@ pastorAio if understand you clearly your post suggest that you believe in total anihilation of the ungodly.

lastmessenger:

Frosbel I red your replies to my many questions and I have also red some of the thoughts and ideas in the link that you posted on hell and eternal damnation. Well the authors has some serious points but my traditional belief is still holding me captive. Am still trying to put all the scriptures that I know so that I can reconcile it with what he taught.
But one important point he made is that the concept of eternal torment has produce what I will call false love for God ie men fearing God and doing all that he said even when their heart is far from God just to avoid being punished in that horrible bottomless pit forever.
Through knowledge my people shall be delivered. Am still searching and I will know the real truth.

This notion of future reward/punishment is a real spanner in the works. In my opinion it is one of the biggest stumbling blocks to people seeking spiritual maturity.

I cannot recall the odu in ifa but I recall verse that say human perfection will be achieved when the thief refuses to steal for no other reason than he can feel the pain that the owner will experience when he discovers his property is gone.
In other words when you do good because it is your nature to do good rather than for ulterior motives, that is when spiritual maturity is achieved.

lastmessenger:
@ pastorAio if understand you clearly your post suggest that you believe in total anihilation of the ungodly.

Nope, that's not what I said. I said total annihilation would be a better solution than eternal torture. The sinner did not beg God to create him. So why after creating him must he now suffer eternally? God bears all the responsibility here. If God can't achieve his purpose with man then he should just return man back to the nonexistence where he brought man from.

PastorAIO:



Nope, that's not what I said. I said total annihilation would be a better solution than eternal torture. The sinner did not beg God to create him. So why after creating him must he now suffer eternally? God bears all the responsibility here. If God can't achieve his purpose with man then he should just return man back to the nonexistence where he brought man from.

My Brother ..... I agree with you that at a time MAN DOESNT EXIST !!!

YET THE PENALTY FOR SIN IS " DEATH" rom 6:23 !!! Death: /opposite of live, non-existent, cease to exist, no longer alive/ !!! No wonder we say God can never die ! Wich means God cannot cease to exist .

BUT where did God say Adam himself will return to when he dies ??

lastmessenger:

I am laughing. Wether they believed in God of the Christians or Muslims or whatever God. My happiness is that they believed and did not deny that there is a superior being.
They understood that things don't just happen. A force is always responsible for movement.

But they didn't believe in specific Gods. Like I said, believing in God is completely different from believing that the God wrote a book.

Atheists don't have any particular problem with deists. However, once you start waving that book around, and claiming that God was the author, then you're talking foolishness.

PastorAIO:


This notion of future reward/punishment is a real spanner in the works. In my opinion it is one of the biggest stumbling blocks to people seeking spiritual maturity.

I cannot recall the odu in ifa but I recall verse that say human perfection will be achieved when the thief refuses to steal for no other reason than he can feel the pain that the owner will experience when he discovers his property is gone.
In other words when you do good because it is your nature to do good rather than for ulterior motives, that is when spiritual maturity is achieved.

PastorAIO:

Nope, that's not what I said. I said total annihilation would be a better solution than eternal torture. The sinner did not beg God to create him. So why after creating him must he now suffer eternally? God bears all the responsibility here. If God can't achieve his purpose with man then he should just return man back to the nonexistence where he brought man from.

Personally there are people that i dont engage in argument with because they make strong and balanced points and you are one of them. I only like to hear their opinion on issues, ask one or two questions (if any) just to pick more points from them.

Your points are quite balanced and understandable here than people who go about quoting scriptures anyhow and misapplying it just to showcase God as one all loving man who cannot carry out severe judgment on evil at all.

And yes like you said, me too i prefer total annihilation of evil men but i cant because its what i prefer begin to manipulate the scripture anyhow like these my brothers are doing, so as to suit my preference. It doesnt change anything rather it is self deceit.

frosbel:


You touched God / wow !!!

what did it feel like ?

I mean I touch his heart.
And it feels good to make God smile. God is the most emotional being in the whole universe.

There was a time I watch a someone gave become born again. And as I stood there and watch God suddenly made me feel exactly what he was feeling. His love for that newly born again was so overwalming. As the person was saying the prayer I literaly felt like a father who just had a child, holding this new born baby in his hands he fell in love with the baby. He felt like he would do anything for his baby and even give the whole world to the child.
After that I felt joy so great that I struggle to retrain myself. I wanted to jump and shout.

God is so emotional and he desire that you know his heart. Please try to focus more on getting intimate with God.

PastorAIO:



Nope, that's not what I said. I said total annihilation would be a better solution than eternal torture. The sinner did not beg God to create him. So why after creating him must he now suffer eternally? God bears all the responsibility here. If God can't achieve his purpose with man then he should just return man back to the nonexistence where he brought man from.

Now i understand.i think many scriptures suggest that there will be total annihilation of the ungodly. i have not settled on this anyway.

lastmessenger:

Now i understand.i think many scriptures suggest that there will be total annihilation of the ungodly. i have not settled on this anyway.

Based on what you read from those biased site given to you. . it will only satisfy your emotions but what will be remains.

honourhim:


Based on what you read from those biased site given to you. . it will only satisfy your emotions but what will be remains.

After emotions, what else is there?

PastorAIO:


After emotions, what else is there?

. The real thing. I mean, believing in total annihilation wont make it to be if it is not what is on ground.

honourhim:


. The real thing. I mean, believing in total annihilation wont make it to be if it is not what is on ground.

Neither will believing in Hell make it to be if it is not what is on ground.

Please try and read them first before concluding that i am working with sentiments. The author never brought his thoughts and arguments outside the bible. The only thing he did is that he interpreted scriptures outside the traditional beliefs. Well like i said i am still reading and seeking knowledge and by his grace i will settled on this.

honourhim:


Based on what you read from those biased site given to you. . it will only satisfy your emotions but what will be remains.

lastmessenger:
Please try and read them first before concluding that i am working with sentiments. The author never brought his thoughts and arguments outside the bible. The only thing he did is that he interpreted scriptures outside the traditional beliefs. Well like i said i am still reading and seeking knowledge and by his grace i will settled on this.

Please, I'd like to read these sites. Could you post the link here?

you guys are right. only God knows his plans and ultimate truth but human will remain humans and must ask questions and seek knowledge in any area that seems dark to him.May the great God be praised. AMEN.

PastorAIO:


Neither will believing in Hell make it to be if it is not what is on ground.

http://www.hellhadesafterlife.com/hell

PastorAIO:


Please, I'd like to read these sites. Could you post the link here?

PastorAIO:


Neither will believing in Hell make it to be if it is not what is on ground.

Yes of course. Like i said before, i prefer total annihilation. But it will be a great disappointment for them to believe that there will be total annihilation only to see its not so, and of course there are verses in the bible that shows its not, so they cant say they didnt see it rather they chose to see it the other way. For me it will be a thing of joy to see there is total annihilation for evil men.

Thanks

lastmessenger:
http://www.hellhadesafterlife.com/hell

uwc

PastorAIO:
Thanks

" The wicked will be no more" - Psalm 37:9 - 11

lastmessenger:
Please try and read them first before concluding that i am working with sentiments. The author never brought his thoughts and arguments outside the bible. The only thing he did is that he interpreted scriptures outside the traditional beliefs. Well like i said i am still reading and seeking knowledge and by his grace i will settled on this.

I ve read a little of it but i still dont agree totally with him. Yet his approach is better than the game of deceit being played by folks here in their own defence. At least i ve not seen the man say that the hell that Jesus was talking about is just the grave like the agents of deceit here do. I ve not see him blame King James translation as these guys do here. This makes some sense than the basket of deceit being dropped here and there in the name of no-hell preaching.So far these are my observations. I ll still read more when i have time and make my points where i feel like.

frosbel:


Yes, like Thomas Paine etc.

Of course there is a GOD, 100%....how any one can arrogantly suggest otherwise is beyond me.

So Paine was the most intelligent people in the world?

Image123:


So Paine was the most intelligent people in the world?

More intelligent than you for sure by a million miles -

Image123:

Who was/is Jesus' father? God the Father, plus i have Bible verseS that also say so. God begets God by His power, duh. Unlike you zealot, i know whom I've believed.

@frosb

frosbel:


More intelligent than you for sure by a million miles -

Calm down and don't get ahead of yourself na. Someone said that " Even the most intelligent people in the history had a belief in God." You sarcastically replied with T Paine. The simple question i asked you is if Paine was the most intelligent. Answer that, i don't claim to be intelligent duh. Also are you more intelligent than Paine?

Sincere questions to frosb, lastmessenger, CAPTIVATOR, aio and others who are skeptical about hell fire. Do you believe that God will send devil(s) to hell, do you believe it will be forever?

frosbel:


Yes, like Thomas Paine etc.

Of course there is a GOD, 100%....how any one can arrogantly suggest otherwise is beyond me.

Have you read his classic "age of reason". Wonderful writ, that writ!

PastorAIO:
This notion of future reward/punishment is a real spanner in the works. In my opinion it is one of the biggest stumbling blocks to people seeking spiritual maturity.

An experience can be a guidance or a stumbling block depending on how you choose to relate to it.

PastorAIO:
I cannot recall the odu in ifa but I recall verse that say human perfection will be achieved when the thief refuses to steal for no other reason than he can feel the pain that the owner will experience when he discovers his property is gone.
In other words when you do good because it is your nature to do good rather than for ulterior motives, that is when spiritual maturity is achieved.

Ultimately, the desire to steal is a denial of ones own "latent" creative powers.

Perfection is achieved through realizing that imperfections are a denial of your infinite being.

honourhim:



I ve read a little of it but i still dont agree totally with him. Yet his approach is better than the game of deceit being played by folks here in their own defence. At least i ve not seen the man say that the hell that Jesus was talking about is just the grave like the agents of deceit here do. I ve not see him blame King James translation as these guys do here. This makes some sense than the basket of deceit being dropped here and there in the name of no-hell preaching.So far these are my observations. I ll still read more when i have time and make my points where i feel like.

from your statement above then I can conclude that we are in the same page. I have never denied hell or it's existence.i am only saying that what the guy is writing in that page makes a whole lot of sense.

Image123:
Sincere questions to frosb, lastmessenger, CAPTIVATOR, aio and others who are skeptical about hell fire. Do you believe that God will send devil(s) to hell, do you believe it will be forever?

It is possible the devil may suffer forever( for the man who deceived the whole world) but for humans who lived a few years and committed timed offence I can't say with certainty that he will be punished forever. My point is based on the sense made by the authors of the site provided by frosbel.
I believe there is always a just recompense of reward for the wrong committed by humans. The idea if total anihilation of the ungodly in hell is very much possible but like I said earlier I have not settled on this.

lastmessenger:
from your statement above then I can conclude that we are in the same page. I have never denied hell or it's existence.i am only saying that what the guy is writing in that page makes a whole lot of sense.

I ve read further on the site and the man made a lot of sense. He was just explaining what is written in the bible rather than the series of denial and blame game we ve seen here.

He hasn't blamed any translation so far, He hasn't said that man has no soul rather he explained what(in his believe) Jesus meant by "destroying both the body and the soul".

He hasn't said anybody smuggled anything into the bible. He is not even running helter skelter over the scriptures digging up quotations anyhow(whether it fits in or not) just to support his no-hell/eternal torment teaching.

He hasn't abused any pastor or church leaders for whatever reason.

I think this is the first time I'm seeing a sincere explanation free of manipulations, denials and abuses on this issue.

Though I do not agree totally with him, yet his approach has soft pedal me. By the grace of God I'm not going to hell fire. If the people going there are totally annhilliated, good for them and I prefer they are. If they are not then that's for them too.

honourhim:


I ve read further on the site and the man made a lot of sense. He was just explaining what is written in the bible rather than the series of denial and blame game we ve seen here.

He hasn't blamed any translation so far, He hasn't said that man has no soul rather he explained what(in his believe) Jesus meant by "destroying both the body and the soul".

He hasn't said anybody smuggled anything into the bible. He is not even running helter skelter over the scriptures digging up quotations anyhow(whether it fits in or not) just to support his no-hell/eternal torment teaching.

He hasn't abused any pastor or church leaders for whatever reason.

I think this is the first time I'm seeing a sincere explanation free of manipulations, denials and abuses on this issue.

Though I do not agree totally with him, yet his approach has soft pedal me. By the grace of God I'm not going to hell fire. If the people going there are totally annhilliated, good for them and I prefer they are. If they are not then that's for them too.

The most important thing is to choose life.