PastorAIO:

I know all your stupid tricks. You've been jumping from thread to thread trying to obfuscate and conflate issues.

I asked you who is the only of the lying spirit that yahoo sent.
It is a simple question. Is it Yahoo!'s spirit or not?

If it is Yahoo's then we know that Yahoo can lie and that'll make sense of zir claims of Genesis 3.



All this is still far from my main question about whether righteousness means that you cannot lie at all. I don't see the connection between holiness (set apart) and truthfulness.

PastorAIO:

I wasn't talking to you. The ones I've given you you are still struggling with and you're jumping on another one.

PastorAIO:


One day Sarcasm is going to jump up and slap you in the face so hard and you go believe say na breeze just dey blow.

PastorAIo:

No, that's the faith of Rahab that was commended.

johnw74:


truth is what it is
but you know nothing about that

PastorAIO:


This is why you will always fail whatever examination is put before you.

Simple question: If his name is not Yahoo, then what is his name?

ordinary simple question and you can't answer it. Shame.

johnw74:










continued lies, blasphemy, confusion and of course all round garbage

johnw74:


duh, you mock God and expect me to help you

Pro_26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

PastorAIO:


This your style of quoting my post and then writing something totally irrelevant underneath is very boring. If you know that you just want to spout random trash, please suit yourself but just leave my posts out of it.

PastorAIO:


I have no expectations but the most abject stupidity of you..

And there is absolutely no way one such as yourself can ever be of any help to anyone.


He who performs not practical work nor makes experiments will never attain to the least degree of mastery. - Jibberish

People's hearts are like wild animals. They attach their selves to those that love and train them.

PastorAIO:



Ho\oler



Thef,, mutilation, and underlining of books

Zl',rT '''■«'P""<'^y action and may
result m dismissal from the University

Ave Maria. Hail beautiful lamp of heaven, shining light of the world! Here art thou united with the moon, here is made the band of Mars and the conjunction of Mercury. From these three is born through through the magistery of the art, in the river bed, the strong giant whom a thousand times a thousand seek,



Introitus. Our Lord, fount of goodness, inspirer of the sacred art, from whom all good things come to your faithful, have mercy.

Christe. Christ, Holy one, blessed stone of the art of the science who for the salvation of the world hast inspired the light of the science, for the extirpation of the unbelievers, have mercy.

Kyrie. Our Lord, divine fire, help our hearts, that we may be able, to your praise, to expand the sacraments of the art, have mercy.

PastorAIO:

He who performs not practical work nor makes experiments will never attain to the least degree of mastery. - Jibberish

People's hearts are like wild animals. They attach their selves to those that love and train them.

LoJ:

These are 2 great quotes there, though you did not provide the authors. Do you have any training in the sufi system? Your knowledge is vast dear. Too bad the one with whom you dialog is too blind to see the treasure given to him up there.

PastorAIO:


The first one was actually written by 'Jibberish'. Lol.

There was a scholar called Jibir ibn Hayyan, whom many dolts found quite hard to understand (in keeping with the tenor of this thread).

They found his words so hard for their feeble minds to understand that his name ended up giving the english language the word Jibberish, for something that sounds like Jibir.

They second quote is attributed to him too, but I'm less sure that it is actually him.

PastorAIO:


Her faith led her to lie. Even though her lying wasn't approved yet the faith that led her to lie is commended, after all good tree can bear bad fruit.

Faith without works is dead.
Yet faith even with evil works is not only robustly alive but it is to be commended.

LoJ:

These are 2 great quotes there, though you did not provide the authors. Do you have any training in the sufi system? Your knowledge is vast dear. Too bad the one with whom you dialog is too blind to see the treasure given to him up there.

PastorAIO:
However everything the serpent said about the tree of good and evil was true while what Elohim said about it was false.

PastorAIO:


Now that's faith.
Knowing that you're dealing with an all powerful god that is so powerful that he doesn't need you to lie for him.

However if one feels the need to lie then maybe one doesn't really have faith in his absolute powers and ability.
That's poor faith.

UnchangeableGod:
Sir, the faith you quoted applies to a believer, a saint of God. The faith we are talking about here is that exercised by a sinner to get saved. It is not the faith of a child of God yet. As at this moment, Rehab had not been taught the ways of God part of which is that a child of God should not lie. If she were to lie later after she had known the God of Israel and His ways, then she would be under condemnation.

OLAADEGBU:


Half truth and lies.

OLAADEGBU:
Contradictions in the bible - A righteous lie?

Was Rahab praised for lying in James 2:25 when lying is forbidden in the Ten Commandments?

https://answersingenesis.org/contradictions-in-the-bible/a-righteous-lie/

PastorAIO:



This is the first I'm hearing of a distinction between the Faith of a believer and the faith of a sinner.

However I'm not sure that Lying is a sign of Unrighteousness, and furthermore there are plenty of examples in the bible of believers (righteous jews) lying for a 'greater good'.

Let's look at a few examples:

God rewarded the Shiphrah and Puah for lying to Pharaoh.

15Then the king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, one of whom was named Shiphrah and the other Puah, 16“When you serve as midwife to the Hebrew women and see them on the birthstool, if it is a son, you shall kill him, but if it is a daughter, she shall live.” 17But the midwives feared God and did not do as the king of Egypt commanded them, but let the male children live. 18So the king of Egypt called the midwives and said to them, “Why have you done this, and let the male children live?” 19The midwives said to Pharaoh, “Because the Hebrew women are not like the Egyptian women, for they are vigorous and give birth before the midwife comes to them.” 20So God dealt well with the midwives. And the people multiplied and grew very strong. 21And because the midwives feared God, he gave them families.
Exodus 1


But rather than go through all those examples, I've just got an idea. Just cut to the chase of the chase. The big boss himself.

8You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast, for my time has not yet fully come.” 9After saying this, he remained in Galilee.

10But after his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up, not publicly but in private.
John 7

If Jesus, in an effort to dodge people, is happy to use some subterfuge then who is Rahab to be accused for that.

PastorAIO:



19 And Micaiah said, “Therefore hear the word of the Lord: fI saw the Lord sitting on his throne, gand all the host of heaven standing beside him on his right hand and on his left; 20 and the Lord said, ‘Who will entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’ And one said one thing, and another said another. 21 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, saying, ‘I will entice him.’ 22 And the Lord said to him, ‘By what means?’ And he said, ‘I will go out, and will be ha lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And he said, ‘You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.’ 23 Now therefore behold, the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the Lord has declared disaster for you.” 1 Kings 22:19-23

UnchangeableGod:
Lying is a sin and "all liars (who do not repent) will spend endless eternity in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone" (Revelation 21:. One of the evidences of salvation from sin and the new birth is the absence of the intention to lie (any longer). Now as regards the Hebrew midwives you refered to, the answer they gave to Pharaoh was the truth (though not the absolute truth). Believers are not under obligation to tell an enemy or anybody at that everything, yet whatever we say must be true. The point is, the midwives did not lie. In the case of our Perfect Example, our Lord Jesus Christ, you rightly pointed out that He used " some subterfuge in order to dodge some people". At the same time, you were trying to suggest He lied in the process. No He didn't. That was wisdom in demonstration. I am not among those condemning Rehab for lying. I have already made it clear that the lie she told was before her salvation. Let me make this point clear: that some so-called believers do lie does not justify lying. It is still a sin. Though a Christian can lie (mistakingly), a true Christian does not make a practice of (intentionally) lying. If he does, he must repent immediately and do restitution or is under condemnation. Sorry to use myself as an example. There was a day I told a lie to my boss under pressure. I did not have rest of mind until I went back to her and cleared myself not minding the consequences. That is Christianity. Anything short of this is worthless and empty profession of faith. Thank you.

the midwives did not lie.

lie2
lʌɪ/
noun
noun: lie; plural noun: lies

1.
an intentionally false statement.
"they hint rather than tell outright lies"
synonyms: untruth, falsehood, fib, fabrication, deception, made-up story, trumped-up story, invention, piece of fiction, fiction, falsification, falsity,

He used " some subterfuge in order to dodge some people"

deceit used in order to achieve one's goal.
"he had to use subterfuge and bluff on many occasions"
synonyms: trickery, intrigue, deviousness, evasion, deceit, deception, dishonesty, cheating, duplicity, guile,

UnchangeableGod:
In the context above, Ahab was already under condemnation. Having virtually crossed the line, jugmemt awaited him. The execution of the judgment automatically follows. Thus lying spirits were on duty to be used to achieve this aim. All the Lord did was to allow them do their evil job. The lying spirits did not proceed from Him as the passage suggests. Rather, God gave them licence to go ahead and deceive him since he hated the truth and correction. Even when Ahab was warned by the truth prophet Micaiah, the son of Imla who he hated so much for his bluntness, he was adamant (2nd Chronicles 18:6-22,33,34). He had crossed the line. Likewise, all sinners, reprobates and blasphemers. The spirit urging them to say blasphemous things against God is from the enemy of their soul. But since, that is what they choose, God allows the spirit of deception to overtake and damn them (Romans 1:28,29). I pray it will not be too late for you I J N. The point is, lying is of the devil, not of God (John 8:44.). Thank you.

PastorAIO:


I accept what you have said here. However my point is that He is capable of using lies and deceit to achieve his purpose, regardless of whether the victim deserved it or not.

If lying is of the devil then things start to sound ominous about your religion.

PastorAIO:


I would like to commend you first and foremost for successfully having an exchange of dialogue without resorting to insults or avoiding the points I'm making.



I beg to differ with you on this. The passage of the bible says that they ... [color=#770077]did not do as the king of Egypt commanded them, but let the male children live[/color]
To "let the male children live" they had to have been present at the birth. So the reason the male children lived was because they let them live, and not because they didn't arrive at the birth in time. They lied.










I used subterfuge in the sense of using deceit.

Jesus made a statement: I am not going up to this feast

The he acted: then he also went up, not publicly but in private

When someone tells you that 'I'm not going' and then they go haven't they lied to you. A lie is an Intentionally False statement is it not, according to the online dictionary?

UnchangeableGod:
God is sovereign. As such, He uses all things good and evil to achieve His divine purpose. That does not mean He supports the evil neither does that exonerate the evil doer except he/she repents. Think about this: the betrayal and crucifixion of Christ was necessary for the salvation of humanity. Yet, the perpetrators were under condemnation except they repented. Yes, lying is the devil because it is a sin. Thank you.

PastorAIO:


Let's leave aside the issue of whether your God is sovereign as that will derail the subject. I'm glad that you agree that he does use evil to his purposes. I'm not talking about supporting lies, I'm talking about the use of lies. I'm glad that you've admitted that he is capable of using lies.

The other part about whether he exonerates the liar (not evil doer, abeg) can be summed up as in exodus 1:

20 So God dealt well with the midwives. And the people multiplied and grew very strong.

God dealt well with them as a consequence of their lies.

UnchangeableGod:
I am a Christian. So I don't insult people for their opinions, momatter how ill-intentioned or ridiculous. I don't fight for God. I just try to appeal to peoples' consciences and out of love inform them of the consequences of their choices. Again, those midwives simply did not tell the whole story. They did not lie in my opinion. Even they did, lying is still sinful and condemnable. Jesus Christ on His part meant that He was not going yet to the feast, not that He would not go at all. Jesus my Saviour, Who saved me from all my sins including the sin of lying, could not have lied. The uniform testimony of the Scriptures is that He was sinless all thorough (1st Peter 2:21-25). There are things you may not understand as human. But it is blasphemy to suggest He lied. Thank you.

UnchangeableGod:
I'm sorry to say, it appears you just want to be, sorry to say, mischievous. God dealt well with the midwives for not carrying out an evil decree against His people even at the risk of their lives, families and professions. That is faith. But you would rather see it that it was because of their 'lies'. Well, you are a free moral agent. Thank you.

PastorAIO:






Now that's faith.
Knowing that you're dealing with an all powerful god that is so powerful that he doesn't need you to lie for him.

Is this the lie part, or the half truth part?

However if one feels the need to lie then maybe one doesn't really have faith in his absolute powers and ability.
That's poor faith.
Or is this the part that you consider to be a lie? Please inform us.

PastorAIO:


In other words we can perhaps take the position that the ten commandments don't forbid lying, but forbid bearing False witness. i.e lies that can harm another person. It applies to the making of oaths and judicial cases.

It's the intention to harm....

OLAADEGBU:


Your context is as fake as it comes.

OLAADEGBU:


I wonder what kind of lie does not harm your neighbour?