bears repeating:

johnw47: The Holy Spirit is God


God who is a Spirit, john 4:24, is the Father of Jesus Christ, and mary who is flesh is the mother of Jesus Christ
Jesus Christ is both God and man


Mat 1:20  But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

^^^ we know that Father God is the Father of Jesus Christ, and the above verse shows that the Holy spirit is the father of Jesus Christ
which = the Father is God - the Holy Spirit is God



and so God the Holy Spirit Fathered Jesus the Christ, who is God the Word, john 1:1, made flesh



^^^ Father is God, The Holy Spirit is God, The Word become Jesus Christ is God

johnw47:
The Holy Spirit is God

Mat 1:20  But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Janosky:

Wacky post.

lying pharisee™ Janosky/OneJ

if your false jw church had told you that the Holy Spirit is God you would believe it
but because the Bible shows the Holy spirit is God, and that goes against your false doctrines
you don't believe it and call it wacky, making God a liar.
you think nothing will come of it, but truly you will be judged on every blasphemous word that
has come out of your lying mouth, oh evil as can be false jw

Joh 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Father is King of kings and Lord of lords:
1Ti_6:15  Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

Jesus is King of kings and Lord of lords:
Rev_17:14  These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

these verses clearly show that Father and Jesus is King of kings and lord of lords
hence that Father and Jesus is God, as John also shows:

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 


blueAgent of no understanding copied and pasted others commentarys at great length, to try and show that those verses are lies. of course sewer mouth beelzebubAgent failed miserably

Joh 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Barristter07:

Apart from him means he was excluded from that statement, The Father was the agency that created him.[/b]Hence the Father was called an agent too - Romans 11:36

spend more time digesting post before you respond.
The statement of John said All things was made through the son and there was nothing made without him.

@ bolded, do you read what you write yourself? How can something be created without Christ when John clearly said apart from christ nothing made could have been made.
Even Romans 11vv36 expose watch tower


Take a look at it


Romans 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Romans said through him (God) are [b]ALL Things

The bible never said the father created all things through himself rather through Christ.

Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:


It shows that Christ is God because through Christ all things were made.

Romans 11vv36 is referring to the Trinity.

Barristter07:


Jesus creation was by the Father's agency ! So I ask: Why is the Father also called an agent if he didn't made anything ?

the father was never called an agent of creation.

Barristter07:


There is only one source NOT three, unless you mean all are same person, which isnt true - 1 Cor 8:6 says the Father is the source of all things .

So stop lying that Jesus is a source, that renders your interpretation of arche at Rev 3:14 as dead on arrival

all three persons of the Holy Trinity played distinct roles as the agent of creation, your objection is dead on arrival.
Arche can be interpreted in a number of ways go back to my previous post but the most suitable interpretation is that Jesus is the beginning or the source of God's creation which means agent or the one who cause creation to be.

blueAgent:



IS JESUS GOD? – PART 1
Does John 1:1 say Jesus is God?
John 1:1 says, “(a) In the beginning was
the Word, (b) and the Word was with [the]
God, (c) and the Word was God. ”
That this Divine Word is none other than
Jesus Christ is shown by verse 14, “And
the Word was made flesh, and dwelt
among us, (and we beheld his glory, the
glory as of the only begotten of the
Father,) full of grace and truth. ”
John 1:1a says the Word was in the
beginning, but the beginning of what? It
has to be the beginning of something.
Was it the beginning of this world? Was
it the beginning of the creation of the
angels? Whichever beginning you place
it at, it has to be the beginning of
something.
Many Trinitarians use this to say that
Christ has always been, and had no
beginning. But that is not what the verse
says. God had no beginning and has
always existed! Also the Word “with” has
to mean something. The Word was
“with” God. They cannot be the same
being, or one could not be with the other.
As John 1:2 NIV says, “He [Jesus] was
with God in the beginning. ”
The proper rendering of John 1:1 into
English from the original Koine Greek
text continues to be a source of vigorous
debate among Bible translators, and
especially the phrase the Word was God
(c). The first verse of John's Gospel
says that God's Son Christ Jesus, being
referred to as the Word here, was with
God in the beginning, (a+b). John 1:1b
does not say that the Messiah is God
but was with “the” God. It is important to
note that the word “the” exists in the
Greek text and was left out by
translators as they probably thought it
read wrong, but it is correct and has
purpose. Here is the original Greek text
for (1b).
και and 2532 CONJ ο the 3588 T-NSM λογος
Word 3056 N-NSM ην was 2258 V-IXI-3S
προς with 4314 PREP τον the 3588 T-ASM
θεον God 2316 N-ASM
The phrase “the God” identifies the one
true God the Father in this verse and so
the word “the” is important. While Jesus
is called God in this verse, there is a
clear distinction between Him and “the”
God whom He was with. The God whom
Jesus was with is “the” God the Father.
Jesus was not the same God He was
with but rather Jesus was God in the
sense of being divine just like His Father,
as being the Son, He inherits the
characteristics of His Father. The Father
is God and so His Son is God by nature
just as any human by inheritance
possesses the very nature and form of
humanity.
One can better understand John 1:1 by
using the same grammatical structure
but with different subjects such as
Adam and Eve for example. “In the
beginning was the woman, and the
woman was with [the] human, and the
woman was human. ” Adam is “the
human ” and the woman is Eve, but Eve is
also human by nature but Eve is not “the
human ” in identity. They are two
separate persons.
Look at this again with this perspective
in mind. “In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with the Deity, and the
Word was Deity. ” The Word, the Son was
with the supreme Deity the Father, and
the Word was Deity in nature. But the
Son was not “the” Deity, the Son was not
“the” Father, yet the Son has the Father's
divine nature by inheritance. The Word
has the same God quality, the same
divine nature and the same God-ness as
His Father.
Thus Jesus was with God in the
beginning, but He is not “the” God the
Father but God by inheritance and nature
being the Son. He is God because He is
the Son of God. It is that simple.
“Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.
He was begotten, not created. HE IS OF
THE SUBSTANCE OF THE FATHER, SO
THAT IN HIS VERY NATURE HE IS GOD;
and since this is so “it pleased the Father
that in him should all fullness dwell.” Col.
1:19 ... While both are of the same
nature, the Father is first in point of time.
He is also greater in that he had no
beginning, while Christ's personality had
a beginning. ” — (E.J. Waggoner, ST , April
8, 1889)

I dont know why you are still writing long epistle.
Jesus and God has same nature that makes him truly God.

.

solite3:
spend more time digesting post before you respond.
The statement of John said All things was made through the son and there was nothing made without him.

@ bolded, do you read what you write yourself? How can something be created without Christ when John clearly said apart from christ nothing made could have been made.
Even Romans 11vv36 expose watch tower

U use apart from when making an Exception.

Christ was excluded from things Created through his agency, hence apart from him . or in other words, If u remove him ,



Why was he removed ? Because the Father was his own agency hence the EXCEPTION .

Take a look at it


Romans 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Romans said through him (God) are ALL Things

The bible never said the father created all things through himself rather through Christ.

Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:


It shows that Christ is God because through Christ all things were made.

Romans 11vv36 is referring to the Trinity.

I know the highlighted is where you will pitch your tent, because if that verse should refer to the Father, You are in TROUBLE.

What are the Facts ?

Paul was reffering to the same person he was describing at verse 35



35
“Or who has given him anything
that he may be repaid?”
36
For from him and through him and for him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.


Jesus was GIVEN authority , THAT clearly point put that the person above isn't Jesus, the person Paul was speaking Has never been given anything by anyone . Jesus would Even return the Kingdom to his God and Father , A pay back.

Do you now accept Romans 11:36 is a reference to the Father ?

Yes . ( then What was made through his agency ?

Even Heb 2:10 proved the Father was an agent , What was made through his agency ? That's the real question

solite3:
all three persons of the Holy Trinity played distinct roles as the agent of creation, your objection is dead on arrival.

There is only one single source - The Father ( 1 Cor 8:6 )

Arche can be interpreted in a number of ways go back to my previous post but the most suitable interpretation is that Jesus is the beginning or the source of God's creation which means agent or the one who cause creation to be.

Proven again and again, Jesus is not source, its either the Father is source or Jesus . both cannot be source . and we know its the Father .


We are left with " beginning of Gods CREATION "

Beginning of Creation means first ( begin, starting ) person created. As God start to create he was the first or beginning AMONG Gods creation.

solite3:
the father was never called an agent of creation.

Heb 2:10. says Through the Father


What was created by his agency ? The real question

.

solite3:
I dont know why you are still writing long epistle.
Jesus and God has same nature that makes him truly God.

Jesus is God by inheritance.
Hebrews 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
So you can see that his own godship or nature was inherited from his father, he can not be Co-equal with his father.

solite3:
all three persons of the Holy Trinity played distinct roles as the agent of creation, your objection is dead on arrival.
Arche can be interpreted in a number of ways go back to my previous post but the most suitable interpretation is that Jesus is the beginning or the source of God's creation which means agent or the one who cause creation to be.

Define source ? Seems you ran out of points hence the repetition. Again, Jesus isn't the source of creation .

My question again : Heb 2:10 says the Father was an agent , for which creation ?

solite3:
I dont know why you are still writing long epistle.
Jesus and God has same nature that makes him truly God.

NL FRAUD Pharisees don't you have the nature of your father ?
Does it ,by any stretch of your imagination make you your father....?

John17:3, Jesus says his Father is the " ONLY TRUE God."
You are NOT on the same page with Jesus.
Jesus words won't reset your mumu brain because you have rejected his words.

Barristter07:


Define source ? Seems you ran out of points hence the repetition. Again, Jesus isn't the source of creation .

My question again : Heb 2:10 says the Father was an agent , for which creation ?

according to your interpretation of heb 2vv10 and Romans 11vv36 all things was created through the father right?

Janosky:

NL FRAUD Pharisees don't you have the nature of your father ?
Does it ,by any stretch of your imagination make you your father....?

John17:3, Jesus says his Father is the " ONLY TRUE God."
You are NOT on the same page with Jesus.
Jesus words won't reset your mumu brain because you have rejected his words.

Nothing to hold hence the insult
Jesus is God Almighty your creator denying him makes you just like the atheist

solite3:

Nothing to hold hence the insult
Jesus is God Almighty your creator denying him makes you just like the atheist

How can Jesus be the Almighty and still be called Son?
Is like me having a son called Mr A and I told the world that i have a Son who is Mr A, eye witnesses also confirm the fact that I am the father of Mr A.

But the only ones disputing that am not the father are trinitarians who think they know me and my son better than I do.
Is it not weird that Trinitarians will ignore over 100 scriptures that say God is the father of Jesus and Jesus is the son, just to promote a doctrine that has no scriptural or divine backing.

solite3:
I dont know why you are still writing long epistle.
Jesus and God has same nature that makes him truly God.

Psalms 2:1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, 2:3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. 2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision. 2:5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. **

2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. ***

2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. 2:10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.


In verses 6 and 7 God calls Jesus his son and also informs us that on a certain day Jesus was BEGOTTEN.

Tell me what is difficult here for trinitarians to comprehend?

Barristter07:


U use apart from when making an Exception.

Christ was excluded from things Created through his agency, hence apart from him . or in other words, If u remove him ,



Why was he removed ? Because the Father was his own agency hence the EXCEPTION .

lie lie™ barrister

you are twisting-changing God's word to try and show that the Father created without the Word

you also have a problem with the word "through"

Rom 11:36  For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

in this instance and because other verses show that Father and the word created all, it means the same as "from"
all things are through the Father, all things are through Christ




the word created all things:
Joh 1:3  All things were made by him(the word); and without him was not any thing made that was made.

^^^ that verse also shows that the Word, who made everything that was made, cannot be made Himself

Father and Jesus Christ created all things:
Eph 3:9  And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

all things are from the Father, all things are from Jesus Christ:
1Co 8:6  But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

^^^ that verse also shows that Father and Jesus Christ is the one God, the one Lord, like john 1:1 also shows

Lord Jesus created the heavens and the earth:
Heb 1:10  And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 

God created the heaven and the earth:
Gen 1:1  In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

^^^ God created the heaven and the earth, Lord Jesus created the heaven and the earth

Father and the Word made man:
Gen_1:26  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness



they are just some of very many bible verses showing that Father and the Word created all things

the verses show that Father and the Word created everything
the verses show God created everything

the verses are not just showing that Father and the word created all things
but they are also showing that Father and the Word is God:

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.





lie lie barrister, you are truly blinded and love to twist - change God's word, making God a liar
you of course will pay greatly for that

2Co_4:4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Joh 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

solite3:

Nothing to hold hence the insult
Jesus is God Almighty your creator denying him makes you just like the atheist

You have proved that you're worse than atheists.
They don't pretend they believe in Jesus, unlike Solite3 Pharisees, a FRAUD Christian who rejects John17:3 ,the spoken words of Jesus Christ.

John17:3, Jesus Christ "your creator" says his Father is the " ONLY TRUE God."

You are NOT on the same page with
Jesus. That's the bitter truth. Deal with it.

solite3:
according to your interpretation of heb 2vv10 and Romans 11vv36 all things was created through the father right?

Yes by virtue of his making Jesus himself . do u object to the Fact ?

( More pepper to your wounds is that, while Angels were made through Jesus, they were never called Jesus sons, nah, because all things including Jesus himself came from and through the Father, they are called the Fathers sons )

solite3:
all three persons of the Holy Trinity played distinct roles as the agent of creation, your objection is dead on arrival.
Arche can be interpreted in a number of ways go back to my previous post but the most suitable interpretation is that Jesus is the beginning or the source of God's creation which means agent or the one who cause creation to be.

If Jesus is the source, why are angels and other human creations not called Jesus sons??

johnw47:




lie lie™ barrister

you are twisting-changing God's word to try and show that the Father created without the Word

you also have a problem with the word "through"

Rom 11:36  For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

in this instance and because other verses show that Father and the word created all, it means the same as "from"
all things are through the Father, all things are through Christ




the word created all things:
Joh 1:3  All things were made by him(the word); and without him was not any thing made that was made.

^^^ that verse also shows that the Word, who made everything that was made, cannot be made Himself

Father and Jesus Christ created all things:
Eph 3:9  And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

all things are from the Father, all things are from Jesus Christ:
1Co 8:6  But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

^^^ that verse also shows that Father and Jesus Christ is the one God, the one Lord, like john 1:1 also shows

Lord Jesus created the heavens and the earth:
Heb 1:10  And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 

God created the heaven and the earth:
Gen 1:1  In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

^^^ God created the heaven and the earth, Lord Jesus created the heaven and the earth

Father and the Word made man:
Gen_1:26  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness



they are just some of very many bible verses showing that Father and the Word created all things

the verses show that Father and the Word created everything
the verses show God created everything

the verses are not just showing that Father and the word created all things
but they are also showing that Father and the Word is God:

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.





lie lie barrister, you are truly blinded and love to twist - change God's word, making God a liar
you of course will pay greatly for that

2Co_4:4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Joh 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

All things were through the Father , because he needed no agency to create Jesus who he used to made others .

And Mr Johnw74 , enough of the lies and twisting , Jesus is not the source , No one is called sons of Jesus . but Jesus himself and other angelic and human creations are sons of the Father .

Barristter07:

All things were through the Father ,

lie lie™ barrister, all things were through the Father and the Word, as shown
and of course you don't believe God's word:

Father and Jesus Christ created all things:
Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ

all things are from Father and Christ:
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

^^^ that verse also shows that Father and Jesus Christ is the one God, the one Lord, like john 1:1 also shows

Father and the Word made man:
Gen_1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness

Barristter07:
because he needed no agency to create Jesus who he used to made others .

Father didn't create Jesus, nothing was made that Jesus didn't make:

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him(the word); and without him was not any thing made that was made.

^^^ that verse also shows that the Word, who made everything that was made, cannot be made Himself

Barristter07:
And Mr Johnw74 , enough of the lies and twisting ,

laugh, show where i have said diffrently to the bible verses i have posted, oh false accuser like your daddy:
Rev 12:10  And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night

Barristter07:
Jesus is not the source ,

oh so confused false jw, the scriptures above show that Father created all things through Jesus

Barristter07:
No one is called sons of Jesus .

perhaps no one is called son's of the man(flesh) Jesus
but they are called son's of God, and Father and the word is God

Barristter07:
but Jesus himself and other angelic and human creations are sons of the Father .

Jesus is the only begotten Son, before He became flesh He is God the Word

confused twister lie lie barrister
1Co_14:33  For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

false jw's are of course as we know false prophets

Q. what is another name for A FALSE PROPHET
A. A FRAUD


false, phony, fraud, take your pick

johnw47:


perhaps no one is called son's of the man(flesh) Jesus
but they are called son's of God, and Father and the word is God
Jesus is the only begotten Son, before He became flesh He is God the Word

*** Romans 8:3
" For what the Law was powerless to
do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God
did by sending His own Son in the likeness
of sinful man, as an offering for sin. He thus
condemned sin in the flesh, "


Galatians 4:4
But when the time had fully come, God sent
His Son, born of a woman, born under the
Law,"

****
Romans8:3, Galatians 4:4,

"God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man,"
PROOF, God sent his own Son in the spiritual realm, before he was born of a woman in the likeness of men, on the earthly realm.

Johnw Pharisees FRAUD man.

blueAgent:


True, even the trinitarians cannot explain what they claim is the trinity.

100% Correct. They used their God given brain to pass Exam only but freeze their brains and senses to the truth.
God will tell them all what they did and they will be in absolute everlasting anguish.

Janosky:


*** Romans 8:3
" For what the Law was powerless to
do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God
did by sending His own Son in the likeness
of sinful man, as an offering for sin. He thus
condemned sin in the flesh, "


Galatians 4:4
But when the time had fully come, God sent
His Son, born of a woman, born under the
Law,"

****
Romans8:3, Galatians 4:4,

"God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man,"
PROOF, God sent his own Son in the spiritual realm, before he was born of a woman in the likeness of men, on the earthly realm.

Johnw Pharisees FRAUD man.

lying pharisee™ deceiver false jw Janosky/OneJ

big big fraud, God sent His own Son, oh so confused one
how does that show the son is not God, it shows the Son is not the Father, laugh
know nothing phony Janosky/OneJ who doesn't believe the multitude of scriptures showing Jesus is God
such a evil false jw, making God a liar
big confused mumu fraud

1Co_14:33  For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Auki:


100% Correct. They used their God given brain to pass Exam only but freeze their brains and senses to the truth.
God will tell them all what they did and they will be in absolute everlasting anguish.

trinity be in "absolute everlasting anguish" for saying like God's word say's
that Father is God, for saying like God's word say's that the Word come Jesus is God
for saying like God's word say's that the Holy Spirit is God

laugh, plenty of mumu's in this place

johnw47:


how does that show the son is not God, it shows the Son is not the Father, laugh

Romans 8:3
"God did by sending His own Son in the
likeness of sinful man,"....

Rev 3:2,5,12-14,21.
Mumu Johnw FRAUD man, God's son in the spiritual realm in heaven was sent to earth in the likeness of sinful man".


Your brain has been poluted with Trinity FRAUD.

Janosky:


Romans 8:3
"God did by sending His own Son in the
likeness of sinful man,"....

Rev 3:2,5,12-14,21.
Mumu Johnw FRAUD man, God's son in the spiritual realm in heaven was sent to earth in the likeness of sinful man".


Your brain has been poluted with Trinity FRAUD.

laughing, confused fraud lying pharisee™ Janosky/OneJ
Father God sent God the Word to become man, need the verses?

1Co_14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.