₦airaland Forum

gregyboy:
[s]Lol, atleast support it first with archeological fact that it was also used in ife..... Before we can trace its invention[/s]

gregyboy:
Lol, the current oba of lagos is the guy on the picture below and he dressed in his benin royal regalia.....

Ok lawani you were missed you left TAO11 to be battered by Etinosa1234

Anyway if i have to take your word serious post an article or statement from the current oba of lagos claiming ijesha heriage

TAO12:
I need an article from 1475 to 1914 which says that Ada and Akpe were invented by Benin. Mumu boy!

Binis be adducing their dumbness as supporting evidence for their pathetic positions.

bleeped up people.


... So, as I was saying before I was rudely interrupted by a scum...

TAO12:
You must first demonstrate that the criterion you requested is not as shitty as you yourself before you ask others to meet it.

Your claim is that Benin and not Ife originally owned the royal emblems. You have to prove your own claim first.

A picture or plaque showing the emblems proves absolutely nothing about your claim of original invention.

I will be waiting on you.

While waiting on you to get out of the trap you've set for yourself, be reminded that the Benin account makes it clear that the royal emblems were introduced to "Benin" by Ogiso Ere.

However, we know from the works of the most prominent and prolific historian of Benin Kingdom alive -- D. M. Bondarenko -- that Ogiso Ere was an Ode-Yoruba sent from Ife to oversee the administration of "Benin".

cc: RuggedSniper, lawani, MetaPhysical, gomojam

gregyboy:
[s]When its come to benin - ife relationship quote me an article dating frim 1475 to 1897 apart from that the rest are rubbish they are author that never experienced the account they are detailing about.....
So take your D. M. Bondarenko account off my mention i still stand with the fact thst benin-ife never had any relationship, and oduduwa was just a diety and the yorubas were never under ife at anytime

So stop quoting me works of new era scholars

Putting that aside.... You didn't bring me archaeological evidence showing ada and eben was also used in ife or atleast a written document From samuel johnson account or samuel Crowther account supporting it since they were Yoruba earliest scholars , if we cant establish the fact that both party used ada and eben at a time how can we now ascertain its originality between both party

I gave you an archaeological evidence dating 15c supporting it was used in benin i was expecting yours but instead you gave me rant......[/s]

TAO12:
(1) Lmao at trans. Anyway, you forgot to tell him that you're gay. At least that was confirmed by you yourself when you were once describing gay joints.

(2) Why are you so dead-scared of me? Is it because of how I tear Benin Kingdom apart? Don't worry I will soon leave Nairaland. I know Binis will hold a fest if I eventually leave. Anyways, I will be here for a long time. Year 2030 will only be the beginning.

(3) You smelly-mouthed, janus-faced, fatuous, pathetic lair. Where did I ever have such discussion as the bolded with you. Attach a screenshot, or a link or both to where I discusses the bolded with you. Olodo. Atoole. Benin Kingdom obviously needs pathetic liars like you.

I was already considering your application to be naturalized as a Lagosian, but you just ruined your chance with this big lie. You lie through your teeth shamelessly. Scum of the earth.



There wasn't a single time when a Bini became king in Lagos. Not once. The first king of the present Lagos dynasty is Yoruba. The claim of the Benin account is unfounded. Refer above to see the latest spanking received by your Lagosian-wanna-be brother.

The relationship between the Lagos royalty and the Benin royalty is completely different from what you Edos wish it was. It began purely as a political alliance and then got consolidated through marriage. You all must stop dreaming.

Moreover, the royal emblem which Oba Akiolu is holding is an indigenous Yoruba emblem of office called Akpe by the Yorubas. They are original despatched from Ife in ancient times alongside the Ada/Ida another ceremonial 'sword'.

The Ada & Eben, as the Binis call them, were first introduced to Benin from Ife by Ogiso Ere who is an Ife-Yoruba emissary sent to oversee Igodomigodo. I have beaten you black and blue on this before.

To be fair, it is not impossible that the present Lagos dynasty obtained its own from Benin considering the political and familial connection that later played out.

This is however by no means the same thing as your shallow conclusion that Ada & Eben (as the Binis call it) was invented by Benin. No, ifor the umpteenth time time it was introduced to Benin itself from the Yoruba center of civilization -- Ife. And the Lagos use could have survived from the earlier Lagos dynasty prior to Ashipa himself, it could also have been the result of cultural accretion from Benin.

For a certainty, however, the present Lagos dynasty is purely of Yoruba patrilineal blood from Ashipa himself (an Awori), and so on to Olokun-Kutere (an Ijesa), and so on till date. There is no Benin patrilineal blood whatsoever in that royal line anywhere from the beginning till date.

These ceremonial emblems are originally known throughout Yorubaland as Ada-Ogun & Akpe with the Ada-Ogun coming later to be associated with another later war personage in Yoruba history, i.e. Oranmiyan. Thus these emblems came to be know as Ida-Oranmiyan & Akpe.

Other Yoruba kingdoms have variant names for the "Ada"/"Ida" such as "Agada" or "Ele" as is popular among the Ijebus. Samples of the Ada Ogun ceremonial sword can be seen in Museums across the world.

Refer to the attachment below to behold the despatch of Ada & Akpe from Ife to Sir Kesington A. Adebutu of Ijebu-IperuRemo during his installation as the Odole Oodua.

cc: RuggedSniper, lawani, MetaPhysical, BabaRamota1980, gomojam

TAO12:
You must first demonstrate that the criterion you requested is not as shitty as you yourself before you ask others to meet it.

Your claim is that Benin and not Ife originally owned the royal emblems. You have to prove your own claim first.

A picture or plaque showing the emblems proves absolutely nothing about your claim of original invention.

I will be waiting on you.

While waiting on you to get out of the trap you've set for yourself, be reminded that the Benin account makes it clear that the royal emblems were introduced to "Benin" by Ogiso Ere.

However, we know from the works of the most prominent and prolific historian of Benin Kingdom alive -- D. M. Bondarenko -- that Ogiso Ere was an Ode-Yoruba sent from Ife to oversee the administration of "Benin".

gomojam:
That thick head is a fraud. He always need articles or evidence as if he was a thesis supervisor. Who knows maybe he is collating materials to write some fictionalized Benin version of The Game of Throne.

Since he is too lazy, as proven so far, to source for materials independently, he keeps creating silly threads with sillier claims that will incite debates (with proves, evidence, citations etc) from which he fraudulently copy paste into his scripts. He no go remember paraphrase am self.

Do not be surprised if you recognize an adaptation of your arguments here by a certain "scholar from Benin" has been transitioned into a blockbuster movie. Netflix, Amazon, Irokotv etc. will scramble for it

Worst of all, being the fraudster that he is, he will never give credit or admit that it is an intellectual property from Nairaland by one "EDUCATOR TAO12. May God bless her"

I just weak when I imagine the scam

davidnazee:
(1) Please is the bold statement a conclusion you arrived at after an extensive research on Benin Kingdom occupation of Lagos? if so please can you quote source(s) to that effect? Because all pages of history says Benin kingdom conquered the Aworis and took over Lagos.

(2) There are accounts from personal journal of the European/Benin soldier Joshua Ulshemier of the military campaigns he participated in alongside Benin Army in conquering Lagos.. He was part of the 10,000 Benin soldiers that bombarded Lagos with heavy canons in the 16th century. Do you say he is lying?

davidnazee:
A summary ....

Etinosa1234:
1) pls post the real page 73 of the book kingdom of The Yoruba by Robert Smith.....its highly needed

2a).. Nonsense as usual..Asheru was killed but ashipa and ado who were Benin became the oba of Lagos..So if asheru was killed and the Benin defeated ..what led to reign of ashipa and ado over Lagos...Tell me...its either u are biased or u lack logical thinking

2b) The account clearly states that it was a lagos impression..Ur people were already subdued and had no hope of a prolonged resistance.. Before u say otherwise ...a European josua ulsheimer who was a witness corroborated this evidence that Lagos was a military camp governed by the king and his four generals.. ..A MILITARY CAMP in ur father's land...u think there will be no fight before it happened

2c)Since it was a doubtful due to the word perhaps...can u show a strong evidence that contradict this humble historian words
..The word perhaps means that... There were be many factors that led to The spread of the Awori and one of them could be the advance of Benin..ie Benin were already coming (it was clearly noted)and they were fleeing..
Since its doubtful according to u... kindly post strong evidence that the spread could not be as a result of Benin advance...if not.. then write up is true...take it to The bank

2d)All are the same...it is more evident that oba orhorgbua was the one who set up a military camp in ur fathers land..I made the mistake saying Erhengbuda...no evidence as such...
except u can provide me one I think

Lol... okobo ..u showed nothing but ur inability to read and understand

Awwwnn...Don't cry abt ur forefathers anymore... I'm sure dey have already moved on..why don't u also do that

gregyboy:
The problem of TAO11 she reads to many scrap from the internet she doesn't have a life about from reading material that will go against benin history.......

Lagos fell under benin control by conquest and paid tribute to the oba before it was later stopped by the British, the British only recognized
Only One king in the entire lagos which was the oba of lagos the others sprung up after 1914

I promise not to argue already settle lagos - benin relationship because without reading your history book reality will stare it at your face

gregyboy:
I know yoy all hate me........ But i love the hate because am the angel if truth.....

Please i need your comment on my new thread on Oduduwa existence thanks #onenigeria

gregyboy:
The criterion is 1475 to 1897 either archaeological or written document proving ownership of ada and eben.....
Which i provided an archaeological evidence of a 15c artworks showinf an ada in a benin artwork

Am still waiting for yours bro

Lawani come help her

gregyboy:
[s]Too much talk and insult bro...... Should i bring European account describing the fact that benin ruled lagos, Or do you want the account fron the mouth of the oba of lagos admiting to the fact

Mind you i dont read you long epistle try to make it short, i barely three sentence the others i left it for you to read for yourself

Tell me the account you need Europeans account Or oba of lagos or both[/s]

TAO12:
In summary, the above examination and careful analysis of the sources reveal the following:

(1) There is not just only one official traditional account describing these Lagos events of around the 1600s, rather there are two of such accounts. While there is the Benin account, there is also the Lagos account.

(2) The Benin account and the Lagos account differ in a number of important respects. While the Benin account lays claim to an outright conquest, the Lagos account talks of a peaceful settling in of greener-pastures seekers.

(3) The Lagos account notes that sometimes after the peaceful settling of the Binis and the rest, some trade conflicts broke out leading the immigrants to be pitched against their host.

(4) This foregoing description of a later conflict, by the Lagos account, is corroborated by Andreas Josua Ulsheimer’s account to the effect that the Bini side to a certain conflict was camped in one of the islands of the then Lagos.

(5) Historians do not know with certainty whether the name “Eko” is purely from Edo or purely from Yoruba. From my careful consideration of the contexts, however, I am drawn to the conclusion that it is not simply one of the two, but both. A phono-semantic matching to be precise.

(6) While the Benin account claims that Ashipa (i.e. the first king of the present dynasty) is a grandson of the then Oba of Benin, the Lagos account identifies him clearly as an Awori-Yoruba of Ife royalty, from Isheri.

(7) While Egharevba’s link of the name “Ashipa” to Edo language is rough (or absurd), a link of the same name to Yoruba language is clear, direct, widespread, and ancient. In fact, it means “one who paves the path (for others)” – i.e. “the leader”.

(8 ) Not only does the above account of Ulsheimer not corroborate the Benin account of royal conquest or colonization, the Benin account of royal conquest is also not supported by the key indicator of such conquests – that is, linguistic indicator.

In other words, there is absolutely no account (oral or documented) of Edo language being spoken in the Lagos palace (or in any part of Lagos for that matter) at any period of history.

(10) Finally, I should add here -- for the sake of completeness -- that the Benin Kingdom later came to be very much involved in the royal family of Lagos.

The first step towards this involvement was initiated by prince Ashipa himself when he sought political alliance with the then Oba of Benin.

The second (and perhaps the sealing step) was also initiated by Ashipa when he got married to a Benin princess.

I appreciate your strong desire to be a Lagosian, but such desire should not be sought desperately by hook or by crook. Doing that only bares your inferiority even further. Take care of yourself.

TAO11:
Ask your brother Etinosa how far! Body don tell am. At least, he pretended to be presenting evidence. Won't you follow suit?



I think you need to see a psychiatrist, no jokes now. You are already exhibiting clear traits of mental disorder. This right here is a clear manifestation of schizophrenia disorder through the messiah complex.

Days ago, you were busy clowning as if with bipolar disorder jumping from "Edeyoung" to "gregybo" and even going to the extent of exchanging comments with yourself.



You must first demonstrate that the criterion you requested is not as shitty as you yourself before you ask others to meet it.

Your claim is that Benin and not Ife originally owned the royal emblems. You have to prove your own claim first.

A picture or plaque showing the emblems proves absolutely nothing about your claim of original invention.

I will be waiting on you.

While waiting on you to get out of the trap you've set for yourself, be reminded that the Benin account makes it clear that the royal emblems were introduced to "Benin" by Ogiso Ere.

However, we know from the works of the most prominent and prolific historian of Benin Kingdom alive -- D. M. Bondarenko -- that Ogiso Ere was an Ife-Yoruba sent from Ife to oversee the administration of "Benin"



There wasn't a single time when a Bini became king in Lagos. Not once. The first king of the present Lagos dynasty is Yoruba. The claim of the Benin account is unfounded. Refer above to see the latest spanking received by your Lagosian-wanna-be brother.

The relationship between the Lagos royalty and the Benin royalty is completely different from what you Edos wish it was. It began purely as a political alliance and then got consolidated through marriage. You all must stop dreaming.

Moreover, the royal emblem which Oba Akiolu is holding is an indigenous Yoruba emblem of office called Akpe by the Yorubas. They are original despatched from Ife in ancient times alongside the Ada/Ida another ceremonial 'sword'.

The Ada & Eben, as the Binis call them, were first introduced to Benin from Ife by Ogiso Ere who is an Ife-Yoruba emissary sent to oversee Igodomigodo. I have beaten you black and blue on this before.

To be fair, it is not impossible that the present Lagos dynasty obtained its own from Benin considering the political and familial connection that later played out.

This is however by no means the same thing as your shallow conclusion that Ada & Eben (as the Binis call it) was invented by Benin. No, ifor the umpteenth time time it was introduced to Benin itself from the Yoruba center of civilization -- Ife. And the Lagos use could have survived from the earlier Lagos dynasty prior to Ashipa himself, it could also have been the result of cultural accretion from Benin.

For a certainty, however, the present Lagos dynasty is purely of Yoruba patrilineal blood from Ashipa himself (an Awori), and so on to Olokun-Kutere (an Ijesa), and so on till date. There is no Benin patrilineal blood whatsoever in that royal line anywhere from the beginning till date.

These ceremonial emblems are originally known throughout Yorubaland as Ada-Ogun & Akpe with the Ada-Ogun coming later to be associated with another later war personage in Yoruba history, i.e. Oranmiyan. Thus these emblems came to be know as Ida-Oranmiyan & Akpe.

Other Yoruba kingdoms have variant names for the "Ada"/"Ida" such as "Agada" or "Ele" as is popular among the Ijebus. Samples of the Ada Ogun ceremonial sword can be seen in Museums across the world.

Refer to the attachment below to behold the despatch of Ada & Akpe from Ife to Sir Kesington A. Adebutu of Ijebu-IperuRemo during his installation as the Odole Oodua.

TAO11:
Refer to the detailed four (4) spankings I gave your brother Etinosa to get yourself some education on the false grandioseness of the Benin account in contrast to the reality of the Lagos account.

TAO11:
All you need to know to kill your ignorance is right in the book you got your attachment from. But will you read? Lol.

I have also helped you with four comprehensive replies which should make comprehension easy for you. It answers all your ignorance. All of them ranging from the fact that:

(1) There is only one page 73 of the book and many of your answers lie there. You just have to be determined enough to want to read it.

(2a) Ashipa is not a Benin but a Yoruba who became the first king of the present dynasty and oi to whom subsequent kings are descended.

(2b) You clearly have no clue what is going on here. The four set of detailed replies to you should have done the magic by now.

(2c) The account of the Benin is obviously not in absolute sync with Robert Smith's interpretation of the historical realities. In order words, this Benin account is doubtful, not only to me, but also by Smith who sees reason not not agree with it as is.

(2d) Egharevba was simply documenting and interpreting the Benin account. There is another different account which speaks something completely different to the same issue -- the Lagos account.

I hope I have been able to force knowledge into your thicks skull. Benin skulls seem to be the thickest. Wow!

gregyboy:
When its come to benin - ife relationship quote me an article dating frim 1475 to 1897 apart from that the rest are rubbish they are author that never experienced the account they are detailing about.....
So take your D. M. Bondarenko account off my mention i still stand with the fact thst benin-ife never had any relationship, and oduduwa was just a diety and the yorubas were never under ife at anytime

So stop quoting me works of new era scholars



Putting that aside.... You didn't bring me archaeological evidence showing ada and eben was also used in ife or atleast a written document From samuel johnson account or samuel Crowther account supporting it since they were Yoruba earliest scholars , if we cant establish the fact that both party used ada and eben at a time how can we now ascertain its originality between both party



I gave you an archaeological evidence dating 15c supporting it was used in benin i was expecting yours but instead you gave me rant......

davidnazee:
A summary ....

MetaPhysical:
I see what you attached, answer the following for me.

1. What is the name of the war of conquest?

2. There is no history of conquest anywhere in the world that does not also go with conversion and ownership of land. Why does Bini not own land in Lagos?

3. How did Bini, a non-water people get to Lagos, a water side?

4. Prior to this conquest, is there any history of the Awori's fighting a war?

5. After this conquest, is there any history of the Awori's fighting a war?


Please do not fail to answer each of this account.

MetaPhysical:
I see what you attached, answer the following for me.

1. What is the name of the war of conquest?

2. There is no history of conquest anywhere in the world that does not also go with conversion and ownership of land. Why does Bini not own land in Lagos?

3. How did Bini, a non-water people get to Lagos, a water side?

4. Prior to this conquest, is there any history of the Awori's fighting a war?

5. After this conquest, is there any history of the Awori's fighting a war?


Please do not fail to answer each of this account.

MetaPhysical:
You will not accept Dmitri's account backed by many world reputable academic institutions but you accepted Olfert Dapper, a writer of fantasy.

Ife is the only civilization in Africa that uses indigeneous Sword as symbol of State Rule. That symbol originated in Ife.

Other civilizations of Africa use machette and spears and arrow as their articles of Kingship.

There is authenticity behind it. What is the authenticity behind Bini sword?

Cc
Tao12

gregyboy:
Lol, jokers


I can come up and say i fathered your children and give some silly prove that they got my looks and truely they really look like me.....
If you wanna prove me wrong you will for a dna test.....

Anyone can claim anything but proves settle it

Quote me works of smauel Johnson that support
Your assertion or samuel crowther then we can talk

If not bye bye with your unfounded claims

MetaPhysical:
We have told you origin of our Sword in Ife.

I separate Bini royalty from Edo slaves like you.

Tell us if Edo has a sword and the origin of it.

I bet since your ancestors were roaming bush nak3d they also carried machette. Machette is not Sword, huge difference between the two.

You can talk about Edo machette but never open your mouth to talk about Bini Sword until you are first permitted by Omo Oba palace to do so.

You can barely get permission to cover your penis in public.....and now you want to talk about Sword.

You freak!

davidnazee:
1. The name was “Benin conquest of Lagos area”

2. Benin don’t own the lands in Lagos anymore just like Britain doesn’t own the lands in Nigeria anymore.. (independence).

3. Is there anything like a non water people? Anyways Benin soldiers were transported by boats.. or you can ask Ulsheimer the European soldier who was part of the Benin Army how he and 10,000 Benin soldiers got to Lagos.

4. Prior to the conquest you can ask the Aworis about their war history, Benin came into the picture after the Aworis settled in the sandy waste by the ocean and conquered them.

5. After the conquest the Awori didn’t fight any war.. can one fight a power greater than him? The Aworis after the conquest could only form “political” party to agitate for rights for the Aworis from their Benin colonial masters.

I hope I have answered your questions.. if you have anymore please ask..

davidnazee:
Very childish post..
Nothing intelligent can come out of frustration and defeat..

MetaPhysical:


I go let Babaramota see how you dey misbehave.

Cc
Babaramota

gomojam:
That thick head is a fraud. He always need articles or evidence as if he was a thesis supervisor. Who knows maybe he is collating materials to write some fictionalized Benin version of The Game of Throne.

Since he is too lazy, as proven so far, to source for materials independently, he keeps creating silly threads with sillier claims that will incite debates (with proves, evidence, citations etc) from which he fraudulently copy paste into his scripts. He no go remember paraphrase am self.

Do not be surprised if you recognize an adaptation of your arguments here by a certain "scholar from Benin" has been transitioned into a blockbuster movie. Netflix, Amazon, Irokotv etc. will scramble for it

Worst of all, being the fraudster that he is, he will never give credit or admit that it is an intellectual property from Nairaland by one "EDUCATOR TAO12. May God bless her"

I just weak when I imagine the scam

davidnazee:
Babaramota the Yoruba native doctor.. him Cain Dey wait for am

MetaPhysical:
1. There is no war fought in Yorubaland that does not have a local name.

Even war we fought with whiteman we gave it local name. Agidingbi!

What is the name of the Benin war in Lagos? If you dont know it dont guess, go and find out and report it here.

2. It's not only in Lagos that Benin doesnt own land.

Even in Edo, its host-land, the Benin Royalty does not own land.

The Idejo Chiefs in Lagos call Oba of Lagos their tenant. Same way Edo Chiefs call Omo Oba a tenant, and as token of his settlement he must first satisfy a rent to Edo before his Coronation can move forward.

Oba of Lagos is a tenant because the royalty came from elsewherw.....in same manner Oba of Benin is tenant in Edo because the royalty came from elsewhere.

3. Yes, there is something as a non-water people. The fight over Gelegele between Benin and Ijaw has to do with access to water.

Benin has no access to water. How did it get to Lagos. Reconstruct the journey, the boatcrew, the war and the conquest. If you do so successfully you will see clearly there is no way Benin fought Awori.


4 and 5. Aworis have never fought a war. Never!

Aworis have been in conflict with others but have never fought a war.



You are about to hear a side of Lagos history you dont know, has never been written and is legitimate and authentic through its oral and cultural facets.

I want you to exhaust yourself first with your hearsay stories before I begin school you on the history of Eko!

There is difference between Omo Eko....and Ara Eko!


Cc
Tao
Tao11
Tao12

davidnazee:
Well one thing is certain; whatever story or version you bring will be regarded as a Yoruba folklore and found only in the minds of Yorubas as you have already agreed your version is oral and cultural. All accounts of recorded history says Great Benin conquered Lagos. And the conquest was witnessed and participated in by Europeans.

Benin didn’t give a name to the war but since you say Yorubas always name wars then you can ask TAO11 what name her ancestors gave to the war Great Benin brought to them, she is the last Aworian

Your talk about water people and non water people is very shallow so say something else..

davidnazee:
Well one thing is certain; whatever story or version you bring will be regarded as a Yoruba folklore and found only in the minds of Yorubas as you have already agreed your version is oral and cultural. All accounts of recorded history says Great Benin conquered Lagos. And the conquest was witnessed and participated in by Europeans.

Benin didn’t give a name to the war but since you say Yorubas always name wars then you can ask TAO11 what name her ancestors gave to the war Great Benin brought to them, she is the last Aworian

Your talk about water people and non water people is very shallow so say something else..