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Does God Really Know The Future? - Religion (10) - Nairaland

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Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by Nobody: 12:20pm On Aug 24, 2020
Blabbermouth:
Maximus69, I read your answers. Please do Justice to my question 3.

One who could say "I am the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End" Revelations 22:13

Well it's certain that he knows his own future before he can confidently promise others of a bright future, please meditate on this words "Look! I am making all things New... Write this down for this words are Faithful and True" Revelations 21:5

Please do you think this person knows his own future? smiley
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by Blabbermouth: 12:26pm On Aug 24, 2020
Maximus69:


One who could say "I am the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End" Revelations 22:13

Well it's certain that he knows his own future before he can confidently promise others of a bright future, please meditate on this words "Look! I am making all things New... Write this down for this words are Faithful and True" Revelations 21:5

Please do you think this person knows his own future? smiley
Sweet! Who wrote God's future?
What I'm saying is - Did God look into his own future and he realized that he will at one point create angels and men.
If so, who ordained it that "God should/will create angels and men"?
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by jesusjnr2020(m): 12:45pm On Aug 24, 2020
Blabbermouth:
IS GOD ACTUALLY OMNISCIENT?
Just as the case with His omnipotent ability, the omniscient ability of God is also confined by the NATURE OF WHO HE IS. God is light, He is Life, and He is Existence Himself, therefore darkness, death and nonexistence cannot be found in him.
If God were to sneak peek into the Knowledge of everything (I'm using JW's rendition here), including things that were, things that are, and the Future, there are things God will never see!
God is omniscient but He has no account of anyone that can Kill Him!
God is omniscient but He has no account for who His creator His!
God is omniscient but He has no account of the plausibility of anyone greater that him!
Hey beloved, don't get me wrong! I'm not saying God was created or God can be killed by somebody. I want you to be enlightened that God has no account of some nonsensical information like;
1. His creator
2. His Nemesis
3. His superior
Do you know why? Because THEY DON'T EXIST!
A being that created God, A being that can kill God, A being that can be superior to God DOES NOT EXIST! Consequently, God has no account of information about them.

Here is the Key Point
God has no account of things that DO NOT EXIST or Information that Does not Exist!
I've heard many dicey(or say, tricky) Atheistic Questions like
1. If God is omniscient, does He know who created Him?
2. If God is omniscient, does He know who can Kill Him?
God is omniscient but His omniscience is of EVERY EXISTING THINGS OR INFORMATION!
God's Omniscience does not stretch to Non-existent things as His nature is EXISTENCE itself!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Now Let me answer the Question; DOES GOD KNOW THE FUTURE?
Until God says "Be!", it is impossible for anything to call itself into existence. Until God says " Let there be light!", it is impossible for light to call itself into existence. For we know that God is one, and there is none like him. Until God says "Let this happen!", it is impossible for it to happen. Until God declares an End, it is impossible for an End to exist by itself
However....
God in His omniscient power (in the confines of his nature) created beings with active forces and will, yea, Angels, Humans, and other spiritual beings he created them. God gave them free will and made it such that the free will of each person gives him/her an ability to declare His End. Howbeit, God is the prime Declarer.
Like they say - "Man proposes, God disposes"
Specifically, there are just 2 being capable of declaring your end. Yea, just two being that can determine your future; 1. God 2. You
For we know who God is, and what we know is true, therein lies our confidence that God (in most cases) does not/will not declare your end.
Since God has not/does not/ will not declare your future, YOUR FUTURE DOES NOT EXIST!
Now, you might be quick to ask this question;
Since I declare my END myself, can't God know where I will choose for myself before I choose?
Answer: Until you CHOOSE, where you will END is undefined. Before you chose, your end doesn't exist and like we've illustrated, God (whether by foreknowledge or absolute omniscience) have no account of Non-existent things.
Maximus69 was right when he said "God does not know If I will repent or not". However, I want him to enlighten him a notch that God does not know because " my end does not exist until I choose"
Remember, God has no account of nonexistent things. Yea, God has no account of where you will end up. Why? It does not exist!

(ShadeYinka, MuttleyLaff, Maximus69)
Nice one bro. You killed it!
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by jesusjnr2020(m): 12:47pm On Aug 24, 2020
Blabbermouth:

This is the light of the matter:
There is nothing like "Future"! It doesn't exist!
The only events that are certain to happen are those that have been declared, predetermined and Orchestrated by God, any other thing else you term with the word "future" are virtual and not real.
ShadeYinka sir, God does not predetermine anyone one for hell. Also, Your end is undefined and nonexistent until you CHOOSE! That is the principal reason why you are living, why you were created, and why you have a lifespan on earth.
God is asking you - "Are you in or are you out? Choose!"
MuttleyLaff, this might be hard to understand but trust me, with time you will come to settle with it. If you mean God has an absolute foreknowledge of things He himself determined, then you are 100% right. If you mean God's absolute foreknowledge covers nonexistent things like "where you will end up", then that's wrong.
Maximus69 and DappaD, fortunately Jehovah doesn't use selective foreknowledge. He knows everything that exist and every minute info in the world. However, He has no account of " where you will end up " because that will only be made existent when you CHOOSE!
ShadeYinka, a time travel nonsense is impossible! You will only be able to time travel into what God has declared to happen, and we both know Jehovah will not subject that privilege to physical means.
Many likes. You're overkilling it!
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by jesusjnr2020(m): 12:50pm On Aug 24, 2020
Blabbermouth:

Anyone that understands it perfectly will automatically see the answer to bugging questions like these:
1. Why Did God create Lucifer knowing He will fall?
2. Why Did God put Adam and eve in Eden foreknowing that they will disobey?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Let me help out a bit...
According to the Bible, God created Lucifer "perfect". According to God's definition of perfection, perfection is not subjected to a time frame. If God said Lucifer was perfect, then that means He didn't create Lucifer foreknowing that Lucifer will fall. No! God didn't declare that! A non-existent Lucifer did not declare a fall for himself!
That " Lucifer will fall" was a nonexistent account, there is no future! Lucifer himself declared his fall, gave sin a definition, and invented the domain of death when he said "I will"...
God did not create Lucifer foreknowing he will fall!
You should be able to answer Adam's own, it's much simpler.
(ShadeYinka, MuttleyLaff, Maximus69)
Hmmm... Makes sense.
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by Nobody: 1:03pm On Aug 24, 2020
Blabbermouth:

Sweet! Who wrote God's future?
What I'm saying is - Did God look into his own future and he realized that he will at one point create angels and men.
If so, who ordained it that "God should/will create angels and men"?

The title "GOD ALMIGHTY" should explain that! smiley

Remember the book said he created man in his own image {Genesis 1:26} but man never knew what he could invent from the beginning otherwise mankind could have been enjoying all what Science is discovering today!
So let's go back into the book, it says in the first day God created the light and the light he separated from darkness {Genesis 1:3-5} the book made us to understand that God was not alone during this period, he had his first born Son (creature) beside him {Proverbs 8:22-30 compare to John 1:1} and the book made us to understand that when God say one day, it is equivalent of one thousand years of our own {2Peter 3:8} so don't think he was just creating everything without check and balancing {Genesis 1:4} the only difference between him and us is he's immortal while we are mortals, as for what he will do next he plans ahead and meditate thoroughly even consulting his close friends before doing it! Genesis 18:20-33; Exodus 32:7-14 smiley

1 Like

Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by DrLiveLogic(m): 1:54pm On Aug 24, 2020
MuttleyLaff, the questions you answered were for Blabbermouth actually to defend his position plus I had outlined them later.
Blabbermouth:
Take this mentality away! You will be limited by your ignorance if you continue like this
My ignorance? Continue like how?
Are you so lost in your bubble of 'know-all', you can't even take the time to understand this simple statement?
Again, knowledge is so vast doesn't mean it shouldn't be investigated or that we stay in ignorance. It only means we have to limit it to contexts when discussing else we speak ad infinitum without beginning or ending or a focus in sight. LMAO!
Cc: MuttleyLaff

Blabbermouth:
This question and the other ones you asked are a consequence of your stance on this matter and not mine. This is an attempt of using this medium to help you solve the bugging questions you have always had in your heart. Nevertheless, I will oblige you.
Again, bugging questions in my heart? Watch it man! You've come off repeatedly all over your thread as one who thinks he's come here to educate everyone else from some deeper and higher realm none ever approached. In the realm of knowledge, we all are learners. Whatever you think you know, there are thousands out there you may never meet who know much more. Humility is an accomplice of true knowledge.


Blabbermouth:
2/ From QST 1 and 2, are you saying that God is evil and dark? Godforbid! Or else, you've just crossed the line. Evil is not the opposite of Good, no! It is what you get when Goodness is absent. Darkness is not the opposite of light, it is what you get when light is absent. This is why you cannot make a room"darker"..God said A&E will die the very same day they eat of the fruit, didthey die (physically)? No! Is God lying? No! To die is to be separated from the source of life (I.e God)...it begs the question.
And you finally avoided my questions. Huh! Wonder why you and MuttleyLaff so stuck up on the no-brainer: "darkness is the absence of light" that any kindergartener can tell that you totally missed my question. LMAO!
Now if you'd gladly answer my question:
2/ What does God mean by knowing good and evil since in your thesis, God knows only light, life and good and nothing not found in his nature? Please don't be evasive this time or try explaining what needn't be. While at it, you may need try going back to my #1 question you evaded.

3/ after you choose, does God then know your end?
Blabbermouth:
Hahaha....
...haha! But you 'forgot' to answer the question too. LMAO!
Now please tell us unequivocally:
3/ after a sinner makes a wrong choice or set of choices, does God then know what reality they've created and does he then their end?

4/ If God then knows the current state of the sinner after choices are made and even their end which he didn't have originally in his foreknowledge, has he then updated his knowledge and become more than what he initially was or are you saying he is blind to what is happening in the sinner's lives?
Blabbermouth:
That's the problem when humans start seeing God as a person.

You being evasive again. It's wise to always know when to say "I think I missed a spot" or "need to think about it". You can or else try again to answer the question with simple yes or no.

Blabbermouth:
No! The foetus case is not unreasonable. You will have an issue with it if you think a future, aside from what God has declared exist. You can help him answer the question I asked him though. Also, I did not misrepresent his view. He was trying not to cross the line from outside the line, more like eating your cake and having it back
You sir seem the only one here getting it mixed up and trying so hard to force him outside your imaginary line. MuttleyLaff, shadeyinka and I get it clearly because it's straightforward as a speed-train. BTW, all foetuses are heaven-bound until the age of accountability to choose sin and alter that - Paul's meaning in Romans 7:9

Blabbermouth:
God in three persons" -is that what Trinity is?

3 persons? What you were told but the Triuneness of YHWH (Father, Word and Spirit) though is one Being.

Blabbermouth:
Sir, I want you to do something for me - With the old testament alone, show that Jesus was Divinity become humanity"...
Smh. Start here , go through #1- #6 and if you can refute all, then let's go for the jugular or else admit that YHWH (Word and Father) is one Being.

Blabbermouth:
I'm not permitted to say many things for now, but I do implore you to do that task I ask you. Trust me, your revelation of who Christ is will increase in many folds.
Nah! Can't trust you now. You seem to be up to something fishy about trying to refute the Divinity of Christ and we haven't even cleaned up some of the mess you've made with this subject yet. If you ask me, I'd say some things are safer "not permitted to be said". LMAO!

5/ how God predicts the future of both the good and the evil, like Jacob and Esau etc., before they even make their choices
Blabbermouth:
Bible verse please...
5/ Try Romans 9:11-16 for starters.

6/ whose names are not in the book of life and why then God created these people.
Blabbermouth:
It's the problem of those thinking God needs to press a forward button. However, check my response to Muttley, I answered this already.
Your answer to him is just you being all over the place except where needed. So,
6/ who are those not found in the book of life? and did God have a purpose for them when they came to earth?

7/ and how they could create a reality that didn't exist in God. Is the end then different from the beginning?
Blabbermouth:
I don't understand this question.
7a/ These sinners create realities outside of God, we see this all around as existent. But according to you these realities if outside God's, are non-existent. Explain this clearly.
7b/ If these realities they created exist as we see them all around, then is the end different from the beginning?

8/ What is meant in Isaiah 45:7, how God forms light and creates darkness and good and evil. Your thesis so far seems like you've bitten off quite a bit more than can chew. This subject is much deeper than you've presented. The reason I said many prerequisites must be settled before this.
Blabbermouth:
Again, are you saying that there is darkness in God?
Why bother about my opinion? You claim to be the one in the know, remember?
8/ You said God has no evil/darkness in him and only forthtells what is consistent with his nature. So justify it with Isaiah 45:7 is all I'm saying.

9/ As for his case with Isaiah 46:10, he ended up just replacing God's forthtelling with foreknowledge which are two distinct attributes of God and he does both. Forthtelling is how he brings his foreknowledge to play in this movie.
Blabbermouth:
No! That was what Shade and Muttley did, not me. I said Isaiah 46:10 was forthtelling the end... Nowhere did I call it foretelling! Why is everyone throwing their own flaws on me?
Why getting unnerved? Plus everyone's got flaws huh? To throw at you but no flaw of your own, huh? Smh. Well, I didn't say you called it foretelling.
I'm saying you've used God's forthtelling here to strike out his foreknowledge, saying he doesn't know but only decrees, when in reality these two attributes are distinct and coexistent. Isn't that what you did?
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by Blabbermouth: 2:16pm On Aug 24, 2020
DrLiveLogic:
MuttleyLaff, the questions were for Blabbermouth actually to defend his position plus I had outlined them later.
Please ask me directly.

My ignorance? Continue like how?
Are you so lost in your bubble of 'know-all', you can't even take the time to understand this simple statement?
Again, knowledge is so vast doesn't mean it shouldn't be investigated or that we stay in ignorance. It only means we have to limit it to contexts when discussing else we speak ad infinitum without beginning or ending or a focus in sight. LMAO!
Alright sir, you are right.

Again, bugging questions in my heart? Watch it man! You've come off repeatedly all over your thread as one who thinks he's come here to educate everyone else from some deeper and higher realm none ever approached. In the realm of knowledge, we all are learners. Whatever you think you know, there are thousands out there you may never meet who know much more. Humility is an accomplice of true knowledge.
If this is how I come off, I'm so sorry sir. It's just that the questions being asked are from a stand point of an existing future. Whereas, the questions should be from "If there is no future, why is? What is?". How do you expect me to answer those questions by assuming a future exist when I myself do not believe in it's existence.

And you finally avoided my questions. Huh! Wonder why you and MuttleyLaff so stuck up on the no-brainer: "darkness is the absence of light" that any kindergartener can tell that you totally missed my question. LMAO!
Now if you'd gladly answer my question: What does God mean by knowing good and evil since in your thesis, God knows only light, life and good and nothing not found in his nature? Please don't be evasive this time or try explaining what needn't be. While at it, you may need try going back to my #1 question you evaded.
...haha! But you 'forgot' to answer the question too. LMAO!
Now please tell us unequivocally: after a sinner makes a wrong choice or set of choices, does God then know what reality they've created and does he then their end?
You being evasive again. It's wise to always know when to say "I think I missed a spot" or "need to think about it". You can or else try again to answer the question with simple yes or no.
You for 1, did not ask me directly. Ask them again sir in an orderly manner, please remember to consider my stance and not come from yours.

BTW, all foetuses are heaven-bound until the age of accountability to choose sin and alter that - Paul's meaning in Romans 7:9
Nothing, not even a foetus is heavenly-bound without Christ. This is our confidence in who Christ is.

3 persons? What you were told but the Triuneness of YHWH (Father, Word and Spirit) though is one Being.
I don't think you know my stance on the Trinity matter. I've read everything you posted on that link... However, i don't want to drag this here, I did create a challenge thread recently, we will settle there. Also, I am in no way refutting the divinity of Christ.

Why bother about my opinion? You claim to be the one in the know, remember?
God forbid!

8/ You said God has no evil/darkness in him and only forthtells what is consistent with his nature. So justify it with Isaiah 45:7 is all I'm saying.
I didn't say this.

Why getting unnerved? Plus everyone's got flaws huh? To throw at you but no flaw of your own, huh? Smh. Well, I didn't say you called it foretelling.
I'm saying you've used God's forthtelling here to strike out his foreknowledge, saying he doesn't know but only decrees, when in reality these two attributes are distinct and coexistent. Isn't that what you did?
Again, you Sir, are coming from the standpoint of an existent future and using that same view to question me who believed in no future.
"Foretelling" is for those that believe in future.
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by shadeyinka(m): 3:21pm On Aug 24, 2020
Blabbermouth:
MuttleyLaff, ShadeYinka, DrLiveLogic, Maximus69 and everyone following, I have 2 questions for you;
1. At what point is one's name written in the book of life?
2. Under what conditions and at what point can one's name be blotted out from the book of life?
Modified:
3. God sees the future of everything, wow! Can God see his own future? Or does God not have a future?

1. At what point is one's name written in the book of life?
Before the world was created as a function of Gods foreknowledge based on the LIFETIME salvation/born again experience
Phil4:3
show that a believers name is in the book of life even DURING his lifetime (not after he has died)
Rom 8:29-30
show that Gods foreknowledge (past tense) resulted in a predestination (past tense) to be conformed to the image of Christ. These same people are called and justified
Eph1:4
God had chosen us in Christ even before the foundation of the world
Rev17:8
the believers names have been written from the foundation of the world

Finally,
Heb6:4 says that it is impossible for a believer who gets his name blotted out to be renewed again to repentance.

2. Under what conditions and at what point can one's name be blotted out from the book of life?
Impossible! Ones name cannot be written in error (for God sees the end from the beginning).
Matt24:24
If it was possible the elect would be deceived out of salvation. However, an elect may be deceived concerning doctrinal matters and other things which does not affect his salvation.

Who is he who overcomes in Rev3:5 ?
According to 1John4:4-5 the one who has Christ in him. Anyone who is Born of God has overcome the world!

He who does not overcome is NOT of God

3. God sees the future of everything, wow! Can God see his own future? Or does God not have a future?
God is the I AM that I AM.
Mal3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not;...

The Past, Present and Future is the same to God. He is Omnipresent in TIME and He cannot change. Thus God cannot have a future outside being God. Only Gods creatures can have a future.
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by shadeyinka(m): 3:22pm On Aug 24, 2020
Blabbermouth:

JW: God CANNOT SEE SOME PART OF THE FUTURE
This is the weakest of all views but then, I understand where they are coming from. The only similarity with my view and JW's view is that - we do not/did not cross the line.
According to witnesses, they picture God as a being with a search engine like google. So God just type " Shadeyinka's future " and His divine Google will bring it out, howbeit filtering the evil parts of it. C'mon we both know how flawed this is.
Just like you, they also are missing the most important piece, and that is "There is no future aside what God has declared and permitted to happen"... The moment the JW's plug this into their view, it becomes perfect and consistent with God's word. The Moment you also plug this into your view, it becomes perfect and consistent with God's word.
Now, look at that part where you yourself said "Why did he HAVE HIS LAMB slain? .. Can you now see that it was God declaring this himself so that You all can be saved?
The highlight is actually whrer your major error is.
Yes, God does declare His will or the future and this is more like Predestination
HOWEVER
Freewill imply that God allows his creatures to independently make decisions and choices. God permits this!
The consequence of Freewill is that a MAN is permitted to make his choice even to go against God's will BUT God will not declare that "this MAN" will go against His will. If God makes such a declaration, then man is bound to go against Gods Will no matter what he does.
This makes this mans sinful life a declaration that God Himself had made and thus this man is just doing what God had declared that he should do.

Should this man go to hell for doing Gods biddings?
Is this judgement a Righteous judgement?

Blabbermouth:

"Foreseen was used simultaneously with predestined"... Someone, I think linearity showed you this to prove that both work hand in hand. Like the bible said God who speaks to things that are yet not, AS THOUGH THEY ARE While humans saw Christ slain 2000+ years ago, In God's reality He has been slained already the moment he declared it. God can't pretend it, His realm and His reality is NOW! Many times, when relating with humans, He does speak to accommodate your realm.

You will never hear it in any theology school that there is no future. It's from an human view that we think a future exist. I'm trying to help you see things more from a spirit standpoint.
God vulnerable?!
The prophet under the unction of the holy spirit said concerning Satan "For you have said in your heart"... Is there anyone that God sees not his heart? How then shall anyone be able to overthrow Him?

I do not expect you to settle with the truth immediately. It might take days, weeks or month, but one day during your WORD STUDY session, you will see the truth yourself, I trust the holy spirit.
The word Foreseen was not used simultaneously. It was used as a precursor to Predestination.
Those God foreknew, He predestined. What happens to those God did not foreknow?


The context of the statement "God who speaks to things that are yet not, AS THOUGH THEY ARE" is in the context of FAITH, CREATION and PREDESTINATION according to the nature and character of God (For Abraham).

Note that Declaration and Predestination are one and the same
If God Predestined/Declared EVERYTHING, then FREEWILL does NOT exist.
If God Predestined/Declared EVERYTHING, then SIN does not exist.
If God Predestined/Declared EVERYTHING, then Judgment is Wickedness and God is NOT Just.


If God Predestined/Declared EVERYTHING, then GOD is also the Author of EVIL and UNRIGHTEOUSNESS in the world!


Is your position still that God has Predestined/Declared EVERYTHING?
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by Blabbermouth: 3:35pm On Aug 24, 2020
shadeyinka:

The highlight is actually whrer your major error is.
Yes, God does declare His will or the future and this is more like Predestination
HOWEVER
Freewill imply that God allows his creatures to independently make decisions and choices. God permits this!
The consequence of Freewill is that a MAN is permitted to make his choice even to go against God's will BUT God will not declare that "this MAN" will go against His will. If God makes such a declaration, then man is bound to go against Gods Will no matter what he does.
This makes this mans sinful life a declaration that God Himself had made and thus this man is just doing what God had declared that he should do.

Should this man go to hell for doing Gods biddings?
Is this judgement a Righteous judgement?


The word Foreseen was not used simultaneously. It was used as a precursor to Predestination.
Those God foreknew, He predestined. What happens to those God did not foreknow?


The context of the statement "God who speaks to things that are yet not, AS THOUGH THEY ARE" is in the context of FAITH, CREATION and PREDESTINATION according to the nature and character of God (For Abraham).

Note that Declaration and Predestination are one and the same
If God Predestined/Declared EVERYTHING, then FREEWILL does NOT exist.
If God Predestined/Declared EVERYTHING, then SIN does not exist.
If God Predestined/Declared EVERYTHING, then Judgment is Wickedness and God is NOT Just.


If God Predestined/Declared EVERYTHING, then GOD is also the Author of EVIL and UNRIGHTEOUSNESS in the world!


Is your position still that God has Predestined/Declared EVERYTHING?
Now I see where you don't understand yet from my view.
My position does not claim that God has declared EVERYTHING!
My position states that whatever God has not declared cannot exist!
If God has not declared a future, Future cannot exist!
Here is Our confidence that God has not declared Hell for us, therein we know that our destination does not exist yet!
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by Blabbermouth: 3:44pm On Aug 24, 2020
shadeyinka:


1. At what point is one's name written in the book of life?
Before the world was created as a function of Gods foreknowledge based on the LIFETIME salvation/born again experience
Let me Pan out that God did not foreknow salvation, God declared salvation!
Before I give a commentary to your answer, please answer this;
II. When was Christ crucified / when was the Lamb slain?

Phil4:3
show that a believers name is in the book of life even DURING his lifetime (not after he has died)
Rom 8:29-30
show that Gods foreknowledge (past tense) resulted in a predestination (past tense) to be conformed to the image of Christ. These same people are called and justified
Eph1:4
God had chosen us in Christ even before the foundation of the world
Rev17:8
the believers names have been written from the foundation of the world

Finally,
Heb6:4 says that it is impossible for a believer who gets his name blotted out to be renewed again to repentance.
Alright... We will come back to this.

2. Under what conditions and at what point can one's name be blotted out from the book of life?
Impossible! Ones name cannot be written in error (for God sees the end from the beginning).
What happens to those who nail Christ to the cross twice? Paul made mention of this...

Matt24:24
If it was possible the elect would be deceived out of salvation. However, an elect may be deceived concerning doctrinal matters and other things which does not affect his salvation.

Who is he who overcomes in Rev3:5 ?
According to 1John4:4-5 the one who has Christ in him. Anyone who is Born of God has overcome the world!

He who does not overcome is NOT of God
We will come back to this..

3. God sees the future of everything, wow! Can God see his own future? Or does God not have a future?
God is the I AM that I AM.
Mal3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not;...

The Past, Present and Future is the same to God. He is Omnipresent in TIME and He cannot change. Thus God cannot have a future outside being God. Only Gods creatures can have a future.
This is sweet! It's like we are converging soon.
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by linearity: 3:53pm On Aug 24, 2020
shadeyinka:

The highlight is actually whrer your major error is.
Yes, God does declare His will or the future and this is more like Predestination
HOWEVER
Freewill imply that God allows his creatures to independently make decisions and choices. God permits this!
The consequence of Freewill is that a MAN is permitted to make his choice even to go against God's will BUT God will not declare that "this MAN" will go against His will. If God makes such a declaration, then man is bound to go against Gods Will no matter what he does.
This makes this mans sinful life a declaration that God Himself had made and thus this man is just doing what God had declared that he should do.

Should this man go to hell for doing Gods biddings?
Is this judgement a Righteous judgement?


The word Foreseen was not used simultaneously. It was used as a precursor to Predestination.
Those God foreknew, He predestined. What happens to those God did not foreknow?


The context of the statement "God who speaks to things that are yet not, AS THOUGH THEY ARE" is in the context of FAITH, CREATION and PREDESTINATION according to the nature and character of God (For Abraham).

Note that Declaration and Predestination are one and the same
If God Predestined/Declared EVERYTHING, then FREEWILL does NOT exist.
If God Predestined/Declared EVERYTHING, then SIN does not exist.
If God Predestined/Declared EVERYTHING, then Judgment is Wickedness and God is NOT Just.


If God Predestined/Declared EVERYTHING, then GOD is also the Author of EVIL and UNRIGHTEOUSNESS in the world!


Is your position still that God has Predestined/Declared EVERYTHING?

Am somehow drawn to this thread, especially because of the moderate tone....there appear to be a lot to learn and disagree on peacefully...

Taking on your last section above, what do you say about Bible verses that explicitly said, God harden the heart of some people in order to bring about a particular result? In those situations, it appear that the literal reading of the scriptures declares that, those individuals did not have a choice aka 'freewill' on the matter and they have been predestined to act in the sinful way, they did....e.g.

Ex 4:21
The Lord said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders which I have put in your power; but I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go.

Ex. 7:3
But I will harden Pharaoh’s heart that I may multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt.

Ex. 14:8
The Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and he chased after the sons of Israel as the sons of Israel were going out boldly.

Deut. 2:30
But Sihon king of Heshbon was not willing for us to pass through his land; for the Lord your God hardened his spirit and made his heart obstinate, in order to deliver him into your hand, as he is today.

Am almost tempted to say...'poor Pharaoh/Sihon, they appear not to have a choice in the matter'.

Am still very much on the opinion that, despite what we all claimed to have known about God and how He works and his attributes, there are still a lot that we do not know about Him and as such, it will be highly erroneous to think that we can perfectly categorize Him as something or define 100% that he works this way and not that way....He himself said, He is Almighty and can do and undo and not subject to any.
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by Blabbermouth: 4:07pm On Aug 24, 2020
linearity:


Am somehow drawn to this thread, especially because of the moderate tone....there appear to be a lot to learn and disagree on peacefully...

Taking on your last section above, what do you say about Bible verses that explicitly said, God harden the heart of some people in order to bring about a particular result? In those situations, it appear that the literal reading of the scriptures declares that, those individuals did not have a choice aka 'freewill' on the matter and they have been predestined to act in the sinful way, they did....e.g.

Ex 4:21
The Lord said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders which I have put in your power; but I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go.

Ex. 7:3
But I will harden Pharaoh’s heart that I may multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt.

Ex. 14:8
The Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and he chased after the sons of Israel as the sons of Israel were going out boldly.

Deut. 2:30
But Sihon king of Heshbon was not willing for us to pass through his land; for the Lord your God hardened his spirit and made his heart obstinate, in order to deliver him into your hand, as he is today.

Am almost tempted to say...'poor Pharaoh/Sihon, they appear not to have a choice in the matter'.

Am still very much on the opinion that, despite what we all claimed to have known about God and how He works and his attributes, there are still a lot that we do not know about Him and as such, it will be highly erroneous to think that we can perfectly categorize Him as something or define 100% that he works this way and not that way....He himself said, He is Almighty and can do and undo and not subject to any.
Would it surprise you if you see those guys that laughed at Noah in heaven (well, I mean the new Jerusalem)?
Would it surprise you if you see this same Pharaoh in heaven?
Would it surprise you if you saw Sihon in heaven?
Hahahahahahaha Hahahahahahaha... You see, this our God is very wonderful and no one will ever be justified against him
Read 1 Peter 3:18...
Read Matthew 24:11-15
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by shadeyinka(m): 4:09pm On Aug 24, 2020
Blabbermouth:

Now I see where you don't understand yet from my view.
My position does not claim that God has declared EVERYTHING!
My position states that whatever God has not declared cannot exist!
If God has not declared a future, Future cannot exist!
Here is Our confidence that God has not declared Hell for us, therein we know that our destination does not exist yet!
Let's look at this and tell me which one does not represent your views or its implications

1. Whatever God has not declared cannot exist
2. No one has the power to change Gods declarations
3. Every human being has a future
4. Then God had declared the future for every human being
5. It implies that God had declared the future of heaven or hell for every human being
6. Therefore God make some people righteous and some people wicked.
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by Blabbermouth: 4:15pm On Aug 24, 2020
shadeyinka:

Let's look at this and tell me which one does not represent your views or its implications

1. Whatever God has not declared cannot exist
2. No one has the power to change Gods declarations
100%

3. Every human being has a future
There is nothing like "future"... That has been my position and it is consistent with God's word.

4. Then God had declared the future for every human being
5. It implies that God had declared the future of heaven or hell for every human being
4&5 is what happens when you believe a " future" exist. It's not part of my view.

6. Therefore God make some people righteous and some people wicked.
This also is not my view... It's an offshoot of thinking a "future" exist.
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by shadeyinka(m): 4:23pm On Aug 24, 2020
Blabbermouth:

Let me Pan out that God did not foreknow salvation, God declared salvation!
Before I give a commentary to your answer, please answer this;
II. When was Christ crucified / when was the Lamb slain?

Alright... We will come back to this.

What happens to those who nail Christ to the cross twice? Paul made mention of this...

We will come back to this..

This is sweet! It's like we are converging soon.
The highlight is a direct contradiction of the scriptures

Rom 8:29:
"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."


II. When was Christ crucified / when was the Lamb slain?

Christ was slain about 2000 years ago
The Lamb of God was slain from the foundation of the world.

What happens to those who nail Christ to the cross twice? Paul made mention of this...

I believe you've seen my response before.

If such can happens, It is forever impossible for them to be restored again.

But do you notice that you don't answer questions? Yet you churn out yours. That is not how fruitful discussions are made.
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by shadeyinka(m): 4:30pm On Aug 24, 2020
Blabbermouth:

100%

There is nothing like "future".. That has been my position and it is consistent with God's word.

4&5 is what happens when you believe a " future" exist. It's not part of my view.

This also is not my view... It's an offshoot of thinking a "future" exist.
I guess your definition of FUTURE is different from the convectional.

Tomorrow is Future!
Is this true or false?

11pm this night is future!
Is this true or false?

If there is no future, is 11pm or tomorrow coming?

1 Like

Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by Blabbermouth: 4:43pm On Aug 24, 2020
shadeyinka:

I guess your definition of FUTURE is different from the convectional.

Tomorrow is Future!
Is this true or false?
Tomorrow is not future! What will happen tommorow is what you call future.

11pm this night is future!
Is this true or false?
11pm is not future! What will happen by 11pm is what you call future.You still see time from a man's standpoint and that's why you continue to think that there is anything like "future"

If there is no future, is 11pm or tomorrow coming?
You yourself said "time is the interval between events"... It is not a tangible quantity but an abstract one.
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by Blabbermouth: 4:54pm On Aug 24, 2020
shadeyinka:

The highlight is a direct contradiction of the scriptures

Rom 8:29:
"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."
No sir.
Did God foreknow salvation or did he declare salvation?

II. When was Christ crucified / when was the Lamb slain?

Christ was slain about 2000 years ago
The Lamb of God was slain from the foundation of the world.
I am not getting you o. Are you saying Christ is different from the Lamb? Christ is the Lamb of God nah...

What happens to those who nail Christ to the cross twice? Paul made mention of this...

I believe you've seen my response before.

If such can happens, It is forever impossible for them to be restored again.
Yes sir, although close to impossible, such can happen.

But do you notice that you don't answer questions? Yet you churn out yours. That is not how fruitful discussions are made.
Is there any of your question I skipped? I don't think so sir.
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by shadeyinka(m): 4:56pm On Aug 24, 2020
Blabbermouth:

Tomorrow is not future! What will happen tommorow is what you call future.

11pm is not future! What will happen by 11pm is what you call future.You still see time from a man's standpoint and that's why you continue to think that there is anything like "future"

You yourself said "time is the interval between events"... It is not a tangible quantity but an abstract one.

FUTURE
A period of time that is to come:

Examples:
1. Sometimes I worry about the future.
2. I wonder what the future holds for (= what will happen to) you and me.
3. I'm sure at some point in the future I'll want a baby.
4. We need to plan for the future.
5. Do you plan to leave New York in the distant future or the near future?
6. I can see those two getting married in the not too distant future (= quite soon).

© Cambridge University Press 2020

https://www.google.com/amp/s/dictionary.cambridge.org/amp/english/future



I believe you have seen the confusion you manufactured for everyone.

You should first have defined YOUR meaning of FUTURE before asking the question "does God know the future"?

Of a truth, you've wasted everybody's time!

1 Like

Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by Blabbermouth: 4:59pm On Aug 24, 2020
shadeyinka:


FUTURE
A period of time that is to come:

Examples:
1. Sometimes I worry about the future.
2. I wonder what the future holds for (= what will happen to) you and me.
3. I'm sure at some point in the future I'll want a baby.
4. We need to plan for the future.
5. Do you plan to leave New York in the distant future or the near future?
6. I can see those two getting married in the not too distant future (= quite soon).

© Cambridge University Press 2020

https://www.google.com/amp/s/dictionary.cambridge.org/amp/english/future



I believe you have seen the confusion you manufactured for everyone.

You should first have defined YOUR meaning of FUTURE before asking the question "does God know the future"?

Of a truth, you've wasted everybody's time!
We all know we are talking about things that are yet to happen...
Why the sudden change of discussion?
See you painting me like some time-waster.. According to you, "God foreknows What I will do by 11pm" and to you that is what the future means.
Now, why are you now saying that 11pm is the future and not what will happen by 11pm.
I don't like this at all... You just shifted goalpost and threw shades at me.
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by shadeyinka(m): 5:35pm On Aug 24, 2020
Blabbermouth:

We all know we are talking about things that are yet to happen...
Why the sudden change of discussion?
See you painting me like some time-waster.. According to you, "God foreknows What I will do by 11pm" and to you that is what the future means.
Now, why are you now saying that 11pm is the future and not what will happen by 11pm.
I don't like this at all... You just shifted goalpost and threw shades at me.
I am sorry, I didn't mean to be harsh on you. But your usage or definition of future isn't convectional. We are not on the same page at all.

The future is just a YET to be spent time duration. That was why I asked you simple questions about 11pm tonight knowing that it is a time yet to be spent. Is 11pm tonight then the past, present or future?

Your definition of future is definitely different from what everybody know as the future and that is why you make categorical statements like "tomorrow doesn't exist".

Figuratively:
Tomorrow (the future) doesn't exist is different from tomorrow is yet to exist.

Tomorrow (the future) doesn't exist is an affirmation that the sun will not rise and time will somehow freeze just before tomorrow. Tomorrow doesn't exist only in a state of annihilation

Tomorrow is yet to exist is a true statement of NOW without an affirmation that tomorrow wouldn't be.

The future isn't "what I will do" nor "what will happen" but the TIME not yet spent. When that time comes, them we can do things and things can happen.

So, when we ask the question: "Does God know the future?", What we are asking is :
"Does God know about our unspent time and what we'll do with it/what will happen in it?

[color] Can there be HOPE if there is no FUTURE? [/color]

Jer 29:11:
"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end ."

Is the expected end not in future?
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by Blabbermouth: 7:41pm On Aug 24, 2020
shadeyinka:

I am sorry, I didn't mean to be harsh on you. But your usage or definition of future isn't convectional. We are not on the same page at all.

The future is just a YET to be spent time duration. That was why I asked you simple questions about 11pm tonight knowing that it is a time yet to be spent. Is 11pm tonight then the past, present or future?

Your definition of future is definitely different from what everybody know as the future and that is why you make categorical statements like "tomorrow doesn't exist".

Figuratively:
Tomorrow (the future) doesn't exist is different from tomorrow is yet to exist.

Tomorrow (the future) doesn't exist is an affirmation that the sun will not rise and time will somehow freeze just before tomorrow. Tomorrow doesn't exist only in a state of annihilation

Tomorrow is yet to exist is a true statement of NOW without an affirmation that tomorrow wouldn't be.

The future isn't "what I will do" nor "what will happen" but the TIME not yet spent. When that time comes, them we can do things and things can happen.

So, when we ask the question: "Does God know the future?", What we are asking is :
"Does God know about our unspent time and what we'll do with it/what will happen in it?

[color] Can there be HOPE if there is no FUTURE? [/color]

Jer 29:11:
"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end ."

Is the expected end not in future?
Do me a favor sir. Kindly juxtapose my supposed view of what the future is and everyone's (or your own) view of what the future is.
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by Blabbermouth: 7:46pm On Aug 24, 2020
ShadeYinka, please I want you to clarify this:
Is Christ a different person from the lamb of God?
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by MuttleyLaff: 7:53pm On Aug 24, 2020
Blabbermouth:
Tomorrow is not future! What will happen tommorow is what you call future.

11pm is not future! What will happen by 11pm is what you call future. You still see time from a man's standpoint and that's why you continue to think that there is anything like "future"

You yourself said "time is the interval between events"... It is not a tangible quantity but an abstract one.
"14Then God commanded,
“Let lights appear in the sky to separate day from night
and to show the time when days, years, and religious festivals begin;
15they will shine in the sky to give light to the earth”—and it was done.
16So God made the two larger lights, the sun to rule over the day
and the moon to rule over the night; He also made the stars.
17He placed the lights in the sky to shine on the earth,
18to rule over the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness.
And God was pleased with what He saw.
19Evening passed and morning came—that was the fourth day.
"
- Genesis 1:14-19

Oinn, on the 4th day of creation, time was properly instituted and done for man's benefit and standpoint, so for man, to easily observe, aided with the creation of two great lights (i.e. Genesis 1:16)

If time stops, then, it means 11pm will cease to exist, that what by 11pm that was meant to happen, will not have the chance to come about, hence nothing will happen because there's no 11pm for the event to happen on condition of it happening at/by 11pm. Future ceased, because 11pm, proxy time, was terminated. What's operating, since after the obliteration of time, is perpetuity
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by Blabbermouth: 7:57pm On Aug 24, 2020
MuttleyLaff:
"14Then God commanded,
“Let lights appear in the sky to separate day from night
and to show the time when days, years, and religious festivals begin;
15they will shine in the sky to give light to the earth”—and it was done.
16So God made the two larger lights, the sun to rule over the day
and the moon to rule over the night; He also made the stars.
17He placed the lights in the sky to shine on the earth,
18to rule over the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness.
And God was pleased with what He saw.
19Evening passed and morning came—that was the fourth day.
"
- Genesis 1:14-19

Oinn, on the 4th day of creation, time was properly instituted and done for man's benefit and standpoint, so for man, to easily observe, aided with the creation of two great lights (i.e. Genesis 1:16)

If time stops, then, it means 11pm will cease to exist, that what by 11pm that was meant to happen, will not have the chance to come about, hence nothing will happen because there's no 11pm for the event to happen on condition of it happening at/by 11pm. Future ceased, because 11pm, proxy time, was terminated. What's operating, since after the obliteration of time, is perpetuity
You and Shadeyinka are using Man's measurement of time. I am Using God's measurement of time. There is nothing like 11pm to God, everything is NOW!
That I why He says, I am the Beginning And at the same instant, The Ending....
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by Blabbermouth: 7:59pm On Aug 24, 2020
MuttleyLaff, I also want to know where you stand on this;
1. Did God make salvation possible (I.e Did he declare salvation) or was it Just something He knew of by foreknowledge?
2. Is Christ a different person from the lamb of God?
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by Blabbermouth: 8:51pm On Aug 24, 2020
MuttleyLaff:

God knows what you'll do in 5 years, time, 10 years time and even 100 years time, if you get to live that long
Is this not your definition of future? "What you will do in 5 years, 10 years time"....
It's like Shade is now saying Future is 5 years time and now " what I will do in 5 years time".
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by Blabbermouth: 8:54pm On Aug 24, 2020
MuttleyLaff:

What make you think that God doesnt beforehand know what in the next 5 minutes you'll be doing next, huh?
Again, this was everyone's definition of future. Now, someone is trying to say that His definition of future is different from mine.
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by shadeyinka(m): 9:00pm On Aug 24, 2020
Blabbermouth:

Do me a favor sir. Kindly juxtapose my supposed view of what the future is and everyone's (or your own) view of what the future is.
This is the summary of your talk!
Blabbermouth:

There is nothing like "future"... That has been my position and it is consistent with God's word.
My position:
shadeyinka:


The future is just a YET to be spent time duration. That was why I asked you simple questions about 11pm tonight knowing that it is a time yet to be spent. Is 11pm tonight then the past, present or future?

The future isn't "what I will do" nor "what will happen" but the TIME not yet spent. When that time comes, them we can do things and things can happen.

So, when we ask the question: "Does God know the future?", What we are asking is :
"Does God know about our unspent time and what we'll do with it/what will happen in it?

Can there be HOPE if there is no FUTURE?

Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by shadeyinka(m): 9:08pm On Aug 24, 2020
Blabbermouth:

You and Shadeyinka are using Man's measurement of time. I am Using God's measurement of time. There is nothing like 11pm to God, everything is NOW!
That I why He says, I am the Beginning And at the same instant, The Ending....
Haven't we said it time and again that to God, time is irrelevant. God is omnipresent in both TIME and SPACE!

That is why to God

2 Pet 3:8:
"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

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