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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 4:20am On Jan 09, 2019 |
HellVictorinho:Quote where I said so. HellVictorinho:Any armed robber is welcome to rob me. |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 7:19am On Jan 09, 2019 |
9inches: Okay. You believe murder is objectively evil. If a hired assassin comes to your abode, and while getting a vintage point to take you out, your gateman kills him, has your gateman committed a crime? Is your gateman done an evil deed? |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 7:20am On Jan 09, 2019 |
HellVictorinho: In terms of morality, it can either be objective or subjective. Context matters in English language. |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by Nobody: 7:45am On Jan 09, 2019 |
9inches:You asked, "what is wrong about that?" |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 7:54am On Jan 09, 2019 |
9inches: You are being fallacious. Your argument is akin to this conversation: John: I am my father's son Joseph: How do you know? John: My father told me. It's called a circular argument. Jesus died and was crucified. Who told you that? The Bible did. See? It's like asking why Jesus is the only way. Nobody else in history made the claims Jesus did. Nobody else claimed to be able to deal with the problem of the human heart like he did. Nobody else claimed as Jesus did to be "God with us!" So, whether you believe his claims or not, it's evident Jesus was utterly unique. Again, you are being fallacious. Claiming Christianity is true because of the claims of Jesus is nothing short of nonsensical. Take any religion in the world, and I will show you what makes them unique. Mohammed in Islam claims he is the final prophet sent from God. He recognized Jesus and what he has to say, but claims his prophethood is final and complete — no messenger will come after him. Buddhists claim Buddhism is the most unique religion to have ever existed. They say unlike the barbaric Abrahamic God, there is no almighty God in Buddhism, no one to hand out rewards and punishments. They claim that while all religions teach some forms or variations of stabilizing/single-pointedness meditation, only Buddhism emphasizes Vipassana (Insight) meditation as a powerful tool to assist one in seeking liberation/enlightenment. I have heard a Hindu say that asking about the uniqueness of Hinduism would be belittling its profundity. He says Hinduism is unparalleled in breadth and depth of exploration, documentation and expression of a Godward aspiration, God-discovery, God-realisation and manifesting this Knowledge in life through art, poetry, scripture and simple life. So you see, there is nothing special about the claims of Jesus. I can make much more absurd claims and start a movement. Does that mean my religion is the one and only because of that? You have not offered me any verifiable proof as to why Christianity is true. You can do better, right? 7 Likes 1 Share |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 8:25am On Jan 09, 2019 |
joseph1013:Crime is a different conversation about secular law. No, the gateman hasn't done an evil deed. |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 8:28am On Jan 09, 2019 |
HellVictorinho:Yes, I ASKED. |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 8:56am On Jan 09, 2019 |
9inches: Which other law are you referring to? Spiritual law? |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 10:24am On Jan 09, 2019 |
joseph1013:Pardon, what did you think my argument was there? What's your understanding of the word "If"? Again, you are being fallacious.Where did I claim Christianity is true from the quote? You're attacking a straw man now. Not good Mohammed in Islam claims he is the final prophet sent from God. He recognized Jesus and what he has to say, but claims his prophethood is final and complete — no messenger will come after him.Right. So what do you mean by "he recognized Jesus and what he has to say"? Do you think that according to the Christian claim of who Jesus says he is and what he taught...that both religions agree? See, I was pointing out the biggest (fundamental) difference between both faiths to dispel any argument of different religions being true. I even used the law of contradiction, that shows what my argument was - the differences, not the validity of the claims. Buddhists claim Buddhism is the most unique religion to have ever existed. They say unlike the barbaric Abrahamic God, there is no almighty God in Buddhism, no one to hand out rewards and punishments. They claim that while all religions teach some forms or variations of stabilizing/single-pointedness meditation, only Buddhism emphasizes Vipassana (Insight) meditation as a powerful tool to assist one in seeking liberation/enlightenment.Boom! You just helped me with another difference! Now can any rational person say both are equally valid and that their exclusive claims are both true? Of course not! Again, apply law of non contradiction - it's either the Christian claim is false and the Buddhist is the truth or vice versa. Both claims can also both be false but they CANNOT both be true. Do you understand that now? I have heard a Hindu say that asking about the uniqueness of Hinduism would be belittling its profundity. He says Hinduism is unparalleled in breadth and depth of exploration, documentation and expression of a Godward aspiration, God-discovery, God-realisation and manifesting this Knowledge in life through art, poetry, scripture and simple life.Christianity makes those exact claims too, nothing unique here. Here's one of Jesus' outrageous (special) claims: (John 6:52-58) "Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, 'How can this man give us his flesh to eat?' Jesus said to them, 'Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.'" It's either he is a nutjob, as in, a wacko - a crazy lunatic or he's telling the truth. Do you think any religion accepts this claim? Do you still think Muhammad "recognized Jesus and what he has to say"? Mind you, the group of people Jesus was talking to in this passage all believed in God, yet they were shocked, even a lot of his disciples left him because of such statement. You have not offered me any verifiable proof as to why Christianity is true. You can do better, right?I asked what type of proof you are asking for. Well, Jesus as an individual, a human who walked this earth, died and resurrected... is verifiable. You weren't paying attention, I stated that previously. Go and check. |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 10:51am On Jan 09, 2019 |
9inches: Isn't the uniqueness of Christianity an argument for its validity? I'm not having this discussion for discussion sake. It's all targeted towards making you tell us why Christianity is true. Right. So what do you mean by "he recognized Jesus and what he has to say"? Do you think that according to the Christian claim of who Jesus says he is and what he taught...that both religions agree? See, I was pointing out the biggest (fundamental) difference between both faiths to dispel any argument of different religions being valid and true. I even used the law of contradiction, that shows what my argument was - the differences, not the validity of the claims. See...you realize that Islam and Christianity agree on certain aspects. They are both Abrahamic religions. They both recognize the Old Testament. Of course, they both disagree. Even Christianity is not singular. These are about 3000 denominations in Christianity, so this exclusivity you intend to give yourself has no validity. Boom! You just helped me with another difference! Now can any rational person say both are equally valid and that their exclusive claims are both true? Of course not! Again, apply law of non contradiction - it's either the Christian claim is false and the Buddhist is the truth or vice versa. Both claims can also both be false but they CANNOT both be true. Do you understand that now? That's the point. The claim is that that's what makes the religion unique. Christianity makes those exact claims too, nothing unique here. When I ask for proof of Christianity, offering me absurd statements of Christ does not qualify as proof. Other religions offer some absurd claims too. When I ask of proof, I'm referring to something tangible. Something like claims of the Bible being inspired by God. Something like a believer being a better human than anyone on earth due to the Holy Spirit indwelling. Something like miraculous claims by Christians that have been verified to be true. Offering me claims I can make doesn't cut it. 3 Likes |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 11:18am On Jan 09, 2019 |
joseph1013:Moral law. |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 11:32am On Jan 09, 2019 |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by Nobody: 12:24pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
9inches:You are creationist,period. And everything you do is in a bid to validate that. |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 1:29pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
joseph1013:No sir, uniqueness does not mean validity. I wonder where you got that from. Something can be unique without it being valid or credible or authentic or even good. Check definition of unique. By the way, I said this 9inches:and you mischaracterized my statements and accused me of fallacy joseph1013: joseph1013:Way more than 3000; it's about 33,000 and counting although a lot of them believe precisely the same thing. But even if, let's say, they account for 3000 different beliefs, those differences matter a whole lot, more so, if those are fundamental differences. Like I previously said, every belief system has some good in it; some have more, some have less. But the whole point here is that you should not equivocate different contradicting belief systems even if they share some similarities or have some good in it. It's a postmodern moral relativist and nonsensical thing to do. That's the point. The claim is that that's what makes the religion unique.Time to check the meaning of the word "unique". When I ask for proof of Christianity, offering me absurd statements of Christ does not qualify as proof. Other religions offer some absurd claims too. Remember this? Now read the highlighted again. 9inches: |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 1:36pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
9inches: This comment is difficult to read, as my comments and yours have been lumped together. The bone of contention is this: When I ask of proof, I'm referring to something tangible. Something like claims of the Bible being inspired by God. Something like a believer being a better human than anyone on earth due to the Holy Spirit indwelling. Something like miraculous claims by Christians that have been verified to be true. Saying the original Christian faith passes these three tests with flying colors by offering rhetoric does not cut it. |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 2:35pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
joseph1013:Merriam-webster: moral law is a general rule of right living especially such a rule or group of rules conceived as universal and unchanging and as having the sanction of God's will, of conscience, of man's moral nature, or of natural justice as revealed to human reason. |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 4:24pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
9inches:Who created this law? |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 4:56pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
HellVictorinho:Breaking news! |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 4:58pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
joseph1013:Crazy time at work. Now fixed. |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by Nobody: 6:19pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
9inches: |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 7:55pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
joseph1013:I totally agree with you. Rhetoric doesn't cut it, and reasonably so. That's why you don't have to take my word for it. Evidence are meant to be tested. joseph1013: At this your level of faith? You're still struggling with "Preambles of Faith" while asking me to talk to you about "Articles of Faith". Talking to you about deeper matters of faith at this point will sound to you like tales by the moonlight. You'll be lost in confusion. In the Catholic Church, we start from the basics, deal with the fundamentals and work our way deeper. We don't just throw you into the middle of the bible and tell you about 'Works of the holy spirit when you are yet to grasp information about God or Jesus Christ. If you don't know God, how could anything that come out him make sense to you? |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 8:50pm On Jan 09, 2019 |
joseph1013:God I believe. |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 7:01am On Jan 10, 2019 |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 7:08am On Jan 10, 2019 |
9inches: Hahaha...see what I am saying. Instead of bringing about coherent arguments...you resort to ad hominems. My questions to you are simple and I have consistently asked them only for you to keep drumming fallacies. Not going to work. I will repeat: When I ask of proof, I'm referring to something tangible. Something like claims of the Bible being inspired by God. Something like a believer being a better human than anyone on earth due to the Holy Spirit indwelling. Something like miraculous claims by Christians that have been verified to be true. Can you provide these tangible proofs of your faith? Take any religious beliefs and your rhetoric will fit like a glove. |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 9:51am On Jan 10, 2019 |
joseph1013:The uncreated Supernatural from whom every other thing came into being. |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by CAPSLOCKED: 10:46am On Jan 10, 2019 |
FINALLY FOUND THE ONLY SAINT TRULY WORTHY OF SAINTHOOD. I LIKE THIS GUY! 2 Likes
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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 11:03am On Jan 10, 2019 |
joseph1013:All you've been saying here is nonsensical, you can try to present sensible arguments. See, it's easy to do what you're doing. Labelling arguments you don't like as incoherent or fallacies doesn't make them as such, especially if you don't "coherently" and credibly refute those arguments. You're being openly dishonest in this conversation. 9inches: Come back here and tell all of us how much you tested this and how true/false this is. |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 11:15am On Jan 10, 2019 |
9inches: Do you have evidence for such a being? |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 11:31am On Jan 10, 2019 |
9inches: I have a feeling I am wasting my time. - You made a claim. - You say the claim can be tested via three tests (never mind that there is no universal corroboration of it, but for the sake of indulging you I have allowed it to stand). - I ask that you tell me how your claim passes the three tests. - You start ad hominems. What kind of conversation do you think this is? |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 12:27pm On Jan 10, 2019 |
joseph1013:You are clearly one of the evidence. |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by 9inches(m): 1:13pm On Jan 10, 2019 |
joseph1013:I noticed that too. As soon as I posted the evidence for you to test, your bias (perhaps, pre-planned agenda?) kicked in to overdrive. You "allow it to stand"? Oh thanks for your patronage! If you have a different question, you can ask. As for 'evidence of Christianity' question, you already have it. You don't choose evidence or facts for consideration; you consider them as they present themselves. The onus is on you to refute. Merely dismissing them is pure folly. |
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 1:47pm On Jan 10, 2019 |
9inches: There is something called 'burden of proof'. He who makes a claim is obligated to prove the assertion. |
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