Hairyrapunzel:


That means a woman can preach right away woman can do more than teaching in the church right?

*facepalms * women are not permitted to teach in A CHURCH GATHERING o. they are to remain silent and if they have any question they are to ask their spouse at home. It seems you are hell bent on supporting women preachers rather than open mindedness. 1 corinthians 14 :34-35 and 1 corinthians 14:37-38 are not rocket sciences, just say you no wan accept. Explain those verses without insulting my intelligence.

Hairyrapunzel:


Oga there is neither male nor female in the body of Christ everyone is equal in the body of Christ.

Answer my question. You have cherry-picked out of two contradictory statements. Answer my questions.

Martinez19:
*facepalms * women are not permitted to teach in A CHURCH GATHERING o. they are to remain silent and if they have any question they are to ask their spouse at home. It seems you are hell bent on supporting women preachers rather than open mindedness. 1 corinthians 14 :34-35 and 1 corinthians 14:37-38 are not rocket sciences, just say you no wan accept. Explain those verses without insulting my intelligence.

That verse says speak so if a woman should not speak that includes speaking in tongues or prophesying in church also which you said a woman can do

Martinez19:
Answer my question. You have cherry-picked out of two contradictory statements. Answer my questions.

Cherry picking ke. You said preaching and teaching are different things your said bible said teach. So I asked also where bible said women preaching or being pastors is a sin?
Women are free people in Christ and there is only one body in Christ so why will Christ give better privileges to men then abandon women. A woman teaching in churches does not mean she is exercising authority over any man.

Hairyrapunzel:

Cherry picking ke. You said preaching and teaching are different things your said bible said teach. So I asked also where bible said women preaching or being pastors is a sin?
Women are free people in Christ and there is only one body in Christ so why will Christ give better privileges to men then abandon women. A woman teaching in churches does not mean she is exercising authority over any man.

teaching by women is no sin but they are not permitted to teach in A CHURCH GATHERING. Why is that hard to understand. The teaching the bible talks about is the teaching of God's Word in a church gathering. See, I am frustrated at arguing with you, soothe thy self.

Martinez19:
teaching by women is no sin but they are not permitted to teach in A CHURCH GATHERING. Why is that hard to understand. The teaching the bible talks about is the teaching of God's Word in a church gathering. See, I am frustrated at arguing with you, soothe thy self.

But they are permitted to preach in churches right? we are both looking at the bible literally right?

Martinez19:
teaching by women is no sin but they are not permitted to teach in A CHURCH GATHERING. Why is that hard to understand. The teaching the bible talks about is the teaching of God's Word in a church gathering. See, I am frustrated at arguing with you, soothe thy self.

Thank God you have said it is no sin for women to teach in churches.

Hairyrapunzel:

But they are permitted to preach in churches right? we are both looking at the bible literally right?

*facepalms * no they are not. What do you yourself mean by preaching? All I know is that women are not allowed to teach God's Word in a church gathering. You want to use preach as an avenue to permit female teachers. I see you

Martinez19:
*facepalms * no they are not. What do you yourself mean by preaching? All I know is that women are not allowed to teach God's Word in a church gathering. You want to use preach as an avenue to permit female teachers. I see you

What sin is committed by women teaching the word of God in the church?

Jman05 where are you? are you still researching?

Hairyrapunzel:


What sin is committed by women teaching the word of God in the church?

it is no sin but it is not permitted. Good bye.

Martinez19:
it is no sin but it is not permitted. Good bye.

Thank God you said it isn't a sin

Martinez19:
it is no sin but it is not permitted. Good bye.

It is not permitted by who?

Hairyrapunzel:


It is not permitted by who?

God. Deviating from God's instruction is a sin. When I said it's no sin for a woman to teach, I meant that it not such a bad thing or offense. In the light of God's Word, they are not to teach. 1 corinthians 14 :37-38. Paul stated this instruction to be God's command and that if anyone won't regard it then such a person should not be regarded.
Again read 1 corinthians 14 :37-38.

JMAN05:
A pastor is a Shepherd, and women are not reckoned as such in the bible, so why do some churches have female pastors. Does it mean that they don't read the bible?


1tim 2:11-12

Cc:
Lalasticlala.

I don't detest to women teaching in churches. But this is why I should...

Rev.2:20-21; Notwithstanding I have a few things against you, because you suffer that woman Jezebel, which calls herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed to idols. 21. And I gave her space repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

You see, it's not a crime or sin 4 them to teach in churches, provided they arey are not in seductive apparels. some women teachers in churches today are very carnal. They way they dress and walk etc. They are very sensual and not morally accepted by Jesus.

Hairyrapunzel:


Amongst two of us who is circumventing?
You asked a question and you answered it yourself answer my own cos I asked mine first

I repeat again
Jman05 according to jws only 144000 men and women inclusive will go to heaven but the bible specifically says in revelation that this 144000 are those who had not being defiled by women and were virgins

So how do you explain women being among the 144000 when the bible clearly states that it is only Virgin men?

If women can be among the 144000 going to heaven according to your teaching then why do you think women can't preach in churches or be pastors?

You didn't answer the question.

Hairyrapunzel:
Jman05 according to jws only 144000 men and women inclusive will go to heaven but the bible specifically says in revelation that this 144000 are those who had not being defiled by women and were virgins

Had not being corrupted or defiled by the world
and not, had not being defiled by women

Hairyrapunzel:
So how do you explain women being among the 144000 when the bible clearly states that it is only Virgin men?

The bible doesnt states whether they are all males, all female or male and female
so I wonder how about this claim that the bible clearly states that it is only ''virgin'' men

Hairyrapunzel:
If women can be among the 144000 going to heaven according to your teaching then why do you think women can't preach in churches or be pastors?

JMAN05:
Why should men be head of women at home when the same women will rule with them in heaven?

Not following you on this
Care to elaborate what you're trying to get at with this?

JMAN05:
Gods arrangement is that women not exercise authority over a man

Gods arrangement is that women not INCORRECTLY exercise authority over a man
or INCORRECTLY teach in the congregation.

Do you accept that Zipporah CLEARLY & CORRECTLY exercised authority over a man called Moses?

JMAN05:
or teach in the congregation

²⁷Just then his disciples came back.
They were shocked to find him talking to a woman,
but none of them had the nerve to ask, "What do you want with her?"
or "Why are you talking to her?"
²⁸Then the woman left her water jar, went back into the town, and said to the men
- John 4:27-28

Bro please go to re-read John 4:4-30, that John 4:27-28 above is just an eye-opener to an insight
Now do you really think that Jesus, in John 4:4-30, went to such great lengths and singled out the ''woman'' for her to internalise the impartation of knowledge she received

MuttleyLaff:
Had not being corrupted or defiled by the world
and not, had not being defiled by women

The bible doesnt states whether they are all males, all female or male and female
so I wonder how about this claim that the bible clearly states that it is only ''virgin'' men

The bible specifically said those who have not been defiled by women and were virgins what translation of the bible do you use?

Revelation 14:3-4. 3 They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed[c] from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb

So since the 144000 were undefiled by women an were virgins So you are saying women could defile women in the bible?

JMAN05:


You didn't answer the question.

After two days welcome back I asked my question first so answer

Hairyrapunzel:


After two days welcome back I asked my question first so answer

When u are serious, i will know.

Martinez19:
Whether you like it or not, the holy book of the christians says that women should not be teachers in the church. They can have the gifts of the holy spirit but the teaching office in the church is reserved for men. Women are to be silent in church. 1corinthians 14: 34-35, 1 corinthians 14: 37-38.

I don't care how many female preachers we have today and in the past, the teaching of God's Word in the church is reserved for men. Women may be prophets, healers or whatever but the preaching of God's Word IN THE CHURCH is for the men. How do you know the women teachers are genuine?

Do your research on YouTube and you will see that the likes of Katherine Kuhlmann, Joyce Meyer and Paula White are scammers. They are fake.

You mean the same YouTube that would tell me anything that someone made up or fabricated

true2god:
I have read and analyses hundreds of JW magazines, especially Awake! and watchtower, and hardly will any edition comes out without any form of Christian bashing, either doctrinally or philosophically. Can you mention any single such edition of the magazines I mentioned that has zero Christian bashing?

You guys will never try that with Islam because they won't accept your bashing and will physically treat your technical intolerance in a violent way. This is a simple fact that your governing body understand.

Again, you are ill-informed.

true2god:
But a woman can give you injection at the hospital, in your buttock. Hypocrite!

Why don't you reject a female nurse giving you injection on your buttock, while you smile in pain? Go and read the genesis why Paul gave that instruction to the early church then you will understand better. If you are familiar with Paul's epistles, he, in various occasions, let us understand that some instructions he gave, to the early church, are his personal advise/opinion without the leading of the Holy Spirit.

You need to understand that there was a great controversy concerning the role of women, in the early church, that made Paul to come up with that epistle. While I never condemned apostle Paul's advise on this matter, you have to understand the circumstances behind every epistle. In Saudi Arabia, they hire only women as midwives but in Europe most midwives are men, why? That's cultural and social differences and that does not make Saudi Arabia or Europe better.

What is the spiritual consequence of a woman leading a Christian congregation? Can you state some? Are you saying God wil never answer a prayer session led by a woman?

1tim 2:11-12

11 Let a woman learn in silence with full submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man, but she is to remain silent

asuustrike2009:

Fuel don finish. Let him recharge his brain before commenting

Fuel is not finished, he wants to sidetrack the discussion. His aim is seen when he refuse to answer a question that directly shows the illogicality of his question. Let him answer it cos therein lies the answer he is searching for.

JMAN05:


Fuel is not finished, he wants to sidetrack the discussion. His aim is seen when he refuse to answer a question that directly shows the illogicality of his question. Let him answer it cos therein lies the answer he is searching for.

Hahaaaaaaaaaa

JMAN05:


1tim 2:11-12

11 Let a woman learn in silence with full submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man, but she is to remain silent

I think am understanding what Paul is saying from here, and that's what am going with. The op clearly stated, whats our opinion about women pastoring churches, my geniune answer is, woman can hold pastoral offices and not apostolic mantles.

asuustrike2009:

And to add to it, they didn't made themselves preachers but Yahweh did that's why in Joel 2:28 did say that " And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

thanks for the insight sir

JMAN05:


1tim 2:11-12

11 Let a woman learn in silence with full submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man, but she is to remain silent

So you know how to quote scriptures. Let me join the argument. Hopefully you won't rain insult on me on this.

In the same book of 1st Timothy 2:4 which says

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Is women included in this statement?

In the same book of 1st Timothy 2:11-12 that you quoted which says
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.


Now my questions :

Sir, can a man exercise authority over someone's else wife?

Sir, can a man delegate an authority to someone's else wife?

Sir, can a man exercise authority over someone's daughter?

Can a husband delegate authority to his wife?

You can see I'm using Sir, there's no need for insult if you're sure of yourself.

MuttleyLaff:
Jacob was still talking with them when Rachel arrived with her father's flock, for she was a shepherd
- Genesis 29:9

Tell me, you whom I love, where you graze your flock and where you rest your sheep at midday.
Why should I be like a veiled woman beside the flocks of your friends?
- Song of Solomon 1:7

Rachel in Genesis 29:9 and the young Shulammite bride in Song of Solomon 1:7 are just two examples of women out of others known as or to be shepherd(ess) in the bible.

The issue is about spiritual shepherd. I don't see how the reference applies.

When with due care & attention you read 1 Tim 2:11-12 in conjunction with 1 Tim 2:13-15 you'll see and find that this is a needless worry and sounding an unfounded alarm about female pastors

and what's in there to read in the bible bro?

So?

Again, with due care & attention, read 1 Tim 2:11-12 in conjunction with 1 Tim 2:13-15 you'll get the proper gist

If you know what is right from what is wrong
but I someone tells you to do a wrong thing
and you succumb to doing it though you know it is wrong
then you've allowed that someone to TEACH OVER you notwithstanding that you already knew it is going to be a wrong thing to do

You in essence allowed that someone to TEACH OVER or EXERCISE AUTHORITY OVER you and influence you to do a wrong thing

The key words in 1 Tim 2:11-12, are ''not TEACH OVER'' as opposed to ''not TEACH''
(i.e. talked about ''TEACH OVER'' and not ''TEACH'')

Adam didnt have any trouble telling his left from his right
His problem was timing. Wrong timing and wrong cue
He took a wrong cue from the ''woman''

As if like a de javu, the same ''woman'' comes back on the scene, reappeared in John 2:3-5, timing still not perfect, yet still giving Jesus a right cue
and further teaching the servants what to do

You seem to be dividing "over" between teach and authority. This isn't the right way of understanding the verse.

Secondly, if I understand you, your point is that teaching as referred to in that verse refers to teaching falsehood over a man. While it would be wrong for a woman to teach falsehood, there is no way we could understand Paul's writing to imply such.

If that were so, the command would have been that "women shouldn't exercise authority over the congregation". Limiting the counsel to men won't be plausible. And such counsel would have been given to men too cos it won't be directed to women as if they are the only gender capable of teaching falsehood.

We read : 8-12

8 So I desire that in every place the men carry on prayer, lifting up loyal hands, without anger and debates. 9 Likewise, the women should adorn themselves in appropriate dress, with modesty and soundness of mind, not with styles of hair braiding and gold or pearls or very expensive clothing, 10 but in the way that is proper for women professing devotion to God, namely, through good works. 11 Let a woman learn in silence with full submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man, but she is to remain silent."

Verse 8, shows the work men should perform in the congregation. Verse 9, he says "likewise, the women should..." That is a switch to another gender in assigning responsibility. The advise is for a christian meeting, a church service.

It appears that some women in the first century were of the habit of challenging the authority of men during 'church service'. No doubt that is why he said that this is what should happen without "anger and debates".

David, in 1 Samuel 25 learned so much from another woman
She was so good, that at the earliest chance, he didnt hesistate to seize the opportunity of marriage to make her his wife

Instead of a woman teaching over a man in matters he knows is wrong
or assuming authority over a man in things that are wrong, she is expected to be quiet
Quietness there implies have the inner tranquility that supports whatever is the right correct and appropriate good action at hand

Be quiet on crap, dont do crap, dont teach crap

Talking over someone is considered rude enough, talkless teach over someone

Women ought to ''TEACH'' right and not to ''TEACH OVER'' right

Read 1 Corinthians 16:19
Now compare 1 Corinthians 16:19 with Acts 18:26
Do you notice anything fascinating, as regards name order and positioning switch in regards to what happened in Acts 18:26?
I wonder what it is, if that isnt a woman teaching a man

Such was exemplary women in the bible. It shows that women do have some among them with good qualities. Some of them do have teaching skills. They could give good advise. These are not in dispute here, no.

The issue here is how a christian service should run. The men take the lead in prayer and in teaching the flock. This role is filled by the elders who act as shepherds. (1pet 5:2)

While women can teach, the arrangement is not to say they can't, but men reflect Gods glory and authority, both in a xten home and in the congregation. 1cor 11:1, 7.

Priscilla is not said to have taught in a christian meeting.

Pastor is meant to be a verb anyway, not a noun
Jesus is the only noun Pastor, everyone else are just verb pastors

Don't understand your verb and noun pastor stuff.

Jhaytee4all:
I don't detest to women teaching in churches. But this is why I should...

Rev.2:20-21; Notwithstanding I have a few things against you, because you suffer that woman Jezebel, which calls herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed to idols. 21. And I gave her space repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

You see, it's not a crime or sin 4 them to teach in churches, provided they arey are not in seductive apparels. some women teachers in churches today are very carnal. They way they dress and walk etc. They are very sensual and not morally accepted by Jesus.

The congregation was execrated for allowing her to teach.

luvmijeje:


So you know how to quote scriptures. Let me join the argument. Hopefully you won't rain insult on me on this.

In the same book of 1st Timothy 2:4 which says

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Is women included in this statement?

In the same book of 1st Timothy 2:11-12 that you quoted which says
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.


Now my questions :

Sir, can a man exercise authority over someone's else wife?[/quote]

First, let me mention that in that verse 4 you quoted, the men refers to perons - male or female. However, from verse 8 and 11, Paul shows a difference between genders in his counsel.

Ur quest: you have to be specific, which authority do you mean? Can a man pray for another man's wife as verse 8 shows men should pray? If that's the authority you mean, yes is the answer.

Can man teach another mans wife in a congregation? Yes.

Sir, can a man delegate an authority to someone's else wife?

For one who prophesies, a head covering is a sign of delegated authority. When men are absent, only females are in the service, men can delegate an exemplary woman to take the lead in prayer. She would have a head covering to perform that act. 1cor 11:1-5.

Sir, can a man exercise authority over someone's daughter?

All and the same as I stated above.

Can a husband delegate authority to his wife?

To teach in there home is the work of the man, the head of his wife. If he is absent, he can delegate the authority for the wife to teach his baptized son at home. If she does so, she would have a head covering. That's a sign of authority delegated.

But none of those can delegate a woman to teach or pray when elders or other capable baptized males are in the church service. Those men must take the lead without being challenged by females no matter her level spiritually.

You can see I'm using Sir, there's no need for insult if you're sure of yourself.

I criticise those who deserve it. You can't come and attribute a revelation to God when He never told you anything and expect me to pet you. You must shame the devil and expose him. James 4:7

JMAN05 For one who prophesies, a head covering is a sign of delegated authority. When men are absent, only females are in the service, men can delegate an exemplary woman to take the lead in prayer. She would have a head covering to perform that act. 1cor 11:1-5.

The same 1st Cor 11:13-16 emphasis on verse 13 which says

13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?


Sir, explain the above verse.


By the way you didn't answer my questions. Ist Timothy 2:11-12 didn't mention prophesy or not. Rather in verse 13 which says

Then Adam was formed then Eve.

The above connote husband and wife relationship. So answer my questions in that context.