DeepSight:


Thank you. That is part of my impression aside from perhaps being the seat of other non physical attributes of the being.
However, having said that - why do you suppose that the frontal brain os over developed as opposed to the back-brain?

Lets take a look at our environment.. Is the world moving upward or downward in terms of morality etc?

FOLYKAZE:


Been neutral is not atheism.

neutralism is atheism... but the new world atheists have now included the abuse of the God Head

Remilekun101:


Lets take a look at our environment.. Is the world moving upward or downward in terms of morality etc?

Debatable. I don't see witch burnings, holocausts, atlantic slave trades, twin killings and much of the like being as easily permitted in todays world as once occurred: even when we grant that there are modern less barbaric forms of many such evils.

The question as to whether the moral fibre of the world has improved or is improving is debatable. many would say it has indeed improved and is improving.

Remilekun101:

Check the addition.. i have continued the topic

I also have answered your questions there:

https://www.nairaland.com/2697168/atheism-hypocrisy#39473201
https://www.nairaland.com/2697168/atheism-hypocrisy/1#39490384
https://www.nairaland.com/2697168/atheism-hypocrisy/1#39491658

But I have yet to see a reply to them from you.

Remilekun101:

neutralism is atheism... but the new world atheists have now included the abuse of the God Head

Neutrality is secularism. Both does not rule out the existence of God but only dont show conern to any God

AmunRaOlodumare:

I think I said it simply but I can explain it to you again. Of course atheism, agnotism are new words that didn't exist in African languages in their exact dictionary definition. Those are words that even ordinary people (Europeans, Americans, English speakers in general) don't often use. Even those people who are actually agnostic and atheist. Intellectuals and scientists use words like atheism or agnosticism. But said simply, most African traditions don't worship the creator god directly while the creator god is said to have existed, he is viewed as distant. Which is a view that approach Agnostic theism. A form of agnostic theism. A greater importance is given to our ancestors, our own spirit, our community, our values and customs, etc.

Take a look at the definition of Agnostic theism (sorry for using Wiki but it's ok for simple definition sometimes):




Consider this: It can also mean that there is one high ruler, but it is unknowable or unknown who or what it is.

Isn't it very close to African traditional belief? No African traditions pretend to know god directly. Any human who do is obviously lying to you.

I'm sure you can nitpick the exact definition of Agnostic theism and find many contradiction with traditional beliefs (for example, the high god is unknowable but the spirits are much more knowable. They can even be our grandfather for example). Does all "Agnostic theists", whoever they are, really allow so much knowledge about spirits and ancestors, etc. Still I think traditional belief in Africa can be viewed as a form of Agnostic theism. Would traditionalists define themselves as such: no. Very few English speakers beside intellectuals do anyway (some ordinary people are agnostic theists without knowing the dictionary definition of it). It's just us, me and you and those reading those lines, as intellectuals, that we can see the similarities.

As a scientists you understand why African religions were developed that way. It is preposterous to pretend to know what god is thinking, what god wants, the exact nature of god, etc. It can lead to many contradiction (why does god -the most powerful being- allow this and that, why doesn't he speaks to us directly, etc, etc). Nobody saw him, knows his exact intentions with humans either, but many people feel him through the spiritual essence given to our ancestors and all matter around us. African traditions are knowledge about the spiritual world, not blind faith. This knowledge can have some differences from one family to another, from one town to another, one ethnic group to another, etc. For example, some people could have knowledge of Ogun either under a different name or with different attributes and stories around him, etc. Some could have no knowledge of him at all. It is the nature of knowledge to be different from one person to another, from one period of time to another. Ancient Greeks (and Ancient Egyptians) were themselves traditionalists who, combined with the development of writing, lead them to science, because their traditional belief were not about blind faith or doctrines (about what god wants or not wants) but simply knowledge about our universe which according to them included the metaphysical world as well as mathematics, chemistry, medicine, etc.

Thanks for your contribution sir.

Agnostic theism is opposing to atheism. African theists relate with God through intermediaries like demigods and orisha. This proof that they believe these gods exist to which atheism oppose

FOLYKAZE:


Eledumare is the supreme being in Yoruba spiritualism.

I think of Eledumare as the source of everything that exist. This is the reason why Yoruba people tag it as the maker of infinite possibilities.

The fact I dont understand is why it is not worshipped. Why no one claim contact but it remain the unravel mystery.

Iba Edumare.

In Yoruba cosmology,yes. That is the name given to the divine spark within us by the Yorubas. We are the Eledumare. The goal so far is to discover it and come to know the fact that it has been a game all along.

However many of us are trapped in re-legion. Worshiping someone means we are not self appreciative. It's like a black man wishing to be Arab or Asian. Embracing the Eledumare means appreciating that you exist and will always exist,since we are pure energy.

Remilekun101:

neutralism is atheism... but the new world atheists have now included the abuse of the God Head

I agree with this in a way. But there is no God head.

FOLYKAZE:


Thanks for your contribution sir.

Agnostic theism is opposing to atheism. African theists relate with God through intermediaries like demigods and orisha. This proof that they believe these gods exist to which atheism oppose

Agnostic theism is a form of Atheism

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/Theological_positions.svg/513px-Theological_positions.svg.png

FOLYKAZE:


Thanks for your contribution sir.

Agnostic theism is opposing to atheism. African theists relate with God through intermediaries like demigods and orisha. This proof that they believe these gods exist to which atheism oppose

Agnostic theism is a form of Atheism

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/Theological_positions.svg/513px-Theological_positions.svg.png

In the image above, it is included in the Atheist circle (atheist category).

The Theist worship a god and see themselves as his footstools and slaves. That doesn't go well with the Atheist,so they block him out. Agnostic see themselves as the divine,hence acknowledge the Bible god was as a scam. Basically some Agnostic are open to astrology,psychic abilities and being a God.

AmunRaOlodumare:


Agnostic theism is a form of Atheism

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/Theological_positions.svg/513px-Theological_positions.svg.png

In the image above, it is included in the Atheist circle.

Do you in anyway mistaken agnostic atheism to agnostic theism?

I wouldn't call myself an Agnostic tho. I am certainly none of the three.

ifeness:
I wouldn't call myself an Agnostic tho. I am certainly none of the three.

As I said above, many people in the world who are agnostic don't know or use the word. Atheist, agnostic, etc are mostly intellectual words used by scientists to categorize people. In real life, there's more gray areas and it's hard to pigeonhole people and their beliefs. People don't like to be pigeonholed either. It is a scholar outlook (analysis) of traditional beliefs. The most important aspect is that our traditions are viewed by traditionalists as knowledge about the metaphysical world. They are knowledge. That's why it leads to science, medicine, metallurgy, agriculture, etc.

AmunRaOlodumare:

As I said above, many people in the world who are agnostic don't know or use the word. Atheist, agnostic, etc are mostly intellectual words used by scientists to categorize people. In real life, there's more gray areas and it's hard to pigeonhole people and their beliefs. People don't like to be pigeonholed either. It is a scholar outlook (analysis) of traditional beliefs. The most important aspect is that our traditions are viewed by traditionalists as knowledge about the metaphysical world. They are knowledge. That's why it leads to science, medicine, metallurgy, agriculture, etc.

And since we are at the beginning of the Age of Aquarius,the energy is changing,more people will become atheist.There will be less and less theist due to access to information via social media. And obviously Agnostics are not barrier to science,in fact they are extremely supportive.

FOLYKAZE:


Do you in anyway mistaken agnostic atheism to agnostic theism?

It is a possibility. My own graph show that agnostic theism is a different category than atheism. I've seen different categorization before but can't find it which included agnostic theism in the atheism category. Let's say it's part of the same scale in a in-between position between theists and atheists. As a agnostic theist, we can gather, you completely understand people who don't believe in god, religion, spirits, metaphysical world if they have not experienced it. There's no "leap of faith" in traditional religions. Religions is something to be experienced and lived in everyday life. It's not a doctrine but knowledge about the universe which according to them include the metaphysical world.

AmunRaOlodumare:

It is a possibility. My own graph show that agnostic theism is a different category than atheism. I've seen different categorization before but can't find it which included agnostic theism in the atheism category. Let's say it's part of the same scale in a in-between position between theists and atheists. As a agnostic theist, we can gather, you completely understand people who don't believe in god, religion, spirits, metaphysical world if they have not experienced it. There's no "leap of faith" in traditional religions. Religions is something to be experienced and lived in everyday life. It's not a doctrine but knowledge about the universe which according to them include the metaphysical world.

This is nicely put.

I agree traditional religion is more related to agnostic theism. We care less about if God exist or not in our religion.

The point I disagree with you is where you said Africans were atheists before contact with western atheism.

We could be agnostics but far from atheism because every Africans agree that Supremem God exists

FOLYKAZE:


This is nicely put.

I agree traditional religion is more related to agnostic theism. We care less about if God exist or not in our religion.

The point I disagree with you is where you said Africans were atheists before contact with western atheism.

We could be agnostics but far from atheism because every Africans agree that Supremem God exists

Yes, I don't think Africans were atheists either (under this restricted definition). In general, traditionalists acknowledge the existence of a divine creator of all things even if they admittedly don't know much about those far away times. Although atheism is a perfectly understandable position for someone who doesn't have any or limited spiritual knowledge (which I think was rare in traditional African societies).

ifeness:


And since we are at the beginning of the Age of Aquarius,the energy is changing,more people will become atheist.There will be less and less theist due to access to information via social media. And obviously Agnostics are not barrier to science,in fact they are extremely supportive.

There's no doubt more people will abandon religion and become atheist with the spread of literacy, science and education. It's already the case. Science and education is based on observation and experiment. And you can't rationally believe something you didn't experience in any way. Let's recall that even in Europe most people converted were illiterate and had little knowledge of science. The modern education system is recent. As in Africa, it was done with the 'carrot and stick' approach. Most of them did it eventually because it was socially the right thing to do to avoid being burned like a witch and to gain/maintain advantageous position in the society/government/kingdom. When the social pressure from following a specific religion is removed, many people won't follow any religion as a personal choice. As it it the case actually around the world.

AmunRaOlodumare:

Yes, I don't think Africans were atheists either. In general, traditionalists acknowledge the existence of a divine creator of all things even if they admittedly don't know much about those far away times. Although atheism is a perfectly understandable position for someone who doesn't have any or limited spiritual knowledge (which I think was rare in traditional African societies).

Atheisms is nothing but the noise of people who cannot justify a religion belief.

They are not ignorant about spiritualism. I can tell that they are mostly ex-faith men. So they know about their ex faith but only make noise, curse and wail because they justify their ex belief

FOLYKAZE:


Atheisms is nothing but the noise of people who cannot justify a religion belief.

They are not ignorant about spiritualism. I can tell that they are mostly ex-faith men. So they know about their ex faith but only make noise, curse and wail because they justify their ex belief

I understand what you mean.

For this discussion, we can say there's 2 kinds of atheists.

1-Those who describe themselves as atheists. They use the word 'atheist'. Usually intellectuals who rejected Christianity or Islam and hold to the label of Atheism with pride. For them, Atheism is a self-affirmation position. A rejection of what their parents or societies told them about religion. They are proud to tell you they are atheist. It's almost a religion. It's a strong ideology based on their rejection of anything religious. They see it as irrational.

2-Those are not intellectual, never use the word atheism, but still don't believe in religions. They don't make a big case out of it but they, trying to use their words "don't believe in religion and all those religious god stuff". They received education in science and even if they are not necessarily good in schools they can gather religion is irrational. Made up beliefs. But in reality, those people have limited spiritual knowledge (they also, most of the time, have no interests in receiving any spiritual knowledge either. They are almost allergic to anything religious based on their limited experience with it).

The people you talk about are from the 1st category. For them, Atheism is a strong belief. They have completely rejected christianity and/or islam. They also reject any traditional religions, buddhism, shinto, wiccan, druids stuff they know little about but still place in the same category as christianity and islam. So a lot of them are ignorant about spiritualism. Their spiritual knowledge is basically Abrahamic faiths and mainstream knowledge of traditional religions which are tainted by Abrahamic propaganda.

Even recently, I watched some shows about the Vikings, but the religion of the viking are presented from an abrahamic point of view. For example, they refer to the creator god in plural, they are almost proselytising ("fukk your gods, we believe in Thor" paraphrasing what they tell christian priests in the TV shows/movies about them, when in reality they would view the christian faith, at least at first, as any other faiths. As the beliefs of any neighboring towns or ethnic groups). Under those circumstances I understand people who view any religious knowledge as wrong.

The people you talk about have a restricted view about religions which they see through the abrahamic prism. So a lot of them are ignorant about spiritualism. Their spiritual knowledge is basically abrahamic faiths and mainstream knowledge of traditional religions which are tainted by abrahamic propaganda.

ifeness:


In Yoruba cosmology,yes. That is the name given to the divine spark within us by the Yorubas. We are the Eledumare. The goal so far is to discover it and come to know the fact that it has been a game all along.

However many of us are trapped in re-legion. Worshiping someone means we are not self appreciative. It's like a black man wishing to be Arab or Asian. Embracing the Eledumare means appreciating that you exist and will always exist,since we are pure energy.

The last time I checked. . . .Oba bi Olorun o Si.

Ko si eni bi Eledumare.

I hope you understand the Yoruba words there?

ifeness:


I agree with this in a way. But there is no God head.

that is your opinion

DeepSight:


Debatable. I don't see witch burnings, holocausts, atlantic slave trades, twin killings and much of the like being as easily permitted in todays world as once occurred: even when we grant that there are modern less barbaric forms of many such evils.

The question as to whether the moral fibre of the world has improved or is improving is debatable. many would say it has indeed improved and is improving.

during those periods you mentioned.. FORCE was used

Remilekun101:


that is your opinion

It is not my opinion. It is a fact. Do not ask me to prove there is no god as you cannot ask me to prove you don't have a billion pounds in your bank account. If you did,it will be obvious. The only god i know is humans.

ifeness:


It is not my opinion. It is a fact. Do not ask me to prove there is no god as you cannot ask me to prove you don't have a billion pounds in your bank account. If you did,it will be obvious. The only god i know is humans.

for it to be a FACT, it must have been proved.....

Remilekun101:


for it to be a FACT, it must have been proved.....

He said the only God he knows is human.

What proof do you want?

That you dont know Man existing or what?

Remilekun101:

neutralism is atheism... but the new world atheists have now included the abuse of the God Head

Nuetrality is the idea of not taking sides or position. In this case, two sides or position is acknowledged but not accepted.

Atheism do not even accept this side exist.

I hope you get the difference here?

Remilekun101:


for it to be a FACT, it must have been proved.....

I am the one asking you to prove the you claimed exist does really exist. I cannot prove it doesn't because it doesn't.

FOLYKAZE:


He said the only God he knows is human.

What proof do you want?

That you dont know Man existing or what?

There is error in that statement... What makes Man a GOD?

ifeness:


I am the one asking you to prove the you claimed exist does really exist. I cannot prove it doesn't because it doesn't.

You said man is God.. then for man to be a God, there must be a CORE ATTRIBUTE you have seen that existed in man

FOLYKAZE:


Nuetrality is the idea of not taking sides or position. In this case, two sides or position is acknowledged but not accepted.

Atheism do not even accept this side exist.

I hope you get the difference here?

Oh i get you now

Remilekun101:


There is error in that statement... What makes Man a GOD?

power, admiration, adoration and influence.

Every conscious person in Yoruba spirituality are gods.

Jesus christ acknowledge men are Gods.

In imperial cults, Apotheosis state, and ancient civilization, we men are Gods