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| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by Syncan(m): 8:43am On Nov 28, 2014 |
Freksy: Hahahaha, see story. You said it was changed in the 4th century CE abi? Yet Tertullian (160-225) quoted it in (adv. Praxeam 25), abeg check that period, did it look like 4th century? What about St. Cyprain of Africa(?-258), he was already using it to preach as noted in (Jubaianum, Ep, 73). Keep peddling unfounded stories. Do you even know where the first set of books were canonized? In Africa! So oga Fresky, African Fathers and writers from the earliest date in favor of the genuineness of verse 7 is of the utmost importance, as it proves that these words were found in the early African Latin Version of the Vulgate, in existence before the days of Tertullian, who quotes from it. Now, this early African Latin Version represents a Greek manuscript, from which the version was made, of an earlier date than any Greek manuscript of the Scripture now extant. Those who were present and decided what is scripture and what is not in the fourth century, all were quoting it as part of scripture without objection, Augustine, Jerome, Bonaventure, Cyril etc. Now you come in the later part of the teen century to dispute them from recopied works. It's like copying from the person who copied from the person that copied from who copied from the one that copied from the teacher, and you use it as a yardstick...smh. Imagine thomas Howe (2008), talking of erasmus under pressure in 1522, mtchew. Just imagine your pick and join analogy of the spirit,water and blood. Look at the struggle to make a sense of how they relate, appearing at different times, when everything was laid bare on the cross, no wonder St. Peter said in 2Pet3:15 "....in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction". No wonder indeed. 1John 5:7 : there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit. And these three are one. Jesus the son of God is really God. God said so. Heb 1:8 |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by Syncan(m): 9:07am On Nov 28, 2014 |
zyzxx: Hmm...a good try, just that this example is limited to what the eye can see, and each time it's done this way, there's always objections and misconceptions, but a good try anyway. Just a friendly chat from me to you...Imagine before you wrote this piece here(about teller), you already formed an Idea/illustration, that Idea/illustration now exists...(though in your mind, but it now exists), now you can give that illustration words, note that words first of all form inside you, and even after you've expressed it externally, it still remains with you, you don't lose it because you've expressed it. I am just trying to show how things can exist without being picked up by eyes or ears, yet they exist. What if instead of the teller, you form an idea, about yourself, who you are, your identity, and give it words, that idea of you now exists....if I no de make sense, just forget am jare. |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by zyzxx(m): 9:32am On Nov 28, 2014 |
Syncan:  u are making sense sir,1. I explained trinity wit what we can see because some people find it hard to understand is spiritually. 2. I don't get what u are trying to say very well, or do u mean I should explain trinity using myself as an example? If so let me do dat. human beign are consist of three identities Body, spirit, and soul. the soul reside in both d body and spirit ( same soul in our body, is d same soul in our spirit wen we dream. Spiritually, d herberlist av the power to hurt d 3's by just invoke one, maybe d spirit. And it will affect d 3 because they are inseparable. I think I will stop here sir. |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by Kei144(m): 10:01am On Nov 28, 2014 |
Syncan: All the people you mentioned in your post were gentiles. Ro. 11:17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, Ro. 11:18 do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. It is never given to gentiles to propound doctrines, in the name of receiving new revelation. The "nourishing sap" (revelation of God's word) can only come from the root (Jews). When gentiles began to form new doctrines, they began to pollute Christianity. The pollution has continued till today. Arab gentiles even went as far as forming a new religion, which has been a disaster to the world. https://www.nairaland.com/1857130/romans-threw-true-christianity-lions |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by CANTICLES: 10:35am On Nov 28, 2014 |
Syncan Post=28410372: Moses the meekest man on earth is really God. God said so ( Exodus 7:1) The vital point is: Whom did the Bible refer to as " THE ONLY TRUE GOD" ?? |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by Kei144(m): 11:19am On Nov 28, 2014 |
CANTICLES: Jn. 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by Syncan(m): 12:13pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
zyzxx: It's ok, the first and foremost is let them "believe in what is revealed", then understanding will come, for what has been revealed may sound to some as foolishenss 1cor.1:22-23. No I didn't require you to illustrate using yourself, just wanted you to replace the teller with yourself, form an idea about who you are. Let's say you are a great artist told to paint yourself, first you have to form an idea about how you look, this is what you put down on canvass, the more closer your opinion of you is to the real you, the more perfect the picture of you is. Now that perfect picture of you, which you've painted, was first of all formed in your mind. What if in that your mind, you start adding all the qualities and characters that make up who you are, you'll form a perfect you in your mind,and in your mind you exclaim (word) "zyzxx". That idea of you(zyzxx) which you've called (word) zyzxx, is with you (zyzxx) from the time you thought about it(probably from when you started reasoning). I can safely say then that "at his age of reasoning was his Idea of himself,that Idea of himself was with him. If it is an Idea of yourself, then you must call (word) it in your mind zyzxx. Then I can as well say of you, "At the age of reasoning, was the word(spoken in his mind), the word was with him (from his age of reasoning), ...now what is the word..., the word was zyzxx Imagine if you are like God whose own Idea of himself had no beginning. In the beginning was the word, the word was with God,...now what was the word God called the idea of himself...the word was God. Jn1:1, Heb 1:8. Just like one characteristic of your word is sound, even when you don't speak out, words in you can make huge noise within you, a characteristics of God's word is Life, so even when it is not spoken, it is alive within God. When It comes out, it gives life...eg creation genesis. So unlike your own Idea, God's own Idea(in this case a realization, because it is exact) of himself was alive...from the very beginning. When Ideas are made visible, they are called the brain-child of the source person, not so? Because you have a body with parts, so the intellect...housed in the brain... is made specific, as the part of you that gave birth to the Idea. What if you don't have a body? What if you are only intellect? Aha you see. Will it still be brain-child ? No, it will be just child, sometimes you hear people saying, "this idea of mine was a child of circumstance". It means "I gave birth to this idea due to circumstances surrounding me at the time". So using this and using the language of scripture (masculine), Same realization of Himself, which He had called himself (God), can in terms of distinguishing him from the source, be called "Son of (the Source)God". This is seen in so many places in scripture. If that You can put that Idea of your self into a robot (the word took flesh), it will be another you, but this time in another form...the robotic form...If your idea of you is perfect, then it is exactly who you are, then nothing that you in the robot does, will be different from what you (source) wills to be done. (I and the father are one....if you see me you have seen the father) Hahahaha bros, Na just chat I de chat wih you sha. Trinity no be moi moi, but God has revealed, it is true. 2 Likes |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by Syncan(m): 12:15pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
CANTICLES: Stop talking nonsense. God knows when to use god and God in sentences. |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by Syncan(m): 12:21pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
Kei144: Hahahahaha, Which one is new revelations? We are talking 1John 5:7 here, this guy is funny walahi. |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by CANTICLES: 12:59pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
Syncan: haba! Exodus 7:1 American Standard Version " And Jehovah said unto Moses 'see I have made thee as God" Exodus 7:1 New American Standard Bible " Then the LORD said to Moses ' See , I have make you as God" Exodus 7:1 International Standard Version " The LORD told Moses " Listen, have positioned you as God" Exodus 7:1 Darby Bible Translation " And Jehovah said to Moses, See I have made thee God" The Question Again: Whom Did The Bible Or Whom Did Jesus Refer To As The " ONLY TRUE GOD" ? 1 Like |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by Syncan(m): 1:23pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
CANTICLES: Chai... Ex7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. KJV These your modern alterations in the name of translating Scripture will compound your problems, even from your own posts, you see the use of "as" and some use "like". Just take a look at that one you wrote last, the one you called "Darby bible" that used jehova, did you see how cunningly the "as" or "like" had been made to disappear? hahahahaha, I no blame una, first you tell a lie, then you seek to cover it, hahahaha. Here God use the verb "to make"... |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by dolphinheart(m): 1:27pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
Syncan: Since the op has refused to comment on ur view on trinity , ill take it that he has accepted ur view. Here is what the noble say about the true God that we are to worship. Duet 6:4 New International Version Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. New Living Translation "Listen, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD alone. English Standard Version “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. New American Standard Bible "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one! King James Bible Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD Holman Christian Standard Bible Listen, Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is One. International Standard Version "Listen, Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD alone. NET Bible Listen, Israel: The LORD is our God, the LORD is one! Jubilee Bible 2000 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD. American Standard Version Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah: Darby Bible Translation Hear, Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah; English Revised Version Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God is one LORD: World English Bible Hear, Israel: Yahweh is our God; Yahweh is one: Young's Literal Translation Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah; Jehovah /yahweh is our God and he is the God we worship. here the bible helps us to understand that he is one God and one God ALONE. This statement was made in the bible because as at that time trinity gods have been rampant among pagan religions and doctrines around the isrealites and jehovah wanted them to know that he is not a trinity and only him alone is their God . Jesus reminded us about these when he came to earth in John 17 verses 1-3 which states thus: Jesus spoke these things, and raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son so that your son may glorify you, 2. just as you have given him authority over all flesh, so that he may give everlasting life to all those whom you have given to him. 3 This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ. Other bible translations render verse 3 thus : New International Version Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. New Living Translation And this is the way to have eternal life--to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth. English Standard Version And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. New American Standard Bible "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. King James Bible And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Here jesus is stating that the father is the only true God and not a trinity or 3 in 1 or 1 in 3. But rather he is simply one jehovah(father), and that the father sent him . The father did not send himself , but he sent jesus (for god so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son ). This is what the father(jehovah) said to Moses to show u that it is not him or part of him that is coming as jesus :deut 18:18 King James Bible I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. This fact is further made by apostle paul when he stated in 1 corinth 8 verse 5,6 which states thus: 1 Cor. 8:5, 6, RS: “Although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth —as indeed there are many ‘gods’ and many ‘lords’—yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.” Paul statements presents the Father as the “one God” of Christians and as being in a class distinct from Jesus Christ. Even peter helps us to understand more about who the real god is as distinct from Jesus Christ.) 1 Pet. 1:3: New American Standard Bible Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead King James Bible Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead Repeatedly, even following Jesus’ ascension to heaven, the Scriptures refer to the Father as “the God” of Jesus Christ. At John 20:17, following Jesus’ resurrection, he himself spoke of the Father as “my God.” Later, when in heaven, as recorded at Revelation 3:12, he again used the same expression. BUT NEVER IN THE BIBLE IS THE FATHER REPORTED TO REFER TO THE SON AS "MY GOD” nor does either the Father or the Son refer to the holy spirit as “my God.” |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by CANTICLES: 1:33pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
Syncan:forget ur kjv .... The same only translation dat contains a spurious text in 1joh 5:7 ! !!! I cant even stop laughin when i read texts like psalm 110:1 wich says : The LORD said to my Lord !!! The lord said to my lord ..... I dont even know why they replace d divine name with " LORD" only to come out with absurd text as dis !!! B4 i forget ... Once again , i ask , so far there are many God's and gods in heaven and earth! WHOM DID THE BIBLE OR WHOM DID JESUS QUALIFIES AS "THE ONLY TRUE GOD" ?? |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by Syncan(m): 1:40pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
dolphinheart: Stop copy and paste, you can read it, make sense of it and write what you mean, I doubt if you made sense of what you posted. Anyway see below: Make I join una for copying and pasting many bibles for this one. TITUS 2:13 New International Version while we wait for the blessed hope--the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, New Living Translation while we look forward with hope to that wonderful day when the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, will be revealed. English Standard Version waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, New American Standard Bible looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, King James Bible Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Holman Christian Standard Bible while we wait for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. Jesus is God. |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by Syncan(m): 1:51pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
CANTICLES: Ok, I should forget KJV, shebi una de hear am. Ok Let me bring other ones for this time: New International Version Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet. New Living Translation Then the LORD said to Moses, "Pay close attention to this. I will make you seem like God to Pharaoh, and your brother, Aaron, will be your prophet. English Standard Version And the LORD said to Moses, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron shall be your prophet. New American Standard Bible Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I make you as God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron shall be your prophet. Holman Christian Standard Bible The LORD answered Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother will be your prophet. |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by CANTICLES: 2:03pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
Syncan:Thanks for ur time .... Since some say "god" and others " God" !!! Keep in mind that all have d hebrew word " Elohim" ! So its left for the translators to use d context in determining if its "god" or " God" !!! But the question remains : Whom Did The Bible Or Jesus Refer To As The "ONLY TRUE GOD" ?? Bcoz our everlastin life depends on the knowledge of this person! So whom did the bible or Whom Did Jesus refer to as " THE ONLY TRUE GOD" ?? |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by Syncan(m): 2:33pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
CANTICLES: Hahahaha, now KJV may be right after all abi? No sir, it is not left for translators to determine, the import is not lost, even those that put "God" made sure they have the qualifier "Like" or in some cases "as" in front of it, you should not be confused about this if not mischief. Now on the matter of Only true God bla bla bla, wey I no go rest, listen let me tell you what someone wrote as early as (235 AD) Novatian (you fit google am) "If Christ was only man, why did he lay down for us such a rule of believing as that in which he said, ‘And this is life eternal, that they should know you, the only and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent?’ [John 17:3]. Had he not wished that he also should be understood to be God, why did he add, ‘And Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent,’ except because he wished to be received as God also? Because if he had not wished to be understood to be God, he would have added, ‘And the man Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent;’ but, in fact, he neither added this, nor did Christ deliver himself to us as man only, but associated himself with God, as he wished to be understood by this conjunction to be God also, as he is. We must therefore believe, according to the rule prescribed, on the Lord, the one true God, and consequently on him whom he has sent, Jesus Christ, who by no means, as we have said, would have linked himself to the Father had he not wished to be understood to be God also. For he would have separated himself from him had he not wished to be understood to be God" (Treatise on the Trinity 16 [A.D. 235]). Na small small I de come out. Jesus Is God. |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by dolphinheart(m): 2:35pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
Syncan: The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299. In The Encyclopedia Americana we read: “Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian [believing that God is one person]. The road which led from Jerusalem to Nicea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.”— (1956), Vol. XXVII, p. 294L . According to the Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel, “The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher’s [Plato, fourth century B.C.E.] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions.”—(Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467. John L. McKenzie, S.J., in his Dictionary of the Bible, says: “The trinity of persons within the unity of nature is defined in terms of ‘person’ and ‘nature’ which are G[ree]k philosophical terms; actually the terms do not appear in the Bible. The trinitarian definitions arose as the result of long controversies in which these terms and others such as ‘essence’ and ‘substance’ were erroneously applied to God by some theologians.”—(New York, 1965), p. 899. Even though, as Trinitarians acknowledge, neither the word “Trinity” nor a statement of the Trinitarian dogma is found in the Bible, are the concepts that are embodied in that dogma found there? Karl Rahner, S.J., admits: “Θεός [God] is still never used of the Spirit,” and: “ὁ θεός [literally, the God] is never used in the New Testament to speak of the πνεῦμα ἅγιον [holy spirit].”— (Baltimore, Md.; 1961), translated from German, Vol. I, pp. 138, 143. 1 John 5:7, 8: KJ reads: “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.” (Dy also includes this Trinitarian passage.) However, some translations does not include the words “in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth.” (RS, NE, TEV, JB, NAB also leave out the Trinitarian passage.) Regarding this Trinitarian passage, textual critic F. H. A. Scrivener wrote: “We need not hesitate to declare our conviction that the disputed words were not written by St. John: that they were originally brought into. Latin copies in Africa from the margin, where they had been placed as a pious and orthodox gloss on ver. 1Jo 5:8: that from the Latin they crept into two or three late Greek codices, and thence into the printed Greek text, a place to which they had no rightful claim.”—A Plain Introduction to the Criticism of the New Testament (Cambridge, 1883, third ed.), p. 654. Jesus said: “For the sake of your tradition, you have made void the word of God. You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said: ‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’” ( Matt. 15:6-9 Regarding the Trinity, the Athanasian Creed (in English) says that its members are “incomprehensible.” Teachers of the doctrine often state that it is a “mystery.” Obviously such a Trinitarian God is not the one that Jesus had in mind when he said: “We worship what we know.” ( John 4:22, RS) Do you really know the God you worship? |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by CANTICLES: 2:46pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
Syncan: C'mon this is not a kindergaten class , " that people may know YOU( 2nd person singular) the only true God" !! To differenite he adds " AND the one whom YOU " sent , Jesus Christ! ...... Its clear that the only true God sent Jesus christ! So who is that true God ?? |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by Kei144(m): 2:47pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
dolphinheart: Great exposition! |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by Syncan(m): 2:58pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
CANTICLES: Did you even read the texts completely? If Jesus ended it there, would there have been a need to differentiate? Hahaha, an idiom goes thus "If there were no trace of equality,the need to measure wouldn't arise". Jesus is a good teacher. Heb1:1-8 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,..... But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom Question: Is Jesus really God? Answer: Yes. |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by Syncan(m): 2:58pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by CANTICLES: 3:13pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
Syncan:u dont even answer my question !!! I understand ur situation But ar u sayin Jehovah the God of Abraham, Isaac And Jacob is d same person called Jesus ?? |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by dolphinheart(m): 3:50pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
Syncan: Sir, why do you say I should stop copy and paste, do u expect me to retype the information I want to pass to you when such information has already been typed and easily accessible.? I dnt think ull expect me to do that. What u read in my post is what I mean, what I understand about the bible and what I believe in . Maybe, not to you , but to me and the majority of others who are seeking the thruth, I do make sense. Please respond to what I posted and not to how I post it. WHO DOES THE BIBLE CALL THE ONLY TRUE GOD? On titus 2:13 and ur submition that jesus is God . Yes, jesus is a god,the bible said he will be called a "mighty god". But jesus is not the father and jesus himself said that the father is greater than he is and he does the fathers will and also that his authority comes from the father. This is because jesus is subordinate to the father for only the father is ever called the "ALMIGHTY GOD". Jesus is as savior through the father cus it was the father that sent him to save us. Jude 25 New International Version to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen. King James Bible To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. majesty, power, and authority, before all time, and now, and for all eternity. Amen. Aramaic Bible in Plain English Before his glory in joy ( He alone is God our Savior by Yeshua The Messiah our Lord ); to him is the praise, dominion, honor and majesty, even now and unto all ages. Amen. . American King James Version To the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. Nowhere in the scripture is jesus called "almighty god " or "one truegod" which is d god we are required to worship. The only name that is mentioned which such title is jehovah/yaweh /father, and jesus specificaly stated that he is none of those three. |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by dolphinheart(m): 3:59pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
Syncan: Sir, this is not a laughing matter. Have u read it? Before jesus came to earth , God prophesied about the womans seed who will eventualy become jesus. Is the father the seed of the woman ? When god told moses that he will sends prophet to the isrealites,and these prophet eventually became jesus, was he telling moses that he will be sending himself? 1 Like |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by Freksy(m): 4:06pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
Syncan: 'Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.' Ps 45:6 KJV 'But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.' Heb 1:8 KJV God also called Solomon God in Pam 45:6. Therefore, both Jesus and king Solomon are almighty God's... you can see what erroneous translations can cause? See most likely correct renderings: ‘but as to the Son “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of integrity is the scepter of his reign’ Heb 1:8 Byington Paul quoted Ps 45:6 God is your throne forever and evermore; the scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of equity. Ps 45:6 Byington The NEB says: “Your throne is like God’s throne.” The NJB gives us: “your throne is from God.” The REB has: “God has enthroned you for all eternity.” The Holy Scriptures (JPS version) says: “Thy throne given of God.” The Bible in Living English (Byington) says: “God is your throne.” New International Reader’s Version (NIRV): “Your throne is the very throne of God.” The Good News Bible (GNB), a very trinitarian paraphrase Bible, renders it: “The kingdom that God has given you will last forever and ever.” ETC...
Freksy exclaimed before Syncan “Jeeesus”! Or, “oooh my God”! Therefore, Syncan is Jesus or God. Thomas did not refer to Jesus as the almighty God. What he did is common today. We exclaim many times with similar expression before others. QUESTION: Why did KJV omitt exclamation mark (!), but some retained it?
Who is that one that made the word flesh? He made himself flesh? If only you can stop, think and reason for seconds, then, in your mind’s eyes you’ll see a being superior to Jesus. Even you can be called a god, as there are many Gods. We have only one almighty God, the father and creator of Jesus. Isaiah prophetically called him 'mighty God'... and so? Angels, kings - humans are gods. You are a god. But who is the almighty God?
God is in what form? Does his form of existence differ from those of other heavenly beings? NO! Paul was talking about equality of form, not of age, wisdom, power… Take it or leave it, you and a day old baby are equal in form (are same flesh), but you are superior in age, wisdom, power… Spirit form is superior to flesh, hence, it required a tremendous amount of humility for Jesus to switch form – from spirit (to flesh to enable him leave as a human on earth), and thus became lower in form than other spirit beings with which he once had equality of form (spirit). He humbly did this without complain. Paul wanted those Christians to learn from Jesus’ example of humility. Go back to the text and benefit from the lesson therein.
Wrong! The Jews took up stones because Jesus claimed to pre-exist Abraham, not because he claimed to be God. He told them that before Abraham came into existence he has been. Meaning, he existed before Abraham…the man the Jews regarded as ‘next to God’. ‘I am’ is neither God’s name nor title. Compare translations and grow in knowledge. Can you mention the number of time ‘I am’ appears in the scripture? I refer to myself with same expression daily. By such usage, am I the almighty God?
‘And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three who bear witness, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and the three agree in one.’ 1John5:7-8 ASV |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by Freksy(m): 4:28pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
zyzxx: Your usage of the auxiliary verb, ‘are’ signifies plurality, TRUE or FALSE? We can only talk of ‘the first one’ when something is more than one, TRUE or FALSE? How many almighty God do we have? Which is correct? 1. The 3 tellers are one 2. The 3 teller’s are one The two duplicates are copies and can be separated, TRUE or FALSE? Zyzxx, you have vividly illustrated to us what over-zealous Trinitarian translators did in the past. The truth is, God’s word, THE TRUTH, cannot and will not be hidden. |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by Syncan(m): 4:36pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
CANTICLES: The problem with you is that you do not listen, or you are too stuffed by adulterated teaching, or you don't have the capacity to understand. Just take a look at John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same(word) was in the beginning with God. All things were made by (the word)him; and without him (word) was not any thing made that was made. Jn1:3 All things were made by (the word)him; and without him (word) was not any thing made that was made. Genesis 1:1: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Ask yourself : Is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the one without whom nothing was made? 1Jn5:7 There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit. And these three are one |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by Syncan(m): 4:58pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
dolphinheart: Please be careful the way you discard evidence, all I have done is show you how God revealed in scriptures that Jesus is God. Look at your own Post, even if you have thrown away Titus 2:13, Jn1:1-3, Heb1:8, it is you that is manufacturing "god" for Jesus, not the scriptures. Let no one deceive you, In Yawheh is the father and the word, Yawheh is the I am formula. This "I am" formula is a reference back to the Divine Name revealed to Moses in Ex. 3:14. Not only does Jesus refer to himself as "I am" four times in John’s Gospel ( John 8:24; 58; 13:19 and 18:5-6), but when he does so in John 8:58, the Jews to whom he was speaking understood his meaning because they immediately wanted to stone him for blasphemy! Jesus is God. |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by Freksy(m): 5:03pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
Syncan: Is Prexeam a Bible translation from which Tertullian quoted? Was Tertullian a bible translator? Your misconceptions are: 1. You think I am talking about the origin of trinity. 2. You think Prexeam is a Bible translation from which Tertullian quoted. You may even think Tertullian was a bible's translator. Teachings about trinity existed long before over-zealous Trinitarian translators twisted the scripture to accommodate it. It first happened in the 4th the century. You can only refute this by presenting bible translation dated back to 3rd century that agrees with KJV rendering of 1John 5:7. You are the one telling me stories and fail to address a point in my post.
You have missed the point! That men wrote religious books on trinity, and preached same in their synagogues, is no proof that trinity had any place in the scripture then. I have told you when the scripture was first stretched to accommodate it. Debunk that with a chapter and verse(s) from translation dated back to the 3rd century. Stop advancing this inherited heresy!
But you in 2014 talk of Tertullian of (160-225)
Lol…but I did that with fitting scriptures.
Hebrews 1:8 quotes from Psalm 45:6, which originally was addressed to a human king of Israel. Obviously, the Bible writer of this psalm did not think that this human king was Almighty God. Rather, Psalm 45:6, in RS, reads “Your divine throne.” (NE says, “Your throne is like God’s throne.” JP [verse 7]: “Thy throne given of God.”) Solomon, who was possibly the king originally addressed in Psalm 45, was said to sit “upon God’s throne.” 1 Chron. 29:23. ‘Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre’. - Ps 45:6 KJV Was solomon the almighty God? ‘But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.– Heb. KJV Nevertheless, there is good evidence that the proper translation of Heb. 1:8 (as well as Ps. 45:6) should be “your throne is God forever” or “God is your throne forever.” ‘but as to the Son “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of integrity is the scepter of his reign’ Heb 1:8 Byington No one should deny that the title theos (NT Greek word meaning “God,” “god,” “mighty one,” “divine,” etc.) can be applied to Jesus, just as it was applied in the scriptures to angels, judges of Israel, Moses, and (according to some trinitarian authorities) even the kings of Israel. But theos is never applied to Jesus with the most high sense that is given only to the Almighty, Most High, only true God. |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by Syncan(m): 5:40pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
Freksy: Hahahahaha, lies lies lies everywhere. Now You say that Psalm 45:6 written by David, is talking about solomon, Lol, try again. Hahaha, "God called solomon God", Lol, where did you get solomon from? I go die oooo. So in vs 16, the children of which of solomon's wife are prince in all the earth, Lol. It's well my brother. As if God knew they will make this attempt, He cleared all doubt to what was happening, when He revealed in Heb 1:1 :God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets....But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Here we get the true picture of the prophetic revelations of Ps45. It was not about any earthly king, certainly not solomon, it was about God, the father and his son Jesus. And God, the father, called his son Jesus, God. Hahaha, now the equality of Jesus with God is because Jesus is Spirit. Therefore angels are equal to God, even man, when he sheds this flesh is equal to God...chai I de greet o. Lies everywhere, angels are also spirits, yet only man was made in the image and likeness of God. I go die for laugh here, now the Jews wanted to kill Jesus because he said he was older than Abraham, which offence is that? Did Abraham not have a father, were noah, enoch and co not before him? Take a visit to John5:18, and see that the Jews were without a doubt about what Jesus was claiming. "Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. That's abomination, not claiming to be older than Abraham. After all when he claimed that Abraham saw his days and rejoiced (Jn8:56), they were still arguing with him..."You are not yet fifty, they said...." But immediately he went ahead to use the word "I am", they took up stones, Jn8:58. Abeg go read your bible, stop deceiving people. Jesus is God. |
| Re: Is Jesus Really God? by dolphinheart(m): 5:55pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
Syncan: Sir, I did not discard any quote, rather it is u that has refused to directly answer bible based questions on ur trinity. You have not answered the questions asked. I did not throw away titus 2:13, I told u that said that jesus is a god , that he is even to be called mighty god . Therfore it is not me that manufactured god for Jesus(wateva u mean by the statement) but the bible did. Though the issue of jesus being a god is not what I'm discussing with you, u brought that up. I did not throw away John 1:1-3 and heb 1:8. Those verses have been explained and discussed with you by others who are also seeking the truth. They have explained it to you, me and others reading in on this thread in ways that I believe is even better than I can explain it. Or do you want me to re quote them on my post for u to understand them? The word/ phrase "I am " has also been explained to you, do u want me to re quote that one too. You are the one refusing to answer the following questions 1.) The bible did not reveal that jesus is same as the father, if I'm wrong ,give us where the bible stated that jesus is jehovah/yaweh or father. 2. The bible reveals to us that we must worship the one and only true God, it reveals his name as jehovah/yaweh . Give us where the bible states that jesus is an only true God. 3. Give us where jesus is called almighty God. 4 . When God was giving judgement to Satan and he mention that the womans seed will crush the serpent, are u saying that this seed was jehovah/yaweh /father. 5 when god was telling moses that he will send another prophet like moses to the people of isreal, that he will come from among the isrealites. This prophet eventually became jesus, are u saying that God planned to send himself? |
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