₦airaland Forum

Bkayyy:
Well said. It is also noted that in the battle of arọ Chukwu with the ibibio, there was a stalemate before Eze Agwụ invited oké Nnachi which later decided the fate of the war. Now can the Number seeking claimer explain to us how an immigrant from Idu that bears Eze Agwụ (Igbo names) could know his way around igboland, seek alliance with somebody in igboland that has Igbo name, convince him with Idu language that obviously both were not mutual speakers or did they have an interpreter if they were not Igbos.
These guys think we are still in 19th Century where they can lie with English and go away with it

The kind of narratives you hear some Nigerians, even supposedly educated ones making, can assault anyone's sensibility.

Records have proven that the present day core Igbo areas have always been relatively densely populated, even during prehistoric times. Then how can a place like Ikwerre land that is just a few killometers away from Ngor Okpala and other aboriginal Igbo communities remain empty, even when surrounding areas were already occupied, and waiting for some for some Bini speaking tribes to arrive and occupy Only for the same tribe to completely lose all vestiges of the same Bini language, culture and tradition to those neighboring Igbos who never knew that an empty expanse of land was existing in their backyard

Again, does it mean that only the Igbo speaking areas of Rivers State such as Etche, Ikwerre, Ogba etc. that all lost their Bini language, culture and tradition while all those in Abia and Imo states retained theirs? How ridiculous!!

If Igboland that never engaged in territorial expansion except in isolated cases like the Bende areas of Abia state, could not impose their language, culture and tradition on the other minorities like the Ibibio, Efiks and Anangs then how were they able to achieve that with those in Rivers State? If changing people's culture, language and traditions were that easy, then why did the Bini in Edo state able to retain theirs despite all the Yoruba incursions in their areas while the phantom ones that migrated to Rivers State all lost theirs to Igbos.

Etinosa1234:
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2019/11/of-Yoruba-nyamiri-and-aboki/
An article that side talks abt the origin of the word Yoruba
http://www.ekimogundescendant.org/the-true-meaning-of-the-word-yoruba-2/
Obviously u didn't go through this...Read it and u'll see where it was the egba dissociate demselves from it...

I said..it was Crowther that popularised it for y'all...
Ahmed BABA used it to refer to the Oyo Empire

Besides makeshift translation of the word yoruba is false... check a translator

Beside ur article in no where states the origin of Yoruba
.But whatever makes u feel alright

I saw your links, but the problem with it is that both the links and your attachment are not as early as Ahmed Baba and S. Crowther. Lol.

Moreover, the very idea that Samuel Crowther popularized it for other subgroups is what demolishes your whole theory.

He is himself a Yoruba (not an Hausa), he is himself a Bishop (not a Sultan). There is no incentive then to popularize such word if it weren’t for the fact that the word is indigenous to his native land.

And I have indicated from the history of the word’s initial exclusive association with Oyo as well as its lexical structure that it began as an Oyo hegemonic phrase — “Oyo is the King [among others]” or “Oyo r’ Oba”.

And it is for this very reason (rather than the contradictory reason of foreign origin) that some major contending Yoruba subgroups would initially resist the term in replacement of “Nago” or “Lucumi”.

And I already replied to demonstrate the wacky logic of your attempt to translate “Yoruba” (as one word) from Yoruba language to English language using gOogle translate.

I mentioned that using the same logic, “Benin” (as one word) would either be meaningless in Edo language or may be claimed to be from Arabic because it at least has meaning in Arabic.

proeast:
The kind of narratives you hear some Nigerians, even supposedly educated ones making, can assault anyone's sensibility.

Records have proven that the present day core Igbo areas have always been relatively densely populated, even during prehistoric times. Then how can a place like Ikwerre land that is just a few killometers away from Ngor Okpala and other aboriginal Igbo communities remain empty, even when surrounding areas were already occupied, and waiting for some for some Bini speaking tribes to arrive and occupy Only for the same tribe to completely lose all vestiges of the same Bini language, culture and tradition to those neighboring Igbos who never knew that an empty expanse of land was existing in their backyard

Again, does it mean that only the Igbo speaking areas of Rivers State such as Etche, Ikwerre, Ogba etc. that all lost their Bini language, culture and tradition while all those in Abia and Imo states retained theirs? How ridiculous!!

If Igboland that never engaged in territorial expansion except in isolated cases like the Bende areas of Abia state, could not impose their language, culture and tradition on the other minorities like the Ibibio, Efiks and Anangs then how were they able to achieve that with those in Rivers State? If changing people's culture, language and traditions were that easy, then why did the Bini in Edo state able to retain theirs despite all the Yoruba incursions in their areas while the phantom ones that migrated to Rivers State all lost theirs to Igbos.

They think we are all simpletons

TAO11:
I saw your links, the problem with it bearing that they are not as early as Ahmed Baba and S. Crowther. Lol.

And I already replied to demonstrate the wacky logic of your attempt to translate “Yoruba” (as one word) from Yoruba language to English language using gOogle translate.

I mentioned that using the same logic, “Benin” (as one word) would either be meaningless in Edo language or may be claimed to be from Arabic because it at least has meaning in Arabic.

Majority of intellectual Yorubas...gave their opinion which clearly states that the origin of Yoruba is a foreign word... Majority is always right... U should first tell ur people that the origin is a lie that only u are correct lol..As long as they believe that the name is foreign...know that it binds on u not like it was my people that said it
Ask urself why it's egbe Omo Oduduwa not egbe Omo Yoruba..why it's oodua people Congress not Yoruba people congress.....

Those articles I cited gave their opinion with sources from the same Yoruba pple to back it up..read it again especially the egba part

Since u begged me not to translate the word Yoruba , I've decided to translate the word Oyo is king to Yoruba...see my result.. so can u kindly tell me..with proofs on how the word was corrupted in different stages to be Yoruba

Benin own goes thus. Ile Ibinu -- ubini - Bini - Benin

So tell me how Oyo ni Oba got to Yoruba..with proofs ..
Till then ... majority still stands
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2019/11/of-Yoruba-nyamiri-and-aboki/
http://www.ekimogundescendant.org/the-true-meaning-of-the-word-yoruba-2/
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2019/10/yoruba-leaders-disagree-over-origin-meaning-of-their-name/

In a zoom meeting now. I’d give you a detailed response soon. Stay tuned.

cc: Etinosa1234

Tao with the fraudulent lies..... I may not speak it...but I have something that can translate it

TAO11

Etinosa1234:
That's y'all still lick Yoruba ass.
Its a cycle..

Don't let me swear for u for 600yrs

It's not cycle.
You oyoroba slaves are shameless slaves, you have been killing and maiming yourselves for your Hausa masters since the time of Akintola and Awolowo.

Ask Hausa man what Yoruba means.

JubrilBuhari:
It's not cycle.
You oyoroba slaves are shameless slaves, you can you having been killing and maiming yourselves for your Hausa masters since the time of Akintola and Awolowo.

Ask Hausa man what Yoruba means. He is

its like u want Yoruba people to cry

cc: TAO11

Bkayyy:
Incase you don't know, the difference between the current "Bini" people and Esan is that unlike the Bini people that were mentally subjugated by the new Yoruba Oba system that caused hostilities between Idu and their neighbours, the Esans never fell for the Yoruba Oba and as such Idu was divided and the elements of Idu persisted in Esan where the four market days introduced by nri migrants are in full practice, Esan maintained the Nri sacred and spiritual system thus making now Yoruba accultured Bini people to see them as fetish and witches

Yeah, right.

[img]http:///65535/50251769926_f3f648e5f8_c.jpg[/img]

[img]http:///65535/50251777581_f2924d2cd8_b.jpg[/img]

[img]http:///65535/50251778306_3da7e3709a_c.jpg[/img]

Igboid:
There is nothing fake about the above write up.

The Benin history has been deliberately and fraudulently muddled up with Bini (Igbodomigodo) history by Benins for pride and land grabbing agenda.

We in Igbo land know for certain that there was an ancient Bini which we call Idu in Igboland.
We also have ancient tales of the war between the Idu and the Oba, it's called agha "Idu n'oba " in Igbo folklore.
Idu was the land where many Igbos migrated to and lived in the past. It so happened that Idu got invaded by the current Oba dynasty from Ile ife, who fought ferociously with Idu people causing the Igbo indigenous people there to migrate back to Igboland. The Oba dynasty would finally establish a parallel throne in Iduland and formed the current Beinin kingdom, whose contact with the Portuguese enabled it to gain weapons with which it went about terrorizing neighboring Idu( Edo tribes), Western Igbo and Eastern Yoruba tribes, to form the Benin empire.

Recently, there have been a recent attempt by Idu people led by the Ogiemien to resuscitate their dying kingdom from the Yoruba Oba invaders in Benin .

so many reasons they abolished History in Nigeria

Igboid:
There has always been Igbo people.

We existed as independent clans and went by our clan names, while we called each other Igbos.
To understand the concept of "Igbo", as an Ogidi man, if I meet someone speaking an Igbo dialect I am not sure is Ogidi.
I would ask him: "Ibu onye Ogidi ka ibu onye Igbo", meaning : Are you an Ogidi person or are you an Igbo person.

The person will now reply : Abum onye Igbo or Abum onye Ogidi. I am Ogidi person or I am an Igbo person.

Assuming this person is from a town called Nanka and I visited Nanka and the person wants to know who I am, since he had observed my Igbo dialect doesn't sound like Nanka dialect.
He would ask me, " I bu onye Nanka ka ibu onye Igbo "meaning "Are you from Nanka or from Igbo".
I will then answer, A bum onye Igbo( I am an Igbo).

The concept of Igbo is that everyone who speak similar language to you is Igbo while you identify by your own clans name.

We call each other Igbo but never called ourselves Igbos, until the white came and did the obvious.

The tragedy of Africa is that we never had written details of our history.

And I believe this is the major cause of underdevelopment of this continent

It was even the Europeans that wrote a bit about our history
While the Asians, Europeans have thousands of years of written down, documented history.

It's very pathetic indeed

Etinosa1234:
First what's the meaning of Oba
..

Secondly ...He stated that the name of Benin...Ilo Ibinu was given by the nri(no proof yet, Jus fables)

Thirdly...it is widely known that It was the Yoruba that gave u guys the name Igbo because of where u lived...
Just as it was Fulani that gave the Yoruba their name also...

Lastly ...I want u to tell me the meaning of Igbo in ur language

All I Jus wanted was for him to prove how the name Ilo Ibinu came from Igbo...

Oba in Igbo means barn. In ancient Igbo, barn and yam represent wealth.
Oba also means a sea creature called "Oba mmili ", I think it's a sort of amphibian but different from Crocodile (Agu iyi).

Igbo means "the people" in Igbo. It also can mean dry land as against "olu" which means riverine/wetland.
The Yoruba can't give us the name Igbo when they can't pronounce it. Igbo in Yoruba sounds more like Igbo in marijuana. That's how you pronounce "Ijebu-Igbo ". They are obviously not same thing. You can't give a name you can't pronounce.

Igboid:
Oba in Igbo means barn. In ancient Igbo, barn and yam represent wealth.
Oba also means a sea creature called "Oba mmili ", I think it's a sort of amphibian but different from Crocodile (Agu iyi).

Igbo means "the people" in Igbo. It also can mean dry land as against "olu" which means riverine/wetland.
The Yoruba can't give us the name Igbo when they can't pronounce it. Igbo in Yoruba sounds more like Igbo in marijuana. That's how you pronounce "Ijebu-Igbo ". They are obviously not same thing. You can't give a name you can't pronounce.

So name a royalty barn, wealth...

U are correct..I believe u

Etinosa1234:
its like u want Yoruba people to cry

cc: TAO11

Perhaps! Lol.

See link: https://www.nairaland.com/6064389/return-igbos-migrated-idu-igodomigodo/6#93084953

Christistruth00:
Exactly what I was thinking. They should just steer clear of Yorubaland with their History for purposes of Land grabbing.

They have been eyeing Lagos lately.

Some Fulani were even trying to claim Southern Kaduna a few days ago Thank God everyone already knows where each others territories begins and ends.

LOL

Etinosa123,
Give a breakdown of Yoruba in Hausa language.

1. Who in Hausa country coined the word?
2. What does it mean?
3. What was the significance or value placed in it?


To help you,
1. Ile Ubinu was coined by Oranmiyan.
2. It means land of rebellion (vexation).
3. The significance was the establishment of a new dynastic rulership.


Cc
Tao11

Bkayyy:
Incase you don't know, the difference between the current "Bini" people and Esan is that unlike the Bini people that were mentally subjugated by the new Yoruba Oba system that caused hostilities between Idu and their neighbours, the Esans never fell for the Yoruba Oba and as such Idu was divided and the elements of Idu persisted in Esan where the four market days introduced by nri migrants are in full practice, Esan maintained the Nri sacred and spiritual system thus making now Yoruba accultured Bini people to see them as fetish and witches

Clear and apt.

Areafada2 is a Yoruba Bini man that will twist history trying to fix others in inorder to cause frictions...

Igboid:
Oba in Igbo means barn. In ancient Igbo, barn and yam represent wealth.
Oba also means a sea creature called "Oba mmili ", I think it's a sort of amphibian but different from Crocodile (Agu iyi).

Igbo means "the people" in Igbo. It also can mean dry land as against "olu" which means riverine/wetland.
The Yoruba can't give us the name Igbo when they can't pronounce it. Igbo in Yoruba sounds more like Igbo in marijuana. That's how you pronounce "Ijebu-Igbo ". They are obviously not same thing. You can't give a name you can't pronounce.

In another context Oba means wealth , someone who has accumulated so much wealth like Ezeoba.


Even in statement it is used... Instance if I send this boy there, in years o wuru oba...wealth accumulation...

BabaRamota1980:
Etinosa123,
Give a breakdown of Yoruba in Hausa language.

1. Who in Hausa country coined the word?
2. What does it mean?
3. What was the significance or value placed in it?


To help you,
1. Ile Ubinu was coined by Oranmiyan.
2. It means land of rebellion (vexation).
3. The significance was the establishment of a new dynastic rulership.


Cc
Tao11

Don't jump into arguments that u don't understand... Tao's main claim is that the word Yoruba was indigenous to the Yoruba meaning Oyo is king... She further went to claim that Oyo is king means Oyo r'oba in Yoruba however, I have translated the phrase Oyo is King on Google and asked some Yoruba people to help me translate ...Most were in agreement with Google wic translated it as Oyo ni Oba... So I went further to translate the word Oyo r'oba and I couldn't get any result
First Question for u:
What does Oyo r'oba mean and give me instances in Yoruba where the word Ri or r' were used lets find out the meaning

Also , TAO also claimed that the word Oyo r'oba that she claims was later corrupted to Yoruba predates the work of clapperton and Sultan Bello..it happened to be a lie because Crowther wrote his book by 1852... The Sultan Bello and clapperton were already dead by then...So there is every possibility that Crowther book(Given that there was no collective name for people in the western region then) was influenced by the clapperton and Sultan Bello...
Second Question:
Provide references to a work of any historian that used the word Oyo r'oba to talk abt the people living in the western region. Also Provide the name of the person that gave them Oyo r'oba and their book

Lastly ..look at the excerpt that Tao posted...does it in anyway tell the origin of the word Yoruba or it just attempts to correct what it sees as a wrong pronunciation

Now to ur question ..The word Yoruba was first seen in Ahmed Baba's book as Yarba or Yarriba

It was used to refer to the Oyo subgroup before it became a collective name

The original meaning is not known but it is being said that it means a shady person

Now permit me throw the question back to u
Give a breakdown of Yoruba in Yoruba language.

1. Who in Yoruba country coined the word?
2. What does it mean?
3. What was the significance or value placed in it?

adadike:
Oguta , obodi and Onitsha people should come and join me o. I don park my motor for here. This is going to be an interesting thread

you mean obosi. The op is write, even till today Ezechima still handles kingship in Obosi and have families far to delta and positive influence in Edo then.

This is an article written by A YORUBA PERSON... Keep fabricating lies let the World keep laffing at u

Ifa: Orisa Museum of Virtual Art
What does Yoruba/Yooba even mean? A response to Jide Fajuyi.
The first scholar to use the word 'Yarba' was a Berber scholar from Timbuktu. He was known as Ahmad Baba al-Massufi al-Timbukti (Abu al-Abbas Ahmad ibn Ahmad al-Takruri Al-Massufi al-Timbukti ) in his work 'Miraj al-su'ud ila nayl hukm mujallab al-su'ud', also known as 'al-Kashf wa’l-bayan li-asnaf majlub al-sudan' ( ﻣﻌﺮﺍﺝ ﺍﻟﺼﻌﻮﺩ ﺇﻟﻰ ﻧﻴﻞ ﻣﺠﻠﻮﺏ ﺍﻟﺴﻮﺩﺍﻥ : ﺃﺣﻤﺪ ﺑﺎﺑﺎ ﻳﺠﻴﺐ ﻋﻠﻰ ﺗﺴﺎﺅﻻﺕ ﺍﻟﻤﻐﺎﺭﺑﺔ ﺣﻮﻝ ﺍﻟﺮﻕ ) to refer to people in what is now Oyo, Osun, and parts of Kwara. Originally the word Yarba, Yaruba and Yoruba and its various spellings applied exclusively to the people of Old Oyo.
The work is a fatwa legitimizing enslavement of non-Muslims in the West African sub-region in following the Maliki Madhab, while also illegitimizing the enslavement of Muslims. Ahmad Baba considered the enslavement of non-muslims as “the will of God.”. It was written for Muslim rulers of the then Songhai Empire. The work was written in 1614 and later Muhammed Bello, Usman Dan Fodio’s son and second Sultan of Sokoto, in his ‘Infaq al-Maysur’ written in 1812 copied the name from al Massufi’s book and passed it down to Hausa speakers. Hugh Clapperton(who was navigating the Niger at about the same time) reportedly also heard it from Muhammed Bello when he inquired about the people to the South.
The 'Yoruba' identifier coincided with the coming of the Islam to Oyo Empire. Before the late 19th century, the term Yoruba refers only to the Oyos, while a lot of people who speak the Edekiri continuum were recognized by dialectal affiliation e.g Egba, Ijesa, Ife, Yagba, Igbomina, Ekiti, Ijesha, Ikale, Awori, Egbado, Ohori, Ije, Idasha people etc. collectively they refer to themselves as called “karo o ji re” or Olukumi.
The use of Yoruba as the national identity was solidified by the work of the missionaries especially with the work of Henry Townsend who establish the first newspaper called ‘Iwe Iroyin fun Awon Yoruba ati Egba’ (Newspaper for the Yorubas(Oyo) and the Egbas), Samuel Ajai Crowther and others.

Ahmad Baba Al Massufi Al-Timbukti https://
www.wdl.org/ar/item/9661/view/1/1/
Farooq Kperogi The Intellectual Case Against Nigeria’s Break-Up (III) https://www.farooqkperog
i.com/…/the-intellectual-case-again…
John Hunwick 'Timbuktu and the Songhay Empire: Al-Saʿdi's Taʾrīkh Al-Sūdān Down to 1613 and other documents'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Ahmad_Baba_al_Massufi
Hunwick, J.O. (1964), "A New Source for the Biography of Ahmad Baba al-Tinbukti (1556-1627)", Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies, 27: 568–593, doi:10.1017/
s0041977x00118385, JSTOR 611391

cc: gregyboy TAO11 MinorityOpinion BabaRamota1980 LegendHero Hellraiser77 Ofoigbo Obalatule... And anyone to whom this piece of information might be important to

Etinosa1234:
This is an article written by A YORUBA PERSON... Keep fabricating lies let the World keep laffing at u

Ifa: Orisa Museum of Virtual Art
What does Yoruba/Yooba even mean? A response to Jide Fajuyi.
The first scholar to use the word 'Yarba' was a Berber scholar from Timbuktu. He was known as Ahmad Baba al-Massufi al-Timbukti (Abu al-Abbas Ahmad ibn Ahmad al-Takruri Al-Massufi al-Timbukti ) in his work 'Miraj al-su'ud ila nayl hukm mujallab al-su'ud', also known as 'al-Kashf wa’l-bayan li-asnaf majlub al-sudan' ( ﻣﻌﺮﺍﺝ ﺍﻟﺼﻌﻮﺩ ﺇﻟﻰ ﻧﻴﻞ ﻣﺠﻠﻮﺏ ﺍﻟﺴﻮﺩﺍﻥ : ﺃﺣﻤﺪ ﺑﺎﺑﺎ ﻳﺠﻴﺐ ﻋﻠﻰ ﺗﺴﺎﺅﻻﺕ ﺍﻟﻤﻐﺎﺭﺑﺔ ﺣﻮﻝ ﺍﻟﺮﻕ ) to refer to people in what is now Oyo, Osun, and parts of Kwara. Originally the word Yarba, Yaruba and Yoruba and its various spellings applied exclusively to the people of Old Oyo.
The work is a fatwa legitimizing enslavement of non-Muslims in the West African sub-region in following the Maliki Madhab, while also illegitimizing the enslavement of Muslims. Ahmad Baba considered the enslavement of non-muslims as “the will of God.”. It was written for Muslim rulers of the then Songhai Empire. The work was written in 1614 and later Muhammed Bello, Usman Dan Fodio’s son and second Sultan of Sokoto, in his ‘Infaq al-Maysur’ written in 1812 copied the name from al Massufi’s book and passed it down to Hausa speakers. Hugh Clapperton(who was navigating the Niger at about the same time) reportedly also heard it from Muhammed Bello when he inquired about the people to the South.
The 'Yoruba' identifier coincided with the coming of the Islam to Oyo Empire. Before the late 19th century, the term Yoruba refers only to the Oyos, while a lot of people who speak the Edekiri continuum were recognized by dialectal affiliation e.g Egba, Ijesa, Ife, Yagba, Igbomina, Ekiti, Ijesha, Ikale, Awori, Egbado, Ohori, Ije, Idasha people etc. collectively they refer to themselves as called “karo o ji re” or Olukumi.
The use of Yoruba as the national identity was solidified by the work of the missionaries especially with the work of Henry Townsend who establish the first newspaper called ‘Iwe Iroyin fun Awon Yoruba ati Egba’ (Newspaper for the Yorubas(Oyo) and the Egbas), Samuel Ajai Crowther and others.

Ahmad Baba Al Massufi Al-Timbukti https://
www.wdl.org/ar/item/9661/view/1/1/
Farooq Kperogi The Intellectual Case Against Nigeria’s Break-Up (III) https://www.farooqkperog
i.com/…/the-intellectual-case-again…
John Hunwick 'Timbuktu and the Songhay Empire: Al-Saʿdi's Taʾrīkh Al-Sūdān Down to 1613 and other documents'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Ahmad_Baba_al_Massufi
Hunwick, J.O. (1964), "A New Source for the Biography of Ahmad Baba al-Tinbukti (1556-1627)", Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies, 27: 568–593, doi:10.1017/
s0041977x00118385, JSTOR 611391

cc: gregyboy TAO11 MinorityOpinion BabaRamota1980 LegendHero Hellraiser77 Ofoigbo Obalatule... And anyone to whom this piece of information might be important to

Etinosa, I did not ask you to quote what others say. Im asking for your intelligent input.

Respond back to the three questions. I already gavr you hint using Benin. Ile Ubini is Yoruba word.

What language is Yarba, Yarriba, Yaruba? Is Ahmed Baba an Hausaman?


Cc
Tao11

Etinosa1234:
Don't jump into arguments that u don't understand... Tao's main claim is that the word Yoruba was indigenous to the Yoruba meaning Oyo is king... She further went to claim that Oyo is king means Oyo r'oba in Yoruba however, I have translated the phrase Oyo is King on Google and asked some Yoruba people to help me translate ...Most were in agreement with Google wic translated it as Oyo ni Oba... So I went further to translate the word Oyo r'oba and I couldn't get any result
First Question for u:
What does Oyo r'oba mean and give me instances in Yoruba where the word Ri or r' were used lets find out the meaning

Also , TAO also claimed that the word Oyo r'oba that she claims was later corrupted to Yoruba predates the work of clapperton and Sultan Bello..it happened to be a lie because Crowther wrote his book by 1852... The Sultan Bello and clapperton were already dead by then...So there is every possibility that Crowther book(Given that there was no collective name for people in the western region then) was influenced by the clapperton and Sultan Bello...
Second Question:
Provide references to a work of any historian that used the word Oyo r'oba to talk abt the people living in the western region. Also Provide the name of the person that gave them Oyo r'oba and their book

Lastly ..look at the excerpt that Tao posted...does it in anyway tell the origin of the word Yoruba or it just attempts to correct what it sees as a wrong pronunciation

Now to ur question ..The word Yoruba was first seen in Ahmed Baba's book as Yarba or Yarriba

It was used to refer to the Oyo subgroup before it became a collective name

The original meaning is not known but it is being said that it means a shady person

Now permit me throw the question back to u
Give a breakdown of Yoruba in Yoruba language.

1. Who in Yoruba country coined the word?
2. What does it mean?
3. What was the significance or value placed in it?

Whay do you mean "dont jump in"? Have you lost your mind?

You claim Yoruba was given to us by Hausa. Is that correct?

Etinosa1234:
Tao(posting what she obviously knows is a lie): There is an account from Roupell that states that the people then(1800s) said Eweka came from Ife as a warrior
Ayoola: That clearly isn't true...What abt Oranmiyan

[Tao: I don't care.. I believe that it's true because it's ur people...not like they were forced to say it[/b]

At this point, you’re clearly clutching at straws and passing-off blatant falsehoods just to save-face. Lol.

Regarding the bolded in your comment here, my actual words are in fact the direct opposite where I noted that: Edo accounts (especially the earliest known written account) are not binding on me but are binding on the Edo person. Now you know you’re caught pants down.

On the issue of the origin of the name Yoruba

Me: There has been several accounts mostly by ur people that Yoruba is a foreign word ... so using ur logic it binds on u

...

Tao(writing an essay long article): No, tHeY arE wRonG, fALse NoTIOn... ITs a POPulaR NoTIon... I am THe oNLy OnE cORRect

Except that you still fail to understand what an historical account is and what it is not. Analysis on Vanguard, Tribune, etc. are not historical accounts — they are simply attempts at passing off opinions on an issue — And in doing so, these specific ones contradict the historical accounts themselves as I have repeatedly demonstrated.

I, on the other hand, have simply considered the early sources and accounts themselves — e.g.:

(a) I considered the fact that the year 1613 (Ahmed Baba’s writings) came before the 1800s (the Hausa/Fulani writings) thereby dismantling the Hausa/Fulani theory.

(b) I considered the historical fact that S. Crowther’s (being a Yoruba Bishop and Linguist) pushing hard for the general adoption is significant evidence of the indigenous nature of the name to the Yoruba people.

(c) I considered the mid-1800s writings of S. Crowther (which obviously predates Vanguard and Tribune by almost two centuries) which states clearly that “Yarri.ba” and “Yaru.ba” are simply Hausa spellings/pronunciations.

1) See. You don't know what u are doing..If u are versed in Benin history, aren't u suppose to know How Oranmiyan came, named the land Ile Ibinu (land of annoyance)because of the way the Edos behave then...

The account which says that the name “Benin” was originally from Oranmiyan’s initial coinage — “Ile-Ibinu” is one account, and may be the truth.

On the other hand, an earlier written account which says says that the name “Benin” was originally from Eweka’s salve — “Ubini” is also one account which may equally be the truth.

In fact, this account about the name from Eweka’s slave is earlier in writing (in writing) than that about Oranmiyan’s coinage. But in any case, both are extant Bini traditional accounts from early Edo sources.

Now check Ile Ibinu in a Google translate and see what it gives u... U gave a theory that the word Yoruba was formed from the word "Oyo is king" so Google translate ought to give me the word Oyo r'oba not Oyo ni Oba

Again, there is not just one account of the initial origin of the name “Benin”.

While Egharevba’s account in the mid-1900s has it to be from ”Ile Ibinu”, another account (an earlier written account from the late-1800s) has it to be from “Ubini”.

So, if you must be really super consistent, then you should be applying gOogLe translate to “Ubini” instead and be contented with whatever it throws back, since gOoGLe translate — according to you — is the way to go for etymological analysis.

Just to add the following as an appendix here — even though its absence takes absolutely nothing away from my actual argument here which I have established already:

Even if this tradition from Egharevba’s account turns out to be the actual true one, Oranmiyan (being a late-1100s/early-1200s Yoruba personage) could not possibly have uttered the modern Yoruba word “Ibinu” for “anger”.

What is more likely then is a more archaic Yoruba equivalent, viz. ”Ubinu”. The collateral evidence for this comes from the Itsekiri and Ijebu rendition of “Ife” as “Ufe”, or the Ijebu (and ?Itsekiri) rendition of “Ibinu” as “Ubinu”; “Ilé” as “Ulé”; and so forth for virtually all modern Yoruba nouns beginning with the syllable “i”..

... I also asked am elderly Yoruba person and what she told me Oyo ni Oba

Lol. No Yoruba person would ever tell you that “Oyo ni Oba” does not mean “Oyo is the King”. No one said they would deny that.

Instead, the education I was endowing on you (but which you obviously struggle with) is that, even in the mid-1850s — that is, only about 170 years ago — “li” was still very much in use as an older equivalent of the English word ”is”. It has obviously generally fallen into disuse today and replaced altogether by “ni”. — I cited the Yoruba Bible from the mid-1800s as evidence.

In the light of this obvious over-time changes, I then inquired into what the pre-1600s Yoruba equivalent could have possibly been by alluding to the Ijebu axis as a source of collateral linguistic evidence given its relative stability over time.

I found that the equivalent word, in this dialect, for the English word “is” is neither “ni” nor “li” but instead “ri” — This being a logical pointer to what a more archaic Yoruba equivalent of "ni" and "li" is.

.... I've also posted the question openly on nairaland and still nothing like Oyo r'oba
Keep lieing to suit ur narrative...u'll have to give me reference the word Oyo r'oba was first used

I am glad that the education being served out to you here is beginning to be worth the time as you’ve just admitted to taking some initiative to cross-check information.

So, in the light of the above re-iteration of my actual position on the nuances and changes of certain Yoruba words over time, what you must do now is to go back to that Nairaland post and modify it so that it is in line with my argument — that way you will be putting a fair end to your misrepresentation of my actual position. So, your modified post will go along the lines:

“If you are a very confident and fluent speaker of the Ijebu dialect of the Yoruba language, could you please confirm to me how the phrase “Oyo is the King” will be rendered in an unadulterated Ijebu dialect?? Thank you”

@nisai, your attention and help may be needed by our friend in this regard. Thanks!

before u continue to blame Google translate, ask ur self, was Google translate Yoruba done by a Yoruba person/ someone versed in Yoruba language or a foreigner who has no Idea abt the language...

This is again another fresh angle to your celebration of your own ignorance.

First of all, Google Translate doesn’t work as you‘ve ignorantly described here. It is designed to simply search the internet for whatever material is out there in relation to the input. It’s not like each language aspect was outsourced to certain native people. Lol.

Secondly, there are materials you could read which are specifically dedicated to describing what may be called the “shallowness” of Google Translate. They echo the very things I’ve been explaining to you. You may find this one helpful.

Thirdly, you yourself would have since realized my point if you had been lucky enough to be a speaker of any two of the languages available on Google Translate. You would have noticed the shallowness yourself.

In any case, Google Translate does not offer etymological analysis — that is, examining a word or phrase in its historical context, as well as in the context of the linguistic changes the word or phrase has undergone.

So now the idea of ur GOOGLE TRANSLATE is wrong has been squashed because I've asked some Yoruba people already

Smiles. You wish, right? I have just addressed this in the foregoing ’block of comment’.

2) Now.... nowhere In Ur article that u keep insisting on made mention of Oyo is king as the progenitor of the word yoruba. It says and I quote

European travellers obtained the word Katanga from The Hausa people, likewise Yarriba, Yaruba is a Hausa pronunciation. But Yoruba is the correct pronouciation

Can u now take it upon ur self to show where u got the word Oyo r'oba in Crowther book

Again, my point about alluding to Samuel Crowther is to demonstrate the following:

(i) That Samuel Crowther was a key figure in the struggle to ensure that all the sub-groups adopt the word "Yoruba" as their umbrella-designation — thus replacing “Lukumi” and “Nago”.

(ii) That Samuel Crowther (being a Yoruba man, being a Bishop, and being a Linguist) could not possible have struggled tirelessly for such cause had the word itself been an Hausa/Fulani word (or any foreign word for that matter).

(iii) That as at the mid-1800s, Samuel Crowther himself makes it super clear in this early account that the words ”Yarri.ba” and “Yaru.ba” (popularized by Clapperton’s 1820s writing) are simply Hausa pronunciations/spellings. See embedded image for a refresher.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12179655_20fc7d5b550d42f1b345100a7e5bdbb0_jpeg_jpegc8ebb262a6c00829746dc983b86ad5dc

.... Atleast mine goes thus...The word Yoruba is a loanword from the Hausa exonym ie Yarba, Yarriba

If what you take this statement here to mean is in the same sense of saying that the word “Benin” or “Beny” are Portuguese ”exonym”, then that’s fair enough. Smiles.

But if what you insist on here is that the word “Yoruba” comes from an indigenous Hausa (Fulani) word (in the same sense as someone saying that the word “Bini” comes from an indigenous Portuguese word), then you have a lot of impossible explaining to do.

Firstly, you will have to find a way of explaining away the historical fact that the first written reference to Yoruba was not in the Hausa (Fulani) writings of the 1800s, but in the Songhay writing of the year 1613 by the Timbuktu scholar Ahmed Baba.

Secondly, you will have to find your way of explaining away the historical fact that a mid-1800s work (which obviously predates any year 2000s links and attachments you have) clearly states that “Yarri.ba” and “Yaru.ba” are simply Hausa pronunciations (or spellings).

Having made the foregoing clarifications on what my reference to Samuel Crowther actually is, it is important for the sake of completion and emphasis to reiterate what my reference to his work was never about.

My reference to his work was never about the phrase “Oyo is the King”. No where did I ever cite Crowther for this argument.

My citation of Crowther’s work was to establish one thing and one thing only which is that: the word “Yoruba” is an indigenous Yoruba word. This point was repeatedly established clearly. [Refer to (i), (ii), and (iii) for a refresher].

Having established that the word “Yoruba” is an indigenous word — which is the actual theme of this exchange, the question of which one among Yoruba words it is becomes a secondary and an entirely different debate.

But in any case, I never cited S. Crowther for the phrase “Oyo is the King”. That is a blatant lie on your part, and I think you should do better than that.

Don't u think it should be nice for Crowther to have the origin of the word instead of just telling us a corrupted word that he clearly had no idea abt its origin .. Just point it out to me...

Again, Crowther made it clear that ”Yarri.ba” or “Yaru.ba” are simply Hausa spellings — a proof of its indigenousness to the Yoruba people.

Also, Crowther fought tirelessly to ensure the adoption of this name by all the subgroups — another proof of its indigenousness to the Yoruba people.

In conclusion, your idea that “he clearly had no idea about its origin” is your own assumption. In fact your specific conclusion here is a logical fallacy known, in argumentation, logic and historical analysis, as argumentum ex silentio — more like: We can’t tell from his book if he knows the origin or not, hence this is an evidence proving that he did not know the origin.

3)those links I posted were from a few of the numerous Yoruba scholars who have asserted that the word Yoruba is foreign...it also contains chronological breakdown of the word from its origin till now... Do well to read it...

I have addressed this superficial claim of many links in my deconstruction of majority/popular. In fact, when I checked one of them, it says the complete opposite of all you’ve been saying. It states clearly that the word “Yoruba” is indigenous to the Yoruba people.

However, I have shown that the number of Vanguard links actually has nothing against the fact that early accounts and historical fact all point unyieldingly to the fact that the word “Yoruba” is indigenous to the Yoruba people.

Ohhh..and screenshot the ones that supported u on ur claim that Oyo is the king is the origin of Yoruba. Let me see it

For the umpteenth time, I have stated that my screenshot has nothing to do with the phrase “Oyo is the King”. Instead, my screenshot was meant to establish that the word “Yoruba” is indigenous to the Yoruba people.

Moreover, the actual point of my exchange with you is to determine whether or not the word “Yoruba” is indigenous to the Yoruba people — a point which I have established again and again in the positive.

This conclusion then shows that the question of what specific Yoruba word (or phrase) became “Yoruba” over time is secondary. And I have taken time to adduce both historical and linguistic evidence to support Farouk Martins’ cursory allusion to “Oyo r’Oba” in his essay entitled “Yoruba World Exploration and the Loss of Dynasties” published on Race and History.

Lastly ... u've been tagging ur people all along since...why haven't they supported u with references to the claim that Yoruba originally means Oyo is king

I have been tagging my people so they can read along, enjoy the post, and have fun. If there is any need for me to read a material which I have no access to at the moment, what I often do is to humbly ask for it from those whom I think may have it. Isn’t that what you would have done?

Its funny how u claim that ajayi Crowther book written in 1852 predates the ones written in the 1820s -1830s

Samuel Ajayi Crowther’s book of 1852 (first published 1843) states clearly, as I have repeatedly shown, that “Yarri.ba” and “Yaru.ba” are simply Hausa spellings/pronunciations.

Can you now please show me the supposed 1820s and 1830s books where they claim that “Yarri.ba” and “Yaru.ba” are indigenous Hausa (Fulani) words?? Thanks!

cc: LegendHero, MinorityOpinion, BabaRamota1980.

Etinosa1234:
This is an article written by A YORUBA PERSON... Keep fabricating lies let the World keep laffing at u

Ifa: Orisa Museum of Virtual Art
What does Yoruba/Yooba even mean? A response to Jide Fajuyi.
The first scholar to use the word 'Yarba' was a Berber scholar from Timbuktu. He was known as Ahmad Baba al-Massufi al-Timbukti (Abu al-Abbas Ahmad ibn Ahmad al-Takruri Al-Massufi al-Timbukti ) in his work 'Miraj al-su'ud ila nayl hukm mujallab al-su'ud', also known as 'al-Kashf wa’l-bayan li-asnaf majlub al-sudan' ( ﻣﻌﺮﺍﺝ ﺍﻟﺼﻌﻮﺩ ﺇﻟﻰ ﻧﻴﻞ ﻣﺠﻠﻮﺏ ﺍﻟﺴﻮﺩﺍﻥ : ﺃﺣﻤﺪ ﺑﺎﺑﺎ ﻳﺠﻴﺐ ﻋﻠﻰ ﺗﺴﺎﺅﻻﺕ ﺍﻟﻤﻐﺎﺭﺑﺔ ﺣﻮﻝ ﺍﻟﺮﻕ ) to refer to people in what is now Oyo, Osun, and parts of Kwara. Originally the word Yarba, Yaruba and Yoruba and its various spellings applied exclusively to the people of Old Oyo.
The work is a fatwa legitimizing enslavement of non-Muslims in the West African sub-region in following the Maliki Madhab, while also illegitimizing the enslavement of Muslims. Ahmad Baba considered the enslavement of non-muslims as “the will of God.”. It was written for Muslim rulers of the then Songhai Empire. The work was written in 1614 and later Muhammed Bello, Usman Dan Fodio’s son and second Sultan of Sokoto, in his ‘Infaq al-Maysur’ written in 1812 copied the name from al Massufi’s book and passed it down to Hausa speakers. Hugh Clapperton(who was navigating the Niger at about the same time) reportedly also heard it from Muhammed Bello when he inquired about the people to the South.
The 'Yoruba' identifier coincided with the coming of the Islam to Oyo Empire. Before the late 19th century, the term Yoruba refers only to the Oyos, while a lot of people who speak the Edekiri continuum were recognized by dialectal affiliation e.g Egba, Ijesa, Ife, Yagba, Igbomina, Ekiti, Ijesha, Ikale, Awori, Egbado, Ohori, Ije, Idasha people etc. collectively they refer to themselves as called “karo o ji re” or Olukumi.
The use of Yoruba as the national identity was solidified by the work of the missionaries especially with the work of Henry Townsend who establish the first newspaper called ‘Iwe Iroyin fun Awon Yoruba ati Egba’ (Newspaper for the Yorubas(Oyo) and the Egbas), Samuel Ajai Crowther and others.

Ahmad Baba Al Massufi Al-Timbukti https://
www.wdl.org/ar/item/9661/view/1/1/
Farooq Kperogi The Intellectual Case Against Nigeria’s Break-Up (III) https://www.farooqkperog
i.com/…/the-intellectual-case-again…
John Hunwick 'Timbuktu and the Songhay Empire: Al-Saʿdi's Taʾrīkh Al-Sūdān Down to 1613 and other documents'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Ahmad_Baba_al_Massufi
Hunwick, J.O. (1964), "A New Source for the Biography of Ahmad Baba al-Tinbukti (1556-1627)", Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies, 27: 568–593, doi:10.1017/
s0041977x00118385, JSTOR 611391

cc: gregyboy TAO11 MinorityOpinion BabaRamota1980 LegendHero Hellraiser77 Ofoigbo Obalatule... And anyone to whom this piece of information might be important to

Bros you are in arguement with a notorious lying machine

Tao11 go and focus on the "new phase of life" Igbos opened in your life when you meddled in their thread

Stop picking on Edo guys

TAO11:
At this point, you’re clearly clutching at straws and passing-off blatant falsehoods just to save-face. Lol.

Regarding the bolded in your comment here, my actual words are in fact the direct opposite — where I noted that: Edo accounts (especially the earliest known written account) are not binding on me but are binding on the Edo person. Now you know you’re caught pants down.

Except that you still fail to understand what an historical account is and what it is not. Analysis on Vanguard, Tribune, etc. are not historical accounts — they are simply attempts at passing off opinions on an issue.

On the other hand, I have simply considered the early sources and accounts themselves — e.g. (a) I considered the fact that 1613 (Ahmed Baba’s writings) came before 1800 (the Hausa/Fulani writings) thereby dismantling the Hausa/Fulani theory.

(b) I considered the historical fact that S. Crowther’s (being a Yoruba Bishop and Linguist) pushing hard for the general adoption is significant evidence of the indigenous nature of the name.

(c) I considered the mid-1800s writings of S. Crowther (which obviously predates Vanguard and Tribune by almost two centuries) which states clearly that “Yarri.ba” and “Yaru.ba” are simply Hausa spellings/pronunciations. — see attached.

The account that the name “Benin” was originally from Oranmiyan’s initial coinage — “Ile-Ubinu” is one account, and may be the truth.

On the other hand, the account that the name “Benin” was originally from Eweka’s salve — “Ubini” is also one account which may be the truth.

In fact, this account of the name from Eweka’s slave is earlier in writing than that about Oranmiyan’s coinage. But in any case, both are extant Bini traditional accounts from early Edo sources.

Again, there is not just one account of the origin of “Benin”. While Egharevba’s account in the mid-1900s has it to be from ”Ile Ibinu”, another account (an earlier written account from the late-1800s) has it to be from “Ubini”.

So, if you must be really super consistent (as you did with my Yoruba analysis), then you should be applying gOogLe translate not to “Ubini” instead and be contented with whatever it throws back since gOoGLe translate — according to you — is the way to go for etymological analysis.

Just to add the following as an appendix here, even though its absence takes absolutely nothing away from my actual argument here which I have established already:

Oranmiyan (being a late-1100s/early-1200s Yoruba personage) could not possibly have uttered the modern Yoruba word “Ibinu” for “anger” even if this tradition from Egharevba’s account is the true one. What is more likely then is a more archaic Yoruba equivalent, viz. ”Ubinu”. Itsekiri and Ijebu rendition of “Ife” as “Ufe”, or the Ijebu (and ?Itsekiri) rendition of “Ibinu” as “Ubinu”; “Ilé” as “Ulé” and so forth for virtually every modern Yoruba noun beginning with the syllable “i”..

Stop long story...

1)Provide reference to any work that said that Oyo is the king is the progenitor of the word Yoruba

2)Tell me the person that gave the name Oyo.... U can't tell me Ahmed Baba because there is no record that he spoke Yoruba language

Ur talk abt Crowther is very invalid...let me tell u why
The word Igbo is being wrongly pronounced in some parts of Nigeria as Ibo... Using ur logic, does that mean the word Igbo is being indigenous to Igbo because of a wrong pronunciation

Hellraiser77:
Bros you are in arguement with a notorious lying machine

Tao11 go and focus on the "new phase of life" Igbos opened in your life when you meddled in their thread

Stop picking on Edo guys

Bro... I don tire already

The page she keeps insisting on only corrected a misspelling..

That guy na big clown