blueAgent:


Lie.
God has clear told us that Jesus is his literal Son.

Jesus also affirmed that and also told us that his father is greater than him, but you trinitarians want us to ignore all the clear Bible verses that Describes God and his son Jesus, inorder to accept a fraud called trinity doctrine that has it's origin in pagan religion.

ok

blueAgent:

blueAgent:

blueAgent:

blueAgent:

beelzebubAgent, you know i wont waste time any more explaining anything to you a sewer mouth false accuser
who has absolutely no understanding, with lies and confusion

i may occasionally show up some of your non understanding, lies, and confusion
not just now in these posts though, there is way to much non understanding, lies, and confusion in them

Mat_7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

blueAgent:



Let me bust your bubble.

This Bible verses prove that the disciples did not baptize in the name of the father ,Son and Holy Spirit.

of course beelzebubAgent doesn't believe God's word and would change it

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

blueAgent:

btw, i don't believe the Son is the Father, i believe Father
and Son is two persons in God, as in john 1:1
read your post and see how there is no one more duh than
you.

Really? from trinity to two persons in God, what do we call your own doctrine twinity ?

what confusion, john 1:1 doesn't mention Holy Spirit oh confused beelzebubAgent of no understanding, laugh

blueAgent:


Lie.
God has clear told us that Jesus is his literal Son.

laughing, poor beelzebubAgent of no understanding thinks trinity doesn't believe that Jesus is Father's Son, ha ha ha

blueAgent:



Are you trying to run away from my simple questions?

Only a yes or No will do.

what a duh question from a confused one of no understanding
Father and the Word is God, john 1:1
if Father God didn't exist, of course God the Word wouldn't exist, nothing wouldn't exist without God-Father and the Word

solite3:
why are mountains, earth and productive lands not called God's Son?

God's creation= mountains, earth and productive lands & Jesus, the beginning of God's creation, also "the first born of every creature" Colossians 1:15 (KJV).
Deut 32:18, Solite3 FRAUD THEORIST,
how did God give birth to you?


"You forgot the Rock who fathered you,
And you did not remember the God who
gave birth to you."



Moses is asking you a thought provoking question, Solite3 Pharisee LIAR.

Deut 32:6,
"Is this the way that you should treat
Jehovah,
O foolish and unwise people (solite3)?
Is he not your Father who caused your
existence?"

The doctrine of the Holy Trinity is the most confusing aspects of Christianity because it talk about one God that exist as three distinctive persons. As Christians we all belief that there is only one God and at the same time we belief that they are three person in one God and that doesn't categorically means that they three Gods but only one God. The Father who is the first person of the Trinity is the maker of the universe and everything within and under the earth. The Son who happens to be the second person of the Trinity is the redeemer of human race, he was send by the father to save us, he died for us so that we can have eternal life. The Holy Spirit who happens to be the third person of the Trinity is the comforter promised and sent by the son to guide us and to be with us till the end of time.

The father exist and is being glorified in the son, the son exist and he is being glorified in the father, The Holy Spirit Exist and is being glorified in the father and the son, The father and the son both exist and are being glorified in the Holy Spirit.

We do know that some of our Christian brothers does not agree with the doctrine of the Trinity but it is indeed stupid to deny the God nature of the son. The Holy scripture confirms that Jesus Christ is God and he is co-equal with the father . Here are St part of the scriptures where Jesus was called God

In the Gospel of St John 20 Vs 28

"And Thomas answered and said to him, My LORD and my God."

Also in the Gospel of St John 5 Vs 18, The equality of Jesus with the father is confirmed

Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

This two bible verse is enough to confirm the God nature of Christ.

Mat 28:19  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

believers are to be baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost
by the authority of these three divine persons who were present at Jesus baptism
so the persons baptized has faith in each divine person
hence a confirmation of the doctrine of the trinity
there are three persons, but one name, but one God, into which believers are baptized
and a proof of the true deity both of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
and that Christ, as the Son of God, is God; since baptism is administered equally in the name of all three
as a religious ordinance, which would never be in the name of a creature.

The Holy Spirit is God


God who is a Spirit, john 4:24, is the Father of Jesus Christ, and mary who is flesh is the mother of Jesus Christ
Jesus Christ is both God and man


Mat 1:20  But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

^^^ we know that Father God is the Father of Jesus Christ, and the above verse shows that the Holy spirit is the father of Jesus Christ
which = the Father is God - the Holy Spirit is God



and so God the Holy Spirit Fathered Jesus the Christ, who is God the Word, john 1:1, made flesh



^^^ Father is God, The Holy Spirit is God, The Word become Jesus Christ is God

olajigaolamide:



@1)

"..... it is indeed stupid to deny the God nature of the son.


@2)
The Holy scripture confirms that Jesus Christ is God and he is co-equal with the father .

@3
Here are St part of the scriptures where Jesus was called God

In the Gospel of St John 20 Vs 28

"And Thomas answered and said to him, My LORD and my God."


@4
Also in the Gospel of St John 5 Vs 18, The equality of Jesus with the father is confirmed

Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

***@1)
@ Genesis 5:3, King James Bible
"And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:"
Compare Genesis 1:26. Psalms 82:1,6.(KJV).

** Questions for Olamide...
I) Gen5:3. 1:26. Psalms 82:1,6, do you have God nature?
According to you, Jesus is God ,has God nature. Apply same logic to man,Man is God. You agree?

@2
John14:28, are you lying or is Jesus lying?


@3
John20:28, U call me " My Lord and my God"
and I already told you (in John20:17); ," I am going to your Father and my Father, your God and my God",
John20:17,is Jesus saying that he is the God and Lord and Father whom Thomas referred to?

Revelation 3:5,12, who did Jesus say is his God and Father in heaven?
Sin
@4))
Jesus said " that God was his Father,".
Compare John 10:33,36.

If Mr Olamide said that " God was his Father", does that statement actually mean that Mr Olamide "is making himself equal with God"?

johnw47:
The Holy Spirit is God


God who is a Spirit, john 4:24, is the Father of Jesus Christ, and mary who is flesh is the mother of Jesus Christ
Jesus Christ is both God and man


Mat 1:20  But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Wacky post.
So, God impregnated Mary to give birth to himself?
In other words, You have endorsed Mary as mother of God..
Mumu Johnw FRAUD ....

Janosky:

Wacky post.
So, God impregnated Mary to give birth to himself?

lying pharisee™ deceiver false jw Janosky/OneJ

oh so duh one, mary gave birth to the Christ who is God the word, not the Father, john 1:14, john 1:1
ha ha, you have as much understanding as the op, of course

Janosky :
In other words, You have endorsed Mary as mother of God..
Mumu Johnw FRAUD ....

mary is the mother of Jesus the man, she is not the mother of His Spirit - the Word of God
oh most duh one of no understanding, a clone of the op

you lot have been blinded by your daddy, is clear, laugh:

2Co_4:4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

how you hate the Truth
Joh_8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Janosky:



John20:28, U call me " My Lord and my God"
and I already told you (in John20:17); ," I am going to your Father and my Father, your God and my God",

lying pharisee™ deceiver false jw Janosky/OneJ

Father God is the Father and God of Jesus, and you think that shows that Jesus is not God
oh most duh one, that shows that Jesus isn't the Father, but The Word:

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 

Janosky:
John20:17,is Jesus saying that he is the God and Lord and Father whom Thomas referred to?

oh most confused one, thomas wasn't referring to the Father as my Lord and my God
thomas was referring to Christ as my Lord and my God, which of course is true,
i have posted many scriptures showing that Jesus is God, which you of course don't believe
making God a liar

Janosky:
Revelation 3:5,12, who did Jesus say is his God and Father in heaven?
Sin

Jesus said " that God was his Father,".
Compare John 10:33,36.

oh duh, over and over again confusion after confusion

Janosky:
If Mr Olamide said that " God was his Father", does that statement actually mean that Mr Olamide "is making himself equal with God"?

duh duh duh duh duh, olajigaolamide isn't God the Word

pathetic know nothing

Rev_21:23  And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.



God will lighten the huge city - the New Jerusalem
the Lamb will be the light of it

once again showing that the Lamb is God

solite3:

Stop pulling words out of context.
Apart from him nothing created would have being created.

It means without his agency creation is not possible.

Apart from him means he was excluded from that statement, The Father was the agency that created him. Hence the Father was called an agent too - Romans 11:36

solite3:

Does this make any sense

Jesus creation was by the Father's agency ! So I ask: Why is the Father also called an agent if he didn't made anything ?

solite3:
why are mountains, earth and productive lands not called God's Son?

That's not the issue here.

They were said to be given birth to, Right ?

solite3:
Jesus the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

You are a lair, Jesus is a servant of the God of Abraham , Isaac and Jacob says Act 3:13

Now that Jesus isn't even the God of Abraham, aren't u ashamed of yourself for the I am claims ?

solite3:
The Father is the source of all things just as the Word and the Holy Spirit.
So it doesn't falsify anything.

There is only one source NOT three, unless you mean all are same person, which isnt true - 1 Cor 8:6 says the Father is the source of all things .

So stop lying that Jesus is a source, that renders your interpretation of arche at Rev 3:14 as dead on arrival

johnw47:





Father God is the Father and God of Jesus, and you think that shows that Jesus is not God

Jesus is God, which you of course don't believe
making God a liar

Ephesians 1:3
"All praise to God, the Father of our Lord
Jesus Christ, "
Compare Rev 3:5,12-14.
PROOF Johnw FRAUD is a LEGENDARY MUMU....
who goes to extremes to TWIST the Scriptures ...
YEYE FRAUD Man with FRAUD DOCTRINE.

johnw47:


@1)
John 1:1
Jesus isn't the Father, but The Word:
thomas wasn't referring to the Father as my Lord and my God
thomas was referring to Christ as my Lord and my God, which of course is true,
.I have posted many scriptures showing that Jesus is God, which you of course don't believe
making God a liar


@2)

Janosky Question :
" If Mr Olamide said that " God was his Father", does that statement actually mean that Mr Olamide "is making himself equal with God"?"

** Johnw FRAUD: Oh duh, over and over again confusion after confusion
duh duh duh duh duh, olajigaolamide isn't God the Word
pathetic know nothing

,@1)
Johnw FRAUD is saying that Jesus is God, DISTINCT from God his Father = Jesus is God is NOT the Father God, equals Two distinct Gods..
Johnw FRAUD confirms his John 1:1 claims as FRAUD.
More so, the lying Pharisee doesn't even know the Greek meaning of his John 1:1 FRAUD.



**2)
John 14:28, "The Father is greater than I am ", says Jesus.
Rev3:12,in the Spirit realm his Father's Superiority is non negotiable.
Johnw FRAUD ,lying Pharisee wey no get sense......

Janosky:


Ephesians 1:3
"All praise to God, the Father of our Lord
Jesus Christ, "

laugh, repeating your same confusion, over and over again, post after post

lying pharisee™ Janosky/oneJ

Eph 1:3  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

deceiver, that verse doesn't show that Jesus is not God, oh so confused one.
and of course the word who became Jesus is God, like so many verses show, and which you don't believe:
Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Janosky: Compare Rev 3:5,12-14.
PROOF Johnw FRAUD is a LEGENDARY MUMU....
who goes to extremes to TWIST the Scriptures ...
YEYE FRAUD Man with FRAUD DOCTRINE.

ha ha, tormented cannot stop lying know nothing

Rev 3:5  He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

oh most confused one, that verse doesn't show that Jesus is not God either, one of no understanding at all

Rev 3:12  Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. 
Rev 3:13  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. 
To the Church in Laodicea
Rev 3:14  And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

the beginning of the creation of God; = Jesus began the creation of Father God, as scriptures show.
the word Jesus Christ made all things, without Him nothing was made, nothing was made that Jesus didn't make, john 1:3
showing that Jesus wasn't made. i talked much about this with scriptures, alas you don't believe God's word


know nothing false jw, those verses show that Father is the God of Jesus , they don't contradict all the many verse showing that Jesus is also God
just a couple:

Joh 20:28  And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Heb 1:8  But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 
Heb 1:9  Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

^^^ these two hebrew verses, as well as showing that the Father is Jesus God, show that Father and Son is God, just as John 1:1 does
Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

oh great fraud Janosky/OneJ twister of God's word.

Janosky:


,@1)
Johnw FRAUD is saying that Jesus is God, DISTINCT from God his Father

oh great fraud and twister of everything said, false jw Janosky/OneJ
i have always said the Word and the Father is the one God as per john 1:1,
look back at my posts and try and quote me truthfully, ha ha, impossible

Janosky:
= Jesus is God is NOT the Father God, equals Two distinct Gods..

laughing, oh no twisting false jw
= Jesus is God, and Father is God, two persons, one God, john 1:1, oh huge twisting cannot stop lying mumu fraud

not two gods as you polytheist false jw's believe in, a almighty god the father, and a mighty god jesus, laugh

Janosky:
Johnw FRAUD confirms his John 1:1 claims as FRAUD.

ha ha such a liar and blinded one:
2Co_4:4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Joh 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Janosky:
More so, the lying Pharisee doesn't even know the Greek meaning of his John 1:1 FRAUD.

oh but i do know the greek of john 1:1 and i have corrected your confused meaning to you more than once, oh cannot stop lying , tormented twister of God's word
i have explained it to you that even a child could understand, but not a confused mumu

twisting fraud Janosky/OneJ, john 1:1 doesn't mean "the Word was with God and the word was "a god"
that's two god's that you polytheist false jw's believe in

Janosky:
John 14:28, "The Father is greater than I am ", says Jesus.
Rev3:12,in the Spirit realm his Father's Superiority is non negotiable.
Johnw FRAUD ,lying Pharisee wey no get sense......

the Father is greater than Jesus, and Father and the Word is God, oh such a duh one of no understanding
go back and read all the scriptures again, but believe them, laughing

false jw Janosky/oneJ, such a huge fraud and twister of God's word, true

and oh sooooo confused

1Co_14:33  For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

[quote author=johnw47 post=82182183]


so confused beelzebubAgent of absolutely no understanding

1timothy certainly is about the Father being King of kings and Lord of lords:
1Ti_6:15  Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

and rev 17 is about The Word(Jesus) being King of Kings and Lord of lords:
Rev_17:14  These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithf

Father and Son being King of kings and Lord of lords = Father and the Word(Jesus) is God:
Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[/quote
Trinitarians sometimes claim 1 Timothy
3:16 identifies Jesus as “God” because
the KJV translation says “God was
manifested in the flesh.” However,
modern Bible translations do not read
“God” in this verse. Trinitarians make
this claim by quoting from the King
James Version, despite the fact that
Bible scholars agree that the KJV
reading is a certain corruption. Despite
this, Trinitarians continue to cherry-pick
this verse from the KJV.
Below is the SDA Bible Commentary
based on the incorrect KJV translation
of the word “God.” The correct
translation is “he or who,” not “God. ” And
that “he” is Jesus Christ.
“God: Textual evidence favors the reading
“he who.” The reference is clearly to
Jesus, in and through whom the divine
secret has been revealed. ” — (Seventh-
day Adventist Bible Commentary)
Here is this verse from the KJV.
1 Timothy 3:16 KJV “And without
controversy great is the mystery of
godliness: God was manifest in the flesh,
justified in the Spirit, seen of angels,
preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in
the world, received up into glory. ”
And here it is from the NIV.
1 Timothy 3:16 NIV “Beyond all question,
the mystery of godliness is great: He
appeared in a body, was vindicated by
the Spirit, was seen by angels, was
preached among the nations, was
believed on in the world, was taken up in
glory. ”
If the word “God” was correct, observe
how the rest of the verse would read,
which is clearly incorrect.
1 Timothy 3:16 KJV “And without
controversy great is the mystery of
godliness: God was manifest in the flesh,
[God was] justified in the Spirit, [God was]
seen of angels, [God was] preached unto
the Gentiles, [God was] believed on in the
world, [God was] received up into glory. ”
Was God received up into glory? No!
Jesus Christ was received up into glory.
Trinitarians are going to have a hard
time making all that fit. Now if the
correct translation of “He” is used
referring to Christ, we have no problem
as we see below.
1 Timothy 3:16 “And without controversy
great is the mystery of godliness: [He]
was manifest in the flesh, [He was]
justified in the Spirit, [He was] seen of
angels, [He was] preached unto the
Gentiles, [He was] believed on in the
world, [He was] received up into glory. ”
Note the “New International Reader's
Version” for example.
1 Timothy 3:16 NIRV “ There is no doubt
that godliness is a great mystery. Jesus
appeared in a body. The Holy Spirit
proved that he was the Son of God. He
was seen by angels. He was preached
among the nations. People in the world
believed in him. He was taken up to
heaven in glory.”
The following Bible Commentary from
Albert Barnes explains how this error
happened. You will notice that he is
reluctant to state the obvious as he was
in fact a Trinitarian.
Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible,
(1798-1870)
“God - Probably there is no passage in
the New Testament which has excited so
much discussion among critics as this,
and none in reference to which it is so
difficult to determine the true reading. It
is the only one, it is believed, in which the
microscope has been employed to
determine the lines of the letters used in
a manuscript; and, after all that has been
done to ascertain the exact truth in
regard to it, still the question remains
undecided. It is not the object of these
notes to enter into the examination of
questions of this nature. A full
investigation may be found in Wetstein.
The question which has excited so much
controversy is, whether the original Greek
word was Θεὸς Theos, “God,” or whether
it was ὅςhos, “who,” or ὁho, “which.” The
controversy has turned, to a considerable
degree, on the reading in the “Codex
Alexandrinus;” and a remark or two on the
method in which the manuscripts in the
New Testament were written, will show
the true nature of the controversy.
Greek manuscripts were formerly written
entirely in capital letters, and without
breaks or intervals between the words,
and without accents; see a full
description of the methods of writing the
New Testament, in an article by Prof.
Stuart in Dr. Robinson's Biblotheca Sacra,
No. 2, pp. 254ff The small, cursive Greek
letters which are now used, were not
commonly employed in transcribing the
New Testament, if at all, until the ninth or
tenth centuries. It was a common thing to
abridge or contract words in the
manuscript. Thus, πρ would be used for
πατερpater, “father;” κς for κυριοςkurios,
“Lord;” Θς for Θεος Theos, “God,” etc.
The words thus contracted were
designated by a faint line or dash over
them. In this place, therefore, if the
original uncials (capitals) were Θ¯C¯,
standing for Θεὸς Theos, “God,” and the
line in the Θ, and the faint line over it,
were obliterated from any cause, it would
easily be mistaken for OC - ὅςhos -
“who.”
To ascertain which of these is the true
reading, has been the great question; and
it is with reference to this that the
microscope has been resorted to in the
examination of the Alexandrian
manuscript. It is now generally admitted
that the faint line “over” the word has
been added by some later hand, though
not improbably by one who found that the
line was nearly obliterated, and who
meant merely to restore it. Whether the
letter O was originally written with a n't
within it, making the reading “God,” it is
now said to be impossible to determine,
in consequence of the manuscript at this
place having become so much worn by
frequent examination. The Vulgate and
the Syriac read it: “who,” or “which.” The
Vulgate is, “Great is the sacrament of
piety which was manifested in the flesh.”
The Syriac, “Great is the mystery of
godliness, that he was manifested in the
flesh. ”
So it has been admitted by many that
this could be a deliberate corruption to
push the Trinity doctrine. Albert Barnes
admits this and then tries to cover
obscure this fact by giving an opinion in
favour of what he would like to believe.
Thus we find that there are many
theologians who actually have a good
idea how this corruption happened.
Scribal copyists regularly used a
contracted form of the Greek word for
“God” called a “nomina sacra ” that was
used very early in Christian history for
sacred names. The Greek word for
“God” is theos which is written as
“Θεος. ” The abbreviation took the form
“Θς” with a faint overscore stroke above
the abbreviation, which often become
quite faint in the copies.
Now the Greek word for “who” is the
word “hos ” which is written in Greek as
“Oς. ” Notice the similarity between these
two words “Θς ” and “Oς ” and also
remember they were hand written. With
the exception of one pen stroke, the
Omicron “O ” and Theta “Θ ” are nearly
identical. So it would be very easy to
make a mistake copying from one
manuscript to another, which would be
excusable if this is what happened.
But it would also be easy for an
overzealous scribe to execute a forgery
by changing the manuscript and the
handwritten “O ” (Omicron) into a
“Θ ” (Theta) with a single stroke of his
pen which would completely change the
meaning of the verse.
It would also be very easy to change the
word “ho” to “theos” by adding a stroke
and an “ s.” But it would be a lot more
difficult to do it the other way around
without getting caught as you would
have to remove the stroke.
There is also evidence that ink may have
bled through the other side of the media
and made it appear to a copyist to read
“Θς ” because the ink bleeding could
make it appear to be a line where “Oς ”
had been written. Whether or not it was
an honest copying mistake or a forgery,
it is very likely that the error was
produced in this manner.
So below are the known facts:
1) Trinitarians are focused on a version
of the text which is known to be a scribal
error.
2) Modern Trinitarian translations and
their translators admit this is a scribal
error and do not translate this passage
with the known error that seemed to
support Trinity doctrine.
3) We know this error occurred by either
(1) one additional stroke of a pen
changing the Greek word from “who” to
“God” or (2) by two additional strokes of
a pen changing the Greek word from
“which” to God, or (3) by the ink bleeding
through the media used.
4) The KJV version of this verse is NOT
found anywhere in early Christian
writings before the Trinity doctrine was
created.
5) No early manuscripts contain this
version of the verse. The corrupted
version of this text appears only after the
Trinity doctrine was developed in the
fourth and fifth century.
6) The Greek grammar also indicates
this rendering is wrong.
Below I have provided 25 translations
(and there are many more ) where the
translators new it was error and have
the correct reading of the manuscript.
Most say “He” and some even say
“Jesus” and “Christ” outright.
1Timothy 3:16
(ASV) “And without controversy great is
the mystery of godliness; He who was
manifested in the flesh, Justified in the
spirit, Seen of angels, Preached among
the nations, Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.”
(BBE) “ And without argument, great is
the secret of religion: He who was seen
in the flesh, who was given God's
approval in the spirit, was seen by the
angels, of whom the good news was
given among the nations, in whom the
world had faith, who was taken up in
glory. ”
(CEV) “ Here is the great mystery of our
religion: Christ came as a human. The
Spirit proved that he pleased God, and he
was seen by angels. Christ was preached
to the nations. People in this world put
their faith in him, and he was taken up to
glory. ”
(CJB) “Great beyond all question is the
formerly hidden truth underlying our faith:
He was manifested physically and proved
righteous spiritually, seen by angels and
proclaimed among the nations, trusted
throughout the world and raised up in
glory to heaven. ”
(CENT) “By common confession, great is
the mystery of godliness: he was
revealed in the flesh, was vindicated in
the Spirit, seen by angels, preached
among the nations, believed on in the
world, taken up in glory. ”
(ESV) “Great indeed, we confess, is the
mystery of godliness: He was manifested
in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen
by angels, proclaimed among the nations,
believed on in the world, taken up in
glory. ”
(GNB) “ No one can deny how great is the
secret of our religion: He appeared in
human form, was shown to be right by
the Spirit, and was seen by angels. He
was preached among the nations, was
believed in throughout the world, and was
taken up to heaven. ”
(HCSB) “ And most certainly, the mystery
of godliness is great: He was manifested
in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by
angels, preached among the Gentiles,
believed on in the world, taken up in
glory. ”
(LONT) “And, confessedly, great is the
secret of godliness; -he who has
manifested in the flesh, justified in the
Spirit; seen of messengers, proclaimed to
the Gentiles, believed on in the world,
taken up in glory. ”
(MSG) “ This Christian life is a great
mystery, far exceeding our understanding,
but some things are clear enough: He
appeared in a human body, was proved
right by the invisible Spirit, was seen by
angels. He was proclaimed among all
kinds of peoples, believed in all over the
world, taken up into heavenly glory.”
(MRC) “ And as agreed by common
consent great is the mystery of piety: He
Who was manifested in the flesh, was
justified in the Spirit, seen by angels,
proclaimed among the nations, believed
on in the world, taken up in glory. ”
(NASB) “By common confession, great is
the mystery of godliness: He who was
revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in
the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed
among the nations, Believed on in the
world, Taken up in glory. ”
(NCV) “ Without doubt, the secret of our
life of worship is great: He was shown to
us in a human body, proved right in spirit,
and seen by angels. He was preached to
those who are not Jews, believed in by
the world, and taken up in glory. ”
(NET) “And we all agree, our religion
contains amazing revelation: He was
revealed in the flesh, vindicated by the
Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among
Gentiles, believed on in the world, taken
up in glory. ”
(NIRV) “There is no doubt that godliness
is a great mystery. Jesus appeared in a
body. The Holy Spirit proved that he was
the Son of God. He was seen by angels.
He was preached among the nations.
People in the world believed in him. He
was taken up to heaven in glory. ”
(NIV) “Beyond all question, the mystery
of godliness is great: He appeared in a
body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was
seen by angels, was preached among the
nations, was believed on in the world,
was taken up in glory. ”
(NLT) “Without question, this is the great
mystery of our faith: Christ appeared in
the flesh and was shown to be righteous
by the Spirit. He was seen by angels and
was announced to the nations. He was
believed on in the world and was taken
up into heaven. ”
(NLV) “It is important to know the secret
of Godlike living, which is: Christ came to
earth as a Man. He was pure in His Spirit.
He was seen by angels. The nations
heard about Him. Men everywhere put
their trust in Him. He was taken up into
heaven. ”
(NRSV) “Without any doubt, the mystery
of our religion is great: He was revealed
in flesh, vindicated in spirit, seen by
angels, proclaimed among Gentiles,
believed in throughout the world, taken up
in glory. ”
(RSV) “Great indeed, we confess, is the
mystery of our religion: He was
manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the
Spirit, seen by angels, preached among
the nations, believed on in the world,
taken up in glory. ”
(RV) “And without controversy great is
the mystery of godliness; He who was
manifested in the flesh, justified in the
spirit, seen of angels, preached among
the nations, believed on in the world,
received up in glory. ”
(TCNT) “ Yes, and confessedly wonderful
are the deep truths of our religion; for--
'He was revealed in our nature,
pronounced righteous in spirit, seen by
angels, proclaimed among the Gentiles,
believed on in the world, taken up into
glory.' ”
(UPDV) “And without controversy great is
the mystery of godliness; He who was
manifested in the flesh, Justified in the
spirit, Seen of angels, Preached among
the nations, Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.”
(WmsNT) “Undoubtedly the mystery of
our religion is a great wonder: "He was
made visible in human form; He was
vindicated by the Spirit; He was seen by
angels; He was proclaimed among the
heathen; He was trusted in throughout
the world; He was taken up to glory.”
(WNT) “And, beyond controversy, great is
the mystery of our religion-- that Christ
appeared in human form, and His claims
justified by the Spirit, was seen by angels
and proclaimed among Gentile nations,
was believed on in the world, and
received up again into glory. ”
Some Trinitarians will stop at nothing to
try and prove this soul stealing lie from
Satan that was brought into
Christendom by the Roman Catholic
Church long after the Bible was written.
1 Timothy 3:16 is a perfect example of
just how far they will go.

solite3:
Jesus the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

IS JESUS GOD? – PART 1
Does John 1:1 say Jesus is God?
John 1:1 says, “(a) In the beginning was
the Word, (b) and the Word was with [the]
God, (c) and the Word was God. ”
That this Divine Word is none other than
Jesus Christ is shown by verse 14, “And
the Word was made flesh, and dwelt
among us, (and we beheld his glory, the
glory as of the only begotten of the
Father,) full of grace and truth. ”
John 1:1a says the Word was in the
beginning, but the beginning of what? It
has to be the beginning of something.
Was it the beginning of this world? Was
it the beginning of the creation of the
angels? Whichever beginning you place
it at, it has to be the beginning of
something.
Many Trinitarians use this to say that
Christ has always been, and had no
beginning. But that is not what the verse
says. God had no beginning and has
always existed! Also the Word “with” has
to mean something. The Word was
“with” God. They cannot be the same
being, or one could not be with the other.
As John 1:2 NIV says, “He [Jesus] was
with God in the beginning. ”
The proper rendering of John 1:1 into
English from the original Koine Greek
text continues to be a source of vigorous
debate among Bible translators, and
especially the phrase the Word was God
(c). The first verse of John's Gospel
says that God's Son Christ Jesus, being
referred to as the Word here, was with
God in the beginning, (a+b). John 1:1b
does not say that the Messiah is God
but was with “the” God. It is important to
note that the word “the” exists in the
Greek text and was left out by
translators as they probably thought it
read wrong, but it is correct and has
purpose. Here is the original Greek text
for (1b).
και and 2532 CONJ ο the 3588 T-NSM λογος
Word 3056 N-NSM ην was 2258 V-IXI-3S
προς with 4314 PREP τον the 3588 T-ASM
θεον God 2316 N-ASM
The phrase “the God” identifies the one
true God the Father in this verse and so
the word “the” is important. While Jesus
is called God in this verse, there is a
clear distinction between Him and “the”
God whom He was with. The God whom
Jesus was with is “the” God the Father.
Jesus was not the same God He was
with but rather Jesus was God in the
sense of being divine just like His Father,
as being the Son, He inherits the
characteristics of His Father. The Father
is God and so His Son is God by nature
just as any human by inheritance
possesses the very nature and form of
humanity.
One can better understand John 1:1 by
using the same grammatical structure
but with different subjects such as
Adam and Eve for example. “In the
beginning was the woman, and the
woman was with [the] human, and the
woman was human. ” Adam is “the
human ” and the woman is Eve, but Eve is
also human by nature but Eve is not “the
human ” in identity. They are two
separate persons.
Look at this again with this perspective
in mind. “In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with the Deity, and the
Word was Deity. ” The Word, the Son was
with the supreme Deity the Father, and
the Word was Deity in nature. But the
Son was not “the” Deity, the Son was not
“the” Father, yet the Son has the Father's
divine nature by inheritance. The Word
has the same God quality, the same
divine nature and the same God-ness as
His Father.
Thus Jesus was with God in the
beginning, but He is not “the” God the
Father but God by inheritance and nature
being the Son. He is God because He is
the Son of God. It is that simple.
“Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.
He was begotten, not created. HE IS OF
THE SUBSTANCE OF THE FATHER, SO
THAT IN HIS VERY NATURE HE IS GOD;
and since this is so “it pleased the Father
that in him should all fullness dwell.” Col.
1:19 ... While both are of the same
nature, the Father is first in point of time.
He is also greater in that he had no
beginning, while Christ's personality had
a beginning. ” — (E.J. Waggoner, ST , April
8, 1889)

olajigaolamide:
The doctrine of the Holy Trinity is the most confusing aspects of Christianity because it talk about one God that exist as three distinctive persons. As Christians we all belief that there is only one God and at the same time we belief that they are three person in one God and that doesn't categorically means that they three Gods but only one God. The Father who is the first person of the Trinity is the maker of the universe and everything within and under the earth. The Son who happens to be the second person of the Trinity is the redeemer of human race, he was send by the father to save us, he died for us so that we can have eternal life. The Holy Spirit who happens to be the third person of the Trinity is the comforter promised and sent by the son to guide us and to be with us till the end of time.

The father exist and is being glorified in the son, the son exist and he is being glorified in the father, The Holy Spirit Exist and is being glorified in the father and the son, The father and the son both exist and are being glorified in the Holy Spirit.

We do know that some of our Christian brothers does not agree with the doctrine of the Trinity but it is indeed stupid to deny the God nature of the son. The Holy scripture confirms that Jesus Christ is God and he is co-equal with the father . Here are St part of the scriptures where Jesus was called God

In the Gospel of St John 20 Vs 28

"And Thomas answered and said to him, My LORD and my God."

Also in the Gospel of St John 5 Vs 18, The equality of Jesus with the father is confirmed

Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

This two bible verse is enough to confirm the God nature of Christ.

You are totally wrong. Jesus cannot be the son of God and still be Co-equal with God.
No where in the Bible is the Holy spirit called God or the word or concept of trinity is found.

John 14:28
“Ye have heard how I said unto you, I
go away, and come again unto you. If ye
loved me, ye would rejoice, because I
said, I go unto the Father: for my Father
is greater than I. ”

solite3:
ok

Does the Trinity Doctrine Make Sense or is it Nonsense? Since the Trinity doctrine claims Jesus is also the one God, an Adventist author from the 1800's wrote, “To believe that doctrine, when reading the scripture we must believe that God sent Himself into the world, died to reconcile the world to Himself, raised Himself from the dead, ascended to Himself in heaven, pleads before Himself in heaven to reconcile the world to Himself, and is the only mediator between man and Himself… We must believe also that in the garden God prayed to Himself, if it were possible, to let the cup pass from Himself, and a thousand other such absurdities. ” — (J.N. Loughborough) Some of those other absurdities it teaches is that Jesus is the immortal God but died, is the invisible God but was seen, is the omnipotent God but was strengthened by an angel, is the omniscient God but did not know the day of his return, is as great as His Father but His Father is greater than He, is equal with the Father and yet He is the Father, is the Son but the same age as the Father, is the Son who has a Father and the God who has no Father, is the begotten Son and the unbegotten God, is very God and very man, came out from Himself, prayed to Himself, gave power to Himself, thanked Himself, bore witness of Himself, went back to Himself, sits at the right hand of Himself, is His own Father and His own Son, left Heaven and yet was there all the time. There are many things which are hard to understand in the Bible but you can be sure that God never expects us to believe impossibilities. Over and over again you hear it said that the Gospel is so simple a child can understand it. And I agree. But how can that be the case with the teaching of the Trinity? Not only do children not understand it, but our best theologians cannot even explain it. However, the thought that God sent His Son to this earth to die for you and me is easy to comprehend when we believe the simple Bible statement that Jesus is truly the Son of God! Not one of three mysterious beings making up “one God.” How can you possibly believe that Jesus is NOT the begotten Son of the eternal Father and share John 3:16 with others in the hope of inviting them to take part in eternal salvation. Doesn't John 3:16 become a lie the moment you deny He is a Son? A metaphor did not send a metaphor to save us. A Father sent us His Son to save us. John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. ” 2 John 1:3 “Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. ”

solite3,johnw47
What does Alpha and Omega mean.

Note that every single verse with a reference to the Alpha and Omega without fail follows a reference to the second coming of Christ and the “end” of this world. This is not a coincidence. Christ created this world and brought about its beginning, and He will be there in its end at His second coming and will bring about its destruction. Thus Christ is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last as He states in Revelation 22:13. All three phrases mean the same thing. In Revelation 1:17-18 we find, “I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore. ” Who is the Alpha and Omega (the first and the last) that was dead and is alive for evermore? It is Christ. Revelation 1:7-8 “Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. ” Revelation 21:1-6 “ And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. ... 6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” Revelation 22:12-14 “And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. ” Note also that the last two passages while speaking of the end immediately reveal that those who keep the Commandments get to eat of the tree of life , and that the sorcerers, whoremongers, murderers, idolaters and liars perish. Note how Revelation 21:7 references Revelation 2:7 below, which in turn references Revelation 22:14 in regards to those who get to eat from the tree of life, which are those who keep the Commandments of God. Revelation 2:7 “To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. ” So we find a reference to the end of this world and the second coming of Christ before the words in question while directly after these words are two more things that happen directly after the end. That is too much evidence to be coincidental. And since we are at the end of the Bible and dealing with the end, then that is why these verses only refer to the “end.” So if the “end” is referring to the end of this world than the “beginning” obviously refers to the beginning of this world, which we find in the beginning of the Bible such as Genesis 1:1 and references to the first chapter of Genesis. So everything we have seen so far reveals that these verses are referring to the second coming of Christ and the end of this world where the faithful who kept the Commandments of God get to eat from the tree of life while others perish. Note Clarke's Commentary on Revelation 1:8 and how these words were used and understood by the Jews. Did they see these words to mean that Christ has always existed and is God? This of course would also contradict Proverbs 8 that says Christ was brought forth and so would not be possible anyway. Adam Clarke's Commentary on the Bible. Adam Clarke, LL.D., F.S.A., (1715-1832) “This mode of speech is borrowed from the Jews, who express the whole compass of things by א aleph and ת tau, the first and last letters of the Hebrew alphabet; but as St. John was writing in Greek, he accommodates the whole to the Greek alphabet, of which Α alpha and Ω omega are the first and last letters. With the rabbins מא ועד ת meeleph vead tau, “from aleph to tau,” expressed the whole of a matter, from the beginning to the end. So in Yalcut Rubeni, fol. 17, 4: Adam transgressed the whole law from aleph to tau; i.e., from the beginning to the end. Ibid., fol. 48, 4: Abraham observed the law, from aleph to tau; i.e., he kept it entirely, from beginning to end. Ibid., fol. 128, 3: When the holy blessed God pronounced a blessing on the Israelites, he did it from aleph to tau; i.e., he did it perfectly. ” So as the Jews understood on the meaning of these words, from the beginning and first book of the Bible to the end and last book of the Bible, Jesus encompasses all things. Thus the Jews who actually knew the meaning of these words disagree with the claim made by Trinitarians. The beginning and the end referred to in these passages is the beginning of this created world, while the end is the second coming of Christ and the end of this world, when a New Heaven and Earth are created. Christ brought about the beginning of this world and He also brings about its end. Barnes Commentary on Revelation 22:13 also confirms what Scripture reveals in this respect. Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible. Albert Barnes (1798-1870) “The idea here is, that he will thus show that he is the first and the last - the beginning and the end. He originated the whole plan of salvation, and he will determine its close; he formed the world, and he will wind up its affairs. ” For Adventists: “Christ says, “I am the true witness. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. ” — (E.G. White, 1SAT, 231.3) “even from Genesis to Revelation. Christ is the Alpha, the first link, and the Omega, the last link, of the gospel chain, which is welded in Revelation. ” — (E.G. White, 10MR 171.1) “He is the Author and Finisher of our faith, the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. ” — (E.G. White, 1888 , 783.2) “And so the statement that He is the beginning or head of the creation of God means that in Him creation had its beginning; that, as He Himself says, He is Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Rev. 21:6; 22:13. He is the source whence all things have their origin. ” — (E.J. Waggoner, CAHR , p. 20, 1890) The author of Hebrews illustrates another way that Jesus is the Alpha and Omega. “Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith. ” Hebrews 12:2 . Barnes Commentary relates this to the Alpha and Omega also. Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible. Albert Barnes (1798-1870) “The author and finisher of our faith - The word “our” is not in the original here, and obscures the sense. The meaning is, he is the first and the last as an example of faith ... The word “author” - ἀρχηγὸν archēgon - (marg. beginner) - means properly the source, or cause of anything; or one who makes a beginning. ... The phrase “the beginner of faith,” or the leader on of faith, would express the idea. He is at the head of all those who have furnished an example of confidence in God, for he was himself the most illustrious instance of it. ... The word “finisher” - τελειωτὴν teleiōtēn - corresponds in meaning with the word “author.” It means that he is the completer as well as the beginner; the last as well as the first. ... “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, the first and the last.” The word does not mean that he was the “finisher” of faith in the sense that he makes our faith complete or perfects it - whatever may be true about that - but that he occupies this elevated position of being beyond comparison above all others. Alike in the commencement and the close, in the beginning of faith, and in its ending, he stands pre-eminent. ” Considering these verses in Revelation that state the beginning and the end are referring to the creating and beginning of this world, consider now Genesis 1:1, John 1:1-3 and Hebrews 1:10. Genesis 1:1 “ In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. ” [ The Beginning] Compare with: Revelation 21:1 “I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; ” [The End] John 1:1-3 “ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He [Jesus] was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. ” Hebrews 1:10 “And, You, Lord, in the beginning have laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: ” So these verses do not reveal Christ to be without beginning but that He pre- existed before all things were created in the beginning of this world. The use of the word beginning in this respect is consistent throughout Scripture. The confusion originates from Revelation 1:8 that even has theologians disagreeing with each other as they have missed something so simple. Please allow me to explain. Note that the three phrases “the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last” in Revelation 22:13 all mean the same thing. And so from Revelation 1:17-18 we know that the “first and the last” (Alpha and Omega) is Christ. “I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore. ” For Adventists: Ellen White is also clear, “Christ says, “I am the true witness. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. ” — (E.G. White, 1SAT , 231.3) Hence the phrase “I am Alpha and Omega” at the beginning of Revelation 1:8 refers to Christ, but the remainder of this verse refers to the Father. How do we know? To begin with, Revelation 1:4-5 has the following salutation. “Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come ... and from Jesus Christ .” So this salutation is from the Father (which is, and which was, and which is to come) and His Son (and from Jesus Christ .). So we know that the latter part of Revelation 1:8 which says “saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty ” is referring to the Father while the phrase “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” is referring to Christ. This is where many get confused as they so easily read this verse incorrectly. They either apply the entire verse to the Lord God almighty or they apply it entirely to Christ. Not that it really makes much difference to the meaning of this verse and what I am explaining, but those who do their research will find that the NIV for once actually has the most accurate rendering of this verse. We find the phrase “the beginning and the ending ” was added in the KJV (which is not incorrect) and the word “God ” was left out which would have made this verse a little clearer but it should still be obvious to any good Bible student. Adam Clarke's Commentary in regards to the phrase “the beginning and the ending ” says “ This clause is wanting [missing] in almost every MS. and version of importance. It appears to have been added first as an explanatory note, and in process of time crept into the text. Griesbach has left it out of the text. ” And in regards to the phrase “saith the Lord,” Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset and David Brown Commentary says, “The oldest manuscripts read “the Lord God. ” And Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible says, “Or, saith God, according to what is now regarded as the correct reading. ” Compare the KJV and the NIV. Revelation 1:8 KJV “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. ” Revelation 1:8 NIV “I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty. ” Comparing the following verses also reveals that the “Lord God, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty ” refers to the Father beyond any doubt. Revelation 1:4-5 “Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come [ Father]; … and from Jesus Christ [ Son],” Revelation 4:8 “Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. ” Revelation 11:17 “ We give you thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which are, and were, and are to come;” The expression “which is, ” “ which was,” “which is to come” indicates that the last clause (which is to come) is a substitute for the future tense of the verb and is the same as saying “which will be ” which would have been less misunderstood. Because Some have assumed that this clause refers to the second coming of Christ. But it does not fit the context or the meaning of this phrase. This reference to the Father refers to His eternal nature and is saying that the same One who now continually exists has always existed and will always exist. The Twentieth Century New Testament more accurately reads, “the Lord, the God who is, and who was, and who shall be, ” Revelation 1:8 Now verse 8 can be read one of two ways and most are inclined to read it the wrong way which creates a contradiction of Scripture. This is why people either apply the entire verse to the Lord God almighty or they apply it entirely to Christ. When you read it with the correct understanding there is no contradiction of Scripture anymore. Revelation 1:8 is just one of those verses that lost its clear meaning when it was translated from Greek to English. Please allow me to paraphrase this verse and you should then be able to see how it is supposed to be read and understood. Note that Jesus is actually speaking the entire verse and He is saying, “I am the Alpha and Omega,” and my Father who is the Lord God, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty declares this. ” With this correct understanding you should now be able to read Revelation 1:8 without seeing any apparent contradiction.

The explaination for I Am,
Solite3,johnw47
Note that the phrase “I am ” in John 8:58 comes from two Greek words “egō” and “eimi .” The Strong's Definitions are: “egō : “I” (only expressed when emphatic): - I, me. ” “eimi: I exist (used only when emphatic): - am, have been, X it is I, was. ” How would you expect Jesus to respond to this comment? “Then said the Jews unto him, You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham? ” John 8:57 Not knowing Jesus existed before Abraham, the Pharisees are saying how could you have seen Abraham because you are not yet 50 years old. Since the Greek words for “I am” also mean I exist or existed, what is the obvious translation and response from Christ who existed before Abraham? “Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. ” John 8:58 Or “Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I existed .” John 8:58 Both are valid translations and the majority of Bible translations agree with the last one in fact with good reason! So “I exist”, “I have been ” and “I was” are other possible translations which have all been used by various Bible translators for John 8:58 as well as elsewhere in the KJV. For example: ego eimi has been translated to “ I was ” in Luke 19:22 “ You knewest that I was (ego eimi) an austere man, ” It is also notable that the phrase ego eimi does not have any special meaning. It simply and most commonly just means “I am.” In the following examples Peter, Paul, Gabriel and Zacharias all said, “I am ” (ego eimi). But none of them were claiming to be God or without beginning. Luke 1:18 “And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am (ego eimi) an old man, ” Luke 1:19 “And the angel answering said unto him, I am (ego eimi) Gabriel, ” John 1:27 “He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am (ego eimi) not worthy to unloose. ” Acts 10:21 “Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am (ego eimi) he whom you seek: ” Acts 21:39 “Paul said, I am (ego eimi) a man which am a Jew of Tarsus,” Romans 7:14 “For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am (ego eimi) carnal,” In the following verse the blind man identifies himself by saying, ego eimi (I am). None of the Jews saw this man as declaring himself to be God. John 9:9 “Some said, This is he: others said , He is like him: but he said, I am (ego eimi) he.” Note that as per John 8:58, there is no predicate as the word “he” is added by the translators. Except for John 8:58, here are all the other verses where Jesus used the words ego eimi in the Gospels. Note that not one can be understood as Jesus claiming to be God, only the Son of God. Matthew 24:5, Mark 13:6, Luke 21:8 “I am Christ ”, John 8:24, 28, 13:19, 18:5, 6, 8, “I am he (Jesus) ,” Matthew 20:15 “I am good ,” Matthew 28:20 “I am with you always,” Mark 14:62 “Jesus said I am (the Son of God) ,” Luke 22:27 “I am among you as one who serveth ,” Luke 22:70 “You say that I am (the Son of God) ,” John 6:35, 48, 51 “I am the bread of life,” John 7:34, 12:26, 17:24, 14:3 “Where I am ,” John 8:12 “I am the light of the world ,” John 8:18 “I am the one that bear witness,” John 8:23 “I am from above,” and “I am not of this world ,” John 10:7, 9 “I am the door ,” John 10:11, 14 “I am the good shepherd,” John 11:25 “I am the resurrection,” John 14:6 “I am the way ,” John 15:1, 5 “I am the true vine,” John 17:14, 16 “I am not of the world ,” John 18:37 “Thou sayest that I am a king .” And so the meaning of the phrase ego eimi is governed by context and grammar, not by any special meaning. These words formed a phrase that was in very common use by Jews and Christians and in New Testament Scriptures in the first century. It was not the name of any deity, be it the God of the Bible or any other god. It was never understood by Jews or Christians as declaring one to be God. If it were understood that way, you can be certain that the Jews would have never applied it to themselves as they did so frequently! Christ simply used the present tense of the verb “to be,” and there is actually no proof in these words that he was alluding to the divine name of Exodus 3:14. More on this later. While it is not possible that the Jews would have seen Jesus claiming to be the Almighty God in John 8:58, we can be sure that Jesus meant one of the following things by the phrase “before Abraham came to be, I am (ego eimi). ” 1. “Before Abraham came to be, I have been.” 2. “I have been in existence before Abraham came to be. ” 3. “I existed before Abraham was born. ” (“ I was”; “I existed”; “I have been”) Note also that the words “I am” are present tense but Jesus is speaking of his existence in the past. By using the Greek word “prin” meaning “before”, Jesus places what He states next in the past tense, “before Abraham” came to be existing, and He then relates His own existence “before” Abraham's existence. Some translations treat the present tense verb (transliterated as “eimi”) in John 8:58 as a historical present, while other translators treat it as what some scholars call the progressive past (extending from the past to present). But some scholars say that the historical present is only used in narrative form, and claim that the words of Jesus in John 8:58 are not a narrative form. This however does not change the fact that the present tense verb is still used in a past tense context. Where is there any other scripture in the New Testament wherein modern translators used a present tense verb in a past tense context? It should be apparent that the “triune God” dogma has influenced most (but not all) Trinitarian translators to make an exception with John 8:58. The late A.T. Robertson who is considered to be one of the greatest Greek NT scholars that ever lived wrote the following concerning John 8:24 and 58: “That I am he (hoti ego eimi). Indirect discourse, but with no word in the predicate after the copula eimi. Jesus can mean either “that I am from above” (verse 23), “that I am the one sent from the Father or the Messiah” (7:18,28), “that I am the Light of the World” (8:12), “that I am the Deliverer from the bondage of sin” (8:28,31,36), “that I am” without supplying a predicate in the absolute sense as the Jews (Deuteronomy 32:39) used the language of Jehovah (cf. Isaiah 43:10 where the very words occur hina pisteusete--hoti ego eimi). ” And Jason BeDuhn, Ph.D, historian of religion and culture who is currently Professor of Religious Studies at Northern Arizona University wrote, “ A quick glance at Smyth's Greek Grammar reveals that what we are dealing with in John 8:58 is a well-known Greek idiom. The pertinent entry is in section 1885 on verb tenses, which states, “The present, when accompanied by a definite or indefinite expression of past time, is used to express an action begun in the past and continued in the present. The 'progressive perfect' is often used in translation. Thus, ...I have been long (and am still) wondering.” I think you can see immediately that this entry applies to John 8:58, where the present verb eimi is accompanied by an expression of past time, prin Abraam gensthai. ” — (Truth In Translation Accuracy and Bias in English Translation of the New Testament , Jason BeDuhn, Ch. 10, Tampering With Tenses p.106)
Mark 13:6 “For many shall come in my name, saying, I am ( ego eimi) Christ ; and shall deceive many.” Luke 21:8 “And he said, Take heed that you be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am ( ego eimi) Christ ; and the time draweth near: go you not therefore after them. ” Matthew 24:5 “For many shall come in my name, saying, I am ( ego eimi) Christ; and shall deceive many. ”

Why Jesus is called God.
IS JESUS GOD? – PART 2 Why Did the Father Call His Son God? In Hebrews 1:1-9 we note that the speaker is God the Father and that He is addressing His Son and calling Him “God.” Verse 2 says that Christ was “appointed heir” of all things. An “HEIR” of course is someone who receives an “inheritance” from someone. In this case Christ the Son received an “INHERITANCE” from His Father. But what did He receive? His “NAME,” His authority and His power! In other words, Jesus being the one and only begotten Son of the living God received by virtue of His birth all of the attributes that His Father possessed. Verse 4 says, “Being made so much better than the angels, as he has by “INHERITANCE” obtained a more excellent “NAME” than they. ” Verse 8 says that this more excellent “ NAME” is the name “God,” which was given by the Father to His Son. “Unto the Son He [God] saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever. ” And so this name “He has by “INHERITANCE.” It is not a “NAME” that was bestowed but a “NAME” that was “INHERITED” from His Father. Christ not only inherited His name but other things as well. Name means authority (Mark 11:9, John 5:43), and it also means character and nature (Exodus 33:18-19, Exodus 34:5-6). The name Adam means human for example. When people have children, they not only inherit the name of their parents but they also inherit the nature of the parents, which of course is human nature. In like manner, Jesus inherited the same name as His Father, just as a child inherits the name of the parents, and He also inherits the nature of His Father, which is His divine nature. Christ also inherits His Father's life. “For as the Father has life in himself; so has he given to the Son to have life in himself. ” John 5:26 . If Jesus had always existed alongside the Father as the Trinity doctrine claims, then God could not have given life to His Son as He would have always had life. But Scripture reveals this is impossible. Thus there is only “ONE” true God. Jesus is “NOT” the God, He is the “Son of God.” He carries the “NAME” of God by virtue of His “INHERITANCE.” And because He is the Son of God, He is “EQUAL” with God. Note that Ellen G. White endorsed what this Adventist pioneer wrote below who also explains very clearly. “This name [God] was not given to Christ in consequence of some great achievement, but it is His by right of inheritance. Speaking of the power and greatness of Christ, the writer to the Hebrews says that He is made so much better than the angels, because “He hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.” Heb. 1:4. A son always rightfully takes the name of the father; and Christ, as “the only begotten Son of God,” has rightfully the same name. A son, also, is, to a greater or less degree, a reproduction of the father; he has, to some extent, the features and personal characteristics of his father; not perfectly, because there is no perfect reproduction among mankind. But there is no imperfection in God, or in any of His works; and so Christ is the “express image” of the Father's person. Heb. 1:3. As the Son of the self-existent God, he has by nature all the attributes of Deity. It is true that there are many sons of God; but Christ is the “only begotten Son of God,” and therefore the Son of God in a sense in which no other being ever was, or ever can be. The angels are sons of God, as was Adam (Job 38:7; Luke 3:38), by creation; Christians are the sons of God by adoption (Rom. 8:14,15); but CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD BY BIRTH. The writer to the Hebrews further shows that the position of the Son of God is not one to which Christ has been elevated, but that it is one which He has by right. ” — (E.J. Waggoner, CAHR , p. 11-12)

blueAgent:

blueAgent:

blueAgent:

ha ha ha, no wonder Agent, a no nothing has to stay away for days to find and copy all of that
i doubt any will read it all, let alone reply to a one of no understanding and confusion

Luk 23:9  Then he questioned with him in many words; but he answered him nothing.
^^^ Jesus didn't continue to reply to a sewer mouth false accuser of no understanding either


beelzebubAgent, one of absolutely no understanding of the bible, or of anything for that matter:

1Co_14:33  For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Ecc_5:7  For in the multitude of dreams and many words there are also divers vanities: but fear thou God.

Mat_7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.