UnchangeableGod:
Your statement is against the letter and spirit of the Scriptures. It is suggestive that God permits believers to lie other than bear false witness against neighbours. What then was the sin of Ananias snd Sapphira? Your statement is a clear fallacy and blasphemy. You can only preach that to your likes.

19 And Micaiah said, “Therefore hear the word of the Lord: fI saw the Lord sitting on his throne, gand all the host of heaven standing beside him on his right hand and on his left; 20 and the Lord said, ‘Who will entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’ And one said one thing, and another said another. 21 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, saying, ‘I will entice him.’ 22 And the Lord said to him, ‘By what means?’ And he said, ‘I will go out, and will be ha lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And he said, ‘You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.’ 23 Now therefore behold, the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the Lord has declared disaster for you.” 1 Kings 22:19-23

hopefulLandlord:


I think this is a fair point. However I must point out that even if I agree that what I hypothetically did is bearing false witness against myself, it still doesn't go against the 10 commandments as I didn't bear false witness against "My Neighbour" which exactly proves my point that not all lies are false witness against your neighbour. Saying all lies are false witness against one's neighbour is akin to saying all sports are Hockey and I like your illustration with the Venn diagram

Who said all liars are not false witnesses?

Gggg102:



you are getting his point backwards.


lemme put it this way

hockey is a type of sport = false witness is a type of lie


government banned hockey = ten commandments banned false witness

banning hockey does not mean banning all sports since hockey is not all sports = banning false witness does not mean banning all lies since false witness is not all lies.


notice the equivalence are
hockey = false witness
sport = lies

Bearing false witness is synonymous to lying.

OLAADEGBU:


To corroborate John 8:44 that my brother, Johnw74, quoted when Jesus said that satan is the father of lies, let me give you the 3 bible verses you requested for:

1. Genesis 3:1-5 Where satan lied to our first parents, Adam and Eve, that they would become "as gods" if they believed his lies rather than the Word of God, which is the lie of humanism which makes men and women as the apex of the evolutionary process and thereby making themselves the true gods of the world. This we can see happening before us with these folks identifying themselves as atheists, humanists, evolutionists and the like.

2. Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceives the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." This father of lies has been deceiving and drawing folks away from the God of creation.

3. He is the god of this world that has been binding the minds of unbelievers (2 Corinthians 4:4). If not these folks would have seen their impending doom and thereby save themselves from pain by obeying the command to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus to be saved.

4. Satan is the author of the evolution lie, that is seeking to control the world without its Creator.

Last but not the least, is that satan has deceived himself first by convincing himself that both he and God had evolved out of the primeval chaos as being recycled by many ancient mythical theories as being believed today.

So, Jesus was telling the truth when He said that satan is the father of lies from the beginning.

I can only see one verse here in Genesis where Satan seemed to have personal lied. Is that the only verse in the bible where Satan told a lie? is that enough to call him father of lies?

DeSepiero:


I can only see one verse here in Genesis where Satan seemed to have personal lied. Is that the only verse in the bible where Satan told a lie? is that enough to call him father of lies?

It is not necessary to give you more verses since you don't have the capacity to process them. Go and ruminate on that one verse you said you can see. It is sufficient to call him the father of lies.

OLAADEGBU:


It is not necessary to give you more verses since you don't have the capacity to process them. Go and ruminate on that one verse you said you can see. It is sufficient to call him the father of lies.

You think Satan lied because he told eve she'll be like god?

God said in Genesis 2 vs 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

Satan said in Genesis 3 vs 4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Genesis 3 vs 22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:


Point the lies!!

DeSepiero:


You think Satan lied because he told eve she'll be like god?

God said in Genesis 2 vs 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

Satan said in Genesis 3 vs 4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Genesis 3 vs 22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:


Point the lies!!

1. the day you eat thereof you will certainly die.

They did not die.

2. You will not certainly die.
The 'not' came before the certainly, not the 'die'. So what the serpent said is that it was NOT CERTAIN that they would die. in other words, it was not an statistical certainty. They may yet die but it is not certain.

3. Serpent say once the fruit of the tree is eaten they will become like gods as in they will be able to know good and evil.

This was affirmed by the Elohim when they said that Man as become like them in that they now know good and evil.


4. We discover that the tree of good and evil had nothing to do with life or death prospects but rather it was the tree of life that determined whether or not they would live forever. The serpent said nothing to Adam and eve about the tree of life, neither did elohim. However everything the serpent said about the tree of good and evil was true while what Elohim said about it was false.

DeSepiero:


You think Satan lied because he told eve she'll be like god?

God said in Genesis 2 vs 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

Satan said in Genesis 3 vs 4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Genesis 3 vs 22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:


Point the lies!!

So you now believe that you are wise as God, no?

PastorAIO:


1. the day you eat thereof you will certainly die.

They did not die.

2. You will not certainly die.
The 'not' came before the certainly, not the 'die'. So what the serpent said is that it was NOT CERTAIN that they would die. in other words, it was not an statistical certainty. They may yet die but it is not certain.

3. Serpent say once the fruit of the tree is eaten they will become like gods as in they will be able to know good and evil.

This was affirmed by the Elohim when they said that Man as become like them in that they now know good and evil.


4. We discover that the tree of good and evil had nothing to do with life or death prospects but rather it was the tree of life that determined whether or not they would live forever. The serpent said nothing to Adam and eve about the tree of life, neither did elohim. However everything the serpent said about the tree of good and evil was true while what Elohim said about it was false.

You've just exposed yourself to be a satanist.

PastorAIO:


1. the day you eat thereof you will certainly die.

They did not die.

2. You will not certainly die.
The 'not' came before the certainly, not the 'die'. So what the serpent said is that it was NOT CERTAIN that they would die. in other words, it was not an statistical certainty. They may yet die but it is not certain.

3. Serpent say once the fruit of the tree is eaten they will become like gods as in they will be able to know good and evil.

This was affirmed by the Elohim when they said that Man as become like them in that they now know good and evil.


4. We discover that the tree of good and evil had nothing to do with life or death prospects but rather it was the tree of life that determined whether or not they would live forever. The serpent said nothing to Adam and eve about the tree of life, neither did elohim. However everything the serpent said about the tree of good and evil was true while what Elohim said about it was false.

In which case, the father and origin of Lies wasn't Satan but the one that you OLAADEGBU worship as God.


cc OLAADEGBU

OLAADEGBU:

So you now believe that you are wise as God, no?

Do you believe Genesis 3: 22 ?

OLAADEGBU:


You've just exposed yourself to be a satanist.

Nothing is exposed but the basic english comprehension of the passages quoted.

OLAADEGBU:

Bearing false witness is synonymous to lying.

hockey is synonymous with sport

PastorAIO:


1. the day you eat thereof you will certainly die.

They did not die.

2. You will not certainly die.
The 'not' came before the certainly, not the 'die'. So what the serpent said is that it was NOT CERTAIN that they would die. in other words, it was not an statistical certainty. They may yet die but it is not certain.

3. Serpent say once the fruit of the tree is eaten they will become like gods as in they will be able to know good and evil.

This was affirmed by the Elohim when they said that Man as become like them in that they now know good and evil.


4. We discover that the tree of good and evil had nothing to do with life or death prospects but rather it was the tree of life that determined whether or not they would live forever. The serpent said nothing to Adam and eve about the tree of life, neither did elohim. However everything the serpent said about the tree of good and evil was true while what Elohim said about it was false.

Lmao! so you're saying Olaadegbu is serving the father of lies?

What does MuttleyLaff, Emmanystone and co have to say about this? I'm sure there's some hermeneutics that would be pulled

hopefulLandlord:
Lmao! so you're saying Olaadegbu is serving the father of lies?

What does MuttleyLaff, Emmanystone and co have to say about this? I'm sure there's some hermeneutics that would be pulled

butterflyl1on, Emmanystone and OkCornel, I know you all can see the gaping holes in there in PastorAIO's.
It's got more holes in it than a Swiss cheese.
SMH. I don't think it's worth commenting on
The church mouse will easily do an exegesis on this whilst doing press ups

MuttleyLaff:
butterflyl1on, Emmanystone and OkCornel, I know you all can see the gaping holes in there in PastorAIO's.
It's got more holes in it than a Swiss cheese.
SMH. I don't think it's worth commenting on
The church mouse will easily do an exegesis on this whilst doing press ups

Have been busy all day and right now I am so fagged out and droopy eyed but saw this from you and had to sneak a peek at that shadow Pastors comment and have been shaking my head and still am even as I type this.

In my usual manner I would have set him straight but since you said we shouldn't bother I will refrain.

Many are indeed roaming out there.

Ironically we (you and I) just dealt with this on another thread.

hopefulLandlord:



Lmao! so you're saying Olaadegbu is serving the father of lies?

What does MuttleyLaff, Emmanystone and co have to say about this? I'm sure there's some hermeneutics that would be pulled

old

The Serpent told Eve a half-truth...

The best form of deceit is inserting a few lies into a truthful and factual statement...

If you eat of the fruit you shall not die - this is a lie, because man was disconnected from the source of eternal life and became like non rechargeable batteries with a temporary shelf life...the inevitable result was death (Spiritual first then Physical later)

If you eat of this fruit, you shall be like God - this is true, as it was confirmed in the subsequent chapter "man is now like us"

The serpent told a half truth...

OkCornel:
old

The Serpent told Eve a half-truth...

The best form of deceit is inserting a few lies into a truthful and factual statement...

If you eat of the fruit you shall not die - this is a lie, because man was disconnected from the source of eternal life and became like non rechargeable batteries with a temporary shelf life...the inevitable result was death (Spiritual first then Physical later)

If you eat of this fruit, you shall be like God - this is true, as it was confirmed in the subsequent chapter "man is now like us"

The serpent told a half truth...

You have time to explain this to those mockers of their own ignorance.

MuttleyLaff:
butterflyl1on, Emmanystone and OkCornel, I know you all can see the gaping holes in there in PastorAIO's.
It's got more holes in it than a Swiss cheese.
SMH. I don't think it's worth commenting on
The church mouse will easily do an exegesis on this whilst doing press ups

I just came online and saw this. In their minds they are having fun. Pity.

OkCornel:
old

The Serpent told Eve a half-truth...

The best form of deceit is inserting a few lies into a truthful and factual statement...

If you eat of the fruit you shall not die - this is a lie, because man was disconnected from the source of eternal life and became like non rechargeable batteries with a temporary shelf life...the inevitable result was death (Spiritual first then Physical later)

If you eat of this fruit, you shall be like God - this is true, as it was confirmed in the subsequent chapter "man is now like us"

The serpent told a half truth...

CC: PastorAIO

OkCornel:
old
The Serpent told Eve a half-truth...

The best form of deceit is inserting a few lies into a truthful and factual statement...

If you eat of the fruit you shall not die - this is a lie, because man was disconnected from the source of eternal life and became like non rechargeable batteries with a temporary shelf life...the inevitable result was death (Spiritual first then Physical later)

If you eat of this fruit, you shall be like God - this is true, as it was confirmed in the subsequent chapter "man is now like us"

The serpent told a half truth...

hopefulLandlord:
CC: PastorAIO

hopefulLandlord why?
Why the cc:ing?
You're so just a rabble-rouser. Ah!

MuttleyLaff:

hopefulLandlord why? Why the cc:ing? You're so just a rabble-rouser. Ah!

TBF, its not my argument and I just called you guys' attention to it

PastorAIO:
However everything the serpent said about the tree of good and evil was true while what Elohim said about it was false.

DeSepiero:


In which case, the father and origin of Lies wasn't Satan but the one that you OLAADEGBU worship as God.


cc OLAADEGBU

talk bout being blinded by satan:

2Co_4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.





satan the father of lies never of himself speaks the truth, he sometimes mixes God's truth with his lies to have you believe him,
and just look at some of the atheist's posts here, to see how well that works

Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

PastorAIO:


1. the day you eat thereof you will certainly die.

They did not die.

2. You will not certainly die.
The 'not' came before the certainly, not the 'die'. So what the serpent said is that it was NOT CERTAIN that they would die. in other words, it was not an statistical certainty. They may yet die but it is not certain.

3. Serpent say once the fruit of the tree is eaten they will become like gods as in they will be able to know good and evil.

This was affirmed by the Elohim when they said that Man as become like them in that they now know good and evil.


4. We discover that the tree of good and evil had nothing to do with life or death prospects but rather it was the tree of life that determined whether or not they would live forever. The serpent said nothing to Adam and eve about the tree of life, neither did elohim. However everything the serpent said about the tree of good and evil was true while what Elohim said about it was false.

Per your 2nd point, next time please tell us the Bible version you have been reading so you don't just settle on only that and get confused and arrive at a wrong conclusion...

This is what 1599 Geneva Bible (older than KJV I think) has to say;

Genesis 3 v 4-5
4 Then the serpent said to the woman, Ye shall not die at all, ------> (Lie)

5 But God doth know that when ye shall eat thereof, your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil -------> (Truth)



Verse 4 and 5 gives you the half truth...which the Serpent used to deceive Eve...

The strategy has not changed, he (the great deceiver) will keep on sowing tares (lies) among the wheat (truth) to deceive many with false doctrines of half-truth....

DeSepiero:


You think Satan lied because he told eve she'll be like god?

God said in Genesis 2 vs 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

Satan said in Genesis 3 vs 4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Genesis 3 vs 22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:


Point the lies!!

Satan was truly a liar in that scenario because God wasn't talking about total physical death.
Death in the bible are clearly of multiple types. The physical death and the spiritual death were recorded.
In Genesis 20:1-18 when Abimelech experienced death in verse 7, he was still breathing. It was in verses 17,18 that he lived again. Here we see a graphic form of spiritual death.
Satan lied because adam and eve lost some God-like ability and gained others. In the end they became more unlike God than the became like God.

OkCornel:


Per your 2nd point, next time please tell us the Bible version you have been reading so you don't just settle on only that and get confused and arrive at a wrong conclusion...

This is what 1599 Geneva Bible (older than KJV I think) has to say;

Genesis 3 v 4-5
4 Then the serpent said to the woman, Ye shall not die at all, ------> (Lie)

5 But God doth know that when ye shall eat thereof, your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil -------> (Truth)



Verse 4 and 5 gives you the half truth...which the Serpent used to deceive Eve...

The strategy has not changed, he (the great deceiver) will keep on sowing tares (lies) among the wheat (truth) to deceive many with false doctrines of half-truth....

Okay, so there are different interpretations. I wonder, do you read Geneva Bible as a matter of course, or are you only referring to it now because it's interpretation seems to favour your bias?

Perhaps you could share with us your reasons for extolling the Geneva bible above the King Jame's Bible. Tell us why you believe the Geneva bible is right and King James' is wrong.

Desyner:
Satan was truly a liar in that scenario because God wasn't talking about total physical death.
Death in the bible are clearly of multiple types. The physical death and the spiritual death were recorded.
In Genesis 20:1-18 when Abimelech experienced death in verse 7, he was still breathing. It was in verses 17,18 that he lived again. Here we see a graphic form of spiritual death.
Satan lied because adam and eve lost some God-like ability and gained others. In the end they became more unlike God than the became like God.

What if Adam and Eve still had access to the Tree of Life and were eating of it, would they still die?

The limited lifespan, according to the bible, is due to NOT eating from the tree of life. The tree of good and evil had nothing to do with it.

OkCornel:
old

The Serpent told Eve a half-truth...

The best form of deceit is inserting a few lies into a truthful and factual statement...

If you eat of the fruit you shall not die - this is a lie, because man was disconnected from the source of eternal life and became like non rechargeable batteries with a temporary shelf life...the inevitable result was death (Spiritual first then Physical later)

If you eat of this fruit, you shall be like God - this is true, as it was confirmed in the subsequent chapter "man is now like us"

The serpent told a half truth...

This idea of being 'disconnected from the source of eternal life', Is this biblical?

The only disconnection from a source of eternal life mentioned in the bible is when they were barred from eating of the Tree of Life.

No access to this tree is what caused death as far as the bible is concerned.

PastorAIO:


Okay, so there are different interpretations. I wonder, do you read Geneva Bible as a matter of course, or are you only referring to it now because it's interpretation seems to favour your bias?

Perhaps you could share with us your reasons for extolling the Geneva bible above the King Jame's Bible. Tell us why you believe the Geneva bible is right and King James' is wrong.

The first English version of the Bible interpreted directly from Latin stands a better chance of being accurate compared to subsequent versions that draw the translations from an already translated Bible...

Better still, the original text of Genesis (whether in Hebrew or Aramaic) when translated DIRECTLY to English will give you a better context of the discussion between the serpent and Eve...

1) What version of bible did you use to arrive at your conclusion?

2) Between 1599 Geneva Bible and KJV, which one came first?

3) Were they both DIRECTLY translated from Latin and or Greek?

PastorAIO:



What if Adam and Eve still had access to the Tree of Life and were eating of it, would they still die?

The limited lifespan, according to the bible, is due to NOT eating from the tree of life. The tree of good and evil had nothing to do with it.

Read your bible again the answer to your question is in there;

Genesis 3 v 22

22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil. And now lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever,

PastorAIO:


This idea of being 'disconnected from the source of eternal life', Is this biblical?

The only disconnection from a source of eternal life mentioned in the bible is when they were barred from eating of the Tree of Life.

No access to this tree is what caused death as far as the bible is concerned.

Read your Bible and tell me when death came into the picture...

Genesis 2 v 17;

17 But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt die the death.

OkCornel:


The first English version of the Bible interpreted directly from Latin stands a better chance of being accurate compared to subsequent versions that draw the translations from an already translated Bible...

Better still, the original text of Genesis (whether in Hebrew or Aramaic) when translated DIRECTLY to English will give you a better context of the discussion between the serpent and Eve...

1) What version of bible did you use to arrive at your conclusion?

2) Between 1599 Geneva Bible and KJV, which one came first?

3) Were they both DIRECTLY translated from Latin and or Greek?

The first English version of the Bible interpreted directly from Latin stands a better chance of being accurate compared to subsequent versions that draw the translations from an already translated Bible...

I don't agree with you that the earlier a version was interpreted the better it's accuracy. Further I don't think later versions draw their translations from earlier Translations. They mostly all go straight back to the original manuscripts which in this case were drawn not from Latin or Greek but from ancient hebrew.

Better still, the original text of Genesis (whether in Hebrew or Aramaic) when translated DIRECTLY to English will give you a better context of the discussion between the serpent and Eve...

Now I'm totally in agreement with you. It's best to go to the original HEBREW text and see what that says.

Your translation goes:
4 Then the serpent said to the woman, Ye shall not die at all,

However in the original Hebrew text we find the words מ֖וֹת , mo-wt, which is hebrew for 'Surely'. There is no where in your text that you convey that word.

Here is the hebrew concordance from Biblehub.

way-yō-mer וַיֹּ֥אמֶר And said
5175 [e] han-nā-ḥāš הַנָּחָ֖שׁ the serpent
413 [e] ’el- אֶל־ unto
802 [e] hā-’iš-šāh; הָֽאִשָּׁ֑ה the women
3808 [e] lō- לֹֽא־ not
4191 [e] mō-wṯ מ֖וֹת surely
4191 [e] tə-mu-ṯūn. תְּמֻתֽוּן׃ you shall die