₦airaland Forum

Ishilove:
There's nothing anybody in this life can tell that will make me stop tithing. All these carnal arguments swayed me, until I got a divine revelation that reset my brain and now I NEVER miss a payment.

jesusjnr:
Good morning bro. I hope you are good?

jesusjnr:
The reason i asked you was because you were talking about freewill giving concerning the church, so are you saying that giving in the church according to you is not compulsory?

jesusjnr:
And that you can decide to give or not and still be free and no consequences?

jesusjnr:
Because if not, then the giving you're talking about is no different from tithes, because even tithes is not by force but a choice as people can also decide to give if they chose to or not.

jesusjnr:
And concerning your questions of the instructions Jesus gave, i believe they are necessary for any one to enter into the kingdom of God, and it doesn't necessarily mean that they must live or give everything physically as you stated, but they must live or give everything at least mentally in obedience to God's Word just as Abraham had done in thr respect of Isaac without having to lose him physically.

So that instruction Jesus gave was meant for everyone who wanted to enter into the Kingdom of God to obey otherwise no entry. And that ought to be the standard for the church.

I believe that proved very factorial in the attitude and orientation of the first churchers who didn't behave as if they had anything of their own, which also reflected in their giving.

Thanks and God bless.

Larryallovernig:
Deuteronomy 14:22-29 New International Version (NIV)


Tithes


22 Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. 


23 Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and olive oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the Lord your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the Lord your God always. 


24 But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the Lord your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the Lord will choose to put his Name is so far away), 


25 then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the Lord your God will choose. 


26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice. 


27 And do not neglect the Levites living in your towns, for they have no allotment or inheritance of their own.


28 At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year’s produce and store it in your towns, 


29 so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the foreigners, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.

OkCornel:
Thanks bro, enjoying the sunshine this blessed Sunday. How's it going at your end?


Freewill giving towards the things of God, and to help one's neighbor is inevitable for anyone who claims to love God and his neighbor. Anything outside of this is just lip service...A good example is these scenarios James mentioned his letter;

James 1 v 27;
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

James 2 v 15-17;
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.




You know what the son of man used as the basis to separate the sheeps from the goats in Matthew 25 v 31-46. Giving to help others (the least of the brethren) in need. Direct assistance.



I would have put tithing and freewill giving in the same category if and only if;
1) I can get scriptural references to where God specifically requested for money as tithes.
2) Where Gentile believers practised tithing in the early church like the Judaizers did.
3) If the mammonic peddlers of this monetary tithing doctrine can stop pouring old wine in new wine skin by insisting those who don't practice monetary tithing (which God never instructed anyways) are under the curse of the devourer. A covenant no gentile believer ever swore to be under


I'll be back to reply this, gotta attend to something asap

Area4Area:
Pastors would never tell their congregation about this.

Of the 12 sons of Israel, only the children of Levi were not given any land because every male was elevated to priesthood and they are the ones that the tithes were given which in turn the y and the giver takes it to the house of God, when you ask some Christians if their pastors are the sons of Levi, they'd start staring at you as if what you asked them was blasphemous.

Refer to Exodus 30 v 13-16 for where God gave the instruction through Moses;

13 This shall every man give, that goeth into the number, half a shekel, after the [a]shekel of the Sanctuary: (a shekel is twenty gerahs) the half shekel shall be an offering to the Lord.
14 All that are numbered from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering to the Lord.
15 The rich shall not pass, and the poor shall not diminish from half a shekel, when ye shall give an offering unto the Lord, for the redemption of your lives.
16 So thou shalt take the money of the redemption of the children of Israel, and shalt put it unto the use of the Tabernacle of the Congregation, that it may be a memorial unto the children of Israel before the Lord, for the redemption of your lives.

Refer to Deuteronomy 14 v 22-29;

22 Thou shalt give the tithe of all the increase of thy seed, that cometh forth of the field year by year.
23 And thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God (in the place which he shall choose to cause his Name to dwell there) the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstborn of thy kine, and of thy sheep, that thou mayest learn to fear the Lord thy God always.
24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it, because the place is far from thee, where the Lord thy God shall choose to set his name, when the Lord thy God shall bless thee,
25 Then shalt thou make it in money, and take the money in thine hand, and go unto the place which the Lord thy God shall choose.
26 And thou shalt bestow the money for whatsoever thine heart desireth: whether it be ox, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatsoever thine heart desireth: and shalt eat it there before the Lord thy God, and rejoice, both thou, and thine household.
27 And the Levite that is within thy gates, shalt thou not forsake: for he hath neither part nor inheritance with thee.
28 At the end of three years thou shalt [e]bring forth all the tithes of thine increase of the same year, and lay it up within thy gates.
29 Then the Levite shall come, because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee, and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, and shall eat, and be filled, that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

Morocco8047:
see below

spirul77:
I am not for or against tithing o but what I'm curious to know is, was Christianity not introduced to us by Europeans? I was speaking with a female pastor of a Pentecostal church from Poland and she told me they don't pay tithe because it's Old Testament and they only pay offering, so it got me wondering........do we now know the Bible more than the people that introduced it to us?

OkCornel:
Lol, and you know the funny thing, when God requested for money, God was specific on how money should be raised to maintain the temple. God never requested for money as tithe, see my next post on this thread.

Area4Area:
That is the point, even today the Jews don't give tithes again.

After the destruction of the temple and children of Israel had to scatter all over the known world, records in the temple were destroyed in AD 70, nobody knew who a son of Levi was anymore therefore the Israelites don't know who to give the tithes to and that Jewish tradition died naturally.

Today pastors have assumed the role of the sons of Levi when they are not even Jews to start with.

OkCornel:
Meanwhile...
When pro-tithers are ready to show us where God specifically mentioned money as part of the items to be tithed, then they should know that monetary tithing is unscriptural.

When God required money for the needs of the Temple, He specifically mentioned where all Israelite males should be levied a temple tax of half a shekel every year. That was an instance of God clearly asking for money.




BASED ON THE ABOVE, IT WAS CLEAR WHEN GOD ASKED FOR MONEY TO MAINTAIN THE TEMPLE... NOW LET US EXAMINE GOD'S REQUIREMENT FOR TITHES



Based on the above verses, God clearly mentioned what is titheable, and money was not part of the items to be tithed.

IN CONCLUSION:
So any fraudster that comes with the excuse that money was not in use because the Israelites were predominantly farmers and cattle rearers...should read Exodus 30 v 13-16 and explain to us why God demanded money from these same Israelites...but specified crops and livestock as tithes in Deuteronomy 14 v 22-29;

Also, I'll be waiting for scriptural references where God made tithing mandatory for gentiles as well.

clemzo101:
you have said it all, moreover not everyone is a farmer or cattle rearer, we had teachers, lawyers, physicians, and many others that probably earn money as salary, why was there no record of these set of people paying tithe

Okwyjesus:
Who made you a judge over God's people

Pauldollars:
One of your duties as a Christian is to make sure you always give your tithes and God will bless you abundantly (Read Malachi 3:10) How the money is being used by the Church should not be your concern. BTW it is good that you give your tithes in the church that spiritually nourishes you...not just any random Penterascal church which have no business propagating the gospel of Jesus Christ.

kimco:
I did...i made myself judge over evil deeds...

OkCornel:
I only know of spirit led freewill giving (from a cheerful heart) not pegged at any particular percentage of one's earnings as the basis for giving under the new covenant.

2 Corinthians 9 v 7;
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Acts 4 v 34-35;
34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.


That being said, I'm still awaiting
1) Scriptural examples of gentile believers that tithed in the new covenant
2) I'm awaiting where God changed the standard of tithing from agro-produce as clearly stated in Deuteronomy 14 v 22-29, into money the wolves in shepherd's clothing are currently soliciting for.

jesusjnr:
IS TITHING NOW A BAD THING BECAUSE MEN ABUSE TITHES?

---

No! Because tithing wasn't a bad thing to Jesus.

For Jesus said:

Matthew 23:23 (KJV)

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

So this saying clearly shows that Jesus the Master Himself wasn't against tithing, but what He was against was the tendency of the Pharisees to omit or sideline the majors of the Law such as judgment, mercy, and faith because of a minor matter as tithing.

So that is exactly where I also stand on the tithing matter, that it never get emphasized to the point where it begins to take preeminence over the most important things, because that would inevitably lead to abuse of tithes, amongst other corrupt practices, which the majors are meant to prevent.

Therefore I'm not against tithing as some here may have wrongly assumed, because as a matter of fact I believe that tithing works, and I have some personal experiences while I still tithed and preached tithing to back that claim.

Tithing somehow seemed to be the first revelation from my own study of the Bible, after I first repented and began my walk with God. I was so convinced about it to the extent that I couldn't keep it to myself but had to preach it to someone then, and that person was my mum. And my preaching was appeared convincing enough for her to give it a shot. And it worked for her as afterwards she kept telling me that ever since she started tithing, that she noticed that her purse never dried up. So the idea of tithing really proved itself to her that up til date about twenty years later, she doesn't still joke with her tithes.

Another experience associated with tithes, was one testimony I already shared here when I still used to tithe many years ago, but at the time it was sixty percent I gave as tithes not ten. My tithe was at the side pocket of my traveling bag, when some armed robbers invaded the room I was with five other guys. At the end, everyone in the room was robbed of some money and valuables, except for me for nothing belonging to me was lost or taken from me, even though the side pocket I kept the tithes was the most exposed thing in the wardrobe that the robbers took most things from.

The full story can be gotten here:

https://www.nairaland.com/5478528/one-important-lesson-church-members

So I do really believe that tithing works, however I don't believe that tithing (ten percent) ought to be the standard of the church, which I believe ought to operate at the standard of the kingdom of God which is a hundred percent as was illustrated on this occasion:

Acts 4:32, 34-35 (KJV)

32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

Hence it could observed that giving in the church that Jesus built wasn't at the level of tithes (ten percent), but a hundred percent which is the standard of the kingdom of God. And this was why Jesus had taken His time to acknowledge that poor widow who gave her everything before His disciples, because that was the standard of the kingdom of God.

Mark 12:43-44 (KJV)

43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

So a hundred percent ought to be the standard of the church as it was in the beginning of the church when they had already given a hundred percent of themselves to God, so that meant everything they possessed already belonged to God, hence no one considering what he possessed as his own. But considering that the standard of the church has crashed and is now a far cry from what it used to be at the time when it was a hundred percent, does that now mean that those who are not able to give God a hundred percent, should not give Him anything?

That's where tithes (ten percent) comes in, at least that's better than giving God zero percent.

So that men abuse tithes, doesn't mean that we should altogether throw away the idea of tithing, because it is still very useful and plays an important role for God's work here on Earth. It has also shown itself to be very useful in provide for the poor and needy when not abused but well managed.

Therefore instead of doing away with tithing, i suggest we all put our hands on deck to ensure that church leaders and those in authority are held accountable for the tithes they receive, so that the mismanagement and abuse of tithes would be brought down to the bearest minimum if not completely eradicated, while we hope and pray for the day that God would give us the kind of church that would give him the hundred percent that He deserves, and also the kind of leaders that wouldn't abuse it but would use it to God's glory and to the benefit of everyone in the church as it was in those days.

NEITHER WAS THERE ANY AMONG THEM THAT LACKED: FOR AS MANY AS WERE POSSESSORS OF LANDS OR HOUSES SOLD THEM, AND BROUGHT THE PRICES OF THE THINGS THAT WERE SOLD,
AND LAID THEM DOWN AT THE APOSTLES' FEET: AND DISTRIBUTION WAS MADE UNTO EVERY MAN ACCORDING AS HE HAD NEED. {Acts 4:34-35 (KJV) }

God bless.

grossintel:
You will eventually let the house to someone if you keep searching, telling God you'll give him money in exchange is nonsense, promising God you'll help someone in need sounds good. That's what he wants you to do, not giving the money to a pastor who doesn't need it. I don't care, I was a worker in the church for 4 years, I go to church 6 times a week, I saw the evil the pastors do there and how they mismanage church funds. His wife doesn't even cook, I used to go to buy food for them from Kilimanjaro, sometimes they even trash the food without touching it. Very wasteful people!

grossintel:
You will eventually let the house to someone if you keep searching, telling God you'll give him money in exchange is nonsense, promising God you'll help someone in need sounds good. That's what he wants you to do, not giving the money to a pastor who doesn't need it. I don't care, I was a worker in the church for 4 years, I go to church 6 times a week, I saw the evil the pastors do there and how they mismanage church funds. His wife doesn't even cook, I used to go to buy food for them from Kilimanjaro, sometimes they even trash the food without touching it. Very wasteful people!

alozie1985:
Hello nairalanders!!!

OkCornel:
Thanks bro, enjoying the sunshine this blessed Sunday. How's it going at your end?


Freewill giving towards the things of God, and to help one's neighbor is inevitable for anyone who claims to love God and his neighbor. Anything outside of this is just lip service...A good example is these scenarios James mentioned his letter;

James 1 v 27;
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

James 2 v 15-17;
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.




You know what the son of man used as the basis to separate the sheeps from the goats in Matthew 25 v 31-46. Giving to help others (the least of the brethren) in need. Direct assistance.



I would have put tithing and freewill giving in the same category if and only if;
1) I can get scriptural references to where God specifically requested for money as tithes.
2) Where Gentile believers practised tithing in the early church like the Judaizers did.
3) If the mammonic peddlers of this monetary tithing doctrine can stop pouring old wine in new wine skin by insisting those who don't practice monetary tithing (which God never instructed anyways) are under the curse of the devourer. A covenant no gentile believer ever took an oath to be under and be bound by the blessings and curses of such a covenant.


Look at the bigger picture, nothing whatsoever should come between you and God. Not desire for temporary wealth.

Now take a look at that rich fellow that boasted to Jesus he kept all the laws, and what extra must he do? When Jesus adviser he should sell off all he had. Look at his reaction, it merely shows his desire for temporary wealth still outweighed the love he had for God.

Personally, money has never been a problem for me. With or without money, I have that assurance my needs are always going to be met (especially when the Holy Spirit guides me on how to put my talents to use and what time). But for some people, money and possessions is where they put their trust and security in.

emmmillenium:
Tithe Tithe Tithe......what is tithe? 10% of your profit as they used to say....

What is tithe.... A law given to the Jews under the old covenant...

We have several laws under old testament, only tithe was highly exalted in our days now...

In old testament, is there anyone who paid 20%, 30%, 60% and so on as some men of God claim today

Or is there a law in new testament that commands believers to pay 20%,30% while d least is pegged at 10%,

I am just thinking out loud, If I decide to pay 30% ds month and I pay just 2% next month....am I wrong for paying 2%.....?


Must the law of moses [including tithe] be obeyed in order to be righteous before God or by simply putting our truth in Jesus

Gal 2:21 NLT

I do not treat the grace of God as meaningless. For if keeping the law could make us right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die.
Galatians 2:21 NLT

@jesusjnr,

I perceive you have a good heart and you wish the world knows d truth which is God's word, at the same time, we have to be careful not to teach what we think is right but what bible teaches.

The so called men of God and G.Os have turned bible upside down for us. And because of much reverence we have for them, they have loaded our mind with all manner of teaching that come from human wisdom and not from Christ himself.

Col 2:8

Don’t let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.
Colossians 2:8 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/col.2.8.NLT

I pray God will visit ds country again and deliver his people from the shackles of wrong teachings. He will take away the pastors of mammon and load the pulpit with men that will prepare God's people for heaven with undiluted word of God.

@jesusjnr, I wish I have your WhatsApp number for us to be robbing minds together...you can inbox me ur number on eaabankole@gmail.com

Area4Area:
Pastors would never tell their congregation about this.

Of the 12 sons of Israel, only the children of Levi were not given any land because every male was elevated to priesthood and they are the ones that the tithes were given which in turn the y and the giver takes it to the house of God, when you ask some Christians if their pastors are the sons of Levi, they'd start staring at you as if what you asked them was blasphemous.

OkCornel:
Lol, and you know the funny thing, when God requested for money, God was specific on how money should be raised to maintain the temple. God never requested for money as tithe, see my next post on this thread.