malvisguy212:
I believe, the more you open thread against this guy the more you evangelise is believe , let him be, it's a choice he made. There is one post someone made that really sadden me, he say ; ''if someone like frosbel beginning to question his belief,what will the ones with the little faith do ?'' You can't force him to change,all the atheists are behind him,when the unbelievers are in support of you, then you need to dust your garment and check your self again.

Who is someone like frosbel BTW, for all i know, he is and was just a zealot not a christian. I've told him before and i say it again.

lastmessenger:
First i want to say that i commend and admire your boldness in saying what you believe and speaking against what you hate.You have done this not minding being labelled a heretic, an apostate, a condemned soul, a troubled soul, an atheist wannabe and some many other names that some folks have described you with.

Bravery my friend is the first step into freedom.

Well i am a close observer of many of your posts and comments in nairaland because just like you, i also have issues with the present Nigeria churches when it comes to some of the burdens that the MOGs have placed on their member. I have always believed in the words of Christ when He said "whosoever the son sets free is free indeed". So i share in some of your burdens and anger against the present Nigeria and indeed the worlds church systems.

Thank You.

But in recent weeks i have been left dumfounded by some of your posts, stating your believe on hell fire and eternal condemnation, the virgin birth and the authenticity of the word of the word of God as recorded in the bible.

Yes, because Hell does not exist like I said in my earlier post.

The Virgin birth is an obvious lie, fabrication, concoction and blatant lie. Please follow my thread on the virgin birth for further exegetical study on this topic.

First let me start my questions from the your belief on hell fire.You sincerely believe that hell is a fabricated concept that was smuggled to keep some people in check. well my question is,if there no hell and eternal condemnation, what punishment should be melted out to those who sin and continually sin against God? what is the reward for the iniquity of those who died as enemies of the true GOD?

People receive punishment for their actions in this life as is very evident from their experiences. For example, devil incarnates like Hitler who went mad before he died like a dog, all burnt up into ashes. Then Germany paid the price for supporting him with tens of millions dead and families displaced and the iron curtain section of Germany went through hell during the tenure of the Russian administration.

What about Idi Amin who died after suffering for years from Syphilis, or armed robbers who get shot to death or imprisoned by the police. The list is endless. When Paul talked about the wrath of God in Romans, he talked about it in the present tense, i.e it is being revealed, not that it will be revealed -Romans 1:18.There are also people who are depressed and have a generally poor quality of life because of how they mistreat and maltreat others. I know of many 419ers who are now so wretched that even church rats pity their condition. This is all karma on this earth.

Finally , on judgement day , those who lived continually in wickedness with no remorse will not be given the opportunity to experience immortality, i.e. they will get the wages of sin which is final death or the second death , a death from which there is no more resurrection or resuscitation.

If the virgin birth is wrong, who is the biological father of Christ ? How can a lie be accepted as truth by billions of people for over 2 thousand years? why do you think GOD himself have not intervened to stop the further spread of these lies? Does He enjoy seeing his people being deceived?

Joseph was the biological father of Jesus. It's included in books that were rejected from inclusion into the present day bible we have with us. T

I suggest you follow my thread on the virgin birth and peruse the opening page to know my position and then you can ask questions.

If the major part of the bible is fabricated, what then should somebody believe in? where is the truth found? Is it in those other books that you have been reading?

The Bible has a lot of truths which we should learn and follow . My personal opinion is that God will guide us into all truths, i.e the spirit gives life but the letter kills for want of a better explanation.

Follow my article on bible inerrancy. The bible is not inerrant and anyone who forces this as fact is a barefaced Liar.

finally you seem very critical of the present church system but in all your criticisms, you are yet to proffer solutions. what is the solution to the "rot" yous see in the church system? you said that you are not a christian, then i want to ask that if you are not a christian then what are you? why not leave the christians to do their things and continue with what you believe?

Solution is simple.

Give the current day Christians the freedom and ability to think for themselves so that they can arrive at their own conclusions after examining the facts. Get rid of the daily ritual and allow them to concentrate on the essentials of the faith such as living in peace with their brethren and neighbours, helping the needy and down trodden, promoting values that make society healthy and progressive. Get rid of the one man leadership in churches, sell all the buildings and give the money back to the people. Let both pastors and people live as a community in equal partnership and no longer the master/slave relationship that exists. Stop collecting tithes and offerings, pastors should downgrade their life style and help their communities more etc etc etc.

frosbel:




Joseph was the biological father of Jesus. It's included in books that were rejected from inclusion into the present day bible we have with us. T

I suggest you follow my thread on the virgin birth and peruse the opening page to know my position and then you can ask questions.

Okokobiokooooooooooooo! I'm surprised that I'm surprised. Joseph was the biological father of Jesus ke? You supply sure proof of what I hear about you very easily.

Image123:


Okokobiokooooooooooooo! I'm surprised that I'm surprised. Joseph was the biological father of Jesus ke? You supply sure proof of what I hear about you very easily.

- who was the father then ?
- God the Father or God the Holy Spirit ?
- And How does God beget God.
- Surely by inference Mary is the mother of God, so Catholics were right all long ?


Oh I forgot, you don't know the answers , you were brainwashed into believing in this hogwash

lastmessenger:
I am worried because even though God has made a way of escape but the chilling truth is that people will definitely go there and even God knows about that. How is wish there is no sin to commit and how i wish the earth was created to be like heaven so that we will not have to struugle against sin and iniquity.in all things i trust in the mercy of the most high and i do hope and wish that somehow those who died without Christ will be given a second chance just like christ preach to the spirits in the prison and presented the gospel to them. I sincerely do hate the idea of eternal damnation.

The idea of hell fire may not attract applause my dear but its there. God's ways are different from ours. You will ask yourself- why did God create this world when he knew it would turn out to be bad as it is? Even Jesus gave a graphic detail of what the last days will be like which we are seeing now. And this shows that the situation of this world did not take God unawares. He sees the end from the beginning you know?

For him to have allowed it to be this way shows purpose, which only him can best describe. What if all these things(good and ugly, heaven and hell) satisfies his nature? When people try to confuse themselves that God is so loving and for that reason cannot allow hell to burn people forever as written in the scripture i get surprised at such level of self deceit.

Nobody can convince me that a God who created this world knowing fully well that it will plunge from evil to evil cannot punish people in the lake of fire forever as written in the bible. Bro dont mind such people because they are living in total self deceit. We know how they ve been running from one excuse to the other since the hell fire argument started just to defend their deceit. Jumping from one lie to another. Go through their profile and see threads on this argument in the past and you will see how they are running like cockroach that got sprayed with insecticide.

^^^


If there is a HELL you will be one of it's foremost inhabitants

Evidence : Matthew 23:33

frosbel:
^^^


If there is a HELL you will be one of it's foremost inhabitants

Evidence : Matthew 23:33

false prophet you want to twist that scripture in your usual style?

Romans 8:1 "there is therefore now no condemnation for them which are in Christ Jesus."

Hebrews 12:2 "looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith".

By God's grace i ve escaped hell fire so i dont need to fear it like you. Repent and stop deceiving yourself and the innocent souls here.

^^^

Matthew 7:16 - 17

honourhim:


false prophet you want to twist that scripture in your usual style?

Romans 8:1 "there is therefore now no condemnation for them which are in Christ Jesus."

Hebrews 12:2 "looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith".

By God's grace i ve escaped hell fire so i dont need to fear it like you. Repent and stop deceiving yourself and the innocent souls here.

GOD annihilate the cannanites .... Y? THEY Burn their sons and daughter alive in the fire ( Deu 12:31) !!! Is God an hypocrite, who ban somethin yet carry it out on a large scale ?? ( THINK)

Pls where is Adam ??

frosbel:
^^^

Matthew 7:16 - 17

Evil fruits such as the one you are bearing. Now examine your life in the mirror you posted oh thou pharisee.

CAPTIVATOR:


GOD annihilate the cannanites .... Y? THEY Burn their sons and daughter alive in the fire ( Deu 12:31) !!! Is God an hypocrite, who ban somethin yet carry it out on a large scale ?? ( THINK)

Pls where is Adam ??

False prophet you want us to go round this argument again? I dont have such silly time to waste on you. This fear you are constantly exhibiting here is not the way out. Repent and embrace Jesus. He is the only way out.

Did God not command- "thou shall not kill", yet he ordered nations to kill another nation. Mr fear repent. I dont have your time

honourhim:


False prophet you want us to go round this argument again? I dont have such silly time to waste on you. This fear you are constantly exhibiting here is not the way out. Repent and embrace Jesus. He is the only way out.

Just calm down ~smiles~ ....

Where is Adam ??

honourhim:


False prophet you want us to go round this argument again? I dont have such silly time to waste on you. This fear you are constantly exhibiting here is not the way out. Repent and embrace Jesus. He is the only way out.

Just calm urself down .... U always got me ~smiling~ .

" They burn their sons and daughters in the fire .... Something I have not commanded and had NEVER Come up into my heart to do this DISGUSTING thing " Jer 7:31 , 32:35

Where is Adam ??

malvisguy212:
are you a Muslim ? Well , I no blame you, nah frosbel I blame.

I am not, sir. Never been and will never be.

frosbel:


- who was the father then ?
- God the Father or God the Holy Spirit ?
- And How does God beget God.
- Surely by inference Mary is the mother of God, so Catholics were right all long ?


Oh I forgot, you don't know the answers , you were brainwashed into believing in this hogwash

Who was/is Jesus' father? God the Father, plus i have Bible verseS that also say so. God begets God by His power, duh. Unlike you zealot, i know whom I've believed.

CAPTIVATOR:


Just calm urself down .... U always got me ~smiling~ .

" They burn their sons and daughters in the fire .... Something I have not commanded and had NEVER Come up into my heart to do this DISGUSTING thing " Jer 7:31 , 32:35

Where is Adam ??

And I asked you what about the one he commanded - " thou shall not kill"? Yet at some points he raised nations to go and kill other nations. I throw back your question to you- is God a hypocrite? He banned killing yet supported it at some point.

As for the one of Adam, don't be lazy bro. Go back to that thread where we all had that argument extensively and you will find it. It is you that need to calm down and go find the thread. When you find it, also calm down and go through it, remove the veil of deceit in your heart and you will understand it.

I'm not a fool that keeps running round the circle.

honourhim:

I throw back your question to you- is God a hypocrite? He banned killing yet supported it at some point.

!!

MY GOD is not an hypocrite ..... See what king james version has done to people, go and study deep and stop givin atheist a reason to blasphem .
!

Exodus 20:13 "thou shall not kill" KJV . But the hebrew word rendered kill here is /ra-tsach'/ which means " a deliberate and unlawful killing" "kill without a cause"

MODERN TRANSLATIONS HAVE CORRECT THIS ERROR :

MOST read " YOU must not murder " ex 20:14 NIV, and many others; therefore bringin out the real meaning of /ratsach/ !!!

There is another form of kill /nakah/ ... Used in numbers 35:11 it refers to accidental killing, or any killin thats not deliberate ! Such ones were pardoned .!!

God NEVER muder the cannanites, the CAUSE of their annihilation is due to wickedness of the disgustin practice of roastin sons and daughters in fire !

As for the one of Adam,

u havnt answer

CAPTIVATOR:
!!

MY GOD is not an hypocrite ..... See what king james version has done to people, go and study deep and stop givin atheist a reason to blasphem .
!

Exodus 20:13 "thou shall not kill" KJV . But the hebrew word rendered kill here is /ra-tsach'/ which means " a deliberate and unlawful killing" "kill without a cause"

MODERN TRANSLATIONS HAVE CORRECT THIS ERROR :

MOST read " YOU must not murder " ex 20:14 NIV, and many others; therefore bringin out the real meaning of /ratsach/ !!!

There is another form of kill /nakah/ ... Used in numbers 35:11 it refers to accidental killing, or any killin thats not deliberate ! Such ones were pardoned .!!

God NEVER muder the cannanites, the CAUSE of their annihilation is due to wickedness of the disgustin practice of roastin sons and daughters in fire !
u havnt answer

Young man you are lying as usual. There are many places in the scripture where God sent people to go and destroy the lives of people and even animal.

And of course I know about accidental killing in the bible but when you want to mix it up then it won't work.
You have engaged in your usual style of blame game. Now its king James translation that is your problem.

honourhim:


Young man you are lying as usual. There are many places in the scripture where God sent people to go and destroy the lives of people and even animal.
And of course I know about accidental killing in the bible.

Its truly " You must not murder /ratsach/" NIV, NWT, NLT, ESV, ISV, HOLMAN AND MANY Others.

Murder /ratsach/: killin without justification or an excuse.
The punishment for murder is "death" and such an isrealite must be stoned to death.BUT THOSE STONING HIM TO DEATH (Such as the case of Achan) Ar not guilty of murder.

Cannanites annihilation is NOT a Murder ...Its a purnishment of death justified due to their wicked inhuman activity of roastin Sons and Daughters in fire,so God label dem "WICKED"

ON THIS ISSUE :

"they burn their sons and daughters in fire,

1. SOMETIN I HAVE NEVER COMMANDED!

2. And have never come into my heart!

3. To do such a DETESTABLE thing." [b]JER 7:31, 32:35! Think

lastmessenger:
Yes i am very much aware of that but the picture of some guys suffering for eternity in a bottomless pit is horrible. I sincerely wish and hope that hell is not what we think it is.

If you are a Christian then you should trust God.
Trusting God involve trusting his wisdom and judgement.
Do you think you know how to love than the God who is love himself. It is very clear in the bible that there is eternal damnation.
Let just trust God.

Hiswordxray:


Let just trust God.

God is imaginary. You're choosing to believe the opinions of the anonymous humans who compiled your holy book.

Weah96:


God is imaginary. You're choosing to believe the opinions of the anonymous humans who compiled your holy book.

Go tell that to someone who doesn't know God. Not someone who have heard, touch, experience and know God.

Hiswordxray:

Go tell that to someone who doesn't know God. Not someone who have heard, touch, experience and know God.

You touched God / wow !!!

what did it feel like ?

Hiswordxray:

Go tell that to someone who doesn't know God. Not someone who have heard, touch, experience and know God.

So what are you trusting him to do? Is it to roast dead human beings while some of their family members watch from the comfort of the golden heaven?

Hiswordxray:

If you are a Christian then you should trust God.
Trusting God involve trusting his wisdom and judgement.
Do you think you know how to love than the God who is love himself. It is very clear in the bible that there is eternal damnation.
Let just trust God.

My human wisdom still see it as horrible.

frosbel:


You touched God / wow !!!

what did it feel like ?

Frosbel I red your replies to my many questions and I have also red some of the thoughts and ideas in the link that you posted on hell and eternal damnation. Well the authors has some serious points but my traditional belief is still holding me captive. Am still trying to put all the scriptures that I know so that I can reconcile it with what he taught.
But one important point he made is that the concept of eternal torment has produce what I will call false love for God ie men fearing God and doing all that he said even when their heart is far from God just to avoid being punished in that horrible bottomless pit forever.
Through knowledge my people shall be delivered. Am still searching and I will know the real truth.

Weah96:


God is imaginary. You're choosing to believe the opinions of the anonymous humans who compiled your holy book.

Even the most intelligent people in the history had a belief in God. Why are you denying yourself. How can anything just drop from nowhere.

lastmessenger:

Even the most intelligent people in the history had a belief in God. Why are you denying yourself. How can anything just drop from nowhere.

Yes, like Thomas Paine etc.

Of course there is a GOD, 100%....how any one can arrogantly suggest otherwise is beyond me.

lastmessenger:

Even the most intelligent people in the history had a belief in God. Why are you denying yourself. How can anything just drop from nowhere.

Did the most intelligent people believe that this God wrote a book through human beings?

Believing in God is one thing. Believing that the God wrote a book through white people is quite another.

lastmessenger:

Frosbel I red your replies to my many questions and I have also red some of the thoughts and ideas in the link that you posted on hell and eternal damnation. Well the authors has some serious points but my traditional belief is still holding me captive. Am still trying to put all the scriptures that I know so that I can reconcile it with what he taught.
But one important point he made is that the concept of eternal torment has produce what I will call false love for God ie men fearing God and doing all that he said even when their heart is far from God just to avoid being punished in that horrible bottomless pit forever.
Through knowledge my people shall be delivered. Am still searching and I will know the real truth.

Keep searching, you will get there.

Look at me, chooking mouth where they did not ask me any question.

First let me start my questions from the your belief on hell fire.You sincerely believe that hell is a fabricated concept that was smuggled to keep some people in check. well my question is,if there no hell and eternal condemnation, what punishment should be melted out to those who sin and continually sin against God? what is the reward for the iniquity of those who died as enemies of the true GOD?

Why does it have to be Hellfire? Why can they not just be eradicated so they don't exist anymore. Afterall there was once a time when people didn't exist. So why can't they just return to that state of non existence?

If the virgin birth is wrong, who is the biological father of Christ ? How can a lie be accepted as truth by billions of people for over 2 thousand years? why do you think GOD himself have not intervened to stop the further spread of these lies? Does He enjoy seeing his people being deceived?

The bolded parts are very good questions. Let's us extend it properly. Why would God allow all the evils done in christianity and in his name to happen? Look at the state of christianity in Nigeria. Why would God allow so many people to use his name to Lie and steal and commit all sorts of evils without batting an eyelid? 'Why do you think God himself have not intervened to stop' these? Does he enjoy the deception or is he impotent?

finally you seem very critical of the present church system but in all your criticisms, you are yet to proffer solutions. what is the solution to the "rot" yous see in the church system? you said that you are not a christian, then i want to ask that if you are not a christian then what are you? why not leave the christians to do their things and continue with what you believe?

If 'christianity' was truly a personal relationship with God and it did not spill out onto the streets to become a social nuisance then 'leaving "christians" to do their thing' would be feasible. Frosbel may yet come up with answers of his own or his contribution may rest at asking pertinent questions, either way he is adding value to the conversation/debate so you can't knock him for only asking questions.
Besides I'm not sure that many people are will to hear answers that challenge them. Let them deal with the questions first.

If the major part of the bible is fabricated, what then should somebody believe in? where is the truth found? Is it in those other books that you have been reading?

If I am to understand christianity right then we have a spirit that will guide us in ALL truth. By 'all' I assume we are not just talking about theological truths. The Bible was never the foundation of christianity.

lastmessenger:
First i want to say that i commend and admire your boldness in saying what you believe and speaking against what you hate.You have done this not minding being labelled a heretic, an apostate, a condemned soul, a troubled soul, an atheist wannabe and some many other names that some folks have described you with.

Well i am a close observer of many of your posts and comments in nairaland because just like you, i also have issues with the present Nigeria churches when it comes to some of the burdens that the MOGs have placed on their member. I have always believed in the words of Christ when He said "whosoever the son sets free is free indeed". So i share in some of your burdens and anger against the present Nigeria and indeed the worlds church systems.

But in recent weeks i have been left dumfounded by some of your posts, stating your believe on hell fire and eternal condemnation, the virgin birth and the authenticity of the word of the word of God as recorded in the bible.

First let me start my questions from the your belief on hell fire.You sincerely believe that hell is a fabricated concept that was smuggled to keep some people in check. well my question is,if there no hell and eternal condemnation, what punishment should be melted out to those who sin and continually sin against God? what is the reward for the iniquity of those who died as enemies of the true GOD?
If the virgin birth is wrong, who is the biological father of Christ ? How can a lie be accepted as truth by billions of people for over 2 thousand years? why do you think GOD himself have not intervened to stop the further spread of these lies? Does He enjoy seeing his people being deceived?

If the major part of the bible is fabricated, what then should somebody believe in? where is the truth found? Is it in those other books that you have been reading?

finally you seem very critical of the present church system but in all your criticisms, you are yet to proffer solutions. what is the solution to the "rot" yous see in the church system? you said that you are not a christian, then i want to ask that if you are not a christian then what are you? why not leave the christians to do their things and continue with what you believe?

Weah96:


Did the most intelligent people believe that this God wrote a book through human beings?

Believing in God is one thing. Believing that the God wrote a book through white people is quite another.

I am laughing. Wether they believed in God of the Christians or Muslims or whatever God. My happiness is that they believed and did not deny that there is a superior being.
They understood that things don't just happen. A force is always responsible for movement.