₦airaland Forum

analize701:
There's only one Tithe while they are different kinds of offerings. Should our problem now be what we Pay or the Payment? I thought the Anti-Tithers are against the Payment?

My brother, let us be objective here. Should we or should we not pay Tithe is my concern, it's not whether the payment should be in monetary form or crops.

If i were a farmer and i'm able to ascertain what a 10% of all my Yams are and pay my Tithe with it, will that be okay?

Is the Anti-Tithers issue about cash?

1) Christians are encouraged to give, someone said "tithing" is a Principle which I do not fully agree to. But if you say it's a Principle and not a Law, then a Principle is not obligatory on anyone to observe. If tithing was a Law (Mosaic Law), then I would have given you a different answer. "TITHING" is a form of giving, but not the best form of giving as duly explained by Jesus. Remember when He said that if you give to the poor and thirsty, that you are giving to Him?

As a Christian, it is NOT MANDATORY to pay tithes. Like all forms of giving, God will bless you. But never you think "tithes" is the most supreme form of giving to God. Who in his/her right senses ignores weightier matters to go and start paying tithes? Isn't there something called PRIORITIES in life? If tithing and giving to starving Orphans are mutually exclusive options, what will you do in line with the mentality of Jesus Christ?

2) Based on the bolded, please it is very clear to know we are abiding by the instructions given in the scriptures. God is not silly to specifically give rules on paying tithes through food crops and livestock. God fully knew there was gold and silver while He gave the laws on tithing. If you are paying tithes through money, you are disobeying God.


I keep on saying this, the most wicked form of deception is a half truth (mixing of truth with lies). The truth portion of a half-truth would deceive people into thinking they are doing what is right! they would also automatically swallow the lies attached to the truth.

The Pastors and Pastor-preneurs would;

(a) Hammer on 10% payment but ignore the mode of payment which should be food crops and livestock...not Cash!
(b) Guilt trip people and put fear in parishioners about the fear of a fictitious devourer. (Malachi fanboys. The Chapter 4 was majorly addressed to the Priests and not the tithe payers)
(c) Applying Old testament tithes by quoting Malachi...as if there was a church collecting tithes in the days of Malachi.
(d) Pastors automatically taking the position of Levites with no Scriptural backing. (Please can someone explain how Hebrew 7 gives Pastors the right to collect tithes...not even offerings o....TITHE!)
(e) Some churches go as far as keeping tithe cards and checking your tithe records before you can get married!
(f) What is the motive of the Pastors asking for tithe? Cashflow Management? Is God limited to paper money? I'm so sorry, but that's not the God I serve. Jesus rightly said, that if we do not worship God, God can even raise stones to do so. Do you tithers think God really needs your money for His work to function? Did God use money to create Heaven and Earth? This is an irritating mentality I must say! Before tithing and Christianity, God has been working! After this earth passes away, God will still work, and He's not limited to money!

Any one that truly serves God will have money pursuing such a person without even asking. Seek ye first the Kingdom of God (Eternal matters) and His righteousness ... other things (even temporary treasures) will be added unto you.

Is the Church serving God or Mammon? Is Jehovah Jireh limited to gold and silver? Assuming no one pays, do you think God's work cannot continue because God really needs money even if Christians keep saying He owns the whole world? Why is our actions betraying our words?


WHO IS TWISTING THE WORDS OF GOD TO FOOL WHOM? The Truth shall surely prevail over Traditions!

paxonel:
When pastors tell church members if you don't pay tithe then you are robbing God, what do you call that?
Is that not compulsory attempt not to continue robbing God by giving on the side of the giver?

There are things that pastors will say that are indirect, but we all know the meaning.

analize701:
Lolzzz. This thread is not for Children pls.
If you do not know that said that by Himself, then you shs take your tears somewhere else.

Will a man rob God?
Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
Malachi:3:8

Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
Malachi:3:9

Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts,
if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
Malachi:3:10

Pls take your fight to God who threatened you. See who God go threaten, bacteria better pass you before God.

If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts,
I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings:
yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart.
Malachi:2:2

Weytin you go do now, fight am?

Goshen360:
1. Malachi is not talking to believers who Christ died for
2. Believers are not cursed with the curses of the law
3. Flying scriptures around by just quoting doesn't equal to sound doctrines.
Leave scriptures in its right context and dispensation.
That's one of your errors.

And he said unto them,
Take heed, and beware of covetousness:
for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.
- Luke 12:15

My brother, the thing fit tire pesin ooo
These everytime strong desire to possess something, especially like, claiming scriptures that's belongs to and is talking to another people
It makes one, keep saying, if all that's written up there by our sister, isnt or wasnt covetousness, then dont know what to call it

plainbibletruth:
Instead of looking at WHAT in the book of Hebrews maybe you should be looking at WHO.

For example, WHO is the most important person in the book of Hebrews? Why is he so? What is UNIQUE about him?

I hope you know what UNIQUE stands for.
Is this WHO at par with any other person? And then; Is the system, principles, order, whatever else you may call it, which he has and brings at the same level or at completely different and higher level than any other previous ones?

This line of approach may give you a BETTER PICTURE of all that the book of Hebrews is talking about.

analize701:
Are you trying to change my OP for me?
Am not daft not to know what i want.
I want to talk about Hebrews Chpt 7 and WHY, not WHAT,
WHY the Holy Spirit bring Tithe into the teaching.
Pls follow my OP and don't try to change it.

Poster wasnt trying to change your OP for you
Poster is saying, you'll get the WHY, simply from knowing the WHAT, that's all
Poster wasnt suggesting anything about daftness nor nothing about you not knowing what you want

If it will help, to again, talk about the why, then so be it

Earlier asked you to first, establish:
1) Who was Hebrews written?
2) Why was Hebrews written to these particular and peculiar people?
3) What was Paul trying to acheive with writing in detail and at a persuasive length?
4) Later on, had to ask you to take out your KJV Bible, open up Hebrews Chapter One.
Look immediately above Chapter 1,
and to please type in here, verbatim, all that is written above Chapter 1 immediately before the chapter narrative begins

Now before, the why, how many times, was tithe, mentioned in Hebrews Chater 7?
Please keep in mind the symbolic representation, meaning and/or significance of the number, after giving your answer

Let's continue when you're ready, as the ball is now in your court to serve...

analize701:
Lolzzz. This thread is not for Children pls. If you do not know that said that by Himself, then you shs take your tears somewhere else.

Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
Malachi:3:8

Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
Malachi:3:9

Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
Malachi:3:10

Pls take your fight to God who threatened you. See who God go threaten, bacteria better pass you before God.


If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart.
Malachi:2:2

Weytin you go do now, fight am?

I have taken time to look at all your responses to other people's comments and questions in this thread, including the questions you deliberately ignored because you never had answers to them. My conclusion about you is, you have failed woefully.
You have failed to establish reasons for your position on tithe, you are now gasping for breathe

Consequently,you are now resorting to attacks and insulting people rather than defending your position logically and conclusively.

If you think any sensible christian who understand his scripture will buy your idea, may be you should read the summary of everything and why they will never become that foolish.

Hebrews 11:39-40
39. And these all(all the people mentioned in previous verses of this chapter 11, including Abraham who paid tithe) having obtained a good report through faith, RECEIVETH NOT THE PROMISE(inspite all their tithes and good reports):
40. God having provided SOME BETTER THING FOR US.(which is Christ the founder of christianity), that they without us should not be made perfect.

You see that?

Without us(Christians ) Abraham, Melchizedek (who even collected the tithe from Abraham) Isaac,Jacob, prophet Malachi (because you are now quoting Malachi for me and reminding me of courses meant for people who never had the opportunity to receive the promise like i have received), and everyone in the old testament. WITHOUT US(CHRISTIANS), ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT PERFECT.

I asked this question : mention one christian from the book of Act of the apostle down to the book of revelation who has paid tithe?

You know christianity started from the book of act (act 1:15).
That old testament or old covenant(including Malachi) was another religion entirely called Judaism (the religion of the Jews or Israelites) .

Infact, pastors should be the ones paying tithe to me, not me paying to them. I need the money too.
Christ has made me priest, not only them.

This is why i say you have failed.

Adeboye and oyedepo who understand scriptures far more than you, what do you think that makes them remain mute when Daddy freeze challenges them to debate?
Because daddy freeze has exposed their trick, they cannot defend reasons for christian tithing using scriptures.

MuttleyLaff:
And he said unto them,
Take heed, and beware of covetousness:
for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.
- Luke 12:15

My brother, the thing fit tire pesin ooo
These everytime strong desire to possess something, especially like, claiming scriptures that's belongs to and is talking to another people
It makes one, keep saying, if all that's written up there by our sister, isnt or wasnt covetousness, then dont know what to call it

Funny guy

analize701:
Lolzzz.
This thread is not for Children pls.
If you do not know that said that by Himself, then you shs take your tears somewhere else.
Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
Malachi:3:8

Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
Malachi:3:9

Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
Malachi:3:10

Pls take your fight to God who threatened you. See who God go threaten, bacteria better pass you before God.

If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart.
Malachi:2:2

Weytin you go do now, fight am?

paxonel:
I have taken time to look at all your responses to other people's comments
and questions in this thread, including the questions you deliberately ignored because you never had answers to them.
My conclusion about you is, you have failed woefully.
You have failed to establish reasons for your position on tithe, you are now gasping for breathe

Consequently,you are now resorting to attacks and insulting people rather than defending your position logically and conclusively.
If you think any sensible christian who understand his scripture will buy your idea, may be you should read the summary of everything and why they will never become that foolish.

Hebrews 11:39-40
39. And these all(all the people mentioned in previous verses of this chapter 11, including Abraham who paid tithe) having obtained a good report through faith, RECEIVETH NOT THE PROMISE(inspite all their tithes and good reports):
40. God having provided SOME BETTER THING FOR US.(which is Christ the founder of christianity), that they without us should not be made perfect.

You see that?

Without us(Christians ) Abraham, Melchizedek (who even collected the tithe from Abraham) Isaac, Jacob, prophet Malachi
(because you are now quoting Malachi for me and reminding me of courses meant for people who never had the opportunity to receive the promise like i have received),
and everyone in the old testament. WITHOUT US(CHRISTIANS), ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT PERFECT.
I asked this question:
mention one christian from the book of Act of the apostle down to the book of revelation who has paid tithe?
You know christianity started from the book of act (act 1:15).
That old testament or old covenant(including Malachi) was another religion entirely called Judaism (the religion of the Jews or Israelites) .

This is why i say you have failed.

Adeboye and oyedepo who understand scriptures far more than you, what do you think that makes them remain mute when Daddy freeze challenges them to debate?
Because daddy freeze has exposed their trick, they cannot defend reasons for christian tithing using scriptures.

That right there, is part of the WHY
analize701 wants to know for what reason or purpose was tithe mentioned in Hebrews Chapter Seven
Tithe by providence and/or the Holy Spirit's shrewdness, was actually mentioned just and only six times in the Chapter

Well its partly because, if not all or most, some clearly uninformed Hebrews, were ignorantly paying or giving tithes

MuttleyLaff:
That right there, is the WHY
She wants to know for what reason or purpose was tithe mentioned six times in Hebrews Chapter Seven
well its partly because, if not all or most, some clearly uninformed Hebrews, were ignorantly paying or giving tithes

That's not the reason tithe were mentioned in those new testament scriptures.

There is no record that early christians in the new testament knowingly or ignorantly paid tithe.

The reason tithe were mentioned in those scriptures was to affirm the superiority of the christian faith or Grace over over the law(especially the Jewish laws).

And you know tithing was part of the Jewish laws

paxonel:
That's not the reason tithe were mentioned in those new testament scriptures.

There is no record that early christians in the new testament knowingly or ignorantly paid tithe.

The reason tithe were mentioned in those scriptures was to affirm the superiority of the christian faith or Grace over over the law (especially the Jewish laws).

And you know tithing was part of the Jewish laws

¹¹We have much to say about this, but it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand.
¹²In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers,
you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again.
You need milk, not solid food!
¹³Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness.
¹⁴But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.
- Hebrews 5:11-14

Some Jews were still paying or giving tithes to the Levites after the victory at Calvary
merely because of the sake that the temple still existed

What you mentioned is one of the other parts, of the why was tithe mentioned in Hebrews Chapter Seven
It is going to be too long-winded going into details
Most readers dont like long posts, as it turns into information overload for them

MuttleyLaff:
¹¹We have much to say about this, but it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand.
¹²In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers,
you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again.
You need milk, not solid food!
¹³Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness.
¹⁴But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.
- Hebrews 5:11-14

Some Jews were still paying or giving tithes to the Levites after the victory at Calvary
merely because of the sake that the temple still existed

What you mentioned is one of the other parts, of the why was tithe mentioned in Hebrews Chapter Seven
It is going to be too long-winded going into details
Most readers dont like long posts, as it turns into information overload for them

Yeah, that's true!
Very very correct .
I have seen it now, thanks

Because the thing has been part of their religious obligations and tradition, they feel like continuing it

paxonel:
Yeah, that's true!
Very very correct .
I have seen it now, thanks

Because the thing has been part of their religious obligations and tradition, they feel like continuing it

Classic benefit of having an "iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another" healthy dialogue
and "I-learn-from-you-you-learn-from-me" conversation

paxonel:
I have taken time to look at all your responses to other people's comments and questions in this thread, including the questions you deliberately ignored because you never had answers to them. My conclusion about you is, you have failed woefully.
You have failed to establish reasons for your position on tithe, you are now gasping for breathe

Lolzzzz, you may have seen another moniker like mine discussing Tithe on this platform, because Tithe is the least topic i have engaged in the platform, but whatever you say, good for you.

If i decided to leave a post unanswered is not becos i can't answer or because i have nothing to say, maybe because the post is senseless and won't waste my time on it.

paxonel:
Consequently,you are now resorting to attacks and insulting people rather than defending your position logically and conclusively.

I never attacked anyone o, i told you represent points rather than talking for talking sake. If you take that as an insult and are offended, i'm sorry pls.

paxonel:
If you think any sensible christian who understand his scripture will buy your idea, may be you should read the summary of everything and why they will never become that foolish.

Okay. Thank you for your opinion, but i opened this thread not to fight but to exchange views based on the Bible, not how we feel personally.

paxonel:
Hebrews 11:39-40
39. And these all(all the people mentioned in previous verses of this chapter 11, including Abraham who paid tithe) having obtained a good report through faith, RECEIVETH NOT THE PROMISE(inspite all their tithes and good reports):
40. God having provided SOME BETTER THING FOR US.(which is Christ the founder of christianity), that they without us should not be made perfect

Do you think i didn't see this verse? Who is talking about The Promise here? Did i open this thread to talk about perfection?

Sir, the bone of my OP is, WHY did the Holy Spirit bring the issue of Tithing while Comparing tje Priesthood of Melchizedek as the eternal High Priest who had no mother, no father. not linked to the linage of Israel, and compared it with the Priesthood of Christ?

Why did he begin by talking about Tithe taking. Pls discuss my OP or leave me in peace.

paxonel:
You see that?

Without us(Christians ) Abraham, Melchizedek (who even collected the tithe from Abraham) Isaac,Jacob, prophet Malachi (because you are now quoting Malachi for me and reminding me of courses meant for people who never had the opportunity to receive the promise like i have received), and everyone in the old testament. WITHOUT US(CHRISTIANS), ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT PERFECT.

Abeggi, you either don't understand my OP or you are deliberately dodging it.

You said Pastor threaten people to Pay Tithe, and i showed you from the Scriptures that it is God Himself who threatens you, not pastors, now you are attempting to make another issue of it.

Listen, i will not allow you derail my thread, it's either we discuss it, or you let it be.

We are not here talking about who obtained any Promise or who is perfect.

paxonel:
I asked this question : mention one christian from the book of Act of the apostle down to the book of revelation who has paid tithe?

You know christianity started from the book of act (act 1:15).
That old testament or old covenant(including Malachi) was another religion entirely called Judaism (the religion of the Jews or Israelites)

Lolzzzz. Ah nah waoooo. Christians who pick and choose from the Bible what shd apply to them and what should not. Now old Testament belongs only yo the Jews because it involves the issue of Tithe paying.

You are a descendant of Abraham through Christ abi? Shay Abraham na New Testament Patriarch? Shey you claim the Promises in the Old Testament abi? Why will you do that?

I hope you still remember that the Hebrews 11 were you quoted from, connects us with the Patriarchs? Or, you are not a Seed of Abraham through your Faith in Christ? I hail ooo.

Start your life in middle and see how far you go.

paxonel:
Infact, pastors should be the ones paying tithe to me, not me paying to them. I need the money too.
Christ has made me priest, not only them.

Hmmm. If only you have tried getting close to my Op.

You ignore my Op to discuss Pastors?
Wise men talk only when they have something to say...

paxonel:
This is why i say you have failed.

This would have been true if you had tried discussing my Op. lolzz.

paxonel:
Adeboye and oyedepo who understand scriptures far more than you, what do you think that makes them remain mute when Daddy freeze challenges them to debate?
Because daddy freeze has exposed their trick, they cannot defend reasons for christian tithing using scriptures.

So Bishop Oyedepo will stoop to respond to Freeze? Lolzzzzzzzzzz. You must attach great value to this Freeze Character. sorry not everyone is as flimsy and idle like you are.

Who is Freeze to challenge his grand father? You actually believe Pa Adeboye will take out time to respond to an empty ambitionless attention seeker like Freeze? What stupidity? What are Freeze's contributions to the Lives of Nigerians aside from talking on radio, who is he?

I, in low estate has not responded to him, will Fathers do? Really? abeg Gererahia.

From start to finish, you have said absolutely nothing, so from here i say to you, good bye.

When you go into a thread, read the Op and address it.

analize701:
Lolzzzz, you may have seen another moniker like mine discussing Tithe on this platform, because Tithe is the least topic i have engaged in the platform, but whatever you say, good for you.

If i decided to leave a post unanswered is not becos i can't answer or because i have nothing to say, maybe because the post is senseless and won't waste my time on it.

I never attacked anyone o, i told you represent points rather than talking for talking sake. If you take that as an insult and are offended, i'm sorry pls.

Okay. Thank you for your opinion, but i opened this thread not to fight but to exchange views based on the Bible, not how we feel personally.


Do you think i didn't see this verse? Who is talking about The Promise here? Did i open this thread to talk about perfection?

Sir, the bone of my OP is, WHY did the Holy Spirit bring the issue of Tithing while Comparing tje Priesthood of Melchizedek as the eternal High Priest who had no mother, no father. not linked to the linage of Israel, and compared it with the Priesthood of Christ?

Why did he begin by talking about Tithe taking. Pls discuss my OP or leave me in peace.

Abeggi, you either don't understand my OP or you are deliberately dodging it.

You said Pastor threaten people to Pay Tithe, and i showed you from the Scriptures that it is God Himself who threatens you, not pastors, now you are attempting to make another issue of it.

Listen, i will not allow you derail my thread, it's either we discuss it, or you let it be.

We are not here talking about who obtained any Promise or who is perfect.

Lolzzzz. Ah nah waoooo. Christians who pick and choose from the Bible what shd apply to them and what should not. Now old Testament belongs only yo the Jews because it involves the issue of Tithe paying.

You are a descendant of Abraham through Christ abi? Shay Abraham na New Testament Patriarch? Shey you claim the Promises in the Old Testament abi? Why will you do that?

I hope you still remember that the Hebrews 11 were you quoted from, connects us with the Patriarchs? Or, you are not a Seed of Abraham through your Faith in Christ? I hail ooo.

Start your life in middle and see how far you go.

Hmmm. If only you have tried getting close to my Op.

You ignore my Op to discuss Pastors?
Wise men talk only when they have something to say...

This would have been true if you had tried discussing my Op. lolzz.

So Bishop Oyedepo will stoop to respond to Freeze? Lolzzzzzzzzzz. You must attach great value to this Freeze Character. sorry not everyone is as flimsy and idle like you are.

Who is Freeze to challenge his grand father? You actually believe Pa Adeboye will take out time to respond to an empty ambitionless attention seeker like Freeze? What stupidity? What are Freeze's contributions to the Lives of Nigerians aside from talking on radio, who is he?

I, in low estate has not responded to him, will Fathers do? Really? abeg Gererahia.
From start to finish, you have said absolutely nothing, so from here i say to you, good bye.

When you go into a thread, read the Op and address it.

https://gifyu.com/images/steadylaugh.gif
at abeg gererahia mayne

MuttleyLaff:
Poster wasnt trying to change your OP for you
Poster is saying, you'll get the WHY, simply from knowing the WHAT, that's all
Poster wasnt suggesting anything about daftness nor nothing about you not knowing what you want

Bros, my Op is not about the whole book of Hebrews. I made it clear that i wanted us to X-Ray Hebrews chp 7, for, what is talked about there is not connected to all other chapters of the book. O well, Chapters 8 and 9 could enter the discussion, but not all of Hebrews. You guys are trying to shift grounds here o.

MuttleyLaff:
[quote author=MuttleyLaff post=62872200]If it will help, to again, talk about the why, then so be it

Yes pls, lets talk about the why.

MuttleyLaff:
Earlier asked you to first, establish:
1) Who was Hebrews written?

Hebrews is written to anyone who has Christ over his or her life as a High Priest.

MuttleyLaff:
2) Why was Hebrews written to these particular and peculiar people?

The book of Hebrews is written to those who are under the New covenant, with Christ as their High Priest. These particular and peculiar people are referred as The Church', the Holy Spirit as their guide.

MuttleyLaff:
3) What was Paul trying to acheive with writing in detail and at a persuasive length?

Lolzz, i hope you realize that you are trying to turn the table and sit where i shd be and be asking this questions? You shd be the one giving answers to this questions not the other way round.

Nevertheless, i will answer you.
Paul took time to take his audience back to the beginning of Priesthoods, long before Levi was born to explain what God had intended for the entire human race. But, for the time being, He dealt with the people using what Paul called 'The shadows of the things that were to come'.

As Matter of fact, the Holy Spirit had seen this confussion which shd arise, hence, he brought Melchizedek into the Scene, that man had no bizness being mentioned at all, as he was mentioned once and never again. There was a reason WHY he was mentioned in Genesis.

Later Levi was born, and subsequently, the temporal office of the Priesthood (A shadow of the real), was conferred on him, and his duties specified. But, YHWH did not carry on with them without telling them that he would change it. Paul made them understand in Hebrews 8 and 9 that God had promised to change the Priesthood.

Now, Christ has come, the Promised Seed, the heir, the eternal High Priest who went into the Tabernacle which is in heaven, which Moses was instructed to build a replica on earth, not the one in Jerusalem, not with the blood of animals like the earthly priest wld do, but with his own pure perfect blood and offered it once and for all to His father as a Ransome for sin.

Paul in details explained to the New Covenant Practitioners and believers who believe that they are Justified by their faith in Christ, that we have no more need to depend on the earthly Priesthood of Men who goes into the Temple once a year, with the blood of animals to cover our sins but leaves our consciences raw, because Christ has blotted them out.

He explained that the Priesthood of Christ is eternal, as a matter of fact, he called Christ Melchizedek. The comparison he made of Christ and Melchizedek indicated that Christ appeared i. the person of Melchizedek to Abraham and took Tithe.

He made us to know, WHY there was need for the Priesthood of Levi to end and the Priesthood of Christ to be established.

He made us to know WHY we no longer have need to pay our obligations to the Levitical Priests any longer, because they have been replaced with an eternal Priest hood which is Christ's. Our obligations as the New Generation/covenant practitioners is to Christ the eternal High priest.

Our Tithing is now eternal because we pay it to an eternal High Priest. This is the WHY i have been asking all along and you guys kept avoiding it.

MuttleyLaff:
4) Later on, had to ask you to take out your KJV Bible, open up Hebrews Chapter One.
Look immediately above Chapter 1,
and to please type in here, verbatim, all that is written above Chapter 1 immediately before the chapter narrative begins

It is written 'The Epistle of Paul to the Hebrews'.
And, i also said to you that, if we shd tow your logic, the letters Christ wrote through Apostle John to the Seven Churches will not concern me. The Epistles of Paul to the Romans, Corinthians, Ephesians, Colosians and the ones he wrote specifically to Timothy and Titus etc, will not concern me, for i am a black heathen from Nigeria.

MuttleyLaff:
Now before, the why, how many times, was tithe, mentioned in Hebrews Chater 7?
Please keep in mind the symbolic representation, meaning and/or significance of the number, after giving your answer

Tithe was mentioned once, and very significant. If you consider it, there was no need for it to be mentioned if you ask me, this is why am intrigued as to WHY it was brought in, the first place.

If it's all about pointing to Christ as the High Priest who had to replace the Levitical Priesthood, Paul would ve just gone ahead to explain the Priesthood according to the Order of Melchizedek and connect it to Christ's. BUT HE INCLUDED TITHING, WHY? IS MY BONE.

MuttleyLaff:
Let's continue when you're ready, as the ball is now in your court to serve...

If i wasn't ready, i wouldn't open this thread o. lol.

MuttleyLaff:
And he said unto them,
Take heed, and beware of covetousness:
for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.
- Luke 12:15

My brother, the thing fit tire pesin ooo
These everytime strong desire to possess something, especially like, claiming scriptures that's belongs to and is talking to another people
It makes one, keep saying, if all that's written up there by our sister, isnt or wasnt covetousness, then dont know what to call it

Bros, i don't see where covetousness comes in here o. You can't accuse me of being covetous when it's my money that is given out. I will strongly say the covetous ones here are those who won't pay their tithes o.

How can i be giving out, yet you cause me of being covetous, or had covetousness changed it's meaning?

I don't pick and choose from the Bible. The only thing which i don't do in the Bible is keeping to the laws which was believed that in keeping to them we are made right with God. Christ has bought me Grace, and redemption, am now Justified, its free.

I no longer need to kill an animal to atone for my sins, Christ has paid for them. But every other thing in the old testament i will do. Sacrificial laws are blotted out, but the moral laws are still binding on me. The Ten Command is still binding on me even when it was given to the Jews.

The law of sowing and reaping still remains valid.

bloodofthelamb:
WHO MADE THAT LAW?

WHY DID THE HOLY SPIRIT OMIT SUCH AN IMPORTANT DOCTRINE, THAT WILL KEEP AWAY THE DEVOURER AWAY FROM THE NEW TESTAMENT OF GRACE?

There is no new Bible for the church . They had the Torah . They only interpret it. Why was paul quoting Torah ? Secondly according to you does it mean anything not in the epistle is not aoplicable
What of incest? Can a brother marry his sibling since the New Testament scriptures didn’t do a doctrine on it

Goshen360:
1. Malachi is not talking to believers who Christ died for
2. Believers are not cursed with the curses of the law
3. Flying scriptures around by just quoting doesn't equal to sound doctrines. Leave scriptures in its right context and dispensation. That's one of your errors.

Hmmm. Pls read the responds made to others here too so that you can get a better understand of what is being said here.


The question i have been asking, yet you guys jump over it is, Did Tithing begin with the Law of Moses?

Goshen360:
Who's a servant of God? Does a servant of God go about twisting scriptures after being shown sound doctrines? Am I not a servant of God too? And btw, how are we sure you're not them or part of them in disguise? You people have a funny way of trying to win an argument? Anyway, let's continue, if you're posting a question to me, quote me and post your comments.

I pay tithe, am not in a position to take tithe. I'm Christian discussion Biblical Principles, and so far, i have maintained that we talk issues not names calling. Its too cheap and low for adults.

Did Tithing Originate with Levi?

MuttleyLaff:
That right there, is part of the WHY
analize701 wants to know for what reason or purpose was tithe mentioned in Hebrews Chapter Seven
Tithe by providence and/or the Holy Spirit's shrewdness, was actually mentioned just and only six times in the Chapter

Well its partly because, if not all or most, some clearly uninformed Hebrews, were ignorantly paying or giving tithes

Lolz. The guy didn't go close to the why.

Goshen360:
YOU, are in the major front promoting false tithing doctrine to Christians here and I'm here challengin YOU with scriptures. You have said too many things which are NOT consistent in this tithe topic. It shows you're lying and twisting scriptures to interpret out of context.

Stop getting petty and personal just go to the scripture and prove your point . Deal with topic .

From tithing is eternal principles to law tithing to because we're seed of Abraham to God use it to pay for rent, chair, air conditioning etc.....which one exactly is it? Which principle? Did God forgot to tell us to tithe according to principles or according to what's written? Btw, you can't justify tithe by any means especially those lines of Abraham seed?

Tithes , offerings , fasting , prayers , alms , Justice etc will all be principles across dispensations

2. Malachi was a prophet UNDER THE DISPENSATION OF THE LAW just as Jesus was a prophet under the law too

You have even answered yourself . That means you should never quote jesus again . You just shot your doctrine in the foot there

So what's your point? Are Christians under the dispensation of the law of Moses or Grace of Christ?

There are principles before the law . There are principles in the law . They are kingdom principles

[3. Abraham tithe to Melchizedek and that's not transferred to Christians TO CONTINUE TO TITHE

Where did the Bible say so. Tithing has no end just as offering .

b. Faith NOT tithe is what scriptures says connect us and Abraham TO OR WITH CHRIST.

Tithe was part of his life of faith .

c. Abraham PAID tithe to Melchizedek and if we go by your message/logic of we being Abraham seed. It means when Abraham paid tithe to Melchizedek, we IN HIM ALSO PAID OR HAVE PAID TITHE to Melchizedek. Hebrews 7vs9

But Levite who paid tithe in Abraham still paid tithe of tithe.

petra1:
There is no new Bible for the church . They had the Torah . They only interpret it. Why was paul quoting Torah ? Secondly according to you does it mean anything not in the epistle is not aoplicable
What of incest? Can a brother marry his sibling since the New Testament scriptures didn’t do a doctrine on it

YOU DON'T GET IT. THERE IS NO LAW BINDING A SPIRIT FILLED BELIEVER... WE DON'T NEED A LAW TO MAKE US LIVE AND ACT RIGHT.

A SPIRIT FILLED BELIEVER NATURAL AND EFFORTLESSLY DO WHAT IS RIGHT, BECAUSE IT IS HIS/HER NATURE...

analize701:
Are you trying to change my OP for me? Am not daft not to know what i want. I want to talk about Hebrews Chpt 7 and WHY, not WHAT , WHY the Holy Spirit brought Tithe into the teaching. Pls follow my OP and don't try to change it.

Look at these:
1. "... ... but having been made like the Son of God, he remains a priest without interruption and without successor."
HEBREWS 7:3 AMP
Melchizedek was "made like the Son of God".

2. " ... ...what further need was there for another and different kind of priest to arise, one in the manner of Melchizedek, rather than one appointed to the order of Aaron?"
HEBREWS 7:11 AMP
Jesus' priesthood is being compared to Melchizedek's not Aaronic.

3. The EMPHASIS is that Jesus' priesthood is SUPERIOR to the Levitical priesthood because it is based on the category that Melchizedek's was.

4. Tithes was only used to highlight the superiority of Melchizedek's priesthood not to suggest that tithes is still to be paid.

5. To the DIRECT BENEFICIARIES of this letter it was like saying:
"Look, Jesus's priesthood supercedes that of Aaron and belongs to the category that the Melchizedek's type was; so stop wanting to go back to an inferior system and stick to the better one in Christ!"

6. An honest student of the Bible would want to get both WHOLE picture as well as particular details. This is one area many of you fail. You want support for your TITHE so you go about looking for wherever you can find it. Once you see that word the next thing will be to FIT it into your mould by all means.

7. The book of Hebrews started out with the superiority of Jesus. It continued with that same theme well into the book. It went on toward the end to say:
"Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice ... ..."

It ALL about Jesus. When Christians therefore reduce what is in this book to issues like tithes they are not just trivializing the work of Christ but setting themselves up against the God who is " a consuming fire".

petra1:
Stop getting petty and personal just go to the scripture and prove your point . Deal with topic .
Tithes , offerings , fasting , prayers , alms , Justice etc will all be principles across dispensations

Kindly CLEARLY show us from the Bible where "Tithes" are said to apply to the dispensation of the church.

petra1:
You have even answered yourself . That means you should never quote jesus again . You just shot your doctrine in the foot there

Now you are doing what you'll quickly blame others for!
No one is implying that because Jesus lived under a different dispensation there is nothing there for the Christian to learn from. Rightly dividing the word of truth is still very key.

petra1:
There are principles before the law . There are principles in the law . They are kingdom principles

Again,Kindly CLEARLY show us where "Tithes" are said to apply to the dispensation of the church.

petra1:
Where did the Bible say so. Tithing has no end just as offering .

Where did the Bible say so?

petra1:
Tithe was part of his life of faith .

Where did the Bible say so?

petra1:
But Levite who paid tithe in Abraham still paid tithe of tithe.

On what basis did they do that? On the basis of Abrahamic "eternal principle" tithing or on the basis of the COMMAND in the Law?

plainbibletruth:
Look at these:
1. "... ... but having been made like the Son of God, he remains a priest without interruption and without successor."
HEBREWS 7:3 AMP
Melchizedek was "made like the Son of God".

This is not in contention.

plainbibletruth:
2. " ... ...what further need was there for another and different kind of priest to arise, one in the manner of Melchizedek, rather than one appointed to the order of Aaron?"
HEBREWS 7:11 AMP
Jesus' priesthood is being compared to Melchizedek's not Aaronic.

This also is not in contention.

plainbibletruth:
3. The EMPHASIS is that Jesus' priesthood is SUPERIOR to the Levitical priesthood because it is based on the category that Melchizedek's was.

Correct.

plainbibletruth:
4. Tithes was only used to highlight the superiority of Melchizedek's priesthood not to suggest that tithes is still to be paid.

This is your own point of View
The Holy Spirit did some explanations there which should tell us if mentioning Tithing here was to just Emphasize the superiority of the Priesthood according to the Order of Melchizedek

Hebrews 7:6 Good News.
Melchizedek was not descended from Levi, but he collected one tenth from Abraham and blessed him, the man who received God's promises.

7:8 In the case of the priests the tenth is collected by men who die; but as for Melchizedek the tenth was collected by one who lives, as the scripture says.

Hebrews 7:12 For when the priesthood is changed, there also has to be a change in the law.

Hebrews 7:15 Another Priest, like Melchizedek The matter becomes even plainer; a different priest has appeared, who is like Melchizedek.

Pls let's pay close attention to what verse 8 says.

In case the of the Levitical Priesthood, those who collect Tithes die, but in the case of Melchizedek and Christ's the Tithe collectors live for ever. Can't you see it?

This is the reason i have been insisting on the WHY, Tithing was mentioned here. It wasn't mentioned to only give credence to the Melchizedek's Priesthood.

The motive is to let the New Covenant practitioners to see and know who they shd pay their allegiance and obligations to now.
Again, it is for the New Covenant practitioners to know that the ordinance of Tithing Precedes and Transcends the Law.
It is to point us to the New High who will resumes the duties of Melchizedek, and because this High Priest lives forever, the ordinance of Tithe paying is to be done until the High Priest returns.

plainbibletruth:
5. To the DIRECT BENEFICIARIES of this letter it was like saying:
"Look, Jesus's priesthood supercedes that of Aaron and belongs to the category that the Melchizedek's type was; so stop wanting to go back to an inferior system and stick to the better one in Christ!"

The direct Beneficiaries of this letter is anyone who believes in the finished work of Christ on the Cross as a Ransome and Justification for their Sins. Those who believe that they are heirs of salvation, and are they seed of Abraham by virtue of their Faith in Christ.

Make una stop this picking and choosing when it suits you. When you reject something, the Bible is talking to the Jews, when you accept what you want, you become a descendant of Abraham through Faith. Abegi.

The Priesthood according to the Order of Melchizedek/Jesus is the living Priesthood. Christ will do what Melchizedek did, Take Tithe.

plainbibletruth:
6. An honest student of the Bible would want to get both WHOLE picture as well as particular details. This is one area many of you fail. You want support for your TITHE so you go about looking for wherever you can find it. Once you see that word the next thing will be to FIT it into your mould by all means.

You are more guilty of this than i am. If you are an honest Bible student, you should have admitted by now that Tithing precedes and Transcends the Law. You'd see that Tithing is an eternal ordinance just like the Priesthood of Melchizedek and Christ's are eternal. But, you would rather pick and choose from the Bible what you want.

Hebrews 7:8 just pointed to us who takes Tithing. The living High Priest take Tithes not the dead one. Is Christ alive?

plainbibletruth:
7. The book of Hebrews started out with the superiority of Jesus. It continued with that same theme well into the book. It went on toward the end to say:
"Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice ... ..."

My brother if the matter is all about the superiority of the eternal Priesthood of Melchizedek, Paul wouldn't have gone to the length of talking about the Living taking Tithe.

[b...Lets us therefore continually offer our sacrifices to God through Christ the LIVING HIGH PRIEST.[/b] What does this say?
Guy, you have decided not to pay Tithe so mush so that, even the same scriptures you bring up screams against your stance but you refuse to hear.

plainbibletruth:
It ALL about Jesus. When Christians therefore reduce what is in this book to issues like tithes they are not just trivializing the work of Christ but setting themselves up against the God who is " a consuming fire".

Bros, no one is trivialising any Biblical Concept or ordinance here but you. If Christ was against people Tithe, he wouldn't commend the Jews for doing it and saying in that they did well, but that they should neglect other ordinances too.

Its All About Christ. Tithing is our display of obedience and allegiance to our Eternals high Priest and King, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, the Only begotten Son of the Only Living God.

The problem with you is pastors taking tithe, you can't see beyond pastors.

When i pay my Tithe, the hand receiving it from me is not my Pastor, its Jesus', the High Priest. If the collects my Tithe and misappropriates it, he'll stand before the Most High God, the Judge of all the Earth to answer for it. His misdemeanor won't keep me from doing my obligations

MuttleyLaff:
https://gifyu.com/images/steadylaugh.gif
at abeg gererahia mayne

I'm not gering aurahia o

Sorry for the late reply.

OkaiCorne:
1) Christians are encouraged to give, someone said "tithing" is a Principle which I do not fully agree to. But if you say it's a Principle and not a Law, then a Principle is not obligatory on anyone to observe. If tithing was a Law (Mosaic Law), then I would have given you a different answer. "TITHING" is a form of giving, but not the best form of giving as duly explained by Jesus. Remember when He said that if you give to the poor and thirsty, that you are giving to Him?

My dear, Tithe paying is a command, that's why you Pay it, you don't give it. You Pay. What is the difference between giving and Paying?
Like i said before, there are diverse kinds of givings, but only one Tithe.

But, if you think Tithe paying is not important, then let the matte

OkaiCorne:
As a Christian, it is NOT MANDATORY to pay tithes. Like all forms of giving, God will bless you. But never you think "tithes" is the most supreme form of giving to God. Who in his/her right senses ignores weightier matters to go and start paying tithes? Isn't there something called PRIORITIES in life? If tithing and giving to starving Orphans are mutually exclusive options, what will you do in line with the mentality of Jesus Christ?

O Well, as a Christian it is also not mandatary to stop fornication or lying.

One thing i know and am sure is that, the ordinance of Tithing precedes and transcends the law, hence; if God say 'Bring you all the Tithes into my storehouse, that there may be food in my house', then it's a command.

OkaiCorne:
2) Based on the bolded, please it is very clear to know we are abiding by the instructions given in the scriptures. God is not silly to specifically give rules on paying tithes through food crops and livestock. God fully knew there was gold and silver while He gave the laws on tithing. If you are paying tithes through money, you are disobeying God.

I asked you before, is the issue now about what we Tithe with or the Act of Tithing?

OkaiCorne:
I keep on saying this, the most wicked form of deception is a half truth (mixing of truth with lies). The truth portion of a half-truth would deceive people into thinking they are doing what is right! they would also automatically swallow the lies attached to the truth.

What is half truth?

OkaiCorne:
(a) Hammer on 10% payment but ignore the mode of payment which should be food crops and livestock...not Cash!
(b) Guilt trip people and put fear in parishioners about the fear of a fictitious devourer. (Malachi fanboys. The Chapter 4 was majorly addressed to the Priests and not the tithe payers)
(c) Applying Old testament tithes by quoting Malachi...as if there was a church collecting tithes in the days of Malachi.
(d) Pastors automatically taking the position of Levites with no Scriptural backing. (Please can someone explain how Hebrew 7 gives Pastors the right to collect tithes...not even offerings o....TITHE!)
(e) Some churches go as far as keeping tithe cards and checking your tithe records before you can get married!
(f) What is the motive of the Pastors asking for tithe? Cashflow Management? Is God limited to paper money? I'm so sorry, but that's not the God I serve. Jesus rightly said, that if we do not worship God, God can even raise stones to do so. Do you tithers think God really needs your money for His work to function? Did God use money to create Heaven and Earth? This is an irritating mentality I must say! Before tithing and Christianity, God has been working! After this earth passes away, God will still work, and He's not limited to money!

Till now you have not been able to truthfully answer if Tithing transcends the law. If it does and Christ is a High Priest right now, and High Priest has the duty of collecting Tithes.

Why did Jesus appointed 12 men to work with him? The administration of the church is under men with Christ as the head.

[quote author=OkaiCorne post=62870238]color=#770077]Any one that truly serves God will have money pursuing such a person without even asking. Seek ye first the Kingdom of God (Eternal matters) and His righteousness ... other things (even temporary treasures) will be added unto you.[/color]

A chunk of your post is just off my Op so, i will ignore.

And, you seem to be to me in the second person. I'm here, why not ask me questions directly?

What i needed you to ask me was how Hebrews 7 mandated men to take Tithe in the place of Christ the High priest, but you went rambling on and on.

analize701:
This is not in contention.

This also is not in contention.


Correct.

This is your own point of View
The Holy Spirit did some explanations there which should tell us if mentioning Tithing here was to just Emphasize the superiority of the Priesthood according to the Order of Melchizedek

Hebrews 7:6 Good News.
Melchizedek was not descended from Levi, but he collected one tenth from Abraham and blessed him, the man who received God's promises.

7:8 In the case of the priests the tenth is collected by men who die; but as for Melchizedek the tenth was collected by one who lives, as the scripture says.

Hebrews 7:12 For when the priesthood is changed, there also has to be a change in the law.

Hebrews 7:15 Another Priest, like Melchizedek The matter becomes even plainer; a different priest has appeared, who is like Melchizedek.

Pls let's pay close attention to what verse 8 says.

In case the of the Levitical Priesthood, those who collect Tithes die, but in the case of Melchizedek and Christ's the Tithe collectors live for ever. Can't you see it?

This is the reason i have been insisting on the WHY, Tithing was mentioned here. It wasn't mentioned to only give credence to the Melchizedek's Priesthood.

The motive is to let the New Covenant practitioners to see and know who they shd pay their allegiance and obligations to now.
Again, it is for the New Covenant practitioners to know that the ordinance of Tithing Precedes and Transcends the Law.
It is to point us to the New High who will resumes the duties of Melchizedek, and because this High Priest lives forever, the ordinance of Tithe paying is to be done until the High Priest returns.


The direct Beneficiaries of this letter is anyone who believes in the finished work of Christ on the Cross as a Ransome and Justification for their Sins. Those who believe that they are heirs of salvation, and are they seed of Abraham by virtue of their Faith in Christ.

Make una stop this picking and choosing when it suits you. When you reject something, the Bible is talking to the Jews, when you accept what you want, you become a descendant of Abraham through Faith. Abegi.

The Priesthood according to the Order of Melchizedek/Jesus is the living Priesthood. Christ will do what Melchizedek did, Take Tithe.


You are more guilty of this than i am. If you are an honest Bible student, you should have admitted by now that Tithing precedes and Transcends the Law. You'd see that Tithing is an eternal ordinance just like the Priesthood of Melchizedek and Christ's are eternal. But, you would rather pick and choose from the Bible what you want.

Hebrews 7:8 just pointed to us who takes Tithing. The living High Priest take Tithes not the dead one. Is Christ alive?


My brother if the matter is all about the superiority of the eternal Priesthood of Melchizedek, Paul wouldn't have gone to the length of talking about the Living taking Tithe.

[b...Lets us therefore continually offer our sacrifices to God through Christ the LIVING HIGH PRIEST.[/b] What does this say?
Guy, you have decided not to pay Tithe so mush so that, even the same scriptures you bring up screams against your stance but you refuse to hear.

Bros, no one is trivialising any Biblical Concept or ordinance here but you. If Christ was against people Tithe, he wouldn't commend the Jews for doing it and saying in that they did well, but that they should neglect other ordinances too.

Its All About Christ. Tithing is our display of obedience and allegiance to our Eternals high Priest and King, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, the Only begotten Son of the Only Living God.

The problem with you is pastors taking tithe, you can't see beyond pastors.

When i pay my Tithe, the hand receiving it from me is not my Pastor, its Jesus', the High Priest. If the collects my Tithe and misappropriates it, he'll stand before the Most High God, the Judge of all the Earth to answer for it. His misdemeanor won't keep me from doing my obligations

Let me ask you these questions;

1) Do you think the Church would shut down if people are no longer paying offering and tithes?

2) Did God use money (tithes in particular) to create Heaven and Earth?

3) If your answer to my previous question is no...then why do you see this discussion on tithe as an attack to the Church, are you implying God or the work of God is limited to the money made available?

I have other questions for you after you've answered these.

analize701:
Sorry for the late reply.

My dear, Tithe paying is a command, that's why you Pay it, you don't give it. You Pay. What is the difference between giving and Paying?
Like i said before, there are diverse kinds of givings, but only one Tithe.

But, if you think Tithe paying is not important, then let the matte

O Well, as a Christian it is also not mandatary to stop fornication or lying.

One thing i know and am sure is that, the ordinance of Tithing precedes and transcends the law, hence; if God say 'Bring you all the Tithes into my storehouse, that there may be food in my house', then it's a command.

I asked you before, is the issue now about what we Tithe with or the Act of Tithing?


What is half truth?

Till now you have not been able to truthfully answer if Tithing transcends the law. If it does and Christ is a High Priest right now, and High Priest has the duty of collecting Tithes.

Why did Jesus appointed 12 men to work with him? The administration of the church is under men with Christ as the head.

1) Okay, let's assume we are paying "tithes" to Christ...how did Pastors enter the equation?

2) Are you saying God called them do serve Him full time? And on that basis we should be paying tithes to them? Helllllooooo, Paul was a tent maker for a reason...despite being a full time missionary.

3) If we all follow Christ, should we be paying one another "tithes"? What makes these Pastors the legal recipient of these tithes? Are they the only ones serving Jesus? or are the rest of the Parishioners serving the Devil?

4) After all of these, let's even assume that the Pastors are the legal recipients, are they sharing these proceeds to everyone in the church in such a way that no one lacks...as shown by the church model in the Acts of the Apostles?

THAT YOU HAVE WORSHIPERS LACKING TO MEET THEIR BASIC NEEDS EVEN IN THE CHURCH SHOULD SET OFF AN ALARM BELL IN YOUR HEAD THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THE CHURCH SYSTEM OF TODAY.

Goshen360:
Who's a servant of God? Does a servant of God go about twisting scriptures after being shown sound doctrines? Am I not a servant of God too? And btw, how are we sure you're not them or part of them in disguise? You people have a funny way of trying to win an argument? Anyway, let's continue, if you're posting a question to me, quote me and post your comments.

Sound Doctrine according to who? You? Oh your doctrine is sound and theirs is not, because you say so.abi? Sound doctrine which you cheer pick what you want to accept from the Bible abi?

I sense Pride in you sir. pls, watch it. no offence. but your tone oozes judgementalism and self conceitedness and self righteousness is as deadly as idolatry.

Even if these men were murderers, you as a Christian should not because of them sin by how they make you feel. Now, you stand as God in judgement against them. Do you think your malignity will be better judgement than God would if they are in the wrong?

If you have pride in you, then you are worst than these men you condemn.

OkaiCorne:
1) Okay, let's assume we are paying "tithes" to Christ...how did Pastors enter the equation?

God wanted to rule the earth from Heaven, yet He put Adam on earth to take charge why?

God wanted to be the King of Israel and rule them from heaven, why did he choose Samuel to stand in for Him?

Jesus was present and donations and all manner of giving which the Bible didn't specify were done, Why did he put Judah Iscariot as the treasurer or the keeper of the purse? Why didn't he keep the save himself?

Lolzzz, why did Jesus give his Holy Spirit to men and empowered them commanding that they should OCCUPY until his returns?
What kind of a question is this?

OkaiCorne:
2) Are you saying God called them do serve Him full time? And on that basis we should be paying tithes to them? Helllllooooo, Paul was a tent maker for a reason...despite being a full time missionary.

Pls, I will like you to calm down a bit, you are prancing and as a result, we may just be wasting time here instead of getting admonished.

Apostle Paul becoming a Tenth maker was because
1. He chose to do it. And, that's because, he needed to enter the people doing what the people did.

Secondly, Paul, decided not to use his privileges, not because he was not entitled to them.

Good News Translation 1 Corinthians 9:1-18

Am I not a free man?

Am I not an apostle? Haven't I seen Jesus our Lord? And aren't you the result of my work for the Lord?

Even if others do not accept me as an apostle, surely you do! Because of your life in union with the Lord you yourselves are proof of the fact that I am an apostle.

When people criticize me, this is how I defend myself: Don't I have the right to be given food and drink for my work?

Don't I have the right to follow the example of the other apostles and the Lord's brothers and Peter, by taking a Christian wife with me on my trips?

Or are Barnabas and I the only ones who have to work for our living? What soldiers ever have to pay their own expenses in the army?

What farmers do not eat the grapes from their own vineyard? What shepherds do not use the milk from their own sheep?

I don't have to limit myself to these everyday examples, because the Law says the same thing. We read in the Law of Moses,

“Do not muzzle an ox when you are using it to thresh grain.” Now, is God concerned about oxen? Didn't he really mean us when he said that? Of course that was written for us.

Anyone who plows and anyone who reaps should do their work in the hope of getting a share of the crop. We have sown spiritual seed among you.

Is it too much if we reap material benefits from you? If others have the right to expect this from you, don't we have an even greater right?

But we haven't made use of this right. Instead, we have endured everything in order not to put any obstacle in the way of the Good News about Christ.

Surely you know that the men who work in the Temple get their food from the Temple and that those who offer the sacrifices on the altar get a share of the sacrifices. In the same way, the Lord has ordered that those who preach the gospel should get their living from it. But I haven't made use of any of these rights, nor am I writing this now in order to claim such rights for myself.

I would rather die first! Nobody is going to turn my rightful boast into empty words! I have no right to boast just because I preach the gospel.

After all, I am under orders to do so. And how terrible it would be for me if I did not preach the gospel!

If I did my work as a matter of free choice, then I could expect to be paid; but I do it as a matter of duty, because God has entrusted me with this task. What pay do I get, then?

It is the privilege of preaching the Good News without charging for it, without claiming my rights in my work for the gospel.

Bros, note the bolded pls. All the Apostles took their Just privileges, only Paul and Barnabas gave up theirs, by choice, not because they are not entitled to it.

It's just like marrying too, if anyone feels he wants to serve God wholely without any distractions that comes with the family, then fine. Paul also chose it. But pls, don't make it a rule that all those who preach the Gospel shd do so and go home hungry.

Besides, Paul received help from Churches. He did. He commended the Philippians church for their continues giving to him.

OkaiCorne:
3) If we all follow Christ, should we be paying one another "tithes"? What makes these Pastors the legal recipient of these tithes? Are they the only ones serving Jesus? or are the rest of the Parishioners serving the Devil?

You didn't sound like a seasoned believer here. Show me any man who has no mentor in Christ and i will show you a man who claims to be a Christian, but is fake.
Every minister pays Tithe except it's a fake man of God.

You pay your Tithe in your local Church. If you give to me, it's help, i will eat it, but the blessing of tithing won't come to you.

Following Christ must be done acceptably. He has specified how to follow Him, how to do things. If you do things your way, then He is not your Master. It never says we shd give our Tithes to fellow Christians, it says take it to the Priest in charge of God's house so that they may be meat in His house.

OkaiCorne:
4) After all of these, let's even assume that the Pastors are the legal recipients, are they sharing these proceeds to everyone in the church in such a way that no one lacks...as shown by the church model in the Acts of the Apostles?

Wow, you've not been reading at all. How can Pastors be the legal recipients of our Tithes? Our Tithes and other Sacrifices are to Christ our eternal high priest who is being represented here by men he had chosen.

Did the Bible say Tithe should be collected and shared amongst the Church members? hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

If that's the case where will the fund fory administration of the Church come from? How the church be built? or pay their rents? Everything in Church cost money nah.

How about outreaches? Missions? Orphans, widows and the needy in the Church?

What about over heads?

Hmmmm. What do you people even consider the Church to be?

Are you a sincere committed member of a church which doesn't Pay Tithe? Will you be sincere enough to tell us how the Church is funded? There are a lot of other taxes that are not called Tithe. They removed the tag 'Tithe' and collect so much more from the people. lolzzzzzz. abegi

analize701:
The Holy Spirit did some explanations there which should tell us if mentioning Tithing here was to just Emphasize the superiority of the Priesthood according to the Order of Melchizedek
.......
Again, it is for the New Covenant practitioners to know that the ordinance of Tithing Precedes and Transcends the Law.

It is to point us to the New High who will resumes the duties of Melchizedek, and because this High Priest lives forever, the ordinance of Tithe paying is to be done until the High Priest returns.


The direct Beneficiaries of this letter is anyone who believes in the finished work of Christ on the Cross as a Ransome and Justification for their Sins.


The Priesthood according to the Order of Melchizedek/Jesus is the living Priesthood. Christ will do what Melchizedek did, Take Tithe.
........
My brother if the matter is all about the superiority of the eternal Priesthood of Melchizedek, Paul wouldn't have gone to the length of talking about the Living taking Tithe.
....
When i pay my Tithe, the hand receiving it from me is not my Pastor, its Jesus',

Like someone mentioned, it is tiring to discuss with you guys. Many things you say as just conjecture. Maybe some "spirit" is revealing these things to you that others can't see.

Abraham was NOT a priest when he paid tithe to Melchizedek.

The Christian today is a royal priest in the same order of Melchizedek.

The Christian today is STANDING on the side Melchizedek was in relation to Abraham. He is not standing on Abraham's position.

Yet you're INSISTING that the same conditions apply.

The book of Hebrews NEVER said Jesus' priesthood was a RETURN to that of Melchizedek; it says he is the "guarantor of a better covenant."

The book of Hebrews NEVER said the oath that established Jesus's superior priesthood was made at the time of Melchizedek; it says "but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever."

The establishment of his priesthood came after the Law. Did you see that?

Jesus's priesthood is like that of Melchizedek BUT it is not a continuation of Melchizedek's priesthood. Jesus's priesthood in which the Christian is a part is SUPERIOR to that of Melchizedek.

Jesus Christ DID NOT come to resume the priesthood of Melchizedek; where did you see that?

The incident of Abraham tithe to Melchizedek was DESCRIPTIVE and not PRESCRIPTIVE! !!!!!!

NO WHERE does the Bible say that tithing transcends the Law. NO WHERE!!!

NO WHERE does the Bible COMMAND the Christian to tithe. That is why you guys MUST keep going back to the OLD to seek justification for your LEGALISM. The very same thing the book of Hebrews is warning against!

NO WHERE does the Bible say that the Christian who belongs to the BODY OF CHRIST needs to tithe for whatever reason and in whatever form.

When the Christian does not understand that his position IN CHRIST is unique he ends up reducing himself to practices like TITHING that do not befit his status as a ROYALTY and a PRIEST.

That is why Paul warned:
"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery." Galatians 5: 1.

analize701:
God wanted to rule the earth from Heaven, yet He put Adam on earth to take charge why?

God wanted to be the King of Israel and rule them from heaven, why did he choose Samuel to stand in for Him?

Jesus was present and donations and all manner of giving which the Bible didn't specify were done, Why did he put Judah Iscariot as the treasurer or the keeper of the purse? Why didn't he keep the save himself?

Lolzzz, why did Jesus give his Holy Spirit to men and empowered them commanding that they should OCCUPY until his returns?
What kind of a question is this?


Pls, I will like you to calm down a bit, you are prancing and as a result, we may just be wasting time here instead of getting admonished.

Apostle Paul becoming a Tenth maker was because
1. He chose to do it. And, that's because, he needed to enter the people doing what the people did.

Secondly, Paul, decided not to use his privileges, not because he was not entitled to them.

Good News Translation 1 Corinthians 9:1-18

Am I not a free man?

Am I not an apostle? Haven't I seen Jesus our Lord? And aren't you the result of my work for the Lord?

Even if others do not accept me as an apostle, surely you do! Because of your life in union with the Lord you yourselves are proof of the fact that I am an apostle.

When people criticize me, this is how I defend myself: Don't I have the right to be given food and drink for my work?

Don't I have the right to follow the example of the other apostles and the Lord's brothers and Peter, by taking a Christian wife with me on my trips?

Or are Barnabas and I the only ones who have to work for our living? What soldiers ever have to pay their own expenses in the army?

What farmers do not eat the grapes from their own vineyard? What shepherds do not use the milk from their own sheep?

I don't have to limit myself to these everyday examples, because the Law says the same thing. We read in the Law of Moses,

“Do not muzzle an ox when you are using it to thresh grain.” Now, is God concerned about oxen? Didn't he really mean us when he said that? Of course that was written for us.

Anyone who plows and anyone who reaps should do their work in the hope of getting a share of the crop. We have sown spiritual seed among you.

Is it too much if we reap material benefits from you? If others have the right to expect this from you, don't we have an even greater right?

But we haven't made use of this right. Instead, we have endured everything in order not to put any obstacle in the way of the Good News about Christ.

Surely you know that the men who work in the Temple get their food from the Temple and that those who offer the sacrifices on the altar get a share of the sacrifices. In the same way, the Lord has ordered that those who preach the gospel should get their living from it. But I haven't made use of any of these rights, nor am I writing this now in order to claim such rights for myself.

I would rather die first! Nobody is going to turn my rightful boast into empty words! I have no right to boast just because I preach the gospel.

After all, I am under orders to do so. And how terrible it would be for me if I did not preach the gospel!

If I did my work as a matter of free choice, then I could expect to be paid; but I do it as a matter of duty, because God has entrusted me with this task. What pay do I get, then?

It is the privilege of preaching the Good News without charging for it, without claiming my rights in my work for the gospel.

Bros, note the bolded pls. All the Apostles took their Just privileges, only Paul and Barnabas gave up theirs, by choice, not because they are not entitled to it.

It's just like marrying too, if anyone feels he wants to serve God wholely without any distractions that comes with the family, then fine. Paul also chose it. But pls, don't make it a rule that all those who preach the Gospel shd do so and go home hungry.

Besides, Paul received help from Churches. He did. He commended the Philippians church for their continues giving to him.



You didn't sound like a seasoned believer here. Show me any man who has no mentor in Christ and i will show you a man who claims to be a Christian, but is fake.
Every minister pays Tithe except it's a fake man of God.

You pay your Tithe in your local Church. If you give to me, it's help, i will eat it, but the blessing of tithing won't come to you.

Following Christ must be done acceptably. He has specified how to follow Him, how to do things. If you do things your way, then He is not your Master. It never says we shd give our Tithes to fellow Christians, it says take it to the Priest in charge of God's house so that they may be meat in His house.


Wow, you've not been reading at all. How can Pastors be the legal recipients of our Tithes? Our Tithes and other Sacrifices are to Christ our eternal high priest who is being represented here by men he had chosen.

Did the Bible say Tithe should be collected and shared amongst the Church members? hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

If that's the case where will the fund fory administration of the Church come from? How the church be built? or pay their rents? Everything in Church cost money nah.

How about outreaches? Missions? Orphans, widows and the needy in the Church?

What about over heads?

Hmmmm. What do you people even consider the Church to be?

Are you a sincere committed member of a church which doesn't Pay Tithe? Will you be sincere enough to tell us how the Church is funded? There are a lot of other taxes that are not called Tithe. They removed the tag 'Tithe' and collect so much more from the people. lolzzzzzz. abegi

1) Christ is the legal recipient...but of course He won't come down from heaven to collect money...but my own is how Pastors are now the collectors on behalf of Christ? As if all Christians are not called to follow Christ.

2) If I tell you the Holy Spirit is my mentor, is there any Pastor under heaven that can mentor me more than the Holy Spirit? Does the Pastor know better than the Holy Spirit? I also have my Bible and online resources I study and research devoutly (the Holy Spirit would still point out the errors in these research materials so I don't swallow everything hook, line and sinker). So a physical mentor in my opinion is not relevant like it was in the ancient times. By the way, Enoch, Abraham, Job and Jesus says hi , they didn't have any "father-in-the Lord" mentors...they had a very close walk with God and that was it!
My dear, you have to pour new wine in a new wine skin so the bag doesn't burst.

3) Church overheads financed by tithes takes more priority than helping a widow or orphan which automatically translates to lending to God??
Abeg no make me laugh

4) There's something called freewill offering which you give out of a cheerful heart and as led by the Holy Spirit.This can be used to meet the needs of the ministry. This tithe scam used to extort money from people has to stop jare.

You think you are tithing because it's 10% of your income abi?...my dear, you are just giving...but you were tricked into this one. If you do tithing as expressly laid out in the Torah (Law), you won't be able to sustain it sef..

Meanwhile...you haven't answered my first set of questions. [color=#990000]I sense your fear is that the Church would shut down if people stop paying tithes and offerings...and I want to tell you that mindset is a very wrong one...[/color]

ISN'T IT FUNNY HOW CHRISTIANS CLAIM JESUS HAS FULFILLED THE LAW...EXCEPT FOR THE ONE THAT HAS TO DO WITH TITHING BECAUSE MONEY IS INVOLVED

Mammon must be dethroned so that Christ can take His rightful place in the Hearts of all believers.

I'm still awaiting your answers to my questions...

bloodofthelamb:
YOU DON'T GET IT. THERE IS NO LAW BINDING A SPIRIT FILLED BELIEVER... WE DON'T NEED A LAW TO MAKE US LIVE AND ACT RIGHT.

A SPIRIT FILLED BELIEVER NATURAL AND EFFORTLESSLY DO WHAT IS RIGHT, BECAUSE IT IS HIS/HER NATURE...

Can you honestly answer me this question : is incest a sin ? If it is what make it so?