Tbamo:

I'm a doctor and when I was working in the country there were several johesu strikes and none I repeat none paralysed the work in the hospitals. the house officers were given new responsibilities and even residents from pathology took over the blood bank and things were never better organised so don't kid ur selves. Only doctors can shut down hospitals!

End time lie from the pit of hell during strike the blood bank is always locked. Who cross matched the blood you used? HO or Residents? Both don't even know how it's done let alone do it. U think it's by mixing? Bros Doctor at ur age u shouldn't act ignorant besides Dr's don't sign result in Medical Laboratory. Except the blood bank u r talking about is NBTS.

Stop deceiving urslf and deceiving the public.

otswag:
hahaha! Its remarkable how u cunningly used d term "students" to describe even the senior regs so as to indirectly beat down the view of their competence in the eyes of the public.. Well, u aren't wrong. Residency is a training program so they really are "trainees" for a specialty. however, the moment ur issued a graduation certificate and a medical license, u have the absolute backing and trust of d govt to see and treat patients as a general practitioner. Yes! House officers included with the guidance of other senior drs. So don't u dare come over here and imply that only consultants have d competence to treat patients. If u expect consultants to sit down in the hospital waiting for patients like they are still house officers, then u have no idea what d word "consultant" really means.

Consultants are paid to consult and treat not hand over to their trainees" and comes when their attentions are needed, they are being paid huge ...damn it.!!
Well, General practitioners in sane climates do some level of residency...using US and UK as a case.
House officers, MOs, reg, senior regs are not specialist and are not supposed to roam free in a particular specialty, they should be monitored. They are not authorised to practice the stated specialty they are in that's why they are placed under a consultant. We allows a lot of impunity in Nigeria. Aren't you shooting yourself on the foot per the bolded, then why is the consultant needed.

joyandfaith:




how can u expand ur scope of services by encroaching on doctors scope of services.

There is nothing like 'encroaching' As long as you are trained for what you do. Nigeria doesn't have as much first line health care givers as it should. If we have Nurse practitioners, prescribing and treating patients or pharmacists prescribing in line with an expanded scope of knowledge and practice, it will be of great advantage to everybody. It happens in uk, canada and us. Our doctors here value their pride more than the patients.

Tbamo:

funny you go the specialist route so you admit his uncle is not a specialist but he has enough surgical skills to perform a CS yet his skills can't repair an hernia, or simply reduce intracranial pressure??
when I argue with my engineer brother on how to repair our generator I do what you are doing I throw about lingo so he will think I know what I'm talking about, but the truth is deep down I know he knows infinitely more than I do if his uncle can perform a CS then he should be able to perform basic surgical procedures in many specialties

Stop telling stories....Basic surgical procedure? Is surgical removal of subdural hematoma a basic surgical procedure? What type of hernia repair falls under a basic surgical procedure ?
Herniorrraphy,hernioplasty or herniotomy?

I know enough to determine when someone is reaching out and insinuating what isn't there.

TheArchangel:
Haha... You are funny. I ain't questioning if I want to land the wellpaid job but might resign later when it is laid bare. Professional responsibility.... Bwahaha.

Lol, might seem funny.

But that's why being medic is a calling, not just a job.

High ethical standards and responsibilities come with it.

I think someone just said something nasty to me that's why it was hidden. ^^^^^^ above
Guys please calm down I want whatever makes you happy if earning the same salary with me will make you happy then please by all means strike away.

TheArchangel:
Consultants are paid to consult and treat not hand over to their trainees" and comes when their attentions are needed, they are being paid huge ...damn it.!!
Well, General practitioners in sane climates do some level of residency...using US and UK as a case.
House officers, MOs, reg, senior regs are not specialist and are not supposed to roam free in a particular specialty, they should be monitored. They are not authorised to practice the stated specialty they are in that's why they are placed under a consultant. We allows a lot of impunity in Nigeria. Aren't you shooting yourself on the foot per the bolded, then why is the consultant needed.

what do you mean They are not authorised to practice the stated specialty they are in? Who is roaming free? Do you understand how d residency program works at all? Madam, just say u dont understand if u don't know so we can enlighten you. Its apparent your ignorance is really rooted very deep. In the residency program, for every level u get go, there are specific medical/surgical cases you are trained to handle. Infact, in surgery, before one is allowed to write a promotional exam, u should have performed an already stated number of surgeries/surgical procedures first. So what do u mean they shldnt practice in their specialty until they become consultants? Oh! U think medicine is to sit down in class and memorise surgical steps then u write an exam and voila! U don turn consultant? Lol. . U really are funny! They were put through stepwise on how to perform those surgeries over time and are only left to perform the procedures alone when d consultant trust them to do a good job. Also, so wetin happen if consultants earn that much? Have you gone to other fields to ask what consultants earn and ask if they sit down at work every day from 8-4? Madam! That is not even worth arguing about so lets not go there.

TheArchangel:
Stop telling stories....Basic surgical procedure? Is surgical removal of subdural hematoma a basic surgical procedure? What type of hernia repair falls under a basic surgical procedure ?
Herniorrraphy,hernioplasty or herniotomy?

I know enough to determine when someone is reaching out and insinuating what isn't there.

oh good so I don't have to dumb down for you so you think a nurse of the road should be able to perform a CS? cos that's the original argument? hmm
and Yep they all follow the same principles of general surgery and a general surgeon should be able to carry out all of the above when under pressure madam!!
and you are doing it again the thing I d with my bro! throwing lingo around!!

otswag:
what do you mean They are not authorised to practice the stated specialty they are in? Who is roaming free? Do you understand how d residency program works at all? Madam, just say u dont understand if u don't know so we can enlighten you. Its apparent your ignorance is really rooted very deep. In the residency program, for every level u get go, there are specific medical/surgical cases you are trained to handle. Infact, in surgery, before one is allowed to write a promotional exam, u should have performed an already stated number of surgeries/surgical procedures first. So what do u mean they shldnt practice in their specialty until they become consultants? Oh! U think medicine is to sit down in class and memorise surgical steps then u write an exam and voila! U don turn consultant? Lol. . U really are funny!

You don't get it, do you.? A specialty you are not licensed in you should not roam free irrespective of the number of procedures/ surgeries you've performed. The case is still under a consultant and the consultant monitors the procedures specifically covered in his specialty. As a general surgery resident, all the surgeries performed are under the consultant's name and none under the resident's name and no resident can perform surgery outside of their training facility cos they are not authorised and licensed. Doing that is tantamount to quackery, pure and simple.

francizy:



Hehehehehe, on a very good day, if all powder metallurgy firms, polymer, ceramic, composite, biotechnology, nanotechnology, steel, aluminium, mining, mineral processing , etc industries, world over should fold up, you'll in the health sector are in deep shiiit.. That's just my field alone oh, I never even add electrical, electronics, computer, mechanical, engineers oh...

So better respect us before I tear you Okija slap!

On a very good day, me know say na Lab scientists them go dey ginger this whole thing pass, as in na them go carry the matter for head like agege bread. Cuz the kind importance way these people dey attach to themselves pass that of all professions for Nigeria as a whole...

Shebi new testing techniques such as Real-time PCR don comot, soon some of them go begin gnash teeth especially when them no go upgrade...

Technology and innovation cuts across all fields. in fact those at the forefront of innovation are actually called scientist irrespective of their field and whenever technological innovation occurs status quo are broken and new opportunities emerges.

Tbamo:



oh good so I don't have to dumb down for you so you think a nurse of the road should be able to perform a CS? cos that's the original argument? hmm
and Yep they all follow the same principles of general surgery and a general surgeon should be able to carry out all of the above when under pressure madam!!
and you are doing it again the thing I d with my bro! throwing lingo around!!

I do not think so cos that's quackery.
Yes a general surgeon trained and licensed can,not your run in the mill and green in the ear everyday doctor.
I write what I know. Medical knowledge are thought in schools to be utilized and it is not made for a specific group to understand, it is the practice that differs.

TheArchangel:
You don't get it, do you.? A specialty you are not licensed in you should not roam free irrespective of the number of procedures/ surgeries you've performed. The case is still under a consultant and the consultant monitors the procedures specifically covered in his specialty. As a general surgery resident, all the surgeries performed are under the consultant's name and none under the resident's name and no resident can perform surgery outside of their training facility cos they are not authorised and licensed. Doing that is tantamount to quackery, pure and simple.

madam, if u work in a teaching hospital, u will know that what you stated is exactly the status quo. Intact, if a resident Dr mismanages a patient, the consultant in charge plus d resident involved will have some explaining to do. Hence, most consultant won't want to smear their name by allowing residents to handle surgeries they aren't well trained for. If a resident decides to do that outside the training hospital without the consultants permission and messes up, He alone will suffer the consequences. There are bad eggs in every institution so dont come here and start generalising because some over ambitious drs that u heard or read about allegedly caused some havoc.You seem like you are familier with the system so y are you acting like an ignoramus? I believe u shld know all these . All that your talk about not being licensed to perform surgeries as a resident Dr is bullsh*t. As a senior reg in surgery dept, if you can't prove with evidence that you can do surgeries and manage complications as a consultant would, u can never be allowed to even write d final exam to turn a consultant. Now madam! Pls tell me how to achieve that without doing surgeries as a resident. Its just common sense.

When I go thru foreign medical forums, I see some of the reasons why we lag behind. This isn't abt who gets paid more, who is more valuable and other pettiness, it's abt team work, how to knw ur boundaries and respect other professionals. U chose to be who u are, Dr, nurse, pharm and evry other pprofessional and u're all there for the most important person in health care 'the patient'. When u treat other professionals wt disdain becos u spent more yrs in sch and can supposedly do all their work dnt expect them to smile back at u, pple are fighting for their rights yet egoistical, selfish minds had to twist things to serve their purpose. Why is there so much hatred and desire to surpress others? God help us

otswag:
madam, if u work in a teaching hospital, u will know that what you stated is exactly the status quo. Intact, if a resident Dr mismanages a patient, the consultant in charge plus d resident involved will have some explaining to do. Hence, most consultant won't want to smear their name by allowing residents to handle surgeries they aren't well trained for. If a resident decides to do that outside the training hospital without the consultants permission and messes up, He alone will suffer the consequences. There are bad eggs in every institution so dont come here and start generalising because some over ambitious drs that u heard or read about allegedly caused some havoc.You seem like you are familier with the system so y are you acting like an ignoramus? I believe u shld know all these .

We are trying to establish the facts that these residents are still students. You told me not to downplay it but it is necessary.

HaneefahRN:
When I go thru foreign medical forums, I see some of the reasons why we lag behind. This isn't abt who gets paid more, who is more valuable and other pettiness, it's abt team work, how to knw ur boundaries and respect other professionals. U chose to be who u are, Dr, nurse, pharm and evry other pprofessional and u're all there for the most important person in health care 'the patient'. When u treat other professionals wt disdain becos u spent more yrs in sch and can supposedly do all their work dnt expect them to smile back at u, pple are fighting for their rights yet egoistical, selfish minds had to twist things to serve their purpose. Why is there so much hatred and desire to surpress others? God help us

I like this. If only other professionals think like you do

TheArchangel:
We are trying to establish the facts that these residents are still students. You told me not to downplay it but it is necessary.

mtchew!! If u like understand. If u like choose not to. What will be will be. I'm off to more productive things to do

HaneefahRN:
When I go thru foreign medical forums, I see some of the reasons why we lag behind. This isn't abt who gets paid more, who is more valuable and other pettiness, it's abt team work, how to knw ur boundaries and respect other professionals. U chose to be who u are, Dr, nurse, pharm and evry other pprofessional and u're all there for the most important person in health care 'the patient'. When u treat other professionals wt disdain becos u spent more yrs in sch and can supposedly do all their work dnt expect them to smile back at u, pple are fighting for their rights yet egoistical, selfish minds had to twist things to serve their purpose. Why is there so much hatred and desire to surpress others? God help us

Madam,its apparent you've 'travelled far and wide', and now you've brought an issue to the fore. JOHESU should stop pretending they are fighting for the most important person-THE PATIENT, cos the truth is they only care about themselves. I've never heard of Johesu fighting for better facilities in the hospitals,always about skipping this or that,its shameful. The fact that some people don't like the way they're treated and feel like "not smiling back"(using your words) doesn't mean they have to attempt to derail healthcare for the patients.

TheArchangel:
We are trying to establish the facts that these residents are still students. You told me not to downplay it but it is necessary.

Let us assume you're a University undergraduate,and your lecturer who has an M.sc is currently pursuing his Doctorate. Does that make him unqualified to be a lecturer?

Tbamo:

Pls can you inform us here what ur responsibilities are during call? don't go about trying trying raise public sentiment with unverified statements.
there is no possibility of you being exposed
to as much risk as the HO who do all th grunt work!

Go and found out the work of paramedics. Google is your friend if you dont know it.
After my normal work i will still go for my call if am the one on duty to come for call that day.
Note i used to attend to more than 15 patients both traumatic and stable one.

No body is saying paramedics salary should be same with doctors . Our concern is to let you know that paramedic are also important and you should not be jealous each times johesu protest for salary increament

doveda:


Paramedics and doctors are not equal. There is nowhere in the world that are paid equal whether they work for the same hours or not

The same thing applies to a nurse's salary. It is the way it is

Pls do read my post again with unbias mind.thanks

artboll:

Madam,its apparent you've 'travelled far and wide', and now you've brought an issue to the fore. JOHESU should stop pretending they are fighting for the most important person-THE PATIENT, cos the truth is they only care about themselves. I've never heard of Johesu fighting for better facilities in the hospitals,always about skipping this or that,its shameful. The fact that some people don't like the way they're treated and feel like "not smiling back"(using your words) doesn't mean they have to attempt to derail healthcare for the patients.

Interesting and what exactly do Drs fight for? Johesu didn't even pretend to fight for the pt by adding some minor points to win pple's heart wc gets forgotten when their main issues are addressed. Pls mention just a strike by Drs where the main points and goals were for the pts and health facilities ( don't bring tht sentiment up it goes both ways and we both knw who the masters in this regard is ) and who controls the mgt of these facilities? And we can all see how well they manage them wtout corruption.

Let's face reality both parties fight for their rights wc is sadly the reality on ground, none cares abt d pt in tht regards, strike is d weapon the govt understands and pple aren't afraid to use so I dnt get d comparison e. g the Drs in Osun are having a solidarity warning strike for three days, how does this help the pt and health sector? And I think d antagonism is childish, selfish and hypocritical, no one cares abt the pt, it's d I want to earn more and the no the relativity gap must remain same unless we strike too. But the main things I dnt understand is why Drs are so antagonistic to other professionals earning higher and make mountains out of mole hills, bringing irrelevancies up. How does other workers being paid better affect them? U guys earn more anyway so why the need to surpress others?

The govt wc sadly doesn't even care shld sit the ass of stakeholders of these unions out and resolve issues. I really dnt get what all these insanity is all abt.

The health system and infact every system in Nigeria needs an overhaul !

gearcoin:

Pls do read my post again with unbias mind.thanks

Allowance, salary etc

It can't be the same

Thanks.

otswag:
oga! Ur d one misleading people. Most paramedics don't do calls. They do shifts. There's a difference so don't expect equal pay. Paramedics work 8hr shifts a day. Drs work 8am till 4pm the next day on call days. Abeg calculate that. Yet u still want to be paid thesame? Na wah o.

That is the problem of you people. Who told you paramedic do not do calls. Continue misleading people. Most doctors feel they are unique and no any person suffer for patient than them.
Once again, i resume work 8am and close 4pm and i will surely come back from 5pm till dawn for my call if am all call for that day.
No body want to collect same with doctors. Just try to appreciate others and dont cry fouls if johesu ask for salary increment.

nelszx:


End time lie from the pit of hell during strike the blood bank is always locked. Who cross matched the blood you used? HO or Residents? Both don't even know how it's done let alone do it. U think it's by mixing? Bros Doctor at ur age u shouldn't act ignorant besides Dr's don't sign result in Medical Laboratory. Except the blood bank u r talking about is NBTS.

Stop deceiving urslf and deceiving the public.

u are the one lying to the public.
during johesu strikes laboratory doctors take over the labs.
the cmd do not support that nonsense of locking the doors and going away with the key.
there's nothing they do in blood bank that haematologist cannot perform.

Forget it dude, i now see clearly that wherever the title "Dr" is been mentioned you catch cold. Little wonder objective analysis is beyond you. You are a JOHESU sympathiser, if not so why the sudden reference to "Drs". And for you info nobody is comparing here, there is no levelled pedestal for that.

sarzy:


What is this one saying? I can't find the correlation between what you typed and what you quoted. Don't Nigerian doctors go on strike also? Do doctors go on strike abroad? You mentioned my quote, but what is it I'm not saying as it is? Have I justified JOHESU's strike? What I'm saying is that Nigerian doctors abroad dare not try all the nonsense they try in this country. And in fact, stop comparing yourselves with foreign medics; you are not worth it!

gearcoin:

That is the problem of you people. Who told you paramedic do not do calls. Continue misleading people. Most doctors feel they are unique and no any person suffer for patient than them.
Once again, i resume work 8am and close 4pm and i will surely come back from 5pm till dawn for my call if am all call for that day.
No body want to collect same with doctors. Just try to appreciate others and dont cry fouls if johesu ask for salary increment.

you make me laugh. I'm sure ur not too blind to notice I said "most" paramedics not "all". Is that to difficult to understand? Secondly, I'm not threatened by your salary increment. Infact its a very welcome development. U seem not to understand that There's already a relativity formula on ground so if ur salary goes up, mine should eventually. Bring it on....lol

doveda:


Allowance, salary etc

It can't be the same

Thanks.

Doctor should be collecting 60k plus and other paramedic should should be workin like donkey and collect 20k as allowance just because one study for six yrs and other studied for 5 yrs. God will fight for paramedic one day.

HaneefahRN:


Interesting and what exactly do Drs fight for? Johesu didn't even pretend to fight for the pt by adding some minor points to win pple's heart wc gets forgotten when their main issues are addressed. Pls mention just a strike by Drs where the main points and goals were for the pts and health facilities ( don't bring tht sentiment up it goes both ways and we both knw who the masters in this regard is ) and who controls the mgt of these facilities? And we can all see how well they manage them wtout corruption.

Let's face reality both parties fight for their rights wc is sadly the reality on ground, none cares abt d pt in tht regards, strike is d weapon the govt understands and pple aren't afraid to use so I dnt get d comparison e. g the Drs in Osun are having a solidarity warning strike for three days, how does this help the pt and health sector? And I think d antagonism is childish, selfish and hypocritical, no one cares abt the pt, it's d I want to earn more and the no the relativity gap must remain same unless we strike too. But the main things I dnt understand is why Drs are so antagonistic to other professionals earning higher and make mountains out of mole hills, bringing irrelevancies up. How does other workers being paid better affect them? U guys earn more anyway so why the need to surpress others?

The govt wc sadly doesn't even care shld sit the ass of stakeholders of these unions out and resolve issues. I really dnt get what all these insanity is all abt.

The health system and infact every system in Nigeria needs an overhaul !

Actually,there have been strikes over the state of hospitals and healthcare. I wish you've heard of ARD strikes at FMC,Owerri(I hope this is correct cos its been kinda long) where the Doctors went on strike over poor state of hospital facilities and called for the sack of the CMD. Also,it goes to show how caring(pretentious or not) Drs are when going on strike as they tend to bring the state of health facilities to the public knowledge. I doubt JOHESU will ever mind if hospitals turn to 'rat-houses' as long as they're paid higher than Doctors. You also mentioned the Osun debacle;if the NMA hadn't gone on strike,would you or the rest of Nigeria had known that a Governor of an APC state that had received its bailout funds decided to cut the salaries of its civil servants by half,while politicians still got their full numerations as well as their enrichments for corruption?(NO). The leaderships of JOHESU as well as other unions have probably had their hands greased and so kept silent,but as its always been,the NMA said NO.
Don't you sometimes wonder why no Doctor will ever criticize an NMA decision. Its because its never for just themselves,but for future doctors,the patients and the health sector in general,and sometimes(like in the Osun state example),the general public.

TheArchangel:
Consultants are paid to consult and treat not hand over to their trainees" and comes when their attentions are needed, they are being paid huge ...damn it.!!
Well, General practitioners in sane climates do some level of residency...using US and UK as a case.
House officers, MOs, reg, senior regs are not specialist and are not supposed to roam free in a particular specialty, they should be monitored. They are not authorised to practice the stated specialty they are in that's why they are placed under a consultant. We allows a lot of impunity in Nigeria. Aren't you shooting yourself on the foot per the bolded, then why is the consultant needed.

residency training is an opportunity for advanced medical training in a specialty area of interest.
Resident are medical doctors with a license to see and attend to patients.
they are liable and can be sued for incompetence because they are doctors and not students.
senior registrars in Nigeria is the equivalent of an attending specialist in the us and high level of autonomy and competence is expected from them in that specialty.
In fact a SR with west Africa college of physician can work as a consultant/specialist in a district hospital.
please go and read about residency training in Nigeria because its obvious u are in the dark.

otswag:
you make me laugh. I'm sure ur not too blind to notice I said "most" paramedics not "all". Is that to difficult to understand? Secondly, I'm not threatened by your salary increment. Infact its a very welcome development. U seem not to understand that There's already a relativity formula on ground so if ur salary goes up, mine should eventually. Bring it on....lol

Thank God that you atleast know some paramedic do calls. So which among paramedic doest do calls ?
The question to ask when doctor salary were increase does paramedics salary increased?

gearcoin:

Doctor should be collecting 60k plus and other paramedic should should be workin like donkey and collect 20k as allowance just because one study for six yrs and other studied for 5 yrs. God will fight for paramedic one day.

God will not

That is what is happening everywhere

It is basic economics and politics. The paramedian knew before hand but decided to stick with it. In other clime, they don't have to go to school, they can also go through a training route. The amount might be too small however you should not compare it with the doctor's. Regardless, there are other things in life that matter more.