shadeyinka:
@Blabbermouth:

You are a secondary school teacher. You teach mathematics. You need to leave your students alone in the class while you go to the principals office for a few minutes.

You foreknow that your students will begin to make noise after you leave the class. You infact can predict the ring leaders of the noise makers.

Now, you leave the class for 5minuites and your student begin to make noise.

Will it be correct to accuse YOU of making the noise makers to make noise?

frank317:


If the teacher comes back and the students didn't make noise as he thought he foreknew, what will u make of the teacher?

If the teacher foreknew the students will make noise and he can't be wrong then the behavior of the students is dependant on what the teacher knows... But if the teacher can be wrong, then that's not foreknowledge, that's guess work and the students behaviors is dependent on their freewill

Blabbermouth:
IS GOD ACTUALLY OMNISCIENT?
Just as the case with His omnipotent ability, the omniscient ability of God is also confined by the NATURE OF WHO HE IS. God is light, He is Life, and He is Existence Himself, therefore darkness, death and nonexistence cannot be found in him.
If God were to sneak peek into the Knowledge of everything (I'm using JW's rendition here), including things that were, things that are, and the Future, there are things God will never see!
God is omniscient but He has no account of anyone that can Kill Him!
God is omniscient but He has no account for who His creator His!
God is omniscient but He has no account of the plausibility of anyone greater that him!
Hey beloved, don't get me wrong! I'm not saying God was created or God can be killed by somebody. I want you to be enlightened that God has no account of some nonsensical information like;
1. His creator
2. His Nemesis
3. His superior
Do you know why? Because THEY DON'T EXIST!
A being that created God, A being that can kill God, A being that can be superior to God DOES NOT EXIST! Consequently, God has no account of information about them.

Here is the Key Point
God has no account of things that DO NOT EXIST or Information that Does not Exist!
I've heard many dicey(or say, tricky) Atheistic Questions like
1. If God is omniscient, does He know who created Him?
2. If God is omniscient, does He know who can Kill Him?
God is omniscient but His omniscience is of EVERY EXISTING THINGS OR INFORMATION!
God's Omniscience does not stretch to Non-existent things as His nature is EXISTENCE itself!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Now Let me answer the Question; DOES GOD KNOW THE FUTURE?
Until God says "Be!", it is impossible for anything to call itself into existence. Until God says " Let there be light!", it is impossible for light to call itself into existence. For we know that God is one, and there is none like him. Until God says "Let this happen!", it is impossible for it to happen. Until God declares an End, it is impossible for an End to exist by itself
However....
God in His omniscient power (in the confines of his nature) created beings with active forces and will, yea, Angels, Humans, and other spiritual beings he created them. God gave them free will and made it such that the free will of each person gives him/her an ability to declare His End. Howbeit, God is the prime Declarer.
Like they say - "Man proposes, God disposes"
Specifically, there are just 2 being capable of declaring your end. Yea, just two being that can determine your future; 1. God 2. You
For we know who God is, and what we know is true, therein lies our confidence that God (in most cases) does not/will not declare your end.
Since God has not/does not/ will not declare your future, YOUR FUTURE DOES NOT EXIST!
Now, you might be quick to ask this question;
Since I declare my END myself, can't God know where I will choose for myself before I choose?
Answer: Until you CHOOSE, where you will END is undefined. Before you chose, your end doesn't exist and like we've illustrated, God (whether by foreknowledge or absolute omniscience) have no account of Non-existent things.
Maximus69 was right when he said "God does not know If I will repent or not". However, I want him to enlighten him a notch that God does not know because " my end does not exist until I choose"
Remember, God has no account of nonexistent things. Yea, God has no account of where you will end up. Why? It does not exist!

shadeyinka:


Do you mean that God has Foreordained some people to be evil?

Blabbermouth:
IS GOD ACTUALLY OMNISCIENT?
......
Specifically, there are just 2 being capable of declaring your end. Yea, just two being that can determine your future; 1. God 2. You
For we know who God is, and what we know is true, therein lies our confidence that God (in most cases) does not/will not declare your end.
Since God has not/does not/ will not declare your future, YOUR FUTURE DOES NOT EXIST!
Now, you might be quick to ask this question;
Since I declare my END myself, can't God know where I will choose for myself before I choose?
Answer: Until you CHOOSE, where you will END is undefined. Before you chose, your end doesn't exist and like we've illustrated, God (whether by foreknowledge or absolute omniscience) have no account of Non-existent things.
Maximus69 was right when he said "God does not know If I will repent or not". However, I want him to enlighten him a notch that God does not know because " my end does not exist until I choose"
Remember, God has no account of nonexistent things. Yea, God has no account of where you will end up. Why? It does not exist!

Blabbermouth:

No! Do read my account on God's omniscient ability and see the missing piece.

shadeyinka:

Please state your position clearly.

What you've simply said all along was that God's omniscience stems from the fact that he predestines things to be (hence He knows).

My position is that God's omniscience is a function of His FOREKNOWLEDGE with is independent of PREDESTINATION.

Blabbermouth:

Read from page 8 of the thread, I've explained everything.
ShadeYinka sir, there is nothing like "Future" aside what God has declared!

shadeyinka:

Unfortunately, you are not following the rules you created. Did you acknowledge any explanation on the Foreknowledge of God?
Any question that will clarify you ignored. No!, That's not how it is done

Blabbermouth:

Anyone that understands it perfectly will automatically see the answer to bugging questions like these:
1. Why Did God create Lucifer knowing He will fall?
2. Why Did God put Adam and eve in Eden foreknowing that they will disobey?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Let me help out a bit...
According to the Bible, God created Lucifer "perfect". According to God's definition of perfection, perfection is not subjected to a time frame. If God said Lucifer was perfect, then that means He didn't create Lucifer foreknowing that Lucifer will fall. No! God didn't declare that! A non-existent Lucifer did not declare a fall for himself!
That " Lucifer will fall" was a nonexistent account, there is no future! Lucifer himself declared his fall, gave sin a definition, and invented the domain of death when he said "I will"...
God did not create Lucifer foreknowing he will fall!
You should be able to answer Adam's own, it's much simpler.
(ShadeYinka, MuttleyLaff, Maximus69)

Blabbermouth:

Sir, you are using "foreknowledge" because you think some "script-like Future" Exist... No sir, it doesn't!
To accomodate you though, take this as my stance...
Whatever God foreknows, He has declared
Whatever Does not exist, God does not foreknow.
A script-like future does not exist, God has no account or foreknowledge whatsoever about it.
Let me pan out that whenever we say God is not constrained by time, it doesn't mean He can forward or Backward, no! Time is not linear! Time is not a loop! In God's reality, everything is NOW! No later, no tomorrow, no, no, no! Time is a point!
99.95% of believers believe in some "Future" yet no single person lives as if some kind of future exist somewhere, yea, even God!

Blabbermouth:

No! Do read my account on God's omniscient ability and see the missing piece.

Blabbermouth:

This is the light of the matter:
There is nothing like "Future"! It doesn't exist!
The only events that are certain to happen are those that have been declared, predetermined and Orchestrated by God, any other thing else you term with the word "future" are virtual and not real.
ShadeYinka sir, God does not predetermine anyone one for hell. Also, Your end is undefined and nonexistent until you CHOOSE! That is the principal reason why you are living, why you were created, and why you have a lifespan on earth.
God is asking you - "Are you in or are you out? Choose!"
MuttleyLaff, this might be hard to understand but trust me, with time you will come to settle with it. If you mean God has an absolute foreknowledge of things He himself determined, then you are 100% right. If you mean God's absolute foreknowledge covers nonexistent things like "where you will end up", then that's wrong.
Maximus69 and DappaD, fortunately Jehovah doesn't use selective foreknowledge. He knows everything that exist and every minute info in the world. However, He has no account of " where you will end up " because that will only be made existent when you CHOOSE!
ShadeYinka, a time travel nonsense is impossible! You will only be able to time travel into what God has declared to happen, and we both know Jehovah will not subject that privilege to physical means.

shadeyinka:

1. God created Lucifer knowing that he would fall: But He went ahead knowing that the end result will produce "sons of God"! However, Lucifer's fall will be of his own choice and volition
Ezek 28:15:
"You were perfect in your ways from the day that you were created, till iniquity was found in you."

That is why even for the believers
Rom 8:28:
"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."

2. God planted the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden knowing that Adam and Eve will take of it and it will result in sin, death and evil in the world because God also know that within the chaos will emerge "sons of God" who with their free will and volition will love God and His Lordship and so will qualify for Adoption.

Otherwise, according to what you have believed
1. Either God made a mistake to create Lucifer:
Unfortunately, wisdom require that God exterminate Lucifer and not allow such evil to SPREAD

OR
God created Lucifer to be perfectly obedient to God for both good and evil and by DESIGN, Lucifer is just fulfilling the will of God.
Unfortunately, this will make God evil for judging Lucifer in the Lake of Fire (after doing Gods will)

Now, please answer this:
The sons of God saw the daughters of men as beautiful and married them to produce giants called Nephillims.
Gen 6:2:
"That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."

Did God Foreordained this?

shadeyinka:

If you had not fixed God with the limitations of men, you would not have this problem.
Your train of thought make God both the Origin of EVIL and the JUDGE. But God is JUST!

If God can be Omnipresent (fully present everywhere in space) how come it is impossible for God to be Omnipresent in time?

Blabbermouth:

ShadeYinka, the scripture says "God who speaks to things that are yet not as though they are"... Even if Christ was crucified thousands of years later, to God Christ was slain before the foundation of the world. To God, He already has sons and children birthed through Christ since the foundation of the world. When God said to Abraham, " I will bless you" that's God coming down to Abraham's level to make him grasp. In God's reality, Abraham has already been blessed by Him.
God says I am the Beginning and the Ending - yea, the beginning of a point is the point and the ending of a point is the same point.
Sir, please try to understand that God does not see time as a line or as a loop, time is a point.
Even in our realm, time is a point! You can't recover the past, it's nothing but a memory now and you can't access the future, it doesn't exist yet!
Only then will you know that "foreknowledge " is just humans using English to shadow box.
Only then will you be able to understand that truth that was unravelled.

shadeyinka:

Sorry. State your point here if it is valid. Don't forget that you refused to answer some of my questions that you may continue in your...

Blabbermouth:

Seriously?!... My explanation was consistent with God being Just. My explanation was consistent with God being who he is. Damn! You are reading with bias.

Blabbermouth:

Seriously?!... My explanation was consistent with God being Just. My explanation was consistent with God being who he is. Damn! You are reading with bias.

shadeyinka:

Time isn't a POINT. Time is the measure of interval between two events.
You are doing your best to equate Foreknowledge with Predestination BUT they are different things.

The Future isn't static nor cast in stone. The future is dynamic and depends entirely of what we have DONE and what we are DOING now!
God knows the future because he is omnipresent even in TIME.

shadeyinka:

No sir it isn't.

If God designed Satan to end up being evil, is it just for God to judge Satan in Hell?

Blabbermouth:

There is nothing like "Fore - anything"... God's knowledge is " absolute knowledge" not "foreknowledge".

Blabbermouth:

"The future isn't static nor cast in stone" - that's exactly what I proved.
It's your train of thought that paints the future as rigid, unchangeable and foredetermined.

shadeyinka:

Time isn't a POINT. Time is the measure of interval between two events.
You are doing your best to equate Foreknowledge with Predestination BUT they are different things.

The Future isn't static nor cast in stone. The future is dynamic and depends entirely of what we have DONE and what we are DOING now!
God knows the future because he is omnipresent even in TIME.

shadeyinka:

As if what we have said is that God's knowledge is NOT absolute but a mere Foreknowledge.

Gods knowledge is absolute simply means that He knows the past, present and future. Why?
God is omnipresent even in Time!

Blabbermouth:

My explanation was sufficient and it covers every possible question you can ask. However, please resend them let's level it.

shadeyinka:

Let me put the answer in a question form.

Let's assume you own a time machine and you can be present and see anything up to 20 years in the future.

Will you be able to describe the president of Nigeria come 2023 and even the one that will take over in 2028?
Will you be able to say if the new President in 2023 will have a baby girl (with his new wife), the name of the baby and if the baby will drown (but rescued in the nick of time) in the Aso villa swimming pool at the age of three?

Can it then be said that you know the future of the yet to be formed foetus of the yet to be president and his yet to be married wife?

IS GOD ACTUALLY OMNISCIENT?

Just as the case with His omnipotent ability, the omniscient ability of God is also confined by the NATURE OF WHO HE IS. God is light, He is Life, and He is Existence Himself, therefore darkness, death and nonexistence cannot be found in him.

If God were to sneak peek into the Knowledge of everything (I'm using JW's rendition here), including things that were, things that are, and the Future, there are things God will never see!

God is omniscient but He has no account of anyone that can Kill Him!

God is omniscient but He has no account for who His creator His!

God is omniscient but He has no account of the plausibility of anyone greater that him!

Hey beloved, don't get me wrong! I'm not saying God was created or God can be killed by somebody. I want you to be enlightened that God has no account of some nonsensical information like;

1. His creator

2. His Nemesis

3. His superior

Do you know why? Because THEY DON'T EXIST!

A being that created God, A being that can kill God, A being that can be superior to God DOES NOT EXIST! Consequently, God has no account of information about them.



Here is the Key Point

God has no account of things that DO NOT EXIST or Information that Does not Exist!

I've heard many dicey(or say, tricky) Atheistic Questions like

1. If God is omniscient, does He know who created Him?

2. If God is omniscient, does He know who can Kill Him?

God is omniscient but His omniscience is of EVERY EXISTING THINGS OR INFORMATION!

God's Omniscience does not stretch to Non-existent things as His nature is EXISTENCE itself!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Now Let me answer the Question; DOES GOD KNOW THE FUTURE?

Until God says "Be!", it is impossible for anything to call itself into existence. Until God says " Let there be light!", it is impossible for light to call itself into existence. For we know that God is one, and there is none like him. Until God says "Let this happen!", it is impossible for it to happen. Until God declares an End, it is impossible for an End to exist by itself

However....

God in His omniscient power (in the confines of his nature) created beings with active forces and will, yea, Angels, Humans, and other spiritual beings he created them. God gave them free will and made it such that the free will of each person gives him/her an ability to declare His End. Howbeit, God is the prime Declarer.

Like they say - "Man proposes, God disposes"

Specifically, there are just 2 being capable of declaring your end. Yea, just two being that can determine your future; 1. God 2. You

For we know who God is, and what we know is true, therein lies our confidence that God (in most cases) does not/will not declare your end.

Since God has not/does not/ will not declare your future, YOUR FUTURE DOES NOT EXIST!

Now, you might be quick to ask this question;

Since I declare my END myself, can't God know where I will choose for myself before I choose?

Answer: Until you CHOOSE, where you will END is undefined. Before you chose, your end doesn't exist and like we've illustrated, God (whether by foreknowledge or absolute omniscience) have no account of Non-existent things.

Maximus69 was right when he said "God does not know If I will repent or not". However, I want him to enlighten him a notch that God does not know because " my end does not exist until I choose"

Remember, God has no account of nonexistent things. Yea, God has no account of where you will end up. Why? It does not exist!

shadeyinka:

If you had truthfully answered this post of mine, well not be going round in a circle

Blabbermouth:

You see, I knew you did not understand my write up. God knowing the past is not foreknowledge, God knowing the present is not foreknowledge, God knowing the future IS foreknowledge. Then I used Isaiah 46:10 and WHO GOD IS to prove that there is nothing like "future"! Since there is no future, there is no foreknowledge.

shadeyinka:

As if what we have said is that God's knowledge is NOT absolute but a mere Foreknowledge.

Gods knowledge is absolute simply means that He knows the past, present and future. Why?
God is omnipresent even in Time!


See how you misrepresents points.
I just repeated again that the future is not cast in stone (compare the highlights and recast) .

You can't pre-determine what you THINK I am saying then make your judgements on that error. No sir!

Blabbermouth:
IS GOD ACTUALLY OMNISCIENT?
Just as the case with His omnipotent ability, the omniscient ability of God is also confined by the NATURE OF WHO HE IS. God is light, He is Life, and He is Existence Himself, therefore darkness, death and nonexistence cannot be found in him.
If God were to sneak peek into the Knowledge of everything (I'm using JW's rendition here), including things that were, things that are, and the Future, there are things God will never see!
God is omniscient but He has no account of anyone that can Kill Him!
God is omniscient but He has no account for who His creator His!
God is omniscient but He has no account of the plausibility of anyone greater that him!
Hey beloved, don't get me wrong! I'm not saying God was created or God can be killed by somebody. I want you to be enlightened that God has no account of some nonsensical information like;
1. His creator
2. His Nemesis
3. His superior
Do you know why? Because THEY DON'T EXIST!
A being that created God, A being that can kill God, A being that can be superior to God DOES NOT EXIST! Consequently, God has no account of information about them.

Here is the Key Point
God has no account of things that DO NOT EXIST or Information that Does not Exist!
I've heard many dicey(or say, tricky) Atheistic Questions like
1. If God is omniscient, does He know who created Him?
2. If God is omniscient, does He know who can Kill Him?
God is omniscient but His omniscience is of EVERY EXISTING THINGS OR INFORMATION!
God's Omniscience does not stretch to Non-existent things as His nature is EXISTENCE itself!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Now Let me answer the Question; DOES GOD KNOW THE FUTURE?
Until God says "Be!", it is impossible for anything to call itself into existence. Until God says " Let there be light!", it is impossible for light to call itself into existence. For we know that God is one, and there is none like him. Until God says "Let this happen!", it is impossible for it to happen. Until God declares an End, it is impossible for an End to exist by itself
However....
God in His omniscient power (in the confines of his nature) created beings with active forces and will, yea, Angels, Humans, and other spiritual beings he created them. God gave them free will and made it such that the free will of each person gives him/her an ability to declare His End. Howbeit, God is the prime Declarer.
Like they say - "Man proposes, God disposes"
Specifically, there are just 2 being capable of declaring your end. Yea, just two being that can determine your future; 1. God 2. You
For we know who God is, and what we know is true, therein lies our confidence that God (in most cases) does not/will not declare your end.
Since God has not/does not/ will not declare your future, YOUR FUTURE DOES NOT EXIST!
Now, you might be quick to ask this question;
Since I declare my END myself, can't God know where I will choose for myself before I choose?
Answer: Until you CHOOSE, where you will END is undefined. Before you chose, your end doesn't exist and like we've illustrated, God (whether by foreknowledge or absolute omniscience) have no account of Non-existent things.

Maximus\69 was right when he said "God does not know If I will repent or not". However, I want him to enlighten him a notch that God does not know because " my end does not exist until I choose"
Remember, God has no account of nonexistent things. Yea, God has no account of where you will end up. Why? It does not exist!

(shade\yinka, Muttley\Laff, Maximus\69)

shadeyinka:

Can you see that it is you who is prone to misunderstanding simple English.


Compare the two highlights. I said Gods knowledge your bias read is as Gods Foreknowledge!

MuttleyLaff:
Blabbermouth did God know before hand that Pharaoh will or will not make choice(s) not to let the Israelites free to go worship Him, hmm?