..db

Who told you lake of Fire is Daniel's fiery furnace?


Revelation has symbols and there is no clear distinction between the literal and symbolic parts
Common sense and basic logic demands that you stick to literal UNLESS compelled by overwhelming evidence

Demons have been living since they were created. That means they can live for as long as the Lord wills

You are arguing in circles
The opposite of everlasting life is not non-everlasting life

CAPTIVATOR:

Signs
Lamb of God is not a literal lamb but refers to Jesus !

Seven stars means seven angels ( Rev 1:20)
Seven Lampstand Means Seven congregations
Lake of fire means second death ( Rev 21:4, 21: !!
Lake of fire is a symbol ! Further bible proof

1) Devil a spirit creature is thrown into it, spirit creatures cant be harmed by fire - exodus 3:2, judges 13:20 !!!

2) death, which means a state of dyin ... An unconscious state ( Ecc 9:10) is thrown into it ! Death cant be tortured. Rev 20:14,21:8

3) "wild beast" and "false prophet" which are symbols were thrown into it, isnt it reasonable dat the lake of fire itself is a symbol?
--------------
CONSIDER THIS:
Devil must live forever to be tortured forever, WHEREAS everlastin life is a gift (rom6:23) !! Haba

2) scripture foretold dat both death and the devil will be brought to Non existent,( Heb 2:14, 1cor 15:26)

[quote author=shdemidemi post=29385350]

My brother, Abraham's bosom does not literally mean his chest neither is it an institution freshly established for Abraham.

Abraham's bosom is a place of honour and essential relation with God. Similar to saying Jesus is sitting at the right hand of God- it isn't as if they literally have a chair and table where jesus is positioned on the right And the devil on the left.

Very poor bible scholarship.

How could Abraham's bosom which is a metaphor for your so called Pre-Hell Fire exist before Abraham himself ? Don't you think that your position is essentially deceptive ?

And I asked you a simple question , show me more than 1 witness statements to support your concept of two portions in Abraham's bosom, one for the wicked and the other for the righteous and thus far you are struggling.

Remember that the gospels were not written until about 60-100 years after the initiation of the church in Jerusalem. The scripture used by the early church believers was the Torah , period. In this context, can you show me the supportive text in this scripture that proposed an Abraham's bosom as a literal place of punishment and blessing.

Don't rigmarole, try and stay intelligent, logical and reasonable , anything else is just a prideful refusal to examine the scriptures in the light of overwhelming evidence that is wholly contrary to your point of view.

I think the bible affirm beyond every doubt that there is everlasting tortuture for the wicked. The bible gives an unequivocal closure to issues like Death hell and eternity.

Only according to your warped theology.

The bible certainly does not hold this erroneous point of view. The early church knew nothing of it, the apostles did not preach it and this should really raise the red flag, but alas for the religious dogmatic scholars they only see things from the strict narrow view of orthodoxy which is a rather made up mishmash of myth, fable and half-truths.

You can deceive people some times, but you cannot deceive people all the time.

The question is if we believe the bible or not?

Is the bible the word of God or is Jesus the word of God , it can't be both.

In the face of such clear, undeniable evidence about hell from the pages of Scripture, it seems absurd that anyone would challenge the existence, nature, or eternality of hell. We should not be surprised because the devil, through the natural mind of men will not stop in making heaven less appealing,and hell less horrific.

Based on your confused understanding of scripture and not according to the word of God.

CAPTIVATOR:

Signs
Lamb of God is not a literal lamb but refers to Jesus !

Seven stars means seven angels ( Rev 1:20)
Seven Lampstand Means Seven congregations
Lake of fire means second death ( Rev 21:4, 21: !!
Lake of fire is a symbol ! Further bible proof

1) Devil a spirit creature is thrown into it, spirit creatures cant be harmed by fire - exodus 3:2, judges 13:20 !!!

2) death, which means a state of dyin ... An unconscious state ( Ecc 9:10) is thrown into it ! Death cant be tortured. Rev 20:14,21:8

3) "wild beast" and "false prophet" which are symbols were thrown into it, isnt it reasonable dat the lake of fire itself is a symbol?
--------------
CONSIDER THIS:
Devil must live forever to be tortured forever, WHEREAS everlastin life is a gift (rom6:23) !! Haba

2) scripture foretold dat both death and the devil will be brought to Non existent,( Heb 2:14, 1cor 15:26)

Brother, these people do not follow logic or reason, they follow what Pastor Chris or Pastor Adeboye or Pastor so so and so etc has said.

They then force scripture to agree with these errors even at the expense of appearing not to make any sense or be deceptive.

It's like the blind leading the blind.

frosbel:
How could Abraham's bosom which is a metaphor for your so called Pre-Hell Fire exist before Abraham himself ? Don't you think that your position is essentially deceptive ?

Before sweating too hard, please tell me what you understand by Abraham's bosom.

Give a brief summary of what you can deduce from Luke 16: 19-31

vooks:
What will the fire be burning in eternity if all that's thrown there will be burned up in seconds?
Are you accusing your Creator of arson?
Wait, even arsonists have a purpose for lighting up fires. You just accused God of a meaningless exercise. But then again, may be the eternal fire looks cute

i would have preferred to ignore you because your post shows the attributes of a scoffer
However, I couldn't resist critiquing (not criticising) your logic here

I hear there are fiery stars in other universes and galaxies
Obviously created by god as you and I believe

But wait a minute, is their purpose to warm other creations in other planets?

Now let me also scoff
You don't need to answer me
Go ask your pastor then get back to me

shdemidemi:


Before sweating too hard, please tell me what you understand by Abraham's bosom.

Give a brief summary of what you can deduce from Luke 16-31

Lol, trying to play games with me ?

I await your rebuttal to my last exegesis before we move on to qualify the meaning of Abraham's bosom ( clue : a metaphor ).

frosbel:
Remember that the gospels were not written until about 60-100 years after the initiation of the church in Jerusalem. The scripture used by the early church believers was the Torah , period. In this context, can you show me the supportive text in this scripture that proposed an Abraham's bosom as a literal place of punishment and blessing.

Every single word of scripture is inspired and put together by God. If I will ever admit to be faulted for anything it will be the accuracy and perfection of scripture.

The term Abraham's bosom was used once in the entire bible and in the Jewish Talmud to portray a place of honor.

lastmessenger:

If you don't know what is ROR then I can tell you. Another guy name for it is messenger angel. Why should I dodge you. If all the scriptures that Frosbel is giving to you is not making sense to you then is it
My own that will make sense.
Bros park well.I know where you belong. When your pastor supported immorality you were busy all over internet defending him.When an idea is not coming from your pastor it won't make sense to you.

If you can tell me what ROR is, why are you not telling me already? Which one is messenger angel again, guy/lady, are you talking in parables? Abeg, make things plain, share knowledge and help a brother out.You are dodging. You said that "other passages made us know that God will actually destroy both soul and body in hell." i asked "What are the other passages that make us know that God will actually destroy soul and body in hell.". You know what you said? You said "No need because I know you too well."
That is dodging, so stop asking why you should dodge. Am i to give you reasons to dodge again or what? Simply tell us "What are the other passages that make us know that God will actually destroy soul and body in hell." Is frob your leader or pastor or daddy? Why did you decide to put yourself under him? Why do you think you cannot make sense if frosb doesn't make sense? Why are you allowing frosb to subvert your soul? Don't you know that he is not interested in going anywhere? He is not a christian, he is not born again, he does not want to go to heaven etc. You can ask him, he will confirm these things to you. You would rather follow such a person in the name of what?
You don't know where you belong. You offend me and make a mistake (as you are concerning this hell issue) with all you accuse me of. i don't recall my pastor supporting immorality or my being busy all over internet defending him. You do offend me by saying such.

frosbel:
The bible certainly does not hold this erroneous point of view. The early church knew nothing of it, the apostles did not preach it and this should really raise the red flag, but alas for the religious dogmatic scholars they only see things from the strict narrow view of orthodoxy which is a rather made up mishmash of myth, fable and half-truths.

You can deceive people some times, but you cannot deceive people all the time.

The bible certainly hold these views and our Lord Jesus Christ spoke more of hell than He did of heaven. He spoke about hell than anybody else in the entire scripture.

Is it that you don't believe he said these things?

frosbel:


Lol, trying to play games with me ?

I await your rebuttal to my last exegesis before we move on to qualify the meaning of Abraham's bosom ( clue : a metaphor ).

No games at all, please answer the questions as best as you possibly can.

shdemidemi:


Every single word of scripture is inspired and put together by God. If I will ever admit to be faulted for anything it will be the accuracy and perfection of scripture.

The term Abraham's bosom was used once in the entire bible and in the Jewish Talmud to portray a place of honor.

Shocking, so you are now going to the Talmud just like the Muslims go to the Hadiths when something does not corroborate their Quran, lol.

Do you agree that the Talmud is not Spirit inspired ?

Finally , when Paul made the following statement, can you tell me which scriptures he was referring to ?

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness," - 2 Timothy 3:16

shdemidemi:


No games at all, please answer the questions as best as you possibly can.

Mate, just say you don't know the answers and I will educate you, stop dilly dallying.

Except the lake of fire is SPECIFICALLY prepared for Satan and his angels. if they will be consumed, what's the point of the fire persisting beyond their annihilation into eternity?


Matthew 25:41King James Version (KJV)
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

esere826:
i would have preferred to ignore you because your post shows the attributes of a scoffer
However, I couldn't resist critiquing (not criticising) your logic here

I hear there are fiery stars in other universes and galaxies
Obviously created by god as you and I believe

But wait a minute, is their purpose to warm other creations in other planets?

Now let me also scoff
You don't need to answer me
Go ask your pastor then get back to me

frosbel:


Mate, just say you don't know the answers and I will educate you, stop dilly dallying.

Be my guest... Don't be shy to tell us what you think.

frosbel:
Sporadic throwing around of bible verses is not a mark of an exemplary bible student.

Let me try and juggle your thinking a little.

Jesus said this in Mark 9 :48
It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where
“‘the worms that eat them do not die,
and the fire is not quenched.’[d]

Even the bible compilers, added note d below ( a direct reference to where Jesus quotes from Isaiah 66:24 )

Isaiah 66:24 :
24 “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”

There are three things to note here ;

1. This was in reference to the same event, not a separate event. To suggest otherwise is deceptive.
2. The people being referred to are clearly dead bodies.
3. The fire will not be quenched till the bodies are all burnt up - ref / Malachi 4:3

You are desperately trying to divide these two statements as if they are not related, this is how deception works, forcing your false doctrine into scripture.

It would help you if you will calm your nerves and learn instead of sorry attempts to juggle other's thinking. i did not dispute Mark 9 :48's correlation with Isaiah 66. Instead, i explained it to you but you missed the bus. Maybe i should number the staements so that you can tell me the part you are not clear with or the part where you think i'm wrong.
1. Isaiah 66 talks about the second COMING of Christ Jesus.
2. The second coming is also referred to as the millenial reign or 1000year reign of Jesus Christ on earth. This is corroborated in Revelations.
3. Those unfortunate fellows who die during the second coming(Isaiah 66 and Rev 19: 21) are going to be raised at the White throne judgement(Revelations 20:12-15).
4. They and all other sinners would be thrown into where the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
This lake of fire is the hell fire that Jesus talked about as hell fire.

Again, you depict a knack for being unable to correctly divide the word of truth due to the brainwashing syndrome

The Internet is the greatest invention of mankind . From it , we can glean through tons of information on various topics to extract the data we need, analyse it, study it and make informed decisions based on objectivity and not emotional instability.

To want to prevent believers from researching on the Internet , shows the kind of dark mind that prevailed during the middle ages with the unfortunate consequence of superstitious rubbish that was been paraded as truth .

Besides a Pastor is not an authority on the word of God contrary to your perception. A Pastor is simply just another brother who is an elder in the church and has the skills according to the gift of God to gently and kindly shepherd the flock of God. He is not a doctrinal guru or an infallible figure in relation to things of religion. It is you and your ilk who have made them into the semi-gods that they are today hence the winds of doctrine breezing all over the place with the aftermath of over 40,000 denominations of which most have Ichabod written on their church doors.

We have the following teachers :
"As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him." - 1 John 2:27

"No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, 'Know the LORD,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more." - Jeremiah 31:34

i have not prevented people from reading whether by books or internet. You are the one preventing people from reading IF it does not support your position. You are the one poisoning other's minds against whatever their pastors say, calling it tradition or old fashion lies. Kinly show us any place where i have wanted to prevent believers from researching on the Internet. Of course you cannot, why, because you are a liar.
i have not described a pastor or given any opinions about who a pastor is, so don't make up any for me. Don't paint me any colour you wish, like you paint people who are not here. i am here and i will likely respond. Again, you want to teach us through the internet, but you are twisting scriptures to tell us not to listen to other teachers like our pastors. You are an hypocrite.

Image123, I am having difficulty logicalising your incoherency and haphazard approach to debating on serious issues. Not sure what the context is for the above scripture quotation, but it is obvious that there will be false prophets and Christs who draw people away from God with their heresies and doctrines of demons. In fact the majority of your churches in Nigeria are saturated with these sort of people.

You were the one that naively told someone that "If he has the Spirit of Christ he will not be deceived, besides the web site is a Christian web site quoting bible scripture not books from the 6 books of Moses." You said that if someone has the Spirit of Christ, he will not be deceived. i simply called you to order. One can have the Spirit of Christ and be deceived if one is careless.

Again, incoherent nonsense, please rephrase.

No need to re-phrase. If you read my posts, you would have seen that i later noticed that you do not believe that the devil will be tormented forever and ever. "never shalt thou be any more" in Ezekiel 28 means that he will not exist anymore in the land of life, or of the living Meanwhile in the lake where hell and death themselves are thrown, devil will be there. Death will be powerless to help his cause or put him out of his misery, and that would secondarily apply to other inhabitants of that dreadful place. When the Bible is promising no more pain, no more sorrow, of course the promise is not for the inhabitants of hell.

frosbel:


Shocking, so you are now going to the Talmud just like the Muslims go to the Hadiths when something does not corroborate their Quran, lol.

Do you agree that the Talmud is not Spirit inspired ?

Finally , when Paul made the following statement, can you tell me which scriptures he was referring to ?

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness," - 2 Timothy 3:16

Talmud isn't for christians my friend, it is for the judaism folks and their rabbis use it till date. Did you miss the part I said it was used once in scripture? Don't be quick to argue or be about your next point, take time to thing things through before typing.

Don't try and break scripture, if it says one it means one in its entirety. 2 Peter: "Know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God" (1:20-21).

CAPTIVATOR:
God will not treat Satan, he will " Crush Satan" and destroy him instead ( Rom 16:20).

He already bruised the devil at Calvary na. Genesis 3: 15, remember? After bruising, there was no annihilation. What gives you the confidence that there will be annihilation after crushing? Especially when the Bible clearly states otherwise.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever

" so that through his death He MIGHT destroy the one who has the means to cause death, the devil" Heb 2:14
! "Might" is use to refer to a possible future event , E.G I MIGHT come to ur house ! Grab that.

4 nw .... Satan still rule the world, he hasnt been destroyed ( 1 joh 5:19) !

No, don't change english for us sir. "MIGHT" refers to possibility. Possibility can be anytime past, present or future, depending on context. In this context, it already happened before us or before it was written. Check out the various places 'might'is used in the new testament Bible. It is usually of something that has taken place already before the writer penned it. Grab this.
Joh 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Mat 1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Jesus came so that we MIGHT have life. We have that life, we are not waiting for the distant future to have it. Check out all the various "might be fulfilled" statements, they were already fulfilled. Through Jesus' death, the devil was destroyed. Jess died that that might happen. His death made that possible. While the world lies in wickedness, all power belongs to Jesus. Satan and sin should not have dominion over you. You should be a part of God's kingdom, God's reign. this is basic let your kingdom come.

What happen to death and grave help to understand the meanin of lake of fire.

Death and grave is thrown into lake of fire is a symbolic language ( Rev 20:14, Rev 1:1 )... It means " Death will Be No More" Rev 21:4 ! And when death is no more , the grave automatically cease to exist .

What did the grave present when it gave up the dead in it? Death will be no more IN the new earth, because of course, it was thrown into the lake in the previous chapter. There will be no more dying for the people of God. Also, death will not be able to kill anybody in the lake of fire. Death and hell are cast into the lake of fire before the people. So death itself is powerless to help put anyone out of his/her misery in the lake of fire. It is etenal punishment all the way.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

lastmessenger:

Bro it is true but a well packaged lie under the threat of eternal torture will recieve mass audience. So what I am doing is to expose the lie so that those who want to worship Christ will do so not out of fear.

And if at the end of the day you find out that what you thought was a lie is actually the truth what will you do then?

Image123,
I salute your patience in dealing with this amateur skeptic who has no idea what he believes in yet will not hesitate to jump into arguments.

I'd rather a cold and hard atheist to a confused ignoramus who hallucinates having Eistein IQ after reading some garbage off the internet.

He is not here to learn but to draw as much attention to himself as he can by making some absurd and ludicrous posts aimed at nothing. If you doubt this, watch him slithering back into his hole and ignoring you completely only to resurface elsewhere with another idi0tic post.

He claims that Karma is in play and the wicked will be rewarded right here on earth. DOn't confuse him further with facts nor the illogic of his rants

Image123:


It would help you if you will calm your nerves and learn instead of sorry attempts to juggle other's thinking. i did not dispute Mark 9 :48's correlation with Isaiah 66. Instead, i explained it to you but you missed the bus. Maybe i should number the staements so that you can tell me the part you are not clear with or the part where you think i'm wrong.
1. Isaiah 66 talks about the second COMING of Christ Jesus.
2. The second coming is also referred to as the millenial reign or 1000year reign of Jesus Christ on earth. This is corroborated in Revelations.
3. Those unfortunate fellows who die during the second coming(Isaiah 66 and Rev 19: 21) are going to be raised at the White throne judgement(Revelations 20:12-15).
4. They and all other sinners would be thrown into where the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
This lake of fire is the hell fire that Jesus talked about as hell fire.



i have not prevented people from reading whether by books or internet. You are the one preventing people from reading IF it does not support your position. You are the one poisoning other's minds against whatever their pastors say, calling it tradition or old fashion lies. Kinly show us any place where i have wanted to prevent believers from researching on the Internet. Of course you cannot, why, because you are a liar.
i have not described a pastor or given any opinions about who a pastor is, so don't make up any for me. Don't paint me any colour you wish, like you paint people who are not here. i am here and i will likely respond. Again, you want to teach us through the internet, but you are twisting scriptures to tell us not to listen to other teachers like our pastors. You are an hypocrite.


You were the one that naively told someone that "If he has the Spirit of Christ he will not be deceived, besides the web site is a Christian web site quoting bible scripture not books from the 6 books of Moses." You said that if someone has the Spirit of Christ, he will not be deceived. i simply called you to order. One can have the Spirit of Christ and be deceived if one is careless.


No need to re-phrase. If you read my posts, you would have seen that i later noticed that you do not believe that the devil will be tormented forever and ever. "never shalt thou be any more" in Ezekiel 28 means that he will not exist anymore in the land of life, or of the living Meanwhile in the lake where hell and death themselves are thrown, devil will be there. Death will be powerless to help his cause or put him out of his misery, and that would secondarily apply to other inhabitants of that dreadful place. When the Bible is promising no more pain, no more sorrow, of course the promise is not for the inhabitants of hell.

vooks:
Except the lake of fire is SPECIFICALLY prepared for Satan and his angels. if they will be consumed, what's the point of the fire persisting beyond their annihilation into eternity?
Matthew 25:41King James Version (KJV)
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Uhmm,.. I think I understand you better now

Well like I told the other chap
My view on hell is neither for nor against. Though to the untrained mind it looks like I'm against
My motive is different
It leans more to simply showing that the passages that are used in support of hell have gaps
and the logic when the verses are put together is inconsistent
And yes, I lean more (not totally) towards hell not being what we,ve been taught by the church so far

Perhaps it exists, perhaps it doesn't. But mehn..... So far, there have been holes everywhere
For example, in a previous post I tried to show that the lake of fire might be everlasting for only some specific beings
It doesn't mean that is my position
But it does mean that I can easily draw this out from the arguments so far proffered
And you know what?
I can puncture this verse you've put up there within the hell concept

vooks:


Matthew 25:41King James Version (KJV)
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

God condemns the idea of a burning Nebuchadnezzar's Hell ...... Jer 7:31

Its clear Jesus was not tryin to contradict the scripture where God describe the dead as a person "who knows nothing" Ecc 9:5,10.

In Matt 25:41-46 you quoted above ..... The parable deals with SHEEP and GOATS ( MATT 25:33) , this are representing a certain group of people !!! .... What does the everlastin fire represent ? Remember Sodom and Gomorah and some cities suffer this same purnishment of everlastin fire ! It doesnt mean fire is still burning there .. But dey are completely destroyed and cease existing , the scripture then warns "they are placed before us as a warning example" Jude 7 ... " They were reduced to ashes" Settin a pattern for d ungodly(2pet2:6

shdemidemi:


Be my guest... Don't be shy to tell us what you think.

Don't be shy ?

So you admit you do not know, at least that's some unexpected honesty from you.

[quote author=shdemidemi post=29395000]

Talmud isn't for christians my friend, it is for the judaism folks and their rabbis use it till date. Did you miss the part I said it was used once in scripture? Don't be quick to argue or be about your next point, take time to thing things through before typing.

So if the Talmud is not for Christians why did you quote it

And please I am still waiting for the answer to my question, show me 1 verse in the OT that supports the concept of Abraham's bosom.

Don't try and break scripture, if it says one it means one in its entirety. 2 Peter: "Know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God" (1:20-21).

So which scripture was being referred to here ? Don't dodge, answer or accept you do not know.

frosbel:
.So if the Talmud is not for Christians why did you quote it

Where did I quote it?

frosbel:
And please I am still waiting for the answer to my question, show me 1 verse in the OT that supports the concept of Abraham's bosom.

Do you understand some things were hidden and they stayed hidden all through the Old Testament?

The concept of heaven and hell and Abraham's bosom was briefly announced by John the Baptist and explained by christ than anyone else.

Deut 29:29
[size=32pt]The secret things belong to the LORD our God[/size], but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law.

Have it in mind that it is within God's prerogative to keep things away from us.

Now explain what you understand by ,Abraham's bosom'. I have been waiting for a bit.

vooks:
Except the lake of fire is SPECIFICALLY prepared for Satan and his angels. if they will be consumed, what's the point of the fire persisting beyond their annihilation into eternity?


Matthew 25:41King James Version (KJV)
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Let the scripture explain itself in its usage of everlasting fire.

Sodom and Gomorrah suffer the purnishment of " evelastin fire" Jude 7 ..... IS FIRE STILL BURNING IN THOSE CITIES ?? NO ! They were destroyed forever !! .

Their experience shows that judicial purnishment of Everlasting fire refers to " everlastin destruction" 2 the 1:9

OR dont u read that many yrs after the destruction, Jesus said : ' Sodom didnt exist when he was on earth' Matt 11:23 ??

frosbel:
So which scripture was being referred to here ? Don't dodge, answer or accept you do not know.

What do you understand by the word 'scripture'?

Very predictable these Watchtower Sheeple.
Let's look at Jude
Jude 1:7 (KJV)
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example,suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Your logic broken down
1. Sodom and Gomorrha suffered eternal/everlasting fire
2. Sodom and Gomorrha were destroyed thousands of years ago
3. Eternal/everlasting fire means anything BUT FOREVER. It means annihilation

Is this what you are saying?

CANTICLES:


Let the scripture explain itself in its usage of everlasting fire.

Sodom and Gomorrah suffer the purnishment of " evelastin fire" Jude 7 ..... IS FIRE STILL BURNING IN THOSE CITIES ?? NO ! They were destroyed forever !! .

Their experience shows that judicial purnishment of Everlasting fire refers to " everlastin destruction" 2 the 1:9

OR dont u read that many yrs after the destruction, Jesus said : ' Sodom didnt exist when he was on earth' Matt 11:23 ??

Get off the fence and I will make time and engage you

esere826:

Uhmm,.. I think I understand you better now

Well like I told the other chap
My view on hell is neither for nor against. Though to the untrained mind it looks like I'm against
My motive is different
It leans more to simply showing that the passages that are used in support of hell have gaps
and the logic when the verses are put together is inconsistent
And yes, I lean more (not totally) towards hell not being what we,ve been taught by the church so far

Perhaps it exists, perhaps it doesn't. But mehn..... So far, there have been holes everywhere
For example, in a previous post I tried to show that the lake of fire might be everlasting for only some specific beings
It doesn't mean that is my position
But it does mean that I can easily draw this out from the arguments so far proffered
And you know what?
I can puncture this verse you've put up there within the hell concept

CANTICLES:


Let the scripture explain itself in its usage of everlasting fire.

Sodom and Gomorrah suffer the purnishment of " evelastin fire" Jude 7 ..... IS FIRE STILL BURNING IN THOSE CITIES ?? NO ! They were destroyed forever !! .

Their experience shows that judicial purnishment of Everlasting fire refers to " everlastin destruction" 2 the 1:9

OR dont u read that many yrs after the destruction, Jesus said : ' Sodom didnt exist when he was on earth' Matt 11:23 ??

Like I will tell Frosbel, you must check meanings of these words and the context at which they were used.

Eternal can mean different things, so we need know the exact context that was used before running away with our conclusions.

Eternal.. Aionios in greek... Describes duration, either undefined but not endless. Titus 1:2, rom 16:25/26.

Aionios can also mean for a season 2 cor 4:18

Aionios was also used of the sin that can never be forgiven ... It means final verdict and not temporary. Mark 3:9, Jude 7


This word is different from aidios which means 'everlasting'. It means it is permanent and unchangeable as used in Jude 6.

Jude 1:6King James Version (KJV)

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.



So, Jude 7 isn't referring to an everlasting fire but a final judgement by God, for which there is no appeal.

vooks:
Very predictable these Watchtower Sheeple.

Open ur eyes .... I quote jude 7 NOT Watchtower !!

Let's look at Jude
Jude 1:7 (KJV)
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example,suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

1. Sodom and Gomorrha suffered eternal/everlasting fire

YES
, Jude 7 says it

2. Sodom and Gomorrha were destroyed thousands of years ago

Yes .... " Sodom and Gomorah ..... were reduced to ashes" 2pet 2:6 !

NOTE: "reduced to ashes" 2pet 2:6

3. Eternal/everlasting fire means anything BUT FOREVER. It means annihilation

Those cities ar gone ...... Infact
matt 11:23 let us know they dont exist till the time of Jesus !!! .....