₦airaland Forum

Hey man, I am not interested in the fore argument about tithe. But I am a good scientist as well as a reasonable Christian. Can we debate the flood without cursing or trying to sound demeaning. Let us state scientific facts and points to see if it was possible that there was a flood. Just to learn. Till today I never questioned the flood but you present a reasonable argument. Cheers man


To believe this earth was flooded shows how little you know about the world. Did his magic boat get to Africa to confirm the flood was flood-wide.. Or was it just his local environment that was inundated by God's anger?


Oh well.. Who am I to ask you to reason.. The Bible has replaced your brain. That's why you are throwin verses at an unbeliever.. Like they mean something...[/quote]

he deserves to be encouraged don't know abt award

alBHAGDADI:
The Holy Lamb sacrificed himself but not for himself, he did it for others. Jesus as a tithe receiver had no need to pay tithe because it would be useless giving himself money which is already his.

Do you get it now?

What are you saying? He sacrificed himself to himself because of others. So why didnt he pay tithe to himself because of others too. That way his disciples and early christians and present-day christian will know without doubt that he was for it? I mean if it was that important, you would think an omnipotent god will know to make sure it is recorded and emphasized and the early christians will emphasize it too.

stanliwise:
your anwser is amazing but what do you say in cases where pastors quote malachi as a punishment for people who don't pay tithe, telling them that they are stealing from God??

Read the entire Malachai chapter 3, you will see that the passage was talking to Levites. They were the ones the curses are meant for. Don't let false pastors fool you. The passage is actually for them because they are the modern day Levites who are robbing God of the tithes by not using it for the exact thing it is meant for.

alBHAGDADI:
Read the entire Malachai chapter 3, you will see that the passage was talking to Levites. They were the ones the curses are meant for. Don't let false pastors fool you. The passage is actually for them because they are the modern day Levites who are robbing God of the tithes by not using it for the exact thing it is meant for.

let me go and jack it. Thanks

alBHAGDADI:
Where is it written that it is not for Christians?

because those who were first called Christians didn't practice it. Tithing was a religious practice under the law. Now we are no more under the law but under grace. Moreso, if you pay tithe so as to please God, will you also make sacrifices of livestock to please him as it was the old practices?

NPComplete:
What are you saying? He sacrificed himself to himself because of others. So why didnt he pay tithe to himself because of others too. That way his disciples and early christians and present-day christian will know without doubt that he was for it? I mean if it was that important, you would think an omnipotent god will know to make sure it is recorded and emphasized and the early christians will emphasize it too.

I didn't say he sacrificed himself to himself.

Go and read my post against.

You expect Jesus to do everything in order for us to know what and what he supports. Why not stop using a spoon since the bible never recorded that he used a spoon. The fact that the Bible didn't record he did or didn't do something is a clear indication that we can chose to do or not do those things.

Meekha:
For those who said that Christ never endorsed tithing well i don't know if you guys read the Bible but i have an answer for you guys.. The verse below shows the stance of Christ

New Living Translation Matthew 23:23
"What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law--justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.


My emphasis is on the last sentence...From the very words of Christ, whoever should tithe MUST not ignore Justice, mercy and faith as they are more important than tithing..But this does not negate the blessedness of tithing seeing that Christ Himself endorsed it in the above verse. Now this is the words of Jesus Himself.. and not that of any apostle or prophet..
So Freez's disciples, have you not come across any verse like this

Over to you!

Did Christ endorse tithes for the Jews or Gentiles?

If you claim that He indeed endorsed tithes for Jews and Gentiles, how come you people don't observe the other Jewish laws? How come it is only tithes you are observing? Hope you know that you can't observe just one out of the laws?

Emmariks:
because those who were first called Christians didn't practice it. Tithing was a religious practice under the law. Now we are no more under the law but under grace. Moreso, if you pay tithe so as to please God, will you also make sacrifices of livestock to please him as it was the old practices?

Where is it written that the first Christians didn't practice it? Oh, because it is not written now means they didn't or were against it? Mind you, tithing predates the law. Abraham tithed before Moses came with the law. Guess who Abraham gave his tithe to? Jesus who was Melchizedeck. So, we as children of Abraham can follow our father's footsteps.

INDUSTRIALFAN:
nice points you raised and I must commend you for taking the time out to do so however, I also have a reservation and a question. I'll start with the question. You said God gets angry and Mets out his justice on those who speak against his anointed. How do we know those that are anointed by God? How do we know they are actually here to serve his purpose? Remember the story of the wolves in sheep clothing? Remember the false prophets Jesus also warned about? It is not difficult to see that most supposed men of God are here to only serve their purpose which is to end in a fat bank account(sorry to say) Jesus also warned us to "Beware of false prophets that come in my name". Is that not an admonition to be on the look out for ourselves and not fall victim to their plot? If you as a man can see and you see a blind man walking into a busy road with a car speeding towards him with every likely hood that the blind man will get crushed, do you let him continue or do you raise alarm and caution him and eventually lead him to cross safely?

Now to my observation, it is not a good Enough reason to judge freeze by his short temper and quick tongue. We know from the Bible that Moses was quick to anger and acted accordingly and he was the one God decided to use for his mission of freeing his people from pharaoh. We also know that King Solomon as wise as he was lived a wreckless lifestyle but it didn't change the fact that God was with him. How about David? David stole a man's wife and sent her husband to die because he wanted the woman all to himself. Do not use Freeze's excesses to judge his mission.

Nobody can deceive anybody except you want to be deceived the first question is why do you go to church if the search for an undiluted word is what you want when you listen to message you will be convinced inside you when you listen to such undiluted word filled with truth i think we also forget that pastors are so human and are equally faced with more temptations and could also fall in weak times we all have our weak times inrespective of strong you might be so until we also start thinking pastors are human and could also loose it and stop the condmnation we will keep weakning the christain community

alBHAGDADI:
Read the entire Malachai chapter 3, you will see that the passage was talking to Levites. They were the ones the curses are meant for. Don't let false pastors fool you. The passage is actually for them because they are the modern day Levites who are robbing God of the tithes by not using it for the exact thing it is meant for.

Even that Malachi 3 also said that an offering will be made to God in righteousness in due time. that verse was referring to Jesus Christ. so if Jesus is our righteousness why then do we still need to pay tithe in other to be right in the sight of God?

BluntBoy:
Did Christ endorse tithes for the Jews or Gentiles?

If you claim that He indeed endorsed tithes for Jews and Gentiles, how come you people don't observe the other Jewish laws? How come it is only tithes you are observing? Hope you know that you can't observe just one out of the laws?

Tithing came before the law. Abraham did tithing before the law.

alBHAGDADI:
I didn't say he sacrificed himself to himself.

Go and read my post against.

You expect Jesus to do everything in order for us to know what and what he supports. Why not stop using a spoon since the bible never recorded that he used a spoon. The fact that the Bible didn't record he did or didn't do something is a clear indication that we can chose to do or not do those things.

Lol. Stop dancing around. If there is a law that says I must use spoon to it and the law was made before the time of Jesus and when Jesus came, he neither uses the spoon nor emphasized it and as a matter of fact he spent most of the time antagonizing those that believe in the spoon law dearly, wouldn't it be safe to say he was not interested in the spoon law?

Food for thought

pressplay411:
Well said.
For a long time, I could not figure freeze out.
On the one side, He's speaking the gospel.
Tithe is not what pastors should focus on. There are more important doctrines in the gospel than tithing. When you save a person's soul, you don't have to keep preaching tithing for him to know it is for his own benefit.
Jesus Christ, Our LORD himself preached this.
Matthew 23:23-24
The Gospel is for Salvation of Souls and Godliness.
This establishes God's Kingdom on earth as it is in heaven.
Salvation of a human soul is what produces all round prosperity as one pursues righteousness and grows in faith.
Matthew 6:33, 3 John 2.

However, there's only one worthy to condemn and judge, and that is God himself because Let He Who Is Without Sin Be The First To Cast A Stone.
When we assume the office of criticizing, condemning and judging others, we have assumed the position and title of Satan himself, The Accuser of the Brethren.
Revelations 12:10
And judging/criticizing a pastor is such a grievious sin that God descends immediately to judge. Because he expects us to respect his anointed and prophets.
Numbers 12
My advice, leave them for God to judge. You could choose not to follow them or know how to pick their meat and throw away their bone.

How did I finally figure Freeze out?
"By their fruit you shall know them."
He curses at the slightest provocation. Hes always angry towards Christians, pastors and those who comment on his posts. He does not live in joy and peace.

A Christian should bless always and not curse. A Christian should express Love.
Yes, it seems difficult to walk in love and peace on social media but when you have the Spirit of Christ inside you, nothing is impossible.
Christianity is a higher calling, beyond human limitations.

Peace, Joy, Love, Grace and Wisdom to us all.

To say only God should condemn or judge is a distortion.

If a pastor is sexually abusing a personand that person is our son or daughter do we allow it to continuue do nothing and keep quiet and wait for God to judge.
If the victimis not our blood relative dowe then keep quiet ?

That is the hypocrisy that trails Christians and Muslims in Nigeria

We all saw Bishop Oyedepo abuse a little girl on TV and so called Christians till tomorrow are too cowardly to say or do anythiing waiting for God to judge.

If he can do that on TV imagine what he does in private.

No one is immune to criticism so let us stop this only God can judge nonsense.

What pastors do with money is of interest not just to Christians but to every taxpayer.

Pastors (and Churches) benefit from taxes but do not pay taxes themselves so indirectly they are robbing taxpayers who have a right to question the source of their DANGEROUS WEALTH and how it is deployed and screened from taxation.

Let us ignore Freeze ,he is a human being and fallible so whether you figure him out or not is irrelevant. He will die one day.

What about the message? That is the issuue not freeze.

Tha will not die.

The whole pentecostal church movement in Nigeria is a scam. We all know this and one day government will be bold enough to take the bull by the horns.
If people are foolish enough to pay tithe that is their right but Freeze and any other person is perfectly entitled to wage an intellectual or scriptural battle against the practice.

Those of us who are taxpayers who have no partisan interest simply want to see that any entity that claims to be a "charity" and thereby is immune to taxation whilst experincing phenomenal captal ains should have its financial affairs open to public scrutiny.

We were all in Nigeria when Mrs Ibru was stealing money and giving to her church .Has the church refunded the mone to the rightful owners?

Were they even pursued by EFCC in the same way that Obanikoro,Fani-Kayode, Fayose and others were pursued?


Instead of dealing with the scriptural basis for tithes . Folk like yoou revel in attacking Freeze.

Freeze is NOT the issue.

The issue is the doctrine of tithe.

Emmariks:
Even that Malachi 3 also said that an offering will be made to God in righteousness in due time. that verse was referring to Jesus Christ. so if Jesus is our righteousness why then do we still need to pay tithe in other to be right in the sight of God?

Is tithe paying an act to be right before God?

alBHAGDADI:
Where is it written that the first Christians didn't practice it? Oh, because it is not written now means they didn't or were against it? Mind you, tithing predates the law. Abraham tithed before Moses came with the law. Guess who Abraham gave his tithe to? Jesus who was Melchizedeck. So, we as children of Abraham can follow our father's footsteps.

In that case:

No one should be obligated to tithe since Abraham was not obligated by the Law of Moses to tithe. He tithed because he wanted to and not because there was a Law that mandated him to.

Your pastors should stop using Malachi to coerce people into tithing.

Your pastors should stop barring non-tithers from marrying in their churches.

Your pastors should stop threatening people with hell and poverty.

NPComplete:
Lol. Stop dancing around. If there is a law that says I must use spoon to it and the law was made before the time of Jesus and when Jesus came, he neither uses the spoon nor emphasized it and as a matter of fact he spent most of the time antagonizing those that believe in the spoon law dearly, wouldn't it be safe to say he was not interested in the spoon law?

I'm glad you didn't say he antagonized the spoon law. So how come you are talking as if he did?

Imagine making 10 million and giving 1 million to a certain individual who was just speaking in tongues on his pulpit, who doesn't pay tax. Someone who does Bible yahoo +

Ego mma eji tuo ngwa afia container eju.

BluntBoy:
In that case:

No one should be obligated to tithe since Abraham was not obligated by the Law of Moses to tithe. He tithed because he wanted to and not because there was a Law that mandated him to.

Your pastors should stop using Malachi to coerce people into tithing.

Your pastors should stop barring non-tithers from marrying in their churches.

Your pastors should stop threatening people with hell and poverty.

Somebody finally gets my point. Tithe is not compulsory, so you guys should leave those who believe it works for them alone. It's the pastors that made tithing a joke because of their dubious ways.

alBHAGDADI:
Tithing came before the law. Abraham did tithing before the law.

Abraham tithed before the Law but you people are tithing under the Law since your pastors use the Curse of the Law in Malachi to obligate you to tithe.

OpenYourEyes1:
There are false teachers who obviously take advantage of God's people... this doesn't mean true men of God don't exist.

The gospel must be preached everywhere anyway & according to God's Prophesy.
The gospel will reach the length and breadth of our planet then the end will come.

And according to the apostle's doctrine. Otherwise, there will be a lot false teaching like we are now finding it difficult to understand that tithing is not part of the Gospel. I mean there is no priest in Christianity because the work of a priest is completely about the law and not grace or the finished work of Christ on the cross. The more reason i wonder why a pastor will assume himself a priest and want to collect tithe.

DF is the my man of the year. His sustained and relentless efforts to have the Nigeria Christianity, get it right and learn the truth about God, is highly commendable. He's suffered numerous abuse but he remained undeterred. This is because he is speaking the truth and has all his backings in the bible alone. No pastor has been able to successfully challenge him because you simply cannot challenge the truth

alBHAGDADI:
I'm glad you didn't say he antagonized the spoon law. So how come you are talking as if he did?

The tithe law is very clear

Tithe is agricultural produce not cash.


This is to be eaten and drunk in the presence of the Lord.

Not given to pastors to start businesses or buy private jets

Tithe was about gettiing increas from the LAND

agricultural increase


Everything about Tithe was AGRICULTURAL

It was not for lawyers or others who did not till the land.

Specifically THE PROMISED LAND

[quote author=BluntBoy post=73716214].............

UNTIL CALAMITY BEFORES MAN IT STATE OF MIND ALWAYS MAKES HIM FEELS LIKE A SUPER HERO MAY GOD HELP US AND MAY WE NOT COME ACCROSS PEOPLE THAT WILL DECIVE US I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE AND HOW IT WAS FORMED AND SOMEDAY I WILL DIE AND LIVE THE WORLD AND THE WORLD WILL STILL BE THERE BUT I HAVE UPHOLD A BOOK CALLED THE PEOPLE THAT HAS MADE BELIEVE AND REALIZE THAT THE WORLD IS BUILD ON PROPHESY AND HAPPENINGS AROUND THE WORLD BOTH IN YEARS PAST AND NOW AMD THE FUTURE HAS HELPED ME TO BELIEVE ALL IN THE BIBLE SO LET PEOPLE STICK TO WHAT THEY BELIEVE BUT ALL I KNOW GOD IS BIGGER THAN ALL

Monday morning, the rest of the world is innovating, inventing and producing.

The same Monday morning Africans in the global HQ of extreme poverty are congregated to argue about who is worshipping "god" better.

These Africans somehow cannot see the link between their stupid obsession with religions and their total lack of status in this world.

I mean if "god" is real, then you only have to look at the state of Africa compared to elsewhere to know which people "god" is interested in.

Your god clearly hates all of you and does not value your existence at all.

Enoch Adeboye came out to say

Anyone who does not pay tithe is not going too heaven


Did Jesus say that?

Is that a false doctrine?

YEs or no

Do not beat about the bush

pls pray for me, since I picked #500 from the ground this morning, my body has been doing me as if I want to turn to yam.

0monnak0da:
The tithe law is very clear

Tithe is agricultural produce not cash.


This is to be eaten and drunk in the presence of the Lord.

Not given to pastors to start businesses or buy private jets

Tithe was about gettiing increas from the LAND

agricultural increase


Everything about Tithe was AGRICULTURAL

It was not for lawyers or others who did not till the land.

Specifically THE PROMISED LAND

The tithe Abraham gave, was it agricultural produce?