₦airaland Forum

OLAADEGBU:
Is Jesus really God? There are many cults and false religions today that deny it. What is the truth about Jesus Christ? We turn to the Scriptures for the answer.

OLAADEGBU:
Is Jesus really God? There are many cults and false religions today that deny it. The Jehovah’s Witnesses, for example, believe Jesus was created by the Father billions of years ago as the Archangel Michael and is hence a "lesser god" than the Father. The Mormons say Jesus was born as the first and greatest spirit child of the Heavenly Father and heavenly mother, and was the spirit-brother of Lucifer. New Agers claim Jesus was an enlightened master. Unitarian Universalists say Jesus was just a good moral teacher. What is the truth about Jesus Christ? We turn to the Scriptures for the answer.

https://answersingenesis.org/jesus-christ/jesus-is-god/is-jesus-god/

Thsuperiorman:
NO! Because you are begging the question. The question assumes that God exists and there is no single proof that God exists neither is there any good and reasonable reason to believe it exists or existed. So, Jesus cannot be God because God doesn't exist (I mean the Christian God. God means a lot of things to different people). If Chris Angel came in the name of God I'm sure you people would have called him a reincarnation of some prophet or something like that. But he didn't and you call he's stunts "Magic" but when Jesus does it, it's called "Miracles."

Jesus is not God because
God does not exist



You call them "false" religions because they don't believe that Jesus is God but, you fail to consider the fact that CHRISTians too just "BELIVE" that Jesus is God. What makes the CHRISTians' belief any less made up than the other beliefs that you call false just because they don't believe in what you believe? If the score word is belief, I don't think we have the right to label any belief true or false. The only things that could tell are history and science (because they are based on facts (objectivity) not beliefs (subjectivity) but, I'm not going into that.

OLAADEGBU:
Jesus Possesses the Attributes of God
Jesus possesses attributes that belong only to God.

Jesus is eternal. John 1:1 affirms: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” The word was in this verse is an imperfect tense, indicating continuous, ongoing existence. When the timespace universe came into being, Christ already existed (Hebrews 1:8–11).

Jesus is self-existent. As the Creator of all things (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:2), Christ himself must be uncreated. Colossians 1:17 tells us that Christ is “before all things, and in Him all things consist.”

Jesus is everywhere-present. Christ promised His disciples, “Where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them” (Matthew 18:20). Since people all over the world gather in Christ’s name, the only way He could be present with them all is if He is truly omnipresent (see Matthew 28:20; Ephesians 1:23, 4:10; Colossians 3:11).

Jesus is all-knowing. Jesus knew where the fish were in the water (Luke 5:4, 6; John 21:6–11), and He knew just which fish contained the coin (Matthew 17:27). He knew the future (John 11:11, 18:4), specific details that would be encountered (Matthew 21:2–4), and knew from a distance that Lazarus had died (John 11:14). He also knows the Father as the Father knows Him (Matthew 11:27; John 7:29, 8:55, 10:15, 17:25).

Jesus is all-powerful. Christ created the entire universe (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:2) and sustains the universe by His own power (Colossians 1:17; Hebrews 1:3). During His earthly ministry, He exercised power over nature (Luke 8:25), physical diseases (Mark 1:29–31), demonic spirits (Mark 1:32–34), and even death (John 11:1–44).

Jesus is sovereign. Christ presently sits at the right hand of God the Father, “angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him” (1 Peter 3:22). When Christ comes again in glory, He will be adorned with a majestic robe, and on the thigh section of the robe will be the words, “KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS” (Revelation 19:16).

Jesus is sinless. Jesus challenged Jewish leaders: “Which of you convicts Me of sin?” (John 8:46). The apostle Paul referred to Jesus as “Him who knew no sin” (2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus is one who “loved righteousness and hated lawlessness” (Hebrews 1:9), was “without sin” (Hebrews 4:15), and was “holy, harmless, [and] undefiled” (Hebrews 7:26).

Source: https://answersingenesis.org/jesus-christ/jesus-is-god/is-jesus-god/

OLAADEGBU:
I have the physical evidence of God's existence by the use of my 5 senses. When I look at a building, how do I know that there was a builder? I couldn't want a better evidence that there was a builder than to have the building in front of me. I don't even need faith to know that there was a builder. All I need are eyes that can see and a brain that can think.

The same principle applies to the existence of God. When I look at creation, how can I know that there was a Creator? Creation reveals to me that there is a Creator. I couldn't want a better evidence that there is a Creator than to have the creation in front of me. I don't need faith to believe in a Creator, all I need are eyes that can see and a brain that can think.

"For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse" (Romans 1:20).

But if I want the builder to do something for me, then I need to have faith in the builder.

"Without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him" (Hebrews 11:6).

dolphinheart:
Jesus is eternal.
"In the beginning was the Word."

These words does not prove that jesus did not have a beggining , but proves that jesus had a beginning, just like the earth and heavens in genesis 1:1: "in the beginning , God created the heavens and earth.

Was jesus created (born)?

Colossians 1:15 " He is the IMAGE of the invisible God, THE .FIRSTBORN OF ALL
CREATION"

Rev 3:14 ".....the beginning of God's creation"


Col. 1:15, 16, RS: “He [Jesus Christ] is the image of the invisible God, the first- born of all creation; for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth.”


In what sense is Jesus Christ “the first- born of all creation”?


(1) Trinitarians say that “first-born” here means prime, most excellent, most distinguished; thus Christ would be understood to be, not part of creation, but the most distinguished in relation to those who were created. If that is so, and if the Trinity doctrine is true, why are the Father and the holy spirit not also said to be the firstborn of all creation? But the Bible applies this expression only to the Son. According to the customary meaning of “firstborn,” it indicates that Jesus is the eldest in Jehovah’s family of sons.


(2) Before Colossians 1:15, the expression “the firstborn of” occurs upwards of 30 times in the Bible, and in each instance that it is applied to living creatures the same meaning applies— the firstborn is part of the group.


“Thefirstborn of Israel” is one of the sons of Israel;

“the firstborn of Pharaoh” is one of Pharaoh’s family;

“the firstborn of beast” are themselves animals.

What, then, causes some to ascribe a different meaning to it at Colossians 1:15? Is it Bible usage or is it a belief to which they already hold and for which they seek proof?


Also read proverbs 8:20-31, it gives us a better understanding about who jesus was.


Hebrews 1:8:

RS reads: “Of the Son he says, ‘Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever.’” (KJ, NE, TEV, Dy, JB, NAB have similar renderings.)
However, some other translation reads: “But with reference to the Son: ‘God is your throne forever and ever.’” (AT, Mo, TC,and NWT By convey the same idea.)

Which rendering is harmonious with the context? The preceding verses say that
God is speaking, not that he is being addressed; and the following verse uses the expression “God, thy God,” showing that the one addressed is not the Most High God but is a worshiper of that God.
Hebrews 1:8 quotes from Psalm 45:6, which originally was addressed to a human king of Israel.
Obviously, the Bible writer of this psalm did not think that this human king was Almighty God.

Rather, Psalm 45:6, in RS, reads “Your divine throne.” (NE says, “Your throne is like God’s throne.” JP [verse 7]: “Thy throne given of God.”)
Solomon, who was possibly the king originally addressed in Psalm 45, was said to sit “upon Jehovah’s throne.” (1 Chron. 29:23, )
In harmony with the fact that God is the “throne,” or Source and Upholder of Christ’s kingship, Daniel 7:13, 14 and Luke 1:32 show that God confers such authority on him.


Hebrews 1:8, 9 quotes from Psalm 45:6, 7, concerning which the Bible scholar B. F. Westcott states: “The LXX. admits of two renderings: [ho the·os′] can be taken as a vocative in both cases (Thy throne, O God, . . . therefore, O God, Thy God . . . ) or it can be taken as the subject (or the predicate) in the first case (God is Thy throne, or Thy throne is God . . . ), and in apposition to [ho the·os′ sou] in the second case (Therefore God, even Thy God . . . ). . . . It is scarcely possible that [’Elo·him′] in the original can be addressed to the king. The presumption therefore is against the belief that [ho the·os′] is a vocative in the LXX. Thus on the whole it seems best to adopt in the first clause the rendering: God is Thy throne (or, Thy throne is God), that is ‘Thy kingdom is founded upon God, the immovable Rock.’”—The Epistle to the Hebrews (London, 1889), pp. 25, 26.


Why does Hebrews 1:10-12 quote Psalm 102:25-27 and apply it to the Son, when the psalm says that it is addressed to God? Because the Son is the one through whom God performed the creative works there described by the psalmist. (See Colossians 1:15, 16; Proverbs 8:22, 27-30.) It should be observed in Hebrews 1:5b that a quotation is made from 2 Samuel 7:14 and applied to the Son of God. Although that text had its first application to Solomon, the later application of it to Jesus Christ does not mean that Solomon and Jesus are the same.
Jesus is “greater than Solomon” and carries out a work foreshadowed by
Solomon.— Luke 11:31.

Thsuperiorman:
You see nature and create a creator in your brain. Hmm... How illogically convenient. And then you quote some old lazy-thinking ignorant men of the past, hoping to impress me or make a point from another faith-driven unlikely theory.

Considering you haven't seen God before and then you say you don't need faith to believe in it makes me wonder if you know the meaning of faith at all. It is a strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.

You claim to use your brain but all you could come up with is a bifurcation fallacy as proof for the existence of God.

To prove it's a bifurcation let me give you more possibilities of the world's origin.

1. The world has always existed
2. The world is about 4.5 billion years old and has been evolving since then through process of natural selection, mutation, adaptation etc.

(There might be more but, for argument sake I present those two)

Off the record, I think those two possibilities are far more likely to be the origin of the world than an intelligent designer or creator or whatever you call it.

And for your information, you only proved to me you have five senses and they work... you didn't do anything remotely close to providing a proof for the existence of God.

OLAADEGBU:
Here some pertinent questions for you JW's to ponder on as to the nature of our Lord Jesus Christ:

"You are my witnesses, says the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that you may know and believe  me, and understand that I am He: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me.  I, even I, am the LORD; and beside Me there is no saviour," (Isaiah 43:10,11).

Is God the Saviour of the world?

If you study this verse I quoted above objectively, you will discover the following:
 
There always has been and always will be only one true God.

There is no Saviour of the world except for this one true God.

Therefore, the Saviour of the world must be the one true God.

This leads to another question:

Is Jesus the Saviour of the world?

I do not think that anyone who has read the New Testament would dispute this.  Even your favourite version of the Bible refers to Jesus as the Saviour: "and of the Saviour of us, Christ Jesus" --Titus 2:13.

Therefore, since:

The one true God is the only Saviour of the world (Isaiah 43:10,11), and

Jesus is the Saviour of the world (Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1),

Jesus must therefore be the one true God.

To deny that Jesus is the one true God, one would either have to deny that Jesus is the Saviour, or say that God is lying to us in Isaiah 43:11.  Neither alternative fits with Scripture.

Does Titus 2:13 teach that Jesus is God our Saviour?

In Titus 2:13 it states the following:

"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify to Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."

Paul is here through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit stating clearly that it is Jesus who is our great God and Saviour unless you are disputing this fact.

OLAADEGBU:
Jesus is the Almighty God our Saviour!

OLAADEGBU:
Jesus is the Almighty God our Saviour!

CAPTIVATOR:
This doctrine let us realize that Jesus Christ was an hypocrite and a mere pretender .... Who pretends to pray to God, whereas he was that same God !!!

We understand that the Father has always been immortal ( hab 12:2) and hence could not die ....... Hence Jesus a part of him accordin to this doctrine could not Die , This let us realize that the apostles ar all false witnesses by declaring the death and ressurection of somone who cannot die !!!

CANTICLES:
Course Code: CRE 211 .........
Course Title: CREATION

Nobody is created BY EVOLUTION

You and I are part of the creation BY GOD, though not d beginning

But " [Jesus] is the beginning of the creation BY GOD" rev 3:14


Reference to col 1:15 !

"Firstborn OF ISREAL" is a part of Isreal ( 1chro 5:1)

" Firstborn OF PHARAOH" is a part of pharaohs family ( Ex 5:11)

" Firstborn OF LIVESTOCK" is also a livestock ( Ex 5:11)

" Firstborn OF CREATION" is a part of creation ( Col 1:15)

Jesus has a God whom he obeys and does his will ( John 20:17)

Jesus has a God who gave him everything he has ( 1 cor 15: 27)

Jesus has a God whom he cannot control ( 1 Cor 15:27)

Jesus Has a God under whom he will subject himself forever ( 1cor 15:28)!!!

OLAADEGBU:
When did Jesus begin to exist?

CAPTIVATOR:
This doctrine falsely accuse that Jesus was an hypocrite and pretender ... Who pretends to address God in prayer, whereas he was that same God !!! . A great display of hypocrisy .

This doctrine falsely accuse Jesus as liar who came to do the will of himself yet always claim its the will of his father ! . And claim someone sent him, whereas he sent himself !!!

God is imortal and could not die ..... This doctrine shows that the apostles are all fake for declarin the death and ressurection of someone who cant die.

This doctrine gave Mary the status of the " Mother of God"
!!! Whereas she was mother of the "son of the Most High" Luk 1:35, NOT the most high himself

Contrary to public opinion:

CREATION gave birth to Jesus as its firstborn - Col 1:15 ! And this was done by the God and Father of Jesus christ ! Rev 3:14 !!!
....... Whom Jesus will obey and be subjected under FOREVER ( 1 COR 15:24-28)

OLAADEGBU:
Let me reiterate my question. When did Jesus come into existence?

CAPTIVATOR:
Jesus came into existence when the God and Father of Jesus Christ Created his son (Jesus) as the beginning of his CREATION - Rev 3:14 !!!

CAPTIVATOR:
This doctrine falsely accuse that Jesus was an hypocrite and pretender ... Who pretends to address God in prayer, whereas he was that same God !!! . A great display of hypocrisy .

This doctrine falsely accuse Jesus as liar who came to do the will of himself yet always claim its the will of his father ! . And claim someone sent him, whereas he sent himself !!!

God is imortal and could not die ..... This doctrine shows that the apostles are all fake for declarin the death and ressurection of someone who cant die.

This doctrine gave Mary the status of the " Mother of God"
!!! Whereas she was mother of the "son of the Most High" Luk 1:35, NOT the most high himself

Contrary to public opinion:

CREATION gave birth to Jesus as its firstborn - Col 1:15 ! And this was done by the God and Father of Jesus christ ! Rev 3:14 !!!
....... Whom Jesus will obey and be subjected under FOREVER ( 1 COR 15:24-28)

OLAADEGBU:
All your ramblings did not solve any question. Let me take you up on Colossian 1:15 that is bolded above, even though your colleagues have failed to answer this same question.

"Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones or dominions or principalities or powers:  all things were created by him, and for him. And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.."  (Colossians 1:12-17).

Now let's focus on Colossians 1:15:

Does Colossians 1:15 highligted above teach that Jesus was created?

You will see here that Jesus is called the "first-born" of all creation.   The term "first-born" here does not imply "first-created" those two words mean two different things.   

You can see from the following points that Paul was not teaching that Jesus was created and he was definitely not saying that He was the firstborn of all creation: 

Birth and creation are not equivalent terms.  For example, the Bible teaches that Jesus was born of a virgin, but this does not mean that Jesus was created the day He was born of Virgin Mary and since birth and creation happen at different times, they cannot mean the same thing.

There are two different Greek words for "first-born" and "first-created" and Paul used the word which means "first-born" not "first-created"

Paul was not teaching that Jesus Christ is a created being because he further taught that Jesus Christ was really the Creator of all things.  If all things were created by Christ, He  cannot be created, otherwise there is something that Christ did not create and this verse would be in error when it states that Christ created all things.

Hebrews 1:10 and John 1:3 confirms that:

The Lord Jesus Christ is the Creator of everything that has been created and thus He must not be created, but God.

What does the title "first-born" mean?

Read what reputable Bible scholars say:

"This title refers to Christ's preeminent position and sovereignty over creation, not that He Himself is a part of creation.  In the Old Testament, the first-born had certain rights and a certain status, such as preeminence, a double share of the inheritance, the right of the priesthood, and supremacy.  And it can be distinctly seen from Genesis 49:3 that the meaning "priority of birth" or in "in time" has been overshadowed and even sometimes lost to the implication of the term meaning "supremacy" or "preeminence."  In other words, one does not have to have been "born first" to be called "first-born" because the term's primary meaning came to be "preeminence" and "supremacy," sometimes with nothing to do about birth."

When Paul calls Jesus the first-born, He is saying that Jesus has all the rights of the first-born and that He has the first-born status of supremacy and preeminence.  When Paul adds that He is the first-born of all creation, He is merely specifying what Christ's preeminence (i.e., His first-born status) applies to -- namely, all creation.

Furthermore, this passage clearly teaches Christ's deity.  Since the Uncreated Creator alone created all things (Isaiah 44:24; Hebrews 3:4), and Colossians tells us that Christ is the Creator, we can then conclude that Jesus is the Uncreated Creator.

Other Bible scholars have demonstrated that the word "born" does not mean to be "created" when we look at it from Jesus' title "Son of God."  Don't misconstrue this to mean that Jesus Christ must have come into existence at some point and that He is less than God, thinking that He is the Son of God, and not God, in just the same way that a human son comes into existence after their human father.  This might sound plausible at first, but upon proper observation it becomes clear that this cannot be the case. The Bible is very clear in defining the title Son of God" to mean that Jesus is of the same nature as God, just like a child is of the same nature as their parent.  And if Jesus Christ has God's nature, then He is, by definition, God, and therefore without a beginning.

OLAADEGBU:
If you had read my post earlier you wouldn't be using this old and tired argument.

OLAADEGBU:
I have the physical evidence of God's existence by the use of my 5 senses. When I look at a building, how do I know that there was a builder? I couldn't want a better evidence that there was a builder than to have the building in front of me. I don't even need faith to know that there was a builder. All I need are eyes that can see and a brain that can think.

The same principle applies to the existence of God. When I look at creation, how can I know that there was a Creator? Creation reveals to me that there is a Creator. I couldn't want a better evidence that there is a Creator than to have the creation in front of me. I don't need faith to believe in a Creator, all I need are eyes that can see and a brain that can think.

"For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse" (Romans 1:20).

But if I want the builder to do something for me, then I need to have faith in the builder.

"Without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him" (Hebrews 11:6).

CAPTIVATOR:
!

Ur article CANT explain the creation aspect .... Am laughing in indian , " when paul says creation ... He was alludin to the fact that christ firborn status applies to namely all creation" !! Does this make sense ?? Or didnt u open ur eyes and see that it was actually sayin Christ firstborn applly to all creation !!! It apply to us too .....Rubbish article
!
Adam is called "son of God" ( Luk 3:38) ! Doesnt mean he doesnt have a beginning .

Angels are called "sons of God"(Job 38:4-7)! Doesnt mean they ar God or dont have a beginning! Rubbish article.

Open ur eyes ... " firstborn of CREATION" !!! What is creation doing in that statement if he wasnt part of creation ?? If You are not part of isreal, u cant be called " firstborn of Isreal"!!! ... So Why Is D Firstborn Of Creation NOT part of creation !!!! Creation gave birth to Christ as firstborn - Col 1:15 !

johnydon22:
Bravo! i must commend you for getting the evidence through ur senses physically that a creator created the earth... now the question is Why then do you think it was yahweh the creator according to the jews and not chukwuokike/ezechitoke according to the igbos or zeus according to the greeks or jupitar according to the romans or even egyptians osiris... so why then do you dismiss all this possible creators

OLAADEGBU:
Here is the evidence that Jesus is Yahweh who created all things.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

The simple logic of this verse can be summed up as thus:

THE WORD = GOD

In John 1:14 it states:

"The Word became flesh, and dwelt among us."

From these verses we can deduce the following:

JESUS = THE WORD

If A = B and

B = C then

A = C.

Then,

JESUS = THE WORD and

THE WORD = GOD,

therefore:

JESUS = GOD QED

OLAADEGBU:
Playing ignorant of the existence of God is no excuse. With the use of our brains we can use science and logic to know that there had to be a Creator God. You postulated that the universe has always existed but I will say that there are three possibilities from where the universe can come from. By way of elimination we will arrive at the scientific evidence of the origin of the universe as is explained below.

(1). The universe created itself; or

(2). The universe has always existed, or

(3). The universe was created.

1. The universe created itself:

Can something create itself? Can nothing create something? The answer to these is an absolute No. We all know that something cannot create itself and nothing can't create something. From Latin we have the phrase "ex nihilo, nihil fit" meaning "from nothing, nothing comes." It also violates the law of cause and effect, that says for every effect there must be a cause. The effect can't be greater than the cause and nothing cannot be greater than something. Therefore, based on the laws of science and logic, the universe couldn't have created itself. That leaves us with options 2 and 3.

OLAADEGBU:
2. The univese has always existed:

Lets go to the 2nd law of thermodynamics that basically teaches that "the whole universe is losing usable energy for doing usable work." This means that the usable energy in this universe is wearing down. The universe as a whole is losing energy. In other words, molecules as a whole are slowing down.

Therefore, if this universe was eternal we will be in what is called a "virtual heat death." This means that there will be virtually no molecular movement. Everything would have lost its available heat energy for doing work. Therefore, the universe cannot be eternal, it must have had a beginning. The theory that the universe has always existed or is eternal has to be false based on the law of science and logic, another speculation gone with the air. This leaves us with only one possibility based on science. Which is that:

OLAADEGBU:
3. The universe was created:

"In the Beginning God created the heaven and the earth." -- Genesis 1:1

Instead of going the intellectual way you could have just read and believed Genesis 1:1. If you need something from this Creator God then you must accept Him as your redeemer and repent from your sins only after this will you begin to have a personal relationship with your Creator an d redeemer.

OLAADEGBU:
"In the Beginning God created the heaven and the earth." -- Genesis 1:1

OLAADEGBU:
Instead of going the intellectual way you could have just read and believed Genesis 1:1. If you need something from this Creator God then you must accept Him as your redeemer and repent from your sins only after this will you begin to have a personal relationship with your Creator an d redeemer.

OLAADEGBU:
Here is the evidence that Jesus is Yahweh who created all things.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

The simple logic of this verse can be summed up as thus:

THE WORD = GOD

In John 1:14 it states:

"The Word became flesh, and dwelt among us."

From these verses we can deduce the following:

JESUS = THE WORD

If A = B and

B = C then

A = C.

Then,

JESUS = THE WORD and

THE WORD = GOD,

therefore:

JESUS = GOD QED

OLAADEGBU:
Jesus Christ was not created but is the Creator (Colossians 1:16; John 1:3). If you really read and understood my post you would have realised that the term firstborn, when defined biblically, actually means that Jesus Christ is "first in rank" and "preeminent" over the creation that He brought into being.

OLAADEGBU:
Are you also admitting that the allegations against your group as said in the OP are true?

Christmasdon:
.are you madt? JESUS IS GOD.