TAO11:


(1) Yes, his old works as they continue to be regarded as classics, even by world-renowned scholars such as Dr. R. E. Bradbury.

(2) Search the following: "Contemporary Scholarship on the Ife-Benin relationship", you should see their list. Don't make me think you're too daft to do this simple search.

(3) Like I have come to same conclusion on this thread. You can also start reading contemporary academic works on the subject to find out.

(4) Why do you keep signing your nickname (i.e. "Mumuboy") as a complementary close for your dvmbest comments ??

Image 1
Shows my search contemporary relationship on the Ife-Benin relationship

Image 2

On the article. traditional documents and the ife benin relationship written by John K. Thornton
Shows the screen shot of the concluding article
Were he mentioned benin had manipulated its original history to favour the yorubas

3,4 pages that disagree on benin-ife relationships


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.jstor.org/stable/3171867&ved=2ahUKEwion4Tij-voAhUmxIUKHRiXAC4QFjAAegQIARAC&usg=AOvVaw3sZ6toyaxtOO2-EHiXQsGB&cshid=1586978344633



AGAIN yufi wasnt recognized as ife, i fear una oo all in a bid to twist history to make sure benin history come under ife you guys will go to such length to take other people's glory


Samuk

Davidnazee

gregyboy:


[s]Image 1
Shows my search contemporary relationship on the Ife-Benin relationship

Image 2

On the article. traditional documents and the ife benin relationship written by John K. Thornton
Shows the screen shot of the concluding article
Were he mentioned benin had manipulated its original history to favour the yorubas

3,4 pages that disagree on benin-ife relationships


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.jstor.org/stable/3171867&ved=2ahUKEwion4Tij-voAhUmxIUKHRiXAC4QFjAAegQIARAC&usg=AOvVaw3sZ6toyaxtOO2-EHiXQsGB&cshid=1586978344633



AGAIN yufi wasnt recognized as ife, i fear una oo all in a bid to twist history to make sure benin history come under ife you guys will go to such length to take other people's glory


Samuk

Davidnazee[/s]

First of all you are ignorant, you have short memory, and you have no sense of dates. So be sure that I know this about you already.

You've mentioned Thornton (1988) before and I have produced Knobler (2016).

So, I leave you to continue basking in your delusions that 1988 is more contemporary than 2016.

On the overall, I am glad that I gave you some homework to do. By the time I am done with you, I am certain you would have gotten something inside the round repository of vacuum that sits atop your neck.


And regarding "Yufi", I am still waiting to see, from you, any scholarly identification from any specialist in that particular area of research.

While waiting, I will continue making you cry daily while your search for "Arodan" continues.

But in the meantime, here is an academic journal article dedicated specifically to "Yufi" by a specialist on that specific identification.

This article shows that scholars who specialize in examining Ibn Battûta's Voyage documents are already aware of the widespread "Nupe" misidentification amongst those who are not particularly specialized in the area.

Read below and kill your ignorance.

Reference:
J. E. G. Sutton: "Ibn Battuta's Yufi - Bronze and Gold in Mid-Iron-Age Africa", Transafrican Journal of History, Vol. 10, No. 1/2.

MelesZenawi:
I think at this point, you guys should call it a quit but few points has been established..

1. The history of Bini is not complete without the mention of Yorubas

2. The history of Yorubas aren't complete without the mention of of Binis.

3. Both without further argument has both ancestry more reason the argument draws longer and also points to one thing always

4. Both without bias are just brothers , same people just with different names.

5. Both are just one people , one blood and that's why it is hard to argue the matter.

Finally....Yoruba and binis are just blood brothers with different names due to age long movement.


Let the argument end as these facts has been established.

cc


gregyboy
TAO11
Samuk
geosegun
Hbrid99
davidnazee
AreaFada2
SilverSniper

Well, thank you Mr Meles. First this was a thread began by a Yoruba person.

While Benin people generally feel comfortable with both East & West, and culture has flowed both ways over the centuries, Benin and Yoruba are genetically and philologically different people. Like royalties across the world over millenniums, the royal houses clearly have blood links.

Benin therefore are not junior or senior to anyone in modern times. Even imperial exploits do not necessarily confer seniority in modern times. For example it's entirely up to Olu of Warri & Oba of Lagos families how they want to relate to Benin. While both currently consider Oba of Benin as sitting on their father's throne (I can forward links of Olu & Eleko saying so in videos if anybody wants), in 100 years their descendants can deny it and we would be fine with that too.

You will hardly ever see Benin starting threads to claim seniority. History is what it is. History. But equally Benin will not take distortion of history without a robust reply.

Anyone out to wage supremacy war has only set out to fail. It's fundamental human desire for people to choose their affiliation and how they want to define and express themselves.

As of now, we are reaching out to people we believe we have historical links with. From Niger Delta, to Lagos to Togo/Ghana. It's up to those people to confirm their kinship with us based on their own history passed on to them by their forebears. That's has been the case largely in Bayelsa & Rivers. Not by force.

Going forward, I respect how passionately people care about promotion of their culture. At the end. everyone learns from it. Hopefully that builds mutual respect irrespective of agreement or disagreement.

AreaFada2:


... As of now, we are reaching out to people we believe we have historical links with ... Togo/Ghana...

Bro, with due respect I think you've read too much of websites like "edo-nation", "edoworld" "edoblog", etc.

There is no evidence that even suggests any such tribal connection between Benin kingdom and Togo or Ghana. It's one of the many jokes by those aforementioned websites.

Language is a key factor that quickly indicates such connection if any. But Edoid languages aren't spoken by any group (or sub-group) as an indigenous language anywhere outside of Nigeria.

Not only that, those people themselves don't talk of any such connection. And there is no reason why they would normally want to actively disconnect themselves from their own history if it were the case.

In contrast, an Ife subgroup known simply as the Ife people (or sometimes the Ana people) are still found till date in Togo with their proud Yoruba identity.

The Ga people of Ghana (whom the aforementioned edo websites often claim Benin kingdom to have tribal connection with) actually have something else to say.

See the attachment below. For some strange reasons I am not allowed to post those words here directly.

In fact, the Ooni of Ife was seen recently in Ghana to install a particular tribal King there. I will post a link to the video if I find it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd7ZUEvhyRc

Cheers!

gregyboy:



We were never brothers to this weakling who hide behind false history to attach benin grestness to itself


If you have been following the thread you will know Oduduwa never existed it was a political stage myth


Because britsh conquered nigeria and nigeria inturn practice british culture does that equate nigeria and Britain as brothers


Why would you be supporting nonsense, if you want to mediate then go back to the beginning of thread and readto the last dont just come and say rubbish because you want to make peace


You as an igbo you will be the first to insult benins if we say onistcha people come from benin

Nobody would insult you if you make an unfounded claim , such as Onicha has Bini ancestry, rather he would gladly ask you to show the tiniest proof. Of course , you have no proof , however, your only support is " they said" ....nothing more and you think you deserve respect.

The problem with you Bini people is that you dare try to over emphasize, over state and over hype your little village chiefdom , though you have little to prove your purported greatness and influence....your language is barely alive, nigga! Abeg , go bow to your Oba and leave us alone.

Areafada, you never even save your little Bini na Ghana and Togo you wan enter

TAO11:


Bro, with due respect I think you've read too much of websites like "edo-nation", "edoworld" "edoblog", etc.

There is no evidence that even suggests any such tribal connection between Benin kingdom and Togo or Ghana. It's one of the many jokes by those aforementioned websites.

Jacob Egharevba was the first Nigerian historian to mention such a link in modern times.

Dmitri Bondarenko, who you have repeatedly cited, co-authored an entire article proposing exactly what you are ridiculing here.

You can read the article below by Bondarenko and his co-authors, and you can see his citations of Egharevba's work:

https://www.academia.edu/1903862/Ludewig_Ferdinand_R%C3%B6mers_Nachrichten_von_der_K%C3%BCste_Guinea_Mid-18th_Century_as_a_Source_on_the_Benin_Kingdom_History_and_Culture

Peter Roese, Dmitri Bondarenko - "Ludewig Ferdinand Römer's "Nachrichten von der Küste Guinea" (Mid-18th Century) as a Source on the Benin Kingdom History and Culture" (2001)

I have no special interest one way or the other whether or not such a proposed link really has some basis, personally. I'm just letting you know that both Jacob Egharevba (drawing upon oral tradition) and now Dmitri Bondarenko (drawing upon both published oral traditions from different groups and older European documents) thought such a link to be entirely plausible and based on something real.

A note about at least one thing in the article itself: Roese (and Roese) and Bondarenko's suggestion that "Dahomey = Dauma" (the Dauma indicated on some old maps) is an idea that was refuted by some other researchers decades ago, but they may not have read the articles which explain that it is a reference to a different place.

Another note is that their translation (on p. 2 of that article) of what the Englishman that Rømer spoke to was saying about the comparison of towns on the Gold Coast (what is now Ghana) to Benin City is misleading in its wording, or just seems to be a case of quite poor translation for that specific passage. The Englishman that Ludwig Rømer spoke to was actually criticizing Bosman for suggesting that any of those towns on the Gold Coast were somehow comparable to Benin City. In one of the editions of Willem Bosman's book (A New and Accurate Description...) a comparison is made between the architecture of Benin City and the architecture of Axim, a town in the Gold Coast. That Englishman (who had visited Benin City in the mid 1700s) found this comparison absurd apparently because he considered Benin City's architecture to be much more impressive and Benin City to be a much greater city. That Englishman was really telling Rømer that anyone who could even suggest, as Bosman apparently had, that Benin City was not better than those towns on the Gold Coast - i.e. that those towns on the Gold Coast (such as Axim) were somehow comparable to Benin City - was simply a liar or had never been to Benin City, hence his criticism of Bosman.

The translation by Selena Axelrod Winsnes of this same passage in her translation (published in 2000) of Ludwig Rømer's book A Reliable Account of the Coast of Guinea (1760) is much more accurate in conveying what the Englishman was complaining about to Rømer, and it conveys the sense of the whole statement much more lucidly, whereas the article above seems to just get the translation wrong on that point. Winsnes, however, does not provide a very informative footnote (in what is an otherwise excellent and well annotated translation of Rømer's book) to that passage, and incorrectly states that Bosman's book never compared anywhere on the Gold Coast to Benin City, whereas in fact a comparison of Axim's architecture to Benin City's architecture is made in at least one edition.

IDENNAA:



Nobody would insult you if you make an unfounded claim , such as Onicha has Bini ancestry, rather he would gladly ask you to show the tiniest proof. Of course , you have no proof , however, your only support is " they said" ....nothing more and you think you deserve respect.

The problem with you Bini people is that you dare try to over emphasize, over state and over hype your little village chiefdom , though you have little to prove your purported greatness and influence....your language is barely alive, nigga! Abeg , go bow to your Oba and leave us alone.

I see your agenda to turn this thread to a tribal war aint working........

We didnt conquer onitscha or even rule over them
But one little things is if you kings later mention they have any link to benins
You will run mad.... For helping them denial it

Inshort how can a small village with 7localgovt be saying they ruled igbos at a time is that not nsanity in its highest

Sorry o, benin never at one time ruled igbos it was a lie

Before you go change thread for our head

SilverSniper:


Jacob Egharevba was the first Nigerian historian to mention such a link in modern times.

Dmitri Bondarenko, who you have repeatedly cited, co-authored an entire article proposing exactly what you are ridiculing here.

You can read the article below by Bondarenko and his co-authors, and you can see his citations of Egharevba's work:

https://www.academia.edu/1903862/Ludewig_Ferdinand_R%C3%B6mers_Nachrichten_von_der_K%C3%BCste_Guinea_Mid-18th_Century_as_a_Source_on_the_Benin_Kingdom_History_and_Culture

I have no special interest one way or the other whether or not such a proposed link really has some basis, personally. I'm just letting you know that both Jacob Egharevba (drawing upon oral tradition) and now Dmitri Bondarenko (drawing upon both published oral traditions from different groups and older European documents) thought such a link to be entirely plausible and based on something real.

A note about at least one thing in the article itself: Roese (and Roese) and Bondarenko's suggestion that "Dahomey = Dauma" (the Dauma indicated on some old maps) is an idea that was refuted by some other researchers decades ago, but they may not have read the articles which explain that it is a reference to a different place.

But such hypotheses are rejected by the testimony of those people themselves.

Isn't that all that matters??

TAO11:


Bro, with due respect I think you've read too much of websites like "edo-nation", "edoworld" "edoblog", etc.

There is no evidence that even suggests any such tribal connection between Benin kingdom and Togo or Ghana. It's one of the many jokes by those aforementioned websites.

Language is a key factor that quickly indicates such connection if any. But Edoid languages aren't spoken by any group (or sub-group) as an indigenous language anywhere outside of Nigeria.

Not only that, those people themselves don't talk of any such connection. And there is no reason why they would normally want to actively disconnect themselves from their own history if it were the case.

In contrast, an Ife subgroup known simply as the Ife people (or sometimes the Ana people) are still found till date in Togo with their proud Yoruba identity.

The Ga people of Ghana (whom the aforementioned edo websites often claim Benin kingdom to have tribal connection with) actually have something else to say.

See the attachment below. For some strange reasons I am not allowed to post those words here directly.

In fact, the Ooni of Ife was seen recently in Ghana to install a particular tribal King there. I will post a link to the video if I find it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd7ZUEvhyRc

Cheers!

I made a simple submission. That we should let people define themselves.

I read a few first lines and I did not watch the video clip. I heard Ooni visited Ghana and gave some titles at one time? Is that the video clip? Is that true? I am way to busy to follow every thing everyone comes up with. 9 years of doing so is a long time.

But let people define themselves. That was my message to Meles.

AreaFada2:

I made a simple submission. That we should let people define themselves.

I read a few first lines and I did not watch the video clip. I heard Ooni visited Ghana and gave some titles at one time? Is that the video clip? Is that true? I am way to busy to follow every thing everyone comes up with. 9 years of doing so is a long time.

But let people define themselves. That was my message to Meles.

And those people of Togo and Ghana have defined themselves.

So let them be the Yorubas they claimed they are in peace.

AreaFada2:

I made a simple submission. That we should let people define themselves.

I read a few first lines and I did not watch the video clip. I heard Ooni visited Ghana and gave some titles at one time? Is that the video clip? Is that true? I am way to busy to follow every thing everyone comes up with. 9 years of doing so is a long time.

But let people define themselves. That was my message to Meles.

What Benin history is doing to some people on this thread is unbelievable. First, I took the debates/arguments as a friendly banter, but I am now really worried and praying that some people don't end up bursting a vein or an artery.

The rates at which they jump into any historical accounts of Benin to discredit them is shocking, including those that have quoted from history books that contain the accounts they are discrediting.

I noticed someone else has also joined the fray and stoking ethnic fire from the east on the account of what Dr Azikiwe wrote in his autobiography.

You would have thought that these people should have problems with Zik on the book he authored himself but instead they are having issues with Benin that never contributed to the book nor co-authored it.

The reeling out of Benin past glories from European historical books and archives seems to be causing so much heartaches in some people. They don't seem to be taking it well.

Every historical account they try to discredit is replaced with another revelation of great achievement.

From Benin/Ife relationship, the debate moved on to:

1. The Benin military machine
2. Benin/Oyo relationship
3. Benin/eastern Yoruba relationship
4. Benin occupation of Lagos as far back as 1603 5. Benin architecture
6. Street lights
7. The Benin Wall with very few to equal the achievement in the world and certainly incomparable to no man made structure in Africa
8. The Benin artworks that adores museums across the world
9. The very advanced and sophisticated complex administrative system of government.
10. Bight of Benin from which republic of Benin took it's name.

And much more.

As all these historical accounts and achievements are being revealed, all you see are comments and reactions filled with hate and jealousy from those that want to steal the history and facing resistance to those that have nothing to showcase from their past.

History is history, there are nothing these people can do about it. The fact remains that Benin remains the only place in Nigeria with perhaps the oldest and most comprehensive written historical eyewitness accounts.

Europeans have been writing and documenting Benin history for almost 600 years and there are thousands of Benin artworks across the globe showcasing the civilisation that these ignorant bigots are working tirelessly to diminished, downplay and undermined.

Benin have more than enough in European archives and museums for future generations to educate themselves on, so the nonsense here on nairaland hardly count, any efforts made here to distort Benin illustrious history will only amount to exercise in futility because Benin history is a global history

Benin written history is over four hundred years ahead of it's competitors.

People are free to open a thread to glorify and reminisce their past rather than starting threads to exercise their bigotry towards Benin.

TAO11:


And those people of Togo and Ghana have defined themselves.

So let them be the Yorubas they claimed they are in peace.

Oh for sure!

My Ga (from Accra area of Ghana) inlaws who claimed Benin ancestry about 25 years without being prompted and anyone claiming anything should be allowed to define themselves. The current Ga people claiming Benin should be allowed too. We are not competing for Olympic Medals.

Late President Gnasigbe Eyadema and his people of Togo who traced their roots to Edo almost 50 years ago, should also be allowed. Oba of Lagos (both the departed Oba Oyekan & current Oba Akiolu) should be allowed.

At the end, that's how it should be. I believe no objective person should have any problem with that.

AreaFada2:


Oh for sure!

My Ga (from Accra area of Ghana) inlaws who claimed Benin ancestry about 25 years without being prompted and anyone claiming anything should be allowed to define themselves. The current Ga people claiming should be allowed too. We are not competing for Olympic Medals.

Late President Gnasigbe Eyadema of Togo who traced his roots to Edo almost 50 years ago, should also be allowed. Oba of Lagos (both the departed Oba Oyekan & current Oba Akiolu) should be allowed.

At the end, that's how it should be. I believe no objective person should have any problem with that.

Your unverifiable "Ga in-law" that only you know of.
Vs.
The testimony of the supreme King of the Ga people that I shared and which you can verify.


Also

Your alleged and unreferenced claim about the LATE president of Togo.
Vs.
The Ife (or the Ana) people of Togo who exist till date that you can verify.


Wehdone Sir!

samuk:


What Benin history are doing to some people on this thread is unbelievable. First, I took the debates/arguments as a friendly banter, but I am now really worried and praying that some people don't end up bursting a vein or an artery.

The rates at which they jump into any historical accounts of Benin to discredit them is shocking, including those that have quoted from history books that contain the accounts they are discrediting.

I noticed someone else has just joined the fray and stocking ethnic fire from the east on the account of what Dr Azikiwe wrote in his autobiography.

You would have thought that these people should have problems with Zik on the book he authored himself but instead they are having issues with Benin that never contributed to the book nor co-authored it.

The reeling out of Benin past glories from European historical books and archives seems to be causing so much heartaches in some people. They don't seem to be taking it well.

Every historical account they try to discredit is replaced with another revelation of great achievement.

From Benin/Ife relationship, the debate moved on to:

1. The Benin military machine
2. Benin/Oyo relationship
3. Benin/eastern Yoruba relationship
4. Benin occupation of Lagos as far back as 1603 5. Benin architecture
6. Street lights
7. The Benin Wall with very few to equal the achievement in the world and certainly incomparable to no man made structure in Africa
8. The Benin artworks that adores museums across the world
9. The very advanced and sophisticated complex administrative system of government.
10. Bight of Benin from which republic of Benin took it's name.

And much more.

As all these historical accounts and achievements are being revealed, all you see are comments and reactions filled with hate and jealousy from those that want to steal the history and facing resistance to those that have nothing to showcase from their past.

History is history, there are nothing these people can do about it. The fact remains that Benin remains the only place in Nigeria with perhaps the oldest and most comprehensive written historical eyewitness accounts.

Europeans have been writing and documenting Benin history for almost 600 years and there are thousands of Benin artworks across the globe showcasing the civilisation that these ignorant bigots are working tirelessly to diminished, downplay and undermined.

Benin have more than enough in European archives and museums for future generations to educate themselves on, so the nonsense here on nairaland hardly count, any efforts made here to distort Benin illustrious history will only amount to exercise in futility because Benin history is a global history

Benin written history is over four hundred years ahead of it's competitors.

People are free to open a thread to glorify and reminisce their past rather than starting threads to exercise their bigotry towards Benin.

Bruv, what people do not realize is that dissing Benin empire just bring out more details about Benin. There are many silent readers here.

Discerning minds will wonder why some people of other tribes are now so avowed to denigrate Benin history. They just begin threads just for that purpose. Including those written centuries ago and more recent ones.

It's like those people who have their nude pictures released on-line to spite them. So it surprisingly turns them into stars. If people dissing Benin think they want to denigrate Benin, they are achieving the total opposite.

samuk:


What Benin history is doing to some people on this thread is unbelievable. First, I took the debates/arguments as a friendly banter, but I am now really worried and praying that some people don't end up bursting a vein or an artery.

The rates at which they jump into any historical accounts of Benin to discredit them is shocking, including those that have quoted from history books that contain the accounts they are discrediting.

I noticed someone else has also joined the fray and stoking ethnic fire from the east on the account of what Dr Azikiwe wrote in his autobiography.

You would have thought that these people should have problems with Zik on the book he authored himself but instead they are having issues with Benin that never contributed to the book nor co-authored it.

The reeling out of Benin past glories from European historical books and archives seems to be causing so much heartaches in some people. They don't seem to be taking it well.

Every historical account they try to discredit is replaced with another revelation of great achievement.

From Benin/Ife relationship, the debate moved on to:

1. The Benin military machine
2. Benin/Oyo relationship
3. Benin/eastern Yoruba relationship
4. Benin occupation of Lagos as far back as 1603 5. Benin architecture
6. Street lights
7. The Benin Wall with very few to equal the achievement in the world and certainly incomparable to no man made structure in Africa
8. The Benin artworks that adores museums across the world
9. The very advanced and sophisticated complex administrative system of government.
10. Bight of Benin from which republic of Benin took it's name.

And much more.

As all these historical accounts and achievements are being revealed, all you see are comments and reactions filled with hate and jealousy from those that want to steal the history and facing resistance to those that have nothing to showcase from their past.

History is history, there are nothing these people can do about it. The fact remains that Benin remains the only place in Nigeria with perhaps the oldest and most comprehensive written historical eyewitness accounts.

Europeans have been writing and documenting Benin history for almost 600 years and there are thousands of Benin artworks across the globe showcasing the civilisation that these ignorant bigots are working tirelessly to diminished, downplay and undermined.

Benin have more than enough in European archives and museums for future generations to educate themselves on, so the nonsense here on nairaland hardly count, any efforts made here to distort Benin illustrious history will only amount to exercise in futility because Benin history is a global history

Benin written history is over four hundred years ahead of it's competitors.

People are free to open a thread to glorify and reminisce their past rather than starting threads to exercise their bigotry towards Benin.

Hahahaha!

I frustrated somebody. I didnt leave one stone of his lies unturned.

Moving on ...
AreaFada2, see another verifiable testimony, this time around from Togo/Benin Republic --- the Ana people.

Notice that the testimonies I'm alluding to are not from "my in-laws" whom no one can cross-check with. Lol.

These are public testimonies. And I think it's only fair that you should let these people speak for themselves.

TAO11:


Hahahaha!

I frustrated somebody. I didnt leave one stone of his lies unturned.

Moving on ...
AreaFada2, see another verifiable testimony, this time around from Togo/Benin Republic --- the Ana people.

Notice that the testimonies I'm alluding to are not from "my in-laws" whom no one can cross-check with. Lol.

These are public testimonies. And I think it's only fair that you should let these people speak for themselves.

to back ur point about the word oba in Yoruba and baa. For example baale is used in Yoruba for a person who preside over a community or head of a community. Even baale(ba ile) is also the head of an household or king in the house. Balogun is a Yoruba military rank of someone who preside over war basically the head. The word ba and oba is and cannot be separated from Yoruba lexicon and each times no Matter how it’s use it always connotes leadership(a head) of something or someplace. Oba Lori ngbogbo literally means he who rules over everything. Also if u greet a Yoruba king and say kabiesi, the reply by his chiefs and others is oba n ki oo. Our Yoruba brothers in Benin and togo who don’t know if anyone names Benin exist use Oba. Compare that to edo lies of shining light or white and u know something is up. Benin word for king is ogie and when ginuwa became king in itsekiri he was rightly called ogiamen king of the water just like edo use to call their king ogiso.

AreaFada2:


Well, thank you Mr Meles. First this was a thread began by a Yoruba person.

While Benin people generally feel comfortable with both East & West, and culture has flowed both ways over the centuries, Benin and Yoruba are genetically and philologically different people. Like royalties across the world over millenniums, the royal houses clearly have blood links.

Benin therefore are not junior or senior to anyone in modern times. Even imperial exploits do not necessarily confer seniority in modern times. For example it's entirely up to Olu of Warri & Oba of Lagos families how they want to relate to Benin. While both currently consider Oba of Benin as sitting on their father's throne (I can forward links of Olu & Eleko saying so in videos if anybody wants), in 100 years their descendants can deny it and we would be fine with that too.

You will hardly ever see Benin starting threads to claim seniority. History is what it is. History. But equally Benin will not take distortion of history without a robust reply.

Anyone out to wage supremacy war has only set out to fail. It's fundamental human desire for people to choose their affiliation and how they want to define and express themselves.

As of now, we are reaching out to people we believe we have historical links with. From Niger Delta, to Lagos to Togo/Ghana. It's up to those people to confirm their kinship with us based on their own history passed on to them by their forebears. That's has been the case largely in Bayelsa & Rivers. Not by force.

Going forward, I respect how passionately people care about promotion of their culture. At the end. everyone learns from it. Hopefully that builds mutual respect irrespective of agreement or disagreement.

@bolded from what I read and see is like taking the thread back to square one.

Yorubas here has fully agreed that Benins are their blood and the argument is just all about prowess and the rest. More like a man with two wives who gave birth and died without putting things in order and both now quarrels over seniority and order.

Nevertheless since Yorubas has gladly accepted that Benin is their own flesh, you should do same and watch the thread end because all the to and fro argument ends up digging up binding factor more and more.

Yorubas lay claim to Togo/Accra
Benins lays claim to Togo/Accra

Does this not tell you something. It simply means you all are just one blood.

Enough said.

AreaFada2:

I made a simple submission. That we should let people define themselves.

I read a few first lines and I did not watch the video clip. I heard Ooni visited Ghana and gave some titles at one time? Is that the video clip? Is that true? I am way to busy to follow every thing everyone comes up with. 9 years of doing so is a long time.

But let people define themselves. That was my message to Meles.

I studied Geography the possibilities benins migrated into those areas is very slim, there is high probability that the yoruba people did the migration that will take place in benin would be within nigeria and not outside it

Dont see me as an hater of my own people because am saying the truth, i just love the truth than the lies


Yea you meant edo sounding names in other africa countries but we also have edo sounding names in Japan too can we now call them edo migrant
Yea, which africa countries wouldnt want to associate thier ethnic group, to a country that was named after a small tribe, i guess everyone would want to....

You can take a nigerian map and an african map and compare areas in nigeria which border other African countries you will see, they are more yorubas and the northern people, edo on the otherhand borders the ocean


I staged you on the fact of benin and ife relationship and i gave you books to read to see for yourself, benin-ife never had any relationship
Oduduwa was just a political staged stunt pulled by both oba of benin and alafin of oyo against ooni of ife, which later turned against oba of benin

Samuk
Davidnazee
Ghostwon

gregyboy:



I studied Geography the possibilities benins migrated into those areas is very slim, there is high probability that the yoruba people did the migration that will take place in benin would be within nigeria and not outside it

Dont see me as an hater of my own people because am saying the truth, i just love the truth than the lies


Yea you meant edo sounding names in other africa countries but we also have edo sounding names in Japan too can we now call them edo migrant
Yea, which africa countries wouldnt want to associate thier ethnic group, to a country that was named after a small tribe, i guess everyone would want to....

You can take a nigerian map and an african map and compare areas in nigeria which border other African countries you will see, they are more yorubas and the northern people, edo on the otherhand borders the ocean


I staged you on the fact of benin and ife relationship and i gave you books to read to see for yourself, benin-ife never had any relationship
Oduduwa was just a political staged stunt pulled by both oba of benin and alafin of oyo against ooni of ife, which later turned against oba of benin

Samuk
Davidnazee
Ghostwon

Where was Orhogbua when news of his father's demise go to him? Which river in Africa was he at?
Lagos is far from Benin by those days standards. Why was it not planted by nearby Ijebu or Egba that planted their monarchy and organised Lagos?
Why will Ghana now be the one they reach first?

By your logic some would say Benin were not seafaring people and could not have reached Lagos. But there is clear evidence Benin did.

Yoruba want us to believe Oduduwa came from Egypt or Mesopotamia or Israel yet Benin cannot reach Ghana? Really?

Benin had Ozigue (majorly Ijaw people) at it's disposal.

As for Benin reaching out to Ga and others, I won't reveal more details despite being goaded to. Because it seems many want to double-cross.

I heard of Ooni visit to claim Ga before. But I didn't believe it. I guess the clip upload here is probably it. I still have not watch it. I write in between a busy schedule.

Let everyone do their own reaching out. Let the truth win in the end.

I do not need a map. I have travelled that area: Ivory Coast, Ghana, Togo and Benin is like backyard to me.

I did not study geography. But by class 4 we knew the capitals of all American States, capital of all African states, and much of regional geography. Complete with maps.

Be it ship building in Japan, logging in New Foundland, sheep farming in New Zealand, etc.

So profound was our secondary geography that a geography graduate of nowadays will have to be careful challenging the level of then.

Let me stop not to come across as showing off.

IDENNAA:



Nobody would insult you if you make an unfounded claim , such as Onicha has Bini ancestry, rather he would gladly ask you to show the tiniest proof. Of course , you have no proof , however, your only support is " they said" ....nothing more and you think you deserve respect.

The problem with you Bini people is that you dare try to over emphasize, over state and over hype your little village chiefdom , though you have little to prove your purported greatness and influence....your language is barely alive, nigga! Abeg , go bow to your Oba and leave us alone.

Mumu boy


Benin didnt rule igbos can you now take your 500 local govt area that is as big as the entire u. S. A
Out of this thread before you derail it


Bye bye....... Go off to igbo thread.....

Go and fight for your people who are been killed in South africa and dragged out in china

Igbo boy be looking for attention from a beni-yoruba thread

AreaFada2:

Where was Orhogbua when news of his father's demise go to him? Which river in Africa was he at?
Lagos is far from Benin by those days standards. Why was it not planted by nearby Ijebu or Egba that planted their monarchy and organised Lagos?
Why will Ghana now be the one they reach first?

By your logic some would say Benin were not seafaring people and could not have reached Lagos. But there is clear evidence Benin did.

Yoruba want us to believe Oduduwa came from Egypt or Mesopotamia or Israel yet Benin cannot reach Ghana? Really?

Benin had Ozigue (majorly Ijaw people) at it's disposal.

As for Benin reaching out to Ga and others, I won't reveal more details despite being goaded to. Because it seems many want to double-cross.

I heard of Ooni visit to claim Ga before. But I didn't believe it. I guess the clip upload here is probably it. I still have not watch it. I write in between a busy schedule.

Let everyone do their own reaching out. Let the truth win in the end.

I do not need a map. I have travelled that area: Ivory Coast, Ghana, Togo and Benin is like backyard to me.

I did not study geography. But by class 4 we knew the capitals of all American States, capital of all African states, and much of regional geography. Complete with maps.

Be it ship building in Japan, logging in New Foundland, sheep farming in New Zealand, etc.

So profound was our secondary geography that a geography graduate of nowadays will have to be careful challenging the level of then.

Let me stop not to come across as showing off.

The truth is, even the Benin of this generation will have to expand their own knowledge of ancient Benin.

Who would have thought it possible that:

1. The Oba of Benin once had a standing army of up to 20,000 soldiers and additional 100,000 on standby should the need arises for their deployment, if the Europeans who visited Benin themselves didn't write it down.

2. That by 1603, a European that visited Lagos saw a Benin military garrison with strong fences that houses no one else but Benin soldiers and their commanders, who despatched messages to the Oba of Benin daily. This was over a century before Benin established the current Lagos royal dynasty.

3. That the Benin wall/moat was greater than any human structure ever made at that time in Africa, Europe, Asia, etc. If the Europeans didn't do their independent measurements and investigations who would have known.

4. That Benin was among the very few cities in the world to have the semblance of street lights.

5. I never even knew that Benin was a major supplier of guns especially to the Yorubas, so much so, that the Yoruba kiriji war took it's name from the sound of the Benin guns.

6. Hundreds of years ago Benin was already manufacturing iron poles of 20 feet high to house oil lamps to light strategic locations in the city.

So even the Benins, have to start expanding what they thought was not previously possible achievements by the Benin empire.

It's a shame that we have to start interrogating European archives for recorded eyewitness accounts of our past historical achievements.

If we try to see old Benin with the mediocre standard that the current Nigeria state is, we are going to miss the point. So we must be guided.

AreaFada2:

Where was Orhogbua when news of his father's demise go to him? Which river in Africa was he at?
Lagos is far from Benin by those days standards. Why was it not planted by nearby Ijebu or Egba that planted their monarchy and organised Lagos?
Why will Ghana now be the one they reach first?

By your logic some would say Benin were not seafaring people and could not have reached Lagos. But there is clear evidence Benin did.

Yoruba want us to believe Oduduwa came from Egypt or Mesopotamia or Israel yet Benin cannot reach Ghana? Really?

Benin had Ozigue (majorly Ijaw people) at it's disposal.

As for Benin reaching out to Ga and others, I won't reveal more details despite being goaded to. Because it seems many want to double-cross.

I heard of Ooni visit to claim Ga before. But I didn't believe it. I guess the clip upload here is probably it. I still have not watch it. I write in between a busy schedule.

Let everyone do their own reaching out. Let the truth win in the end.

I do not need a map. I have travelled that area: Ivory Coast, Ghana, Togo and Benin is like backyard to me.

I did not study geography. But by class 4 we knew the capitals of all American States, capital of all African states, and much of regional geography. Complete with maps.

Be it ship building in Japan, logging in New Foundland, sheep farming in New Zealand, etc.

So profound was our secondary geography that a geography graduate of nowadays will have to be careful challenging the level of then.

Let me stop not to come across as showing off.

No record was shown that benin ruled or had anyform of migration into those areas if benins were sold as slaves there might be a reconsideration of slaved ships dropping them off over those area

Abeg our oba should tells why he twisted the ekaladeran story with egharevba and try to attach ughoton to ife....

We dont even know were we migrated from but we already claiming another tribe from another country

Is that not hyper tribalism

As for this one, am supporting yorubas for it,

Thats how one other benin guy was claiming benin sold themselves to slavery just for his tribal bigotry

AreaFada2:

Where was Orhogbua when news of his father's demise go to him? Which river in Africa was he at?
Lagos is far from Benin by those days standards. Why was it not planted by nearby Ijebu or Egba that planted their monarchy and organised Lagos?
Why will Ghana now be the one they reach first?

By your logic some would say Benin were not seafaring people and could not have reached Lagos. But there is clear evidence Benin did.

Yoruba want us to believe Oduduwa came from Egypt or Mesopotamia or Israel yet Benin cannot reach Ghana? Really?

Benin had Ozigue (majorly Ijaw people) at it's disposal.

As for Benin reaching out to Ga and others, I won't reveal more details despite being goaded to. Because it seems many want to double-cross.

I heard of Ooni visit to claim Ga before. But I didn't believe it. I guess the clip upload here is probably it. I still have not watch it. I write in between a busy schedule.

Let everyone do their own reaching out. Let the truth win in the end.

I do not need a map. I have travelled that area: Ivory Coast, Ghana, Togo and Benin is like backyard to me.

I did not study geography. But by class 4 we knew the capitals of all American States, capital of all African states, and much of regional geography. Complete with maps.

Be it ship building in Japan, logging in New Foundland, sheep farming in New Zealand, etc.

So profound was our secondary geography that a geography graduate of nowadays will have to be careful challenging the level of then.

Let me stop not to come across as showing off.

I said long ago that there is something wrong with gregyboy and nobody listened. He has a very low self-esteem and he is unstable stupid and mentally ill. By the way I showed several precolonial maps showing the extent of Benin empire.
You guys can look at my posts to get the maps.

ghostwon:

I said long ago that there is something wrong with gregyboy and nobody listened. He has a very low self-esteem. By the way I showed several precolonial maps showing the extent of Benin empire.

Talk with fact and tales


You have issues with me speak out, i dont agree with most of everything you say because you speak fairytales.....

I had ask you explain why you felt oghene never existed you dished out, you also claim ekaladeran never existed too i

You need to be checked


Am not a bigot like the rest of you am a humanist
I support the truth regardless were its coming from.....

If you wanna prove a point benin stretches over those areas prove it, instead of insulting me

gregyboy:



Talk with fact and tales

Shut your mouth, idiot.
You know you are a bastard and a fool pretending to be intelligent.
There was no Oduduwa, but that doesn't warrant all the insults you are levelling against our emperor and all the attacks you are levelling against the Edo.
Basically you are a fool and the earlier you shut your mouth, the better. For years you claim one thing, then suddenly a shitty article is written then you change your speech entirely ! Like a controlled robot. I have always said oduduwa is a fairytale with proof, but since I am not an article you never listened. I produced several documents showing the extent of Benin empire, but since I am not an article you wouldn't listen. One day you might want to reveal your true identity, because your level of stupidity looks imaginary. Bigger traitor than you, I have never seen. It seems you only live to troll while claiming different identities.

davidnazee:


This your comment just brought a question to my mind to as the Yorubas.

The early Europeans never mentioned the name Ife in their writings and binis never mentioned Ife but uhe.
So please Yoruba people, what was the early name of Ife?? If it has always been called Ife then the place mentioned by the early writers and bini was not Ife because they couldn’t have mistaken the name for another name.

no ife was mentioned and no uhe was mentioned either.

It will take time to get you guys in the right direction of speaking based on logics and facts, not legends nor low self-esteem. I keep speaking with reason only to be ignored by those who are too versed in legend talking. All one needs is to take a look at my posts to direct him or her into the right direction and learn how to think properly and also not to fall into the traps and lies set up by the yar.iba.

The thing is Benin has a real history while the Yoruba don't.
The Yoruba compensate their lack of history by peddling myths all the time and claiming Benin for authenticity.
The weird thing is that the Edo, instead of relying on their history and logics, you join the history-less Yoruba into fairytale discussion ! While you don't need to be discussing fairytale, you actually have a real history ! Don't bring yourself down to their level.
And sorry to say this but you guys need to rethink your knowledge acquisition process. Many times you very easily fall into the traps of the yar.iba and basically take some of their unsubstantiated claims as true. Intelligence, logics are needed. Blind and stupid talk is the tool of the yar.iba, not the Edo. We have actual history, consult it ! Use your brains.