healthserve:




" Posture" . There's a rank in the psychic/spirit realm where arrogance is well, permitted to an extent. Not easy being a walking immortal... Amongst mortals. . This realm, the energy is pure white, not even negative or positive. White energy is the peak... Perhaps another lifetime. As my time here is up mate

shackwack2000:


Bla Bla Bla. you were responding to facts earlier. Once you noticed you had no response to valid points raised about slavery and genocide clearly evident in the Bible, you started mincing words. Why don't you reply to the points raised? Mr White (Heisenberg)

healthserve:




Ouch. If you have rationalisations I'll be glad to engage you

shackwack2000:


Deepsight made the points below especially about the responsibility of God in regards to errors by Man and the Devil but you ignored. DO you think God is responsible for human errors and Evil if he was omniscient and knew what they would do even before creating them? If you buy an app on your phone and it malfunctions do you blame the app or the developer?


If God is the creator of humans, human errors are the responsibility of God.

. . . God will never sit down and would even die from exhaustion and the whole creation him.

Can God die? I trust you mean this in a sarcastic and metaphorical way.

Even Newton theoriticized action and effects are directly proportional

What human actions account for natural disasters such as Earthquakes or Tsunamis? Or droughts which led to famine in the past?

Let's let God be please. Its the devil that damaged the world not God.

Well, if God created this Devil, God is also responsible for its deeds, particularly if you believe that God is omniscient.

And God isn't to be blamed for creating us all.

Why? Does the concept of responsibility not apply to God?
God is not responsible for God's deeds? If so, please let me understand why.

Show some respect

Do you think that God requires respect?

As a man who's company had crashed with lots of money lost, I knew my wrongs and improved on them. I didn't look up to blame God.;

Good on you - and thats the right path - nevertheless I trust you are aware that there are tragedies in the world which no human action or deed could have triggered or stopped?

k4kenny:
[/b]

What principles is your God sticking to?

Islam never stated we were created perfect, perhaps you misunderstood whoever told you. What Islam states is we were all born with a natural disposition (fitrah) to worship 1 God. But society changes this perspective as we grow. If you'll open your mind and search for the truth it'll come to you by the permission of Allah.

@bolded nothing is impossible for God, change that notion now!!!! In fact this is why I say our ideas of God are completely different. The biblical God rested after 7 days of creation, claims to be omnipresent, yet didn't know Adam had eaten from the tree, regretted creating humans . Regret means helplessness(what an insult), also needs a human sacrifice to forgive sins I can go on and on. You religion actually diminished the greatness of the Creator and you guys aren't paying attention.

simplesearch:
The difference between Christianity and other religion is not that of authenticity but validity. Not about which one is more authentic than the other but which one is the true way to God....

Jesus is the only way to God, and no matter where and what religion you are born in you can personally come to God through Jesus Christ the only way to God, there is no other way to God and you definitely can't come all alone by yourself. You need a mediator, an advocate, and that person is Jesus.

healthserve:




I'm engaged. And locked in



I didn't ignore. After perusing his context of his arguments. I say the mental standpoint of the commentator and noticed it was flawed and told pointed him to the context upon which all knowledge acquired is affected. Hence reading the Bible 2 billion times with the same mindset doesn't amount to anything... As its the context that needs to be fixed.... And not what pours out of the mould, but fixing he mould.

shackwack2000:
So i am asking you what you think about the culpability of God in regards to human errors and evil. If God is omniscient , he should have known about the issues with his creations even before creating them. Allowing it makes him culpable. What do you think?

DeepSight:


Our bodies are not perfect by any stretch of the imagination.
Very remarkable - but not perfect.

k4kenny:


What then would make it perfect? Name one part you'll add to make it perfect?

midnighter:

k4kenny:


Jesus is the only way to God? You people are just funny. So what happened to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses who came before Jesus? Where are they now?

Jesus never said anywhere in the bible that he's the only way to God. Name one verse in your bible where he said that. Most of your theology is not really backed up by the scriptures. You just take a verse and give it an entirely different meaning.

John 14:6

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

healthserve:




I'm engaged. And locked in



I didn't ignore. After perusing his context of his arguments. I say the mental standpoint of the commentator and noticed it was flawed and told pointed him to the context upon which all knowledge acquired is affected. Hence reading the Bible 2 billion times with the same mindset doesn't amount to anything... As its the context that needs to be fixed.... And not what pours out of the mould, but fixing he mould.


Now if God created man and assumes responsibilities for man's actions then God is responsible for man's error. But the possibility of man's choice leaves man's the bearer of his actions and consequences. Hence death being the consequence of man's fall will continue to have roll over effects from one generation to the other and thus, the aftermath of generational problems been the problem of man's actions and not God's doing or undoing

Man had no choice in regards to the event in the garden of Eden. Revelation 13:8 talks about the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world". So this means God knew man was going to fall even before he created the earth. I personally do not believe in the notion of free will as no one is able to take an independent action



You ask that I show some respect I respond by saying show God some. Now the consequences of sin at the prime time of humankind set the entire world on a different pedestal than it would have if man havmd walked the right path. So if faults exists in the tonal arrangement in the earth crusts and causes damage in Nigeria today for example and 2.4million people die.The action didn't occur when the earthquake occur but upon its inertia point when all things got triggered.

You keep blaming man for things a "Loving God" should have prevented. The inertia point you referred to when all this got triggered it way before man was created.



About events being stopped how can you trace the point where any action can be stopped when you can't accurately determine the beginning of any point in life. Before atom was the beginning, knowledge told us into atoms, where protons. And suboarticles even inside protons will ultimately all energy and mocelular life being pack of energy(Quantum Pysics), and with these beginning with a bang, the vibration impact of God's words against the unformed pre-existence

These sub particles have been futher broken down into quarks, leptons, bosons...(Standard Model) but i do not get how that plays into this discussion
Can i ask what the source of evil is?


So remind me what exactly is this discussion about?

mrollyB:


What happens when he said he was not sent to anybody, but to the lost sheep of israel. The Jews that he was as well. If he can say that by himself what else.

Acehart:
Another issue about creation is the seven day process which the Hebrew text gives. The translation for ”day“ is “Time period”. If you do some form of computer programming, you would know that a time period is never less than zero or greater than infinity. “Time period” is easily the most adjustable parameter and easily the most inconsequential parameter. 6 billion years is within a time period or seven time periods. But you have not gone to great lengths to know this. If God was silent about the time period size, a programmer will know why - it is inconsequential.

healthserve:



If you judge God wrong using "excerpts" of His own account of creation, can't you see you've missed it even before the cross examination starts? No matter how intelligent we are, we can't outwit a manufacturer's intelligence, trust me EVEN Google wouldn't outwit Microsoft on its innovations



To win God at a debate, you must use your own created context and not faulty - derivatives we have based on whatever cognitive vantage points we assume brother

There is no debate. I was only showing you how the Bible makes no sense in that regard. You see a problem eons ahead of time and instead of preventing the problem, you let it be then blame and suffer billions of your creation in eternal fire for no reason of theirs. The Bible fails on its own merit.


Also. If God created and said Jesus before the foundation of the world, would it be wrong that in His omniscience, He goes ahead and comes back to a point(creation point), to create a redemption point for man's wrongs. Man didn't fall from the consequence of lack of choice. No. It was actually from an expression of choice. That opened portals of devastation and destruction

shackwack2000:


Your analogy is like keeping a child in a room full of snakes(double pun intended) and instead of getting rid of the snakes(which you can) , you buy loads of Anitvenom to apply after the child get bitten. It beats me Phew.

shackwack2000:
Trust me i have searched and searched and i am still searching. The answer is not in a book. I have submitted that i may never find the answer but i will not settle for a flawed book out of fear.

The bible is imperfect and full of contradictions. If you really searched i will like to know how you resolve the apparent contradictions of not just the content but of God's characterisation in the Bible?.

God cannot be Omnisicent , Omnibelevolent and Omnipotent at the same time while the world is the way it is

midnighter:


This is great

mrollyB:


What happens when he said he was not sent to anybody, but to the lost sheep of israel. The Jews that he was as well. If he can say that by himself what else.

mrollyB:


What happens when he said he was not sent to anybody, but to the lost sheep of israel. The Jews that he was as well. If he can say that by himself what else.

WebSurfer:

Alot of you are not normal i swear

healthserve:




The slow liquidity forced me away for some years jare..

healthserve:



Show me the inconsistencies you've observed in the Bible let's talk about them. If you want us to discuss one week on this subject matter I'll entertain all your questions and try to provide answers to the best of my abilities.. (I don't know much/all things)


Sorry but your indiscretions, misgivings, inconsistencies, disagreement doesn't undermine whom God is.

Infact God doesn't receive people from fear. Infact fear is a sin punishable upon death by hell


Give yourself time. You won't find the answers once. I spent 25 years in my own search before I hit my realization point. Before you discard God, give Him the benefit of a doubt simple.


Give yourself time..

Acehart:


Hi. The contention about the existence of a HE- God has always been about the Creation, the beginning. Cain and Abel’s sacrifice was based on their belief about whether there was a HE-Creator or not. (Sorry for bringing up Biblical stuff. But on the two sides of the divide are those that do not believe there is a God through physical evidence against those who believe by listening to ‘word of mouth’).

“God is nature”, you said. “Nature is energy”, you said. Let’s go back to the first principles: an object will remain in a state of rest (until an imbalance) or perpetually move unless an equal force brings it to rest. (Newton’s First Law). I’d like to ask: why did creation stop? If an IT was responsible, logical reasoning says creation will be perpetual. If you would say that I am illogical for saying this: that the same energy at the initial point moved forward in time to resist what it started. [b]I believe you meant force and not energy. Which begs the logical question - If you start the creation of the Universe with an explosive BIG BANG don't you think it will take a counter BIG BANG in an opposing direction, initiated at a point in time and space to end it? Why do you think you have to move forward in time within the same BIG BANG to stop it? It is similar to stopping the full thrust forward movement of an aircraft carrier moving at 70knots with full reverse thrust of the propeller. The entire ship would shudder tremendously and there would be a lot of internal damage to propeller bearings and a lot of other mechanical parts, Propeller blades may even break off if they are made in China. Same damage goes for the damage which would be done to the Space-time fabric were this even scientifically possible Imagine the impact on the Aircrafts and Navy personnel as the would be throw away from their previous positions and imagine them as the solar systems and planetary bodies all thrown out of orbit. This CHAOS[Entropy] and not ORDER and this formula of your does not look anything like entropy[/b]. Then I’ll ask, “what is the result”? Zero. (Mx dot dot + kx dot + cx =0). Creation never existed or it is natural that what we call creation will end since IT energy is yet resist what IT started. PredatorX your postulation sounds like religion and not science. But we see that Creation stopped and something like a cyclic-sustaining factor is in the mix - there isn’t any energy equation in science with such a factor - there is nothing like a perpetual motion machine.

To make a wise conclusion, one must have full knowledge of a science and theology. Unfortunately, those who lean on science don’t know (Christian) theology but draw conclusions based on half-knowledge: Christianity is based on the gospels and not on the Jewish text: the Law of the Christians (not referring to the religion) is written in their heart: they have “no need“ for a book to know that they must:

1. Preserve the earth.
2. Sustain the earth.
3. Take what you need. Store the excess.
4. Love the Creator and do their best for his creation.

If you would have read the Christian scriptures, you would see that the Creator’s real intention was for men not to have a need for a teacher or a book but follow the rule of nature in his heart. Why then is there a book? (Well, I keep a dictionary because I forget words easily and I’ll always need it for reference and articulation)

Another issue about creation is the seven day process which the Hebrew text gives. The translation for ”day“ is “Time period”. If you do some form of computer programming, you would know that a time period is never less than zero or greater than infinity. “Time period” is easily the most adjustable parameter and easily the most inconsequential parameter. 6 billion years is within a time period or seven time periods. But you have not gone to great lengths to know this. If God was silent about the time period size, a programmer will know why - it is inconsequential.

Many men have no value. They are guilty of the same thing they accuse another for. Today he stands for something, tomorrow he fights against that same thing he would have died for previously. He covers one meter and he screams that he has covered the earth.

Happy Holidays.

WHY

englishmart:
I'm in the man who came for Deliverance had once gone to heaven. This is interesting

predatorX:




Do not limit yourself to this planet by believing creation has stopped. As i write, creation is still happening on a universal scale.

So you are right if you chose to be logical and reason along with me - You say creation should be perpetual, and i cannot agree more because you are very accurate. The same energy(the big bang) initiated by an IT that created all universes is still rapidly accelerating, thus expanding the fabric of space. But even though the fabric of space is expanding throughout the Universe - everywhere and in all directions - we aren't. Our atoms remain the same size. So do the planets, moons, stars, as well as the distances separating them. Even the galaxies in our Local Group aren't expanding away from one another; they're gravitating towards one another instead. WHY My answer: At this level, please throw away Isaac Newton and evolve to understanding Albert Einstein's proven theories of General and Special Relativities.

The first thing we have to understand is what our theory of gravity is, and how it differs from how you might think of it intuitively. Some like you think of space the way Newton did: as a fixed grid, with unchanging set of coordinates that you could place your masses down onto. But when Einstein came along, he recognized that this imaginary grid wasn't fixed, wasn't absolute and wasn't at all like Newton had imagined. Instead, this grid was like a fabric, and the fabric itself was curved, distorted and forced to evolve over time by the presence of matter and energy. Moreover, the matter and energy within it determined how this space-time fabric was curved.

The same energy that started it all, accelerates symmetrically away from the point of origin which explains the expanding universe. However, applying theory of relativity by assuming our position to be the center of creation(the big bang), you will see that there is no way you can go forward in time to stop the force of creation because if you try to jump time, your length contracts and you will appear to be squished in the space-time fabric. As all these are happening simultaneously, the universe is equally stretching away relative to the speed of your time jump and current position. It is impossible to catch up literally!!

Now you may wonder why this expansion is not widening the distance between the planets within our solar system or galaxy since space is elastic. Why is the distance between the Earth and the Sun constant, or the distance between the sun and other suns in our solar system constant. The answer is simple - Our Local gravity is stronger than the elasticity of space. Because the expansion of the Universe only has any effect where another force - whether gravitational, electromagnetic or nuclear - hasn't yet overcome it. If some force can successfully hold an object together, even the expanding Universe won't affect a change.

If you think time is inconsequential, please read up on space-time dilation and be enlightened that time is everything. It is because of time that we exist now and not in the dinosaur age when the earth was very inhospitable to human life-forms.

SO THE CREATOR WAS NOT SILENT ON TIME BECAUSE THE CREATOR ITSELF IS AN EMBODIMENT OF TIME AND SPACE. RATHER THEOLOGY AND RELIGION CANNOT COMPREHEND THE IDEA OF TIME ITSELF.

As for Point 3. Nothing was created in "EXCESS". Even the Oxygen that gives life to earth dwellers is just 21%. The concept of excess was conceived from the greedy mind of mankind because the creator never created anything in excess. But your religion says you should have your cake and eat it too. You would rather take your life's sustenance and store in your barnyard that which belongs to others.

Acehart:


I appreciate your response and I see the limit of your understanding. Einstein believed the problem of God was the "most difficult in the world"—a question that could not be answered "simply with yes or no." He conceded that, "the problem involved is too vast for our limited minds."

You have indicated your side of the divide. My side of the divide is not for the intelligent in the matters of everything. The best I can do is: stretched my hand across the divide to wish you the best in life and encourage you to give outstanding value wherever you find yourself.

Good morning.

phr0nesis:

That your mind is already made up

midnighter:


It doesnt make it incorrect either.

The fact that people are born Hindus and may be disqualified from Heaven because they dont know Christ doesnt negate the truth of the Cross.

This is why people are so desperate to explain it to them.

englishmart:
Whatever truth it is that can't be proven. Regardless, Happy New year