khia:


He won't understand this because he thinks Israel is a land mass.

Exactly! YAKUBI aka JACOB aka YISOLELE aka YAHSHAREL aka ISRAEL is A MAN NOT A LAND.

But dumb black thick-lipped negroes agree with white man that its a land. To them, white man's version of history is the best.

That is why strangers and foreigners easily turn our people against each other. No knowledge of history whatsoever besides the weak misleading school curriculum white man gave them.

Thunder fire white Jesus.

donnie:


Exactly, YAKUBI aka JACOB aka YISOLELE aka YAHSHAREL aka ISRAEL is A MAN NOT A LAND.

But dumb black thick-lipped negroes agree with white man that its a land. To them, white man's version of history is the best.

That is why strangers and foreigners easily turn our people against each other. No knowledge of history whatsoever besides the weak misleading school curriculum white man gave them.

Thunder fire white Jesus.

Yes, Israel are the descendants of Yacob who Yah changed his name to Israel/Yahsharel. That land mass in so called Palestine that the Americans contributed to stealing from the so called Palestinians and naming it ISRAEL in 1948 IS NOT ISRAEL.

jamesid29:
Mr Mutt. I can see you are determined to misrepresent the whole conversation and only present the part you know we both largely agree on while intentionally leaving out the crust of the conversation which was always
.

Maybe you should start reading from where we started and work your way down incase you want to recall what the conversation was about. (Our entire convo was 3 posts in total so it shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes).
https://www.nairaland.com/5602350/where-it-bible#85329096

Or at the very least read the entire statement I made when I briefly touched on the September dating

To your remarks about the September date as the birthday of Christ... I know of it also and I know it's the best bet calculations we have as of today but with a gun to my head, I wouldn't lay my down my life on the certainty of September as the birthday of Christ and I don't know of any body (most of whom accept the September dating) who would stake their careers on saying definitively that September is the exact month Christ was born( the answer is usually " most likely" ).
The problem is with such little information given in the scriptures and very little extra biblical account of his birth written in reliable sources, we are mostly forced to make assumptions in our calculations that can't be proven. It's like accurately calculating the creation date or when exactly the flood of noahs time happened down to the day and month. There's such little information available that it's like trying to pull water from a rock.

For me I like to play such datings safe hence my goto answer being "it's unclear"... but if someone is persistent and just wants a best guess date, I'll say the most likely dating is September with the information we have today but I will still butress my statement with "that's the best answer we have with the assumptions we make currently"
But If you sir are convinced totally with the September dating, that's also fine as either way doesn't touch on the tenets of faith or doctrine

Again this was not the bone of contention... How the date itself was arrived at and if it had its origins with Constantine or paganism was the bone of contention.

And trying to use the part I edited out about how modern people ascribe so many things to Constantine which are not factual (so we don't derail the conversation into another rabbit hole), to seem like I changed my mind and added things to the conversation after the fact when you know that is not true is something I quite frankly didn't expect from you.... but it's all good.

Like I said earlier,it is well... Atleast you guys should stop guilt tripping others with informations that are not historical and factual especially for things that don't add or remove from the major tenets of the faith.

Its MuttleyLaff and not Mr Mutt and also please show where or how I guilt trip anyone. Smh.

donnie:
Africa is a continent housing several nations.

There is Israel, the man (i.e. the patriarch, formerly known as Jacob) and there is Israel, the Nation

donnie:
There is no race called Africa.

To just completely fabricate things, is only what you are good at. Where did you read in this thread or elsewhere anyone saying there is a race called Africa

donnie:
And when I say nations, I don't mean countries o... Olodo.

O ti, you for say motherland/fatherland nah.

The tribe Israel, or Israel, the Nation, is not part of the continent Africa. Israel, is the name by which the Bible calls the tribes, kingdoms and dynasties formed by the ancient Jewish people in the Levant. Israel stands at the crossroads of Europe, Asia and Africa and geographically speaking, belongs to the Asian continent and is very much part of the Middle East region (i.e. Mediterranean Sea region)

khia:
Thank you.

Blind and the blind guide in tow

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khia:
He won't understand this because he thinks Israel is a land mass.

MuttleyLaff:
I DARE YOU TO STAND UP TO ME ON EACH COUNT, I HAVE PUT THAT THERE IS NO ISRAELITE ON EARTH TODAY CAPABLE OF TRACING HIS/HER ISRAELITE ANCESTRY. donnie, I repeat, there is no Israelite alive on earth today, capable of tracing his/her ancestry to Abram/Abraham or Jacob/Israel.

I havent said anything heavy that there is no ISRAELITE on earth today. It is the word of YAH. It is prophecy fulfilled. What the Assyrians didnt finish off, the Romans in 70 AD put the last nail in the coffin of the Israelites.

You are in trouble donnie, your pride and covetousness have pushed you into big big trouble. You and your Ashkenazi Jew brothers are in deep big trouble. You, because of lost identity are creating a nuisance of yourelf, spreading and promoting hate. Your Ashkenazi Jew brothers because of a modern state Israel are terrorising and oppressing the defenceless and unarmed the Palestinian people. Fear YAH now. Fear GOD, donnie.

You need Yahushua Ha Mashiach donnie. You need spiritual detoxification, to get rid of all that spiritual junk you've learned and partaken of. You have allowed racist, toxic behavior, attitudes and negative influences into your life, all which have poisoned your soul, this brought about by little not enough correct knowledge, which of course, is dangerous

"Now, donnie, the fact of the matter and truth is that, Genesis 15:13, had already been fulfilled in Egypt, where it was talking of your seed, Israel, the nation and not your seed, an individual, Isaac/Jacob/Israel, the man."
- Religion / Re: Is The Skin Colour Of Jesus Christ Important? (A Response To Donnie) by MuttleyLaff: 2:29pm On May 12

Smh. What a pity. I will school you on the intricacies of Israel

donnie:
Exactly! YAKUBI aka JACOB aka YISOLELE aka YAHSHAREL aka ISRAEL is A MAN NOT A LAND.

But dumb black thick-lipped negroes agree with white man that its a land. To them, white man's version of history is the best.

That is why strangers and foreigners easily turn our people against each other. No knowledge of history whatsoever besides the weak misleading school curriculum white man gave them.

Listen brother, listen good and take it to the bank, there is no Israelite alive on earth today, capable of tracing his/her ancestry to Abram/Abraham or Jacob/Israel, but here you are donnie, claiming to be from Israel, know the time and route of the migration of your people. OK, if you claim to be of Judah, well, guess what. The same fate that befell Israel/Ephraim (i.e. the 10 northern tribes aka the kingdom of Israel) also caught up with the kingdom of Judah, too (i.e. the southern two tribes, Judah and Benjamin) There is no Israel/Ephraim, there is no Judah, lol.

"But his father said, "Son, I know what I am doing.
It's true that Manasseh's family will someday become a great nation.
But Ephraim will be even greater than Manasseh,
because his descendants will become many great nations (i.e. Gentiles, lol)""
- Genesis 48:19

I pity you donnie. Smh. You really have no idea of what you've set your mind on being a tool in the devil's workshop. Fyi, donnie, to start with, from Genesis 48:19 above, you can see that younger Ephraim and elder brother Manasseh were adopted by Jacob/Israel, to be his children. They took the place of Joseph (i.e. their father) and Levi (i.e. their uncle). donnie, you see in that Genesis 48:19 above , "melo ha goyim" is the original Hebrew text that translate to "great nations", but what actually, it originally means, in Hebrew, is "a fullness of the Gentiles" and there's a very good reason for why Jacob/Israel made that prophetic blessing prayer on Ephraim, lol. Your blinkers will soon fall off, lmao, as this whole matter continues to unfold

donnie:
Thunder fire white Jesus.

There is nothing like a white Jesus. Keep your curse in check

khia:
Yes, Israel are the descendants of Yacob who Yah changed his name to Israel/Yahsharel. That land mass in so called Palestine that the Americans contributed to stealing from the so called Palestinians and naming it ISRAEL in 1948 IS NOT ISRAEL.

Israel aka Ephraim, the Nation of Israel (i.e. the lost ten tribes) was destroyed by the Babylonian. At the time of Yahusha, only the Kingdom of the South, the House of Judah, survived, with the tribes from Benjamin, Levi and Judah, the exiles from the lost tribes returned back to institute sects

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khia:
1. I already answered that question.

2. I know you want me to say Africanus, but it was the Romans.

3. Where in the Mediterranean region is the country Israel located exactly? Where is Israel? You should know this.

MuttleyLaff:
All I want to know from you are:
You, khia, typed:" ... what were Africans before the white man called you African after himself"?
1/ I, MuttleyLaff, ask: What white man called the continent Africa and/or African(s) after himself? What is his name?

2/ Biblically speaking, where, traditionally, is the Passover meant to be celebrated? (i.e. location, the particular place et cetera)
If your answer is Israel, then according to the word of God, the Bible, where specifically in Israel?

I wonder why it is impossible for either to answer these two above questions, following the format they are asked in

PS: Acehart I'll touch base with you asap. Sorry for the delay please

MuttleyLaff:
There is Israel, the man (i.e. the patriarch, formerly known as Jacob) and there is Israel, the Nation

To just completely fabricate things, is only what you are good at. Where did you read in this thread or elsewhere anyone saying there is a race called Africa

Òde. The man YAKUBI (a black negro) was progenitor of the true nation of YISOLELE aka ISRAEL.

Men (human beings) make nations, not lands. The Most High told Abraham that he will make from him many nations. Then from one of his decendants YAKUBI (Jacob) came the great nation whom YAHUAH chose to be above all nations and to be holy unto him.

And that is why Europeans from Ukraine, Russia and Germany can go and seize someone else's land claiming they are the nation of Israel whereas they are the synagogue of Satan.(Rev 2:9). It's the reason I know that Christianity (ESAU/EDOM/ROME) is headed for destruction. They will pay for what they did to the chosen seed.

The fake state of Israel was created in 1948 by the league of nations. YAH will punish all of them. They had even first considered Uganda before Palestine. Tufiakwa.

donnie:

Òde. The man YAKUBI (a black negro) was progenitor of the true nation of YISOLELE aka ISRAEL

It is only a certified kofam, high grade òde who will ascribe Yakubi aka Jacob aka Israel to be black and/or negro.

Be confirming what I've earlier said that Israel, the Nation, came forth from Israel the man, Jacob.

donnie:
Men (human beings) make nations, not lands. The Most High told Abraham that he will make from him many nations. Then from one of his decendants YAKUBI (Jacob) came the great nation whom YAHUAH chose to be above all nations and to be holy unto him.

Where did you read in this thread or elsewhere saying that lands makes nation, hmm, you senile old fart?

donnie:
And that is why Europeans from Ukraine, Russia and Germany can go and seize someone else's land claiming they are the nation of Israel whereas they are the synagogue of Satan.(Rev 2:9). It's the reason I know that Christianity (ESAU/EDOM/ROME) is headed for destruction. They will pay for what they did to the chosen seed.

The fake state of Israel was created in 1948 by the league of nations. YAH will punish all of them. They had even first considered Uganda before Palestine. Tufiakwa.

The punishment they'll get is child's play to what you'll be getting. You arent better than the Ashkenazi Jews, both of youse are identity thieves

MuttleyLaff:


Where did you read in this thread or elsewhere saying that lands makes nation, don't you know I'm, a senile old fart?

The punishment they'll get is child's play to what I'll be getting. Myself and Ashkenazi Jews are identity thieves

All these stupid questions you ask like a drunkard just waking up from the gutter.

MuttleyLaff:
Its MuttleyLaff and not Mr Mutt and also please show where or how I guilt trip anyone. Smh.

Okay sir.

donnie:
All these stupid questions you ask like a drunkard just waking up from the gutter.

Can you see how far in the gutter you have descended to indulge in dirty tricks of changing original posts. You didn't disappoint with this latest purille act. Smh.

jamesid29:
Okay sir.

What of, where and how I have guilt tripped?

MuttleyLaff:
What of, where and how I have guilt tripped?

Sigh...You really are intentionally grasping at every other thing of less importance rather than the facing the main crust of the conversation... it's gotten tiring. We are both too old to be playing cat and mouse.

MuttleyLaff:

The tribe Israel, or Israel, the Nation, is not part of the continent Africa.

Well, since you always go with the Eurocentric lies. Continue. But all of that land including all of Arabia was populated by blacks (Negroes, Bejas, Ethiopic, Nilotics, black Indians, black Arabs etc) before the white devils came along sacking and whitening out populations.

MuttleyLaff:

Israel, is the name by which the Bible calls the tribes, kingdoms and dynasties formed by the ancient Jewish people in the Levant. Israel stands at the crossroads of Europe, Asia and Africa and geographically speaking, belongs to the Asian continent and is very much part of the Middle East region (i.e. Mediterranean Sea region)

There he goes again, referring to the land. You are incorrigible you know.

MuttleyLaff:

Listen brother, listen good and take it to the bank, there is no Israelite alive on earth today, capable of tracing his/her ancestry to Abram/Abraham or Jacob/Israel, but here you are donnie, claiming to be from Israel, know the time and route of the migration of your people.

You are possessed and unfortunately, you are nowhere near your deliverance. That is the Spirit that has been moving you since ...the spirit of the Antichrist. It is against the TORAH against YAH and it shall be destroyed with fire.

This blindness of Israel is so that the message can get to gentiles. It did but they did wickedly, destroyed YAH's people and killed his prophets. They will reign only until the time of the gentiles is complete.

Romans 11:1,25-26
[1]I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
[25]For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
[26]And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob

Zechariah 12:10
[10]And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Jeremiah 31:10-11
[10]Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.
[11]For the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and ransomed him from the hand of him that was stronger than he.

ISRAEL's recognition of who they are and repentance will usher in the coming of the MESSIAH. When the number of those who will awaken is complete (because 2/3 of Israel will perish) He will return. So we won't stop preaching.

Luke 13:35
[35]Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Hope you can now see clearly on whose side you are working?

MuttleyLaff:
... Travel is the antidote to ignorances, prejudices, discriminations, bigotry, homophobia, chauvinism, misogyny, fundamentalism, narrow-mindedness etcetera, and so I enjoy travelling. I visit many good books to read, lol, I visit many good deepweb stuff internet sites and/or other varied online resources, but I live in the Bible, lol, I chose to live in the Bible because there is no such place better than home, home, sweet bible home lol.

If you want to shine your eyes and free yourself, lol, well, if you need milk to make your own cheese with then, lol you can get some from listening/watching/reading/visiting any of the following online dairy farms, lol, Professor Michio Kaku, Professor Sophie Bosede Oluwole RIP (i.e. aka Mamalawo and/or Iyanifa, was a practitioner of Yoruba philosophy) Dr Myles Munro RIP, Dr Aajonus Vonderplanitz RIP, Bill and Joan Donahue, Dr. Sebi RIP was born Alfredo Bowman, Dick Gregory RIP, Segun Olawoye c/o Objectv, Dr. Shola Jordan Adeoye, Dr Sunday Adelaja, Patrick Bet-David, Omoyele Sowore, Joseph Okechukwu, Adeyinka Grandson, Rabbi Manis Friedman, Alan Watts, Daddy Freeze, Dr. Michio Kaku, Dr. Michael S. Heiser, Segun Awosanya aka SEGA L'éveilleur aka @segalink et cetera. In other words, use them to do your own research, get informed and come up with your own cheese (i.e. your own facts/opinions)

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jamesid29:
Sigh...You really are intentionally grasping at every other thing of less importance rather than the facing the main crust of the conversation... it's gotten tiring. We are both too old to be playing cat and mouse.

You are a funny character sha Mr jamesid29, not only have you not laid in wait and ambush me more than on one occasion, but you seem to be seething and this has led to your latest point of accusing me of guilt tripping others, with you expecting me to lie down, roll over and take the allegation, just like that, without so much of seeing your proof(s). Smh

Why dont you go back to re-read my first post on that thread to see whether my motive was to create a guilt-trip for anyone in particular. Now, fyi, I stand by my original submission, that from deductive reasoning, using the bible and other resources, God incarnate, Yahshua Ha Mashiach, aka Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour of the whole wide world, was born circa the month of September/October.

Now what you dont seem to understand is that, the proponents of December 25th, promoters like your darlings, Bishop Hippolytus and Julius Sextus Africanus, leaning on Jewish tradition, are pinning the birthday of Yahshua Ha Mashiach, aka Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour of the whole wide world, on the time of His conception, which falls on December 25th. If you don't concur with this, then be my guest, do the math and have a "satori"

I have better games, I would love to play but your suggested, nondescript playing cat and mouse, isn't one of them. Sorry.

Brother, you say, "the conversation was about whether the 25th date itself was derived from pagan origins or independent of it and also on if Constantine was responsible for choosing the date(which is historically incorrect)" but the truth and fact of the matter is that, Constantine instituted and officially established that day and he selected the December 25th date, done in homage to pagan festival of Saturnalia (i.e. the ancient Roman festival of Saturn in December for indulging in wild revelry and reckless indulgences)

MuttleyLaff:
There is Israel, the man (i.e. the patriarch, formerly known as Jacob) and there is Israel, the Nation

To just completely fabricate things, is only what you are good at. Where did you read in this thread or elsewhere anyone saying there is a race called Africa

O ti, you for say motherland/fatherland nah.

The tribe Israel, or Israel, the Nation, is not part of the continent Africa. Israel, is the name by which the Bible calls the tribes, kingdoms and dynasties formed by the ancient Jewish people in the Levant. Israel stands at the crossroads of Europe, Asia and Africa and geographically speaking, belongs to the Asian continent and is very much part of the Middle East region (i.e. Mediterranean Sea region)

Blind and the blind guide in tow

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"Now, donnie, the fact of the matter and truth is that, Genesis 15:13, had already been fulfilled in Egypt, where it was talking of your seed, Israel, the nation and not your seed, an individual, Isaac/Jacob/Israel, the man."
- Religion / Re: Is The Skin Colour Of Jesus Christ Important? (A Response To Donnie) by MuttleyLaff: 2:29pm On May 12

Smh. What a pity. I will school you on the intricacies of Israel

Listen brother, listen good and take it to the bank, there is no Israelite alive on earth today, capable of tracing his/her ancestry to Abram/Abraham or Jacob/Israel, but here you are donnie, claiming to be from Israel, know the time and route of the migration of your people. OK, if you claim to be of Judah, well, guess what. The same fate that befell Israel/Ephraim (i.e. the 10 northern tribes aka the kingdom of Israel) also caught up with the kingdom of Judah, too (i.e. the southern two tribes, Judah and Benjamin) There is no Israel/Ephraim, there is no Judah, lol.

"But his father said, "Son, I know what I am doing.
It's true that Manasseh's family will someday become a great nation.
But Ephraim will be even greater than Manasseh,
because his descendants will become many great nations (i.e. Gentiles, lol)""
- Genesis 48:19

I pity you donnie. Smh. You really have no idea of what you've set your mind on being a tool in the devil's workshop. Fyi, donnie, to start with, from Genesis 48:19 above, you can see that younger Ephraim and elder brother Manasseh were adopted by Jacob/Israel, to be his children. They took the place of Joseph (i.e. their father) and Levi (i.e. their uncle). donnie, you see in that Genesis 48:19 above , "melo ha goyim" is the original Hebrew text that translate to "great nations", but what actually, it originally means, in Hebrew, is "a fullness of the Gentiles" and there's a very good reason for why Jacob/Israel made that prophetic blessing prayer on Ephraim, lol. Your blinkers will soon fall off, lmao, as this whole matter continues to unfold

There is nothing like a white Jesus. Keep your curse in check

Israel aka Ephraim, the Nation of Israel (i.e. the lost ten tribes) was destroyed by the Babylonian. At the time of Yahusha, only the Kingdom of the South, the House of Judah, survived, with the tribes from Benjamin, Levi and Judah, the exiles from the lost tribes returned back to institute sects

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I wonder why it is impossible for either to answer these two above questions, following the format they are asked in

PS: Acehart I'll touch base with you asap. Sorry for the delay please

Who are the so called Palestine people?

MuttleyLaff:
There is Israel, the man (i.e. the patriarch, formerly known as Jacob) and there is Israel, the Nation

To just completely fabricate things, is only what you are good at. Where did you read in this thread or elsewhere anyone saying there is a race called Africa

O ti, you for say motherland/fatherland nah.

The tribe Israel, or Israel, the Nation, is not part of the continent Africa. Israel, is the name by which the Bible calls the tribes, kingdoms and dynasties formed by the ancient Jewish people in the Levant. Israel stands at the crossroads of Europe, Asia and Africa and geographically speaking, belongs to the Asian continent and is very much part of the Middle East region (i.e. Mediterranean Sea region)

Blind and the blind guide in tow

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"Now, donnie, the fact of the matter and truth is that, Genesis 15:13, had already been fulfilled in Egypt, where it was talking of your seed, Israel, the nation and not your seed, an individual, Isaac/Jacob/Israel, the man."
- Religion / Re: Is The Skin Colour Of Jesus Christ Important? (A Response To Donnie) by MuttleyLaff: 2:29pm On May 12

Smh. What a pity. I will school you on the intricacies of Israel

Listen brother, listen good and take it to the bank, there is no Israelite alive on earth today, capable of tracing his/her ancestry to Abram/Abraham or Jacob/Israel, but here you are donnie, claiming to be from Israel, know the time and route of the migration of your people. OK, if you claim to be of Judah, well, guess what. The same fate that befell Israel/Ephraim (i.e. the 10 northern tribes aka the kingdom of Israel) also caught up with the kingdom of Judah, too (i.e. the southern two tribes, Judah and Benjamin) There is no Israel/Ephraim, there is no Judah, lol.

"But his father said, "Son, I know what I am doing.
It's true that Manasseh's family will someday become a great nation.
But Ephraim will be even greater than Manasseh,
because his descendants will become many great nations (i.e. Gentiles, lol)""
- Genesis 48:19

I pity you donnie. Smh. You really have no idea of what you've set your mind on being a tool in the devil's workshop. Fyi, donnie, to start with, from Genesis 48:19 above, you can see that younger Ephraim and elder brother Manasseh were adopted by Jacob/Israel, to be his children. They took the place of Joseph (i.e. their father) and Levi (i.e. their uncle). donnie, you see in that Genesis 48:19 above , "melo ha goyim" is the original Hebrew text that translate to "great nations", but what actually, it originally means, in Hebrew, is "a fullness of the Gentiles" and there's a very good reason for why Jacob/Israel made that prophetic blessing prayer on Ephraim, lol. Your blinkers will soon fall off, lmao, as this whole matter continues to unfold

There is nothing like a white Jesus. Keep your curse in check

Israel aka Ephraim, the Nation of Israel (i.e. the lost ten tribes) was destroyed by the Babylonian. At the time of Yahusha, only the Kingdom of the South, the House of Judah, survived, with the tribes from Benjamin, Levi and Judah, the exiles from the lost tribes returned back to institute sects

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I wonder why it is impossible for either to answer these two above questions, following the format they are asked in

PS: Acehart I'll touch base with you asap. Sorry for the delay please

Who are the so called Palestinian people?

khia:
Who are the so called Palestine people?

khia:
Who are the so called Palestinian people?

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MuttleyLaff:
There is Israel, the man (i.e. the patriarch, formerly known as Jacob) and there is Israel, the Nation

To just completely fabricate things, is only what you are good at. Where did you read in this thread or elsewhere anyone saying there is a race called Africa

O ti, you for say motherland/fatherland nah.

The tribe Israel, or Israel, the Nation, is not part of the continent Africa. Israel, is the name by which the Bible calls the tribes, kingdoms and dynasties formed by the ancient Jewish people in the Levant. Israel stands at the crossroads of Europe, Asia and Africa and geographically speaking, belongs to the Asian continent and is very much part of the Middle East region (i.e. Mediterranean Sea region)

Blind and the blind guide in tow

Smh. What a pity. I will school you on the intricacies of Israel

Listen brother, listen good and take it to the bank, there is no Israelite alive on earth today, capable of tracing his/her ancestry to Abram/Abraham or Jacob/Israel, but here you are donnie, claiming to be from Israel, know the time and route of the migration of your people. OK, if you claim to be of Judah, well, guess what. The same fate that befell Israel/Ephraim (i.e. the 10 northern tribes aka the kingdom of Israel) also caught up with the kingdom of Judah, too (i.e. the southern two tribes, Judah and Benjamin) There is no Israel/Ephraim, there is no Judah, lol.

Israel aka Ephraim, the Nation of Israel (i.e. the lost ten tribes) was destroyed by the Babylonian. At the time of Yahusha, only the Kingdom of the South, the House of Judah, survived, with the tribes from Benjamin, Levi and Judah, the exiles from the lost tribes returned back to institute sects

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I wonder why it is impossible for either to answer these two above questions, following the format they are asked in

Do you think it was a brag, when I said "I will school you on the intricacies of Israel"

khia, let me put down some backdrop first, fyi, the Israel mentioned in the Bible existed, circa 4000 years ago and stopped existing as a force to be reckoned with during the Roman Empire annihilation, mentioned in the immediate above paragraph. There was a time, the biblical Israel was independent. I have impressed instances of this, on and off, in my interactions with donnie. I am talking of my references to the Southern kingdom, aka House of Judah, aka Judea, with capital being Jerusalem, remember that the Northern kingdom aka House of Israel, aka Ephraim, aka Kingdom of Samaria, with Shechem and later Samaria, at another later time, being its capital, was destroyed by the Assyrians. The southern kingdom of Judah was destroyed a second time by the Romans, after the Babylonian's first destruction of it, only this second time, it was not allowed to see the light of day until 1948 (i.e. 2000 years later after its second destruction)

Now fyi, modern Jews, whether off Ashkenazim, Sephardim, Samaritans, African Americans, black Africans et cetera are not of the seed of Ya'akov/Jacob/Israel, and thus, just as I keep telling donnie, are not of the Semitic lineage of the 12 Hebrew tribes with whom God had the Old Covenant with. Besides, as I have previously advanced to donnie, the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and annihilated the Israelites in 70 AD. It actually was Titus, under the leadership of his father, who was the conqueror of Jerusalem on that fateful 70 AD and actually succeeded his father Vespasian, as Emperor, upon his death. In an attempt to erase from memory, the connection between promised Eretz Yisrael (i.e. the Land of Israel) to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and his descendants, the Romans then after annihilating Jerusalem, renamed the expanse, to Palestine

You ask "Who are the so called Palestinian people?" Well, khia, "the so called Palestinian people" sic descended from the Canaanite people, who lived in the Land of Canaan, right before the Israelites arrived there.

khia, I am sure you know God promised them the land with assurances made with statements like:
1/ "Then the LORD appeared to Abram and said, "I'm going to give this land to your descendants." So he built an altar there to the LORD, who had appeared to him." in Genesis 12:7 and
2/ "And I will give the entire land of Canaan, where you now live as a foreigner, to you and your descendants. It will be their possession forever, and I will be their God.”" in Genesis 17:8

So what point are to trying to make with asking "Who are the so called Palestinian people?"

MuttleyLaff:

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You are a funny character sha Mr jamesid29, not only have you not laid in wait and ambush me more than on one occasion, but you seem to be seething and this has led to your latest point of accusing me of guilt tripping others, with you expecting me to lie down, roll over and take the allegation, just like that, without so much of seeing your proof(s). Smh

Why dont you go back to re-read my first post on that thread to see whether my motive was to create a guilt-trip for anyone in particular. Now, fyi, I stand by my original submission, that from deductive reasoning, using the bible and other resources, God incarnate, Yahshua Ha Mashiach, aka Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour of the whole wide world, was born circa the month of September/October.

Now what you dont seem to understand is that, the proponents of December 25th, promoters like your darlings, Bishop Hippolytus and Julius Sextus Africanus, leaning on Jewish tradition, are pinning the birthday of Yahshua Ha Mashiach, aka Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour of the whole wide world, on the time of His conception, which falls on December 25th. If you don't concur with this, then be my guest, do the math and have a "satori"

I have better games, I would love to play but your suggested, nondescript playing cat and mouse, isn't one of them. Sorry.

Brother, you say, "the conversation was about whether the 25th date itself was derived from pagan origins or independent of it and also on if Constantine was responsible for choosing the date(which is historically incorrect)" but the truth and fact of the matter is that, Constantine instituted and officially established that day and he selected the December 25th date, done in homage to pagan festival of Saturnalia (i.e. the ancient Roman festival of Saturn in December for indulging in wild revelry and reckless indulgences)

For some reason I didn't expect all this from you.
You found every possible way to misrepresent or distort our conversation. Even going as far as positing what I originally wrote on the other thread in a bid to muddy the waters again.

jamesid29:
Actually that's not really factual and it's one of those misconception about Constantine's influence on Christianity that has been around for so long, that most people just tend to believe it's true. I believe it's right up there with "Constantine choosing the Christian Canon and him making Jesus God".
In reality the proposal of December 25th as the birthday of Jesus predates Constantine or any pagan influence. The earliest allusion to 25th comes from Bishop Hippolytus sometime around 202 ad
"The first coming of our Lord, that in the flesh, in which he was born at Bethlehem, took place eight days before the Kalends of January, a Wednesday, in the forty-second year of the reign of Augustus, 5500 years from Adam.”
This translates to December 25th, 2 BC. Also Julius Sextus Africanus came up with the same date around the same time. This is basically over a hundred years before Constantine and decades before Aurelian .

December 25th was not the only date that was proposed by the early church as Clement of Alexandria writes around 200 ad that different groups also proposed different dates
“There are those who have determined not only the year of our Lord’s birth, but also the day; and they say that it took place in the 28th year of Augustus, and in the 25th day of Pachon [May 20 ] … And treating of His Passion, with very great accuracy, some say that it took place in the 16th year of Tiberius, on the 25th of Phamenoth [March 21]; and others on the 25th of Pharmuthi [April 21] and others say that on the 19th of Pharmuthi [April 15] the Savior suffered. Further, others say that He was born on the 24th or 25th of Pharmuthi [April 20 or 21].”
So for the first 200 yrs of Christianity, the church was silent on the birthday of Christ but apparently by the late 2nd century and early 3rd century there was an interest in pin pointing the date but this interest had nothing to do with pagan influence. It's worth noting that Christians during this period were still a persecuted minority group within the Roman empire,and they did their best to separate themselves from pagan practices and celebrations.
By the early 4th century before the conversion of Constantine, 2 dates were the leading ones, 25th of December and 6th of January( Mainly in the East) even though there was no official festivity associated with them.

There are a couple of leading theories of how these 2 dates were calculated as the Bible doesn't give much information but the most widely accepted one is:

Integral age: this concept has it's roots in Judaism. The basic idea is, all prophets of God enter and exit the world on the same day (Basically conception and death fall on the same day). So when the western church calculated the death of Christ as falling on the 25th of March (14th day of Nisan) it also meant he was conceived on the 25th of March. Add nine months to that and you get 25th of December as the day of birth.
The Eastern church calculation of the crucifixion fell on the 14th day of Artemisios on the Greek calendar which is April 6th. Add nine months and you get January 6.

There are other ways the dates were calculated devoid of pagan influence like the equinox and creation day theories attested to by church fathers writing.

As for the elephant in the room, theres no doubt that we can find pagan influences in the present day celebration of Christmas but this influences come mainly from the later centuries(the 6th century and beyond) as Christianity expanded into western and northern Europe. At this point the church didn't have much of a problem in borrowing from pagan practices and religions. But the date itself is not pagan in origin.

The earliest document to suggest that Christianity intentionally changed a pagan feast day to that of the birth of Christ comes from the 12th century (Syriac biblical commentator Dionysius bar-Salibi). He wrote that Christians moved to day of Christ's birth back from January 6 to December 25th to coincide with the sol Invictus holiday and for some reason later biblical scholars ran with it and it later became popularized in the media. But more modern scholarships has shown that not to be true.

I guess you checked it out and it held up.

Anyway, it's fine. It seems this is more of an ego thing than anything else.

This is Awakening 101.

Black Romans, Etruscans...

Feeding of the five thousand.

jamesid29:
For some reason I didn't expect all this from you.

Mister jamesid29, you should expect me to not shy from saying it as it is.

jamesid29:
You found every possible way to misrepresent or distort our conversation. Even going as far as positing what I originally wrote on the other thread in a bid to muddy the waters again.

The discourse is in public domain, its not classified, that no one havent got access to to check the contents of the discourse between us. Please you are old enough and way past, not to be playing the tantrum and/or victim card(s) here

jamesid29, you seem to forget you were wavering on that thread. You were undecided between at least two to three different opinions.

The thread is alive and visible, nobody has misrepresented nor distorted the conversation. Yes, I have presented excerpts from the original conversation, but I certainly havent changed anything you wrote. I am not sure where your idea of "muddy the waters" comes from, when the crux of your argument was based on patristic sentiments with you gravitating towards them, so why I typed that, what you dont seem to understand, is that, the proponents of December 25th, promoters like your darlings, Bishop Hippolytus and Julius Sextus Africanus, (i.e. the early Christian theologians circa era of the first five centuries) leaning on Jewish tradition, are pinning the birthday of Yahshua Ha Mashiach, aka Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour of the whole wide world, on the time of His conception, which falls on December 25th. I, then added that, if you don't concur with this, you then can be my guest, do the math and to have a "satori"

jamesid29:
I guess you checked it out and it held up.

"The angel replied,
"The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you.
So the Holy One to be born will be called the Son of God."
- Luke 1:35

"This is how Jesus the Messiah was born.
His mother, Mary, was engaged to be married to Joseph.
But before the marriage took place, while she was still a virgin,
she became pregnant through the power of the Holy Spirit"
- Matthew 1:18

"⁸That night there were shepherds staying in the fields nearby, guarding their flocks of sheep.
⁹Suddenly, an angel of the Lord appeared among them, and the radiance of the Lord’s glory surrounded them. They were terrified,
¹⁰but the angel reassured them. “Don’t be afraid!” he said. “I bring you good news that will bring great joy to all people.
¹¹The Savior—yes, the Messiah, the Lord—has been born today in Bethlehem, the city of David!
¹²And you will recognize him by this sign: You will find a baby wrapped snugly in strips of cloth, lying in a manger.”
¹³Suddenly, the angel was joined by a vast host of others—the armies of heaven—praising God and saying,
¹⁴“Glory to God in highest heaven,
and peace on earth to those with whom God is pleased.”
¹⁵When the angels had returned to heaven, the shepherds said to each other, “Let’s go to Bethlehem! Let’s see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has told us about.”"
- Luke 2:8-15

If this sentiment, consoles you and makes you feel better, then so be it and be my guest, the fact remains that you are mixing up gestation (i.e. Luke 1:35 and Matthew 1:18) period, with time of birth (i.e. Luke 2:11). They are chalk and cheese, salt and sugar, look alike, but aren't the same thing.

Conception, fertilisation, impregnation et cetera is different to delivery, childbirth et cetera.

jamesid29:
Anyway, it's fine. It seems this is more of an ego thing than anything else.

Mister jamesid29, ego and super ego, are good, it is "id" you need to be wary of, the sort you had displayed, ever since you ambushed me on that thread and since then after, you have been commenting on my posts grudgingly. I knew you were seething, so I have coyly been withholding responding to you jumping on my posts to comment. "Id" obviously and not ego or super ego,, reigned supreme in your case

I can biblically hold my ground with my original position of circa September/October, can the same be said of you?. Are you capable and able to use scripture to back up your position and do so, without being tentative. You can't straddle the fence

MuttleyLaff:
Mister jamesid29, you should expect me to not shy from saying it as it is.

The discourse is in public domain, its not classified, that no one havent got access to to check the contents of the discourse between us. Please you are old enough and way past, not to be playing the tantrum and/or victim card(s) here

jamesid29, you seem to forget you were wavering on that thread. You were undecided between at least two to three different opinions.

The thread is alive and visible, nobody has misrepresented nor distorted the conversation. Yes, I have presented excerpts from the original conversation, but I certainly havent changed anything you wrote. I am not sure where your idea of "muddy the waters" comes from, when the crux of your argument was based on patristic sentiments with you gravitating towards them, so why I typed that, what you dont seem to understand, is that, the proponents of December 25th, promoters like your darlings, Bishop Hippolytus and Julius Sextus Africanus, (i.e. the early Christian theologians circa era of the first five centuries) leaning on Jewish tradition, are pinning the birthday of Yahshua Ha Mashiach, aka Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour of the whole wide world, on the time of His conception, which falls on December 25th. I, then added that, if you don't concur with this, you then can be my guest, do the math and to have a "satori"

"The angel replied,
"The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you.
So the Holy One to be born will be called the Son of God."
- Luke 1:35

"This is how Jesus the Messiah was born.
His mother, Mary, was engaged to be married to Joseph.
But before the marriage took place, while she was still a virgin,
she became pregnant through the power of the Holy Spirit"
- Matthew 1:18

"⁸That night there were shepherds staying in the fields nearby, guarding their flocks of sheep.
⁹Suddenly, an angel of the Lord appeared among them, and the radiance of the Lord’s glory surrounded them. They were terrified,
¹⁰but the angel reassured them. “Don’t be afraid!” he said. “I bring you good news that will bring great joy to all people.
¹¹The Savior—yes, the Messiah, the Lord—has been born today in Bethlehem, the city of David!
¹²And you will recognize him by this sign: You will find a baby wrapped snugly in strips of cloth, lying in a manger.”
¹³Suddenly, the angel was joined by a vast host of others—the armies of heaven—praising God and saying,
¹⁴“Glory to God in highest heaven,
and peace on earth to those with whom God is pleased.”
¹⁵When the angels had returned to heaven, the shepherds said to each other, “Let’s go to Bethlehem! Let’s see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has told us about.”"
- Luke 2:8-15

If this sentiment, consoles you and makes you feel better, then so be it and be my guest, the fact remains that you are mixing up gestation (i.e. Luke 1:35 and Matthew 1:18) period, with time of birth (i.e. Luke 2:11). They are chalk and cheese, salt and sugar, look alike, but aren't the same thing.

Conception, fertilisation, impregnation et cetera is different to delivery, childbirth et cetera.

Okay

Mister jamesid29, ego and super ego, are good, it is "id" you need to be wary of, the sort you had displayed, ever since you ambushed me on that thread and since then after, you have been commenting on my posts grudgingly. I knew you were seething, so I have coyly been withholding responding to you jumping on my posts to comment. "Id" obviously and not ego or super ego,, reigned supreme in your case

I can biblically hold my ground with my original position of circa September/October, can the same be said of you?. Are you capable and able to use scripture to back up your position and do so, without being tentative. You can't straddle the fence

Seriously bro don't take this the wrong way but you need to take a break from nairaland and rejuvenate. If it's gotten to the point where you believe people thousands of miles away are seething and plotting against you and you've been making up plans and strategies against them in your heart, I think it's a good time to take a step back and rejuvenate.

As in, which ambush,what thread, what are you talking about? Mehnnnn..... I wish you could literally see my face right now.
What is "Id"? Who's been commenting on your post grudgingly? As I can recall, ever since I've been back on nairaland, it's you who mostly mentions me and I either reply or like accordingly. Matter of fact I'm only on this thread because you posted a conversation with my username in it and I responded to that...other than that I wouldn't have been on this thread in the first place(I tend not to dabble in all the black Hebrew stuff).
Other than that, anybody that post something interesting to me, I drop my comments and move. Funny enough, I mostly try not to be confrontational because from experience, once ego kicks in on either or both sides, reason goes out the window and the whole point having a conversation is defeated. But alas I'm human and sometimes I get ticked off or plainly not in the mood and I can get confrontational with my comments....
Maybe it's one of those you took personally and have ever since been parsing anything I post through that lens.

Mehnnnn??seriously though, taking breaks from places like this is usually good. That's what I do personally and even planning to do so soon. It's hard to be in a place like nairaland or twitter where people under the cloak of anonymity feel confident showcasing the worst tendencies of the human heart and not change gradually. It's very hard seeing the raw tendencies of the human heart and not begin to respond accordingly no matter how little. Sure some people have the anointing for being in a place like this for long periods and not to change and I'm happy for them but far more of us don't have such an anointing.
For example, I've never had a tribalistic bone in my body. Went to a multicultural secondary school, spent my young adulthood in a place where noone cares if you are Igbo,yoruba, zulu or Ghanaian, you are all blacks and we all stuck together. Imagine my surprise when nairaland and Twitter started showing how much hatred people of different tribes harbour in their hearts for eachother. If not for deep rooted experiences from my younger days that when push comes to shove, tribe doesn't matter, I'll also have been developing sinister thoughts towards other tribes no matter how little. Even at that, Im still always very cautious of what I allow get to me, hence periodically taken step backs.
Places like this train us to see the worst in people and we respond accordingly because we expect the worst from them. And you know the old saying, whatever you call Harry, Harry eventually becomes. So in the end, we end up with a feedback loop of hatred and so on.
For all the good platforms like this can do, that's just one of the dark sides.
That's just some humble thoughts from one human to another. No sinister motives in it.

On the flip side, This is good.... atleast everything can be laid out in the open and trashed accordingly. Regardless of what you think of me and our differences (we would probably have a lot) , we are still brothers in Christ.
Yeah, sure we will have some good conversations and sometimes we would have some confrontational ones. That's just part of the human experience. Paul and Peter, Paul and Barnabas, the early church fathers etc had their moments but that doesn't change their oneness in Christ.
Even if you're not a Christain, that doesn't change anything because we are all human and are all images of God and deserve the same love and respect.
(Fun fact: image of God is another interesting rabbit trail. Mehnnnn, the Bible bro. I spent a huge chunk of last year and now this year recurringly on parsing just Gen: 1&2 and there's just still alot to get through. As in, this are the types of conversations you have for hours with people going back and forth, reefing of eachother, going back back home, parsing things out and coming back another day to continue with the conversation. But sadly nairaland is not built for such conversations, so what can we do, we stuck with having to give simplistic answers to really complex questions... but the Bible mehn. Sometimes I just wish more people could see these things or pick interest in it. Interesting that you mentioned Dr Heiser, He's one of my go-to people on ancient new eastern culture, so we have that in common.... I've digressed to much)

In conclusion my brother, I abhour no I'll feelings towards you. I do not claim I am above abhouring such feelings against another human being but like I stated above, I'll much rather leave the space before it gets to that point.
Yes, in a small community like this religion forum, there will always be possibility of locking horns on certain threads with you or with some other person but for it to escalate to deep seated animosity, I'll rather leave. It's a constant prayer on my part both online and offline, because I know from experience that hate is alot easier to come by than love.

So Mr MuttleyLaff, I have no deep seated animosity against you but please if you still have anything you feel we need to trash out, feel free to bring it and we can trash it out together(so that when next I tackle you, you go know say no be targeted tackling, na just that thread cos am, lol). But on a more serious note though, if we need to trash out some things, I'm all ears and I am not above saying sorry, if the need arises.

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jamesid29:
Okay

Its not simply and just okay, but the summation that "Conception, fertilisation, impregnation et cetera is different to delivery, childbirth et cetera." is incontrovertible fact

jamesid29:
Seriously bro don't take this the wrong way but you need to take a break from nairaland and rejuvenate. If it's gotten to the point where you believe people thousands of miles away are seething and plotting against you and you've been making up plans and strategies against them in your heart, I think it's a good time to take a step back and rejuvenate.

You dont know what you're talking about. Go check my timeline, to see that I have just returned from a brief hiatus

jamesid29:
As in, which ambush, what thread, what are you talking about? Mehnnnn..... I wish you could literally see my face right now.

Pesin way $hit for ground no dey remember, nah pesin way clean up the mess who does. It is well.

jamesid29:
What is "Id"? Who's been commenting on your post grudgingly? As I can recall, ever since I've been back on nairaland, it's you who mostly mentions me and I either reply or like accordingly.

So you dont know what "id", "ego" and "super-ego" are, yet you recklessly was throwing about the term "ego"

Never mind, it must be something trivia, I observed and misconstrued it to be resentment and/or unconscious bias (i.e. the thread, Religion / Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity et cetera)

jamesid29:
Matter of fact I'm only on this thread because you posted a conversation with my username in it and I responded to that...other than that I wouldn't have been on this thread in the first place (I tend not to dabble in all the black Hebrew stuff).
Other than that, anybody that post something interesting to me, I drop my comments and move. Funny enough, I mostly try not to be confrontational because from experience, once ego kicks in on either or both sides, reason goes out the window and the whole point having a conversation is defeated. But alas I'm human and sometimes I get ticked off or plainly not in the mood and I can get confrontational with my comments....

I didnt want you receiving any notification and so why I used jamesid\29 instead of jamesid29

There's no point in me reinventing the wheel, hence why I reposted that discourse, so to save me time, repeating myself or typing up all over again, something I've previously shed light on before

jamesid29:
Maybe it's one of those you took personally and have ever since been parsing anything I post through that lens.

I did not take anything you wrote personally, it was merely a case of, I observed a developed pattern, worth mentioning

jamesid29:
Mehnnnn?? seriously though, taking breaks from places like this is usually good. That's what I do personally and even planning to do so soon. It's hard to be in a place like nairaland or twitter where people under the cloak of anonymity feel confident showcasing the worst tendencies of the human heart and not change gradually. It's very hard seeing the raw tendencies of the human heart and not begin to respond accordingly no matter how little. Sure some people have the anointing for being in a place like this for long periods and not to change and I'm happy for them but far more of us don't have such an anointing.

Sure some people have the anointing for being in a place like this for long periods because God gives such person the grace.

We all have access to an equal amount of anointing. The size and proportion you present determines the intensity, level, degree and/or amount of anointing you get back. If any dont have, you should pray to God, who will give it to you because God gives to all, generously, graciously and without criticizing.

jamesid29:
For example, I've never had a tribalistic bone in my body. Went to a multicultural secondary school, spent my young adulthood in a place where noone cares if you are Igbo, yoruba, zulu or Ghanaian, you are all blacks and we all stuck together. Imagine my surprise when nairaland and Twitter started showing how much hatred people of different tribes harbour in their hearts for eachother. If not for deep rooted experiences from my younger days that when push comes to shove, tribe doesn't matter, I'll also have been developing sinister thoughts towards other tribes no matter how little. Even at that, Im still always very cautious of what I allow get to me, hence periodically taken step backs.

Places like this train us to see the worst in people and we respond accordingly because we expect the worst from them. And you know the old saying, whatever you call Harry, Harry eventually becomes. So in the end, we end up with a feedback loop of hatred and so on.
For all the good platforms like this can do, that's just one of the dark sides.
That's just some humble thoughts from one human to another. No sinister motives in it.

Sure some people have the anointing for being in a place like this for long periods because God gives such person the grace

I dont get sucked in to the divide and conquer, dont subscribe to divide and rule and certainly dont buy into discrimination, bigotry, sexual prejudice, intolerance, parochialism et cetera

jamesid29:
On the flip side, This is good.... at least everything can be laid out in the open and trashed accordingly. Regardless of what you think of me and our differences (we would probably have a lot), we are still brothers in Christ.

Amen.

jamesid29:
Yeah, sure we will have some good conversations and sometimes we would have some confrontational ones. That's just part of the human experience. Paul and Peter, Paul and Barnabas, the early church fathers etc had their moments but that doesn't change their oneness in Christ.

I am equipped to when appropriate and led, to give as good, as I get.

jamesid29:
Even if you're not a Christain, that doesn't change anything because we are all human and are all images of God and deserve the same love and respect.

I cant ever, get tired of typing, that, there'd be less christians, if only more christians, properly read their bibles.

jamesid29:
(Fun fact: image of God is another interesting rabbit trail. Mehnnnn, the Bible bro. I spent a huge chunk of last year and now this year recurringly on parsing just Gen: 1&2 and there's just still alot to get through. As in, this are the types of conversations you have for hours with people going back and forth, reefing of eachother, going back back home, parsing things out and coming back another day to continue with the conversation. But sadly nairaland is not built for such conversations, so what can we do, we stuck with having to give simplistic answers to really complex questions... but the Bible mehn. Sometimes I just wish more people could see these things or pick interest in it.

"²⁶Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness,
to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock,
and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it.
²⁷So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him;
male and female He created them"
- Genesis 1:26-27

I like red, as the colour, exudes an air of love, romance, boldness, courage, danger etcetera to me. We, human beings, are the image representation of different attributes of God. God is incorporeal, but created, human beings to physically project different aspect, images and likeness of the Godhead.

Image is instant, while likeness is continuum. The latter, is evident in Genesis 1:27, as seen above. Notice that the mention of "likeness" is left unsaid, in Genesis 1:27. Why? its because its continuum. Now, it is unfortunate that, ever since God took the adventure to create man in His image and likeness, man retrospectively has had the desire to want to return the favour and wilfully contravene "The Second Commandment" (i.e. Exodus 20:4- You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth) by creating God in his image, according to an atypical representation, formulation, theory, perverted idea, and classic misrepresentation of God

God is, incorporeal, hence has no clear definite shape or size, but Jesus Christ, is the product of God, projecting Himself out, as a human being in the person of Jesus Christ on earth. Jesus Christ is the visible image of the invisible God (i.e. 2 Corinthians 4:4b - Christ, who is the image of God and Philippians 2:6-7 - ⁶Though he was God, He did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.⁷Instead, He gave up his divine privileges; He took the humble position of a slave and was born as a human being. When He appeared in human form. Or, Colossians 1:15 - Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creation)

jamesid29:
Interesting that you mentioned Dr Heiser, He's one of my go-to people on ancient new eastern culture, so we have that in common.... I've digressed to much)

No you havent at all, digressed to much. I am sort of a dabbler, a wonderer and a wanderer, hence why, the Spirit of Truth, guides on how to eat hay with the likes of Dr. Michael Heiser and the others, and when or how, to spit out the sticks.

jamesid29:
In conclusion my brother, I abhor no I'll feelings towards you. I do not claim I am above abhouring such feelings against another human being but like I stated above, I'll much rather leave the space before it gets to that point.

You jump to conclusions. I never said you abhorred me or have ill feelings towards me. I inferred that I observed a developed pattern

jamesid29:
Yes, in a small community like this religion forum, there will always be possibility of locking horns on certain threads with you or with some other person but for it to escalate to deep seated animosity, I'll rather leave. It's a constant prayer on my part both online and offline, because I know from experience that hate is alot easier to come by than love.

As a believer, God has not given us, a spirit of timidity, but He gives us power, love, sound mind and/or sound judgment (i.e. 2 Timothy 1:7)

jamesid29:
So Mr MuttleyLaff, I have no deep seated animosity against you but please if you still have anything you feel we need to trash out, feel free to bring it and we can trash it out together(so that when next I tackle you, you go know say no be targeted tackling, na just that thread cos am, lol). But on a more serious note though ...

Yeah, good idea Mister jamesid29, let's smoke the peace pipe together then and bury, whatever tomahawk, seemingly, there is

jamesid29:
... if we need to trash out some things, I'm all ears and I am not above saying sorry, if the need arises.

I have already shown my hands, laid my cards on the table, facing up with Luke 1:35, Matthew 1:18, Luke 2:8-15 and summarising with "Conception, fertilisation, impregnation et cetera is different to delivery, childbirth et cetera." I am more than happy to share with you sources of information, that expatiate on the conception and birth of Yahshua Ha Mashiach, aka Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour of the whole wide worldhood.

PS: There is nothing intrinsically wrong, evil or bad in ordinarily marking birthdays. It is when the concept or thought of it, is abused, misused and confused, that it becomes wrong, evil or bad. Here are two test cases, Joseph and John the Baptist were beneficiaries of receiving good and bad tidings from marking of birthdays

MuttleyLaff:
Its not simply and just okay, but the summation that "Conception, fertilisation, impregnation et cetera is different to delivery, childbirth et cetera." is incontrovertible fact

Like I said previously, the conversation is been driven by ego than anything else and at which point there's really no reason to continue.

You dont know what you're talking about. Go check my timeline, to see that I have just returned from a brief hiatus

So you dont know what "id", "ego" and "super-ego" are, yet you recklessly was throwing about the term "ego"

I'm just going to ignore this part.

Never mind, it must be something trivia, I observed and misconstrued it to be resentment and/or unconscious bias (i.e. the thread, Religion / Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity et cetera)

Bro, Are you serious right now? This was the only conversation we had on that thread

MuttleyLaff:
jamesid29 hey, long time no see around.

Baba Ravi Zacharias RIP, nailed the concept of trinity on its head.

Fact is, God can't be boxed. I love the multi-dimensional illustration Baba used and so why I stamped my like on that post.

jamesid29:

Hey boss, yea it's been a minute. Hope you are good

Where is the seething and scheming here? How did you misconstrue this?
Were you expecting something special or something? You know that's not how this works.

I didnt want you receiving any notification and so why I used jamesid\29 instead of jamesid29

I don't comment much on nairaland so I don't know most of this tricks. So Imagine my surprise seeing a convo that I thought was honest and ended on a good note. The whole stuff about Constantine and co could be easily fact checked and I just assumed you did that.

Things like these are not big deals. On the faith thread (https://www.nairaland.com/5997053/what-faith-really/4#92042066) where I gave the man props for his exposition on Hebrew 11:1, I didn't just give him props because what he said sounded good to my hears. I actually went to check out his usage of hypostasis in classical Greek and it held up, hence my giving him props for taking a interesting approach in interpreting the text. It gave me something interesting to ponder on and it ended up raising other questions(great thing about the Bible...you strike one down, other questions pop up) but I didn't think we needed to get into it those questions at the time since it was going to take us down a rabbit hole.
I just assumed you did that in the December 25th stuff thread and I moved on.
There's so much wrong information on the world today that it's good to have good & solid information out there also especially in the matters of faith, cos you never know the kind of burden you are putting on another person or how a particular kind of information affects other people.
These things are not just about winning arguments, it literally life and death on the line for some people (I mean salvation here). To show you how misinformation can take a life of its own, today we have people who believe the Pauline Letters are forgeries by the Catholic church because one blog said so, effectively cutting themselves of from major doctrines. Even a fiction book(not even something that claims to be historical)" the davinci code" rocked alot of people's faith. This things are trivial but it really does affect people, so we have to be careful of the information we put out there, especially the ones we have the option to check how factual they are, because it's one thing to share information that we think is true even if they are not bit it's another thing to keep sharing them when someone else calls them into question. Again these things does affect real people.

Yeah,It's easy to say people are lazy for not digging these informations themselves but the reality is we all have different gifts. I might be able to break down the rape laws in Bible and put them in historical and cultural context as the HolySpirit helps me but actually being able to console someone who was really raped is something I won't be of much help.it would be hard for know the right words to use. Someone else who knows zilch about ancient cultures or what not might have the gift to help that person a whole lot better than I can.
So the best way I can help is to make sure to the best of my ability, I get accurate information across to people with other gifts, so they can in turn do what they are good at better. Thats the way I see things.

I did not take anything you wrote personally, it was merely a case of, I observed a developed pattern, worth mentioning

I'm still lost on this one?

I am equipped to when appropriate and led, to give as good, as I get.

You have to be careful with that one... You don't want to win a couple of battles but loose the war. You have to constantly ask yourself, what's the cost?

"²⁶Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness,
to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock,
and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it.
²⁷So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him;
male and female He created them"
- Genesis 1:26-27

I like red, as the colour, exudes an air of love, romance, boldness, courage, danger etcetera to me. We, human beings, are the image representation of different attributes of God. God is incorporeal, but created, human beings to physically project different aspect, images and likeness of the Godhead.

Image is instant, while likeness is continuum. The latter, is evident in Genesis 1:27, as seen above. Notice that the mention of "likeness" is left unsaid, in Genesis 1:27. Why? its because its continuum. Now, it is unfortunate that, ever since God took the adventure to create man in His image and likeness, man retrospectively has had the desire to want to return the favour and wilfully contravene "The Second Commandment" (i.e. Exodus 20:4- You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth) by creating God in his image, according to an atypical representation, formulation, theory, perverted idea, and classic misrepresentation of God

God is, incorporeal, hence has no clear definite shape or size, but Jesus Christ, is the product of God, projecting Himself out, as a human being in the person of Jesus Christ on earth. Jesus Christ is the visible image of the invisible God (i.e. 2 Corinthians 4:4b - Christ, who is the image of God and Philippians 2:6-7 - ⁶Though he was God, He did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.⁷Instead, He gave up his divine privileges; He took the humble position of a slave and was born as a human being. When He appeared in human form. Or, Colossians 1:15 - Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creation)

Fair enough. Though, The image of God concept and what it truly means to be human is a much deeper conversation than that. Maybe some other time we can go back and forth on it.

You jump to conclusions. I never said you abhorred me or have ill feelings towards me. I inferred that I observed a developed pattern

Mr MuttleyLaff, you said I was seething and scheming to get you. It doesn't get more ill feelings than that.

I have already shown my hands, laid my cards on the table, facing up with Luke 1:35, Matthew 1:18, Luke 2:8-15 and summarising with "Conception, fertilisation, impregnation et cetera is different to delivery, childbirth et cetera." I am more than happy to share with you sources of information, that expatiate on the conception and birth of Yahshua Ha Mashiach, aka Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour of the whole wide worldhood.

You seem to be more interested in winning an argument than admitting you were wrong. You and I both know this is not what the conversation was about...it's best to drop the conversation at this point.

jamesid29:
Like I said previously, the conversation is been driven by ego than anything else and at which point there's really no reason to continue.

On the contrary, it is driven by your your "id" and not your "ego" your "super-ego"

jamesid29:
I'm just going to ignore this part.

Be my guest. Wallow in ignorance, this is the prize you get because of your "id"

jamesid29:
Bro, Are you serious right now? This was the only conversation we had on that thread

Where is the seething and scheming here? How did you misconstrue this?
Were you expecting something special or something? You know that's not how this works.

Please let it go.

jamesid29:
I don't comment much on nairaland so I don't know most of this tricks. So Imagine my surprise seeing a convo that I thought was honest and ended on a good note. The whole stuff about Constantine and co could be easily fact checked and I just assumed you did that.

The whole stuff about Constantine and co could be easily fact checked that he instituted Christmas to align with the state's historical pagan festival tradition. You dont want to accept that the early Christian theologians didnt have the clout to make legislation, enforce and compel this practice as state policy.

As I have advanced, Constantine merged two traditions from the Roman festival, the December 17-25 week long pagan feast, called the Saturnalia and the birth of Mithras, the Persian god of light festival, with the nativity story in the Bible and the rest is history, on how Christmas was officially born

All I said was that, in the real sense of the word, it was Constantine who commissioned, the building of the Church of the nativity on a spot in Bethlehem assumed to be the exact birthplace of Christ. It was not any of the the early Christian theologians. I even volunteered a resource, I advised you to go check out, which again reproduced, the below excerpt, on who then, first made Christmas official and declared December 25th a civic holiday, lol.

"While there is one record of Christmas being celebrated in Antioch (Turkey) on December 25 in the middle of the second century, there is no record of its being observed on that date in Rome until the year 336 AD. In 350 AD Pope Julius I declared December 25 the official date and in 529 AD Emperor Justinian declared Christmas a civic holiday. Further legislation by the Council of Tours in 567 AD officially made Advent a period of fasting and preparation; the time from Christmas to Epiphany (the twelve days of Christmas) was also declared part of the festive season"
Excerpt from:
https://www.lnstar.com/mall/main-areas/xmas-not-first-choice.htm

jamesid29:
Things like these are not big deals. On the faith thread (https://www.nairaland.com/5997053/what-faith-really/4#92042066) where I gave the man props for his exposition on Hebrew 11:1, I didn't just give him props because what he said sounded good to my hears. I actually went to check out his usage of hypostasis in classical Greek and it held up, hence my giving him props for taking a interesting approach in interpreting the text. It gave me something interesting to ponder on and it ended up raising other questions(great thing about the Bible...you strike one down, other questions pop up) but I didn't think we needed to get into it those questions at the time since it was going to take us down a rabbit hole.
I just assumed you did that in the December 25th stuff thread and I moved on.
There's so much wrong information on the world today that it's good to have good & solid information out there also especially in the matters of faith, cos you never know the kind of burden you are putting on another person or how a particular kind of information affects other people.
These things are not just about winning arguments, it literally life and death on the line for some people (I mean salvation here). To show you how misinformation can take a life of its own, today we have people who believe the Pauline Letters are forgeries by the Catholic church because one blog said so, effectively cutting themselves of from major doctrines. Even a fiction book(not even something that claims to be historical) " the davinci code" rocked alot of people's faith. This things are trivial but it really does affect people, so we have to be careful of the information we put out there, especially the ones we have the option to check how factual they are, because it's one thing to share information that we think is true even if they are not bit it's another thing to keep sharing them when someone else calls them into question. Again these things does affect real people.

Once you have the Spirit of Truth, you'll be guided, things will be revealed to you et cetera

jamesid29:
Yeah, It's easy to say people are lazy for not digging these informations themselves but the reality is we all have different gifts. I might be able to break down the rape laws in Bible and put them in historical and cultural context as the HolySpirit helps me but actually being able to console someone who was really raped is something I won't be of much help.it would be hard for know the right words to use. Someone else who knows zilch about ancient cultures or what not might have the gift to help that person a whole lot better than I can.
So the best way I can help is to make sure to the best of my ability, I get accurate information across to people with other gifts, so they can in turn do what they are good at better. Thats the way I see things.

Will you please desist from opening and picking up healed wounds

jamesid29:
I'm still lost on this one?

Stop dwelling on it. Let it go. I have

jamesid29:
You have to be careful with that one... You don't want to win a couple of battles but loose the war. You have to constantly ask yourself, what's the cost?

It is nothing to do with me, please dont take the issue personal

jamesid29:
Fair enough. Though, The image of God concept and what it truly means to be human is a much deeper conversation than that. Maybe some other time we can go back and forth on it.

Likeness and image is the intention of the Godhead to make man like. Aside Genesis 1:26-27, for starters, go read up Genesis 5:1&3, in order, to get a proper handle and clearer perspective of what was unfolding

jamesid29:
Mr MuttleyLaff, you said I was seething and scheming to get you. It doesn't get more ill feelings than that.

No, I never said, you were out to get me. Remember, I typed in English, so limit yourself to exactly what I typed and stop adding extra more to it

jamesid29:
You seem to be more interested in winning an argument than admitting you were wrong. You and I both know this is not what the conversation was about...it's best to drop the conversation at this point.

I am not having an argument with you, so there isn't any argument for me to win. You seem to be more interested in hiding from the truth and that is fine by me.

MuttleyLaff:
On the contrary, it is driven by your your "id" and not your "ego" your "super-ego"

Be my guest. Wallow in ignorance, this is the prize you get because of your "id"

It is well

The whole stuff about Constantine and co could be easily fact checked that he instituted Christmas to align with the state's historical pagan festival tradition. You dont want to accept that the early Christian theologians didnt have the clout to make legislation, enforce and compel this practice as state policy.

As I have advanced, Constantine merged two traditions from the Roman festival, the December 17-25 week long pagan feast, called the Saturnalia and the birth of Mithras, the Persian god of light festival, with the nativity story in the Bible and the rest is history, on how Christmas was officially born

All I said was that, in the real sense of the word, it was Constantine who commissioned, the building of the Church of the nativity on a spot in Bethlehem assumed to be the exact birthplace of Christ. It was not any of the the early Christian theologians. I even volunteered a resource, I advised you to go check out, which again reproduced, the below excerpt, on who then, first made Christmas official and declared December 25th a civic holiday, lol.

"While there is one record of Christmas being celebrated in Antioch (Turkey) on December 25 in the middle of the second century, there is no record of its being observed on that date in Rome until the year 336 AD. In 350 AD Pope Julius I declared December 25 the official date and in 529 AD Emperor Justinian declared Christmas a civic holiday. Further legislation by the Council of Tours in 567 AD officially made Advent a period of fasting and preparation; the time from Christmas to Epiphany (the twelve days of Christmas) was also declared part of the festive season"
Excerpt from:
https://www.lnstar.com/mall/main-areas/xmas-not-first-choice.htm

And You just proved my point. Your resource is some blog by some people called globalbusinesscafe/lone star where there's no information on who they are, where they are getting their information from or atleast if they are qualified to be their own source or even anything remotely close to anything really.
This is exactly what I was saying in my previous post.

Just to quickly clarify it. Look at the dates written in your exerts, the earliest is 336AD and like I told you before,
the first day 336AD was not an official declaration. It comes from an old list of the death days of christian bishops with the first entry being
December 25: natus Christus in Betleem Judeae: “Christ was born in Bethlehem of Judea
It doesn't tell us there was any state celebration on that day, it was just an official list of bishops death days. You can go check it out.
The next one is 350AD, Constantine died in 337AD...The others are in the 500's AD so there's no point even talking about them.
Like I said before, The earliest document to suggest that Christianity intentionally changed a pagan feast day to that of the birth of Christ comes from the 12th century (Syriac biblical commentator Dionysius bar-Salibi). He wrote that Christians moved to day of Christ's birth back from January 6 to December 25th to coincide with the sol Invictus holiday and for some reason later biblical scholars ran with it and it later became popularized in the media. But more modern scholarships has shown that not to be true.
This again, you can check it up.
Anyway,it's fine. At this point, too much energy has been exerted on a very trivial matter.

Will you please desist from opening and picking up healed wounds

What are you talking about here again? Which old wound are you talking about?

Stop dwelling on it. Let it go. I have

I don't even know what you are talking about ,talkless of dwelling on it...

Likeness and image is the intention of the Godhead to make man like. Aside Genesis 1:26-27, for starters, go read up Genesis 5:1&3, in order, to get a proper handle and clearer perspective of what was unfolding

Sigh... There's just so much you don't but somehow you don't realise that whatever you think you know now is always going to be a fraction of what is to be known.
It's not a jab,it's something even people who are well respected in the field ascribe to.

Well man to man, I'm a bit disappointed with the things that have transpired these past couple of days. There's much to be said but being a public forum, its best to leave them unsaid.

In any case, it's all good. No harm no foul

jamesid29:
It is well

And You just proved my point. Your resource is some blog by some people called globalbusinesscafe/lone star where there's no information on who they are, where they are getting their information from or atleast if they are qualified to be their own source or even anything remotely close to anything really.
This is exactly what I was saying in my previous post.

Just to quickly clarify it. Look at the dates written in your exerts, the earliest is 336AD and like I told you before,
the first day 336AD was not an official declaration. It comes from an old list of the death days of christian bishops with the first entry being
December 25: natus Christus in Betleem Judeae: “Christ was born in Bethlehem of Judea
It doesn't tell us there was any state celebration on that day, it was just an official list of bishops death days. You can go check it out.
The next one is 350AD, Constantine died in 337AD...The others are in the 500's AD so there's no point even talking about them.
Like I said before, The earliest document to suggest that Christianity intentionally changed a pagan feast day to that of the birth of Christ comes from the 12th century (Syriac biblical commentator Dionysius bar-Salibi). He wrote that Christians moved to day of Christ's birth back from January 6 to December 25th to coincide with the sol Invictus holiday and for some reason later biblical scholars ran with it and it later became popularized in the media. But more modern scholarships has shown that not to be true.
This again, you can check it up.
Anyway,it's fine. At this point, too much energy has been exerted on a very trivial matter.

What are you talking about here again? Which old wound are you talking about?

I don't even know what you are talking about ,talkless of dwelling on it...

Sigh... There's just so much you don't but somehow you don't realise that whatever you think you know now is always going to be a fraction of what is to be known.
It's not a jab,it's something even people who are well respected in the field ascribe to.

Well man to man, I'm a bit disappointed with the things that have transpired these past couple of days. There's much to be said but being a public forum, its best to leave them unsaid.

In any case, it's all good. No harm no foul

---

---

---

MuttleyLaff:
jamesid29, you want precise facts, right? OK then, let's go straightaway there, lol. First and foremost, jamesid29, you err, when you typed, that there was no official festivity associated with them. jamesid29, c'mon now, what about all these Christmas paraphernalia? Are they too, like Christmas tree, the decorations, the burning fire yule log etcetera, devoid of pagan influence too, lol?

While its true, others, previously before Constantine, have been romancing with the idea of picking a day for the celebration of Jesus' birth, BUT, it actually was Roman Emperor, Constantine, who commandeered the pagan festival of Saturnalia to be converted and used to celebrate the birth of Christ, hence the December 25th that we have that pretends to be Jesus’ birthday, lol. It is a fact, that, before the year 336 AD, there is no record of December 25th being observed as the birth of Jesus, in Rome. The church in Rome began formally celebrating Christmas on December 25 in 336, during the reign of the emperor Constantine.

Constantine, having made Christianity, effectively the state religion of the empire, chose this date December 25th, as part of a political move to weaken the established popular pagan celebrations and Roman festival, the December 17-25 week long pagan feast, called the Saturnalia, that's characterised with people feasting and exchanging gifts with each other. Incidentally, also December 25th, is the birthday of the Indo-European deity Mithra, a god of light and loyalty and at that time, was increasingly achieving cult status with the Roman soldiers.

Starting on December 17 and lasting seven days, Saturn, the Roman god of agriculture, is being honored, lol, then starting on December 25 and lasting through January 1, commemorates the birth of Mithras, the Persian god of light, lol, but Constantine merged these two traditions from these festivals with the Nativity story in the Bible and the rest is history on how Christmas was born, lol.

I am saying this, in the real sense of the word, it was Constantine who commissioned, the building of the Church of the Nativity on a spot in Bethlehem assumed to be the exact birthplace of Christ. Check out the below excerpt, on who then, first made Christmas official and declared December 25th a civic holiday, lol.

"While there is one record of Christmas being celebrated in Antioch (Turkey) on December 25 in the middle of the second century, there is no record of its being observed on that date in Rome until the year 336 AD. In 350 AD Pope Julius I declared December 25 the official date and in 529 AD Emperor Justinian declared Christmas a civic holiday. Further legislation by the Council of Tours in 567 AD officially made Advent a period of fasting and preparation; the time from Christmas to Epiphany (the twelve days of Christmas) was also declared part of the festive season"
Excerpt from: https://www.lnstar.com/mall/main-areas/xmas-not-first-choice.htm

jamesid29, in your comments, you said, they are your own personal opinion, that "it's unclear as to when Christ was born as the Bible doesn't give us much information and it's also true that the early church didn't record celebrating the birth of Christ".

OK, let's go there on this comment too, lol. Lets separate facts from opinions but I'll start first, by reproducing here a quote of mine pasted here, taken from one of my posts on another thread

jamesid29, I think, "the elephant in the room" is what you called what's just being touched in the above quote, lol.

Opinions change, but facts don't, they never do jamesid29, because they're based on reality. jamesid29, lol, listen, if I should it break down, and by that, I mean embark to speak or write in detail about how Jesus was born in September/October, how one gets to know what month Jesus was conceived etcetera for you, ol'boy, your personal opinion(s), in the face of the presented facts, and there are a sizeable amount of these facts, will expressly change ooo and you'll pronto withdraw them, lol, yet, I am, all for, let sleeping dogs lie and not rocking the table, not discuss the matter any further, lol.

What really is your problem mister man?
Why have you put my matter for head as if like you're shrimp?

Be disappointed with how you keep tugging on what really I have put behind me.

I've just given you a repeat tidbit of how Christmas was legislated, but you still don't want to accept it, only to rubbish the link.

Only God knows how you would take another resource that gives details on Jewish tradition and understanding of conception and actual birth.

Who made Christmas celebration into law? Was it Constantine or any of the early believer theologians? Answer that question now. Smh.

Have you thoughtfully compared and contrasted Genesis 1:26-27 and Genesis 5:1&3, hmm? I don't think you have? Otherwise you wouldn't be going personal with that attitude of yours