to perform miracles is a trespasser in that hospital. He could be arrested and jailed. Pastors usually go to hospitals to pray for individual sick people who invite them, or their church members with whom they have relationship. Most times, other sick people around would ask for prayers, the pastor would pray and leave.

If a pastor would go pray in a hospital, the hospital must invite the pastor. Otherwise, the pastor has no right to enter the hospital to do anything. He's a trespasser.

If you want to see miracles, invite a truly anointed pastor to your home. If a hospital wants to see miracles, they should invite a truly anointed pastor. If you have a hospital and desire to see miracles, invite a truly anointed pastor to your hospital. Otherwise, go meet him in church the sane way you'll go meet a doctor or an engineer in his place of influence.

What do you mean a doctor’s place of influence is the hospital?

Which pastor have been arrested for trespassing?

And why can’t pastors pray in their church and heal those in the hospital and mortuary?
Must they see who they are praying to?

FxMasterz:


Yes, I don't expect you to believe anything. I'll only tell you all the truth I know. To believe or not to believe is your personal choice.

That's the problem. You believe instead of seeking with all your heart and soul and mind and being so that you may know. Same way Adam believed he would die if he ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, until Eve decided to use her own senses to test so that she may actually know.

Maynmann:

What do you mean a doctor’s place of influence is the hospital?

Which pastor have been arrested for trespassing?

And why can’t pastors pray in their church and heal those in the hospital and mortuary?
Must they see who they are praying to?

A hospital is a doctor's place of influence because that's his jurisdiction. He exercises full authority and power in that hospital. In order places, he can only advice. In his hospital, he makes decisions. It is left for anyone to accept or reject his decision. That's his place of influence.

As there are universally active scientific laws for the operations of our world as well as the universe in which we dwell. The Spirit realm has its laws. A pastor cannot stand in his church and influence miracles in a hospital or mortuary except he is given specific names of persons or groups he must pray for. Yes, the miracle would be delivered to the target persons; but someone must provide those specific details.

FxMasterz:


A hospital is a doctor's place of influence because that's his jurisdiction. He exercises full authority and power in that hospital. In order places, he can only advice. In his hospital, he makes decisions. It is left for anyone to accept or reject his decision. That's his place of influence.

As there are universally active scientific laws for the operations of our world as well as the universe in which we dwell. The Spirit realm has its laws. A pastor cannot stand in his church and influence miracles in a hospital or mortuary except he is given specific names of persons or groups he must pray for. Yes, the miracle would be delivered to the target persons; but someone must provide those specific details.

A doctor doesn’t need a hospital.
A hospital is just a building.
I don’t think you know what “hospital” means.
He is still a doctor in other places if he needs to treat people, he does not exercise any authority or power in the hospital, he treats people that is all.

You are yet to say anything worthy

budaatum:


That's the problem. You believe instead of seeking with all your heart and soul and mind and being so that you may know. Same way Adam believed he would die if he ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, until Eve decided to use her own senses to test so that she may actually know.

In the Bible, there are two types of death.

1. Spiritual death. This is the king of all deaths. Eternal separation from God.

2. Physical Death. This is just a transition. A separation of the spirit from its body.

Spiritual death is the real death. This was the death God was talking about in Eden. Eternal separation from God. Absolute loss of contact. A termination of spiritual connection with the Creator. This the very death they died on that day they ate the fruits. The same death that runs in all humans. The reason for which people like you are unable to connect with God. Hence you say God does not exist.

When a person is born again, he has a spiritual resurrection. A rebirth. The connection with God is re-established. He can now relate with God and know without doubt that God is real because he has a relationship.

Dead people know nothing because the dead cannot perceive. It's impossible. When a man dies. He's dead to you and you're dead to him. There's no connection. Spiritual death is the ultimate death. This is the death that Adam and Eve died. The whole world without a resurrection experience is still in this state.

FxMasterz:

In the Bible, there are two types of death.

1. Spiritual death. This is the king of all deaths. Eternal separation from God.

2. Physical Death. This is just a transition. A separation of the spirit from its body.

Adam, who after eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and died "spiritual death", according to you, went on, according to the Bible, to populate the earth with the billions of human beings that have lived since then and died a physical death at 930 years old, which was 810 years after eating the fruit that supposedly killed him.

Dear God of FxMasterz, after I eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, which I would surely definitely eat if placed in the Garden of Eden, please let me live only 93 years and let my descendants be only 1 billionth of Adam's. Amen.

That your wuruwuru, calling living, death, does not work on me. If you studied what is written about Christ, you'd know that the cure for people dying for lack of knowledge is to cure oneself by eating knowledge fruits. You'd live longer if you did.

Maynmann:

A doctor doesn’t need a hospital.
A hospital is just a building.
I don’t think you know what “hospital” means.
He is still a doctor in other places if he needs to treat people, he does not exercise any authority or power in the hospital, he treats people that is all.

You are yet to say anything worthy

That's still in tandem with all I have been saying. There's no contradiction between what you've said and what I said. I never said a doctor needs a hospital to operate. And I never said a pastor needs a church to operate.

Power and authority in my context is the ability to do what you want the way you want to do it without being directed by anybody. That's the advantage of her doctor's place of influence. That's why I clarified that in places other than his hospital, he can only advice or even take permissions before doing anything. In his hospital, he send a staff away especially if he owns the hospital. He has that authority and power. He can admit or reject a patient. He has the authority and power. He makes the rules. It's his place of influence. That's the same with a pastor in his church.

A doctor can't treat patient even in another person's hospital without the permission of the authorities in that hospital. He's a trespasser there. He could be arrested and jailed. In his own hospital, he can treat anyone. Outside his hospital or home, he needs permission.

Everyone has his place of influence. In my house. I'm the power and authority. Tinubu as president cannot command me on matters relating to my family. I'm the decision maker. This is my place of influence.

FxMasterz:


That's still in tandem with all I have been saying. There's no contradiction between what you've said and what I said. I never said a doctor needs a hospital to operate. And I never said a pastor needs a church to operate.

Power and authority in my context is the ability to do what you want the way you want to do it without being directed by anybody. That's the advantage of her doctor's place of influence. That's why I clarified that in places other than his hospital, he can only advice or even take permissions before doing anything. In his hospital, he send a staff away especially if he owns the hospital. He has that authority and power. He can admit or reject a patient. He has the authority and power. He makes the rules. It's his place of influence. That's the same with a pastor in his church.

A doctor can't treat patient even in another person's hospital without the permission of the authorities in that hospital. He's a trespasser there. He could be arrested and jailed. In his own hospital, he can treat anyone. Outside his hospital or home, he needs permission.

Everyone has his place of influence. In my house. I'm the power and authority. Tinubu as president cannot command me on matters relating to my family. I'm the decision maker. This is my place of influence.

The doctor can’t do what he wants in the hospital, he needs to treat people that is all.

Are you confusing the owner of the hospital with a doctor?

Is it only in your house that you can command matters relating to your family?

Maynmann:

The doctor can’t do what he wants in the hospital, he needs to treat people that is all.

Are you confusing the owner of the hospital with a doctor?

In my context, I'm talking about a doctor who owns a hospital because that's at par with a pastor who owns a church.

FxMasterz:


In my context, I'm talking about a doctor who owns a hospital because that's at par with a pastor who owns a church.

The job of a doctor is not to own an hospital.
Only pastors who owns a church can perform miracles, got you.

An owner of anything has influence on his property, thats common sense.
What has this got to do with the discussions?

Maynmann:


The job of a doctor is not to own an hospital.

An owner of anything has influence on his property, thats common sense.
What has this got to do with the discussions?

Are we talking about the job of a doctor to own or not to own? We're talking about a doctor in relation to a pastor. And for justice, we can only accurately juxtapose that pastor with a doctor who owns a hospital because pastors usually own churches which I called their places of influence.

Even if the doctor does not own a hospital, he still has authority and power according to the limits given to him by the owner of the hospital. Still he can't operate in another hospital where he has not been given any authority or power to operate. In both scenarios, whether he owns the place or not, people go to the hospitals to see doctors. They go to church to see pastors.