Ranchhoddas:
No he did not. That kind of freewill cannot exist in light of God's omniscience.

Please have u read

The story of king Hezekiah?
How he prolonged his life even after it was prophecied he would die?

And then read 2nd samuel 24:10. (David's sorry).......

Its like its obvious u have never done any study on the free will of man. Its evident in ur talk.

felixomor:


Please have u read

The story of king Hezekiah?
How he prolonged his life even after it was prophecied he would die?

And then read 2nd samuel 24:10. (David's sorry).......

Its like its obvious u have never done any study on the free will of man. Its evident in ur talk.

Is there a school where freewill studies are carried out? How in God's name does Hezekiah's story relate to freewill at all? His death was prophesied, he prayed and his years were lengthened, how does freewill fit in here?

Ranchhoddas:
Is there a school where freewill studies are carried out? How in God's name does Hezekiah's story relate to freewill at all? His death was prophesied, he prayed and his years were lengthened, how does freewill fit in here?

Exactly,
Somebody like u would av said "it is over" afterall it has been prophecied. And then u will just die like that.

felixomor:


Exactly,
Somebody like u would av said "it is over" afterall it has been prophecied. And then u will just die like that.

Did God know that Hezekiah would ask for mercy?

Ranchhoddas:
Did God know that Hezekiah would ask for mercy?

Let's not digress much, as usual.

The most important thing is that the man chose life because he had an understanding of God's ways and some other people could av also said "its over" and chosen to pass on. Hence the freedom of choice.
That's the point of a freewill and free choices.
Period on that.

felixomor:


Let's not digress much, as usual.

The most important thing is that the man chose life because he had an understanding of God's ways and some other people could av also said "its over" and chosen to pass on. Hence the freedom of choice.
That's the point of a freewill and free choices.
Period on that.

I would have been surprised if you had given a good answer. If God knew, then he did not have freewill unless you do not know freewill means. My question is in no way a digression.

Ranchhoddas:
I would have been surprised if you had given a good answer. If God knew, then he did not have freewill unless you do not know freewill means. My question is in no way a digression.

Yeah right.
So because I know what u will do in the future automataically means u were not "free to choose" abi , ?
Your conclusions sha?

Well that aside.
No time.
Let me stick to the topic of the bible verses.

felixomor:


Yeah right.
So because I know what u will do in the future automataically means u were not "free to choose" abi , ?
Your conclusions sha?

Well that aside.
No time.
Let me stick to the topic of the bible verses.

If you know what I'll do then I don't have freewill. It's logically impossible for foreknowledge and freewill to exist at once.

Felixomor, its impossible to be omniscient and give "freewill" in the strictest sense of the words

Ranchhoddas:
If you know what I'll do then I don't have freewill. It's logically impossible for foreknowledge and freewill to exist at once.

So breaking it down.

So We can as well conclude that Germany footballers didn't play with free will in the 2014 worldcup, afterall Octopus Paul correctly foretold the results of their matches even before the matches were played.

By ur conclusion abi?
Hmmm

hopefulLandlord:
Felixomor, its impossible to be omniscient and give "freewill" in the strictest sense of the words

What does "omniscient" mean?

Ranchhoddas:
If you know what I'll do then I don't have freewill. It's logically impossible for foreknowledge and freewill to exist at once.

This statement is inherently wrong. There is sin in the world today and there is good too in the world because of freewill. Some people choose to do evil, while others choose to do good. You have a choice. You're not forced. That's freewill.

GOD gave Adam and Eve a command. GOD commanded them because He created them, and to test their loyalty to Him. If they heeded His voice, they would live on forever, but if they disobeyed, they would die. GOD did not force them to choose.

Any choice has a consequence. We are free to make choices but we are not free from the consequences of the choices we make.

felixomor:


So breaking it down.

So We can as well conclude that Germany footballers didn't play with free will in the 2014 worldcup, afterall Octopus Paul correctly foretold the results of their matches even before the matches were played.

By ur conclusion abi?
Hmmm

I hope you know this is a very foolish analogy. Octopus Paul guessed rightly. Not all his guesses were correct. Don't tell me you believe that the Octopus had super powers.

DoctorAlien:


This statement is inherently wrong. There is sin in the world today and there is good too in the world because of freewill. Some people choose to do evil, while others choose to do good. You have a choice. You're not forced. That's freewill.

GOD gave Adam and Eve a command. GOD commanded them because He created them, and to test their loyalty to Him. If they heeded His voice, they would live on forever, but if they disobeyed, they would die. GOD did not force them to choose.

Any choice has a consequence. We are free to make choices but we are not free from the consequences of the choices we make.

Did God know that Adam and Eve were going to sin. A yes or no would do.

felixomor:


So breaking it down.

So We can as well conclude that Germany footballers didn't play with free will in the 2014 worldcup, afterall Octopus Paul correctly foretold the results of their matches even before the matches were played.

By ur conclusion abi?
Hmmm

octopus Paul guessed some matches wrong

which kain analogy be dis now?

Ranchhoddas:
Did God know that Adam and Eve were going to sin. A yes or no would do.

good question

also

Ranchhoddas:
Did God know that Hezekiah would ask for mercy?

Ranchhoddas:
Did God know that Adam and Eve were going to sin. A yes or no would do.

GOD knew that there was a possibility that they would sin.

DoctorAlien:

GOD knew that there was a possibility that they would sin.

so god doesn't "know" the future? in the strictest sense of the word

Y'all note these basic points:

1. GOD is someone who is not caught unawares.

2. GOD did not create Adam and Eve to sin. However He created them with a possibility to sin.

3. GOD does not force anybody to obey Him. You obey GOD out of love and respect, because you've found out that He deserves obedience as the Creator.

hopefulLandlord:

so god doesn't "know" the future? in the strictest sense of the word

See my post below your quote.

DoctorAlien:


See my post below your quote.

your posts hardly makes sense to me, maybe because I have a primitive brain

he created them with the "possibility" to sin, that doesn't in ANY way answer the question because an ordinary person also sees two possibilities, was that what Yahweh was seeing too?

the question is; DID HE KNOW ADAM AND EVE WOULD SIN?

a Yes or No

hopefulLandlord:


your posts hardly makes sense to me, maybe because I have a primitive brain

he created them with the "possibility" to sin, that doesn't in ANY way answer the question because an ordinary person also sees two possibilities, was that what Yahweh was seeing too?

the question is; DID HE KNOW ADAM AND EVE WOULD SIN?

a Yes or No

I'm not sure you read that post.

Or if you read that post and it doesn't make sense to you, then 1 Cor. 2:14 is fulfilled in you.

DoctorAlien:


GOD knew that there was a possibility that they would sin.

So He did not know whether they'll actually sin or not?

DoctorAlien:


1. GOD is someone who is not caught unawares.

Let's start with this one.
He can't be caught unaware, right?
Which implies that he's not capable of regret.
Because regret happens when something you didn't expect, happens.
Then how come your god shows regret in the bible?

Genesis 6:6 New International Version
And the LORD regretted that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.

Ranchhoddas:
So He did not know whether they'll actually sin or not?

GOD was expecting that moment when they would disobey Him. And we see that immediately they sinned, GOD promised a Seed to come. It shows that GOD was ready for that moment.

You know what they say "hope for the best, but expect (be ready for) the worst."

DoctorAlien:


GOD was expecting that moment when they would disobey Him. And we see that immediately they sinned, GOD promised a Seed to come. It shows that GOD was ready for that moment.

You know what they say "hope for the best, but expect (be ready for) the worst."

An omniscient cannot hope for the best and expect the worst. Is God omniscient?

AnonyNymous:

Let's starts with this one.
He can't be caught unaware, right?
Which implies that he's not capable of regret.
Because regret happens when something you didn't expect, happens.
Then how come your god shows regret in the bible?

Genesis 6:6 New International Version
And the LORD regretted that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.

GOD regretted making man because of what he has turned to. The man whom He created for a holy communion with Himself has turned into a very terrible, sinful creature.

The fallacy you committed is thinking that regret = being caught unawares.

An armed robber who is caught regrets his actions, but it does not mean that he did not envisage success when he was about to embark on his actions.

Ranchhoddas:
An omniscient cannot hope for the best and expect the worst. Is God omniscient?

This statement is directly countered by the fact that GOD gave man a command. What can GOD do but hope that man obeys Him, in the best interest of man?

DoctorAlien:


GOD regretted making man because of what he has turned to. The man whom He created for a holy communion with Himself has turned into a very terrible, sinful creature.

The fallacy you committed is thinking that regret = being caught unawares.

An armed robber who is caught regrets his actions, but it does not mean that he did not envisage success when he was about to embark on his actions.

Theres no fallacy there. Your analogy is a bit flawed. No no, you see, an armed robber is caught unaware. Yes, he knew that the he'd end up in jail IF he was caught. . . but, he didn't know he was going to be caught at that particular time. Tell me, if a robber is omniscient, and knows that if he goes to rob No 8, Kashimawo street on Friday night, he will be caught, then will he still go there to rob? The answer is NO! If he still foolishly decides to go ahead and rob that place, then when he is caught, he will have no regrets, because he knew the end result, and he still decided to do it!

DoctorAlien:


This statement is directly countered by the fact that GOD gave man a command. What can GOD do but hope that man obeys Him, in the best interest of man?

Mago mago. Is God omniscient or not?

AnonyNymous:

Theres no fallacy there. Your analogy is a bit flawed. No no, you see, an armed robber is caught unaware. Yes, he knew that the he'd end up in jail IF he was caught. . . but, he didn't know he was going to be caught at that particular time. Tell me, if a robber is omniscient, and knows that if he goes to rob No 8, Kashimawo street on Friday night, he will be caught, then will he still go there to rob? The answer is NO! If he still foolishly decides to go ahead and rob that place, then when he is caught, he will have no regrets, because he knew the end result, and he still decided to do it!

Man does not embark on any journey he knows would result surely in failure. The robber goes to rob because he believes he will succeed. Sure, he knows that he could be caught, be he hopes he isn't. And so for each time robber carries his gun to rob, he believes he will succeed, even though it could go wrong.

Ranchhoddas:
Mago mago. Is God omniscient or not?

GOD is omniscient.