LaExpert:


Share your experience, mention the name of the Church, the Pastor and the welfare department heads. Perhaps, we can confirm.

or is this a mere allegation just to buttress your displeasure?

Check my previous posts on this thread.

Topgainer:

From the point you started queries on who now owns the jets I already knew where you were headed. So I decided to answer before your next move if you'd read carefully.
You have assumed that the Jets belong to the Ministry. There is nothing like us- the ministry among shrewd businessmen who own Churches. In Such Churches, there is also nothing like us, the trustees in most cases are Father(Bishop), wife and Children maybe a very loyal boy. Men and women who labour in the branches as managers may be given a little recognition and crumbs from the Bishop's table. The rest of you are on your own as you have no claim to anything whatsoever as belonging to us as in Church.


Wake up my friend.
This was not the structure of the early Church.
What we have today is family businesses of men who claim to worship God on one hand and the population of Christianity who form the market (membership) they are competing for. It is a cruel form of it, because of the stiff competition, the big players muscle away the smaller ones harvesting as much membership as they could get.
It is about worship of a man figure who claims to worship God. It is a form of worship that brings in another mediator between man and God. If you like 2 more mediators before Jesus. One is money the other is man of god. This model of Christianity only got foothold in Nigeria in the late 70's and 80's because real men of God who could speak out allowed themselves to be intimadated by the anomalies. 1990's saw the corruption of some others and the spread of the craze (the famous if you can't beat them join them)
It is good that men are beginning to wake up to see the Man on the White horse of Revelations 6
Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
It is a movement of false Christianity already sweeping through the entire Christian space but glory to God it had no arrow for the elects sake.

I did not assume the jets belong to the ministry, it is obvious it does.

The worth of the jets is greater than the net worth of Myles Munroe. It is that simple. I cannot claim what is not simply because I want to criticise someone.


Sadly, you never bother to know how these shrewd 'businessmen' started their businesses neither do you criticise the 'businessmen' that are still 'poor'...or are the poor pastors the ones doing the work of God?

Toks2008:


Check my previous posts on this thread.

Christ Embassy?

What's the name of the then welfare director?
Shed more light on what really happened too, what were u turned down for by the Church?

Topgainer:

I am as Objective and diplomatic as anyone could be.
You're ignorant of so many things happening today in many places of man worship. People are forced to give by way of stiff unwarranted levies, people are coerced to pay certain amounts for unspecified things, men and women are told to pay up otherwise they are not recognized as members much like what obtains in unions. Is that the Church that Jesus died for?
Please, I will respond to reasonable submissions if you come up with any. You darting questions gives me no joy because I see the enslavement of men who have resorted to the worship of fellow men all over.

Unwarranted levies? Tithes? Offerings? Firstfruits? Seeds? Commitments?

All these aren't compulsory, no pastor can force anyone to give them. You can't be restricted from coming to church if you don't pay tithes or offering...the fact that a pastor is telling to pay tithe is for your own good. This is simply the truth!

LaExpert:


I did not assume the jets belong to the ministry, it is obvious it does.
The worth of the jets is greater than the net worth of Myles Munroe. It is that simple. I cannot claim what is not simply because I want to criticise someone.
Sadly, you never bother to know how these shrewd 'businessmen' started their businesses neither do you criticise the 'businessmen' that are still 'poor'...or are the poor pastors the ones doing the work of God?

WhatWho is the Ministry?
You know the truth but you are blowing grammer the type used to deceive people in the places of Man Worship. It belongs to the Ministry(our Church) is used when somebody is about to be taxed while
it was founded and built by Papa is used when the taxed behaves in a way that suggests that he thinks he has a stake in the project. That's when it is usual to hear things like how much is your offering and tithe self that makes you think this Estate is built with it.

I have observed you have not provided any Bible passage to support your stand and you have not in all posts defended that these Churches are the kind that the Apostles instituted.
The reason is simple it is the doctrine of men for personal gains and has no root in the Word of God.
Therefore, I will not converse further with you on this but I hope for your own good you realize on time that you are involved in the worship of man of god which is a form Idolatry.

Toks2008:


Check my previous posts on this thread.

Toks2008:



It's no longer news that a quarter of winners chapel members can't afford the fee of covenant university?

How many church members have their children in that school?

I remember when I was serving some years back when I approached my pastor at one redeem branch to lend me 6k to pay back in a month which was very vital to avoid being sent out of my rented apartment but he said no money and I was sent out anyways and I just wonder if my tithing and offering was worth giving to the church but I just gave to obey God.

Today there are many people in the church who need money to start a biz, for treatment and so on but do these pastors really care?

Do you know how much it costs to maintain a jet?

This thread is about Nigerian pastors cos Nigeria is a peculiar country that has countless people suffering even in the church.

No wonder you're ashamed to repost your ordeal.
You requested for 6k from a church pastor, not even the church, he declined...and you concluded that most churches don't give help...and was even thinking if it was worth it to keep paying tithes there!

How ridiculous. I don't have to say anything about how poor such reasoning is, everyone here can see it.

By the way, I can list countless charitable pastors...that give help from their own pockets.

Show me someone who went to a church for help...and the Church sent the person away!

2. What should be done about the high school fees of these universities? Let me hear from you.

Topgainer:

WhatWho is the Ministry?
You know the truth but you are blowing grammer the type used to deceive people in the places of Man Worship. It belongs to the Ministry(our Church) is used when somebody is about to be taxed while
it was founded and built by Papa is used when the taxed behaves in a way that suggests that he thinks he has a stake in the project. That's when it is usual to hear things like how much is your offering and tithe self that makes you think this Estate is built with it.

I have observed you have not provided any Bible passage to support your stand and you have not in all posts defended that these Churches are the kind that the Apostles instituted.
The reason is simple it is the doctrine of men for personal gains and has no root in the Word of God.
Therefore, I will not converse further with you on this but I hope for your own good you realize on time that you are involved in the worship of man of god which is a form Idolatry.

Young man, Oyedepo cannot lay claim of ownership to covenant university or Living Faith Church, though he's the founder...he's only in charge for now. When he dies, another man takes charge of everything, like in the case of Fadayomi of Redeemed, Ayo Babalola of CAC, Oral Roberts, Kenneth Hagin etc.

Most of you critics are only complaining because the founders are still alive and in charge. There's nothing wrong with a church owning a jet for the office of the G.O or owning schools.

I laugh at the delusion of these sheeps who pride themselves devout worshippers waiting upon the arrival of the 'son of man' on the great day of rapture.

Pastors (aided by the bible of course) have somehow managed to convince these people that earthly desires, goals are all vanity. Yet these same gospel preachers cruise the best cars in town and live in exquisite houses and rock expensive suits.

They are aware of the bitter truth about life. That there may be no continuity after death, so they want to ensure that they live life to the fullest.

Life is difficult. Life is sweet. Perharps none at all. To some, it's a journey. To others, it's a race. But one thing is certain, you have got to do something, anything to survive. Pastors have likewise adapted to happenings for survival. None is exempted from the harsh reality of life. They disguise under white saintly robes as bearers of the one truth to exploit these guys with a con man's talent.

Even their role model, Jesus, was a carpenter's son; he didn't chase after material wealth when he walked the earth. His father's work was above all. But, but Why ain't pastors doing same?

Common sense why art thou forsaken us? If you'd shine thy glorious light just for a brief moment... Let all men see.

LaExpert:


Oyedepo cannot lay claim of ownership to covenant university or Living Faith Church, though he's the founder...he's only in charge for now.
There's nothing wrong with a church owning a jet for the office of the G.O or owning schools.

Although, I said I will not converse with you again but your ignorance is on the high side or could it be that your delusion has made you think that you own Winners Inc with Bishop?
He doesn't have to lay claim of ownership because it is his already. They all belong to him and he doesn't have any partners or contenders to the throne and conglomerate he established.
You do not own it with him. Bishop David Oyedepo Jnr takes over at the retirement of his Father. Listen and listen good Mr Man, no stranger will be allowed to take over the signatory to the bank accounts and other key management of the conglomerate.

Topgainer:

Although, I said I will not converse with you again but your ignorance is on the high side or could it be that your delusion has made you think that you own Winners Inc with Bishop?
He doesn't have to lay claim of ownership because it is his already. They all belong to him and he doesn't have any partners or contenders to the throne and conglomerate he established.
You do not own it with him. Bishop David Oyedepo Jnr takes over at the retirement of his Father. Listen and listen good Mr Man, no stranger will be allowed to take over the signatory to the bank accounts and other key management of the conglomerate.

I can see how you cunningly ignored the glaring examples I gave in the cases of Fadayomi of Redeemed, Babalola of CAC, Oral Roberts etc and you choose to stick with what feeds your ignorant and critical mind.

I wouldn't say anything about the case of Oyedepo, but I am quite sure it will be like the other examples given above. All you have typed above are assumptions from your vain and critical mind.

I'll advise you to be a bit liberal and open minded, Myles Munroe died recently, the management of the Church he founded is entirely out of his family, another man is now in charge of the church, jets and all other things that belongs to the Church.

Like I said, be open minded, it will do you a lot of good. Hating won't take you anywhere.

LaExpert:


I can see how you cunningly ignored the glaring examples I gave in the cases of Fadayomi of Redeemed, Babalola of CAC, Oral Roberts etc and you choose to stick with what feeds your ignorant and critical mind.

I wouldn't say anything about the case of Oyedepo, but I am quite sure it will be like the other examples given above. All you have typed above are assumptions from your vain and critical mind.

I'll advise you to be a bit liberal and open minded, Myles Munroe died recently, the management of the Church he founded is entirely out of his family, another man is now in charge of the church, jets and all other things that belongs to the Church.

Like I said, be open minded, it will do you a lot of good. Hating won't take you anywhere.

I created this thread with the sole aim of discussing if it is ok for some NIGERIAN pastors to own a jet...discussing foreign pastors is not the focal point.

I still wonder why this very important thread is not beamed on the main page.

Or is lalasticlala related to any Nigerian pastor with a jet?

Toks2008:


I created this thread with the sole aim of discussing if it is ok for some NIGERIAN pastors to own a jet...discussing foreign pastors is not the focal point.

I still wonder why this very important thread is not beamed on the main page.

Or is lalasticlala related to any Nigerian pastor with a jet?

I had to chip in the Non-Nigerian pastors to buttress my point, we (Nigerians) can be very shallow and critical when discussing issues and relating it to Nigeria alone.

As regards the bold, maybe because you haven't named any of those pastors that actually own jets personally, with a little proof of ownership (maybe).

Toks2008,

I believe your point and the essence of the thread is that no NIGERIAN pastor should own a jet for his own pleasure even when he has the money; the money should rather put into charity...or maybe lent out to members who may need it for rent.

I share your opinion to some extent. Owning jets may be unnecessary for a pastor.

However, I want to hear your opinion on these issues:

1. What should be the reaction of a pastor if he receives a gift of a jet from his congregation, or from a member of his congregation?

2. What do you think about a church, owning a jet for the convenience of the Pastor and other people in authority of the church?

3. What's your opinion about a foreign preacher or pastor who owns a jet?

LaExpert:
Toks2008,

I believe your point and the essence of the thread is that no NIGERIAN pastor should own a jet for his own pleasure even when he has the money; the money should rather put into charity...or maybe lent out to members who may need it for rent.

I share your opinion to some extent. Owning jets may be unnecessary for a pastor.

However, I want to hear your opinion on these issues:

1. What should be the reaction of a pastor if he receives a gift of a jet from his congregation, or from a member of his congregation?

2. What do you think about a church, owning a jet for the convenience of the Pastor and other people in authority of the church?

3. What's your opinion about a foreign preacher or pastor who owns a jet?

In a country like Nigeria where many members of mist churches can't afford basic needs of life,a jet is a total miss and even given as a gift should be sold and the proceeds used for the betterment of the church at large.

Buying a private jet us not as expensive as maintaining them overtime and trust me,the msintanance money must cone from somewhere ..

As for foreign pastors owning a jet I have nothing to say to that .

Toks2008:
Lalasticlala do you think it makes sense for a Nigerian pastor to own a private jet?

Lol. Troubleshooter

Well, my own G.O doesn't have one and I don't think He needs one. Which people you wan evangelize to inside jet

Omo I dey fear nairaland oooo?
The people turning away from religion and seeing it as scam and its faithfuls as deluded is increasing in power !

orisa37:
Yes. You use your best to serve God. Our God is not wretched.

i dont undertand what u mean by 'God is not wretched'?...is plane now a tool for worshipping God?;are the poor not longer able to worship him?

vizkiz:
Poverty mentality.

So it is okay for a millionaire, politician and a musician to have private jets but a pastor is subjected to suffering right?

Serving God doesn't mean you shouldn't enjoy things because the earth is the lord's and the fullness therein

Before most of you (seun inclusive) come to nairaland to type junk maybe you should just take a minute and go through the Bible then read with your IQ (if you have any) not just rush to prove a void point

Is a pastor the same as a. Millionaire or businessman?

You comparing a pastor to this set of people mean you absolutely have no idea what you're saying.

A million owns a business that yields him profit, tell me, what business does a pastor own? Is winning souls for Christ the same as owning a multi-million dollar business?

randomperson:
Private jets can be necessary... If they are owned by and used for the church it's actually good...

i cant remember a european pastor/or man of God with private jet;despite their poverty rate is very low

Seun:

You don't think providing people with spiritual services (music, moral instruction) in exchange for 10% or more of their income is a business?

It is a business when they make profit their watch word. But if they use that money to help the poor and needy within the congregation, then it is just an institution.

Adaowerri111:
Does your president need a private jet?? If yes ...pastors need more than that, however, not only nigeria pastors have private jet

nigrian pastors have more private jets than any other countries' pastors

randomperson:
Private jets can be necessary... If they are owned by and used for the church it's actually good...

Hahaha, used by church, leaders. The ordinary church members would prolly not be allowed in those jets. Only the leaders but they would say it is for the church. My dear, it is for the few people registered under the cloak of the church to evade EFCC

Adaowerri111:
Does your president need a private jet?? If yes ...pastors need more than that, however, not only nigeria pastors have private jet

For you to compare a pastor and a president ....then believe me,there is a problem
Youths are actually naive
Wat a shame

hilaryJustiN:
Omo I dey fear nairaland oooo?
The people turning away from religion and seeing it as scam and its faithfuls as deluded is increasing in power !

Wettin this one dey talk?

Discuss the matter and leave sentiments or just read comments

vizkiz:
[color=#000099][i][b][font=serif][size=10pt] Poverty mentality.

So it is okay for a millionaire, politician and a musician to have private jets but a pastor is subjected to suffering right?

I dont think not using a private jet is what you might call "suffering".

The origin of tithe and offering is to help one another in the Church especially those that are needy. Its wrong if the fund is being converted to another project...

What sort of question is that?

Won't he travel

Abi na Naija he'll be based all his entire life.

Yes, they do. The sincere ones that want to go global. Owning a private jet isn't bad if you can afford it and can also afford to maintain it.
Members who give tithe and offering do so willingly and some of these churches make provision for hospitality and welfare of the less privileged.
If i have 3000 churches around the world and i need to visit them once in a while and also hold services in my local church, there's nothing wrong with having a private jet. Provided i can afford it.

Toks2008:

Wettin this one dey talk?
Discuss the matter and leave sentiments or just read comments

abi na

Seun:

You don't think providing people with spiritual services (music, moral instruction) in exchange for 10% or more of their income is a business?

Its not an exchange. God loves a cheerful giver. Whether its offering or tithe, it not under compulsion.
Its not like the Pastor will tell you to stop coming to church cos you didn't give your tithe/offering

martineverest:
nigrian pastors have more private jets than any other countries' pastors

lies ...checkout Kenneth Copeland