Olu317:
I have posted a book written by Susan Blier, who's a Professor in Harvard University. So,there is no reason to disregard the bitter truth. In fact, She is a renowned African historian. Kindly download her books and oral history of Odudua and his group so that you can understand it.

Sebonc

What's the name of the book?

I haven't gone through your posts to know exactly where you mentioned sources.

Oral history of Odudua - is that a book or could you specify what you mean.

tpiar:
I haven't been on the Yoruba herbal group on nl, does that mean I'm not Yoruba.

Ok, let me think about joining them before they herbal me.

I didn't mentioned as regard this herbal group stuff but the man who kept saying some of us are not grounded in Yoruba knowledge or Yoruba Court! Bro, it is a choice to join on your path but to a man who sees himself as having knowledge more than everyone else on this platform,without a even understanding Semitic language,which he bitterly contexts against is calles who ? Help me explain to him that once one has no knowledge as he is and as you too,then no need to make noise on it. Instead, such should study to understand, rather making mockery of self.

tpiar:


What's the name of the book?

I haven't gone through your posts to know exactly where you mentioned sources.

Oral history of Odudua - is that a book or could you specify what you mean.

There are many book written on this from even Professor Sabiru Biobaku, when he was a Phd holder. Even, ‘Ileife, The birth place of Yoruba by Sussan Blier. So also, Kings, Crowns, and Rights of Succession: Obalufon Arts at Ife and Other Yoruba Centers Suzanne Preston Blier.
Download the pdf to get a glimpse of these knowledge.

Olu317:
Yes, they came with their language. Read from:

Kings, Crowns, and Rights of Succession: Obalufon Arts at Ife and Other Yoruba Centers Suzanne Preston Blier ....

She says, ‘Not surprisingly, the orig- inal inhabitants of Ife do not appear to have supported this foreigner, "Odudua," in his attempts to gain control of the city.20 This foreign ruler was, however, by all accounts a strong and politically effective leader. One of his most important decisions was to establish a series of marriage alliances with the local populace. Accordingly, both he and his party mar- ried indigenous women "of the land," in order to create a new generation of Ife residents who, in Idowu's words (p. 24), "... . would be at home in both worlds . . . people who were without bitterness towards either of the opposing parties." In the course of these marriages, the new ruler fa- thered a number of children, many of whom eventually set out to found their own dynasties in other Yoruba states. On "Odudua's" death, one of his sons, Obalufon I (Og- bogbodirin), succeeded him to the throne. Obalufon I's reign appears to have been beset with problems. Unlike his father, "Odudua," he was a weak ruler'.

I know you are retarded and I don't expect you to think analytically but for the sake of others I will say this here

When you read a historical text, you think of its implications and you ask yourself "what exactly is this text trying to teach" before posting it as if it buttresses your point

From the excerpt a few things can be noted but the points relevant to this discussion are
1. Oduduwa was foreign to Ilé-Ifè
2. Ife had people already settled and established
3. Oduduwa and his party married into the local population

Now comparing the text to your assertions and claims of yoruba origin
1. where in this text does it remotely imply that oduduwa spoke a foreign language or that he imposed his language on the ife people?
2. Where in the text is it remotely implied that oduduwa was a semitic man from the middle East?
3. Where in this excerpt is Oduduwa's origin even mentioned? For all we know oduduwa could have come from another Yoruba settlement outside Ife
(which btw, is actually the case)

I will post a picture of the entire page you quoted from.
You left this out
"... The City developing it's political and religious primacy as a result of the arrival of a militarily powerful group of foreigners who were part of a distant branch of the Yoruba people. Unfortunately the name of the leader of this group is not known, because in the accounts his identity is subsumed by that of his patron deity, Oduduwa"


What are the implications of this excerpt and the entire article to your general claims?

It's actually funny though because I remember introducing you to Suzanne Blier as one of the top figures of yoruba art history only for you to say a white woman cannot know Yoruba history

macof:



I know you are retarded and I don't expect you to think analytically but for the sake of others I will say this here

When you read a historical text, you think of its implications and you ask yourself "what exactly is this text trying to teach" before posting it as if it buttresses your point

From the excerpt a few things can be noted but the points relevant to this discussion are
1. Oduduwa was foreign to Ilé-Ifè
2. Ife had people already settled and established
3. Oduduwa and his party married into the local population

Now comparing the text to your assertions and claims of yoruba origin
1. where in this text does it remotely imply that oduduwa spoke a foreign language or that he imposed his language on the ife people?
2. Where in the text is it remotely implied that oduduwa was a semitic man from the middle East?
3. Where in this excerpt is Oduduwa's origin even mentioned? For all we know oduduwa could have come from another Yoruba settlement outside Ife
(which btw, is actually the case)

I will post a picture of the entire page you quoted from.
You left this out
"... The City developing it's political and religious primacy as a result of the arrival of a militarily powerful group of foreigners who were part of a distant branch of the Yoruba people. Unfortunately the name of the leader of this group is not known, because in the accounts his identity is subsumed by that of his patron deity, Oduduwa"


What are the implications of this excerpt and the entire article to your general claims?

It's actually funny though because I remember introducing you to Suzanne Blier as one of the top figures of yoruba art history only for you to say a white woman cannot know Yoruba history

Slow indeed! and as usual no better way to posit view but assumption; olodo . I know you will fall for this trap because of the following reasons:

1. The Yoruba language does not exist in West Africans lexicons and it has been established that the language of Africa is unguardedly lumped together, which the origin is established by By JOSEPH H. GKEENBERG: THE CLASSIFICATION OF AFRICAN LANGUAGES,and buttress by Al Ilori and I that it is a Semitic language for the reason being that Baalé, Ara, Oba, ba,Aba,Baba, la/lo(law), Mobo,bo,kara,sanra etc dont exist in other than the language of the teacher's language of Semitic origin as English language is in modern day Nigeria which is spoken by Yorubas only.

2. The 11th,12th, Yoruba ancestors sculpture on human's copper heads or terracotta heads, of ram's head work didn't exist in West Africa even up till date. Later works on were basically West Africa

3. Solely bloodline based on kingly and not priests lineage can rule as established by Ooni; Oshin.

4. In fact, it was one the written evidence that the original ancestor name is not know

5. That are are people who don't use facial Marks are new people who took over the place they now called Ileife.

6. That the Opa Oranmiyan written ideograms can't be interpreted but scholars maintained that Yod and resh are identified with the Ivory

7. That there is no proof within the same Yoruba enclave of distance place of origin can be identified with the place of the foreign Yoruba distance family apart from Oyo Ile that he came from. And Oyo ile was founded by who ?

8. That Opa Ogun obelisk also exist as considered as having its origin in near east because the close cognate and all the attributes adduce to the name exist in Near East.

9.That the name of Hebrew God is the same as God in Yoruba's God

10. That it is established that these same different Group of Yorubas married the local to be part of they to be accepted as part of them

11. That Ora and the Yoruba language of Ifaodu place of origin can't be pinned down because the true place of origin is lost.


12. That even a well known professor ,known as Professor Saburi Biobaku( as a Dr. , then ) , authored a book : PATTERN OF YORUBA HISTORY, affirmed that the origin of Yoruba were claimed to be from Near East . So, Oga,stop this your pathetic woe,because I know Susan Blier before your assumption of introducing her to me or whatever cheap popularity you dim fit to achieve because her interpretation of the excavated heads are not in conformity with What some of those heads meant.

Olu317:
Slow indeed! and as usual no better way to posit view but assumption; olodo . I know you will fall for this trap because of the following reasons:

1. The Yoruba language does not exist in West Africans lexicons and it has been established that the language of Africa is unguardedly lumped together, which the origin is established by By JOSEPH H. GKEENBERG: THE CLASSIFICATION OF AFRICAN LANGUAGES,and buttress by Al Ilori and I that it is a Semitic language for the reason being that Baalé, Ara, Oba, ba,Aba,Baba, la/lo(law), Mobo,bo,kara,sanra etc dont exist in other than the language of the teacher's language of Semitic origin as English language is in modern day Nigeria which is spoken by Yorubas only.

2. The 11th,12th, Yoruba ancestors sculpture on human's copper heads or terracotta heads, of ram's head work didn't exist in West Africa even up till date. Later works on were basically West Africa

3. Solely bloodline based on kingly and not priests lineage can rule as established by Ooni; Oshin.

4. In fact, it was one the written evidence that the original ancestor name is not know

5. That are are people who don't use facial Marks are new people who took over the place they now called Ileife.

6. That the Opa Oranmiyan written ideograms can't be interpreted but scholars maintained that Yod and resh are identified with the Ivory

7. That there is no proof within the same Yoruba enclave of distance place of origin can be identified with the place of the foreign Yoruba distance family apart from Oyo Ile that he came from. And Oyo ile was founded by who ?

8. That Opa Ogun obelisk also exist as considered as having its origin in near east because the close cognate and all the attributes adduce to the name exist in Near East.

9.That the name of Hebrew God is the same as God in Yoruba's God

10. That it is established that these same different Group of Yorubas married the local to be part of they to be accepted as part of them

11. That Ora and the Yoruba language of Ifaodu place of origin can't be pinned down because the true place of origin is lost.


12. That even a well known professor ,known as Professor Saburi Biobaku( as a Dr. , then ) , authored a book : PATTERN OF YORUBA HISTORY, affirmed that the origin of Yoruba were claimed to be from Near East . So, Oga,stop this your pathetic woe,because I know Susan Blier before your assumption of introducing her to me or whatever cheap popularity you dim fit to achieve because her interpretation of the excavated heads are not in conformity with What some of those heads meant.

Please stick to the topic

This comment of yours is not a reply to my post at all

You are just ranting. Stick to addressing the post

macof:

When you deranged fellows have nothing else to say you start questioning the pedigree and identity of someone who is far far far more Yoruba than all of you put together.
Lets get this straight, if anyone's Yorubaness is to be questioned it is you. You don't even know who you are or where you come from
Your utter ignorance of the simplest Yoruba facts and deep Hebrew/Arab worship is unlike a Yoruba person

You all have only one thing to do and that is :
Provide evidence for your claims

Stick to that and stop asking foolish questions

can't blame you .macof Pavlovian conditioning "" ..you are trying so hard to hold on to the precious junks you've used your years to accumulate you somuch pride yourself in the knowledge you've accumulated over the years .Mr macof knowledge is not static ,is dynamic ..to learn new things you have to believe you know nothing. you don't have a time machine to confirm you are right . I don't believe all Hebrew link to yoruba, because i believe ile-ife cosmology and yoruba tradition ile-ife epicenter of the world the source of human race but i don't want to drown myself in the believe doing so i will be limiting my mind at the same time i make use of my rational mind ......,Mr Macof who are the the Hausa, Fulani , Dogon Senegalese ,Soninke ..

absoluteSuccess:
@Geosegun,

I have come to realize the voice of man is indeed the voice of God as our elders used to say.

I should be able to write a book about the Ela stuff sometimes in the future, and I think the future start right now: I woke up last thursday with an idea of what one can do with all the stuffs I've posted here, and I just felt a title dropped from our last discussion, and that's "God Speaks Yoruba".

I dedicate the title to you brov, for tossing my initiative in that direction. I might be boasting on what I will do soon, but my posts here are already in the past and can be harvested for a petit journal, it should make a good read, thanks to all my friends on here for making it possible.

keep being great bro, its contagious.

God bless our hustles.

Wha o! This sounds great, please do let me know when you finished writing one. I will be on the lookout all the time.

geosegun:


Wha o! This sounds great, please do let me know when you finished writing one. I will be on the lookout all the time.

Thanks bro, I will keep you posted, will have to stop posting here soon to concentrate.

It would be an enjoyable piece you can trust.

macof:

I have nothing to do with whatever nonsense you represent

And I cannot be teaching you at your age that facts can exist in reactions. If you have a specific problem with my post state it and stop posting irrelevant nonsense just to react to my post
I wonder who the real impulsive one is here

There are three functions of knowledge: to establish fact, to find fault and to identify fallacy. Fact is constant, fault is variable and fallacy is temporal. The attributes of fact is that it is self-sufficient, it does not wait on any accessory to be established.

On the other hand, fault finding is not a constant and as such insufficient. It waits on the accessories of or availability of fact to fault or fallacy to fault. Fault finding cannot function on its own except there were principles, fallacies or ordinances to investigate.

Fallacy however is temporal; it is borne out of the need to interpret cause and effect from the myopic angle of the observer from a contemporary accessory at his own disposal, which is not verifiable in any other source.

Fact finding is an exclusive reserve of the great men of understanding. Fault finding is for the smart folks who have to check for the faultline in a fact they became privy of through the great men of understanding. Fallacy is the preoccupation of men of average intelligence.

A man whose preoccupation is fault finding with bitterness is smart but not brilliant. Such attitude generate only strife, and gainsaying that eventually reduce their rank to "the fallacy of men of average intelligence".

A man stuck to fault finding has achieved his pedestal in the progress of knowledge, to always circle around the same orbit without ability to break from the vicious circle of self indulged ignorance for knowledge.

Fault finding is not to be mistaken as fact finding: fact is self-sufficient, you find your fact independent of available accessories with the resources at your disposal. But fault finding is lurking around for any contractor to fault.

Fault finding cannot establish fact, it looks only for “what’s wrong”, not “what’s right”. It often results in gainsaying. It is a process which often condemns the work for the creator.

The merit however is when the fault finder is also a fact finder, a fact plus a fact makes more fact, a fact plus a fallacy makes new fact, a fact plus a fault with alternative means improvement.

A fact plus a fault without an alternative leaves you with a choice between fact, fallacy or gainsaying.

@macof, you are not a fact finder but fault finder.

macof:


Please stick to the topic

This comment of yours is not a reply to my post at all

You are just ranting. Stick to addressing the post

Ever since you seem not to understand things easily but quickly to surf the web for information so as counter me ,which, make me see that you're bound to have problem with your quick approach. .Therefore, I intend to expose your lies because Social scientists have noted that certain parameters help to define individual or group identity. These parameters include religion, nationalism, ethnicity and language. They constitute in part or in whole, some of the processes involved in identity formation (Capozza & Brown 2000; Castells 2004). Studies have, however, shown that the parameters for defining identity are in a sense open-ended and context-based (Olojede 2008:. Adetugbo (1973:182) states that, “The belief that is current among the Yorùbá is that they migrated to their present home from somewhere in the Middle East or Lower Egypt in different waves between the seventh and eleventh centuries A.D.” It is generally an either/or situation (e.g. Johnson’s Egypt/Nubia and Biobaku’s Egypt/beyond theories).

Therefore the migration narratives will therefore be considered in the light of the elements of identity formation, in which Talbot (1926) and even Johnson, who after disputing the Mecca theory, argues that the Yorùbá probably emigrated from Upper Egypt to Ilé-Ife. His evidence includes the sculptures known as Ife marbles and the ‘Phoenician’ characters on opá rànmíyàn, an ancient granite obelisk over 18ft high at If (Johnson 1921:6). In addition to this, various other traditions claim that the Yorùbá originated from the east of the Niger (cf. Bowen 1968:266), from the Sudan, parts of Asia (cf. Lucas 1948:15), from across a big river (Beier 1955b:19) or from a far country (Farrow 1926:21). Beier (1955a:26) also attempts to prove that the Nupe country was one of the stages of the Yorùbá migration. Karin Barber also who remarked that, ‘origin is the foundation of identity (1991:136)'. Thus, for the Yorùbá, who speak a common language (with many variants), the traditions of common origin function as a symbol of identity and the two elements common to the traditions of origin and the migration theories above are Ile-Ife and Odùdùwà( funlola olojede)

1. Oduduwa was foreign to Ilé-Ifè ?

Answer:

a. There was no Ileife before the arrivalof these foreigners because, On historical connection, Burns (1972: p. 120) explains that before the first settlers of Yoruba stock at Ile-Ife led by Oduduwa, there was a black tribe called Negro, which was small in number but these emigrants (The Yoruba) later dominated this tribe with their language and culture.

b. It has been stated times without numbers that Oduduwa migration, is the best known in tradition. It arose from the pressure which the incursion of the Arabs into the Sudan exercised upon remnants of the Yoruba and must have taken place towards the end of the 10th century A.D. The people who resisted all-conquering Islam found a great leader in Oduduwa (a leader later deified in tradition) and left their homes in search of a place where they could practise their traditional religion in safety ( THE PATTERN OF YORUBA HISTORY by Sabiru Biobaku. p.64,65).

c. Even among present-day scholars of Yoruba religion such as Idowu (p. 23) and Awolalu (p. 27) see the city of Ileife as developing its political and religious primacy as a result of the arrival of a militarily powerful group of foreigners who were part of a distant branch of the Yoruba people. Unfortunately the name of the leader of this group is not known, because in the accounts his identity is subsumed by that of his patron deity, Odudua. At the time of the arrival of this outsider and his party, Ife was occupied by an indigenous people who were under the leadership of a hunter named Ore (Oreluere). Not surprisingly, the original inhabitants of Ife do not appear to have supported this foreigner, ‘Odudua,' in his attempts to gain control of the city. This foreign ruler was, however, by all accounts a strong and politically effective leader.

2. Ife had people already settled and established

Answer:
a. Yes, (Abimbola p.c., Lawal p.c., Awolalu 1979:26).These Ife area had autochthonous families, many of whom were forced out of the city by members of the new Odudua dynasty.(Art Bulletin by Susan Blier).

3. Oduduwa and his party married into the local population

Answer:
Yes, they did married local women.In Art Bulletin, Susan Blier says ‘Not surprisingly, the orig- inal inhabitants of Ife do not appear to have supported this foreigner, "Odudua," in his attempts to gain control of the city. This foreign ruler was, however, by all accounts a strong and politically effective leader. One of his most important decisions was to establish a series of marriage alliances with the local populace. Accordingly, both he and his party mar- ried indigenous women "of the land," in order to create a new generation of Ife residents who, in Idowu's words (p. 24), "... . would be at home in both worlds . . . people who were without bitterness towards either of the opposing parties." In the course of these marriages, the new ruler fa- thered a number of children, many of whom eventually set out to found their own dynasties in other Yoruba states.

Note:
Henceforth, if you support your information with both local and foreign (western) scholarly reference, then don't quote me again because you are intellectually inconsistent.

Olu317:

Ever since you seem not to understand things easily but quickly to surf the web for information so as counter me ,which, make me see that you're bound to have problem with your quick approach. .Therefore, I intend to expose your lies because Social scientists have noted that certain parameters help to define individual or group identity. These parameters include religion, nationalism, ethnicity and language. They constitute in part or in whole, some of the processes involved in identity formation (Capozza & Brown 2000; Castells 2004). Studies have, however, shown that the parameters for defining identity are in a sense open-ended and context-based (Olojede 2008:. Adetugbo (1973:182) states that, “The belief that is current among the Yorùbá is that they migrated to their present home from somewhere in the Middle East or Lower Egypt in different waves between the seventh and eleventh centuries A.D.” It is generally an either/or situation (e.g. Johnson’s Egypt/Nubia and Biobaku’s Egypt/beyond theories).

Therefore the migration narratives will therefore be considered in the light of the elements of identity formation, in which Talbot (1926) and even Johnson, who after disputing the Mecca theory, argues that the Yorùbá probably emigrated from Upper Egypt to Ilé-Ife. His evidence includes the sculptures known as Ife marbles and the ‘Phoenician’ characters on opá rànmíyàn, an ancient granite obelisk over 18ft high at If (Johnson 1921:6). In addition to this, various other traditions claim that the Yorùbá originated from the east of the Niger (cf. Bowen 1968:266), from the Sudan, parts of Asia (cf. Lucas 1948:15), from across a big river (Beier 1955b:19) or from a far country (Farrow 1926:21). Beier (1955a:26) also attempts to prove that the Nupe country was one of the stages of the Yorùbá migration. Karin Barber also who remarked that, ‘origin is the foundation of identity (1991:136)'. Thus, for the Yorùbá, who speak a common language (with many variants), the traditions of common origin function as a symbol of identity and the two elements common to the traditions of origin and the migration theories above are Ile-Ife and Odùdùwà( funlola olojede)

1. Oduduwa was foreign to Ilé-Ifè ?

Answer:

a. There was no Ileife before the arrivalof these foreigners because, On historical connection, Burns (1972: p. 120) explains that before the first settlers of Yoruba stock at Ile-Ife led by Oduduwa, there was a black tribe called Negro, which was small in number but these emigrants (The Yoruba) later dominated this tribe with their language and culture.

b. It has been stated times without numbers that Oduduwa migration, is the best known in tradition. It arose from the pressure which the incursion of the Arabs into the Sudan exercised upon remnants of the Yoruba and must have taken place towards the end of the 10th century A.D. The people who resisted all-conquering Islam found a great leader in Oduduwa (a leader later deified in tradition) and left their homes in search of a place where they could practise their traditional religion in safety ( THE PATTERN OF YORUBA HISTORY by Sabiru Biobaku. p.64,65).

c. Even among present-day scholars of Yoruba religion such as Idowu (p. 23) and Awolalu (p. 27) see the city of Ileife as developing its political and religious primacy as a result of the arrival of a militarily powerful group of foreigners who were part of a distant branch of the Yoruba people. Unfortunately the name of the leader of this group is not known, because in the accounts his identity is subsumed by that of his patron deity, Odudua. At the time of the arrival of this outsider and his party, Ife was occupied by an indigenous people who were under the leadership of a hunter named Ore (Oreluere). Not surprisingly, the original inhabitants of Ife do not appear to have supported this foreigner, ‘Odudua,' in his attempts to gain control of the city. This foreign ruler was, however, by all accounts a strong and politically effective leader.

2. Ife had people already settled and established

Answer:
a. Yes, (Abimbola p.c., Lawal p.c., Awolalu 1979:26).These Ife area had autochthonous families, many of whom were forced out of the city by members of the new Odudua dynasty.(Art Bulletin by Susan Blier).

3. Oduduwa and his party married into the local population

Answer:
Yes, they did married local women.In Art Bulletin, Susan Blier says ‘Not surprisingly, the orig- inal inhabitants of Ife do not appear to have supported this foreigner, "Odudua," in his attempts to gain control of the city. This foreign ruler was, however, by all accounts a strong and politically effective leader. One of his most important decisions was to establish a series of marriage alliances with the local populace. Accordingly, both he and his party mar- ried indigenous women "of the land," in order to create a new generation of Ife residents who, in Idowu's words (p. 24), "... . would be at home in both worlds . . . people who were without bitterness towards either of the opposing parties." In the course of these marriages, the new ruler fa- thered a number of children, many of whom eventually set out to found their own dynasties in other Yoruba states.

Note:
Henceforth, if you support your information with both local and foreign (western) scholarly reference, then don't quote me again because you are intellectually inconsistent.

Smh. Still ranting without actually addressing the post

macof:


Smh. Still ranting without actually addressing the post

olodo lasan! What exactly do you want me to address again? ....Abeg stop quoting me anymore without scholarly references because you're intellectually dehydrated.

People like you are too proud to ever know the simplest thing on earth because of pride. A Yoruba man who place no value on his ancestor, is who you're. Mind you, the reality will catch up with lot like you. Perhaps, you ought begin to get acquainted with the glaring truth.

Note
For people who will see this in the future to know that you're an inconsistent person and know nothing tangible about Yoruba language's history, will see the screenshot below to adhere to the reality that Yoruba people are of Near East Origin .

macof:

When you . . . fellows have nothing else to say you start questioning the pedigree and identity of someone who is far far far more Yoruba than all of you put together.
Lets get this straight, if anyone's Yorubaness is to be questioned it is you. You don't even know who you are or where you come from
Your utter ignorance of the simplest Yoruba facts. . . is unlike a Yoruba person

How do people even measure degree of Yorubaness sef?

I once opened a thread for people who are half Yoruba, the phrase itself sounded so odd and awkward (I myself felt out of sorts), it wasnt long before the topic was deleted, I'm not even sure it was up to an hour.

absoluteSuccess:


There are three functions of knowledge: to establish fact, to find fault and to identify fallacy. Fact is constant, fault is variable and fallacy is temporal. The attributes of fact is that it is self-sufficient, it does not wait on any accessory to be established.

On the other hand, fault finding is not a constant and as such insufficient. It waits on the accessories of or availability of fact to fault or fallacy to fault. Fault finding cannot function on its own except there were principles, fallacies or ordinances to investigate.

Fallacy however is temporal; it is borne out of the need to interpret cause and effect from the myopic angle of the observer from a contemporary accessory at his own disposal, which is not verifiable in any other source.

Fact finding is an exclusive reserve of the great men of understanding. Fault finding is for the smart folks who have to check for the faultline in a fact they became privy of through the great men of understanding. Fallacy is the preoccupation of men of average intelligence.

A man whose preoccupation is fault finding with bitterness is smart but not brilliant. Such attitude generate only strife, and gainsaying that eventually reduce their rank to "the fallacy of men of average intelligence".

A man stuck to fault finding has achieved his pedestal in the progress of knowledge, to always circle around the same orbit without ability to break from the vicious circle of self indulged ignorance for knowledge.

Fault finding is not to be mistaken as fact finding: fact is self-sufficient, you find your fact independent of available accessories with the resources at your disposal. But fault finding is lurking around for any contractor to fault.

Fault finding cannot establish fact, it looks only for “what’s wrong”, not “what’s right”. It often results in gainsaying. It is a process which often condemns the work for the creator.

The merit however is when the fault finder is also a fact finder, a fact plus a fact makes more fact, a fact plus a fallacy makes new fact, a fact plus a fault with alternative means improvement.

A fact plus a fault without an alternative leaves you with a choice between fact, fallacy or gainsaying.

@macof, you are not a fact finder but fault finder.

This is a mere painful outcry of a person who can't defend his ludicrous claims. You can't make it in a proper intellectual environment where you would be put through rigorous process of scrutiny
You would rather nobody challenges you and allow you run a mockery of yoruba history in particular and World history in general... You are a menace

If you don't have any faults, there won't be any faults to find Mr. Hebrew wannabe
Seek your healing and do the right thing and stop trying to weasle out of the needful.

Btw, just to tackle your accusations.. I dish out facts on a steady on this forum
Everyone knows my moniker represents that

nlPoster:





How do people even measure degree of Yorubaness sef?

I once opened a thread for people who are half Yoruba, the phrase itself sounded so odd and awkward (I myself felt out of sorts), it wasnt long before the topic was deleted, I'm not even sure it was up to an hour.

Ultimately I do not mean to measure anybody's degree of yorubaness on a faceless forum.
But let's be straight, no Hebrew wannabe would tell me I am not yoruba for not wanting to be Hebrew.. Not when no Yoruba educated in the Yoruba way would want to be Hebrew in the first place

That is a cheap and cowardly scheme they resort to in attempt to "disqualify" you from discussing Yoruba history anytime they have nothing to say or they just rant and go off topic and hope you would leave them alone

Olu317:
olodo lasan! What exactly do you want me to address again? ....Abeg stop quoting me anymore without scholarly references because you're intellectually dehydrated. .

The post you woefully replied to. Your reply was utterly off topic
This is ultimately what you get when you didn't go to school

scholarly references. Oh Jeez
You just pulled that out of nowhere
This guy is a real clown

macof:


Ultimately I do not mean to measure anybody's degree of yorubaness on a faceless forum.

. . .a cheap and cowardly scheme they resort to in attempt to "disqualify" you from discussing Yoruba history anytime they have nothing to say or they just rant and go off topic and hope you would leave them alone

I edited your quoted post because I don't think a Yoruba middle eastern link is too far fetched.

It was ancient times, there was no doubt a lot of migration.

There are many theories of origin, which involve the regions to the northern parts of and beyond Africa.

nlPoster:


I edited your quoted post because I don't think a Yoruba middle eastern link is too far fetched.

It was ancient times, there was no doubt a lot of migration.

There are many theories of origin, including Egyptian, etc.

.
There are many theories of origin... All of which have been put through scrutiny and all failed to stand the very basic levels of historical scrutiny

You are simply trying to be careful here, best you let out exactly what you mean. A lot of migration in ancient times can mean anything
And there are several factors to be considered from time length of migration, to migration pattern to size of migration and so much more

You seem to want to suggest that middle eastern people migrated into Yorùbáland.
Whether I agree or not is largely insignificant right now but the aforementioned factors are obviously not considered. So let me use this analogy :
There has been an increased number of middle eastern migrants in Europe. So therefore Europeans are from the middle East?

macof:


This is a mere painful outcry of a person who can't defend his ludicrous claims. You can't make it in a proper intellectual environment where you would be put through rigorous process of scrutiny.

I'm always at fault with you.

I have asked Olu to allow everyone to air their view and also dealt a good hand on misconception of Sahara that your friend peddled around here with higher claims that's terrific and personal.

We learn everyday. No knowledge is lost.

Knowledge is meant to be acquired in the details of every wondrous idea that struck the mind. Not just in a "proper intellectual environment". The man who invented the clandestine bulb failed to attain such pedestal. But today, we have light.

I never dream of making it in a proper intellectual environment where your ilks come from fella, where your sweetest word is neurotic: I believe you made it there hence you were posted here.

You would rather nobody challenges you and allow you run a mockery of yoruba history in particular and World history in general... You are a menace

God. How many years have you known me? Where have I challenged you once save in a thread I made solely for that purpose years ago? How often have you been on my matter?

Your first post here was on my thread since 2prexios (2012 or so) and you never tired nor ran me out of idea on the same topic. What else do you want I should to have me susceptible to your scrutiny?

The irony is that the you who recently descended on the bible that represent a fraction of world history is coming out to save the world history all over again.

You are the mockery of the true world history pal. Your order is sanitizing world history, the new world order. You are an agent here deployed to put this order in place, and I happened to be a fomidable foe.

If you don't have any faults, there won't be any faults to find Mr. Hebrew wannabe
Seek your healing and do the right thing and stop trying to weasle out of the needful.

That's not fault, buddy, don't think you are brilliant. You are just smart. My claims can be falsefy if any idea I insinuated about a given word can be proven wrong,

That's scientific method of checking out the accuracy of any given claim, not "faultfinding" that you just reveal to be your article in trade.

Btw, just to tackle your accusations.. I dish out facts on a steady on this forum
Everyone knows my moniker represents that

Thanks, you found me to be a menace and Hebrew wannabe .Everyone might come to know me for that too as much as I care. They shouldn't confuse me as one of your followers. I should have my unique identity here too.

That faultline has been your strength and argument for years and you can't tell me to continue to struggle with you to make a point. Akii moya oso j'oso lo. You cant be privy of my root better than I do.

Already you have a Messianic complex with your world history cum Yoruba history to which your monicker stand to guard lest there be a flux in human population at a time beyond your factual history or all knowing education.

Your factual history is faulty being history in the first place, your factual history should be a called current affairs, not history. If you have figured it out perfectly, not missing a point, you are a time-traveller and a telepathy historian.

No time has passed you by in foundation of Yoruba/world civilization, no knowledge will survive your scutiny except yours, and for that token, you will always have "the fact" for the kind of person you've claimed yourself to be.

But mind you, you cannot goad someone more intelligent than you, but you will only be a waste of time and resources as usual. Your fact coming after another person's idea is an ad-hoc fact, you ought to pre-empt the person in the first place.

Agent macof.

macof:


The post you woefully replied to. Your reply was utterly off topic
This is ultimately what you get when you didn't go to school

scholarly references. Oh Jeez
You just pulled that out of nowhere
This guy is a real clown

Oh lord have mercy! . So, ‘ Scholarly references' has become off topic ? Lol... I rest my case with you.

macof:
.
There are many theories of origin... All of which have been put through scrutiny and all failed to stand the very basic levels of historical scrutiny

What levels are those?

You are simply trying to be careful here, best you let out exactly what you mean.

I said exactly what I mean, which is I don't think middle eastern migration theories are too far fetched.

Yes, even though Yorubas are black and negroid/negro.

A lot of migration in ancient times can mean anything

true

And there are several factors to be considered from time length of migration, to migration pattern to size of migration and so much more

No argument there.

You seem to want to suggest that middle eastern people migrated into Yorùbáland.

It's possible, I'm not saying it was impossible?

Whether I agree or not is largely insignificant right now but the aforementioned factors are obviously not considered. So let me use this analogy :
There has been an increased number of middle eastern migrants in Europe. So therefore Europeans are from the middle East?

Your analogy is a false or misleading one because the two situations (Yoruba versus Europe migration) aren't the same.

Looking at facts:

Ancient Africa did not have the geographical and political fault lines of modern times

Movement of people was common

People would most likely migrate along established routes and knowledge at that time. Have you found out what those established routes were? The atlantic was not necessarily a more convenient option than land crossings. So moving southwards did not have to involve ships and could be done on foot albeit over a long distance.


With the arrival of Europeans in the 15th century or so, migration routes started to change to sea based instead of mostly land based. This is a common sense inference.

Yoruba would not have been a closed society where no immigration was possible. Nothing suggests this.

Ancient Levant

Levants

Levant

Depicting Near East Art work

nlPoster:


What levels are those?



I said exactly what I mean, which is I don't think middle eastern migration theories are too far fetched.

Yes, even though Yorubas are black and negroid/negro.





true




No argument there.





It's possible, I'm not saying it was impossible?





Your analogy is a false or misleading one because the two situations (Yoruba versus Europe migration) aren't the same.

Looking at facts:

Ancient Africa did not have the geographical and political fault lines of modern times

Movement of people was common

People would most likely migrate along established routes and knowledge at that time. Have you found out what those established routes were? The atlantic was not necessarily a more convenient option than land crossings. So moving southwards did not have to involve ships and could be done on foot albeit over a long distance.


With the arrival of Europeans in the 15th century or so, migration routes started to change to sea based instead of mostly land based. This is a common sense inference.

Yoruba would not have been a closed society where no immigration was possible. Nothing suggests this.

Lets try to go with logic here and resolve this with common sense

Movement of people is still common today, has always been and would always be. That is why the factors I mentioned and so many more unmentioned are critical before coming to conclusions, reason why you couldn't address the analogy I made

At best what you have done there is to assume that human nature of moving around automatically means Yoruba could have come from the middle East
How about the people of the middle East could have come from West Africa? By what formula did you arrive at the conclusion that the middle East is the start of any such migration if such migration even existed between the middle East and West Africa. And why the middle East? Migration in ancient times only involved the middle East?
People did not migrate within Africa?

Olu317:
Oh lord have mercy! . So, ‘ Scholarly references' has become off topic ? Lol... I rest my case with you.

you are damned slowpoke man
You don't even know how you go totally off the point

macof:
.
There are many theories of origin... All of which have been put through scrutiny and all failed to stand the very basic levels of historical scrutiny

You are simply trying to be careful here, best you let out exactly what you mean. A lot of migration in ancient times can mean anything
And there are several factors to be considered from time length of migration, to migration pattern to size of migration and so much more

You seem to want to suggest that middle eastern people migrated into Yorùbáland.
Whether I agree or not is largely insignificant right now but the aforementioned factors are obviously not considered. So let me use this analogy :
There has been an increased number of middle eastern migrants in Europe. So therefore Europeans are from the middle East?

What is wrong with Middle eastern migration ...Have you heard of Aryan race ?... Even European embrace their Aryan race migration from Northern India ...You are bent on Bantu origin ..

absoluteSuccess:


I'm always at fault with you.

I have asked Olu to allow everyone to air their view and also dealt a good hand on misconception of Sahara that your friend peddled around here with higher claims that's terrific and personal.

We learn everyday. No knowledge is lost.

Knowledge is meant to be acquired in the details of every wondrous idea that struck the mind. Not just in a "proper intellectual environment". The man who invented the clandestine bulb failed to attain such pedestal. But today, we have light.

I never dream of making it in a proper intellectual environment where your ilks come from fella, where your sweetest word is neurotic: I believe you made it there hence you were posted here.



God. How many years have you known me? Where have I challenged you once save in a thread I made solely for that purpose years ago? How often have you been on my matter?

Your first post here was on my thread since 2prexios (2012 or so) and you never tired nor ran me out of idea on the same topic. What else do you want I should to have me susceptible to your scrutiny?

The irony is that the you who recently descended on the bible that represent a fraction of world history is coming out to save the world history all over again.

You are the mockery of the true world history pal. Your order is sanitizing world history, the new world order. You are an agent here deployed to put this order in place, and I happened to be a fomidable foe.



That's not fault, buddy, don't think you are brilliant. You are just smart. My claims can be falsefy if any idea I insinuated about a given word can be proven wrong,

That's scientific method of checking out the accuracy of any given claim, not "faultfinding" that you just reveal to be your article in trade.



Thanks, you found me to be a menace and Hebrew wannabe .Everyone might come to know me for that too as much as I care. They shouldn't confuse me as one of your followers. I should have my unique identity here too.

That faultline has been your strength and argument for years and you can't tell me to continue to struggle with you to make a point. Akii moya oso j'oso lo. You cant be privy of my root better than I do.

Already you have a Messianic complex with your world history cum Yoruba history to which your monicker stand to guard lest there be a flux in human population at a time beyond your factual history or all knowing education.

Your factual history is faulty being history in the first place, your factual history should be a called current affairs, not history. If you have figured it out perfectly, not missing a point, you are a time-traveller and a telepathy historian.

No time has passed you by in foundation of Yoruba/world civilization, no knowledge will survive your scutiny except yours, and for that token, you will always have "the fact" for the kind of person you've claimed yourself to be.

But mind you, you cannot goad someone more intelligent than you, but you will only be a waste of time and resources as usual. Your fact coming after another person's idea is an ad-hoc fact, you ought to pre-empt the person in the first place.

Agent macof.

More painful outcry. Rather than cry over being called out when you say nonsense like Edo is Edomite or Deborah is Ẹbọra or Aramean is Ọranmiyan or Ibẹru is Hebrew, you ought to have given yourself proper education that would equip you in the field of history you want to dive into just like I and many others who find history worthwhile did.

All you have is imagination not knowledge
No knowledge revealed to you that Iṣẹri is Israel

I don't claim to know all but when one possess some degree of knowledge on a topic it would be easy to identify nonsense.
This lamentation is just an eyesore to read, when you begin to practically beg to be left alone to continue your menace rather than do the right thing

PS. About the Bible thing you brought up again, I already mentioned a few biblical scholars who declared the bible to be a questionable historical text

But you aren't a historian but a content creator, creating historical fantasy trying to pass it off as History to make it sell better. You are just trying to make a buck
You are no better than a quack doctor using cutlass and hammer in the hospital

Obalufon:
What is wrong with Middle eastern migration ...Have you heard of Aryan race ?... Even European embrace their Aryan race migration from Northern India ...You are bent on Bantu origin ..

. A pity there is such a human being as unintelligent and lacking in the very basic of comprehension skills as yourself

What is wrong with middle eastern migration into Yorùbáland is same as what is wrong with talking about East Asian migration into Yorùbáland
No evidence! No basis by which this claims can stand

I am not here to discuss 18th century flawed racial classification

Nowhere have I stated the Yoruba have a bantu origin, you keep saying I do but probably just your crazy mind conjuring illusions

macof:
you are damned slowpoke man
You don't even know how you go totally off the point

Defend what I posted . Instead, vulgar statement from you. I caught you with facts.