Toks2008:


Who gave them power and authority?

They are same with us...as a believer we have same signs following us but by virtue of their office they don't need a private jet EXPECIALLY IN NIGERIA where most members are in desperate need of one financial succor or the other.

I have had my experience with redeem in 1998 and Christ embassy in 2001 and I can say without any apology that most churches do not care about the members.

Where did the likes oc daddy G.O and Bishop oyedepo get the money for the Jets?

It's time we say things as they are.

I too don't buy into the idea of Pastor owning jets but I've learn to respect them as annointed men of God. You're not God and you can never talk/fight/make decision for God. Leave him to do his thing

yorhmienerd:
The quality of service rendered in those 'businesses' are far more better than government owned ones, there's nothing wrong in that.

The fact that you mentioned names makes it mockery

Let me mention more names

I can tell you for a fact that most of these pastors are smart business men..

Look at the rhapsody of reality of c embassy. ..members pay for it and they get printed in pastor Chris printing press...he makes the profit...members pay...they give it out free but it's not really free...

As far as I'm concerned...any general overseer in Nigeria who purchases a private jet is callous and insensitive.

A pastor shouldn't spend $60m (12bn to 18bn naira depending on exchange rate) on luxury transport excluding maintanance fee when there are too many poor people in the church to be helped.

yorhmienerd:
Why don't you leave that to God?

This is too obvious ore...most of these pastors are not it.

Toks2008:


Let me mention more names

I can tell you for a fact that most of these pastors are smart business men..

Look at the rhapsody of reality of c embassy. ..members pay for it and they get printed in pastor Chris printing press...he makes the profit...members pay...they give it out free but it's not really free...

As far as I'm concerned...any general overseer in Nigeria who purchases a private jet is callous and insensitive.

A pastor shouldn't spend $60m (12bn to 18bn naira depending on exchange rate) on luxury transport excluding maintanance fee when there are too many poor people in the church to be helped.

AGAIN I say, leave the decision for God.

yorhmienerd:
AGAIN I say, leave the decision for God.

Please enough of this follow follow mentality..be objective man and stop this sentimentality...

I'm not GOD but as human I must express my displeasure which is what this thread is all about.

Stop getting sentimental bro.

Toks2008:
A pastor shouldn't spend $60m (12bn to 18bn naira depending on exchange rate) on luxury transport excluding maintanance fee when there are too many poor people in the church to be helped.

The cost of an entry level private jet can be much less than that. It can be "just" a few million dollars. What if the pastor's ability to travel all over the world with less stress enables him to preach all over the world more easily and convert more souls to Christianity as a result?

Seun:

The cost of an entry level private jet can be much less than that. It can be "just" a few million dollars. What if the pastor's ability to travel all over the world with less stress enables him to preach all over the world more easily and convert more souls to Christianity as a result?

This is the logic they all try to sell to us but lets frace it, what does it take to plan ahead?

When i listened to Petere OBI as he talked about wastage in government and how to cuit cost, i can'y help but conclude that these pastors are verey very self centered and uncaring towards the members of their church. Nigeria is a perculiar country where we need to do things more carefully...even a billion naira is too much for a general overseer to lavish on luxury.

Seun:

The cost of an entry level private jet can be much less than that. It can be "just" a few million dollars. What if the pastor's ability to travel all over the world with less stress enables him to preach all over the world more easily and convert more souls to Christianity as a result?

This is the logic they all try to sell to us but lets face it, what does it take to plan ahead?

Creflo dollar and one other prosperity preacher even gave another strange excuse that flying in commercial plane could expose them to demons and several people who may want to disturb them with their issues.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2016/01/televangelists-need-private-jets-because-demons-fly-commercial/

When i listened to Peter OBI as he talked about wastage in government and how to cut cost, i can't help but conclude that these pastors are very very self centered and uncaring towards the members of their church. Nigeria is a peculiar country where we need to do things more carefully...even a billion naira is too much for a general overseer to lavish on luxury.

Jesus when on earth was an expression of meekness. He was born in a manger and he rode TRIUMPHANTLY on a donkey but today, the affluence of life and the lust for materialism has engulfed the present day pastors that they readily forget their Number one duty which is tending to the sheep who are likened to their members.

The other question i asked seem to be ignored by many and i repeat; WHERE DO PASTORS GET THE MONEY TO BUY PRIVATE JET?

Billionaire Warren Buffet became one of the richest men in the world by knowing what adds value to a corporation and what does not. And one of the things that does not, he has argued for years, is a corporate jet: They're a luxury in almost every case and a necessity for only a few. He often railed against them in the annual reports of his company.

yorhmienerd:
Why don't you leave that to God?

This statement shows you don't read your Bible or you read but you don't understand. When you see a Snake ( figuratively a manifestation of Satan) creep into your farm harvesting your animals and feeding fat from it, what do you do? Leave that to God
Isaiah 56:11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
Ezekiel 34:2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
If they don't repent, the carefully contrived messages aimed at extortion of the flocks will be exposed by men, much the same way you will scream when see that snake on your farmland. Already, many are being exposed for what they have become
Ezekiel 34:8 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;
Ezekiel 34:10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

Seun:

You don't think providing people with spiritual services (music, moral instruction) in exchange for 10% or more of their income is a business?

It is good business. I'm such a lazy bum. I have stuffs I've written on these guys but I'm just too lazy to edit and share here. I need encouragement.

Seun:

The cost of an entry level private jet can be much less than that. It can be "just" a few million dollars. What if the pastor's ability to travel all over the world with less stress enables him to preach all over the world more easily and convert more souls to Christianity as a result?

They are not cheap 10th (2nd) hand mini jets. A Nigerian Pastor has Gulf Stream G650 one of the safest Business jets, an experienced American Pilot and Engineers, a hanger in Accra and Ikeja. He doesn't want to die and has gone for the jet reputed to be safer than Bombardier.
Myles Monroe had 4 jets which should enable him travel around the world to preach and convert souls to Christianity. He together with his wife, daughter and key members of his Kingdom principles crusaders were burnt to death on their way "round the World".
It might interest you to know that the Kingdom principles is more about seed sowing, tithes, covenants/partnerships, riches, wealth, estates, publishing cooperations, profitable media groups, business seminars. Yet, his Nigerian American - styled counterparts will not learn that God cannot be mocked.
Modified: Gulfstream G550

Topgainer:

They are not cheap 10th (2nd) hand mini jets. A Nigerian Pastor has Gulf Stream G650 one of the safest Business jet, an experienced American Pilot and Engineers, a hanger in Accra and Ikeja. He doesn't want to die and has gone for the jet reputed to be safer than Bombardier.
Myles Monroe had 4 jets which should enable him travel around the world to preach and convert souls to Christianity. He together with his wife, daughter and key members of his Kingdom principles crusaders were burnt to death on their way "round the World".
It might interest you to know that the Kingdom principles is more about seed sowing, tithes, covenants/partnerships, riches, wealth, estates, publishing cooperations, profitable media groups, business seminars. Yet, his Nigerian American - styled counterparts will not learn that God cannot be mocked.

i doff my hat for you..such rare intelligence.

Seun:

The cost of an entry level private jet can be much less than that. It can be "just" a few million dollars. What if the pastor's ability to travel all over the world with less stress enables him to preach all over the world more easily and convert more souls to Christianity as a result?

There are cheaper ways of doing that.

ClassCaptain:


[s]it is however worthy of note that most of this expensive cars and private jets used by the men of God are at times bought voluntarily by certain members that believed.[/s] The prayers of the man of God aided in their success or others who get the money through dubious or ritual process and believe blessing a man of God will rid them of the guilt and sin...


while no one should say the man of God should reject a gift of roll Royce or a private jet.......

Imagine u could barely feed a 3square meal and some gifts u a Buggati & a Ferrari. What will u do? Of course u will accept & cos of d high cost of maintenance d only logical thing u will do is to sell it I guess. Whether a gift or not, a private jet is an unnecessary luxury for a man of God who understands what vanity upon vanity is.

Toks2008:


I certainly will but not when I'm a pastor....if you know what it takes to maintain a jet,you will understand how dumb it is for a general overseer to have one expecially in a country like ours when 70% of church members live below average.

It is easy to point accusing fingers, until you find yourself in such a situation.

I would have no issue with it if many pastors had jets before becoming pastors and started their ministries whilst they were already rich but becoming rich just after starting ministry makes it seem as if you are feeding off of offerings and tithes.

firstking01:
Talking abt covenant university, if you can't afford the fees, uniport is there, unilag is there, futo is there and others, so, if you can't meet up with the fees go to the other schools...do you know how much it cost to put that school upto that standard?, do you know how much it cos to pay those profs, engineers that teach the students, do you know what it will cost to maintain the school and it's infrastructures?...i 've said this countless times let it be the headache of the people paying the fees and not you...


Well, talking about people in church who need money to start business or whatever, there's such as hospital and welfare department in every church, they should go there and their needs will be met...as far as i know the church is really trying her best...do you know how many scholarships some churches give?, i guess your answer is no...stop castigating men of God...


If only you read about oyedepos history and background you'd be the last person to critisize him...that man suffered, shebi you know?...pls allow him enjoy his wealth.

When the missionaries came to Africa, do u knw how much it cost to build the schools, hospitals, roads and houses. But they did it for ur forefathers for free. Took a lot of people overseer to study for free. That's the definition of service

So many irrelevant issues attached to a no-issue.

1. Most of these Private jets are owned by the church,for the convenience of the G.O and other authorities within the church...just like the Presidential jets are owned by the FG, for the convenience of the 'presidency.'

2. As regards the expensive fees of the school, please, bear it in mind that the school has a capacity...and has to generate its own revenue from that capacity and also cover all its costs (salaries, maintenance, taxes etc)...and possibly give excess to the owner (the church). If the fee isn't at the level it is, it may not cover for costs. Please, bear in mind that it is often unallowed by CAMA 1990, for businesses to be funded externally except for some conditions. These schools are actually trying, they hardly hike fees even in the face of changing and unfavorable economic conditions. You can check the history of private institution fees if you're in doubt.

3. As regards giving, in Christianity, it is not compulsory however, it is necessary. The church CANNOT force you to give if you do not want to. What most do is that they emphasize the importance, necessity and advantages of giving (though which may be a form of cajoling).

4. Churches usually have a form of welfare department where members can freely go to to ask for help...financially, morally, socially etc. In fact, many churches urges members to patronize members that offer any business or service and even publicises for them.

I challenge you to show me anyone who has ever been pushed away by a church when he/she went there for assistance.

5. It beats me when people say Pastors should be poor and not enjoy any form if luxury...because there are poor church members. It even amazes me more when critics fail to commend these churches for their good deeds.

Toks2008:


Please enough of this follow follow mentality..be objective man and stop this sentimentality...

I'm not GOD but as human I must express my displeasure which is what this thread is all about.

Stop getting sentimental bro.

Brother, you're sentimental in expressing your displeasure.

I believe one should always try to fully understand what he is displeased about. It is quite normal to be displeased about what one does not fully understand.

Topgainer:

They are not cheap 10th (2nd) hand mini jets. A Nigerian Pastor has Gulf Stream G650 one of the safest Business jets, an experienced American Pilot and Engineers, a hanger in Accra and Ikeja. He doesn't want to die and has gone for the jet reputed to be safer than Bombardier.
Myles Monroe had 4 jets which should enable him travel around the world to preach and convert souls to Christianity. He together with his wife, daughter and key members of his Kingdom principles crusaders were burnt to death on their way "round the World".
It might interest you to know that the Kingdom principles is more about seed sowing, tithes, covenants/partnerships, riches, wealth, estates, publishing cooperations, profitable media groups, business seminars. Yet, his Nigerian American - styled counterparts will not learn that God cannot be mocked.
Modified: Gulfstream G550

Now that Myles and his Wife are late, who owns the jets now?

Do you have an answer?

LaExpert:

Now that Myles and his Wife are late, who owns the jets now?
Do you have an answer?

You mean the crashed one. The metallic components will be taken to scrap yard on conclusion of investigations.
I don't think the son will be foolish enough to refurbish it. For now, he may continue the Kingdom principles of his late parents in a modest way.
Again if the surviving son will turn to the Bible for advice, the Bible will tell him to sell the remaining jets and give the money to the poor then follow Jesus (the missionaries) to Somalia and North Sudan that is where gospel is preached. Business Seminars and Executive Christian Kingdom Principles summit are no gospel

Topgainer:

You mean the crashed one. The metallic components will be taken to scrap yard on conclusion of investigations.
I don't think the son will be foolish enough to refurbish it. For now, he may continue the Kingdom principles of his late parents in a modest way.

He had four!

LaExpert:


He had four!

addressed above

LaExpert:


Brother, you're sentimental in expressing your displeasure.

I believe one should always try to fully understand what he is displeased about. It is quite normal to be displeased about what one does not fully understand.

And that was why I created the thread...to understand so please help me out by first answering the questions I asked...Thanks

LaExpert:


I challenge you to show me anyone who has ever been pushed away by a church when he/she went there for assistance.

Me in 98 and 2001 and many more...the socal led welfare deprtmentioned of many churches are mare charade.

Heavenly102:
I would have no issue with it if many pastors had jets before becoming pastors and started their ministries whilst they were already rich but becoming rich just after starting ministry makes it seem as if you are feeding off of offerings and tithes.

Shey!

Toks2008:


And that was why I created the thread...to understand so please help me out by first answering the questions I asked...Thanks

Read my first post on this thread, where I numbered my points.

If you don't find answers, ask your questions again; directly and in a new post.

Topgainer:
addressed above

You addressed only the crashed one which is now more PR less 'useless.'

Who now owns the other three jets?
If you do not know, feel free to say you do not.

You are only assuming what you think should be.

Toks2008:


Me in 98 and 2001 and many more...the socal led welfare deprtmentioned of many churches are mare charade.

Share your experience, mention the name of the Church, the Pastor and the welfare department heads. Perhaps, we can confirm.

or is this a mere allegation just to buttress your displeasure?

Topgainer:

You mean the crashed one. The metallic components will be taken to scrap yard on conclusion of investigations.
I don't think the son will be foolish enough to refurbish it. For now, he may continue the Kingdom principles of his late parents in a modest way.
Again if the surviving son will turn to the Bible for advice, the Bible will tell him to sell the remaining jets and give the money to the poor then follow Jesus (the missionaries) to Somalia and North Sudan that is where gospel is preached. Business Seminars and Executive Christian Kingdom Principles summit are no gospel

LaExpert:

You addressed only the crashed one which is now more PR less 'useless.'
Who now owns the other three jets?
If you do not know, feel free to say you do not.
You are only assuming what you think should be.

The inheritance of the Estate automatically goes to the son. Nobody is called Church most of such establishments have trustees it is not like orthodox Churches and don't dare you as a member think you have any claim to the jets or a room in the Estate.
If you doubt the truth I just revealed to you. E-mail your jet flying Church Bishop, tell him you are tithe card carrying member of the ministry, that you need one of the jets for an important soul winning business in Sao Paulo. You will definitely find out your place and who the luxury fits.

Topgainer:


The inheritance of the Estate automatically goes to the son. Nobody is called Church most of such establishments have trustees it is not like orthodox Churches and don't dare you as a member think you have any claim to the jets or a room in the Estate.
If you doubt the truth I just revealed to you. E-mail your jet flying Church Bishop, tell him you are tithe card carrying member of the ministry, that you need one of the jets for an important soul winning business in Sao Paulo. You will definitely find out your place and who the luxury fits.

The above is only your assumption. You can't prove it, if you think you can...go ahead.

By what you assume, you're saying Myles Munroe's son has 3 jets.

As regards a member of the congregation using the G.O's jet for an assignment, it really should sound absurd to you...any Nigerian cannot just put a message across to the FG requesting to use the Presidential jets.

Try to be objective...these 'pastors' cannot force anyone to give, they can only persuade you.

LaExpert:

The above is only your assumption. You can't prove it, if you think you can...go ahead.

From the point you started queries on who now owns the jets I already knew where you were headed. So I decided to answer before your next move if you'd read carefully.
You have assumed that the Jets belong to the Ministry. There is nothing like us- the ministry among shrewd businessmen who own Churches. In Such Churches, there is also nothing like us, the trustees in most cases are Father(Bishop), wife and Children maybe a very loyal boy. Men and women who labour in the branches as managers may be given a little recognition and crumbs from the Bishop's table. The rest of you are on your own as you have no claim to anything whatsoever as belonging to us as in Church.


Wake up my friend.
This was not the structure of the early Church.
What we have today is family businesses of men who claim to worship God on one hand and the population of Christianity who form the market (membership) they are competing for. It is a cruel form of it, because of the stiff competition, the big players muscle away the smaller ones harvesting as much membership as they could get.
It is about worship of a man figure who claims to worship God. It is a form of worship that brings in another mediator between man and God. If you like 2 more mediators before Jesus. One is money the other is man of god. This model of Christianity only got foothold in Nigeria in the late 70's and 80's because real men of God who could speak out allowed themselves to be intimadated by the anomalies. 1990's saw the corruption of some others and the spread of the craze (the famous if you can't beat them join them)
It is good that men are beginning to wake up to see the Man on the White horse of Revelations 6
Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
It is a movement of false Christianity already sweeping through the entire Christian space but glory to God it had no arrow for the elects sake.

LaExpert:

Try to be objective...these 'pastors' cannot force anyone to give, they can only persuade you.

I am as Objective and diplomatic as anyone could be.
You're ignorant of so many things happening today in many places of man worship. People are forced to give by way of stiff unwarranted levies, people are coerced to pay certain amounts for unspecified things, men and women are told to pay up otherwise they are not recognized as members much like what obtains in unions. Is that the Church that Jesus died for?
Please, I will respond to reasonable submissions if you come up with any. You darting questions gives me no joy because I see the enslavement of men who have resorted to the worship of fellow men all over.