CHOPbeating:


It is very difficult for those muslims to break out of that blood-sucking bondage because the religion ruled out personal reasoning.

Why should the supposed god guide whom he wills and lead others astray?
That's enough error to even leave the so-called islam.

Anyways, Haters of Islam will always hate.
For you to understand that verse of the Qur'an, you need to believe in a supreme being first.

Do you believe in any God at all?

Xmuslim:
I understand that you are defending your faith and that's why I'm not really engaging you guys. You need a neutral mind and some level of skepticism before you can comprehend the errors in the faith that you hold so dear.

I was once like you, so I understand how difficult it is to even listen to someone that claim that Qur'an is not divine

If all this powerful more knowledgeable western scientists says Qur'an can only come from a super natural being at the time of revelation, why u that u are a no body in times of brain,achievement,knowledge and exposure, in compare to this great scientists says otherwise.

mamaafrik:
I am from SW Nigeria and i have Muslims as cousins,friends abd neighbor and i can tell you that more than 60℅ of the he Alfas i have encountered searches the Bible and more than 40℅ of them possess The Holy Bible,and i have seen around 70℅ Muslims claim that the Holy is adulterated and not Divinely written unlike the Quran(some even say the Quran was written by God himself and droppes down) and 95℅ of Muslims said that they don't believe in Trinity ,Jesus Christ death , resurrection and his Messianic Gospel.
Can a Muslim enlighten me why this is so??
Why You say a book is adulterated but a large chunk of the Alfas and members still read
and possess it(When i mean a muslim i mean a Muslim who knows his Onions)

Let me correct your statistics before responding.

I don't know the actual stastistics of Alfas who own a Bible, but let me assure you that they don't search it for guidance of to know about their Creator. It's mostly used for comparative purposes.

100% of Muslims believe the Bible is adulterated. The proof is in the contradictions and in consistencies in the Bible. Further proof is being uncovered by scholars like Bart Ehrman, Dr Gerald Dirks(May Allah have mercy on his soul) an co. They hav gone trough thousands of biblical manusripts. The bible you carry around today have been edited and re edited multiple times over the centuries. It is still being revised till this very day. No one knows the author of the bible as each book( eg the Gospel 'according' to Mathew) was copied fron dozens of manuscripts written decades apart.

We do not say the Qur'an was 'written by God' as you put it up there. We believe it was sent by God, in piecemeal, to our Noble Prophet(Peace be upon him) through the Holy Spirit(Angel Gabriel). It was revealed over a period of 23 years.

100% of Muslims do not believe in the trinity. Belief in the trinity takes you out of the religion of Islam Q 4: 141 ... Do not speak of a trinity.... God is ONE, with no equals or partners and nothing bares any form of resemblance to HIM.

We don't believe he was crucified for the sins of humanity. Only a sinister god would lynch and kill an innocent person for the sins of others. Can't he simply forgive.

We believe Jesus(peace be upon him) is coming back destroy the antichrist and set the records straight. He is NOT God, he didn't come to die for anybody's sins. He simply came to preach the Gospel to the children of Israel, to tell them to worship one God and none other.

We 100% believe in the Gospel Jesus came to preach, even though we've never seen the original Gospel of Jesus, nor the original Torah of Moses. The messages has been corrupted by the Europeans to suit their theological desires.

Hope this answers your questions. Peace be upon you

fashionhub:

What is the genesis of human?
What makes you a human?
What defines the rights and wrongs of a human?
You mean to say the brain.
Naah that's gross for you to think that way
My expectations were high on you
If your brain were that great
It will defy death.
Your thinking is streamlined with ignorance

your assumption is flawed. It is like the discussion between Ibn taymiya and the other sect (I fgt the name)

Ibn taymiya claimed that revelation should be taken over intellect while the other party prefer the reverse.

If your logic would be valid and non Muslim also reject anything their scripture reject albeit against common sense, do you think inter religion conversion would be possible?

Lastly, if you assume yourself to be alien and got to this planet with the assignment of looking for the right religion, would you depend on your brain or the scriptures of the religions you meet on the planet? Think about this very well.

Xmuslim:
I will argue that you are the one blinded by indoctrination and you have been deceived by Muslim scholars.

I don't have strength to expantiate. If you agree that there is a possibility for Qur'an to contain dangerous teachings, then we can discuss

I agree, can you please expantiate?

Muslim these days are blaming their brain instead of the holes in the Islamic narratives. I'm disillusioned about them.

philo04:
I wish I can convert into Islam...but I can't tine will tell

I PRAY THAT YOU DO.

THE MESSAGE OF ISLAM IS SIMPLE.
IT'S THE TOTAL SUBMISSION TO, AND SINCERE WORSHIP OF THE ONLY ONE GOD, ALLAH.
AND ALLAH IS SIMPLY THE ARABIC NAME FOR GOD.

ISLAM IS STRICTLY OPPOSED TO THE WORSHIP OF ANYONE OR ANYTHING EXCEPT GOD.

IMAGE-WORSHIP AND ALL FORMS OF IDOLATRY ARE FORBIDDEN IN ISLAM.

ALL THOSE SENT BY ALLAH WITH HIS MESSAGE TO MANKIND ARE ONLY HIS PROPHETS WHO DESERVE RESPECT BUT NOT WORSHIP.

JESUS IS A RESPECTED PROPHET IN ISLAM.

CHOPbeating:


Since your quran is rich in Science, how come Africans, especially Nigerians, are not developing their own technology that will add to global progress (e.g. producing their own computer, internet, phones, vehicles, airplanes, ships, toothpick, etc.)?

Shebi we have deep islamic scholars that know the to-and-fro of the book?
NONSENSE

See mumu ,so in the Quran Allah said mix the element to get this ,or connect this wires to get that ,he only talked abt how he created everything in existence with solid scientific proofs ,let's leave that aside
Major advancement today in science and medicine av foundations from Muslim,
Even mathematics ,optics so much more.
Google those people's work
1.Abu sinna
2.imam aljazari ,came up with gearing system which tractors use today.
And ure talking abt Muslim bringing scientific innovations ,y did u use Nigeria as an example ,ar u happy with the way the country is ?. How much has the government give u during this lockdown?

Xmuslim:
check the verse you quoted again.

Also a merciful God should never lead people astray. Even if they close their heart, a merciful God should help them or leave them neutral. Why doing negative to them?

Because we were created to be tested. That's the sole purpose of our creation. In Q 51:56 Allah says: 'And I have not created Jinn and Mankind except to worship me'. The sole purpose of ou creations is to worship Him and abide by His rulings. Other things are secondary. But humans have made the worship of the Almighty secondary. Allah does not even need our worship. If the entire 7 billion people on the globe and countless Jinns decide to start worshipping Him, it'll add nothing to His Greatness.

Before you claim it's 'unfair' to punish the unbelievers, know that the Creator of all that exists has warned us several times in the Qur'an. He is ever ready to accept a sincerere repentance and guide them right. All it takes is your sincerity.

k4kenny:


The answer to your your emboldened question can be found in Q2:26:



He doesn't just misguide without reason. He guides whomever opens up their hearts to guidance would be guided right. He also revealed that had He had the power to make everyone be Mulsims, like He did with the angels. But we've been given the freewill to determine our paths in this world.

You haven't really resonded to those asking you to provide proof that Islam is not the way of life. Make we reason am together. Peace.

Jazakumulahu khairan

Xmuslim:
look before you leap. Leaving it after conversion is punishable by death

But you are still alive. Does that mean you are a liar??

Which muslim can show that "WE" in this verse is NOT more than ONE?
who are the others?



Q.23:12

وَلَقَدْ خَلَقْنَا ٱلْإِنسَٰنَ مِن سُلَٰلَةٍ مِّن طِينٍ

And certainly did

We

create man from an extract of clay.
Q.23:13


كِينٍ

Then

We

placed him as a sperm-drop in a firm lodging.

Q.23:14


We means more than one... so










'

Xmuslim:
you need to be independent thinker before you can understand my view. Qur'an is just one of many religious books. It can be questioned if error is found in it the same way we question the Bible and other scriptures. Snap out of the dillusion that Qur'an is absolute truth and contain no error

By the way I questioned Bible a lot when I was a Muslim. I still do by the way. So Qur'an is not excepted from criticism

"Independent thinker."
This was were you lost it. Then you gave conditions base on your thoughts before you can debate.
You don't believe there are a problems with your conditions, yet I should believe there are problems with my beliefs.

Oga, you lost it completely...

Jayhansdboss:

But you are still alive. Does that mean you are a liar??

because I don't reveal my identity in the public.

But wait, are you telling me that Islam (sunni Islam) does not ask Muslim government to kill apostate?

Xmuslim:
Muslim these days are blaming their brain instead of the holes in the Islamic narratives. I'm disillusioned about them.

You keep talking of these 'holes' without a detailed explanation. Qul ha tuu burhanakum in quntum saadiqeen. Say: produce your evidences if you're telling the truth(2:111)

medexico:


I agree, can you please expantiate?

the concept of eternal hell fire is a dangerous teaching. Why would God punish people eternally just because they don't believe in his supposed right religion.

Mind you, most people die in the religion of their parents because it is the lens via which they examine other religions.

There are many other dangerous teachings but let's start from here

k4kenny:


You keep talking of these 'holes' without a detailed explanation. Qul ha tuu burhanakum in quntum saadiqeen. Say: produce your evidences if you're telling the truth(2:111)

do you know that Qur'an is not perfectly preserved as claimed by Muslim scholars? Let's start here.

Check my thread. Can't begin to type all afresh
https://www.nairaland.com/5951651/quran-preservation-mere-claim

Xmuslim:


If your logic would be valid and non Muslim also reject anything their scripture reject albeit against common sense, do you think inter religion conversion would be possible?

[/b]

Kai now
There was no assumption to begin
Why would you bring a respected Islamic scholar into view just to cover up your cluelessnes?
No proof? Just mere words
Come on. You just spoke of intellects
Intellectual men speakbon facts with proof.
If intellectual capacity were the keyway to righteousness, why would a sage like you be perplexed over the Quran that was revealed to the one who couldn't write.
It defies wisdom right?
That's the point, if guidance were about intellectual capacities, every genius will be an angel
Take that to you tutors, they should content your reasoning for the next century

fashionhub:


Kai now
There was no assumption to begin
Why would you bring a respected Islamic scholar into view just to cover up your cluelessnes?
No proof? Just mere words
Come on. You just spoke of intellects
Intellectual men speakbon facts with proof.
If intellectual capacity were the keyway to righteousness, why would a sage like you be perplexed over the Quran that was revealed to the one who couldn't
It defies wisdom right?
That's the point, if guidance were about intellectual capacities, every genius will be an angel
Take that to you tutors, they should content your reasoning for the next century

Being in a rush to conclusion is not a sign of intellectually sounded mind.

Did I use Ibn taymiya to support my point? No. I actually brought a scenario where his view is similar to yours and concluded that I rejected his and your worldview

Xmuslim:
I don't have time to check others. Those two are those I've read their book when I was a Muslim. Mind you, Maurice rejected hadith in his book. So if he's the one you will hang your faith on, don't cherry pick. You need to reject the sahih Hadiths too.

Sorry brother you were never a Muslim before, may Allah forgive us all

fashionhub:


Kai now
There was no assumption to begin
Why would you bring a respected Islamic scholar into view just to cover up your cluelessnes?
No proof? Just mere words
Come on. You just spoke of intellects
Intellectual men speakbon facts with proof.
If intellectual capacity were the keyway to righteousness, why would a sage like you be perplexed over the Quran that was revealed to the one who couldn't write.
It defies wisdom right?
That's the point, if guidance were about intellectual capacities, every genius will be an angel
Take that to you tutors, they should content your reasoning for the next century

@bolded even enlightened scholars do not make this claim any more. You need to read wide

Xmuslim:
because I don't reveal my identity in the public.

But wait, are you telling me that Islam (sunni Islam) does not ask Muslim government to kill apostate?

You don't reveal your identity in public? lol Because of wetin? . I have tons of relatives who became christians, none of them is hiding. What are you hiding from . Or you think we're holding meetings in the masjids on how to fish out the apostates for slaughter Odiegwu!!!

Any government that decides to kill apostates are doing it on their own will, not Islam. No verse in the Qur'an orders the killing of apostates. Those that were killed in the time of the Prophet were those who waged war and plotted to kill them at the time. I don't know what people today are basing their jurisdiction on. The Qur'an states on apostasy:

2:217-...If any of you revokes your faith and die as an unbeliever, your deeds would amount to nothing in this world and the Hereafter....

Also

2: 256 [There's] no compulsion in religion...

manbello:

Sorry brother you were never a Muslim before, may Allah forgive us all

may Allah Curse be on whoever lie between us.


lol joking. But that's one method quran used in a similar case.

But again, you are daft to conclude without knowing me. You are one of the reasons why people keep advising us to reveal our true identity and stop anonymity. But we shall do that when we migrate away from where you could harm us

k4kenny:


You don't reveal your identity in public? lol Because of wetin? . I have tons of relatives who became christians, none of them is hiding. What are you hiding from . Or you think we're holding meetings in the masjids on how to fish out the apostates for slaughter Odiegwu!!!

Any government that decides to kill apostates are doing it on their own will, not Islam. No verse in the Qur'an orders the killing of apostates. Those that were killed in the time of the Prophet were those who waged war and plotted to kill them at the time. I don't know what people today are basing their jurisdiction on. The Qur'an states on apostasy:



Also

you are obviously not a sunni or sallafi Muslim.

Mind you, sunni Muslims believe that you are a kafir for rejecting sahih Hadiths. What about that

Xmuslim:
@bolded even enlightened scholars do not make this claim any more. You need to read wide

Okay... Let's put it this way
See. I understand you urge to make sense
To make sense out of everything possible, and that's why right now I'm talking to you as I will talk to my younger brother,
Everything does not go in 0s and 1s.
You do not know anything
The more you try to proof that wrong, the more you get nested in the debris of your intellectual jargons

Alright... you want thinking abi, then tell me why the heaven(sky) is with no pillars

Xmuslim:
I will argue that you are the one blinded by indoctrination and you have been deceived by Muslim scholars.

I don't have strength to expantiate. If you agree that there is a possibility for Qur'an to contain dangerous teachings, then we can discuss

You already long gone...
Totally mislead...
Just keep your strength aside, Cos you doesn't Even reach the kind of Disbeleaver that I will waste my precious time arguing about what the noble QUR'AN contain...
I pray to Allah almighty every morning when I wake up to protect and keep me on my faith...

Xmuslim:
look before you leap. Leaving it after conversion is punishable by death

YOU SHOULD BE DEAD NOW IF THAT'S THE CASE.

APOSTASY LAW DOES EXIST IN THE PROPHETIC TRADITIONS (hadith), AS IT DOES IN THE JEWISH LAWS (in the bible)
BUT ITS APPLICATION IS MUCH MORE RIGOROUS THAN ISLAMOPHOBES WOULD HAVE US BELIEVE.

THESE DAYS IT'S NOT APPLIED IN MOST MUSLIM COUNTRIES.

k4kenny:


You keep talking of these 'holes' without a detailed explanation. Qul ha tuu burhanakum in quntum saadiqeen. Say: produce your evidences if you're telling the truth(2:111)

can't type all at a go. But follow my handle if you are interested in finding out the deficiency in Islam.

First, check the flaw in the preservation of the Qur'an. We were lied to that Qur'an was perfectly preserved.
https://www.nairaland.com/5951651/quran-preservation-mere-claim

motayoayinde:

YOU SHOULD BE DEAD NOW IF THAT'S THE CASE.

APOSTASY LAW DOES EXIST IN THE PROPHETIC TRADITIONS (hadith), AS IT DOES IN THE JEWISH LAWS (in the bible)
BUT ITS APPLICATION IS MUCH MORE RIGOROUS THAN ISLAMOPHOBES WOULD HAVE US BELIEVE.

THESE DAYS IT'S NOT APPLIED IN MOST MUSLIM COUNTRIES.

you surprised me. Did read sahih buhari at all?

Do you know how many countries that still apply it including Northern Nigeria

Allahu Akbar, May Allah continue to shower his blessings upon our noble prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam. And all Muslim Ummah.Ameen

Xmuslim:
because I don't reveal my identity in the public.

But wait, are you telling me that Islam (sunni Islam) does not ask Muslim government to kill apostate?

When last was an apostate murdered in your country