An2elect2:
What is the whole talk about faith from Ayoku 777 and others, when faith itself is given?

Faith is a gift, no man can produce the faith of Christ unto salvation.

Repentance is a gift.

Discernment is a gift.

Patience and long suffering are gifts.

All are gifts of the Spirit, so which one are you ascribing to man?

And what is the nature of God's gifts? Are they imposed? Are they forced on us?

Gifts have two stages. One, it is given (or offered) by the giver. Two it is accepted or rejected by the receiver.

I've noticed you have this wrong description of the nature of God's gifts. You believe when God gives a gifts; the option of rejecting it is impossible to the receiver. That is wrong.

The gifts of God are offered, not imposed; they are presented, not forced on us. The gifts can be accepted or rejected by the receiver; or even accepted then forsaken.

You're right, saving faith is truly a gift, the scripture says that much. It is not an emotion we work up in our power.

Eph 4v8 -For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that faith is not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Note: words in blue are mine.

It says here that even the faith with which we received grace unto salvation was not of ourselves, it was the gift of God. Meaning no one can believe the gospel on his own, without the gift of faith from God.

But the question is, is this gift of faith given to some and denied others? Is it God that makes some people believe and makes others not believe? NO!

Romans 10v17 -So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Can you see this verse? Faith comes by hearing the word of God. Anyone who can hear the gospel can believe the gospel. The hearing of the gospel of Christ and the offer of the gift of faith in Him go hand in hand; they are two sides of the same coin.

So there is no such thing as; "Ten people heard the gospel, but only the two that God gave the gift of faith could believe it." Or that; "I heard the gospel, but God did not give me the gift of faith to believe it."

God does not present us with the gospel of salvation and then leave us struggling in our weakness to believe it. The faith to believe in Christ is offered with the hearing of His gospel.

Inherent in the gospel of grace, is the gift of faith to believe it. The gospel of Christ and the gift of faith to believe it, arrive in the same mail. You can say, the gospel comes with its own "believability package".

There are no select people that God offers the gift of faith to. Everyone who is ever presented with the gospel, was also offered the gift of faith to believe it. Anyone that was ever afforded the privilege of hearing the gospel, was offered the gift of faith in Christ.

So anyone who hears the gospel and doesn't believe it chose not to believe it, because the gift of faith in Christ was offered with the hearing of the gospel. Unbelievers who have heard the gospel, rejected the gift of faith in Christ.

That is why the Holy Spirit reproves the unbelief of the world.

John 16v8-9 -And when he (the Holy Spirit) is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me;

The Holy Spirit reproves the world of the sin of unbelief.

If God is the one that offers some the gift of faith in Christ and denies others; why will the Holy Spirit rebuke the world for not having what God did not give or offer them? Why will he rebuke the world for not having what God denied or refused them.

It's like you, paying the school fees of one of your kids, and then you didn't pay that of the other kid. And you now rebuke him for being sent home from school.

Is that how low you esteem God and His integrity and justice? That He will rebuke us for not having what He denied us or refused to offer us?

Everyone is offered the gift of faith in Christ at the hearing of the gospel. Those who are believers are the ones who chose to accept the gift; those who remained unbelievers rejected the faith. But there is no one that was not offered -it comes with the hearing.

Faith is a gift of God; but receiving the gift of faith in Christ, keeping the faith and departing from the faith are all our choices.

That something is a gift does not mean receiving it is not a choice or that rejecting it is impossible. You keep making that doctrinal error. The gift of faith is offered everyone at the hearing of the gospel. We choose to accept it or reject it. And if we accept it, we choose to keep it or depart from it.

IT IS OUR CHOICE.

Shalom!

vooks:

If it's all about Christ, then the dozens of exhortation to holy living are misplaced as they are directed at man.

1 Corinthians 6:18King James Version (KJV)

18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

Yes Paul admonishes to flee, a mature believer attacks such thoughts with the word of God before it becomes full blown. But for a babe in Christ who falls into such temptations, does that lead to his loss of salvation?

The blood of Jesus cleanses us from ALL sin. Preaching and teaching condemnation is a deadly and demonic doctrine.

Fornication doesn't lead to loss of salvation.

An2elect2:
What is the whole talk about faith from Ayoku 777 and others, when faith itself is given?

Faith is a gift, no man can produce the faith of Christ unto salvation.

Repentance is a gift.

Discernment is a gift.

Patience and long suffering are gifts.

All are gifts of the Spirit, so which one are you ascribing to man?

God's gives liberally and unconditionally,Our own part is to receive.

who is still arguing again on this thread,I thought i cleared the arguements

ABDULADINO:
Yes Paul admonishes to flee, a mature believer attacks such thoughts with the word of God before it becomes full blown. But for a babe in Christ who falls into such temptations, does that lead to his loss of salvation?

The blood of Jesus cleanses us from ALL sin. Preaching and teaching condemnation is a deadly and demonic doctrine.

Fornication doesn't lead to loss of salvation.

James 1:14-16
14 But every person is tempted when he is drawn away, enticed and baited by his own evil desire (lust, passions).
15 Then the evil desire, when it has conceived, gives birth to sin, and sin, when it is fully matured, [size=14pt]brings forth death[/size].
16 Do not be misled, my beloved brethren.

The wages of sin remains death.

ABDULADINO:
Yes Paul admonishes to flee, a mature believer attacks such thoughts with the word of God before it becomes full blown. But for a babe in Christ who falls into such temptations, does that lead to his loss of salvation?

The blood of Jesus cleanses us from ALL sin. Preaching and teaching condemnation is a deadly and demonic doctrine.

Fornication doesn't lead to loss of salvation.

You miss the point which is human responsibility. If we are not responsible whatsoever then these admonitions should be directed at whoever (God) is responsible.

If preaching Christ is demonic, so be it

John 15:6 (KJV)
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

James 5:19-20 (ESV)
19 My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, 20 let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

James too was demon possessed for telling us we would save the sinning believer's soul from death.

Hebrews 10:26-31 (ESV)
26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
The Author of Hebrews too was demon possessed.

Only this amateur theologian has Holy Spirit it seems. I wonder why God never thought leaving a slot for him in the canon to pen one or two books

ayoku777:


And what is the nature of God's gifts? Are they imposed? Are they forced on us?

God's gifts are not conditioned on man's choice/will. They are given freely to all of them who believe by saving faith in Christ in concert with God's sovereign choice.

ayoku777:


Gifts have two stages. One, it is given (or offered) by the giver. Two it is accepted or rejected by the receiver.

You don't get, man is incapable of receiving the things of God. You have to understand the nature of man before considering his choice/will. Pray tell, where does his choice spring out from? Will he choose against his heart desires. No.

Luke 6:45 ;
" A good man out of the good treasure of his
heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an
evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart
bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the
abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

Matthew 15:18 ;
But those things which proceed out of the
mouth come forth from the heart; and they
defile the man.

And if we are honest here the scriptures never used kind words to describe the heart of man/his nature.

Matthew 15:19
For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder,
adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander.

Romans 3:10
As it is written: “None is righteous, no, not on;

Psalm 51:5
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my
mother conceive me.

Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately
sick; who can understand it?

John 8:44
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do
your father's desires. He was a murderer from the
beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Genesis 6:5
The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in
the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Don't tell me God thinks man can do something good such as choosing Him at one point in His life time when all his intents are evil non stopping. Is it not out of the intentions of the thoughts in your heart that you make choice. Is choosing God not a good thing? yes. So which man( all men are evil natured) can do this good thing without a change of heart and without new desires. Can man change his heart? no. There may be something as changing one's mind but there is nothing like changing ones heart which is the source of our thoughts and what determines our choices. Only God can change a man's heart from stony-like to fleshy-like. From a 'resentful heart' to an 'accepting heart'.

ayoku777:


I've noticed you have this wrong description of the nature of God's gifts. You believe when God gives a gifts; the option of rejecting it is impossible to the receiver. That is wrong.

The gifts of God are offered, not imposed; they are presented, not forced on us. The gifts can be accepted or rejected by the receiver; or even accepted then forsaken.

You're right, saving faith is truly a gift, the scripture says that much. It is not an emotion we work up in our power.

All men are 'wired' to reject the gift of God. It is in our nature to choose death over life. Those who believe, believe by the grace of God. Not their wills, quit this heresy o.

Ephesians 2:3-5
among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of
wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved

Did God consult man before doing the italicised?

ayoku777:

Eph 4v8 -For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that faith is not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Note: words in blue are mine.

It says here that even the faith with which we received grace unto salvation was not of ourselves, it was the gift of God. Meaning no one can believe the gospel on his own, without the gift of faith from God.

But the question is, is this gift of faith given to some and denied others? Is it God that makes some people believe and makes others not believe? NO!

Romans 10v17 -So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Can you see this verse? Faith comes by hearing the word of God. Anyone who can hear the gospel can believe the gospel. The hearing of the gospel of Christ and the offer of the gift of faith in Him go hand in hand; they are two sides of the same coin.

So there is no such thing as; "Ten people heard the gospel, but only the two that God gave the gift of faith could believe it." Or that; "I heard the gospel, but God did not give me the gift of faith to believe it."

God does not present us with the gospel of salvation and then leave us struggling in our weakness to believe it. The faith to believe in Christ is offered with the hearing of His gospel.

Inherent in the gospel of grace, is the gift of faith to believe it. The gospel of Christ and the gift of faith to believe it, arrive in the same mail. You can say, the gospel comes with its own "believability package".

There are no select people that God offers the gift of faith to. Everyone who is ever presented with the gospel, was also offered the gift of faith to believe it. Anyone that was ever afforded the privilege of hearing the gospel, was offered the gift of faith in Christ.

So anyone who hears the gospel and doesn't believe it chose not to believe it, because the gift of faith in Christ was offered with the hearing of the gospel. Unbelievers who have heard the gospel, rejected the gift of faith in Christ.

That is why the Holy Spirit reproves the unbelief of the world.

John 16v8-9 -And when he (the Holy Spirit) is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me;

The Holy Spirit reproves the world of the sin of unbelief.

If God is the one that offers some the gift of faith in Christ and denies others; why will the Holy Spirit rebuke the world for not having what God did not give or offer them? Why will he rebuke the world for not having what God denied or refused them.

It's like you, paying the school fees of one of your kids, and then you didn't pay that of the other kid. And you now rebuke him for being sent home from school.

Is that how low you esteem God and His integrity and justice? That He will rebuke us for not having what He denied us or refused to offer us?

Everyone is offered the gift of faith in Christ at the hearing of the gospel. Those who are believers are the ones who chose to accept the gift; those who remained unbelievers rejected the faith. But there is no one that was not offered -it comes with the hearing.

Faith is a gift of God; but receiving the gift of faith in Christ, keeping the faith and departing from the faith are all our choices.

That something is a gift does not mean receiving it is not a choice or that rejecting it is impossible. You keep making that doctrinal error. The gift of faith is offered everyone at the hearing of the gospel. We choose to accept it or reject it. And if we accept it, we choose to keep it or depart from it.

IT IS OUR CHOICE.

Everything boils down to your lack of understanding of the nature of man. If you understand the spiritual dearth lurking in every man, you will throw away the heresy of free will. Start from the root and you wont get to this laughable conclusion of "its our choice"

Ayoku777, vooks, Jiggaz, Scholar8200

If ten murderers are convicted and all sentenced to life imprisonment and the president exercises his prerogative right to pardon a prisoner and he orders for the release of lets say five of them, is he responsible for the remaining five who will have to stay with their life term jail? No. The are completely responsible for their evil deeds.

However, the remaining who received mercy will forever be grateful to the President.

Apply this analogy to what we are saying.

You guys who believe in man's choice will not accuse the President of unfairness. Why? because He is not responsible for the crimes of all them and would have simply allowed all to rot in jail, but out of his constitutional right/power he pardoned five.

It is the same for the sinner and salvation. All of us are by nature children of wrath but God because of His love according to His sovereign will decided to have mercy on those whom he had chosen.

We speak the truth, and you attack us? May you see.

This is a classic example of proof texting. Quoting scriptures out of context to drive a weak point home. It is also known as Gish galloping; overwhelming your opponent with too many points at a go and interpreting their inability to respond as fast as vindication of your position.

Let's look at your statements

An2elect2:
God's gifts are not conditioned on man's choice/will. They are given freely to all of them who believe by saving faith in Christ in concert with God's sovereign choice.

This is a contradictory statement. Break it down.
1. Gifts are 'not conditioned on man's choice'.
2. Gifts are freely given to all of them who believe by faith in 'concert with God's sovereign choice'

Note the condition in #2 of 'believing by faith'. It means those who don't believe or 'believe by faith' can't access the gifts
Unless of course you think 'believing by faith' is equally part of these gifts. You subscribe to this.

If believing is a gift from God, why would he be angry at disbelief yet He is the one who has denied them this gift of 'believing by faith'?

In each of these instances, there is clear disappointment at resisting the truth or unbelief;

Mark 6:6 (KJV)
And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV)
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Acts 7:51 (KJV)
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

2 Timothy 3:8 (KJV)
Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

You don't get, man is incapable of receiving the things of God. You have to understand the nature of man before considering his choice/will. Pray tell, where does his choice spring out from? Will he choose against his heart desires. No.

why is resisting the truth a problem God has with these people in the above-shared verses yet only He can irresistibly draw men to Him?

Everything boils down to your lack of understanding of the nature of man. If you understand the spiritual dearth lurking in every man, you will throw away the heresy of free will. Start from the root and you wont get to this laughable conclusion of "its our choice"

You lack understanding of God's sovereignty and your poor attempt at gasping it makes a god a monster who torments in hell forever men precisely for denying them the only ticket out of hell.

God's sovereignty includes binding Himself by decisions of men. Study Genesis. God allowed Adam to name animals. God stood by and let him do it. That is exactly how God treats men. He can influence everything under the sun but He allows choice including rejecting Him and accepting him

An2elect2:
Ayoku777, vooks, Jiggaz, Scholar8200

If ten murderers are convicted and all sentenced to life imprisonment and the president exercises his prerogative right to pardon a prisoner and he orders for the release of lets say five of them, is he responsible for the remaining five who will have to stay with their life term jail? No. The are completely responsible for their evil deeds.

However, the remaining who received mercy will forever be grateful to the President.

Apply this analogy to what we are saying.

You guys who believe in man's choice will not accuse the President of unfairness. Why? because He is not responsible for the crimes of all them and would have simply allowed all to rot in jail, but out of his constitutional right/power he pardoned five.

It is the same for the sinner and salvation. All of us are by nature children of wrath but God because of His love according to His sovereign will decided to have mercy on those whom he had chosen.

We speak the truth, and you attack us? May you see.

God's mercy is offered to all some accept others reject. That's why Bible says, "as many as RECEIVE Him..." and ,"WHOSOEVER believes in Him"

Let's say the president offered pardon to all but some rejected! Will those that reject die because they were not chosen for pardon or because they were prisoners?NO. They will die because they rejected the president's offer.

And if those who received the pardon commit a heinous crime and get caught will they be imprisoned? YES. Meaning their freedom after pardon is conditioned on the fact that they avoid crime!

An2elect2:
Ayoku777, vooks, Jiggaz, Scholar8200

If ten murderers are convicted and all sentenced to life imprisonment and the president exercises his prerogative right to pardon a prisoner and he orders for the release of lets say five of them, is he responsible for the remaining five who will have to stay with their life term jail? No. The are completely responsible for their evil deeds.

However, the remaining who received mercy will forever be grateful to the President.

Apply this analogy to what we are saying.

You guys who believe in man's choice will not accuse the President of unfairness. Why? because He is not responsible for the crimes of all them and would have simply allowed all to rot in jail, but out of his constitutional right/power he pardoned five.

It is the same for the sinner and salvation. All of us are by nature children of wrath but God because of His love according to His sovereign will decided to have mercy on those whom he had chosen.

We speak the truth, and you attack us? May you see.

God's mercy is offered to all some accept others reject. That's why Bible says, "as many as RECEIVE Him..." and ,"WHOSOEVER believes in Him", "Grace ... that brings salvation has appeared to all men". John 1:12, 3:16, Titus 2:11-12


Let's say the president offered pardon to all but some rejected! Will those that reject die because they were not chosen for pardon or because they were prisoners?NO. They will die because they rejected the president's offer.

Now going by your analogy, will it be just for the President to kill those that were not offered mercy on the grounds that they rejected His offer of mercy?!Will that be fair?
John 3:18
18 The one who believes in him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Mark 16:16
15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who does not believe will be condemned

Why preach to every creature if mercy will be withheld from some? Why send the servants to call everybody for the supper only to make some watch while others are served? And then chase them away for rejecting a meal they were never offered?


And if those who received the pardon commit a heinous crime and get caught will they be imprisoned? YES. Meaning their freedom after pardon is conditioned on the fact that they avoid crime!

vooks:
This is a classic example of proof texting. Quoting scriptures out of context to drive a weak point home. It is also known as Gish galloping; overwhelming your opponent with too many points at a go and interpreting their inability to respond as fast as vindication of your position.

Let's look at your statements

This is a contradictory statement. Break it down.
1. Gifts are 'not conditioned on man's choice'.
2. Gifts are freely given to all of them who believe by faith in 'concert with God's sovereign choice'

Note the condition in #2 of 'believing by faith'. It means those who don't believe or 'believe by faith' can't access the gifts
Unless of course you think 'believing by faith' is equally part of these gifts. You subscribe to this.

If believing is a gift from God, why would he be angry at disbelief yet He is the one who has denied them this gift of 'believing by faith'?

In each of these instances, there is clear disappointment at resisting the truth or unbelief;

Mark 6:6 (KJV)
And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV)
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Acts 7:51 (KJV)
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

2 Timothy 3:8 (KJV)
Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.


why is resisting the truth a problem God has with these people in the above-shared verses yet only He can irresistibly draw men to Him?


You lack understanding of God's sovereignty and your poor attempt at gasping it makes a god a monster who torments in hell forever men precisely for denying them the only ticket out of hell.

You are the one making God look like a monster. God is not under any obligation to save any man. All of us are by constitution haters of God and deserve eternal damnation. If God should judge us based on our works/ choices non will have eternal life.

Question for you: Where do your choices originate from?

An2elect2:
Ayoku777, vooks, Jiggaz, Scholar8200

If ten murderers are convicted and all sentenced to life imprisonment and the president exercises his prerogative right to pardon a prisoner and he orders for the release of lets say five of them, is he responsible for the remaining five who will have to stay with their life term jail? No. The are completely responsible for their evil deeds.

However, the remaining who received mercy will forever be grateful to the President.

Apply this analogy to what we are saying.

You guys who believe in man's choice will not accuse the President of unfairness. Why? because He is not responsible for the crimes of all them and would have simply allowed all to rot in jail, but out of his constitutional right/power he pardoned five.

It is the same for the sinner and salvation. All of us are by nature children of wrath but God because of His love according to His sovereign will decided to have mercy on those whom he had chosen.

We speak the truth, and you attack us? May you see.

Let me ask you a simple question; so simple one word answer would suffice.

DO YOU BELIEVE GOD WANTS ALL MEN SAVED? Yes or No.

Don't tiptoe, don get ambiguous, don't be scared of shooting yourself in the leg.

I need an honest answer so I can know where we are in this debate.

Shalom

ayoku777:


Let me ask you a simple question; so simple one word answer would suffice.

DO YOU BELIEVE GOD WANTS ALL MEN SAVED? Yes or No.

Don't tiptoe, don get ambiguous, don't be scared of shooting yourself in the leg.

I need an honest answer so I can know where we are in this debate.

Shalom

Don't be tricky to get away with you ignorance, all our answers must be backed by scriptures and all given precept by precept Go back to my previous posts where i talked about God's election and provide your answer to it first.

vooks:


You miss the point which is human responsibility. If we are not responsible whatsoever then these admonitions should be directed at whoever (God) is responsible.

If preaching Christ is demonic, so be it

No human being is responsible for salvation save Jesus Christ and Him crucified. You don't preach Christ except your opinions that is what i referrred to as demonic.

John 15:6 (KJV)
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

James 5:19-20 (ESV)
19 My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, 20 let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

James too was demon possessed for telling us we would save the sinning believer's soul from death.

Hebrews 10:26-31 (ESV)
26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
The Author of Hebrews too was demon possessed.

Only this amateur theologian has Holy Spirit it seems. I wonder why God never thought leaving a slot for him in the canon to pen one or two books

All these have been addressed in so many posts here and other eternal security skeptics threads on nairaland. No need to belabour the point.

An2elect2:


Don't be tricky to get away with you ignorance, all our answers must be backed by scriptures and all given precept by precept Go back to my previous posts where i talked about God's election and provide your answer to it first.

Just what I thought!

The righteous are as bold as a lion truly. When you can't even be bold about a question as simple as this, it shows even you are having a hard time connecting the dots of your heresis.

I've answered your question about election; and I've used scriptures for the answers. I've shown how that since election is of grace and grace is by faith; then the elect are those have faith in Christ.

And since Peter said we should give diligence to making our election sure; it means it is not inherently sure. We have to keep the faith to make it sure.

I have answered all your questions about election which you are free to disagree with. But you can not even answer my simple question without tiptoeing and getting ambiguous.

Does God want ALL MEN saved? Yes or no?

Shalom!

Scholar8200:

James 1:14-16
14 But every person is tempted when he is drawn away, enticed and baited by his own evil desire (lust, passions).
15 Then the evil desire, when it has conceived, gives birth to sin, and sin, when it is fully matured, [size=14pt]brings forth death[/size].
16 Do not be misled, my beloved brethren.

The wages of sin remains death.

Already addressed. Fornication or any other sin for that matter does not LEAD TO LOSS OF SALVATION. If it does even you won't be saved. He that is without sin should cast the first stone.Except you are telling us here you are PERFECT.

ABDULADINO:
Already addressed. Fornication or any other sin for that matter does not LEAD TO LOSS OF SALVATION. If it does even you won't be saved. He that is without sin should cast the first stone.Except you are telling us here you are PERFECT.

Kindly re-read that quote!
Bible:
15 Then the evil desire, when it has conceived, gives birth to sin, and sin,when it is fully matured, [size=14pt]brings forth death[/size].
16 [size=13pt]Do not be misled, my beloved brethren[/size].
James 1:15,16

ABDULADINO:Fornication or any other sin for that matter does not LEAD TO LOSS OF SALVATION

Who do we follow?

ayoku777:


Just what I thought!

The righteous are as bold as a lion truly. When you can't even be bold about a question as simple as this, it shows even you are having a hard time connecting the dots of your heresis.

I've answered your question about election. That since election is of grace and grace is by faith; then the elect are those have faith in Christ.

And since Peter said we should give diligence to making our election sure; it means it is not inherently sure. We have to keep the faith to make it sure.

I have answered all your questions about election which you are free to disagree with. But you can not even answer my simple question without tiptoeing and getting ambiguous.

Does God want ALL MEN saved? Yes or no?

Shalom!

Go back and read my post on election. You don't know what it means I debunked your erroneous explanation of election, am waiting for you to do same?

Have i been shy with words? buhahahahahaha You don't know what bold as a lion is too,lol common!

An2elect2:


Go back and read my post on election. You don't know what it means I debunked your erroneous explanation of election, am waiting for you to do same?

Have i been shy with words? buhahahahahaha You don't know what bold as a lion is too,lol common!

You debunked nothing.

You couldn't prove that those who the Holy Spirit said would depart from the faith were never believers.

You couldn't prove that those who Paul said would be cut off were unbelievers.

You couldn't answer if there are unelected believers or believers who are not elected.

You debunked nothing.

And now; all you're doing is getting defensive, evasive and agigated over an easy question that a simple yes or no will suffice.

Does God want ALL MEN saved? Yes or No!

How hard is yes or no to a question like this if there is nothing to hide?

Shalom!

Scholar8200:
Kindly re-read that quote!
Bible:
15 Then the evil desire, when it has conceived, gives birth to sin, and sin,when it is fully matured, [size=14pt]brings forth death[/size].
16 [size=13pt]Do not be misled, my beloved brethren[/size].
James 1:15,16

ABDULADINO:Fornication or any other sin for that matter does not LEAD TO LOSS OF SALVATION

Who do we follow?

Like i said already addressed. I quoted Paul earlier about a young man inbreeding yet Paul was confident his spirit will be saved. You are going around in circles really. IS THE SCRIPTURE HERE TALKING ABOUT SALVATION?

ABDULADINO:
No human being is responsible for salvation save Jesus Christ and Him crucified. You don't preach Christ except your opinions that is what i referrred to as demonic.
All these have been addressed in so many posts here and other eternal security skeptics threads on nairaland. No need to belabour the point.

Salvation remains God's gift to man. Your responsibility is to accept it or perish.

Accepting God's grace is human responsibility. But satan does not mind company so he keeps lying to you that you are still in Christ while you are son of Belial

An2elect2:



You are the one making God look like a monster. God is not under any obligation to save any man. All of us are by constitution haters of God and deserve eternal damnation. If God should judge us based on our works/ choices non will have eternal life.

Question for you: Where do your choices originate from?

Quickly answer me. Where do infants go qhen they die seeing they don't even have the capacity to accept God's gift?

Your God holds the key to salvation and he denies them to all but a few. That's a sadistic monster.

An2elect2:
Ayoku777, vooks, Jiggaz, Scholar8200

If ten murderers are convicted and all sentenced to life imprisonment and the president exercises his prerogative right to pardon a prisoner and he orders for the release of lets say five of them, is he responsible for the remaining five who will have to stay with their life term jail? No. The are completely responsible for their evil deeds.

However, the remaining who received mercy will forever be grateful to the President.

Apply this analogy to what we are saying.

You guys who believe in man's choice will not accuse the President of unfairness. Why? because He is not responsible for the crimes of all them and would have simply allowed all to rot in jail, but out of his constitutional right/power he pardoned five.

It is the same for the sinner and salvation. All of us are by nature children of wrath but God because of His love according to His sovereign will decided to have mercy on those whom he had chosen.

We speak the truth, and you attack us? May you see.

Let me ask you a simple question
What is the fate of those who never get as much a chance to hear the gospel like your late great great great grandfather?

[size=15pt]Does God want ALL MEN saved? Yes or No![/size]

A simple question and these amateur theologians scamper like bats at day break. Let me paraphrase it
[size=15pt]Did Jesus lay down his life for ALL men?[/size]



Cc Ayoku777

i think An2elect is going out of the line.
God wants all men to be saved.

1tim2:4
who will have all men to be saved,and to come unto the knowledge of the truth
1John2:2:-
Jesus is the propitiation for our sins and not for ours only,but also for the sins of the whole world.

Rom5:18:- even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life.

Ayoku777,scholar8200,vooks

vooks:

Salvation remains God's gift to man. Your responsibility is to accept it or perish.

Accepting God's grace is human responsibility. But satan does not mind company so he keeps lying to you that you are still in Christ while you are son of Belial

Lol@ son of belial. It is the Father that draws the heart of men to HIMSELF. God knows the end from the beginning.

ABDULADINO:
Lol@ son of belial. It is the Father that draws the heart of men to HIMSELF. God knows the end from the beginning.

Ignoramus,
Did God FAIL to draw Adam away from rebellion, thereby condemning billions to hell?

God's foreknowledge of everything from eternity does not make him the author of all actions and consequences otherwise sin originated from Him and also Satan's rebellion.

Discard that trash called Calvinism and embrace the Word of God which is able to save you

sportsmaster:
i think An2elect is going out of the line.
God wants all men to be saved.

1tim2:4
who will have all men to be saved,and to come unto the knowledge of the truth
1John2:2:-
Jesus is the propitiation for our sins and not for ours only,but also for the sins of the whole world.

Rom5:18:- even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life.

Ayoku777,scholar8200,vooks

When they are cornered they claim your question has been tackled elsewhere.
They love doctrines of men more than the Word of God

vooks can be very angry some times. just calm down bro. These guy don dey para dey post.

sportsmaster:
vooks can be very angry some times.
just calm down bro.
These guy don dey para dey post.

OK. Thank you for your wise counsel

ABDULADINO:
Like i said already addressed. I quoted Paul earlier about a young man inbreeding yet Paul was confident his spirit will be saved. You are going around in circles really. IS THE SCRIPTURE HERE TALKING ABOUT SALVATION?

Going around in circles? James was telling a couple of brethren that temptation should not be yielded to else sin comes in and with sin death?